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Main
Date: 03 Jan 2005 18:02:04
From: Ken Marcet
Subject: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
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I have been looking for a chain roller solution for my first homebuilt. I
found this page http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/idler/idler.htm and
was wondering how many people use this method and what kind
of results they get. I want something that is fairly easy to fabricate but
at the same time somewhat durable. I don't want to have to change wheels
every 100 miles or less.
Ken
--
It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value.
Arthur C. Clarke
English physicist & science fiction author (1917 - )
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Date: 05 Jan 2005 16:08:17
From:
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
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hhu wrote:
>
> You can see a picture of the bike here- unfortunately I do not have a
> close up of the idler, but you can see part of it...
>
WISIL has instructions on building similar devices:
http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/jackshaft/jackshaft.htm
Jeff
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Date: 05 Jan 2005 18:45:32
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
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jwills@pacifier.com wrote:
> hhu wrote:
>
>>You can see a picture of the bike here- unfortunately I do not have a
>>close up of the idler, but you can see part of it...
>
> WISIL has instructions on building similar devices:
> http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/jackshaft/jackshaft.htm
Note that this page is by Warren Beauchamp. Warren copied the Ross
Festina frame for his Barracuda streamliner chassis. However, he
modified the design in several important ways: indirect steering, a
monostrut instead of the Festina's fork, and a step-up jackshaft. When
the frame was being constructed, it was observed by Shean Bjoralt who
incorporated the monostrut and jackshaft design features into his
lowracer [1].
[End recumbent history lesson]
[1] Pictured in this link: <http://snipurl.com/bsyq >.
--
Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island
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Date: 05 Jan 2005 16:05:10
From:
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
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BikingBill wrote:
> The Scion Xa IS the Echo Wagon.
>
> FYI: I just turned over 107k miles on that 2000 Echo. Nary a
problem,
> 41 mpg all the time.
> Just drove 1400+ miles in Baja. It's decent off road.
And the Toyota Matrix is a Corolla wagon. Our is pretty nice- but we're
putting about half as many miles as Bill is- 30,000 in 32 months.
Jeff
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Date: 05 Jan 2005 10:12:23
From: hhu
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
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My old hypercycle came with two derailleur jockey wheels in a little
metal frame. I hated it from day one- it wasn't smooth and made a lot
of noise. I solved the problem by cutting an old rear wheel hub from
a 10 speed bike right behind the spoke flange on the drive side. I
then drilled it to install mounting bolts to the bike frame (I had
some tabs welded to the frame for the purpose). I opened up the
freewheel, removed the pawls so it would spin freely in both
directions, and took off most of the cogs. Then the long chain became
two chains- one between the crank in front and the freewheel, and the
other between the freewheel and the rear end of the bike.
Totally smooth, totally silent, and virtually infinite life. Added
benefit- the gears on the freewheel are different sizes, so you can do
all sorts of interesting things with the bike gearing. You can use a
relatively small chain ring up front and have the freewheel step it up
to look like a much larger chain ring.
The shifting on the rear derailleur was much improved by having a
shortened chain.
The old wheel I destroyed was free because it was potato-chipped in a
wreck.
You can see a picture of the bike here- unfortunately I do not have a
close up of the idler, but you can see part of it...
http://www.rehorst.com/mrehorst/Milwaukee_Photos/040718-194022.jpg
The rear end of the bike has a Sachs 2 speed hub with a 6 gear cluster
(and drum brake) so no front derailleur was needed.
TD
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Date: 05 Jan 2005 18:50:44
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
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hhu wrote:
> My old hypercycle came with two derailleur jockey wheels in a little
> metal frame. I hated it from day one- it wasn't smooth and made a lot
> of noise. I solved the problem by cutting an old rear wheel hub from
> a 10 speed bike right behind the spoke flange on the drive side. I
> then drilled it to install mounting bolts to the bike frame (I had
> some tabs welded to the frame for the purpose). I opened up the
> freewheel, removed the pawls so it would spin freely in both
> directions, and took off most of the cogs. Then the long chain became
> two chains- one between the crank in front and the freewheel, and the
> other between the freewheel and the rear end of the bike.
>
> Totally smooth, totally silent, and virtually infinite life. Added
> benefit- the gears on the freewheel are different sizes, so you can do
> all sorts of interesting things with the bike gearing. You can use a
> relatively small chain ring up front and have the freewheel step it up
> to look like a much larger chain ring.
>
> The shifting on the rear derailleur was much improved by having a
> shortened chain....
Two chains and modifying the overall gearing by the choice of driven and
drive cog sizes on a jackshaft - how ridiculous! ;)
My bike at <http://snipurl.com/bsyq >.
--
Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island
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Date: 06 Jan 2005 00:13:02
From: hhu
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
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Oh yeah? I did it to my bike 20 years ago!
I actually stole the idea from a bike I saw at the LaJolla HPV rally
one year. They used an entire rear wheel hub and mounted it to the
frame in a pillow block type bracket with a QR skewer and everything.
Here's something I tried on the hypercycle before I made the
"jackshaft": http://www.rehorst.com/mrehorst/k_pace.JPG
This was built using a 46 tooth chain ring, some aluminum plate and
nothing but an electric drill and a coping saw. I used this chain
ring on a 75 mile ride from Tecate to Ensenada one year and it worked
great! I didn't get out of the seat once on the entire ride. The
exagerated "elipse" made pedaling feel like walking up stairs.
TD
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Date: 05 Jan 2005 10:57:07
From: skip
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
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"hhu" <uuhh > wrote in message
news:2k3ot05sdm27rqut80a7arfdf7mbf65oca@4ax.com...
> My old hypercycle came with two derailleur jockey wheels in a little
> metal frame. I hated it from day one- it wasn't smooth and made a lot
> of noise. I solved the problem by cutting an old rear wheel hub from
> a 10 speed bike right behind the spoke flange on the drive side. I
> then drilled it to install mounting bolts to the bike frame (I had
> some tabs welded to the frame for the purpose). I opened up the
> freewheel, removed the pawls so it would spin freely in both
> directions, and took off most of the cogs. Then the long chain became
> two chains- one between the crank in front and the freewheel, and the
> other between the freewheel and the rear end of the bike.
>
> Totally smooth, totally silent, and virtually infinite life. Added
> benefit- the gears on the freewheel are different sizes, so you can do
> all sorts of interesting things with the bike gearing. You can use a
> relatively small chain ring up front and have the freewheel step it up
> to look like a much larger chain ring.
>
> The shifting on the rear derailleur was much improved by having a
> shortened chain.
>
> The old wheel I destroyed was free because it was potato-chipped in a
> wreck.
>
> You can see a picture of the bike here- unfortunately I do not have a
> close up of the idler, but you can see part of it...
>
> http://www.rehorst.com/mrehorst/Milwaukee_Photos/040718-194022.jpg
>
> The rear end of the bike has a Sachs 2 speed hub with a 6 gear cluster
> (and drum brake) so no front derailleur was needed.
>
> TD
Yours may be the nicest Hypercycle ever. Years ago a friend moved and left
his Hypercycle with me to hopefully sell for him. I was surprised how easy
it was to ride. I had people who had never ridden a recumbent, much less a
USS recumbent, do parking lot rides with no problem.
The absence of a front derailleur and the very real drive train issues that
I had no idea how to cure (which you solved in a creative fashion) keep me
from buying it myself.
Recumbent people think Hypercycles were unridable because of handling
problems when actually it was the drive train that caused the problem.
Do you still own the bike?
skip
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Date: 05 Jan 2005 23:46:32
From: hhu
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
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>
>Recumbent people think Hypercycles were unridable because of handling
>problems when actually it was the drive train that caused the problem.
>
>Do you still own the bike?
>
>skip
>
Yes I do. That photo is my neice riding it last summer. It is
currently in my father's garage in Milwaukee. He likes to ride it
around the neighborhood- he's 76 years old!
As for stability- I never had any such problems. I am tall so the
seat is as far back as it can go which may help reduce the load on the
front wheel a bit, and I notice that if I almost take my hands off the
steering at any speed above about 10 mph it starts to wobble, but with
normal hand weight on the steering, it never wobbles at any speed.
That bike has a very short wheelbase and dives into turns and then
right back out. If you aren't used to such rapid steering response, I
suppose it might scare you. It is no problem at all to hold a
straight line on it. If you ride one for a while, it is nothing but
fun.
TD
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Date: 03 Jan 2005 22:39:17
From: BikingBill
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
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The Scion Xa IS the Echo Wagon.
FYI: I just turned over 107k miles on that 2000 Echo. Nary a problem,
41 mpg all the time.
Just drove 1400+ miles in Baja. It's decent off road.
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Date: 03 Jan 2005 22:37:12
From: BikingBill
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
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Here's a link ....
<img
src="http://binaryprophets.clarkworx.com/bb_image_dump/68e57e2bab59242cc3b050a3db84267e_Zox_Tailbox_8-12-2000.JPG" >
I trimmed it down to a Kammback with little speed reduction. The
original was just TOO MUCH in a strong tailwind.
Bill
Tom Sherman wrote:
> $kip wrote:
>
> > ...
> > For practicality and economy I recommend a Toyota Echo or a RANS
Tailwind or
> > Rocket.
>
> I currently have two of the three. The Toyota would be much more
> attractive if it came in a station wagon version long enough to hold
two
> passengers and two Sunsets.
>
> Does anyone else remember the picture of Bill Volk's Toyota Echo with
> his Coroplast tailbox equipped Zox26 in front? The tailbox made the
bike
> longer than the Echo's wheelbase.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island
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Date: 04 Jan 2005 01:04:05
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
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BikingBill wrote:
> Here's a link ....
>
> <img
> src="http://binaryprophets.clarkworx.com/bb_image_dump/68e57e2bab59242cc3b050a3db84267e_Zox_Tailbox_8-12-2000.JPG">
>
> I trimmed it down to a Kammback with little speed reduction. The
> original was just TOO MUCH in a strong tailwind.
Size does matter. ;)
Here I trim down the URL for the picture: <http://snipurl.com/br8s >.
--
Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island
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Date: 03 Jan 2005 19:25:23
From:
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
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Tom Sherman wrote:
> A garage display would be an appropriate use for the E-Type, rather
than
> pouring money into it to try to keep it running.
I think Peter Egan would take issue with that:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=26&article_id=1661
Jeff
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Date: 03 Jan 2005 22:06:56
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
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jwills@pacifier.com wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>
>
>>A garage display would be an appropriate use for the E-Type, rather
>
> than
>
>>pouring money into it to try to keep it running.
>
>
> I think Peter Egan would take issue with that:
> http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=26&article_id=1661
Two of the four E-Types in the story succumbed to mechanical problems.
Peter Egan gets extra credit for being a cyclist, and once writing a
column advocating treating cyclists as legitimate road users, despite
being a cheesehead. [1]
[1] I have lived in Wisconsin for 13 years, so I have earned the right
to make cheesehead jokes. :)
--
Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island
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Date: 04 Jan 2005 08:29:59
From:
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
|
On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 18:02:04 -0500, "Ken cet" <kccet@hotpop.com >
wrote:
>I have been looking for a chain roller solution for my first homebuilt. I
>found this page http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/idler/idler.htm and
>was wondering how many people use this method and what kind
>of results they get. I want something that is fairly easy to fabricate but
>at the same time somewhat durable. I don't want to have to change wheels
>every 100 miles or less.
>
>Ken
Check out this solution: http://geocities.com/throwaway888/
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Date: 03 Jan 2005 23:16:11
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
|
bentbobb@gmail.com wrote:
> Check out this solution: http://geocities.com/throwaway888/
The link to the lower picture on this page is broken:
<http://geocities.com/throwaway888/Bent/lowersprocket.htm >.
--
Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island
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Date: 03 Jan 2005 23:39:54
From: skip
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
|
"Tom Sherman" <tsherman@qconline.com > wrote in message
news:33umv9F42u471U1@individual.net...
> bentbobb@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Check out this solution: http://geocities.com/throwaway888/
>
> The link to the lower picture on this page is broken:
> <http://geocities.com/throwaway888/Bent/lowersprocket.htm>.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island
>
You found an extra page I didn't see. At least I'm seeing a chain idler
now. The upper mechanism looks as if it could be the E Jag piece.
Thanks. Now I will be able to sleep well even though I still don't
understand the drawing.
skip
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Date: 04 Jan 2005 00:04:25
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
|
"skip" <skip@qualitybikes.com > wrote in message
news:sIidnbKpPv6KsUfcRVn-tw@comcast.com...
>
> "Tom Sherman" <tsherman@qconline.com> wrote in message
> news:33umv9F42u471U1@individual.net...
>> bentbobb@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Check out this solution: http://geocities.com/throwaway888/
>>
>> The link to the lower picture on this page is broken:
>> <http://geocities.com/throwaway888/Bent/lowersprocket.htm>.
>>
>> --
>> Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island
>>
>
> You found an extra page I didn't see. At least I'm seeing a chain idler
> now. The upper mechanism looks as if it could be the E Jag piece.
>
> Thanks. Now I will be able to sleep well even though I still don't
> understand the drawing.
I will go to my grave not understanding a million and one things under the
sun. That is the human predicament.
The fact is there are only a few geniuses who are needed to keep our economy
and society going. The rest of us can be idiots and it simply doesn't
matter. In fact, most jobs are designed for idiots to do.
I believe that the mass of men only need a very minimal education. Only an
elite needs a college or university education. The Europeans have it right
in this respect. We Americans are intent on educating everyone to the max,
but that is a waste of our resources. Most men do not need much education.
When I look around me here in good old Minnesota, I am struck by the fact
that is the idiots among us who are the happiest. The most miserable people
in the world are those who are over educated and do not have the kind of
jobs that they think they are entitled to be virtue of their education. I
think you only need to educate about 5% of the population. The rest of us
can be happy idiots.
--
Regards,
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
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Date: 03 Jan 2005 20:18:45
From: skip
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
|
<bentbobb@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:k13lt0hgjnr2afbcsurdvgi30i1pjleo8s@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 18:02:04 -0500, "Ken cet" <kccet@hotpop.com>
> wrote:
>
>>I have been looking for a chain roller solution for my first homebuilt. I
>>found this page http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/idler/idler.htm and
>>was wondering how many people use this method and what kind
>>of results they get. I want something that is fairly easy to fabricate but
>>at the same time somewhat durable. I don't want to have to change wheels
>>every 100 miles or less.
>>
>>Ken
>
> Check out this solution: http://geocities.com/throwaway888/
Bentbobb I don't get the drawing as it relates to chain idlers and old
E-TypeJags, but if you are taking parts off the Jag for a homemade
recumbent bike I will be glad to rescue the E-Type from that fate. I pretty
much consider all Jags, especially E-Types to be works of art. I would be
happy to have one on display in my garage.
I have used the type chain idler shown on the wisil site on my Ryan touring
bike for at least 10 years without even being aware it was there. It was a
in-line skate wheel provided by Dick Ryan and it has worked perfectly (and
quietly) for something around 7,500 miles.
skip
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Date: 03 Jan 2005 20:51:16
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
|
$kip wrote:
> ...
> Bentbobb I don't get the drawing as it relates to chain idlers and old
> E-TypeJags, but if you are taking parts off the Jag for a homemade
> recumbent bike I will be glad to rescue the E-Type from that fate. I pretty
> much consider all Jags, especially E-Types to be works of art. I would be
> happy to have one on display in my garage.
"It's [Jaguar E-Type] the dumb blonde of high-performance cars." -
Stirling Moss
A garage display would be an appropriate use for the E-Type, rather than
pouring money into it to try to keep it running.
--
Tom Sherman - Author: "The Reliable English Sports Car - A Work of Fiction"
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Date: 03 Jan 2005 22:02:09
From: skip
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
|
"Tom Sherman" <tsherman@qconline.com > wrote in message
news:33ueflF437oo1U1@individual.net...
> "It's [Jaguar E-Type] the dumb blonde of high-performance cars." -
> Stirling Moss
>
> A garage display would be an appropriate use for the E-Type, rather than
> pouring money into it to try to keep it running.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Author: "The Reliable English Sports Car - A Work of
> Fiction"
>
>
Aside from the beauty of the E-Type how about explaining bentbobb's drawing
to me. That's what I would really like to understand.
skip
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Date: 03 Jan 2005 21:58:09
From: skip
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
|
"Tom Sherman" <tsherman@qconline.com > wrote in message
news:33ueflF437oo1U1@individual.net...
> $kip wrote:
>
>> ...
>> Bentbobb I don't get the drawing as it relates to chain idlers and old
>> E-TypeJags, but if you are taking parts off the Jag for a homemade
>> recumbent bike I will be glad to rescue the E-Type from that fate. I
>> pretty much consider all Jags, especially E-Types to be works of art. I
>> would be happy to have one on display in my garage.
>
> "It's [Jaguar E-Type] the dumb blonde of high-performance cars." -
> Stirling Moss
>
The E-Type Jag was ravishingly beautiful and devastatingly fast. I've known
at least one dumb blonde that would fit that discription and apparently
Stirling Moss has also.
Performance - 150 mph top speed with 0 - 60 in 7 seconds.
> A garage display would be an appropriate use for the E-Type, rather than
> pouring money into it to try to keep it running.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Author: "The Reliable English Sports Car - A Work of
> Fiction"
>
>
Fine art is never cheap regardless of form or where located.
For practicality and economy I recommend a Toyota Echo or a RANS Tailwind or
Rocket.
$$$kip
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| | | | | |
Date: 04 Jan 2005 05:42:07
From: Mark Leuck
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
|
"skip" <skip@qualitybikes.com > wrote in message
news:5b6dnbT4qb-iiUfcRVn-pA@comcast.com...
>
>
> Fine art is never cheap regardless of form or where located.
>
> For practicality and economy I recommend a Toyota Echo or a RANS Tailwind
or
> Rocket.
>
> $$$kip
The Echo isn't bad as long as you only deal with a max of one passenger,
useless for anything else. Having a bike rack on back might tip the thing up
on its back wheels :)
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Date: 03 Jan 2005 22:38:03
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
|
$kip wrote:
> ...
> For practicality and economy I recommend a Toyota Echo or a RANS Tailwind or
> Rocket.
I currently have two of the three. The Toyota would be much more
attractive if it came in a station wagon version long enough to hold two
passengers and two Sunsets.
Does anyone else remember the picture of Bill Volk's Toyota Echo with
his Coroplast tailbox equipped Zox26 in front? The tailbox made the bike
longer than the Echo's wheelbase.
--
Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 03 Jan 2005 23:02:36
From: skip
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
|
"Tom Sherman" <tsherman@qconline.com > wrote in message
news:33ukntF45fpqcU1@individual.net...
> $kip wrote:
>
>> ...
>> For practicality and economy I recommend a Toyota Echo or a RANS Tailwind
>> or Rocket.
>
> I currently have two of the three. The Toyota would be much more
> attractive if it came in a station wagon version long enough to hold two
> passengers and two Sunsets.
>
> Does anyone else remember the picture of Bill Volk's Toyota Echo with his
> Coroplast tailbox equipped Zox26 in front? The tailbox made the bike
> longer than the Echo's wheelbase.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island
>
I think the rest of the world does have an Echo station wagon or hatchback
available. No idea why they don't offer it in the US.
Do you understand bentbobb's drawing?
skip
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| | | | | | | |
Date: 04 Jan 2005 05:44:27
From: Mark Leuck
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
|
"skip" <skip@qualitybikes.com > wrote in message
news:htKdnf5YQqvHvkfcRVn-uQ@comcast.com...
>
> "Tom Sherman" <tsherman@qconline.com> wrote in message
> news:33ukntF45fpqcU1@individual.net...
> > $kip wrote:
> >
> >> ...
> >> For practicality and economy I recommend a Toyota Echo or a RANS
Tailwind
> >> or Rocket.
> >
> > I currently have two of the three. The Toyota would be much more
> > attractive if it came in a station wagon version long enough to hold two
> > passengers and two Sunsets.
> >
> > Does anyone else remember the picture of Bill Volk's Toyota Echo with
his
> > Coroplast tailbox equipped Zox26 in front? The tailbox made the bike
> > longer than the Echo's wheelbase.
> >
> > --
> > Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island
> >
>
> I think the rest of the world does have an Echo station wagon or hatchback
> available. No idea why they don't offer it in the US.
>
> skip
Easy, the US no longer likes station wagons with the exception of the
semi-station wagon Dodge Magnum, and as someone who had to ride in the back
of one during much of my youth good riddance
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| | | | | | | |
Date: 03 Jan 2005 23:18:40
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
|
$kip wrote:
> "Tom Sherman" <tsherman@qconline.com> wrote in message
> news:33ukntF45fpqcU1@individual.net...
>
>>$kip wrote:
>>
>>
>>>...
>>>For practicality and economy I recommend a Toyota Echo or a RANS Tailwind
>>>or Rocket.
>>
>>I currently have two of the three. The Toyota would be much more
>>attractive if it came in a station wagon version long enough to hold two
>>passengers and two Sunsets.
>>
>>Does anyone else remember the picture of Bill Volk's Toyota Echo with his
>>Coroplast tailbox equipped Zox26 in front? The tailbox made the bike
>>longer than the Echo's wheelbase.
>>
>>--
>>Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island
>>
>
>
> I think the rest of the world does have an Echo station wagon or hatchback
> available. No idea why they don't offer it in the US....
Too many people in the US see hatchbacks as "down ket", so they do
not sell well. Image over function.
> Do you understand bentbobb's drawing?
An ancestor to the Schlumpf Mountain Drive?
--
Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island
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| |
Date: 03 Jan 2005 15:53:49
From:
Subject: Re: Wisil page "making an idler wheel"
|
Ken cet wrote:
> I have been looking for a chain roller solution for my first
homebuilt. I
> found this page http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/idler/idler.htm
and
> was wondering how many people use this method and what kind
> of results they get. I want something that is fairly easy to
fabricate but
> at the same time somewhat durable. I don't want to have to change
wheels
> every 100 miles or less.
>
> Ken
>
Skate-wheel rollers have been around a long time and are generally
somewhat satisfactory. Since skate wheels come in various hardnesses
(durometers), it's tough to make any hard-and-fast estimates of
durability. I used to replace my Lightning power-side idler once or
twice a year- and it's made of tougher stuff than a skate wheel.
If I were building my own, I'd use a scooter wheel as a start, since
its larger diameter should be more durable. If you want something that
should last forever, take a look at the idlers from Terracycle:
http://www.terracycle.com/parts.htm
Jeff
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