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Main
Date: 16 Mar 2007 18:56:15
From: Erik Sandblom
Subject: one-handed trike brakes
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Hello
Seriously considering a trike, maybe ICE but probably Scorpion.
I see you can brake the front two wheels either together with one hand, or
separately with two hands. Would it be correct to say the following:
With individual control you can have more fun in turns, by braking harder
on the inside wheel;
whereas with linked one-handed brakes, you are more secure because you
will always get the same amount of braking on both wheels.
Which is best? It's my first recumbent, and the purpose of buying one is
because it's fun.
Thanks for any advice.
Erik Sandblom
--
Oil is for sissies
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Date: 20 Mar 2007 17:33:51
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
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On 16, 12:56 pm, "Erik Sandblom" <eriksandb...@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> Hello
>
> Seriously considering a trike, maybe ICE but probably Scorpion.
>
> I see you can brake the front two wheels either together with one hand, or
> separately with two hands. Would it be correct to say the following:
>
> With individual control you can have more fun in turns, by braking harder
> on the inside wheel;
>
> whereas with linked one-handed brakes, you are more secure because you
> will always get the same amount of braking on both wheels.
>
> Which is best? It's my first recumbent, and the purpose of buying one is
> because it's fun.
>
> Thanks for any advice.
Furthermore, there is the option of "crossed" brakes and levers -
right handlebar/left wheel and left handlebar/right wheel, or the much
less common same side brakes and levers.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 16 Mar 2007 14:05:50
From:
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
|
The faster you go the worse brake steer becomes. Last fall I was
riding down a hill at Itasca State Park and at the bottom of the hill
is a 90 degree turn. I was going too fast (about 40) and tried to
slow down. Individual trike brakes must be applied evenly for
straightline braking. I let my two wheel instincts take over and
didn't think about trike braking skills. The trike went all over the
place as I braked. Was worried I was going to either go off the road,
flip the trike, or miss the turn. I did finally get the trike under
control and everything was OK, but it scared the hell out of me.
Individual brakes are not for high speeds. I want my brakes to work
under all conditions and don't want to have to think about how I have
to brake a trike.
My wife Terry's trike has one-handed braking. After we came back from
Itasca I took Terry's trike up to 35 mph at a hill near here and hit
the brakes. The trike came to a nice straight stop. I'll be putting
a double brake handle on my trike this spring.
Enjoy,
Perry B
On 16, 10:56 am, "Erik Sandblom" <eriksandb...@yahoo.co.uk >
wrote:
> Hello
>
> Seriously considering a trike, maybe ICE but probably Scorpion.
>
> I see you can brake the front two wheels either together with one hand, or
> separately with two hands. Would it be correct to say the following:
>
> With individual control you can have more fun in turns, by braking harder
> on the inside wheel;
>
> whereas with linked one-handed brakes, you are more secure because you
> will always get the same amount of braking on both wheels.
>
> Which is best? It's my first recumbent, and the purpose of buying one is
> because it's fun.
>
> Thanks for any advice.
>
> Erik Sandblom
>
> --
> Oil is for sissies
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Date: 16 Mar 2007 17:06:31
From: gotbent
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
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<perryb67@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1174079150.782283.39220@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> The faster you go the worse brake steer becomes. Last fall I was
> riding down a hill at Itasca State Park and at the bottom of the hill
> is a 90 degree turn. I was going too fast (about 40) and tried to
> slow down. Individual trike brakes must be applied evenly for
> straightline braking. I let my two wheel instincts take over and
> didn't think about trike braking skills. The trike went all over the
> place as I braked. Was worried I was going to either go off the road,
> flip the trike, or miss the turn. I did finally get the trike under
> control and everything was OK, but it scared the hell out of me.
> Individual brakes are not for high speeds. I want my brakes to work
> under all conditions and don't want to have to think about how I have
> to brake a trike.
>
> My wife Terry's trike has one-handed braking. After we came back from
> Itasca I took Terry's trike up to 35 mph at a hill near here and hit
> the brakes. The trike came to a nice straight stop. I'll be putting
> a double brake handle on my trike this spring.
>
> Enjoy,
>
> Perry B
>
snip
You haven't mentioned what kind of trike you were riding and what kind of
brakes it has. I suppose high speed handling skills are skills that have to
be practiced. I can imagine the first time something like that happens it
can be quite unnerving.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 18 Mar 2007 07:48:58
From: Ian George
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
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gotbent wrote:
> <perryb67@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1174079150.782283.39220@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>> My wife Terry's trike has one-handed braking. After we came back from
>> Itasca I took Terry's trike up to 35 mph at a hill near here and hit
>> the brakes. The trike came to a nice straight stop. I'll be putting
>> a double brake handle on my trike this spring.
>>
>> Enjoy,
>>
>> Perry B
>>
> snip
>
> You haven't mentioned what kind of trike you were riding and what
> kind of brakes it has. I suppose high speed handling skills are
> skills that have to be practiced. I can imagine the first time
> something like that happens it can be quite unnerving.
Yup. I don't find much brake steer with my Grenspeed, although at lower
speeds, the ability to pull one brake appears to help short turning in tight
spots. At speed, braking earlier rather than later is a good way to avoid
excessive excitement into sharper turns.
In my experience there is a bit of technique adjustment required between
trikes, between drums and discs and depending on the surface being ridden,
let alone between bikes and trikes. Can't see the OP's Utopian ideal of
never having to think about what they're riding panning out too successfully
:)
'n
.
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Date: 18 Mar 2007 11:17:17
From:
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
|
On Sun, 18 2007 07:48:58 GMT, "Ian George" <ianwho@yugswen.com >
wrote:
>gotbent wrote:
>> <perryb67@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1174079150.782283.39220@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
>>> My wife Terry's trike has one-handed braking. After we came back from
>>> Itasca I took Terry's trike up to 35 mph at a hill near here and hit
>>> the brakes. The trike came to a nice straight stop. I'll be putting
>>> a double brake handle on my trike this spring.
>>>
>>> Enjoy,
>>>
>>> Perry B
>>>
>> snip
>>
>> You haven't mentioned what kind of trike you were riding and what
>> kind of brakes it has. I suppose high speed handling skills are
>> skills that have to be practiced. I can imagine the first time
>> something like that happens it can be quite unnerving.
>
>Yup. I don't find much brake steer with my Grenspeed, although at lower
>speeds, the ability to pull one brake appears to help short turning in tight
>spots. At speed, braking earlier rather than later is a good way to avoid
>excessive excitement into sharper turns.
>
>In my experience there is a bit of technique adjustment required between
>trikes, between drums and discs and depending on the surface being ridden,
>let alone between bikes and trikes. Can't see the OP's Utopian ideal of
>never having to think about what they're riding panning out too successfully
>:)
>
I've been making a mechanism to switch my trike from individual brakes
to balanced braking. (It's a tadpole, the death-trap Raptor, modified
so it isn't a death-trap anymore.)
Now I am considering changing the mechanism so as to allow switching
between individual and balanced braking; this will take a bit more
designing - does anyone know if there is a extant version of such a
design?
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Date: 16 Mar 2007 21:10:08
From: Ian Smith
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
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On 16 2007, perryb67@yahoo.com <perryb67@yahoo.com > wrote:
> The faster you go the worse brake steer becomes.
My two-handed trice brakes happily from above 40mph without drama.
I'm looking for a hill to break 50 on, but I haven't found one yet.
regards, Ian SMith
--
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Date: 16 Mar 2007 21:04:00
From: Ian Smith
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
|
On Fri, 16 2007, Erik Sandblom <eriksandblom@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> I see you can brake the front two wheels either together with one
> hand, or separately with two hands. Would it be correct to say the
> following:
>
> With individual control you can have more fun in turns, by braking
> harder on the inside wheel;
Not really. If you're cornering hard enough to count as fun, there's
little weight on the inside wheel. If you brake significantly it will
simply lock and give you next-to-no retardation. This is especially
so on loose surfaces, which is when it _really_ starts counting as
fun.
> whereas with linked one-handed brakes, you are more secure because
> you will always get the same amount of braking on both wheels.
Unless the hand with the lever is signalling, in which case you get no
braking at all.
In principle, you should be able to do a hydraulic system where both
levers and both brakes go to a union, so pulling on either lever will
brake both wheels. I've never seen it done, however.
> Which is best? It's my first recumbent, and the purpose of buying
> one is because it's fun.
One-lever-one-wheel.
I know this because I've never tried the alternative.
More seriously:
ICE trikes don't brake-steer. My XL-NT doesn't, and ICE say none of
them do. There is an affect on something - if I'm on a good surface
and brake one wheel hard, I can feel the trike twist slightly towards
the braked wheel, but the trike doesn't turn towards it. I don't
know why this is, but I find it quite noticeable.
If trices don't do it, I imagine other trikes can not do it too, but I
haven't tried any other similarly sporty trike.
I like having 50% braking capability on either hand - I can brake
enough for all but drastic stops one handed either hand, which is
reassuring.
I like having two completely independent systems, in case a cable
snaps or some such.
With respect to braking and cornering, if anything, when trying hard I
brake on the outside wheel, because that's the one that's got the
weight on it and therefore got the traction and therefore worth
braking. If one lever applied both brakes, when you're having fun,
you'd be locking the inside wheel, which is uncouth. It probably
increases tyre wear to no gain (unless you're having enough fun that
it's not on the ground at all - though even then it will skid when you
put it back on the tarmac).
Using one-lever-one-wheel means you're closer to using standard bike
components, which makes upgrades and maintenance potentially more
straightforward.
regards, Ian SMith
--
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Date: 16 Mar 2007 22:45:20
From: Erik Sandblom
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
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Den 2007-03-16 22:04:00 skrev Ian Smith <ian@astounding.org.uk >:
> If one lever applied both brakes, when you're having fun,
> you'd be locking the inside wheel, which is uncouth. It probably
> increases tyre wear to no gain (unless you're having enough fun that
> it's not on the ground at all - though even then it will skid when you
> put it back on the tarmac).
The Scorpion I tried had disc brakes and one-lever-both-brakes. It was
snowy and slushy, and the wheels did some interesting things when braking.
The wheel on tarmac/asphalt turned normally, and the wheel in the slush
also turned -- slower! I thought that was kind of cool. Just looking at
the wheels and thinking "hm, the wheels are turning at different speeds,
yet I am going straight".
Thanks for everyone's interesting replies.
I seem to recall the reviews of the ICE and Scorpion mentioning "not much
brake steer". Perhaps the newer tadpole trikes are generally like this.
Erik Sandblom
--
Oil is for sissies
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Date: 17 Mar 2007 16:02:46
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
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Erik Sandblom wrote:
> I seem to recall the reviews of the ICE and Scorpion mentioning "not
> much brake steer". Perhaps the newer tadpole trikes are generally like
> this.
I think so: people know how to do it and it's generally held to be
a Good Thing.
If you want pronounced break-steering for genuine added fun try a
Hase Kettweisel delta: the rider is pretty much over the rear axle
so you can do astonishingly effective handbreak turns.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
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Date: 20 Mar 2007 06:22:17
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
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"Peter Clinch" <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk > wrote in message
news:562hopF26bgloU1@mid.individual.net...
> Erik Sandblom wrote:
>
>> I seem to recall the reviews of the ICE and Scorpion mentioning "not much
>> brake steer". Perhaps the newer tadpole trikes are generally like this.
>
> I think so: people know how to do it and it's generally held to be a Good
> Thing.
>
> If you want pronounced break-steering [brake-steering] for genuine added
> fun try a Hase Kettweisel delta: the rider is pretty much over the rear
> axle so you can do astonishingly effective handbreak [handbrake] turns.
The Hase Kettweisel brake steer never puts you in danger of losing your life
like tadpole brake steer does.
The very coolest thing about the KW is the very small complete turns you can
make on it. It practically pivots on its rear wheel.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 16 Mar 2007 19:31:15
From: Tony B
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
|
Erik Sandblom wrote:
> Hello
>
> Seriously considering a trike, maybe ICE but probably Scorpion.
George Longstaff, quick before they stop doing them all together. At the
very least, buy the frame now, ready for building up later...
hth,
Tony B
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Date: 16 Mar 2007 17:05:08
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
|
On Fri, 16 2007 19:31:15 +0000, Tony B
<usenetguff@thebramahs.plus.com > wrote:
>George Longstaff, quick before they stop doing them all together. At the
>very least, buy the frame now, ready for building up later...
Totaly different animal. Looks like a Carleton that I took over a curb
in a parking lot, oh, a long while ago.
Just curious - if you ride one, can you easily move from a bike to an
upright trike, or do you pretty much ride the trike all the time? Not
that I am about to repeat my experience from about 30 years ago by
buying one, or provide a crowd with the same level of amusement, at
least not on purpose.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
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Date: 16 Mar 2007 22:33:08
From: John B
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
|
"Curtis L. Russell" wrote:
>
> Just curious - if you ride one, can you easily move from a bike to an
> upright trike, or do you pretty much ride the trike all the time? Not
> that I am about to repeat my experience from about 30 years ago by
> buying one, or provide a crowd with the same level of amusement, at
> least not on purpose.
I regularly switch from bike to upright trike (and tandem trike) with little
difficulty.
I suppose its just gettingused to the very different handling, and being
aware of it.
There are a lot of other cyclists I know who have tried to ride the trike
and have just ended up going around in circles as they fail to understand
the weight-shifting requirements, and the need to counteract slopes,
especially camber.
Earlier this week I had the pleasure to teach a lady to ride a trike for the
first time. However it was easy as she has never ridden a bike.
John B
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Date: 16 Mar 2007 22:22:30
From: Tony B
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
|
Curtis L. Russell wrote:
> Just curious - if you ride one, can you easily move from a bike to an
> upright trike, or do you pretty much ride the trike all the time?
I dunno, I've never tried one. The Longstaff is just a dream for me, I
ain't got the £££... but they are well st, I can tell you. Bugger
them lying down things...
Sorry. I was a little off topic :-)
hth,
Tony B
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Date: 16 Mar 2007 18:58:54
From: wafflycat
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
|
On my ICE T there are individual brake controls. Handling hot adversely
affected. No noticeable pull to one side. Honest.
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Date: 16 Mar 2007 13:13:08
From: gotbent
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
|
"Erik Sandblom" <eriksandblom@yahoo.co.uk > wrote in message
news:op.tpamr1of5vlg8y@erik-sandbloms-mac-mini.local...
> Hello
>
> Seriously considering a trike, maybe ICE but probably Scorpion.
>
> I see you can brake the front two wheels either together with one hand, or
> separately with two hands. Would it be correct to say the following:
>
> With individual control you can have more fun in turns, by braking harder
> on the inside wheel;
This is not necessarily the case. I know that Trice and I think that HP have
pretty much designed brake steer out of the system. I think that Catrike
has also done the same. I don't know if this is and engineering/design
objective to the ket or an answer to product liability issues. In any
case you can turn quite well by turning the bars. I also think that joy
stick steered trikes like Windcheeta use a single brake because of the way
the steering yoke is configured. Also one handed/dual brakes would be useful
with certain physical disabilities.
The issue of brake steer could also be a problem with using a single brake
while decelerating and using one hand to give a turn signal. Without
learning to countersteer, the sudden and probably unexpected swerve could be
deadly.
>
> whereas with linked one-handed brakes, you are more secure because you
> will always get the same amount of braking on both wheels.
>
> Which is best? It's my first recumbent, and the purpose of buying one is
> because it's fun.
I have owned three two wheeled recumbents (currently I have two in the
garage) and they are/were a lot of fun to ride. I just bought a tricycle but
have limited riding time due to continued frigid weather, yet the few miles
have been extremely enjoyable. Probably moreso because I haven't added a
speedometer and don't know how slowly I am going, and yet I don't care.
>
> Thanks for any advice.
>
> Erik Sandblom
>
> --
> Oil is for sissies
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 16 Mar 2007 18:26:42
From: Alistair Gunn
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
|
In uk.rec.cycling Erik Sandblom twisted the electrons to say:
> With individual control you can have more fun in turns, by braking harder
> on the inside wheel;
On my Trice QNT I wouldn't say having individual control really affects
things. If you pull one brake on sharply enough the trike turns slightly
towards that side, but not enough to really affect things (IMHO).
> whereas with linked one-handed brakes, you are more secure because you
> will always get the same amount of braking on both wheels.
If you have both brakes attached to one lever then what happens if you
want(/need) to brake whilst signalling with that hand?
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...
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Date: 16 Mar 2007 13:46:09
From: gotbent
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
|
"Alistair Gunn" <palmersperry@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:etenh2$3hd$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net...
> In uk.rec.cycling Erik Sandblom twisted the electrons to say:
>> With individual control you can have more fun in turns, by braking harder
>> on the inside wheel;
>
> On my Trice QNT I wouldn't say having individual control really affects
> things. If you pull one brake on sharply enough the trike turns slightly
> towards that side, but not enough to really affect things (IMHO).
>
>> whereas with linked one-handed brakes, you are more secure because you
>> will always get the same amount of braking on both wheels.
>
> If you have both brakes attached to one lever then what happens if you
> want(/need) to brake whilst signalling with that hand?
> --
> These opinions might not even be mine ...
> Let alone connected with my employer ...
I suppose if you decided to get a one lever does both brakes, you should
consider which hand is typically used to give signals...left hand signals in
the US and right hand signals in the UK [1]. Although some clever folks have
added push button activated battery powered turn signals to their hpvs.
1. this is a guess as I never studied British traffic laws and am just
extrapolating what we do in the states where we drive on the right hand side
of the street.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 16 Mar 2007 19:56:37
From: Alistair Gunn
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
|
In uk.rec.cycling gotbent twisted the electrons to say:
> 1. this is a guess as I never studied British traffic laws and am just
> extrapolating what we do in the states where we drive on the right hand side
> of the street.
Sort of, though don't some US states have all the signalling done with
the same hand (ie: held out to turn that way, help up to turn the other)?
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...
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Date: 16 Mar 2007 22:17:50
From: Zebee Johnstone
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
|
In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on 16 2007 19:56:37 GMT
Alistair Gunn <palmersperry@yahoo.com > wrote:
> In uk.rec.cycling gotbent twisted the electrons to say:
>> 1. this is a guess as I never studied British traffic laws and am just
>> extrapolating what we do in the states where we drive on the right hand side
>> of the street.
>
> Sort of, though don't some US states have all the signalling done with
> the same hand (ie: held out to turn that way, help up to turn the other)?
When I was taught handsignals in Australia as a kid it was all done
with one hand because the same handsignals were still taught to be
used in cars.
We drive on the left, so right arm straight out for right turn, bent
into a right angle at elbow with hand pointing up for left turn and
patting the air for slowing down although some used the same as left
turn for that.
Haven't seen anyone use the "turn left" one for many years, all use
left hand straight out.
Only time I've seen the 'slowing down' one is when one motorcyclist
warns another of cops ahead.
Zebee
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Date: 19 Mar 2007 19:51:14
From: John Kimmel
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
|
Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on 16 2007 19:56:37 GMT
> Alistair Gunn <palmersperry@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>In uk.rec.cycling gotbent twisted the electrons to say:
>>
>>>1. this is a guess as I never studied British traffic laws and am just
>>>extrapolating what we do in the states where we drive on the right hand side
>>>of the street.
>
The only hand signal generally recognized in America is really more of a
finger signal.
--
John Kimmel
gNuOy_SnPoAiMr@spiretech.com
I think it will be quiet around here now. So long.
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Date: 19 Mar 2007 22:36:09
From: gotbent
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
|
"John Kimmel" <guyinthetrenchcoat@whogetsthejobdone.net > wrote in message
news:etni71$hd2$1@aioe.org...
> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>> In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on 16 2007 19:56:37 GMT
>> Alistair Gunn <palmersperry@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>In uk.rec.cycling gotbent twisted the electrons to say:
>>>
>>>>1. this is a guess as I never studied British traffic laws and am just
>>>>extrapolating what we do in the states where we drive on the right hand
>>>>side of the street.
>>
> The only hand signal generally recognized in America is really more of a
> finger signal.
>
> --
> John Kimmel
> gNuOy_SnPoAiMr@spiretech.com
>
> I think it will be quiet around here now. So long.
LOL. What's really crazy is when I stick my hand out or up to signal,
pedestrians wave to me like they think I'm waving at them. Go figure. So far
though the cages have been giving the trike more than the usual amount of
room. Maybe they think it's so weird that if they get too close, they might
catch whatever it is that I have.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 23 Mar 2007 22:40:32
From: John Kimmel
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
|
gotbent wrote:
> LOL. What's really crazy is when I stick my hand out or up to signal,
> pedestrians wave to me like they think I'm waving at them. Go figure. So far
> though the cages have been giving the trike more than the usual amount of
> room. Maybe they think it's so weird that if they get too close, they might
> catch whatever it is that I have.
>
>
>
I went for my first trike ride Tuesday night, two blocks on a 13
THOUSAND dollar Go-One. I didn't care for it, visibility was horrible
thru a scratchy plexiglass bubble, and the canopy bow was right in my
sight line. It also seemed too squirrely. About the same reaction I
had when I first rode my Vision R-40. The owner said he'd had it up to
70 mph (going downhill). It has a single brake lever and drum brakes.
It also has cutouts in the floor for Fred Flintstone emergency brakes.
--
John Kimmel
gNuOy_SnPoAiMr@spiretech.com
I think it will be quiet around here now. So long.
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Date: 27 Mar 2007 09:34:15
From: Dave Larrington
Subject: Re: one-handed trike brakes
|
In news:eu2dkh$7p2$1@aioe.org,
John Kimmel <guyinthetrenchcoat@whogetsthejobdone.net > tweaked the
Babbage-Engine to tell us:
> It also has cutouts in the floor for Fred Flintstone
> emergency brakes.
Or for going backwards...
--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk >
Murdock's Gardening Law: If it's green, the paving isn't
finished yet.
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|
