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Main
Date: 07 Jul 2007 09:42:03
From: bfd
Subject: 650B update - Its coming!
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The 650B movement is moving! According to Reknown Framebuilder Kirk
Pacenti, there is an interest by *8 or 9 BIG mfrs* to fill in the 26"
and 29er size tires with the new 27.5 inch size (that's reads: 650B to
many). Check it out:
"I received 12 pairs of sample tires from
Panaracer last week. Many of these tires are
already in the hands of some very influential
companies, who are interested in pursuing this
wheel size to compliment the existing 26 and
29 inch standards. There may be as many as 8-9
companies showing 27.5" wheeled MTB's at
Interbike this year.
As for a ride report, look for one in Dirt Rag
in August or September. They have been testing
my NAHBS show bike and will issue a full
report soon.
I will be doing several press-releases between
now and Interbike, as well as "show dailies"
during the event to promote the tires,
builders using them and the booths in which
the bikes are displayed. You all will be
hearing much more about this wheel size soon.
Any builders interested in the tire specs and
drawing please contact me off-list. I will be
happy to answer any questions you might have
about tires, rims, forks and other components.
Best regards,
Kirk Pacenti"
You see that?! "MANY OF THESE TIRES ARE ALREADY IN THE HANDS OF SOME
VERY INFLUENTIAL COMPANIES!!!!" Further, he states "THERE MAY BE AS
MANY AS 8-9 COMPANIES SHOWING 27.5" MTBs AT INTERBIKE THIS YEAR!!!"
650B or its new name 27.5" is the new thing, are you in? If not, you
better get with it!!!!!
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Date: 09 Jul 2007 10:26:03
From: bfd
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
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On Jul 8, 8:00 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jul 7, 11:44 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 7, 11:42 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > The 650B movement is moving! According to Reknown Framebuilder Kirk
> > > Pacenti, there is an interest by *8 or 9 BIG mfrs* to fill in the 26"
> > > and 29er size tires with the new 27.5 inch size (that's reads: 650B to
> > > many). Check it out:
>
> > > "I received 12 pairs of sample tires from
> > > Panaracer last week. Many of these tires are
> > > already in the hands of some very influential
> > > companies, who are interested in pursuing this
> > > wheel size to compliment the existing 26 and
> > > 29 inch standards. There may be as many as 8-9
> > > companies showing 27.5" wheeled MTB's at
> > > Interbike this year.
>
> > > As for a ride report, look for one in Dirt Rag
> > > in August or September. They have been testing
> > > my NAHBS show bike and will issue a full
> > > report soon.
>
> > > I will be doing several press-releases between
> > > now and Interbike, as well as "show dailies"
> > > during the event to promote the tires,
> > > builders using them and the booths in which
> > > the bikes are displayed. You all will be
> > > hearing much more about this wheel size soon.
>
> > > Any builders interested in the tire specs and
> > > drawing please contact me off-list. I will be
> > > happy to answer any questions you might have
> > > about tires, rims, forks and other components.
>
> > > Best regards,
>
> > > Kirk Pacenti"
>
> > > You see that?! "MANY OF THESE TIRES ARE ALREADY IN THE HANDS OF SOME
> > > VERY INFLUENTIAL COMPANIES!!!!" Further, he states "THERE MAY BE AS
> > > MANY AS 8-9 COMPANIES SHOWING 27.5" MTBs AT INTERBIKE THIS YEAR!!!"
>
> > > 650B or its new name 27.5" is the new thing, are you in? If not, you
> > > better get with it!!!!!
>
> > So, when are you gonna convert your Calfee to 650B?-
>
> No answer, Mr. Fong? Shall we conclude that there is a degree of
> hypocrisy in your "enthusiasm" for 650B? ;-)- Hide quoted text -
>
Hey Richard,
Mellow out dude. No, I'm not going to convert my calfee to 650B. I've
stated before, I am perfectly happy with my Avocet Fasgrip 700x25
tires pumped up to about 90psi. The bike is very comfortable without
any perceived loss of performance. Of course, we all know that carbon
has nothing to do with making a bike comfy, so I giving the tires the
credit!
However, 650B might be the way to go for those who want to convert
their old bikes to use with wider tires.
Further, if those 8-9 INFLUENTIAL companies adopt the 27.5/650B/
Johncougarmellancampyoungsmithcallitwhatyowant tires, then it will be
BIG!
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Date: 09 Jul 2007 09:18:32
From: russellseaton1@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 7, 10:41 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net > wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 13:56:01 -0500, Tim McNamara wrote:
> > In article <1183826523.613698.15...@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
> > bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> You see that?! "MANY OF THESE TIRES ARE ALREADY IN THE HANDS OF SOME
> >> VERY INFLUENTIAL COMPANIES!!!!" Further, he states "THERE MAY BE AS
> >> MANY AS 8-9 COMPANIES SHOWING 27.5" MTBs AT INTERBIKE THIS YEAR!!!"
>
> > Whoa, there, big fella. Let's not count chickens while they are still
> > in the shell. "Many" tires and "some" companies still adds up to
> > vaporware. I'll believe it when I see Trek's 650B offering.
>
> Well, I'm a hype victim--incubating. My 650B rims are on order at the LBS.
>
> In the interest of science, I have decided to have a set of 650B wheels
> built up for an old Raleigh frame that's been hanging in the shed. It
> needed new wheels anyway, and the prospect of being able to ride the frame
> again (it was my first "nice" bike) but running a more sensible tire width
> is intriguing.
I believe your use of 650B wheels is what many people find quite
rational. Putting an older road bike back into service in a different
manner, wider tires than you could fit using 700C. And you already
have a narrower tire 700C bike to ride that the older Raleigh with
650B will complement. Everyone would praise this usage of 650B
wheels.
What many people find irrational about 650B wheels is this desire/push/
drive to build brand new bikes on this uncommon wheel size. If you
are gonig to buy a new bike, why even have the choice of 650B? You
can easily buy a brand new bike with 700C wheels that provides all of
the supposed advantages of 650B but is the standard tire size and is
available anywhere in the US or Europe. Many bike manufacturers offer
bikes from the factory that take wide 700C tires and/or fenders. No
reason to buy a 650B bike when you can buy a 700C bike that takes wide
tires and/or fenders. There is no logical reason to buy a new 650B
bike when you can get the same thing in a new 700C bike.
>
> If this experiment doesn't work out, well, no big deal. I've still got my
> very nice 700C bike that I like a lot.
Not really an experiment. A logical use of 650B wheels on an old 700C
bike that is no longer being used.
>
> When the 650B bike is finished, I'll take it for a few rides and write up
> about it--either on my own blog, r.b.m, here on r.b.t, or in all places at
> once.
>
> -Luigi
>
> --
> Luigi de Guzmanhttp://ouij.livejournal.com
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Date: 09 Jul 2007 05:36:45
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 22:08:59 -0700, G.T. wrote:
> bfd wrote:
>> The 650B movement is moving! According to Reknown Framebuilder Kirk
>> Pacenti,
>
> Can someone please turn off Kirk's microphone?
>
>> 650B or its new name 27.5" is the new thing, are you in? If not, you
>> better get with it!!!!!
>
> So I'm confused. Are these "new" 27.5" wheels bigger or smaller than my
> 27" wheels????????
Smaller...unless the tires are so wide/tall that the total circumference
of the rim + tire (584 + whatever) is greater than the old 27" wheel size
(630 + whatever).
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
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Date: 08 Jul 2007 22:59:25
From: G.T.
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
Luigi de Guzman wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 22:08:59 -0700, G.T. wrote:
>
>> bfd wrote:
>>> The 650B movement is moving! According to Reknown Framebuilder Kirk
>>> Pacenti,
>> Can someone please turn off Kirk's microphone?
>>
>>> 650B or its new name 27.5" is the new thing, are you in? If not, you
>>> better get with it!!!!!
>> So I'm confused. Are these "new" 27.5" wheels bigger or smaller than my
>> 27" wheels????????
>
> Smaller...unless the tires are so wide/tall that the total circumference
> of the rim + tire (584 + whatever) is greater than the old 27" wheel size
> (630 + whatever).
>
I got it, the marketeers must think 584 is greater than 630! Just like
they think 622 is greater than 630!
Greg
--
http://ticketmastersucks.org
Le Petite Dejeuner au Tour de Farce:
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=6131132
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| |
Date: 08 Jul 2007 22:08:59
From: G.T.
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
bfd wrote:
> The 650B movement is moving! According to Reknown Framebuilder Kirk
> Pacenti,
Can someone please turn off Kirk's microphone?
> 650B or its new name 27.5" is the new thing, are you in? If not, you
> better get with it!!!!!
So I'm confused. Are these "new" 27.5" wheels bigger or smaller than my
27" wheels????????
Greg
--
http://ticketmastersucks.org
Le Petite Dejeuner au Tour de Farce:
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=6131132
|
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Date: 08 Jul 2007 20:00:28
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 7, 11:44 am, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jul 7, 11:42 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > The 650B movement is moving! According to Reknown Framebuilder Kirk
> > Pacenti, there is an interest by *8 or 9 BIG mfrs* to fill in the 26"
> > and 29er size tires with the new 27.5 inch size (that's reads: 650B to
> > many). Check it out:
>
> > "I received 12 pairs of sample tires from
> > Panaracer last week. Many of these tires are
> > already in the hands of some very influential
> > companies, who are interested in pursuing this
> > wheel size to compliment the existing 26 and
> > 29 inch standards. There may be as many as 8-9
> > companies showing 27.5" wheeled MTB's at
> > Interbike this year.
>
> > As for a ride report, look for one in Dirt Rag
> > in August or September. They have been testing
> > my NAHBS show bike and will issue a full
> > report soon.
>
> > I will be doing several press-releases between
> > now and Interbike, as well as "show dailies"
> > during the event to promote the tires,
> > builders using them and the booths in which
> > the bikes are displayed. You all will be
> > hearing much more about this wheel size soon.
>
> > Any builders interested in the tire specs and
> > drawing please contact me off-list. I will be
> > happy to answer any questions you might have
> > about tires, rims, forks and other components.
>
> > Best regards,
>
> > Kirk Pacenti"
>
> > You see that?! "MANY OF THESE TIRES ARE ALREADY IN THE HANDS OF SOME
> > VERY INFLUENTIAL COMPANIES!!!!" Further, he states "THERE MAY BE AS
> > MANY AS 8-9 COMPANIES SHOWING 27.5" MTBs AT INTERBIKE THIS YEAR!!!"
>
> > 650B or its new name 27.5" is the new thing, are you in? If not, you
> > better get with it!!!!!
>
> So, when are you gonna convert your Calfee to 650B?-
No answer, Mr. Fong? Shall we conclude that there is a degree of
hypocrisy in your "enthusiasm" for 650B? ;-)
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Date: 08 Jul 2007 09:48:55
From: landotter
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 8, 12:53 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net > wrote:
> In article <1183865638.818122.61...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>
> landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 7, 5:41 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > > In article <1183847222.769260.190...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Why would I not be surprised if Grant's next thing is proprietary
> > > > thread standards, like Raleigh (or did I muse that already?)?
>
> > > Funnily enough... Rivendell has stopped using standard seatpost
> > > clamp bolts on their bikes. They now use a nut and bolt you can
> > > buy in any hardware store. Elitist bastards!
>
> > If that's true, it's just dang dumb. Link? Cite? Chain? Yank?
>
> It's a standard M6 allen bolt and nut. It's been mentioned in the
> Rivendell Reader and such a number of times over the past few years.
> It's not being trumpeted on the Web site, but you can see the nut side
> of the seat lug here.
>
> http://www.rivbike.com/v/misc/seatlug.jpg.html
>
> The nut fits into a recess in the lug to keep it form turning. The head
> of the allen bolt fits into a similar recess on the other side.
>
> Why would using a bolt you can get just about anywhere in the world,
> rather than a seat post bolt you can only get in a bike shop, be dumb?
Two blocks from where I sit you'll find Cumberland Hardware and East
Side Bicycles. Cumberland, as much as I love 'em, has a very limited
set of such bolts, and probably no real match--but the bike shop
stocks standard binder bolts.
Grant's choice is not only ugly and unnecessary, but stinks of phony
earnestness.
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| | |
Date: 08 Jul 2007 15:54:40
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
In article <1183913335.362391.229610@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com >,
landotter <landotter@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 8, 12:53 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > In article <1183865638.818122.61...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Jul 7, 5:41 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > <1183847222.769260.190...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > > > landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > Why would I not be surprised if Grant's next thing is
> > > > > proprietary thread standards, like Raleigh (or did I muse
> > > > > that already?)?
> >
> > > > Funnily enough... Rivendell has stopped using standard seatpost
> > > > clamp bolts on their bikes. They now use a nut and bolt you
> > > > can buy in any hardware store. Elitist bastards!
> >
> > > If that's true, it's just dang dumb. Link? Cite? Chain? Yank?
> >
> > It's a standard M6 allen bolt and nut. It's been mentioned in the
> > Rivendell Reader and such a number of times over the past few
> > years. It's not being trumpeted on the Web site, but you can see
> > the nut side of the seat lug here.
> >
> > http://www.rivbike.com/v/misc/seatlug.jpg.html
> >
> > The nut fits into a recess in the lug to keep it form turning. The
> > head of the allen bolt fits into a similar recess on the other
> > side.
> >
> > Why would using a bolt you can get just about anywhere in the
> > world, rather than a seat post bolt you can only get in a bike
> > shop, be dumb?
>
> Two blocks from where I sit you'll find Cumberland Hardware and East
> Side Bicycles. Cumberland, as much as I love 'em, has a very limited
> set of such bolts, and probably no real match--but the bike shop
> stocks standard binder bolts.
They don't stock M6 bolts? Maybe you should stop in and verify this
rather surprising assertion.
> Grant's choice is not only ugly and unnecessary, but stinks of phony
> earnestness.
LOL! Ya just can't make some people happy.
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Date: 10 Jul 2007 18:47:03
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 10, 8:41 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 10, 8:20 pm, Joe Bernard <josephrbern...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 10, 5:37 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > > IT'S TRUE! My 630 wheels are even faster.
>
> > > --
> > > Michael Press- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Heyyy, maybe I should do a "reverse Riv." Convert my Romulus from long-
> > reach to short-reach brakes and swap the 622s to 630s so I can go
> > faster. Brilliant!
>
> I'm three minutes from doing an errand on my 630 bike. Not only is it
> 630, but it's friggin' RED. Eat my dust suckahs!
>
> [brrrrinnnng brrrrinnnng]
No Brooks? No shellac?
Peasant!
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| | | |
Date: 11 Jul 2007 01:41:23
From: landotter
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 10, 8:20 pm, Joe Bernard <josephrbern...@sbcglobal.net > wrote:
> On Jul 10, 5:37 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > IT'S TRUE! My 630 wheels are even faster.
>
> > --
> > Michael Press- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Heyyy, maybe I should do a "reverse Riv." Convert my Romulus from long-
> reach to short-reach brakes and swap the 622s to 630s so I can go
> faster. Brilliant!
I'm three minutes from doing an errand on my 630 bike. Not only is it
630, but it's friggin' RED. Eat my dust suckahs!
[brrrrinnnng brrrrinnnng]
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| | | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 18:38:34
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 10, 8:20 pm, Joe Bernard <josephrbern...@sbcglobal.net > wrote:
> On Jul 10, 5:37 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article
> > <1184035687.692217.218...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
> > ,
> > Joe Bernard <josephrbern...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 9, 7:07 pm, Ozark Bicycle
> > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > On Jul 9, 8:37 pm, Joe Bernard <josephrbern...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jul 9, 5:49 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > In article <1395fnqc09qr...@corp.supernews.com>,
>
> > > > > > "G.T." <getne...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > "Tim McNamara" <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote in message
> > > > > > >news:timmcn-E25EA1.15071009072007@news.iphouse.com...
> > > > > > > > In article <1183994705.366163.140...@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > > > > John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >> On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
> > > > > > > >> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >> > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+
> > > > > > > >> > local bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even
> > > > > > > >> > know what you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special
> > > > > > > >> > ordered", but that's usually both an ordeal and an invitation to
> > > > > > > >> > pay through the nose. OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety
> > > > > > > >> > of both 700C and 26" wheels and tires *in stock*. And, of
> > > > > > > >> > course, they can be easily ordered on line at competitive
> > > > > > > >> > discounted prices directly by the end user.
>
> > > > > > > >> A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires,
> > > > > > > >> will also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
>
> > > > > > > > One of my bikes (a Rivendell All-Rounder) is a largish frame (60
> > > > > > > > cm) with 26" wheels.
>
> > > > > > > A 60cm with 26" wheels? For a large frame I see zero reason to run
> > > > > > > 559 or even 584. I couldn't find decent tires for my 559 equipped
> > > > > > > road bike and with Specialized 26x1.25" tires I had on it the ride
> > > > > > > was much more rattly than my 622 and 630 equipped bikes so that frame
> > > > > > > is currently on the wall of my garage awaiting a repurposing. Hell,
> > > > > > > I can fit 52mm front, and 44mm rear tires on my Soma so as a tall
> > > > > > > rider why in the world would I want to stick myself with 584 or 559
> > > > > > > wheels?
>
> > > > > > It seems to be my week for explaining myself. I bought this frame from
> > > > > > Rivendell in 1996. At that time all the All-Rounders came with 26"
> > > > > > wheels; later on these wheels were only used on smaller frames and 700C
> > > > > > wheels were used on the larger frames. It was my mountain bike for
> > > > > > several years (hence the choice of this frame rather than a road frame)
> > > > > > and has been converted into my primary bike for brevets and touring.
> > > > > > You can see the bike here:
>
> > > > > >http://www2.bitstream.net/~timmcn/tour2000.html
>
> > > > > > I use the Panaracer Pasela 26 x 1.25 which has been an excellent tire so
> > > > > > far.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > And The Hobbit says [again], 650B is for smallish frames with fat
> > > > > tires and fenders without a lot of toe-clip overlap for people who
> > > > > know the truth: 26" wheels are slow on pavement.
>
> > > > "the truth: 26" wheels are slow on pavement"? Do you have objective
> > > > data to confirm this? I'd be especially interested in seeing the data
> > > > on the diff of 559mm v. 584mm with similar/identical cross section
> > > > tires.
>
> > > > Don't hold back! ;-)
>
> > > > > And The Hobbit says, as pertains to the 603 boondoggle: It wasn't a
> > > > > joke, but, it's a stupid idea. I like Grant, I like his designs, but,
> > > > > he *is* half bonkers.-
>
> > > > Well, ain't *that* "the truth"!- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Objective data? What objective data? We don't need no OBJECTIVE DATA.
> > > It's just my subjective data, dude. I've ridden 559, 584 and 622, and
> > > I find I can feel the gyroscopic effect of the bigger wheels keeping
> > > some momentum as I back off the pedals, whereas with the 26-inchers,
> > > it feels like you're constantly pushing on them to keep them going.
> > > C'mon, everybody knows that!
>
> > IT'S TRUE! My 630 wheels are even faster.
>
> > --
> > Michael Press- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Heyyy, maybe I should do a "reverse Riv." Convert my Romulus from long-
> reach to short-reach brakes and swap the 622s to 630s so I can go
> faster. Brilliant!-
If 630 wheels were less available, more obscure, and more expensive,
this could be the next Riv-schtick!
|
| | | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 15:00:22
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 10, 2:52 pm, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Jul 10, 12:18 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > Ya know, if there was a tangible advantage to using 650B on a new bike
> > intended for use in North America, the inconvenience might make some
> > sense. But, AFAICT, the tangible advantage does not exist.
>
> The problem with 650B is trying to get the BIG mfrs to adopt it. If
> for some reason they do, the movement will take place.
But, what is the point of "the movement"? What is the point of this
oddball wheel standard on a new road bike intended for use in North
America? What benefit is conferred?
>
> However, its very unlikely for a couple of reason.
First and foremost, it is pointless.
> First, most BIG
> mfrs sell through local bike shops/dealers. Trying to convince these
> dealers to adopt another size is not going to be easy. The shops will
> have to spend additional resources to stock yet another rim/tire/tube
> size. Further, it will have to spend additional time trying to explain
> the size to the clueless general public.
>
> Remember, the ibob market Grant/Rivendell appeals to is usually one
> that is fairly knowledgable about bicycles.
Ha!
> Although in one Riv
> Reader, Grant did get a woman to "update" her old bike with newer
> parts at the tune of $900!!!!
>
> In contrast, the LBS sell to those who don't have a clue and need alot
> of explaining. Another tire size is not going to go over well with the
> dealers.
>
> >Converting an old, narrow clearance bike, etc., is a different matter.-
>
> This is where 650B actually makes some kind of sense. However, this is
> not a market for the BIG mfrs, although some shops/dealers may be able
> to make some money doing this type of conversion service.
>
> Again, the problem with 650B is trying to get some kind of momentum in
> the marketplace. IF the 27FIVE logo is a hit with mtbers, maybe that
> will be the market.
>
> Of course, mtbers have different needs then road riders, so 650B may
> not translate well. i.e., mtbers want disc brakes and shocks. Road
> 650Bs, especially ibobers, will want canti-brakes or long reach brakes
> and no shocks. For mtb, ibobers will want a mtb bike with rigid fork
> (look for the new RIvendell Bombadil coming soon) and regular canti-
> lever brakes.
|
| | | |
Date: 08 Jul 2007 21:40:21
From: still me
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:54:40 -0500, Tim McNamara
<timmcn@bitstream.net > wrote:
>
>They don't stock M6 bolts? Maybe you should stop in and verify this
>rather surprising assertion.
M6? Yes. They have them in a lovely shade of red mostly. Might go
nicely with some frames. But, I thought the Riv bolts were allen head
on one side, recessed nut on the other. That suggests a need for a
bolt with the "correct" size head.
|
| | | | |
Date: 08 Jul 2007 21:39:45
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
>Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
>> They don't stock M6 bolts? Maybe you should stop in and verify this
>> rather surprising assertion.
still me wrote:
> M6? Yes. They have them in a lovely shade of red mostly. Might go
> nicely with some frames. But, I thought the Riv bolts were allen head
> on one side, recessed nut on the other. That suggests a need for a
> bolt with the "correct" size head.
There's a DIN spec for that, it's called DIN-912; standard all over the
world. It's bicycle parts which have different heads, not metric hardware.
p.s. we used that set lug on some 3Renshos for the same reasons as GP
but customer reaction wasn't positive. Panasonic Team frames used that
lug at one time too. Customers just expect the double-allen bolt. No
functional issues AFAIK either way.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | | |
Date: 08 Jul 2007 21:05:21
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
In article <jam293dafkos3beo2o6nmb0umouud1r6jf@4ax.com >,
still me <wheeledBob@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:54:40 -0500, Tim McNamara
> <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >They don't stock M6 bolts? Maybe you should stop in and verify this
> >rather surprising assertion.
>
> M6? Yes. They have them in a lovely shade of red mostly. Might go
> nicely with some frames. But, I thought the Riv bolts were allen head
> on one side, recessed nut on the other. That suggests a need for a
> bolt with the "correct" size head.
Standard Allen bolt and standard hex nut. Every hardware store should
have them.
|
| |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 20:54:19
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 7, 10:33 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 7, 5:41 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <1183847222.769260.190...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Jul 7, 5:17 pm, Ozark Bicycle
> > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > On Jul 7, 4:23 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > And, believe it or not, the Hobbits are floating the idea of a
> > > > > > 603mm BSD wheel. Alot of folks thought this was a joke, but,
> > > > > > apparently it isn't!
>
> > > > > >http://tinyurl.com/32rgl5
>
> > > > > The Onion could not have topped that. Oh my.-
>
> > > > Hey, it's a way to sell yet another bike to the same small circle
> > > > of devotees, right?
>
> > > Why would I not be surprised if Grant's next thing is proprietary
> > > thread standards, like Raleigh (or did I muse that already?)?
>
> > Funnily enough... Rivendell has stopped using standard seatpost clamp
> > bolts on their bikes. They now use a nut and bolt you can buy in any
> > hardware store. Elitist bastards!
>
> If that's true, it's just dang dumb.
Of course, it slightly lowers their costs, too. As does phasing out
those pesky canti-brake mounts on the newer frames (IOW, building the
frame to take sidepull/dual-pivot brakes is *cheaper*.)
> Link? Cite? Chain? Yank?-
|
| |
Date: 08 Jul 2007 03:41:06
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 13:56:01 -0500, Tim McNamara wrote:
> In article <1183826523.613698.15810@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
> bfd <bfd853@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> You see that?! "MANY OF THESE TIRES ARE ALREADY IN THE HANDS OF SOME
>> VERY INFLUENTIAL COMPANIES!!!!" Further, he states "THERE MAY BE AS
>> MANY AS 8-9 COMPANIES SHOWING 27.5" MTBs AT INTERBIKE THIS YEAR!!!"
>
> Whoa, there, big fella. Let's not count chickens while they are still
> in the shell. "Many" tires and "some" companies still adds up to
> vaporware. I'll believe it when I see Trek's 650B offering.
Well, I'm a hype victim--incubating. My 650B rims are on order at the LBS.
In the interest of science, I have decided to have a set of 650B wheels
built up for an old Raleigh frame that's been hanging in the shed. It
needed new wheels anyway, and the prospect of being able to ride the frame
again (it was my first "nice" bike) but running a more sensible tire width
is intriguing.
If this experiment doesn't work out, well, no big deal. I've still got my
very nice 700C bike that I like a lot.
When the 650B bike is finished, I'll take it for a few rides and write up
about it--either on my own blog, r.b.m, here on r.b.t, or in all places at
once.
-Luigi
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
|
| |
Date: 08 Jul 2007 03:33:58
From: landotter
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 7, 5:41 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net > wrote:
> In article <1183847222.769260.190...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 7, 5:17 pm, Ozark Bicycle
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > On Jul 7, 4:23 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > And, believe it or not, the Hobbits are floating the idea of a
> > > > > 603mm BSD wheel. Alot of folks thought this was a joke, but,
> > > > > apparently it isn't!
>
> > > > >http://tinyurl.com/32rgl5
>
> > > > The Onion could not have topped that. Oh my.-
>
> > > Hey, it's a way to sell yet another bike to the same small circle
> > > of devotees, right?
>
> > Why would I not be surprised if Grant's next thing is proprietary
> > thread standards, like Raleigh (or did I muse that already?)?
>
> Funnily enough... Rivendell has stopped using standard seatpost clamp
> bolts on their bikes. They now use a nut and bolt you can buy in any
> hardware store. Elitist bastards!
If that's true, it's just dang dumb. Link? Cite? Chain? Yank?
|
| | |
Date: 08 Jul 2007 00:53:34
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
In article <1183865638.818122.61310@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com >,
landotter <landotter@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 7, 5:41 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > In article <1183847222.769260.190...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Why would I not be surprised if Grant's next thing is proprietary
> > > thread standards, like Raleigh (or did I muse that already?)?
> >
> > Funnily enough... Rivendell has stopped using standard seatpost
> > clamp bolts on their bikes. They now use a nut and bolt you can
> > buy in any hardware store. Elitist bastards!
>
> If that's true, it's just dang dumb. Link? Cite? Chain? Yank?
It's a standard M6 allen bolt and nut. It's been mentioned in the
Rivendell Reader and such a number of times over the past few years.
It's not being trumpeted on the Web site, but you can see the nut side
of the seat lug here.
http://www.rivbike.com/v/misc/seatlug.jpg.html
The nut fits into a recess in the lug to keep it form turning. The head
of the allen bolt fits into a similar recess on the other side.
Why would using a bolt you can get just about anywhere in the world,
rather than a seat post bolt you can only get in a bike shop, be dumb?
|
| | | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 18:20:30
From: Joe Bernard
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 10, 5:37 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net > wrote:
> In article
> <1184035687.692217.218...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
> ,
> Joe Bernard <josephrbern...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 9, 7:07 pm, Ozark Bicycle
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > On Jul 9, 8:37 pm, Joe Bernard <josephrbern...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 9, 5:49 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > In article <1395fnqc09qr...@corp.supernews.com>,
>
> > > > > "G.T." <getne...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> > > > > > "Tim McNamara" <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote in message
> > > > > >news:timmcn-E25EA1.15071009072007@news.iphouse.com...
> > > > > > > In article <1183994705.366163.140...@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > > > John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > >> On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
> > > > > > >> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > >> > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+
> > > > > > >> > local bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even
> > > > > > >> > know what you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special
> > > > > > >> > ordered", but that's usually both an ordeal and an invitation to
> > > > > > >> > pay through the nose. OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety
> > > > > > >> > of both 700C and 26" wheels and tires *in stock*. And, of
> > > > > > >> > course, they can be easily ordered on line at competitive
> > > > > > >> > discounted prices directly by the end user.
>
> > > > > > >> A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires,
> > > > > > >> will also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
>
> > > > > > > One of my bikes (a Rivendell All-Rounder) is a largish frame (60
> > > > > > > cm) with 26" wheels.
>
> > > > > > A 60cm with 26" wheels? For a large frame I see zero reason to run
> > > > > > 559 or even 584. I couldn't find decent tires for my 559 equipped
> > > > > > road bike and with Specialized 26x1.25" tires I had on it the ride
> > > > > > was much more rattly than my 622 and 630 equipped bikes so that frame
> > > > > > is currently on the wall of my garage awaiting a repurposing. Hell,
> > > > > > I can fit 52mm front, and 44mm rear tires on my Soma so as a tall
> > > > > > rider why in the world would I want to stick myself with 584 or 559
> > > > > > wheels?
>
> > > > > It seems to be my week for explaining myself. I bought this frame from
> > > > > Rivendell in 1996. At that time all the All-Rounders came with 26"
> > > > > wheels; later on these wheels were only used on smaller frames and 700C
> > > > > wheels were used on the larger frames. It was my mountain bike for
> > > > > several years (hence the choice of this frame rather than a road frame)
> > > > > and has been converted into my primary bike for brevets and touring.
> > > > > You can see the bike here:
>
> > > > >http://www2.bitstream.net/~timmcn/tour2000.html
>
> > > > > I use the Panaracer Pasela 26 x 1.25 which has been an excellent tire so
> > > > > far.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > And The Hobbit says [again], 650B is for smallish frames with fat
> > > > tires and fenders without a lot of toe-clip overlap for people who
> > > > know the truth: 26" wheels are slow on pavement.
>
> > > "the truth: 26" wheels are slow on pavement"? Do you have objective
> > > data to confirm this? I'd be especially interested in seeing the data
> > > on the diff of 559mm v. 584mm with similar/identical cross section
> > > tires.
>
> > > Don't hold back! ;-)
>
> > > > And The Hobbit says, as pertains to the 603 boondoggle: It wasn't a
> > > > joke, but, it's a stupid idea. I like Grant, I like his designs, but,
> > > > he *is* half bonkers.-
>
> > > Well, ain't *that* "the truth"!- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Objective data? What objective data? We don't need no OBJECTIVE DATA.
> > It's just my subjective data, dude. I've ridden 559, 584 and 622, and
> > I find I can feel the gyroscopic effect of the bigger wheels keeping
> > some momentum as I back off the pedals, whereas with the 26-inchers,
> > it feels like you're constantly pushing on them to keep them going.
> > C'mon, everybody knows that!
>
> IT'S TRUE! My 630 wheels are even faster.
>
> --
> Michael Press- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Heyyy, maybe I should do a "reverse Riv." Convert my Romulus from long-
reach to short-reach brakes and swap the 622s to 630s so I can go
faster. Brilliant!
|
| | | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 12:52:39
From: bfd
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 10, 12:18 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> Ya know, if there was a tangible advantage to using 650B on a new bike
> intended for use in North America, the inconvenience might make some
> sense. But, AFAICT, the tangible advantage does not exist.
The problem with 650B is trying to get the BIG mfrs to adopt it. If
for some reason they do, the movement will take place.
However, its very unlikely for a couple of reason. First, most BIG
mfrs sell through local bike shops/dealers. Trying to convince these
dealers to adopt another size is not going to be easy. The shops will
have to spend additional resources to stock yet another rim/tire/tube
size. Further, it will have to spend additional time trying to explain
the size to the clueless general public.
Remember, the ibob market Grant/Rivendell appeals to is usually one
that is fairly knowledgable about bicycles. Although in one Riv
Reader, Grant did get a woman to "update" her old bike with newer
parts at the tune of $900!!!!
In contrast, the LBS sell to those who don't have a clue and need alot
of explaining. Another tire size is not going to go over well with the
dealers.
>Converting an old, narrow clearance bike, etc., is a different matter.-
This is where 650B actually makes some kind of sense. However, this is
not a market for the BIG mfrs, although some shops/dealers may be able
to make some money doing this type of conversion service.
Again, the problem with 650B is trying to get some kind of momentum in
the marketplace. IF the 27FIVE logo is a hit with mtbers, maybe that
will be the market.
Of course, mtbers have different needs then road riders, so 650B may
not translate well. i.e., mtbers want disc brakes and shocks. Road
650Bs, especially ibobers, will want canti-brakes or long reach brakes
and no shocks. For mtb, ibobers will want a mtb bike with rigid fork
(look for the new RIvendell Bombadil coming soon) and regular canti-
lever brakes.
|
| | | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 12:18:56
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 10, 2:08 pm, John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 10, 2:42 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 10, 1:00 pm, John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 10, 1:13 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > On Jul 10, 11:45 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jul 9, 8:25 am, John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Jul 9, 9:38 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On Jul 9, 8:54 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > In article <1183947517.691793.215...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > > > > > > > landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Jul 8, 9:05 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > In article <jam293dafkos3beo2o6nmb0umouud1r...@4ax.com>,
> > > > > > > > > > > still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:54:40 -0500, Tim McNamara
> > > > > > > > > > > > <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >They don't stock M6 bolts? Maybe you should stop in and verify
> > > > > > > > > > > > >this rather surprising assertion.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > M6? Yes. They have them in a lovely shade of red mostly. Might go
> > > > > > > > > > > > nicely with some frames. But, I thought the Riv bolts were allen
> > > > > > > > > > > > head on one side, recessed nut on the other. That suggests a need
> > > > > > > > > > > > for a bolt with the "correct" size head.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Standard Allen bolt and standard hex nut.
> > > > > > > > > > > Every hardware store should have them.
>
> > > > > > > > > > Um, how many binder bolts have you broken?
>
> > > > > > > > > Two. But that *is* in 40+ years of riding bikes. One was a Simplex
> > > > > > > > > style bolt, the other was one of those newfangled collar things.
>
> > > > > > > > > > The classic style is available at any shop for $5.
>
> > > > > > > > > Which is great, if you break one near a bike shop. Outside of American
> > > > > > > > > and European bike shops, standard seat post bolts are weird nonstandard
> > > > > > > > > things.
>
> > > > > > > > You can use any old bolt and a couple washers to get you to the next
> > > > > > > > bike shop. It won't look good--but it's just a pinch collar, for
> > > > > > > > cripe's sake.
>
> > > > > > > > > > What an odd thing to "standardize" when you promote weird tire sizes
> > > > > > > > > > and shellacking bar tape.
>
> > > > > > > > > The majority of tires Rivendell sells are 700 x 28 mm. I didn't know
> > > > > > > > > that was a weird size. 650B has been an existing standard for nearly
> > > > > > > > > 100 years, used in France, England, Sweden and other places. Just not
> > > > > > > > > much in the US which is, thankfully, not the center of the universe
> > > > > > > > > despite our pretensions to the contrary. You might think it's weird,
> > > > > > > > > but in a fair amount of the world it isn't.
>
> > > > > > > > It's weird. Look, I rode Swedish 28" roadsters and Monark folders with
> > > > > > > > who knows what size tires when I was young--they were common in
> > > > > > > > Sweden. Here such sizes are odd. But your argument is about as empty
> > > > > > > > as promoting Dunlop valves, because they're simple technology beloved
> > > > > > > > by a billion people in Asia and the subcontinent.
>
> > > > > > > > > More people in the world use the 28 x 1 1/2 (635 mm) size than use the
> > > > > > > > > 559, 622 or 630 mm sizes. In much of the world your 700C wheels would
> > > > > > > > > be considered weird. Better stay home so you don't have to worry about
> > > > > > > > > these things. ;-)
>
> > > > > > > > What a non-argument. If I was to set off on a world expedition, I'd
> > > > > > > > simply use a 26" wheel bike. Such tires are available pretty much
> > > > > > > > anywhere roadster tires are. If I was touring Europe, I'd stick to
> > > > > > > > 700c. In the US, I'd not feel uncomfortable using even 27" wheels--
> > > > > > > > because even Wally World will sell you a $10 27" tire when you're in
> > > > > > > > the bowels of Alabama.
>
> > > > > > > > 650B on a new build--by choice, instead of simply choosing a frame
> > > > > > > > that can accomodate fat 700c or even 27", is pointless pretense.-
>
> > > > > > > One could also make a case for 559mm/26" on a smallish frame.
>
> > > > > > > 650B on a new build for a bicycle sold by a North American vendor for
> > > > > > > use primarily in North America is a classic case of niche marketing to
> > > > > > > benefit the vendor at the long term expense of the end user. Seems
> > > > > > > pretty clear.
>
> > > > > > > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+ local
> > > > > > > bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even know what
> > > > > > > you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special ordered", but that's
> > > > > > > usually both an ordeal and an invitation to pay through the nose.
> > > > > > > OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety of both 700C and 26" wheels
> > > > > > > and tires *in stock*. And, of course, they can be easily ordered on
> > > > > > > line at competitive discounted prices directly by the end user.
>
> > > > > > A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires, will
> > > > > > also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
>
> > > > > Agree, for years I've been a big fan of Avocet tires. Their Avocet
> > > > > Fasgrip City 26x1.25 is a great rolling tire. However, Avocet has the
> > > > > worst distribution policy of any company and finding them has always
> > > > > been a challenged. Further, it appears that Avocet has decided to
> > > > > discontinue its 26" tires. What to do?
>
> > > > > Looking around, I found a tire that offers probably 85-90% of the
> > > > > performance of the above Avocet tire, at 1/3 the price!
>
> > > > > Check out the Performance Forte City tire in 26x1.25, it is a true
> > > > > slick tire that seems to roll "as well" as the Avocet and at the
> > > > > current sale price of $8 each, regular price is $12, its a bargain:
>
> > > > >http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=15304&subcategory...
>
> > > > Not surprisingly, Nashbar has that same tire under their 'brand", too.
> > > > Item NS-SBT in 26 x 1.25. Sometimes Nashbar is cheaper, sometimes
> > > > Performance - it pays to check both, and generally, you'll pay an
> > > > average of about $10. No pay-through-the-nose special orders
> > > > needed! ;-)
>
> > > I wouldn't call buying a $14 tire "paying-through-the-nose".
> > > ie. 584mm Panaracer Col de la Vie
>
> > Have you bought that tire for $14 from a shop that "special ordered"
> > it for you?
>
> No, I haven't. I thought we were comparing prices from online,
> discount sources.
Ah. My mistake, then. Mea culpa. And, yes, $14 is a good price for
what I assume (Heine and the iBobs not withstanding) is a decent tire.
What's the source?
>
> >Not many shops, AFAICT (exceptions exist, of course),
> > stock 650B *anything*.
>
> Agreed.
>
>
>
> > In Hobbitville, they want $28 and up for 650B tires and - this is
> > interesting - they note that "Bike shops don't generally stock them
> > [650B tires] and most bike people haven't even heard of them." Doesn't
> > sound like an easily/generally available item to me.
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/8x658
>
> > or:
>
> >http://preview.tinyurl.com/8x658
>
> Your right in that it is an inconvenience obtaining rims and tires in
> the U.S. if you decide to use a wheel size different than 622mm or
> 559mm. Some, who often order parts online anyways, consider the
> inconvenience trivial. Perhaps they just stock up on supplies while
> they last.-
Ya know, if there was a tangible advantage to using 650B on a new bike
intended for use in North America, the inconvenience might make some
sense. But, AFAICT, the tangible advantage does not exist. Converting
an old, narrow clearance bike, etc., is a different matter.
|
| | | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 09:42:49
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 10, 1:28 am, Joe Bernard <josephrbern...@sbcglobal.net > wrote:
> On Jul 9, 9:42 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <1184031455.616182.317...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> > Joe Bernard <josephrbern...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > > > It seems to be my week for explaining myself. I bought this frame
> > > > from Rivendell in 1996. At that time all the All-Rounders came
> > > > with 26" wheels; later on these wheels were only used on smaller
> > > > frames and 700C wheels were used on the larger frames. It was my
> > > > mountain bike for several years (hence the choice of this frame
> > > > rather than a road frame) and has been converted into my primary
> > > > bike for brevets and touring. You can see the bike here:
>
> > > >http://www2.bitstream.net/~timmcn/tour2000.html
>
> > > > I use the Panaracer Pasela 26 x 1.25 which has been an excellent
> > > > tire so far.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > And The Hobbit says [again], 650B is for smallish frames with fat
> > > tires and fenders without a lot of toe-clip overlap for people who
> > > know the truth: 26" wheels are slow on pavement.
>
> > Until I got the Paselas, I've have agreed with you but no longer. I
> > tried a bunch of different tires over the past 11 years and found that
> > my average speeds were about 1 mph slower over the same rolling to hilly
> > routes as on my 700C bikes at the same perceived effort. With the
> > Paselas there is no difference according to my cycle computers
> > (calibrated by roll-out). The All-Rounder rolls just as well on these
> > tires as my road bikes with 700 x 25s.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Well then, Ozark's got it all worked out and I'm an idiot. That's OK,
> I'm married. I'm used to it. Ozark wins again!-
Now available: "Life as a Zero Sum Game" - by Joe Bernard, with a
special introduction by the Pied Piper of Bicycle Hooey, Grant Petersen
|
| | | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 19:52:18
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 9, 9:48 pm, Joe Bernard <josephrbern...@sbcglobal.net > wrote:
> On Jul 9, 7:07 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 9, 8:37 pm, Joe Bernard <josephrbern...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 9, 5:49 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > In article <1395fnqc09qr...@corp.supernews.com>,
>
> > > > "G.T." <getne...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> > > > > "Tim McNamara" <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote in message
> > > > >news:timmcn-E25EA1.15071009072007@news.iphouse.com...
> > > > > > In article <1183994705.366163.140...@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > > John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > >> On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
> > > > > >> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > >> > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+
> > > > > >> > local bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even
> > > > > >> > know what you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special
> > > > > >> > ordered", but that's usually both an ordeal and an invitation to
> > > > > >> > pay through the nose. OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety
> > > > > >> > of both 700C and 26" wheels and tires *in stock*. And, of
> > > > > >> > course, they can be easily ordered on line at competitive
> > > > > >> > discounted prices directly by the end user.
>
> > > > > >> A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires,
> > > > > >> will also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
>
> > > > > > One of my bikes (a Rivendell All-Rounder) is a largish frame (60
> > > > > > cm) with 26" wheels.
>
> > > > > A 60cm with 26" wheels? For a large frame I see zero reason to run
> > > > > 559 or even 584. I couldn't find decent tires for my 559 equipped
> > > > > road bike and with Specialized 26x1.25" tires I had on it the ride
> > > > > was much more rattly than my 622 and 630 equipped bikes so that frame
> > > > > is currently on the wall of my garage awaiting a repurposing. Hell,
> > > > > I can fit 52mm front, and 44mm rear tires on my Soma so as a tall
> > > > > rider why in the world would I want to stick myself with 584 or 559
> > > > > wheels?
>
> > > > It seems to be my week for explaining myself. I bought this frame from
> > > > Rivendell in 1996. At that time all the All-Rounders came with 26"
> > > > wheels; later on these wheels were only used on smaller frames and 700C
> > > > wheels were used on the larger frames. It was my mountain bike for
> > > > several years (hence the choice of this frame rather than a road frame)
> > > > and has been converted into my primary bike for brevets and touring.
> > > > You can see the bike here:
>
> > > >http://www2.bitstream.net/~timmcn/tour2000.html
>
> > > > I use the Panaracer Pasela 26 x 1.25 which has been an excellent tire so
> > > > far.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > And The Hobbit says [again], 650B is for smallish frames with fat
> > > tires and fenders without a lot of toe-clip overlap for people who
> > > know the truth: 26" wheels are slow on pavement.
>
> > "the truth: 26" wheels are slow on pavement"? Do you have objective
> > data to confirm this? I'd be especially interested in seeing the data
> > on the diff of 559mm v. 584mm with similar/identical cross section
> > tires.
>
> > Don't hold back! ;-)
>
> > > And The Hobbit says, as pertains to the 603 boondoggle: It wasn't a
> > > joke, but, it's a stupid idea. I like Grant, I like his designs, but,
> > > he *is* half bonkers.-
>
> > Well, ain't *that* "the truth"!- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Objective data? What objective data? We don't need no OBJECTIVE DATA.
> It's just my subjective data, dude. I've ridden 559, 584 and 622, and
> I find I can feel the gyroscopic effect of the bigger wheels keeping
> some momentum as I back off the pedals, whereas with the 26-inchers,
> it feels like you're constantly pushing on them to keep them going.
> C'mon, everybody knows that!-
So, you have nada.......thought so.
|
| | | |
Date: 08 Jul 2007 12:57:11
From: still me
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 00:53:34 -0500, Tim McNamara
<timmcn@bitstream.net > wrote:
>http://www.rivbike.com/v/misc/seatlug.jpg.html
>
>The nut fits into a recess in the lug to keep it form turning. The head
>of the allen bolt fits into a similar recess on the other side.
You can use a standard bolt, nut, and a couple of washers on most any
frame I ride. A couple of wrenches and you're all set, allen head not
even needed. That's even better than the proprietary design from Riv.
But, a "seatpost bolt" looks a lot nicer. Same with the Riv bike - the
bolt and nut thing is so "ug".
Not to mention, while you can probably find a replacement bolt if you
look in the right places, you won't find them in the right length,
with the allen head, and in the right material and finish at every
hardware store. I know my local hardware store has an extensive
selection of small hardware but there's only a box or two of allen
head bolts and hitting the right length, material, and finish would be
unlikely. Chances are I'd be ordering from McMaster Carr or calling
Riv.
So, it is just another non-standard part that has to be stocked
because Riv wanted to fix a problem that didn't exist.
|
| | | | |
Date: 08 Jul 2007 10:52:38
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
In article <95n193la1lcusp2sed6vjq3gb1higjg94u@4ax.com >,
still me <wheeledBob@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 00:53:34 -0500, Tim McNamara
> <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> >http://www.rivbike.com/v/misc/seatlug.jpg.html
> >
> >The nut fits into a recess in the lug to keep it form turning. The
> >head of the allen bolt fits into a similar recess on the other side.
>
> You can use a standard bolt, nut, and a couple of washers on most any
> frame I ride. A couple of wrenches and you're all set, allen head not
> even needed. That's even better than the proprietary design from Riv.
> But, a "seatpost bolt" looks a lot nicer. Same with the Riv bike -
> the bolt and nut thing is so "ug".
>
> Not to mention, while you can probably find a replacement bolt if you
> look in the right places, you won't find them in the right length,
> with the allen head, and in the right material and finish at every
> hardware store. I know my local hardware store has an extensive
> selection of small hardware but there's only a box or two of allen
> head bolts and hitting the right length, material, and finish would
> be unlikely. Chances are I'd be ordering from McMaster Carr or
> calling Riv.
>
> So, it is just another non-standard part that has to be stocked
> because Riv wanted to fix a problem that didn't exist.
Ya just can't make some people happy, I guess.
|
| |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 15:42:09
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 7, 5:27 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 7, 5:17 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 7, 4:23 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 7, 3:07 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > On Jul 7, 2:44 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jul 7, 2:32 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
>
> > > > > <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > landotter? wrote:
> > > > > > > On Jul 7, 11:42 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >> The 650B movement is moving! According to Reknown Framebuilder Kirk
> > > > > > >> Pacenti, there is an interest by *8 or 9 BIG mfrs* to fill in the 26"
> > > > > > >> and 29er size tires with the new 27.5 inch size (that's reads: 650B to
> > > > > > >> many).
>
> > > > > > > What about the 600A size at 540mm? Think of all the stumpy people that
> > > > > > > want road bikes that could benefit from this size! Think of the
> > > > > > > children!!
>
> > > > > > We are introducing the ISO 626-mm tire to satisfy those discriminating
> > > > > > cyclists who find the ISO 622-mm (700C) too small, but the ISO 630-mm
> > > > > > (27-inch) too large.
>
> > > > > > Out next product will be a folder with ISO 352-mm wheels, which will
> > > > > > offer a significant advantage over the smaller ISO 349-mm Brompton
> > > > > > wheels while being much more compact than the Birdy with its ISO 355-mm
> > > > > > wheels.
>
> > > > > All silliness aside, there actually is a 600A size over there in Old
> > > > > Europe.-
>
> > > > And, believe it or not, the Hobbits are floating the idea of a 603mm
> > > > BSD wheel. Alot of folks thought this was a joke, but, apparently it
> > > > isn't!
>
> > > >http://tinyurl.com/32rgl5
>
> > > The Onion could not have topped that. Oh my.-
>
> > Hey, it's a way to sell yet another bike to the same small circle of
> > devotees, right?
>
> Why would I not be surprised if Grant's next thing is proprietary
> thread standards, like Raleigh (or did I muse that already?)?-
As long as they're re-animating the dead (e.g., 650B), why not just
bring back French threads, for starters?
("If you don't have your very own 603mm wheeled, French threaded Riv
yet, you need to order one NOW!") ;-)
|
| | |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 17:44:16
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
"Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote in message
news:1183848129.384173.197740@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 7, 5:27 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 7, 5:17 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<snip >
> >
> > > Hey, it's a way to sell yet another bike to the same small circle of
> > > devotees, right?
> >
> > Why would I not be surprised if Grant's next thing is proprietary
> > thread standards, like Raleigh (or did I muse that already?)?-
>
>
> As long as they're re-animating the dead (e.g., 650B), why not just
> bring back French threads, for starters?
>
Better yet, the obsolete SF (Système Français) standard with 50° thread
angles.
Chas.
|
| |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 22:27:02
From: landotter
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 7, 5:17 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jul 7, 4:23 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 7, 3:07 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > On Jul 7, 2:44 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 7, 2:32 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
>
> > > > <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > landotter? wrote:
> > > > > > On Jul 7, 11:42 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > >> The 650B movement is moving! According to Reknown Framebuilder Kirk
> > > > > >> Pacenti, there is an interest by *8 or 9 BIG mfrs* to fill in the 26"
> > > > > >> and 29er size tires with the new 27.5 inch size (that's reads: 650B to
> > > > > >> many).
>
> > > > > > What about the 600A size at 540mm? Think of all the stumpy people that
> > > > > > want road bikes that could benefit from this size! Think of the
> > > > > > children!!
>
> > > > > We are introducing the ISO 626-mm tire to satisfy those discriminating
> > > > > cyclists who find the ISO 622-mm (700C) too small, but the ISO 630-mm
> > > > > (27-inch) too large.
>
> > > > > Out next product will be a folder with ISO 352-mm wheels, which will
> > > > > offer a significant advantage over the smaller ISO 349-mm Brompton
> > > > > wheels while being much more compact than the Birdy with its ISO 355-mm
> > > > > wheels.
>
> > > > All silliness aside, there actually is a 600A size over there in Old
> > > > Europe.-
>
> > > And, believe it or not, the Hobbits are floating the idea of a 603mm
> > > BSD wheel. Alot of folks thought this was a joke, but, apparently it
> > > isn't!
>
> > >http://tinyurl.com/32rgl5
>
> > The Onion could not have topped that. Oh my.-
>
> Hey, it's a way to sell yet another bike to the same small circle of
> devotees, right?
Why would I not be surprised if Grant's next thing is proprietary
thread standards, like Raleigh (or did I muse that already?)?
|
| | |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 17:41:06
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
"landotter" <landotter@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1183847222.769260.190290@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 7, 5:17 pm, Ozark Bicycle
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 7, 4:23 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jul 7, 3:07 pm, Ozark Bicycle
> >
> > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > On Jul 7, 2:44 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > On Jul 7, 2:32 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
> >
> > > > > <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > landotter? wrote:
> > > > > > > On Jul 7, 11:42 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >> The 650B movement is moving! According to Reknown
Framebuilder Kirk
> > > > > > >> Pacenti, there is an interest by *8 or 9 BIG mfrs* to fill
in the 26"
> > > > > > >> and 29er size tires with the new 27.5 inch size (that's
reads: 650B to
> > > > > > >> many).
> >
> > > > > > > What about the 600A size at 540mm? Think of all the stumpy
people that
> > > > > > > want road bikes that could benefit from this size! Think of
the
> > > > > > > children!!
> >
> > > > > > We are introducing the ISO 626-mm tire to satisfy those
discriminating
> > > > > > cyclists who find the ISO 622-mm (700C) too small, but the ISO
630-mm
> > > > > > (27-inch) too large.
> >
> > > > > > Out next product will be a folder with ISO 352-mm wheels,
which will
> > > > > > offer a significant advantage over the smaller ISO 349-mm
Brompton
> > > > > > wheels while being much more compact than the Birdy with its
ISO 355-mm
> > > > > > wheels.
> >
> > > > > All silliness aside, there actually is a 600A size over there in
Old
> > > > > Europe.-
> >
> > > > And, believe it or not, the Hobbits are floating the idea of a
603mm
> > > > BSD wheel. Alot of folks thought this was a joke, but, apparently
it
> > > > isn't!
> >
> > > >http://tinyurl.com/32rgl5
> >
> > > The Onion could not have topped that. Oh my.-
> >
> > Hey, it's a way to sell yet another bike to the same small circle of
> > devotees, right?
>
> Why would I not be surprised if Grant's next thing is proprietary
> thread standards, like Raleigh (or did I muse that already?)?
>
Left hand dual start threads with inch diameters and metric thread pitch
or...
since he seems to be infatuated with old French stuff the obsolete SF
(Système Français) standard with 50° thread angles.
Does he like Jerry Lewis too?
Chas.
|
| | |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 17:41:18
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
In article <1183847222.769260.190290@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com >,
landotter <landotter@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 7, 5:17 pm, Ozark Bicycle
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 7, 4:23 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > And, believe it or not, the Hobbits are floating the idea of a
> > > > 603mm BSD wheel. Alot of folks thought this was a joke, but,
> > > > apparently it isn't!
> >
> > > >http://tinyurl.com/32rgl5
> >
> > > The Onion could not have topped that. Oh my.-
> >
> > Hey, it's a way to sell yet another bike to the same small circle
> > of devotees, right?
>
> Why would I not be surprised if Grant's next thing is proprietary
> thread standards, like Raleigh (or did I muse that already?)?
Funnily enough... Rivendell has stopped using standard seatpost clamp
bolts on their bikes. They now use a nut and bolt you can buy in any
hardware store. Elitist bastards!
|
| | | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 15:34:34
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 10, 12:26 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 10, 12:13 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 10, 11:45 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Looking around, I found a tire that offers probably 85-90% of the
> > > performance of the above Avocet tire, at 1/3 the price!
>
> > > Check out the Performance Forte City tire in 26x1.25, it is a true
> > > slick tire that seems to roll "as well" as the Avocet and at the
> > > current sale price of $8 each, regular price is $12, its a bargain:
>
> > >http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=15304&subcategory...
>
> > Not surprisingly, Nashbar has that same tire under their 'brand", too.
> > Item NS-SBT in 26 x 1.25. Sometimes Nashbar is cheaper, sometimes
> > Performance - it pays to check both, and generally, you'll pay an
> > average of about $10. No pay-through-the-nose special orders
> > needed! ;-)
>
> I really like that tire a lot. It rolls nicely like a 650B, but
> without the twine getting all caught up in your spokes.
Twine is one thing, but mind the bees wax.
> The ST/K
> version is $13 with a kevlar belt--which *does* seem to prevent flats--
> at least the ones around here.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
|
| | | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 19:08:17
From: John
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 10, 2:42 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jul 10, 1:00 pm, John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 10, 1:13 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > On Jul 10, 11:45 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 9, 8:25 am, John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Jul 9, 9:38 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Jul 9, 8:54 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > In article <1183947517.691793.215...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > > > > > > landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Jul 8, 9:05 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > In article <jam293dafkos3beo2o6nmb0umouud1r...@4ax.com>,
> > > > > > > > > > still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:54:40 -0500, Tim McNamara
> > > > > > > > > > > <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > >They don't stock M6 bolts? Maybe you should stop in and verify
> > > > > > > > > > > >this rather surprising assertion.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > M6? Yes. They have them in a lovely shade of red mostly. Might go
> > > > > > > > > > > nicely with some frames. But, I thought the Riv bolts were allen
> > > > > > > > > > > head on one side, recessed nut on the other. That suggests a need
> > > > > > > > > > > for a bolt with the "correct" size head.
>
> > > > > > > > > > Standard Allen bolt and standard hex nut.
> > > > > > > > > > Every hardware store should have them.
>
> > > > > > > > > Um, how many binder bolts have you broken?
>
> > > > > > > > Two. But that *is* in 40+ years of riding bikes. One was a Simplex
> > > > > > > > style bolt, the other was one of those newfangled collar things.
>
> > > > > > > > > The classic style is available at any shop for $5.
>
> > > > > > > > Which is great, if you break one near a bike shop. Outside of American
> > > > > > > > and European bike shops, standard seat post bolts are weird nonstandard
> > > > > > > > things.
>
> > > > > > > You can use any old bolt and a couple washers to get you to the next
> > > > > > > bike shop. It won't look good--but it's just a pinch collar, for
> > > > > > > cripe's sake.
>
> > > > > > > > > What an odd thing to "standardize" when you promote weird tire sizes
> > > > > > > > > and shellacking bar tape.
>
> > > > > > > > The majority of tires Rivendell sells are 700 x 28 mm. I didn't know
> > > > > > > > that was a weird size. 650B has been an existing standard for nearly
> > > > > > > > 100 years, used in France, England, Sweden and other places. Just not
> > > > > > > > much in the US which is, thankfully, not the center of the universe
> > > > > > > > despite our pretensions to the contrary. You might think it's weird,
> > > > > > > > but in a fair amount of the world it isn't.
>
> > > > > > > It's weird. Look, I rode Swedish 28" roadsters and Monark folders with
> > > > > > > who knows what size tires when I was young--they were common in
> > > > > > > Sweden. Here such sizes are odd. But your argument is about as empty
> > > > > > > as promoting Dunlop valves, because they're simple technology beloved
> > > > > > > by a billion people in Asia and the subcontinent.
>
> > > > > > > > More people in the world use the 28 x 1 1/2 (635 mm) size than use the
> > > > > > > > 559, 622 or 630 mm sizes. In much of the world your 700C wheels would
> > > > > > > > be considered weird. Better stay home so you don't have to worry about
> > > > > > > > these things. ;-)
>
> > > > > > > What a non-argument. If I was to set off on a world expedition, I'd
> > > > > > > simply use a 26" wheel bike. Such tires are available pretty much
> > > > > > > anywhere roadster tires are. If I was touring Europe, I'd stick to
> > > > > > > 700c. In the US, I'd not feel uncomfortable using even 27" wheels--
> > > > > > > because even Wally World will sell you a $10 27" tire when you're in
> > > > > > > the bowels of Alabama.
>
> > > > > > > 650B on a new build--by choice, instead of simply choosing a frame
> > > > > > > that can accomodate fat 700c or even 27", is pointless pretense.-
>
> > > > > > One could also make a case for 559mm/26" on a smallish frame.
>
> > > > > > 650B on a new build for a bicycle sold by a North American vendor for
> > > > > > use primarily in North America is a classic case of niche marketing to
> > > > > > benefit the vendor at the long term expense of the end user. Seems
> > > > > > pretty clear.
>
> > > > > > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+ local
> > > > > > bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even know what
> > > > > > you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special ordered", but that's
> > > > > > usually both an ordeal and an invitation to pay through the nose.
> > > > > > OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety of both 700C and 26" wheels
> > > > > > and tires *in stock*. And, of course, they can be easily ordered on
> > > > > > line at competitive discounted prices directly by the end user.
>
> > > > > A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires, will
> > > > > also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
>
> > > > Agree, for years I've been a big fan of Avocet tires. Their Avocet
> > > > Fasgrip City 26x1.25 is a great rolling tire. However, Avocet has the
> > > > worst distribution policy of any company and finding them has always
> > > > been a challenged. Further, it appears that Avocet has decided to
> > > > discontinue its 26" tires. What to do?
>
> > > > Looking around, I found a tire that offers probably 85-90% of the
> > > > performance of the above Avocet tire, at 1/3 the price!
>
> > > > Check out the Performance Forte City tire in 26x1.25, it is a true
> > > > slick tire that seems to roll "as well" as the Avocet and at the
> > > > current sale price of $8 each, regular price is $12, its a bargain:
>
> > > >http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=15304&subcategory...
>
> > > Not surprisingly, Nashbar has that same tire under their 'brand", too.
> > > Item NS-SBT in 26 x 1.25. Sometimes Nashbar is cheaper, sometimes
> > > Performance - it pays to check both, and generally, you'll pay an
> > > average of about $10. No pay-through-the-nose special orders
> > > needed! ;-)
>
> > I wouldn't call buying a $14 tire "paying-through-the-nose".
> > ie. 584mm Panaracer Col de la Vie
>
> Have you bought that tire for $14 from a shop that "special ordered"
> it for you?
No, I haven't. I thought we were comparing prices from online,
discount sources.
>Not many shops, AFAICT (exceptions exist, of course),
> stock 650B *anything*.
Agreed.
>
> In Hobbitville, they want $28 and up for 650B tires and - this is
> interesting - they note that "Bike shops don't generally stock them
> [650B tires] and most bike people haven't even heard of them." Doesn't
> sound like an easily/generally available item to me.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/8x658
>
> or:
>
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/8x658
>
Your right in that it is an inconvenience obtaining rims and tires in
the U.S. if you decide to use a wheel size different than 622mm or
559mm. Some, who often order parts online anyways, consider the
inconvenience trivial. Perhaps they just stock up on supplies while
they last.
|
| | | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 11:56:51
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 10, 1:20 pm, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Jul 10, 11:00 am, John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 10, 1:13 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > On Jul 10, 11:45 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 9, 8:25 am, John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Jul 9, 9:38 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Jul 9, 8:54 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > In article <1183947517.691793.215...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > > > > > > landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Jul 8, 9:05 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > In article <jam293dafkos3beo2o6nmb0umouud1r...@4ax.com>,
> > > > > > > > > > still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:54:40 -0500, Tim McNamara
> > > > > > > > > > > <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > >They don't stock M6 bolts? Maybe you should stop in and verify
> > > > > > > > > > > >this rather surprising assertion.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > M6? Yes. They have them in a lovely shade of red mostly. Might go
> > > > > > > > > > > nicely with some frames. But, I thought the Riv bolts were allen
> > > > > > > > > > > head on one side, recessed nut on the other. That suggests a need
> > > > > > > > > > > for a bolt with the "correct" size head.
>
> > > > > > > > > > Standard Allen bolt and standard hex nut.
> > > > > > > > > > Every hardware store should have them.
>
> > > > > > > > > Um, how many binder bolts have you broken?
>
> > > > > > > > Two. But that *is* in 40+ years of riding bikes. One was a Simplex
> > > > > > > > style bolt, the other was one of those newfangled collar things.
>
> > > > > > > > > The classic style is available at any shop for $5.
>
> > > > > > > > Which is great, if you break one near a bike shop. Outside of American
> > > > > > > > and European bike shops, standard seat post bolts are weird nonstandard
> > > > > > > > things.
>
> > > > > > > You can use any old bolt and a couple washers to get you to the next
> > > > > > > bike shop. It won't look good--but it's just a pinch collar, for
> > > > > > > cripe's sake.
>
> > > > > > > > > What an odd thing to "standardize" when you promote weird tire sizes
> > > > > > > > > and shellacking bar tape.
>
> > > > > > > > The majority of tires Rivendell sells are 700 x 28 mm. I didn't know
> > > > > > > > that was a weird size. 650B has been an existing standard for nearly
> > > > > > > > 100 years, used in France, England, Sweden and other places. Just not
> > > > > > > > much in the US which is, thankfully, not the center of the universe
> > > > > > > > despite our pretensions to the contrary. You might think it's weird,
> > > > > > > > but in a fair amount of the world it isn't.
>
> > > > > > > It's weird. Look, I rode Swedish 28" roadsters and Monark folders with
> > > > > > > who knows what size tires when I was young--they were common in
> > > > > > > Sweden. Here such sizes are odd. But your argument is about as empty
> > > > > > > as promoting Dunlop valves, because they're simple technology beloved
> > > > > > > by a billion people in Asia and the subcontinent.
>
> > > > > > > > More people in the world use the 28 x 1 1/2 (635 mm) size than use the
> > > > > > > > 559, 622 or 630 mm sizes. In much of the world your 700C wheels would
> > > > > > > > be considered weird. Better stay home so you don't have to worry about
> > > > > > > > these things. ;-)
>
> > > > > > > What a non-argument. If I was to set off on a world expedition, I'd
> > > > > > > simply use a 26" wheel bike. Such tires are available pretty much
> > > > > > > anywhere roadster tires are. If I was touring Europe, I'd stick to
> > > > > > > 700c. In the US, I'd not feel uncomfortable using even 27" wheels--
> > > > > > > because even Wally World will sell you a $10 27" tire when you're in
> > > > > > > the bowels of Alabama.
>
> > > > > > > 650B on a new build--by choice, instead of simply choosing a frame
> > > > > > > that can accomodate fat 700c or even 27", is pointless pretense.-
>
> > > > > > One could also make a case for 559mm/26" on a smallish frame.
>
> > > > > > 650B on a new build for a bicycle sold by a North American vendor for
> > > > > > use primarily in North America is a classic case of niche marketing to
> > > > > > benefit the vendor at the long term expense of the end user. Seems
> > > > > > pretty clear.
>
> > > > > > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+ local
> > > > > > bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even know what
> > > > > > you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special ordered", but that's
> > > > > > usually both an ordeal and an invitation to pay through the nose.
> > > > > > OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety of both 700C and 26" wheels
> > > > > > and tires *in stock*. And, of course, they can be easily ordered on
> > > > > > line at competitive discounted prices directly by the end user.
>
> > > > > A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires, will
> > > > > also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
>
> > > > Agree, for years I've been a big fan of Avocet tires. Their Avocet
> > > > Fasgrip City 26x1.25 is a great rolling tire. However, Avocet has the
> > > > worst distribution policy of any company and finding them has always
> > > > been a challenged. Further, it appears that Avocet has decided to
> > > > discontinue its 26" tires. What to do?
>
> > > > Looking around, I found a tire that offers probably 85-90% of the
> > > > performance of the above Avocet tire, at 1/3 the price!
>
> > > > Check out the Performance Forte City tire in 26x1.25, it is a true
> > > > slick tire that seems to roll "as well" as the Avocet and at the
> > > > current sale price of $8 each, regular price is $12, its a bargain:
>
> > > >http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=15304&subcategory...
>
> > > Not surprisingly, Nashbar has that same tire under their 'brand", too.
> > > Item NS-SBT in 26 x 1.25. Sometimes Nashbar is cheaper, sometimes
> > > Performance - it pays to check both, and generally, you'll pay an
> > > average of about $10. No pay-through-the-nose special orders
> > > needed! ;-)
>
> > I wouldn't call buying a $14 tire "paying-through-the-nose".
> > ie. 584mm Panaracer Col de la Vie
>
> No, the 584mm Panaracer CdlV is priced well. However, it is my
> understanding that the CdlV tire did not test well in the Vintage
> Bicycle Quarterly tire test. Note, the two Rivendell 650B tires also
> didn't test well. Further, there were some/many on the ibob list who
> said it wasn't very responsive.
>
> The 650B tire that did shine was the Mitsuboshi Trimline, which I
> believed retailed for something like $30-35 each. However, that tire
> was discontinued. Go figure.
>
> Many on the ibob list have stated that the new *hot* 650B tire is the
> 584x30 or 32 Gran Bois. Supposedly, it has a very low rolling
> resistance and has been tested to be *as fast* as the 700x23 tires
> tested. However, two things about this tire. First, it is priced at
> about $50 each, not exactly a bargain. Further, at 30 or 32mm wide,
> its not as fat as the CdlV or the now discontinued Mitsuboshi Trimline
> which I believer were both 35-38mm wide.
>
> So, does anyone know if this *fast* Gran Bois tire provide the same
> legendary comfort that 650B is famous for?-
Legend: an unverified story handed down from earlier times; a
romanticized or popularized myth.
http://tinyurl.com/2toa8h
or;
http://preview.tinyurl.com/2toa8h
Right on target!
|
| | | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 11:42:30
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 10, 1:00 pm, John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 10, 1:13 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 10, 11:45 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 9, 8:25 am, John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Jul 9, 9:38 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Jul 9, 8:54 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > In article <1183947517.691793.215...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > > > > > landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Jul 8, 9:05 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > In article <jam293dafkos3beo2o6nmb0umouud1r...@4ax.com>,
> > > > > > > > > still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:54:40 -0500, Tim McNamara
> > > > > > > > > > <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > >They don't stock M6 bolts? Maybe you should stop in and verify
> > > > > > > > > > >this rather surprising assertion.
>
> > > > > > > > > > M6? Yes. They have them in a lovely shade of red mostly. Might go
> > > > > > > > > > nicely with some frames. But, I thought the Riv bolts were allen
> > > > > > > > > > head on one side, recessed nut on the other. That suggests a need
> > > > > > > > > > for a bolt with the "correct" size head.
>
> > > > > > > > > Standard Allen bolt and standard hex nut.
> > > > > > > > > Every hardware store should have them.
>
> > > > > > > > Um, how many binder bolts have you broken?
>
> > > > > > > Two. But that *is* in 40+ years of riding bikes. One was a Simplex
> > > > > > > style bolt, the other was one of those newfangled collar things.
>
> > > > > > > > The classic style is available at any shop for $5.
>
> > > > > > > Which is great, if you break one near a bike shop. Outside of American
> > > > > > > and European bike shops, standard seat post bolts are weird nonstandard
> > > > > > > things.
>
> > > > > > You can use any old bolt and a couple washers to get you to the next
> > > > > > bike shop. It won't look good--but it's just a pinch collar, for
> > > > > > cripe's sake.
>
> > > > > > > > What an odd thing to "standardize" when you promote weird tire sizes
> > > > > > > > and shellacking bar tape.
>
> > > > > > > The majority of tires Rivendell sells are 700 x 28 mm. I didn't know
> > > > > > > that was a weird size. 650B has been an existing standard for nearly
> > > > > > > 100 years, used in France, England, Sweden and other places. Just not
> > > > > > > much in the US which is, thankfully, not the center of the universe
> > > > > > > despite our pretensions to the contrary. You might think it's weird,
> > > > > > > but in a fair amount of the world it isn't.
>
> > > > > > It's weird. Look, I rode Swedish 28" roadsters and Monark folders with
> > > > > > who knows what size tires when I was young--they were common in
> > > > > > Sweden. Here such sizes are odd. But your argument is about as empty
> > > > > > as promoting Dunlop valves, because they're simple technology beloved
> > > > > > by a billion people in Asia and the subcontinent.
>
> > > > > > > More people in the world use the 28 x 1 1/2 (635 mm) size than use the
> > > > > > > 559, 622 or 630 mm sizes. In much of the world your 700C wheels would
> > > > > > > be considered weird. Better stay home so you don't have to worry about
> > > > > > > these things. ;-)
>
> > > > > > What a non-argument. If I was to set off on a world expedition, I'd
> > > > > > simply use a 26" wheel bike. Such tires are available pretty much
> > > > > > anywhere roadster tires are. If I was touring Europe, I'd stick to
> > > > > > 700c. In the US, I'd not feel uncomfortable using even 27" wheels--
> > > > > > because even Wally World will sell you a $10 27" tire when you're in
> > > > > > the bowels of Alabama.
>
> > > > > > 650B on a new build--by choice, instead of simply choosing a frame
> > > > > > that can accomodate fat 700c or even 27", is pointless pretense.-
>
> > > > > One could also make a case for 559mm/26" on a smallish frame.
>
> > > > > 650B on a new build for a bicycle sold by a North American vendor for
> > > > > use primarily in North America is a classic case of niche marketing to
> > > > > benefit the vendor at the long term expense of the end user. Seems
> > > > > pretty clear.
>
> > > > > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+ local
> > > > > bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even know what
> > > > > you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special ordered", but that's
> > > > > usually both an ordeal and an invitation to pay through the nose.
> > > > > OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety of both 700C and 26" wheels
> > > > > and tires *in stock*. And, of course, they can be easily ordered on
> > > > > line at competitive discounted prices directly by the end user.
>
> > > > A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires, will
> > > > also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
>
> > > Agree, for years I've been a big fan of Avocet tires. Their Avocet
> > > Fasgrip City 26x1.25 is a great rolling tire. However, Avocet has the
> > > worst distribution policy of any company and finding them has always
> > > been a challenged. Further, it appears that Avocet has decided to
> > > discontinue its 26" tires. What to do?
>
> > > Looking around, I found a tire that offers probably 85-90% of the
> > > performance of the above Avocet tire, at 1/3 the price!
>
> > > Check out the Performance Forte City tire in 26x1.25, it is a true
> > > slick tire that seems to roll "as well" as the Avocet and at the
> > > current sale price of $8 each, regular price is $12, its a bargain:
>
> > >http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=15304&subcategory...
>
> > Not surprisingly, Nashbar has that same tire under their 'brand", too.
> > Item NS-SBT in 26 x 1.25. Sometimes Nashbar is cheaper, sometimes
> > Performance - it pays to check both, and generally, you'll pay an
> > average of about $10. No pay-through-the-nose special orders
> > needed! ;-)
>
> I wouldn't call buying a $14 tire "paying-through-the-nose".
> ie. 584mm Panaracer Col de la Vie
Have you bought that tire for $14 from a shop that "special ordered"
it for you? Not many shops, AFAICT (exceptions exist, of course),
stock 650B *anything*.
In Hobbitville, they want $28 and up for 650B tires and - this is
interesting - they note that "Bike shops don't generally stock them
[650B tires] and most bike people haven't even heard of them." Doesn't
sound like an easily/generally available item to me.
http://tinyurl.com/8x658
or:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/8x658
>
|
| | | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 11:27:58
From: Joe Bernard
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 10, 11:00 am, John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 10, 1:13 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 10, 11:45 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 9, 8:25 am, John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Jul 9, 9:38 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Jul 9, 8:54 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > In article <1183947517.691793.215...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > > > > > landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Jul 8, 9:05 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > In article <jam293dafkos3beo2o6nmb0umouud1r...@4ax.com>,
> > > > > > > > > still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:54:40 -0500, Tim McNamara
> > > > > > > > > > <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > >They don't stock M6 bolts? Maybe you should stop in and verify
> > > > > > > > > > >this rather surprising assertion.
>
> > > > > > > > > > M6? Yes. They have them in a lovely shade of red mostly. Might go
> > > > > > > > > > nicely with some frames. But, I thought the Riv bolts were allen
> > > > > > > > > > head on one side, recessed nut on the other. That suggests a need
> > > > > > > > > > for a bolt with the "correct" size head.
>
> > > > > > > > > Standard Allen bolt and standard hex nut.
> > > > > > > > > Every hardware store should have them.
>
> > > > > > > > Um, how many binder bolts have you broken?
>
> > > > > > > Two. But that *is* in 40+ years of riding bikes. One was a Simplex
> > > > > > > style bolt, the other was one of those newfangled collar things.
>
> > > > > > > > The classic style is available at any shop for $5.
>
> > > > > > > Which is great, if you break one near a bike shop. Outside of American
> > > > > > > and European bike shops, standard seat post bolts are weird nonstandard
> > > > > > > things.
>
> > > > > > You can use any old bolt and a couple washers to get you to the next
> > > > > > bike shop. It won't look good--but it's just a pinch collar, for
> > > > > > cripe's sake.
>
> > > > > > > > What an odd thing to "standardize" when you promote weird tire sizes
> > > > > > > > and shellacking bar tape.
>
> > > > > > > The majority of tires Rivendell sells are 700 x 28 mm. I didn't know
> > > > > > > that was a weird size. 650B has been an existing standard for nearly
> > > > > > > 100 years, used in France, England, Sweden and other places. Just not
> > > > > > > much in the US which is, thankfully, not the center of the universe
> > > > > > > despite our pretensions to the contrary. You might think it's weird,
> > > > > > > but in a fair amount of the world it isn't.
>
> > > > > > It's weird. Look, I rode Swedish 28" roadsters and Monark folders with
> > > > > > who knows what size tires when I was young--they were common in
> > > > > > Sweden. Here such sizes are odd. But your argument is about as empty
> > > > > > as promoting Dunlop valves, because they're simple technology beloved
> > > > > > by a billion people in Asia and the subcontinent.
>
> > > > > > > More people in the world use the 28 x 1 1/2 (635 mm) size than use the
> > > > > > > 559, 622 or 630 mm sizes. In much of the world your 700C wheels would
> > > > > > > be considered weird. Better stay home so you don't have to worry about
> > > > > > > these things. ;-)
>
> > > > > > What a non-argument. If I was to set off on a world expedition, I'd
> > > > > > simply use a 26" wheel bike. Such tires are available pretty much
> > > > > > anywhere roadster tires are. If I was touring Europe, I'd stick to
> > > > > > 700c. In the US, I'd not feel uncomfortable using even 27" wheels--
> > > > > > because even Wally World will sell you a $10 27" tire when you're in
> > > > > > the bowels of Alabama.
>
> > > > > > 650B on a new build--by choice, instead of simply choosing a frame
> > > > > > that can accomodate fat 700c or even 27", is pointless pretense.-
>
> > > > > One could also make a case for 559mm/26" on a smallish frame.
>
> > > > > 650B on a new build for a bicycle sold by a North American vendor for
> > > > > use primarily in North America is a classic case of niche marketing to
> > > > > benefit the vendor at the long term expense of the end user. Seems
> > > > > pretty clear.
>
> > > > > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+ local
> > > > > bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even know what
> > > > > you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special ordered", but that's
> > > > > usually both an ordeal and an invitation to pay through the nose.
> > > > > OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety of both 700C and 26" wheels
> > > > > and tires *in stock*. And, of course, they can be easily ordered on
> > > > > line at competitive discounted prices directly by the end user.
>
> > > > A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires, will
> > > > also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
>
> > > Agree, for years I've been a big fan of Avocet tires. Their Avocet
> > > Fasgrip City 26x1.25 is a great rolling tire. However, Avocet has the
> > > worst distribution policy of any company and finding them has always
> > > been a challenged. Further, it appears that Avocet has decided to
> > > discontinue its 26" tires. What to do?
>
> > > Looking around, I found a tire that offers probably 85-90% of the
> > > performance of the above Avocet tire, at 1/3 the price!
>
> > > Check out the Performance Forte City tire in 26x1.25, it is a true
> > > slick tire that seems to roll "as well" as the Avocet and at the
> > > current sale price of $8 each, regular price is $12, its a bargain:
>
> > >http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=15304&subcategory...
>
> > Not surprisingly, Nashbar has that same tire under their 'brand", too.
> > Item NS-SBT in 26 x 1.25. Sometimes Nashbar is cheaper, sometimes
> > Performance - it pays to check both, and generally, you'll pay an
> > average of about $10. No pay-through-the-nose special orders
> > needed! ;-)
>
> I wouldn't call buying a $14 tire "paying-through-the-nose".
> ie. 584mm Panaracer Col de la Vie
>
> However, I imagine the price of 584mm tires could rise exponentially
> if all decent tires of this size were discontinued; similar to 622mm
> Mavic MA2 rims and 622mm tan walled Avocet FasGrip tires.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Seeing as how this thread started with 650B on MTBs, I have a
question. I think this wheel is good slightly-smaller alternative to
700c, but, what's the point in the dirt? I don't like 26" for road
riding, but, it's fine off road. MTB frames are smaller than their
road counterparts and I think must be easier to design around smaller
wheels. What's the advantage of 650 or, for that matter, 29ers?
|
| | | | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 16:59:36
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
In article <1184092078.838138.9880@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com >,
Joe Bernard <josephrbernard@sbcglobal.net > wrote:
> Seeing as how this thread started with 650B on MTBs, I have a
> question. I think this wheel is good slightly-smaller alternative to
> 700c, but, what's the point in the dirt? I don't like 26" for road
> riding, but, it's fine off road. MTB frames are smaller than their
> road counterparts and I think must be easier to design around smaller
> wheels. What's the advantage of 650 or, for that matter, 29ers?
I'm not convinced that 29ers have an advantage and some testing I recall
reading (maybe cyclingnews.com) found that riders were slower on the 29"
wheels than the standard 26" wheels. I've not ridden 650B offroad so I
don't have a comparison.
I always found my 700 x 28 cyclo-cross tires to be more than adequate
for off-road riding locally. We don't have epically gnarly trails
around here- even the most challenging trails are pretty tame.
|
| | | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 11:20:28
From: bfd
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 10, 11:00 am, John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 10, 1:13 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 10, 11:45 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 9, 8:25 am, John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Jul 9, 9:38 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Jul 9, 8:54 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > In article <1183947517.691793.215...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > > > > > landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Jul 8, 9:05 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > In article <jam293dafkos3beo2o6nmb0umouud1r...@4ax.com>,
> > > > > > > > > still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:54:40 -0500, Tim McNamara
> > > > > > > > > > <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > >They don't stock M6 bolts? Maybe you should stop in and verify
> > > > > > > > > > >this rather surprising assertion.
>
> > > > > > > > > > M6? Yes. They have them in a lovely shade of red mostly. Might go
> > > > > > > > > > nicely with some frames. But, I thought the Riv bolts were allen
> > > > > > > > > > head on one side, recessed nut on the other. That suggests a need
> > > > > > > > > > for a bolt with the "correct" size head.
>
> > > > > > > > > Standard Allen bolt and standard hex nut.
> > > > > > > > > Every hardware store should have them.
>
> > > > > > > > Um, how many binder bolts have you broken?
>
> > > > > > > Two. But that *is* in 40+ years of riding bikes. One was a Simplex
> > > > > > > style bolt, the other was one of those newfangled collar things.
>
> > > > > > > > The classic style is available at any shop for $5.
>
> > > > > > > Which is great, if you break one near a bike shop. Outside of American
> > > > > > > and European bike shops, standard seat post bolts are weird nonstandard
> > > > > > > things.
>
> > > > > > You can use any old bolt and a couple washers to get you to the next
> > > > > > bike shop. It won't look good--but it's just a pinch collar, for
> > > > > > cripe's sake.
>
> > > > > > > > What an odd thing to "standardize" when you promote weird tire sizes
> > > > > > > > and shellacking bar tape.
>
> > > > > > > The majority of tires Rivendell sells are 700 x 28 mm. I didn't know
> > > > > > > that was a weird size. 650B has been an existing standard for nearly
> > > > > > > 100 years, used in France, England, Sweden and other places. Just not
> > > > > > > much in the US which is, thankfully, not the center of the universe
> > > > > > > despite our pretensions to the contrary. You might think it's weird,
> > > > > > > but in a fair amount of the world it isn't.
>
> > > > > > It's weird. Look, I rode Swedish 28" roadsters and Monark folders with
> > > > > > who knows what size tires when I was young--they were common in
> > > > > > Sweden. Here such sizes are odd. But your argument is about as empty
> > > > > > as promoting Dunlop valves, because they're simple technology beloved
> > > > > > by a billion people in Asia and the subcontinent.
>
> > > > > > > More people in the world use the 28 x 1 1/2 (635 mm) size than use the
> > > > > > > 559, 622 or 630 mm sizes. In much of the world your 700C wheels would
> > > > > > > be considered weird. Better stay home so you don't have to worry about
> > > > > > > these things. ;-)
>
> > > > > > What a non-argument. If I was to set off on a world expedition, I'd
> > > > > > simply use a 26" wheel bike. Such tires are available pretty much
> > > > > > anywhere roadster tires are. If I was touring Europe, I'd stick to
> > > > > > 700c. In the US, I'd not feel uncomfortable using even 27" wheels--
> > > > > > because even Wally World will sell you a $10 27" tire when you're in
> > > > > > the bowels of Alabama.
>
> > > > > > 650B on a new build--by choice, instead of simply choosing a frame
> > > > > > that can accomodate fat 700c or even 27", is pointless pretense.-
>
> > > > > One could also make a case for 559mm/26" on a smallish frame.
>
> > > > > 650B on a new build for a bicycle sold by a North American vendor for
> > > > > use primarily in North America is a classic case of niche marketing to
> > > > > benefit the vendor at the long term expense of the end user. Seems
> > > > > pretty clear.
>
> > > > > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+ local
> > > > > bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even know what
> > > > > you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special ordered", but that's
> > > > > usually both an ordeal and an invitation to pay through the nose.
> > > > > OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety of both 700C and 26" wheels
> > > > > and tires *in stock*. And, of course, they can be easily ordered on
> > > > > line at competitive discounted prices directly by the end user.
>
> > > > A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires, will
> > > > also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
>
> > > Agree, for years I've been a big fan of Avocet tires. Their Avocet
> > > Fasgrip City 26x1.25 is a great rolling tire. However, Avocet has the
> > > worst distribution policy of any company and finding them has always
> > > been a challenged. Further, it appears that Avocet has decided to
> > > discontinue its 26" tires. What to do?
>
> > > Looking around, I found a tire that offers probably 85-90% of the
> > > performance of the above Avocet tire, at 1/3 the price!
>
> > > Check out the Performance Forte City tire in 26x1.25, it is a true
> > > slick tire that seems to roll "as well" as the Avocet and at the
> > > current sale price of $8 each, regular price is $12, its a bargain:
>
> > >http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=15304&subcategory...
>
> > Not surprisingly, Nashbar has that same tire under their 'brand", too.
> > Item NS-SBT in 26 x 1.25. Sometimes Nashbar is cheaper, sometimes
> > Performance - it pays to check both, and generally, you'll pay an
> > average of about $10. No pay-through-the-nose special orders
> > needed! ;-)
>
> I wouldn't call buying a $14 tire "paying-through-the-nose".
> ie. 584mm Panaracer Col de la Vie
>
No, the 584mm Panaracer CdlV is priced well. However, it is my
understanding that the CdlV tire did not test well in the Vintage
Bicycle Quarterly tire test. Note, the two Rivendell 650B tires also
didn't test well. Further, there were some/many on the ibob list who
said it wasn't very responsive.
The 650B tire that did shine was the Mitsuboshi Trimline, which I
believed retailed for something like $30-35 each. However, that tire
was discontinued. Go figure.
Many on the ibob list have stated that the new *hot* 650B tire is the
584x30 or 32 Gran Bois. Supposedly, it has a very low rolling
resistance and has been tested to be *as fast* as the 700x23 tires
tested. However, two things about this tire. First, it is priced at
about $50 each, not exactly a bargain. Further, at 30 or 32mm wide,
its not as fat as the CdlV or the now discontinued Mitsuboshi Trimline
which I believer were both 35-38mm wide.
So, does anyone know if this *fast* Gran Bois tire provide the same
legendary comfort that 650B is famous for?
|
| | | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 23:28:28
From: Joe Bernard
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 9, 9:42 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net > wrote:
> In article <1184031455.616182.317...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> Joe Bernard <josephrbern...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > It seems to be my week for explaining myself. I bought this frame
> > > from Rivendell in 1996. At that time all the All-Rounders came
> > > with 26" wheels; later on these wheels were only used on smaller
> > > frames and 700C wheels were used on the larger frames. It was my
> > > mountain bike for several years (hence the choice of this frame
> > > rather than a road frame) and has been converted into my primary
> > > bike for brevets and touring. You can see the bike here:
>
> > >http://www2.bitstream.net/~timmcn/tour2000.html
>
> > > I use the Panaracer Pasela 26 x 1.25 which has been an excellent
> > > tire so far.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > And The Hobbit says [again], 650B is for smallish frames with fat
> > tires and fenders without a lot of toe-clip overlap for people who
> > know the truth: 26" wheels are slow on pavement.
>
> Until I got the Paselas, I've have agreed with you but no longer. I
> tried a bunch of different tires over the past 11 years and found that
> my average speeds were about 1 mph slower over the same rolling to hilly
> routes as on my 700C bikes at the same perceived effort. With the
> Paselas there is no difference according to my cycle computers
> (calibrated by roll-out). The All-Rounder rolls just as well on these
> tires as my road bikes with 700 x 25s.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well then, Ozark's got it all worked out and I'm an idiot. That's OK,
I'm married. I'm used to it. Ozark wins again!
|
| | | | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 09:25:16
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
"Joe Bernard" <josephrbernard@sbcglobal.net > wrote in message
news:1184048908.787761.177480@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
<snip >
>
> Well then, Ozark's got it all worked out and I'm an idiot. That's OK,
> I'm married. I'm used to it. Ozark wins again!
>
"Hmmph! FINE!" ( a dangerous word coming from the little lady... )
;-)
Chas.
|
| | | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 19:48:07
From: Joe Bernard
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 9, 7:07 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jul 9, 8:37 pm, Joe Bernard <josephrbern...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 9, 5:49 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > In article <1395fnqc09qr...@corp.supernews.com>,
>
> > > "G.T." <getne...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> > > > "Tim McNamara" <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote in message
> > > >news:timmcn-E25EA1.15071009072007@news.iphouse.com...
> > > > > In article <1183994705.366163.140...@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > >> On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
> > > > >> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>
> > > > >> > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+
> > > > >> > local bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even
> > > > >> > know what you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special
> > > > >> > ordered", but that's usually both an ordeal and an invitation to
> > > > >> > pay through the nose. OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety
> > > > >> > of both 700C and 26" wheels and tires *in stock*. And, of
> > > > >> > course, they can be easily ordered on line at competitive
> > > > >> > discounted prices directly by the end user.
>
> > > > >> A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires,
> > > > >> will also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
>
> > > > > One of my bikes (a Rivendell All-Rounder) is a largish frame (60
> > > > > cm) with 26" wheels.
>
> > > > A 60cm with 26" wheels? For a large frame I see zero reason to run
> > > > 559 or even 584. I couldn't find decent tires for my 559 equipped
> > > > road bike and with Specialized 26x1.25" tires I had on it the ride
> > > > was much more rattly than my 622 and 630 equipped bikes so that frame
> > > > is currently on the wall of my garage awaiting a repurposing. Hell,
> > > > I can fit 52mm front, and 44mm rear tires on my Soma so as a tall
> > > > rider why in the world would I want to stick myself with 584 or 559
> > > > wheels?
>
> > > It seems to be my week for explaining myself. I bought this frame from
> > > Rivendell in 1996. At that time all the All-Rounders came with 26"
> > > wheels; later on these wheels were only used on smaller frames and 700C
> > > wheels were used on the larger frames. It was my mountain bike for
> > > several years (hence the choice of this frame rather than a road frame)
> > > and has been converted into my primary bike for brevets and touring.
> > > You can see the bike here:
>
> > >http://www2.bitstream.net/~timmcn/tour2000.html
>
> > > I use the Panaracer Pasela 26 x 1.25 which has been an excellent tire so
> > > far.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > And The Hobbit says [again], 650B is for smallish frames with fat
> > tires and fenders without a lot of toe-clip overlap for people who
> > know the truth: 26" wheels are slow on pavement.
>
> "the truth: 26" wheels are slow on pavement"? Do you have objective
> data to confirm this? I'd be especially interested in seeing the data
> on the diff of 559mm v. 584mm with similar/identical cross section
> tires.
>
> Don't hold back! ;-)
>
>
>
> > And The Hobbit says, as pertains to the 603 boondoggle: It wasn't a
> > joke, but, it's a stupid idea. I like Grant, I like his designs, but,
> > he *is* half bonkers.-
>
> Well, ain't *that* "the truth"!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Objective data? What objective data? We don't need no OBJECTIVE DATA.
It's just my subjective data, dude. I've ridden 559, 584 and 622, and
I find I can feel the gyroscopic effect of the bigger wheels keeping
some momentum as I back off the pedals, whereas with the 26-inchers,
it feels like you're constantly pushing on them to keep them going.
C'mon, everybody knows that!
|
| | | | |
Date: 11 Jul 2007 00:37:14
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
In article
<1184035687.692217.218790@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com >
,
Joe Bernard <josephrbernard@sbcglobal.net > wrote:
> On Jul 9, 7:07 pm, Ozark Bicycle
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 9, 8:37 pm, Joe Bernard <josephrbern...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jul 9, 5:49 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> >
> > > > In article <1395fnqc09qr...@corp.supernews.com>,
> >
> > > > "G.T." <getne...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> > > > > "Tim McNamara" <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote in message
> > > > >news:timmcn-E25EA1.15071009072007@news.iphouse.com...
> > > > > > In article <1183994705.366163.140...@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > > John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > >> On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
> > > > > >> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > >> > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+
> > > > > >> > local bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even
> > > > > >> > know what you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special
> > > > > >> > ordered", but that's usually both an ordeal and an invitation to
> > > > > >> > pay through the nose. OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety
> > > > > >> > of both 700C and 26" wheels and tires *in stock*. And, of
> > > > > >> > course, they can be easily ordered on line at competitive
> > > > > >> > discounted prices directly by the end user.
> >
> > > > > >> A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires,
> > > > > >> will also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
> >
> > > > > > One of my bikes (a Rivendell All-Rounder) is a largish frame (60
> > > > > > cm) with 26" wheels.
> >
> > > > > A 60cm with 26" wheels? For a large frame I see zero reason to run
> > > > > 559 or even 584. I couldn't find decent tires for my 559 equipped
> > > > > road bike and with Specialized 26x1.25" tires I had on it the ride
> > > > > was much more rattly than my 622 and 630 equipped bikes so that frame
> > > > > is currently on the wall of my garage awaiting a repurposing. Hell,
> > > > > I can fit 52mm front, and 44mm rear tires on my Soma so as a tall
> > > > > rider why in the world would I want to stick myself with 584 or 559
> > > > > wheels?
> >
> > > > It seems to be my week for explaining myself. I bought this frame from
> > > > Rivendell in 1996. At that time all the All-Rounders came with 26"
> > > > wheels; later on these wheels were only used on smaller frames and 700C
> > > > wheels were used on the larger frames. It was my mountain bike for
> > > > several years (hence the choice of this frame rather than a road frame)
> > > > and has been converted into my primary bike for brevets and touring.
> > > > You can see the bike here:
> >
> > > >http://www2.bitstream.net/~timmcn/tour2000.html
> >
> > > > I use the Panaracer Pasela 26 x 1.25 which has been an excellent tire so
> > > > far.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > > > - Show quoted text -
> >
> > > And The Hobbit says [again], 650B is for smallish frames with fat
> > > tires and fenders without a lot of toe-clip overlap for people who
> > > know the truth: 26" wheels are slow on pavement.
> >
> > "the truth: 26" wheels are slow on pavement"? Do you have objective
> > data to confirm this? I'd be especially interested in seeing the data
> > on the diff of 559mm v. 584mm with similar/identical cross section
> > tires.
> >
> > Don't hold back! ;-)
> >
> >
> >
> > > And The Hobbit says, as pertains to the 603 boondoggle: It wasn't a
> > > joke, but, it's a stupid idea. I like Grant, I like his designs, but,
> > > he *is* half bonkers.-
> >
> > Well, ain't *that* "the truth"!- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Objective data? What objective data? We don't need no OBJECTIVE DATA.
> It's just my subjective data, dude. I've ridden 559, 584 and 622, and
> I find I can feel the gyroscopic effect of the bigger wheels keeping
> some momentum as I back off the pedals, whereas with the 26-inchers,
> it feels like you're constantly pushing on them to keep them going.
> C'mon, everybody knows that!
IT'S TRUE! My 630 wheels are even faster.
--
Michael Press
|
| | | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 19:07:53
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 9, 8:37 pm, Joe Bernard <josephrbern...@sbcglobal.net > wrote:
> On Jul 9, 5:49 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <1395fnqc09qr...@corp.supernews.com>,
>
> > "G.T." <getne...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> > > "Tim McNamara" <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote in message
> > >news:timmcn-E25EA1.15071009072007@news.iphouse.com...
> > > > In article <1183994705.366163.140...@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
> > > >> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+
> > > >> > local bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even
> > > >> > know what you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special
> > > >> > ordered", but that's usually both an ordeal and an invitation to
> > > >> > pay through the nose. OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety
> > > >> > of both 700C and 26" wheels and tires *in stock*. And, of
> > > >> > course, they can be easily ordered on line at competitive
> > > >> > discounted prices directly by the end user.
>
> > > >> A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires,
> > > >> will also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
>
> > > > One of my bikes (a Rivendell All-Rounder) is a largish frame (60
> > > > cm) with 26" wheels.
>
> > > A 60cm with 26" wheels? For a large frame I see zero reason to run
> > > 559 or even 584. I couldn't find decent tires for my 559 equipped
> > > road bike and with Specialized 26x1.25" tires I had on it the ride
> > > was much more rattly than my 622 and 630 equipped bikes so that frame
> > > is currently on the wall of my garage awaiting a repurposing. Hell,
> > > I can fit 52mm front, and 44mm rear tires on my Soma so as a tall
> > > rider why in the world would I want to stick myself with 584 or 559
> > > wheels?
>
> > It seems to be my week for explaining myself. I bought this frame from
> > Rivendell in 1996. At that time all the All-Rounders came with 26"
> > wheels; later on these wheels were only used on smaller frames and 700C
> > wheels were used on the larger frames. It was my mountain bike for
> > several years (hence the choice of this frame rather than a road frame)
> > and has been converted into my primary bike for brevets and touring.
> > You can see the bike here:
>
> >http://www2.bitstream.net/~timmcn/tour2000.html
>
> > I use the Panaracer Pasela 26 x 1.25 which has been an excellent tire so
> > far.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> And The Hobbit says [again], 650B is for smallish frames with fat
> tires and fenders without a lot of toe-clip overlap for people who
> know the truth: 26" wheels are slow on pavement.
"the truth: 26" wheels are slow on pavement"? Do you have objective
data to confirm this? I'd be especially interested in seeing the data
on the diff of 559mm v. 584mm with similar/identical cross section
tires.
Don't hold back! ;-)
>
> And The Hobbit says, as pertains to the 603 boondoggle: It wasn't a
> joke, but, it's a stupid idea. I like Grant, I like his designs, but,
> he *is* half bonkers.-
Well, ain't *that* "the truth"!
|
| | | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 17:19:54
From: landotter
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 9, 11:32 am, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jul 9, 11:26 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 9, 10:42 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > On Jul 9, 10:33 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 9, 10:25 am, John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > > > > > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+ local
> > > > > > bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even know what
> > > > > > you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special ordered", but that's
> > > > > > usually both an ordeal and an invitation to pay through the nose.
> > > > > > OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety of both 700C and 26" wheels
> > > > > > and tires *in stock*. And, of course, they can be easily ordered on
> > > > > > line at competitive discounted prices directly by the end user.
>
> > > > > A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires, will
> > > > > also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
>
> > > > Let the little people bear their own crosses.
>
> > > You're a hard man, Mr. Landotter Who ! ;-)
>
> > Nah, it was literally their own choice. We had 100K holy rollers in
> > town this weekend for a squinty mega-prayer session at the coliseum--
> > and quite a few were actually bearing crosses while walking around
> > downtown. I'm not sure of the sizing system, but I'm guessing it's not
> > an off-the-shelf deal.-
>
> 100,000 bible bangers!?! Have any lightning storms?
Nah, just searing heat. I'm surprised nobody died, to be honest,
because a lot of the pilgrims had fasted pretty seriously before they
got all squinty and hated on people that enjoy copulation without
guilt.
Here, sign up for the next rally!
http://www.thecall.com/
>
> Maybe the Hobbits can convince the Mormons they need to ride around on
> 650B wheeled Rivs instead of those el cheapo MTBs?
Don't confuse tongue twisting charismatics with the funny underpants
people. Tsk tsk. Still, I respect them just a hair more than the
Jehovah's Witnesses that descend upon the neighborhood in white Town
Cars and the like. Riding a Wally World bike shows a modicum of
humility.
|
| | | | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 11:46:36
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
In article
<1184001594.796086.118170@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com >
,
landotter <landotter@gmail.com > wrote:
> Here, sign up for the next rally!
> http://www.thecall.com/
Hey, honey. How'd ya like to make $50 the hard way?
--
Michael Press
|
| | | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 09:32:13
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 9, 11:26 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 9, 10:42 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 9, 10:33 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 9, 10:25 am, John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > > > > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+ local
> > > > > bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even know what
> > > > > you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special ordered", but that's
> > > > > usually both an ordeal and an invitation to pay through the nose.
> > > > > OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety of both 700C and 26" wheels
> > > > > and tires *in stock*. And, of course, they can be easily ordered on
> > > > > line at competitive discounted prices directly by the end user.
>
> > > > A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires, will
> > > > also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
>
> > > Let the little people bear their own crosses.
>
> > You're a hard man, Mr. Landotter Who ! ;-)
>
> Nah, it was literally their own choice. We had 100K holy rollers in
> town this weekend for a squinty mega-prayer session at the coliseum--
> and quite a few were actually bearing crosses while walking around
> downtown. I'm not sure of the sizing system, but I'm guessing it's not
> an off-the-shelf deal.-
100,000 bible bangers!?! Have any lightning storms?
Maybe the Hobbits can convince the Mormons they need to ride around on
650B wheeled Rivs instead of those el cheapo MTBs?
|
| |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 15:17:22
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 7, 4:23 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 7, 3:07 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 7, 2:44 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 7, 2:32 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
>
> > > <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > landotter? wrote:
> > > > > On Jul 7, 11:42 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > >> The 650B movement is moving! According to Reknown Framebuilder Kirk
> > > > >> Pacenti, there is an interest by *8 or 9 BIG mfrs* to fill in the 26"
> > > > >> and 29er size tires with the new 27.5 inch size (that's reads: 650B to
> > > > >> many).
>
> > > > > What about the 600A size at 540mm? Think of all the stumpy people that
> > > > > want road bikes that could benefit from this size! Think of the
> > > > > children!!
>
> > > > We are introducing the ISO 626-mm tire to satisfy those discriminating
> > > > cyclists who find the ISO 622-mm (700C) too small, but the ISO 630-mm
> > > > (27-inch) too large.
>
> > > > Out next product will be a folder with ISO 352-mm wheels, which will
> > > > offer a significant advantage over the smaller ISO 349-mm Brompton
> > > > wheels while being much more compact than the Birdy with its ISO 355-mm
> > > > wheels.
>
> > > All silliness aside, there actually is a 600A size over there in Old
> > > Europe.-
>
> > And, believe it or not, the Hobbits are floating the idea of a 603mm
> > BSD wheel. Alot of folks thought this was a joke, but, apparently it
> > isn't!
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/32rgl5
>
> The Onion could not have topped that. Oh my.-
Hey, it's a way to sell yet another bike to the same small circle of
devotees, right?
|
| | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 20:47:09
From: Sheldon Brown
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
Someone wrote:
> Note, Gaerlan, gtgtandems andSheldon Brownstill offer 26" Avocet
> tires for those who are still interested.
Alas, I was just informed today that the last of the Avocet 559 mm (26
x [decimal]) FasGrip slicks are gone.
We still have Avocet's Cross tires, but they're not all that special.
The Schwalbe Kojak looks like a good substitute for the Avocets. I
haven't tried them though. (These days all of my riding is on
Greenspeed Scorchers, 349 mm (16 x [fraction]. They're great tires,
but don't come in larger sizes.)
Sheldon "Bald Is Beautiful" Brown
+-------------------------------------------+
|
| | | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 23:27:21
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
> Someone wrote:
>> Note, Gaerlan, gtgtandems andSheldon Brownstill offer 26" Avocet
>> tires for those who are still interested.
Sheldon Brown wrote:
> Alas, I was just informed today that the last of the Avocet 559 mm (26
> x [decimal]) FasGrip slicks are gone.
> We still have Avocet's Cross tires, but they're not all that special.
> The Schwalbe Kojak looks like a good substitute for the Avocets. I
> haven't tried them though. (These days all of my riding is on
> Greenspeed Scorchers, 349 mm (16 x [fraction]. They're great tires,
> but don't come in larger sizes.)
>
> Sheldon "Bald Is Beautiful" Brown
Were those made by IRC? Since IRC has closed there have been several
'niche' tires unavailable.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 15:26:02
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 10, 5:07 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 10, 2:33 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 10, 2:25 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 20:15:10 -0700, Michael Press wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > <timmcn-1A8986.16172408072...@news.iphouse.com>,
> > > > Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > >> Exactly. But people do, lots of the time. You'd think Grant Petersen
> > > >> was personally inoculating mosquitos with West Nile virus.
>
> > > > He is?
>
> > > The same way Jobst Brandt eats children.
>
> > Roasted in a 350F oven, 15 minutes per pound and served au jus?
>
> I always wondered about his collection of little shoes.-
And the lil' step stool in front of the oven?
|
| | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 14:00:33
From: bfd
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 10, 1:56 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net > wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:33:30 -0700, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > On Jul 10, 2:25 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 20:15:10 -0700, Michael Press wrote:
> >> > In article
> >> > <timmcn-1A8986.16172408072...@news.iphouse.com>,
> >> > Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> >> >> Exactly. But people do, lots of the time. You'd think Grant Petersen
> >> >> was personally inoculating mosquitos with West Nile virus.
>
> >> > He is?
>
> >> The same way Jobst Brandt eats children.
>
> > Roasted in a 350F oven, 15 minutes per pound and served au jus?
>
> Please. That's 177 C, 30 minutes per kilo. Serve with a good Bordeaux.
>
A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava
beans and a nice Chianti. - Silence of the Lamb
|
| | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 18:00:33
From: John
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 10, 1:13 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jul 10, 11:45 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 9, 8:25 am, John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > On Jul 9, 9:38 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jul 9, 8:54 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > In article <1183947517.691793.215...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > > > > landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Jul 8, 9:05 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > In article <jam293dafkos3beo2o6nmb0umouud1r...@4ax.com>,
> > > > > > > > still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:54:40 -0500, Tim McNamara
> > > > > > > > > <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > >They don't stock M6 bolts? Maybe you should stop in and verify
> > > > > > > > > >this rather surprising assertion.
>
> > > > > > > > > M6? Yes. They have them in a lovely shade of red mostly. Might go
> > > > > > > > > nicely with some frames. But, I thought the Riv bolts were allen
> > > > > > > > > head on one side, recessed nut on the other. That suggests a need
> > > > > > > > > for a bolt with the "correct" size head.
>
> > > > > > > > Standard Allen bolt and standard hex nut.
> > > > > > > > Every hardware store should have them.
>
> > > > > > > Um, how many binder bolts have you broken?
>
> > > > > > Two. But that *is* in 40+ years of riding bikes. One was a Simplex
> > > > > > style bolt, the other was one of those newfangled collar things.
>
> > > > > > > The classic style is available at any shop for $5.
>
> > > > > > Which is great, if you break one near a bike shop. Outside of American
> > > > > > and European bike shops, standard seat post bolts are weird nonstandard
> > > > > > things.
>
> > > > > You can use any old bolt and a couple washers to get you to the next
> > > > > bike shop. It won't look good--but it's just a pinch collar, for
> > > > > cripe's sake.
>
> > > > > > > What an odd thing to "standardize" when you promote weird tire sizes
> > > > > > > and shellacking bar tape.
>
> > > > > > The majority of tires Rivendell sells are 700 x 28 mm. I didn't know
> > > > > > that was a weird size. 650B has been an existing standard for nearly
> > > > > > 100 years, used in France, England, Sweden and other places. Just not
> > > > > > much in the US which is, thankfully, not the center of the universe
> > > > > > despite our pretensions to the contrary. You might think it's weird,
> > > > > > but in a fair amount of the world it isn't.
>
> > > > > It's weird. Look, I rode Swedish 28" roadsters and Monark folders with
> > > > > who knows what size tires when I was young--they were common in
> > > > > Sweden. Here such sizes are odd. But your argument is about as empty
> > > > > as promoting Dunlop valves, because they're simple technology beloved
> > > > > by a billion people in Asia and the subcontinent.
>
> > > > > > More people in the world use the 28 x 1 1/2 (635 mm) size than use the
> > > > > > 559, 622 or 630 mm sizes. In much of the world your 700C wheels would
> > > > > > be considered weird. Better stay home so you don't have to worry about
> > > > > > these things. ;-)
>
> > > > > What a non-argument. If I was to set off on a world expedition, I'd
> > > > > simply use a 26" wheel bike. Such tires are available pretty much
> > > > > anywhere roadster tires are. If I was touring Europe, I'd stick to
> > > > > 700c. In the US, I'd not feel uncomfortable using even 27" wheels--
> > > > > because even Wally World will sell you a $10 27" tire when you're in
> > > > > the bowels of Alabama.
>
> > > > > 650B on a new build--by choice, instead of simply choosing a frame
> > > > > that can accomodate fat 700c or even 27", is pointless pretense.-
>
> > > > One could also make a case for 559mm/26" on a smallish frame.
>
> > > > 650B on a new build for a bicycle sold by a North American vendor for
> > > > use primarily in North America is a classic case of niche marketing to
> > > > benefit the vendor at the long term expense of the end user. Seems
> > > > pretty clear.
>
> > > > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+ local
> > > > bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even know what
> > > > you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special ordered", but that's
> > > > usually both an ordeal and an invitation to pay through the nose.
> > > > OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety of both 700C and 26" wheels
> > > > and tires *in stock*. And, of course, they can be easily ordered on
> > > > line at competitive discounted prices directly by the end user.
>
> > > A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires, will
> > > also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
>
> > Agree, for years I've been a big fan of Avocet tires. Their Avocet
> > Fasgrip City 26x1.25 is a great rolling tire. However, Avocet has the
> > worst distribution policy of any company and finding them has always
> > been a challenged. Further, it appears that Avocet has decided to
> > discontinue its 26" tires. What to do?
>
> > Looking around, I found a tire that offers probably 85-90% of the
> > performance of the above Avocet tire, at 1/3 the price!
>
> > Check out the Performance Forte City tire in 26x1.25, it is a true
> > slick tire that seems to roll "as well" as the Avocet and at the
> > current sale price of $8 each, regular price is $12, its a bargain:
>
> >http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=15304&subcategory...
>
> Not surprisingly, Nashbar has that same tire under their 'brand", too.
> Item NS-SBT in 26 x 1.25. Sometimes Nashbar is cheaper, sometimes
> Performance - it pays to check both, and generally, you'll pay an
> average of about $10. No pay-through-the-nose special orders
> needed! ;-)
I wouldn't call buying a $14 tire "paying-through-the-nose".
ie. 584mm Panaracer Col de la Vie
However, I imagine the price of 584mm tires could rise exponentially
if all decent tires of this size were discontinued; similar to 622mm
Mavic MA2 rims and 622mm tan walled Avocet FasGrip tires.
|
| | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 17:26:00
From: landotter
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 10, 12:13 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jul 10, 11:45 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Looking around, I found a tire that offers probably 85-90% of the
> > performance of the above Avocet tire, at 1/3 the price!
>
> > Check out the Performance Forte City tire in 26x1.25, it is a true
> > slick tire that seems to roll "as well" as the Avocet and at the
> > current sale price of $8 each, regular price is $12, its a bargain:
>
> >http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=15304&subcategory...
>
> Not surprisingly, Nashbar has that same tire under their 'brand", too.
> Item NS-SBT in 26 x 1.25. Sometimes Nashbar is cheaper, sometimes
> Performance - it pays to check both, and generally, you'll pay an
> average of about $10. No pay-through-the-nose special orders
> needed! ;-)
>
I really like that tire a lot. It rolls nicely like a 650B, but
without the twine getting all caught up in your spokes. The ST/K
version is $13 with a kevlar belt--which *does* seem to prevent flats--
at least the ones around here.
|
| | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 10:13:38
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 10, 11:45 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Jul 9, 8:25 am, John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > On Jul 9, 9:38 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 9, 8:54 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > In article <1183947517.691793.215...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > > > landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Jul 8, 9:05 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > In article <jam293dafkos3beo2o6nmb0umouud1r...@4ax.com>,
> > > > > > > still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:54:40 -0500, Tim McNamara
> > > > > > > > <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > >They don't stock M6 bolts? Maybe you should stop in and verify
> > > > > > > > >this rather surprising assertion.
>
> > > > > > > > M6? Yes. They have them in a lovely shade of red mostly. Might go
> > > > > > > > nicely with some frames. But, I thought the Riv bolts were allen
> > > > > > > > head on one side, recessed nut on the other. That suggests a need
> > > > > > > > for a bolt with the "correct" size head.
>
> > > > > > > Standard Allen bolt and standard hex nut.
> > > > > > > Every hardware store should have them.
>
> > > > > > Um, how many binder bolts have you broken?
>
> > > > > Two. But that *is* in 40+ years of riding bikes. One was a Simplex
> > > > > style bolt, the other was one of those newfangled collar things.
>
> > > > > > The classic style is available at any shop for $5.
>
> > > > > Which is great, if you break one near a bike shop. Outside of American
> > > > > and European bike shops, standard seat post bolts are weird nonstandard
> > > > > things.
>
> > > > You can use any old bolt and a couple washers to get you to the next
> > > > bike shop. It won't look good--but it's just a pinch collar, for
> > > > cripe's sake.
>
> > > > > > What an odd thing to "standardize" when you promote weird tire sizes
> > > > > > and shellacking bar tape.
>
> > > > > The majority of tires Rivendell sells are 700 x 28 mm. I didn't know
> > > > > that was a weird size. 650B has been an existing standard for nearly
> > > > > 100 years, used in France, England, Sweden and other places. Just not
> > > > > much in the US which is, thankfully, not the center of the universe
> > > > > despite our pretensions to the contrary. You might think it's weird,
> > > > > but in a fair amount of the world it isn't.
>
> > > > It's weird. Look, I rode Swedish 28" roadsters and Monark folders with
> > > > who knows what size tires when I was young--they were common in
> > > > Sweden. Here such sizes are odd. But your argument is about as empty
> > > > as promoting Dunlop valves, because they're simple technology beloved
> > > > by a billion people in Asia and the subcontinent.
>
> > > > > More people in the world use the 28 x 1 1/2 (635 mm) size than use the
> > > > > 559, 622 or 630 mm sizes. In much of the world your 700C wheels would
> > > > > be considered weird. Better stay home so you don't have to worry about
> > > > > these things. ;-)
>
> > > > What a non-argument. If I was to set off on a world expedition, I'd
> > > > simply use a 26" wheel bike. Such tires are available pretty much
> > > > anywhere roadster tires are. If I was touring Europe, I'd stick to
> > > > 700c. In the US, I'd not feel uncomfortable using even 27" wheels--
> > > > because even Wally World will sell you a $10 27" tire when you're in
> > > > the bowels of Alabama.
>
> > > > 650B on a new build--by choice, instead of simply choosing a frame
> > > > that can accomodate fat 700c or even 27", is pointless pretense.-
>
> > > One could also make a case for 559mm/26" on a smallish frame.
>
> > > 650B on a new build for a bicycle sold by a North American vendor for
> > > use primarily in North America is a classic case of niche marketing to
> > > benefit the vendor at the long term expense of the end user. Seems
> > > pretty clear.
>
> > > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+ local
> > > bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even know what
> > > you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special ordered", but that's
> > > usually both an ordeal and an invitation to pay through the nose.
> > > OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety of both 700C and 26" wheels
> > > and tires *in stock*. And, of course, they can be easily ordered on
> > > line at competitive discounted prices directly by the end user.
>
> > A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires, will
> > also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
>
> Agree, for years I've been a big fan of Avocet tires. Their Avocet
> Fasgrip City 26x1.25 is a great rolling tire. However, Avocet has the
> worst distribution policy of any company and finding them has always
> been a challenged. Further, it appears that Avocet has decided to
> discontinue its 26" tires. What to do?
>
> Looking around, I found a tire that offers probably 85-90% of the
> performance of the above Avocet tire, at 1/3 the price!
>
> Check out the Performance Forte City tire in 26x1.25, it is a true
> slick tire that seems to roll "as well" as the Avocet and at the
> current sale price of $8 each, regular price is $12, its a bargain:
>
> http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=15304&subcategory...
Not surprisingly, Nashbar has that same tire under their 'brand", too.
Item NS-SBT in 26 x 1.25. Sometimes Nashbar is cheaper, sometimes
Performance - it pays to check both, and generally, you'll pay an
average of about $10. No pay-through-the-nose special orders
needed! ;-)
>
> Moreover, Performance offers several 26" road tires that they call
> "city" tires from different mfrs including Michelin, Continental,
> GEAX, and of course its own Forte brand.
>
> Note, Gaerlan, gtgtandems and Sheldon Brown still offer 26" Avocet
> tires for those who are still interested.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
|
| | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 06:26:04
From: russellseaton1@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 9, 6:04 pm, "G.T." <getne...@dslextreme.com > wrote:
> "Tim McNamara" <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote in message
>
> news:timmcn-E25EA1.15071009072007@news.iphouse.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <1183994705.366163.140...@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> > John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
> >> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>
> >> > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+ local
> >> > bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even know what
> >> > you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special ordered", but
> >> > that's usually both an ordeal and an invitation to pay through the
> >> > nose. OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety of both 700C and 26"
> >> > wheels and tires *in stock*. And, of course, they can be easily
> >> > ordered on line at competitive discounted prices directly by the
> >> > end user.
>
> >> A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires,
> >> will also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
>
> > One of my bikes (a Rivendell All-Rounder) is a largish frame (60 cm)
> > with 26" wheels.
>
> A 60cm with 26" wheels? For a large frame I see zero reason to run 559 or
> even 584.
For a loaded touring bike, no matter how large, or a city commuting
type bike, the 26" wheel size would be perfect. If I were building a
custom loaded touring bike, it would have 26" wheels. Bruce Gordon
has offered his high priced touring bike with 700C or 26" wheels for
many years and a few years ago introduced 26" wheels on a version of
his lower priced touring bike.
I couldn't find decent tires for my 559 equipped road bike and
> with Specialized 26x1.25" tires I had on it the ride was much more rattly
> than my 622 and 630 equipped bikes so that frame is currently on the wall of
> my garage awaiting a repurposing. Hell, I can fit 52mm front, and 44mm rear
> tires on my Soma so as a tall rider why in the world would I want to stick
> myself with 584 or 559 wheels?
>
> Greg
>
> --
> Ticketbastard tax tracker:http://ticketmastersucks.org/tracker.html
> Le petite dejeuner au Tour de Farce:http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=6131132- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
|
| | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 18:37:35
From: Joe Bernard
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 9, 5:49 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net > wrote:
> In article <1395fnqc09qr...@corp.supernews.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> "G.T." <getne...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> > "Tim McNamara" <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote in message
> >news:timmcn-E25EA1.15071009072007@news.iphouse.com...
> > > In article <1183994705.366163.140...@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> > > John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
> > >> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>
> > >> > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+
> > >> > local bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even
> > >> > know what you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special
> > >> > ordered", but that's usually both an ordeal and an invitation to
> > >> > pay through the nose. OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety
> > >> > of both 700C and 26" wheels and tires *in stock*. And, of
> > >> > course, they can be easily ordered on line at competitive
> > >> > discounted prices directly by the end user.
>
> > >> A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires,
> > >> will also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
>
> > > One of my bikes (a Rivendell All-Rounder) is a largish frame (60
> > > cm) with 26" wheels.
>
> > A 60cm with 26" wheels? For a large frame I see zero reason to run
> > 559 or even 584. I couldn't find decent tires for my 559 equipped
> > road bike and with Specialized 26x1.25" tires I had on it the ride
> > was much more rattly than my 622 and 630 equipped bikes so that frame
> > is currently on the wall of my garage awaiting a repurposing. Hell,
> > I can fit 52mm front, and 44mm rear tires on my Soma so as a tall
> > rider why in the world would I want to stick myself with 584 or 559
> > wheels?
>
> It seems to be my week for explaining myself. I bought this frame from
> Rivendell in 1996. At that time all the All-Rounders came with 26"
> wheels; later on these wheels were only used on smaller frames and 700C
> wheels were used on the larger frames. It was my mountain bike for
> several years (hence the choice of this frame rather than a road frame)
> and has been converted into my primary bike for brevets and touring.
> You can see the bike here:
>
> http://www2.bitstream.net/~timmcn/tour2000.html
>
> I use the Panaracer Pasela 26 x 1.25 which has been an excellent tire so
> far.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
And The Hobbit says [again], 650B is for smallish frames with fat
tires and fenders without a lot of toe-clip overlap for people who
know the truth: 26" wheels are slow on pavement.
And The Hobbit says, as pertains to the 603 boondoggle: It wasn't a
joke, but, it's a stupid idea. I like Grant, I like his designs, but,
he *is* half bonkers.
|
| | | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 23:42:25
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
In article <1184031455.616182.317220@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com >,
Joe Bernard <josephrbernard@sbcglobal.net > wrote:
> > It seems to be my week for explaining myself. I bought this frame
> > from Rivendell in 1996. At that time all the All-Rounders came
> > with 26" wheels; later on these wheels were only used on smaller
> > frames and 700C wheels were used on the larger frames. It was my
> > mountain bike for several years (hence the choice of this frame
> > rather than a road frame) and has been converted into my primary
> > bike for brevets and touring. You can see the bike here:
> >
> > http://www2.bitstream.net/~timmcn/tour2000.html
> >
> > I use the Panaracer Pasela 26 x 1.25 which has been an excellent
> > tire so far.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> And The Hobbit says [again], 650B is for smallish frames with fat
> tires and fenders without a lot of toe-clip overlap for people who
> know the truth: 26" wheels are slow on pavement.
Until I got the Paselas, I've have agreed with you but no longer. I
tried a bunch of different tires over the past 11 years and found that
my average speeds were about 1 mph slower over the same rolling to hilly
routes as on my 700C bikes at the same perceived effort. With the
Paselas there is no difference according to my cycle computers
(calibrated by roll-out). The All-Rounder rolls just as well on these
tires as my road bikes with 700 x 25s.
|
| | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 15:20:29
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 9, 3:07 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net > wrote:
> In article <1183994705.366163.140...@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>
> John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>
> > > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+ local
> > > bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even know what
> > > you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special ordered", but
> > > that's usually both an ordeal and an invitation to pay through the
> > > nose. OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety of both 700C and 26"
> > > wheels and tires *in stock*. And, of course, they can be easily
> > > ordered on line at competitive discounted prices directly by the
> > > end user.
>
> > A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires,
> > will also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
>
> One of my bikes (a Rivendell All-Rounder) is a largish frame (60 cm)
> with 26" wheels. Buying road tires for this bike at many of our LBSes
> is difficult. Some don't stock any at all, and many of those who do
> stock a poor selection of sizes and often rather poor quality heavy
> tires.
Of course, one is left to wonder *why* a vendor would offer, and an
end user purchase, a 60cm road frame built around 559mm BSD (26")
wheels.
|
| | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 16:26:15
From: landotter
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 9, 10:42 am, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jul 9, 10:33 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 9, 10:25 am, John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > > > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+ local
> > > > bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even know what
> > > > you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special ordered", but that's
> > > > usually both an ordeal and an invitation to pay through the nose.
> > > > OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety of both 700C and 26" wheels
> > > > and tires *in stock*. And, of course, they can be easily ordered on
> > > > line at competitive discounted prices directly by the end user.
>
> > > A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires, will
> > > also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
>
> > Let the little people bear their own crosses.
>
> You're a hard man, Mr. Landotter Who ! ;-)
Nah, it was literally their own choice. We had 100K holy rollers in
town this weekend for a squinty mega-prayer session at the coliseum--
and quite a few were actually bearing crosses while walking around
downtown. I'm not sure of the sizing system, but I'm guessing it's not
an off-the-shelf deal.
|
| | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 08:42:13
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 9, 10:33 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 9, 10:25 am, John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+ local
> > > bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even know what
> > > you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special ordered", but that's
> > > usually both an ordeal and an invitation to pay through the nose.
> > > OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety of both 700C and 26" wheels
> > > and tires *in stock*. And, of course, they can be easily ordered on
> > > line at competitive discounted prices directly by the end user.
>
> > A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires, will
> > also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
>
> Let the little people bear their own crosses.
You're a hard man, Mr. Landotter Who ! ;-)
|
| |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 21:23:58
From: landotter
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 7, 3:07 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jul 7, 2:44 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 7, 2:32 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
>
> > <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > landotter? wrote:
> > > > On Jul 7, 11:42 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >> The 650B movement is moving! According to Reknown Framebuilder Kirk
> > > >> Pacenti, there is an interest by *8 or 9 BIG mfrs* to fill in the 26"
> > > >> and 29er size tires with the new 27.5 inch size (that's reads: 650B to
> > > >> many).
>
> > > > What about the 600A size at 540mm? Think of all the stumpy people that
> > > > want road bikes that could benefit from this size! Think of the
> > > > children!!
>
> > > We are introducing the ISO 626-mm tire to satisfy those discriminating
> > > cyclists who find the ISO 622-mm (700C) too small, but the ISO 630-mm
> > > (27-inch) too large.
>
> > > Out next product will be a folder with ISO 352-mm wheels, which will
> > > offer a significant advantage over the smaller ISO 349-mm Brompton
> > > wheels while being much more compact than the Birdy with its ISO 355-mm
> > > wheels.
>
> > All silliness aside, there actually is a 600A size over there in Old
> > Europe.-
>
> And, believe it or not, the Hobbits are floating the idea of a 603mm
> BSD wheel. Alot of folks thought this was a joke, but, apparently it
> isn't!
>
> http://tinyurl.com/32rgl5
The Onion could not have topped that. Oh my.
|
| | |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 17:38:22
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
In article <1183843438.605969.148700@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com >,
landotter <landotter@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 7, 3:07 pm, Ozark Bicycle
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 7, 2:44 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jul 7, 2:32 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
> >
> > > <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > landotter? wrote:
> > > > > On Jul 7, 11:42 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > >> The 650B movement is moving! According to Reknown
> > > > >> Framebuilder Kirk Pacenti, there is an interest by *8 or 9
> > > > >> BIG mfrs* to fill in the 26" and 29er size tires with the
> > > > >> new 27.5 inch size (that's reads: 650B to many).
> >
> > > > > What about the 600A size at 540mm? Think of all the stumpy
> > > > > people that want road bikes that could benefit from this
> > > > > size! Think of the children!!
> >
> > > > We are introducing the ISO 626-mm tire to satisfy those
> > > > discriminating cyclists who find the ISO 622-mm (700C) too
> > > > small, but the ISO 630-mm (27-inch) too large.
> >
> > > > Out next product will be a folder with ISO 352-mm wheels, which
> > > > will offer a significant advantage over the smaller ISO 349-mm
> > > > Brompton wheels while being much more compact than the Birdy
> > > > with its ISO 355-mm wheels.
> >
> > > All silliness aside, there actually is a 600A size over there in
> > > Old Europe.-
> >
> > And, believe it or not, the Hobbits are floating the idea of a
> > 603mm BSD wheel. Alot of folks thought this was a joke, but,
> > apparently it isn't!
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/32rgl5
>
> The Onion could not have topped that. Oh my.
Indeed. It was Grant's puckish sense of humor- a.k.a. it's a joke, son.
|
| |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 13:07:59
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 7, 2:44 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 7, 2:32 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
>
>
>
> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > landotter? wrote:
> > > On Jul 7, 11:42 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >> The 650B movement is moving! According to Reknown Framebuilder Kirk
> > >> Pacenti, there is an interest by *8 or 9 BIG mfrs* to fill in the 26"
> > >> and 29er size tires with the new 27.5 inch size (that's reads: 650B to
> > >> many).
>
> > > What about the 600A size at 540mm? Think of all the stumpy people that
> > > want road bikes that could benefit from this size! Think of the
> > > children!!
>
> > We are introducing the ISO 626-mm tire to satisfy those discriminating
> > cyclists who find the ISO 622-mm (700C) too small, but the ISO 630-mm
> > (27-inch) too large.
>
> > Out next product will be a folder with ISO 352-mm wheels, which will
> > offer a significant advantage over the smaller ISO 349-mm Brompton
> > wheels while being much more compact than the Birdy with its ISO 355-mm
> > wheels.
>
> All silliness aside, there actually is a 600A size over there in Old
> Europe.-
And, believe it or not, the Hobbits are floating the idea of a 603mm
BSD wheel. Alot of folks thought this was a joke, but, apparently it
isn't!
http://tinyurl.com/32rgl5
or
http://preview.tinyurl.com/32rgl5
|
| | |
Date: 12 Jul 2007 14:05:52
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:42:30 -0500, Tim McNamara wrote:
>
> It's a place with a lot of dough.
Meh. Must be a pretty flaky town.
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
|
| | | |
Date: 12 Jul 2007 12:24:58
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
In article <4zqli.72574$tL1.71060@newsfe22.lga >,
Luigi de Guzman <luigi12081@cox.net > wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:42:30 -0500, Tim McNamara wrote:
>
> >
> > It's a place with a lot of dough.
>
> Meh. Must be a pretty flaky town.
Filled with nuts.
|
| | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 22:07:18
From: landotter
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 10, 2:33 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jul 10, 2:25 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 20:15:10 -0700, Michael Press wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <timmcn-1A8986.16172408072...@news.iphouse.com>,
> > > Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > >> Exactly. But people do, lots of the time. You'd think Grant Petersen
> > >> was personally inoculating mosquitos with West Nile virus.
>
> > > He is?
>
> > The same way Jobst Brandt eats children.
>
> Roasted in a 350F oven, 15 minutes per pound and served au jus?
I always wondered about his collection of little shoes.
|
| | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 20:56:57
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:33:30 -0700, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> On Jul 10, 2:25 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 20:15:10 -0700, Michael Press wrote:
>> > In article
>> > <timmcn-1A8986.16172408072...@news.iphouse.com>,
>> > Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>>
>> >> Exactly. But people do, lots of the time. You'd think Grant Petersen
>> >> was personally inoculating mosquitos with West Nile virus.
>>
>> > He is?
>>
>> The same way Jobst Brandt eats children.
>>
>
> Roasted in a 350F oven, 15 minutes per pound and served au jus?
Please. That's 177 C, 30 minutes per kilo. Serve with a good Bordeaux.
-Luigi
whose sense of humor (sometimes) holds up well to flames.
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
|
| | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 12:33:30
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 10, 2:25 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net > wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 20:15:10 -0700, Michael Press wrote:
> > In article
> > <timmcn-1A8986.16172408072...@news.iphouse.com>,
> > Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> >> Exactly. But people do, lots of the time. You'd think Grant Petersen
> >> was personally inoculating mosquitos with West Nile virus.
>
> > He is?
>
> The same way Jobst Brandt eats children.
>
Roasted in a 350F oven, 15 minutes per pound and served au jus?
|
| | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 09:45:34
From: bfd
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 9, 8:25 am, John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 9, 9:38 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 9, 8:54 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > In article <1183947517.691793.215...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > > landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Jul 8, 9:05 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > > > > > In article <jam293dafkos3beo2o6nmb0umouud1r...@4ax.com>,
> > > > > > still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:54:40 -0500, Tim McNamara
> > > > > > > <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >They don't stock M6 bolts? Maybe you should stop in and verify
> > > > > > > >this rather surprising assertion.
>
> > > > > > > M6? Yes. They have them in a lovely shade of red mostly. Might go
> > > > > > > nicely with some frames. But, I thought the Riv bolts were allen
> > > > > > > head on one side, recessed nut on the other. That suggests a need
> > > > > > > for a bolt with the "correct" size head.
>
> > > > > > Standard Allen bolt and standard hex nut.
> > > > > > Every hardware store should have them.
>
> > > > > Um, how many binder bolts have you broken?
>
> > > > Two. But that *is* in 40+ years of riding bikes. One was a Simplex
> > > > style bolt, the other was one of those newfangled collar things.
>
> > > > > The classic style is available at any shop for $5.
>
> > > > Which is great, if you break one near a bike shop. Outside of American
> > > > and European bike shops, standard seat post bolts are weird nonstandard
> > > > things.
>
> > > You can use any old bolt and a couple washers to get you to the next
> > > bike shop. It won't look good--but it's just a pinch collar, for
> > > cripe's sake.
>
> > > > > What an odd thing to "standardize" when you promote weird tire sizes
> > > > > and shellacking bar tape.
>
> > > > The majority of tires Rivendell sells are 700 x 28 mm. I didn't know
> > > > that was a weird size. 650B has been an existing standard for nearly
> > > > 100 years, used in France, England, Sweden and other places. Just not
> > > > much in the US which is, thankfully, not the center of the universe
> > > > despite our pretensions to the contrary. You might think it's weird,
> > > > but in a fair amount of the world it isn't.
>
> > > It's weird. Look, I rode Swedish 28" roadsters and Monark folders with
> > > who knows what size tires when I was young--they were common in
> > > Sweden. Here such sizes are odd. But your argument is about as empty
> > > as promoting Dunlop valves, because they're simple technology beloved
> > > by a billion people in Asia and the subcontinent.
>
> > > > More people in the world use the 28 x 1 1/2 (635 mm) size than use the
> > > > 559, 622 or 630 mm sizes. In much of the world your 700C wheels would
> > > > be considered weird. Better stay home so you don't have to worry about
> > > > these things. ;-)
>
> > > What a non-argument. If I was to set off on a world expedition, I'd
> > > simply use a 26" wheel bike. Such tires are available pretty much
> > > anywhere roadster tires are. If I was touring Europe, I'd stick to
> > > 700c. In the US, I'd not feel uncomfortable using even 27" wheels--
> > > because even Wally World will sell you a $10 27" tire when you're in
> > > the bowels of Alabama.
>
> > > 650B on a new build--by choice, instead of simply choosing a frame
> > > that can accomodate fat 700c or even 27", is pointless pretense.-
>
> > One could also make a case for 559mm/26" on a smallish frame.
>
> > 650B on a new build for a bicycle sold by a North American vendor for
> > use primarily in North America is a classic case of niche marketing to
> > benefit the vendor at the long term expense of the end user. Seems
> > pretty clear.
>
> > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+ local
> > bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even know what
> > you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special ordered", but that's
> > usually both an ordeal and an invitation to pay through the nose.
> > OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety of both 700C and 26" wheels
> > and tires *in stock*. And, of course, they can be easily ordered on
> > line at competitive discounted prices directly by the end user.
>
> A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires, will
> also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
>
Agree, for years I've been a big fan of Avocet tires. Their Avocet
Fasgrip City 26x1.25 is a great rolling tire. However, Avocet has the
worst distribution policy of any company and finding them has always
been a challenged. Further, it appears that Avocet has decided to
discontinue its 26" tires. What to do?
Looking around, I found a tire that offers probably 85-90% of the
performance of the above Avocet tire, at 1/3 the price!
Check out the Performance Forte City tire in 26x1.25, it is a true
slick tire that seems to roll "as well" as the Avocet and at the
current sale price of $8 each, regular price is $12, its a bargain:
http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=15304&subcategory_ID=5425
Moreover, Performance offers several 26" road tires that they call
"city" tires from different mfrs including Michelin, Continental,
GEAX, and of course its own Forte brand.
Note, Gaerlan, gtgtandems and Sheldon Brown still offer 26" Avocet
tires for those who are still interested.
|
| | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 20:05:04
From: landotter
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 9, 3:00 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net > wrote:
> In article <1183991928.618737.281...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 9, 8:54 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > > In article <1183947517.691793.215...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Jul 8, 9:05 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > > > > In article <jam293dafkos3beo2o6nmb0umouud1r...@4ax.com>,
> > > > > still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:54:40 -0500, Tim McNamara
> > > > > > <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > >They don't stock M6 bolts? Maybe you should stop in and
> > > > > > >verify this rather surprising assertion.
>
> > > > > > M6? Yes. They have them in a lovely shade of red mostly.
> > > > > > Might go nicely with some frames. But, I thought the Riv
> > > > > > bolts were allen head on one side, recessed nut on the other.
> > > > > > That suggests a need for a bolt with the "correct" size head.
>
> > > > > Standard Allen bolt and standard hex nut. Every hardware store
> > > > > should have them.
>
> > > > Um, how many binder bolts have you broken?
>
> > > Two. But that *is* in 40+ years of riding bikes. One was a
> > > Simplex style bolt, the other was one of those newfangled collar
> > > things.
>
> > > > The classic style is available at any shop for $5.
>
> > > Which is great, if you break one near a bike shop. Outside of
> > > American and European bike shops, standard seat post bolts are
> > > weird nonstandard things.
>
> > You can use any old bolt and a couple washers to get you to the next
> > bike shop. It won't look good--but it's just a pinch collar, for
> > cripe's sake.
>
> > > > What an odd thing to "standardize" when you promote weird tire
> > > > sizes and shellacking bar tape.
>
> > > The majority of tires Rivendell sells are 700 x 28 mm. I didn't
> > > know that was a weird size. 650B has been an existing standard for
> > > nearly 100 years, used in France, England, Sweden and other places.
> > > Just not much in the US which is, thankfully, not the center of
> > > the universe despite our pretensions to the contrary. You might
> > > think it's weird, but in a fair amount of the world it isn't.
>
> > It's weird. Look, I rode Swedish 28" roadsters and Monark folders
> > with who knows what size tires when I was young--they were common in
> > Sweden. Here such sizes are odd. But your argument is about as empty
> > as promoting Dunlop valves, because they're simple technology beloved
> > by a billion people in Asia and the subcontinent.
>
> > > More people in the world use the 28 x 1 1/2 (635 mm) size than use
> > > the 559, 622 or 630 mm sizes. In much of the world your 700C
> > > wheels would be considered weird. Better stay home so you don't
> > > have to worry about these things. ;-)
>
> > What a non-argument. If I was to set off on a world expedition, I'd
> > simply use a 26" wheel bike. Such tires are available pretty much
> > anywhere roadster tires are. If I was touring Europe, I'd stick to
> > 700c. In the US, I'd not feel uncomfortable using even 27" wheels--
> > because even Wally World will sell you a $10 27" tire when you're in
> > the bowels of Alabama.
>
> > 650B on a new build--by choice, instead of simply choosing a frame
> > that can accomodate fat 700c or even 27", is pointless pretense.
>
> What I see as pointless pretense is the great deal of energy you expend
> railing against these things. Good grief.
Hi, welcome to rec.bicycles.tech.
|
| | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 08:40:17
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 9, 10:25 am, John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 9, 9:38 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 9, 8:54 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > In article <1183947517.691793.215...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > > landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Jul 8, 9:05 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > > > > > In article <jam293dafkos3beo2o6nmb0umouud1r...@4ax.com>,
> > > > > > still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:54:40 -0500, Tim McNamara
> > > > > > > <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >They don't stock M6 bolts? Maybe you should stop in and verify
> > > > > > > >this rather surprising assertion.
>
> > > > > > > M6? Yes. They have them in a lovely shade of red mostly. Might go
> > > > > > > nicely with some frames. But, I thought the Riv bolts were allen
> > > > > > > head on one side, recessed nut on the other. That suggests a need
> > > > > > > for a bolt with the "correct" size head.
>
> > > > > > Standard Allen bolt and standard hex nut.
> > > > > > Every hardware store should have them.
>
> > > > > Um, how many binder bolts have you broken?
>
> > > > Two. But that *is* in 40+ years of riding bikes. One was a Simplex
> > > > style bolt, the other was one of those newfangled collar things.
>
> > > > > The classic style is available at any shop for $5.
>
> > > > Which is great, if you break one near a bike shop. Outside of American
> > > > and European bike shops, standard seat post bolts are weird nonstandard
> > > > things.
>
> > > You can use any old bolt and a couple washers to get you to the next
> > > bike shop. It won't look good--but it's just a pinch collar, for
> > > cripe's sake.
>
> > > > > What an odd thing to "standardize" when you promote weird tire sizes
> > > > > and shellacking bar tape.
>
> > > > The majority of tires Rivendell sells are 700 x 28 mm. I didn't know
> > > > that was a weird size. 650B has been an existing standard for nearly
> > > > 100 years, used in France, England, Sweden and other places. Just not
> > > > much in the US which is, thankfully, not the center of the universe
> > > > despite our pretensions to the contrary. You might think it's weird,
> > > > but in a fair amount of the world it isn't.
>
> > > It's weird. Look, I rode Swedish 28" roadsters and Monark folders with
> > > who knows what size tires when I was young--they were common in
> > > Sweden. Here such sizes are odd. But your argument is about as empty
> > > as promoting Dunlop valves, because they're simple technology beloved
> > > by a billion people in Asia and the subcontinent.
>
> > > > More people in the world use the 28 x 1 1/2 (635 mm) size than use the
> > > > 559, 622 or 630 mm sizes. In much of the world your 700C wheels would
> > > > be considered weird. Better stay home so you don't have to worry about
> > > > these things. ;-)
>
> > > What a non-argument. If I was to set off on a world expedition, I'd
> > > simply use a 26" wheel bike. Such tires are available pretty much
> > > anywhere roadster tires are. If I was touring Europe, I'd stick to
> > > 700c. In the US, I'd not feel uncomfortable using even 27" wheels--
> > > because even Wally World will sell you a $10 27" tire when you're in
> > > the bowels of Alabama.
>
> > > 650B on a new build--by choice, instead of simply choosing a frame
> > > that can accomodate fat 700c or even 27", is pointless pretense.-
>
> > One could also make a case for 559mm/26" on a smallish frame.
>
> > 650B on a new build for a bicycle sold by a North American vendor for
> > use primarily in North America is a classic case of niche marketing to
> > benefit the vendor at the long term expense of the end user. Seems
> > pretty clear.
>
> > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+ local
> > bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even know what
> > you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special ordered", but that's
> > usually both an ordeal and an invitation to pay through the nose.
> > OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety of both 700C and 26" wheels
> > and tires *in stock*. And, of course, they can be easily ordered on
> > line at competitive discounted prices directly by the end user.
>
> A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires, will
> also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
>
Perhaps, perhaps not. But they are far more available, both in shops
on line, at competitive, discounted prices than is anything 650B.
Further, most honest and intelligent vendors restrict the use of 559mm
wheels on road bikes to small frames where they are necessary (IOW,
the slight inconvenience of finding a tire is far outweighed by the
superior fit and geometry of the bike). In general, they are not used
as a niche market ploy.
|
| | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 15:33:56
From: landotter
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 9, 10:25 am, John <johnmcmu...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+ local
> > bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even know what
> > you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special ordered", but that's
> > usually both an ordeal and an invitation to pay through the nose.
> > OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety of both 700C and 26" wheels
> > and tires *in stock*. And, of course, they can be easily ordered on
> > line at competitive discounted prices directly by the end user.
>
> A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires, will
> also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
Let the little people bear their own crosses.
|
| | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 15:25:05
From: John
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jul 9, 9:38 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 9, 8:54 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > In article <1183947517.691793.215...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Jul 8, 9:05 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > > > > In article <jam293dafkos3beo2o6nmb0umouud1r...@4ax.com>,
> > > > > still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:54:40 -0500, Tim McNamara
> > > > > > <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > >They don't stock M6 bolts? Maybe you should stop in and verify
> > > > > > >this rather surprising assertion.
>
> > > > > > M6? Yes. They have them in a lovely shade of red mostly. Might go
> > > > > > nicely with some frames. But, I thought the Riv bolts were allen
> > > > > > head on one side, recessed nut on the other. That suggests a need
> > > > > > for a bolt with the "correct" size head.
>
> > > > > Standard Allen bolt and standard hex nut.
> > > > > Every hardware store should have them.
>
> > > > Um, how many binder bolts have you broken?
>
> > > Two. But that *is* in 40+ years of riding bikes. One was a Simplex
> > > style bolt, the other was one of those newfangled collar things.
>
> > > > The classic style is available at any shop for $5.
>
> > > Which is great, if you break one near a bike shop. Outside of American
> > > and European bike shops, standard seat post bolts are weird nonstandard
> > > things.
>
> > You can use any old bolt and a couple washers to get you to the next
> > bike shop. It won't look good--but it's just a pinch collar, for
> > cripe's sake.
>
> > > > What an odd thing to "standardize" when you promote weird tire sizes
> > > > and shellacking bar tape.
>
> > > The majority of tires Rivendell sells are 700 x 28 mm. I didn't know
> > > that was a weird size. 650B has been an existing standard for nearly
> > > 100 years, used in France, England, Sweden and other places. Just not
> > > much in the US which is, thankfully, not the center of the universe
> > > despite our pretensions to the contrary. You might think it's weird,
> > > but in a fair amount of the world it isn't.
>
> > It's weird. Look, I rode Swedish 28" roadsters and Monark folders with
> > who knows what size tires when I was young--they were common in
> > Sweden. Here such sizes are odd. But your argument is about as empty
> > as promoting Dunlop valves, because they're simple technology beloved
> > by a billion people in Asia and the subcontinent.
>
> > > More people in the world use the 28 x 1 1/2 (635 mm) size than use the
> > > 559, 622 or 630 mm sizes. In much of the world your 700C wheels would
> > > be considered weird. Better stay home so you don't have to worry about
> > > these things. ;-)
>
> > What a non-argument. If I was to set off on a world expedition, I'd
> > simply use a 26" wheel bike. Such tires are available pretty much
> > anywhere roadster tires are. If I was touring Europe, I'd stick to
> > 700c. In the US, I'd not feel uncomfortable using even 27" wheels--
> > because even Wally World will sell you a $10 27" tire when you're in
> > the bowels of Alabama.
>
> > 650B on a new build--by choice, instead of simply choosing a frame
> > that can accomodate fat 700c or even 27", is pointless pretense.-
>
> One could also make a case for 559mm/26" on a smallish frame.
>
> 650B on a new build for a bicycle sold by a North American vendor for
> use primarily in North America is a classic case of niche marketing to
> benefit the vendor at the long term expense of the end user. Seems
> pretty clear.
>
> People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+ local
> bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even know what
> you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special ordered", but that's
> usually both an ordeal and an invitation to pay through the nose.
> OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety of both 700C and 26" wheels
> and tires *in stock*. And, of course, they can be easily ordered on
> line at competitive discounted prices directly by the end user.
A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires, will
also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
John McMurry
|
| | | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 15:07:10
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
In article <1183994705.366163.140380@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com >,
John <johnmcmurry@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>
> > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+ local
> > bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even know what
> > you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special ordered", but
> > that's usually both an ordeal and an invitation to pay through the
> > nose. OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety of both 700C and 26"
> > wheels and tires *in stock*. And, of course, they can be easily
> > ordered on line at competitive discounted prices directly by the
> > end user.
>
> A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires,
> will also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
One of my bikes (a Rivendell All-Rounder) is a largish frame (60 cm)
with 26" wheels. Buying road tires for this bike at many of our LBSes
is difficult. Some don't stock any at all, and many of those who do
stock a poor selection of sizes and often rather poor quality heavy
tires.
|
| | | | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 16:04:25
From: G.T.
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
"Tim McNamara" <timmcn@bitstream.net > wrote in message
news:timmcn-E25EA1.15071009072007@news.iphouse.com...
> In article <1183994705.366163.140380@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> John <johnmcmurry@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
>> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>>
>> > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+ local
>> > bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even know what
>> > you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special ordered", but
>> > that's usually both an ordeal and an invitation to pay through the
>> > nose. OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety of both 700C and 26"
>> > wheels and tires *in stock*. And, of course, they can be easily
>> > ordered on line at competitive discounted prices directly by the
>> > end user.
>>
>> A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires,
>> will also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
>
> One of my bikes (a Rivendell All-Rounder) is a largish frame (60 cm)
> with 26" wheels.
A 60cm with 26" wheels? For a large frame I see zero reason to run 559 or
even 584. I couldn't find decent tires for my 559 equipped road bike and
with Specialized 26x1.25" tires I had on it the ride was much more rattly
than my 622 and 630 equipped bikes so that frame is currently on the wall of
my garage awaiting a repurposing. Hell, I can fit 52mm front, and 44mm rear
tires on my Soma so as a tall rider why in the world would I want to stick
myself with 584 or 559 wheels?
Greg
--
Ticketbastard tax tracker:
http://ticketmastersucks.org/tracker.html
Le petite dejeuner au Tour de Farce:
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=6131132
|
| | | | | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 19:49:32
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
In article <1395fnqc09qrb11@corp.supernews.com >,
"G.T." <getnews1@dslextreme.com > wrote:
> "Tim McNamara" <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote in message
> news:timmcn-E25EA1.15071009072007@news.iphouse.com...
> > In article <1183994705.366163.140380@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> > John <johnmcmurry@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
> >> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+
> >> > local bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even
> >> > know what you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special
> >> > ordered", but that's usually both an ordeal and an invitation to
> >> > pay through the nose. OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety
> >> > of both 700C and 26" wheels and tires *in stock*. And, of
> >> > course, they can be easily ordered on line at competitive
> >> > discounted prices directly by the end user.
> >>
> >> A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires,
> >> will also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
> >
> > One of my bikes (a Rivendell All-Rounder) is a largish frame (60
> > cm) with 26" wheels.
>
> A 60cm with 26" wheels? For a large frame I see zero reason to run
> 559 or even 584. I couldn't find decent tires for my 559 equipped
> road bike and with Specialized 26x1.25" tires I had on it the ride
> was much more rattly than my 622 and 630 equipped bikes so that frame
> is currently on the wall of my garage awaiting a repurposing. Hell,
> I can fit 52mm front, and 44mm rear tires on my Soma so as a tall
> rider why in the world would I want to stick myself with 584 or 559
> wheels?
It seems to be my week for explaining myself. I bought this frame from
Rivendell in 1996. At that time all the All-Rounders came with 26"
wheels; later on these wheels were only used on smaller frames and 700C
wheels were used on the larger frames. It was my mountain bike for
several years (hence the choice of this frame rather than a road frame)
and has been converted into my primary bike for brevets and touring.
You can see the bike here:
http://www2.bitstream.net/~timmcn/tour2000.html
I use the Panaracer Pasela 26 x 1.25 which has been an excellent tire so
far.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 09:20:18
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
"Tim McNamara" <timmcn@bitstream.net > wrote in message
news:timmcn-EEF951.19493209072007@news.iphouse.com...
> In article <1395fnqc09qrb11@corp.supernews.com>,
> "G.T." <getnews1@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>
> > "Tim McNamara" <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote in message
> > news:timmcn-E25EA1.15071009072007@news.iphouse.com...
> > > In article <1183994705.366163.140380@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> > > John <johnmcmurry@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Jul 9, 10:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
> > >> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+
> > >> > local bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even
> > >> > know what you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special
> > >> > ordered", but that's usually both an ordeal and an invitation to
> > >> > pay through the nose. OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety
> > >> > of both 700C and 26" wheels and tires *in stock*. And, of
> > >> > course, they can be easily ordered on line at competitive
> > >> > discounted prices directly by the end user.
> > >>
> > >> A cyclist who rides a smaller frame, designed around 559mm tires,
> > >> will also not easily find a decent tire *in stock* for road use.
> > >
> > > One of my bikes (a Rivendell All-Rounder) is a largish frame (60
> > > cm) with 26" wheels.
> >
> > A 60cm with 26" wheels? For a large frame I see zero reason to run
> > 559 or even 584. I couldn't find decent tires for my 559 equipped
> > road bike and with Specialized 26x1.25" tires I had on it the ride
> > was much more rattly than my 622 and 630 equipped bikes so that frame
> > is currently on the wall of my garage awaiting a repurposing. Hell,
> > I can fit 52mm front, and 44mm rear tires on my Soma so as a tall
> > rider why in the world would I want to stick myself with 584 or 559
> > wheels?
>
> It seems to be my week for explaining myself. I bought this frame from
> Rivendell in 1996. At that time all the All-Rounders came with 26"
> wheels; later on these wheels were only used on smaller frames and 700C
> wheels were used on the larger frames. It was my mountain bike for
> several years (hence the choice of this frame rather than a road frame)
> and has been converted into my primary bike for brevets and touring.
> You can see the bike here:
>
> http://www2.bitstream.net/~timmcn/tour2000.html
>
> I use the Panaracer Pasela 26 x 1.25 which has been an excellent tire so
> far.
Last year I picked up a classic 1987 Colnago MTB. This is my 1st and only
modern 26" bike. I've been riding off road with 700C wheels since 1976.
The tires were shot on the Colnago so I went looking for some crossover
tires that I could use both on and off road. I put on a set of Panaracer
Pasela 26 x 1.50 tires since I've been riding 700 x 25C and 28C Paselas on
several road bikes and really like them.
The ride was nice and smooth on the road but the bike handled weird both
on and off road. I switched to some Specialized 26 x 1.75 tires and they
feel a little better.
Chas.
|
| | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 15:08:28
From: landotter
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 9, 9:51 am, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jul 9, 9:38 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>If I was to set off on a world expedition, I'd
> > simply use a 26" wheel bike. Such tires are available pretty much
> > anywhere roadster tires are. If I was touring Europe, I'd stick to
> > 700c. In the US, I'd not feel uncomfortable using even 27" wheels--
> > because even Wally World will sell you a $10 27" tire when you're in
> > the bowels of Alabama.
>
> > 650B on a new build--by choice, instead of simply choosing a frame
> > that can accomodate fat 700c or even 27", is pointless pretense.-
>
> One could also make a case for 559mm/26" on a smallish frame.
Sure thing. FWIW, I've been enjoying the 27x 1 1/4" tires on my
neighborhood ride so much, that I sort of regret converting my road
bike to 700c. It's surely mostly psychological--but the wheels just
look majestic, especially the wide-ish rims. It's got nearly that
magic glide of a DL-1, but it can actually stop without a prayer.
>
> 650B on a new build for a bicycle sold by a North American vendor for
> use primarily in North America is a classic case of niche marketing to
> benefit the vendor at the long term expense of the end user. Seems
> pretty clear.
>
> People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+ local
> bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even know what
> you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special ordered", but that's
> usually both an ordeal and an invitation to pay through the nose.
> OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety of both 700C and 26" wheels
> and tires *in stock*. And, of course, they can be easily ordered on
> line at competitive discounted prices directly by the end user.
You and your "reason". Snort! Have you no faith in Grant? I think
he's in cahoots with the Flying Spaghetti Monster--submit to their
religion and you'll have an eternity of beer volcanoes and stripper
factories!
|
| | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 07:51:44
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 9, 9:38 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 9, 8:54 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <1183947517.691793.215...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Jul 8, 9:05 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > > > In article <jam293dafkos3beo2o6nmb0umouud1r...@4ax.com>,
> > > > still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:54:40 -0500, Tim McNamara
> > > > > <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > >They don't stock M6 bolts? Maybe you should stop in and verify
> > > > > >this rather surprising assertion.
>
> > > > > M6? Yes. They have them in a lovely shade of red mostly. Might go
> > > > > nicely with some frames. But, I thought the Riv bolts were allen
> > > > > head on one side, recessed nut on the other. That suggests a need
> > > > > for a bolt with the "correct" size head.
>
> > > > Standard Allen bolt and standard hex nut.
> > > > Every hardware store should have them.
>
> > > Um, how many binder bolts have you broken?
>
> > Two. But that *is* in 40+ years of riding bikes. One was a Simplex
> > style bolt, the other was one of those newfangled collar things.
>
> > > The classic style is available at any shop for $5.
>
> > Which is great, if you break one near a bike shop. Outside of American
> > and European bike shops, standard seat post bolts are weird nonstandard
> > things.
>
> You can use any old bolt and a couple washers to get you to the next
> bike shop. It won't look good--but it's just a pinch collar, for
> cripe's sake.
>
>
>
> > > What an odd thing to "standardize" when you promote weird tire sizes
> > > and shellacking bar tape.
>
> > The majority of tires Rivendell sells are 700 x 28 mm. I didn't know
> > that was a weird size. 650B has been an existing standard for nearly
> > 100 years, used in France, England, Sweden and other places. Just not
> > much in the US which is, thankfully, not the center of the universe
> > despite our pretensions to the contrary. You might think it's weird,
> > but in a fair amount of the world it isn't.
>
> It's weird. Look, I rode Swedish 28" roadsters and Monark folders with
> who knows what size tires when I was young--they were common in
> Sweden. Here such sizes are odd. But your argument is about as empty
> as promoting Dunlop valves, because they're simple technology beloved
> by a billion people in Asia and the subcontinent.
>
>
>
> > More people in the world use the 28 x 1 1/2 (635 mm) size than use the
> > 559, 622 or 630 mm sizes. In much of the world your 700C wheels would
> > be considered weird. Better stay home so you don't have to worry about
> > these things. ;-)
>
> What a non-argument. If I was to set off on a world expedition, I'd
> simply use a 26" wheel bike. Such tires are available pretty much
> anywhere roadster tires are. If I was touring Europe, I'd stick to
> 700c. In the US, I'd not feel uncomfortable using even 27" wheels--
> because even Wally World will sell you a $10 27" tire when you're in
> the bowels of Alabama.
>
> 650B on a new build--by choice, instead of simply choosing a frame
> that can accomodate fat 700c or even 27", is pointless pretense.-
One could also make a case for 559mm/26" on a smallish frame.
650B on a new build for a bicycle sold by a North American vendor for
use primarily in North America is a classic case of niche marketing to
benefit the vendor at the long term expense of the end user. Seems
pretty clear.
People might be interested enough to call around to 2/3/4/5+ local
bike shops to see if they have any 650B in stock (or even know what
you're asking about!). Sure, they can be "special ordered", but that's
usually both an ordeal and an invitation to pay through the nose.
OTOH, any decent LBS will have a variety of both 700C and 26" wheels
and tires *in stock*. And, of course, they can be easily ordered on
line at competitive discounted prices directly by the end user.
|
| | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 14:38:48
From: landotter
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 9, 8:54 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net > wrote:
> In article <1183947517.691793.215...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 8, 9:05 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > > In article <jam293dafkos3beo2o6nmb0umouud1r...@4ax.com>,
> > > still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:54:40 -0500, Tim McNamara
> > > > <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > > >They don't stock M6 bolts? Maybe you should stop in and verify
> > > > >this rather surprising assertion.
>
> > > > M6? Yes. They have them in a lovely shade of red mostly. Might go
> > > > nicely with some frames. But, I thought the Riv bolts were allen
> > > > head on one side, recessed nut on the other. That suggests a need
> > > > for a bolt with the "correct" size head.
>
> > > Standard Allen bolt and standard hex nut.
> > > Every hardware store should have them.
>
> > Um, how many binder bolts have you broken?
>
> Two. But that *is* in 40+ years of riding bikes. One was a Simplex
> style bolt, the other was one of those newfangled collar things.
>
> > The classic style is available at any shop for $5.
>
> Which is great, if you break one near a bike shop. Outside of American
> and European bike shops, standard seat post bolts are weird nonstandard
> things.
You can use any old bolt and a couple washers to get you to the next
bike shop. It won't look good--but it's just a pinch collar, for
cripe's sake.
>
> > What an odd thing to "standardize" when you promote weird tire sizes
> > and shellacking bar tape.
>
> The majority of tires Rivendell sells are 700 x 28 mm. I didn't know
> that was a weird size. 650B has been an existing standard for nearly
> 100 years, used in France, England, Sweden and other places. Just not
> much in the US which is, thankfully, not the center of the universe
> despite our pretensions to the contrary. You might think it's weird,
> but in a fair amount of the world it isn't.
It's weird. Look, I rode Swedish 28" roadsters and Monark folders with
who knows what size tires when I was young--they were common in
Sweden. Here such sizes are odd. But your argument is about as empty
as promoting Dunlop valves, because they're simple technology beloved
by a billion people in Asia and the subcontinent.
>
> More people in the world use the 28 x 1 1/2 (635 mm) size than use the
> 559, 622 or 630 mm sizes. In much of the world your 700C wheels would
> be considered weird. Better stay home so you don't have to worry about
> these things. ;-)
What a non-argument. If I was to set off on a world expedition, I'd
simply use a 26" wheel bike. Such tires are available pretty much
anywhere roadster tires are. If I was touring Europe, I'd stick to
700c. In the US, I'd not feel uncomfortable using even 27" wheels--
because even Wally World will sell you a $10 27" tire when you're in
the bowels of Alabama.
650B on a new build--by choice, instead of simply choosing a frame
that can accomodate fat 700c or even 27", is pointless pretense.
|
| | | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 15:00:43
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
In article <1183991928.618737.281060@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com >,
landotter <landotter@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 9, 8:54 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > In article <1183947517.691793.215...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >
> >
> > landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Jul 8, 9:05 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > > > In article <jam293dafkos3beo2o6nmb0umouud1r...@4ax.com>,
> > > > still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:54:40 -0500, Tim McNamara
> > > > > <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> >
> > > > > >They don't stock M6 bolts? Maybe you should stop in and
> > > > > >verify this rather surprising assertion.
> >
> > > > > M6? Yes. They have them in a lovely shade of red mostly.
> > > > > Might go nicely with some frames. But, I thought the Riv
> > > > > bolts were allen head on one side, recessed nut on the other.
> > > > > That suggests a need for a bolt with the "correct" size head.
> >
> > > > Standard Allen bolt and standard hex nut. Every hardware store
> > > > should have them.
> >
> > > Um, how many binder bolts have you broken?
> >
> > Two. But that *is* in 40+ years of riding bikes. One was a
> > Simplex style bolt, the other was one of those newfangled collar
> > things.
> >
> > > The classic style is available at any shop for $5.
> >
> > Which is great, if you break one near a bike shop. Outside of
> > American and European bike shops, standard seat post bolts are
> > weird nonstandard things.
>
> You can use any old bolt and a couple washers to get you to the next
> bike shop. It won't look good--but it's just a pinch collar, for
> cripe's sake.
>
> >
> > > What an odd thing to "standardize" when you promote weird tire
> > > sizes and shellacking bar tape.
> >
> > The majority of tires Rivendell sells are 700 x 28 mm. I didn't
> > know that was a weird size. 650B has been an existing standard for
> > nearly 100 years, used in France, England, Sweden and other places.
> > Just not much in the US which is, thankfully, not the center of
> > the universe despite our pretensions to the contrary. You might
> > think it's weird, but in a fair amount of the world it isn't.
>
> It's weird. Look, I rode Swedish 28" roadsters and Monark folders
> with who knows what size tires when I was young--they were common in
> Sweden. Here such sizes are odd. But your argument is about as empty
> as promoting Dunlop valves, because they're simple technology beloved
> by a billion people in Asia and the subcontinent.
> >
> > More people in the world use the 28 x 1 1/2 (635 mm) size than use
> > the 559, 622 or 630 mm sizes. In much of the world your 700C
> > wheels would be considered weird. Better stay home so you don't
> > have to worry about these things. ;-)
>
> What a non-argument. If I was to set off on a world expedition, I'd
> simply use a 26" wheel bike. Such tires are available pretty much
> anywhere roadster tires are. If I was touring Europe, I'd stick to
> 700c. In the US, I'd not feel uncomfortable using even 27" wheels--
> because even Wally World will sell you a $10 27" tire when you're in
> the bowels of Alabama.
>
> 650B on a new build--by choice, instead of simply choosing a frame
> that can accomodate fat 700c or even 27", is pointless pretense.
What I see as pointless pretense is the great deal of energy you expend
railing against these things. Good grief.
|
| | |
Date: 08 Jul 2007 19:18:37
From: landotter
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 8, 9:05 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net > wrote:
> In article <jam293dafkos3beo2o6nmb0umouud1r...@4ax.com>,
> still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:54:40 -0500, Tim McNamara
> > <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > >They don't stock M6 bolts? Maybe you should stop in and verify this
> > >rather surprising assertion.
>
> > M6? Yes. They have them in a lovely shade of red mostly. Might go
> > nicely with some frames. But, I thought the Riv bolts were allen head
> > on one side, recessed nut on the other. That suggests a need for a
> > bolt with the "correct" size head.
>
> Standard Allen bolt and standard hex nut. Every hardware store should
> have them.
Um, how many binder bolts have you broken? The classic style is
available at any shop for $5. What an odd thing to "standardize" when
you promote weird tire sizes and shellacking bar tape.
|
| | | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 08:54:56
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
In article <1183947517.691793.215750@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com >,
landotter <landotter@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 8, 9:05 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > In article <jam293dafkos3beo2o6nmb0umouud1r...@4ax.com>,
> > still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 15:54:40 -0500, Tim McNamara
> > > <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> >
> > > >They don't stock M6 bolts? Maybe you should stop in and verify
> > > >this rather surprising assertion.
> >
> > > M6? Yes. They have them in a lovely shade of red mostly. Might go
> > > nicely with some frames. But, I thought the Riv bolts were allen
> > > head on one side, recessed nut on the other. That suggests a need
> > > for a bolt with the "correct" size head.
> >
> > Standard Allen bolt and standard hex nut.
> > Every hardware store should have them.
>
> Um, how many binder bolts have you broken?
Two. But that *is* in 40+ years of riding bikes. One was a Simplex
style bolt, the other was one of those newfangled collar things.
> The classic style is available at any shop for $5.
Which is great, if you break one near a bike shop. Outside of American
and European bike shops, standard seat post bolts are weird nonstandard
things.
> What an odd thing to "standardize" when you promote weird tire sizes
> and shellacking bar tape.
The majority of tires Rivendell sells are 700 x 28 mm. I didn't know
that was a weird size. 650B has been an existing standard for nearly
100 years, used in France, England, Sweden and other places. Just not
much in the US which is, thankfully, not the center of the universe
despite our pretensions to the contrary. You might think it's weird,
but in a fair amount of the world it isn't.
More people in the world use the 28 x 1 1/2 (635 mm) size than use the
559, 622 or 630 mm sizes. In much of the world your 700C wheels would
be considered weird. Better stay home so you don't have to worry about
these things. ;-)
|
| | | | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 19:48:48
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
Tim McNamara wrote:
> ...Just not
> much in the US which is, thankfully, not the center of the universe
> despite our pretensions to the contrary....
Bah! Philo, Illinois is the Center of the Universe.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | | | | |
Date: 11 Jul 2007 21:25:20
From: John Thompson
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On 2007-07-10, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Tim McNamara wrote:
>> ...Just not
>> much in the US which is, thankfully, not the center of the universe
>> despite our pretensions to the contrary....
> Bah! Philo, Illinois is the Center of the Universe.
Now *THAT'S* a scary thought...
--
John (john@os2.dhs.org)
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 11 Jul 2007 23:25:10
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
John Thompson wrote:
> On 2007-07-10, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>
>> Tim McNamara wrote:
>>> ...Just not
>>> much in the US which is, thankfully, not the center of the universe
>>> despite our pretensions to the contrary....
>
>> Bah! Philo, Illinois is the Center of the Universe.
>
> Now *THAT'S* a scary thought...
It says so on the Philo elevated water tank, so it must be true!
Besides, the best cycling route from Urbana to Block passes through Philo.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 12 Jul 2007 08:42:30
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
In article <4695a0f9$0$16321$88260bb3@free.teranews.com >,
Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote:
> John Thompson wrote:
> > On 2007-07-10, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
> >
> >> Tim McNamara wrote:
> >>> ...Just not much in the US which is, thankfully, not the center
> >>> of the universe despite our pretensions to the contrary....
> >
> >> Bah! Philo, Illinois is the Center of the Universe.
> >
> > Now *THAT'S* a scary thought...
>
> It says so on the Philo elevated water tank, so it must be true!
> Besides, the best cycling route from Urbana to Block passes through
> Philo.
It's a place with a lot of dough.
|
| | | | |
Date: 09 Jul 2007 10:27:59
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
"Tim McNamara" <timmcn@bitstream.net > wrote in message
news:timmcn-C4ADB1.08545609072007@news.iphouse.com...
> In article <1183947517.691793.215750@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> landotter <landotter@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip >
> > Um, how many binder bolts have you broken?
>
> Two. But that *is* in 40+ years of riding bikes. One was a Simplex
> style bolt, the other was one of those newfangled collar things.
>
I used to use Campy seatpost bolts on all the frames that they would fit -
both on my own bikes and for customers. They were the best plus they
looked classy.
At some point quite a few years ago they started making them too hard (or
maybe hydrogen embrittlement from the chrome plating) and they would break
with the slightest overtightening.
I had it happen again last summer on a frame I was putting togther so I
guess they haven't improved much over the years.
I've probably broken off at least 20 of the 2 piece hex key seatpost bolts
over a 35 year period. I've never had a problem with any seat tube clamp
that used standard socket head screws, just the chrome plated 2 piece jobs
from various makers.
Why have I overtightened so many seat post bolts? Have you ever had a seat
slide down while riding because the clamp wasn't tight enough?
I've found a lot of out of round seat tubes and undersized seatposts. I
have an adjustable reamer that I use to clean up seat tubes when necessary
and at a minimum I run a brake cylinder hone on an electric drill down the
seat tube to clear out paint and corrosion.
Over the years, after periods of not riding, I had to adjust my seat a lot
when I got back on the bike. During these times I'v always carried a spare
seatpost bolt.
I'm currently using some 2 piece chrome plated chrome-moly bolts made in
Taiwan. They look nice and are plenty strong.
Chas.
<snip >
>
> The majority of tires Rivendell sells are 700 x 28 mm. I didn't know
> that was a weird size. 650B has been an existing standard for nearly
> 100 years, used in France, England, Sweden and other places. Just not
> much in the US which is, thankfully, not the center of the universe
> despite our pretensions to the contrary. You might think it's weird,
> but in a fair amount of the world it isn't.
>
> More people in the world use the 28 x 1 1/2 (635 mm) size than use the
> 559, 622 or 630 mm sizes. In much of the world your 700C wheels would
> be considered weird. Better stay home so you don't have to worry about
> these things. ;-)
Yes, 28 x 1 1/2 on rod braked of band braked 50 Lb. beasts used for basic
transportation throughout much of the "3rd World" plus Japan, Korea,
Taiwan and parts of Europe.
Chas.
|
| |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 19:44:52
From: landotter
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 7, 2:32 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> landotter? wrote:
> > On Jul 7, 11:42 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> The 650B movement is moving! According to Reknown Framebuilder Kirk
> >> Pacenti, there is an interest by *8 or 9 BIG mfrs* to fill in the 26"
> >> and 29er size tires with the new 27.5 inch size (that's reads: 650B to
> >> many).
>
> > What about the 600A size at 540mm? Think of all the stumpy people that
> > want road bikes that could benefit from this size! Think of the
> > children!!
>
> We are introducing the ISO 626-mm tire to satisfy those discriminating
> cyclists who find the ISO 622-mm (700C) too small, but the ISO 630-mm
> (27-inch) too large.
>
> Out next product will be a folder with ISO 352-mm wheels, which will
> offer a significant advantage over the smaller ISO 349-mm Brompton
> wheels while being much more compact than the Birdy with its ISO 355-mm
> wheels.
>
All silliness aside, there actually is a 600A size over there in Old
Europe.
|
| | |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 18:53:06
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
>>> bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> The 650B movement is moving! According to Reknown Framebuilder Kirk
>>>> Pacenti, there is an interest by *8 or 9 BIG mfrs* to fill in the 26"
>>>> and 29er size tires with the new 27.5 inch size (that's reads: 650B to
>>>> many).
>> landotter wrote:
>>> What about the 600A size at 540mm? Think of all the stumpy people that
>>> want road bikes that could benefit from this size! Think of the
>>> children!!
> Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> We are introducing the ISO 626-mm tire to satisfy those discriminating
>> cyclists who find the ISO 622-mm (700C) too small, but the ISO 630-mm
>> (27-inch) too large.
>> Out next product will be a folder with ISO 352-mm wheels, which will
>> offer a significant advantage over the smaller ISO 349-mm Brompton
>> wheels while being much more compact than the Birdy with its ISO 355-mm
>> wheels.
landotter wrote:
> All silliness aside, there actually is a 600A size over there in Old
> Europe.
Beyond silliness. World's Most Annoying Tire Format; There are -540 and
also -541; one never seems to have the right diameter tire in the
desired model.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 15:18:40
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
landotter? wrote:
> On Jul 7, 2:32 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> landotter? wrote:
>>> On Jul 7, 11:42 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> The 650B movement is moving! According to Reknown Framebuilder Kirk
>>>> Pacenti, there is an interest by *8 or 9 BIG mfrs* to fill in the 26"
>>>> and 29er size tires with the new 27.5 inch size (that's reads: 650B to
>>>> many).
>>> What about the 600A size at 540mm? Think of all the stumpy people that
>>> want road bikes that could benefit from this size! Think of the
>>> children!!
>> We are introducing the ISO 626-mm tire to satisfy those discriminating
>> cyclists who find the ISO 622-mm (700C) too small, but the ISO 630-mm
>> (27-inch) too large.
>>
>> Out next product will be a folder with ISO 352-mm wheels, which will
>> offer a significant advantage over the smaller ISO 349-mm Brompton
>> wheels while being much more compact than the Birdy with its ISO 355-mm
>> wheels.
>>
> All silliness aside, there actually is a 600A size over there in Old
> Europe.
Aka ISO 540-mm and 24x1-3/8-inch tire. The ISO 540-mm size was used on
the first generation ATP Vision Saber and according to Sheldon Brown [1]
is commonly found on wheelchairs and British juvenile bicycles.
[1] <http://sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html >.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 19:02:51
From: landotter
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 7, 11:42 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> The 650B movement is moving! According to Reknown Framebuilder Kirk
> Pacenti, there is an interest by *8 or 9 BIG mfrs* to fill in the 26"
> and 29er size tires with the new 27.5 inch size (that's reads: 650B to
> many).
What about the 600A size at 540mm? Think of all the stumpy people that
want road bikes that could benefit from this size! Think of the
children!!
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| | |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 18:42:26
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
> On Jul 7, 11:42 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> The 650B movement is moving! According to Reknown Framebuilder Kirk
>> Pacenti, there is an interest by *8 or 9 BIG mfrs* to fill in the 26"
>> and 29er size tires with the new 27.5 inch size (that's reads: 650B to
>> many).
landotter wrote:
> What about the 600A size at 540mm? Think of all the stumpy people that
> want road bikes that could benefit from this size! Think of the
> children!!
For that matter, 406mm; there are literally dozens of models/styles
mainly under ten bucks. Even cheaper at XMart with 24x7 tire/tube
availability.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 14:32:00
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
landotter? wrote:
> On Jul 7, 11:42 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> The 650B movement is moving! According to Reknown Framebuilder Kirk
>> Pacenti, there is an interest by *8 or 9 BIG mfrs* to fill in the 26"
>> and 29er size tires with the new 27.5 inch size (that's reads: 650B to
>> many).
>
> What about the 600A size at 540mm? Think of all the stumpy people that
> want road bikes that could benefit from this size! Think of the
> children!!
We are introducing the ISO 626-mm tire to satisfy those discriminating
cyclists who find the ISO 622-mm (700C) too small, but the ISO 630-mm
(27-inch) too large.
Out next product will be a folder with ISO 352-mm wheels, which will
offer a significant advantage over the smaller ISO 349-mm Brompton
wheels while being much more compact than the Birdy with its ISO 355-mm
wheels.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 10 Jul 2007 19:25:48
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 20:15:10 -0700, Michael Press wrote:
> In article
> <timmcn-1A8986.16172408072007@news.iphouse.com>,
> Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
>> Exactly. But people do, lots of the time. You'd think Grant Petersen
>> was personally inoculating mosquitos with West Nile virus.
>
> He is?
>
The same way Jobst Brandt eats children.
/hides.
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
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| | | |
Date: 08 Jul 2007 14:21:50
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 8, 4:09 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net > wrote:
> In article <X4aki.242048$dC2.139...@newsfe13.lga>,
> Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 09:46:46 -0700, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
> > > Oh ya.....lessee now, Riv is so concerned about the welfare of
> > > their customers that they provide an easy-to-find-anywhere binder
> > > bolt, but want them to buy hard-to-find-anywhere wheels and tires!
>
> I can go to my LBS and have my choice of two different model of 650B
> rims
Wow!!! *Two*!!!! different rims!
>and four models of 650B tires
WOW!!! *Four, count 'em _four_ * models of tires!!!!
>not to mention three models of
> bicycles, so they are not "hard-to-find-anywhere" (except maybe at
> Ozark's shop).
Not one (count 'em, not one!) shop *anywhere* around here stocks any
650B.
>
> Ozark- who generally acts like an idiot on r.b.t. and is best ignored-
...and screw you, Timmy McNamara - clear enough for ya?
|
| | | |
Date: 08 Jul 2007 20:04:00
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 11:54:44 -0700, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
> What problem is being solved in a *new* frame "designed" to use the
> moribund 650B wheel size v. 559 ("26 inch") or 622 ("700C")?
>
> The very small number of riders seeking to convert a very small number
> of supposedly narrow clearance frames from 700C to 650B is another
> matter entirely. Those numbers are a flyspeck in the ocean.
And once again-- so what?
The only guys offering new, purpose-built 650B frames are low-volume,
high-price framebuilders, whose target market has both the money to pay
for their products and a full understanding of its potential shortcomings
and risks.
A flyspeck in the ocean, as you say. So why get your blood pressure up
worrying about it? It's not as if the 650B "movement" is being rammed
down the throats of the consuming masses, or that the existing 559 and 622
wheel sizes are being withdrawn.
>>, and that rider isn't
>> too fussed about the spotty availability, so what?
>
>
> Ask a Raleigh Portage owner....
Sure; tires for the Raleigh DL-1 aren't too available in the U.S. either.
But plenty of rod-brake "sit-up-and-beg" roadsters are still running
reliably everywhere in the world.
It's a big ocean--why get worked-up about a flyspeck?
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
|
| | | | |
Date: 08 Jul 2007 16:17:24
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
In article <Qqbki.10191$K73.672@newsfe13.lga >,
Luigi de Guzman <luigi12081@cox.net > wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 11:54:44 -0700, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
> >
> > What problem is being solved in a *new* frame "designed" to use the
> > moribund 650B wheel size v. 559 ("26 inch") or 622 ("700C")?
> >
> > The very small number of riders seeking to convert a very small
> > number of supposedly narrow clearance frames from 700C to 650B is
> > another matter entirely. Those numbers are a flyspeck in the ocean.
>
> And once again-- so what?
>
> The only guys offering new, purpose-built 650B frames are low-volume,
> high-price framebuilders, whose target market has both the money to
> pay for their products and a full understanding of its potential
> shortcomings and risks.
Is Quality Bicycle Products a "low volume, high price framebuilder?"
They distribute the Bleriot 650B frame which will set you back $750
(very high priced as far as most people are concerned, as most people
don't want to spend that much for a whole bike). Any bike shop with a
QBP account can stock them. Or you can buy a Kogswell P/R 650B frame
which is $540. For the more parsimonious or people who enjoy tinkering,
it's quite straightforward to convert many 700C frames to take 650Bs.
> A flyspeck in the ocean, as you say. So why get your blood pressure
> up worrying about it? It's not as if the 650B "movement" is being
> rammed down the throats of the consuming masses, or that the existing
> 559 and 622 wheel sizes are being withdrawn.
>
> >> and that rider isn't too fussed about the spotty availability, so
> >> what?
> >
> > Ask a Raleigh Portage owner....
>
> Sure; tires for the Raleigh DL-1 aren't too available in the U.S.
> either. But plenty of rod-brake "sit-up-and-beg" roadsters are still
> running reliably everywhere in the world.
>
> It's a big ocean--why get worked-up about a flyspeck?
Exactly. But people do, lots of the time. You'd think Grant Petersen
was personally inoculating mosquitos with West Nile virus.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 08 Jul 2007 20:15:10
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
In article
<timmcn-1A8986.16172408072007@news.iphouse.com >,
Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net > wrote:
> Exactly. But people do, lots of the time. You'd think Grant Petersen
> was personally inoculating mosquitos with West Nile virus.
He is?
--
Michael Press
|
| | | |
Date: 08 Jul 2007 11:54:44
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 8, 1:32 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net > wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 09:46:46 -0700, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
> > Oh ya.....lessee now, Riv is so concerned about the welfare of their
> > customers that they provide an easy-to-find-anywhere binder bolt, but
> > want them to buy hard-to-find-anywhere wheels and tires!
>
> I really don't understand where the antipathy is coming from. If the
> wheel/tire combination solves one rider's problem
What problem is being solved in a *new* frame "designed" to use the
moribund 650B wheel size v. 559 ("26 inch") or 622 ("700C")?
The very small number of riders seeking to convert a very small number
of supposedly narrow clearance frames from 700C to 650B is another
matter entirely. Those numbers are a flyspeck in the ocean.
>, and that rider isn't
> too fussed about the spotty availability, so what?
Ask a Raleigh Portage owner....
>
>
>
> > Silly me, I keep forgetting that binder bolts are routinely replaced,
> > but tires last the life of the frame! ;-)
>
> --
|
| | | | |
Date: 08 Jul 2007 20:15:35
From: still me
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 11:54:44 -0700, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
>What problem is being solved in a *new* frame "designed" to use the
>moribund 650B wheel size v. 559 ("26 inch") or 622 ("700C")?
At least we can all take solace in the fact that there's no 800 lb
gorilla in the industry like Microsoft who can simply adopt some new
"standard" that they've developed specifically to make another area of
their industry proprietary, force it down the throats of users, and
thereby move further along their path to world domination.
|
| | | | |
Date: 08 Jul 2007 12:55:33
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
"Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote in message
news:1183920884.378347.264450@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 8, 1:32 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net> wrote:
> > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 09:46:46 -0700, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> >
> > > Oh ya.....lessee now, Riv is so concerned about the welfare of their
> > > customers that they provide an easy-to-find-anywhere binder bolt,
but
> > > want them to buy hard-to-find-anywhere wheels and tires!
> >
> > I really don't understand where the antipathy is coming from. If the
> > wheel/tire combination solves one rider's problem
>
> What problem is being solved in a *new* frame "designed" to use the
> moribund 650B wheel size v. 559 ("26 inch") or 622 ("700C")?
>
> The very small number of riders seeking to convert a very small number
> of supposedly narrow clearance frames from 700C to 650B is another
> matter entirely. Those numbers are a flyspeck in the ocean.
>
>
> >, and that rider isn't
> > too fussed about the spotty availability, so what?
>
>
> Ask a Raleigh Portage owner....
> >
I can see folks needing 650B tires on small sized frames or frames with
minimal clearance with 700Cs but come on....
700C tires or tyres are available in sizes from 18mm to 52mm with just
about any kind of tread from slicks to humongous MTB knobbies.
What more could you want?
Chas.
|
| | | |
Date: 08 Jul 2007 18:32:23
From: Luigi de Guzman
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 09:46:46 -0700, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
> Oh ya.....lessee now, Riv is so concerned about the welfare of their
> customers that they provide an easy-to-find-anywhere binder bolt, but
> want them to buy hard-to-find-anywhere wheels and tires!
I really don't understand where the antipathy is coming from. If the
wheel/tire combination solves one rider's problem, and that rider isn't
too fussed about the spotty availability, so what?
>
> Silly me, I keep forgetting that binder bolts are routinely replaced,
> but tires last the life of the frame! ;-)
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com
|
| | | | |
Date: 08 Jul 2007 16:09:19
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
In article <X4aki.242048$dC2.139604@newsfe13.lga >,
Luigi de Guzman <luigi12081@cox.net > wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 09:46:46 -0700, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> >
> > Oh ya.....lessee now, Riv is so concerned about the welfare of
> > their customers that they provide an easy-to-find-anywhere binder
> > bolt, but want them to buy hard-to-find-anywhere wheels and tires!
I can go to my LBS and have my choice of two different model of 650B
rims and four models of 650B tires not to mention three models of
bicycles, so they are not "hard-to-find-anywhere" (except maybe at
Ozark's shop).
Ozark- who generally acts like an idiot on r.b.t. and is best ignored-
is obviously not able to get an account with QBP, or he'd know that 650B
is now an easy-to-get size. Whether or not shops *want* to stock 650B
is of course up to them, but at least they *can* stock 650B quite
easily. Anybody in the US can obtain 650B equipment pretty much
overnight now, even if their LBS doesn't stock it.
> I really don't understand where the antipathy is coming from. If the
> wheel/tire combination solves one rider's problem, and that rider
> isn't too fussed about the spotty availability, so what?
There is an astonishing hostility towards Grant Petersen on Usenet. It
started when Petersen was at Bridgestone and has continued since. I
find it quite amusing that there is so much negative energy focused on a
guy who runs a tiny bike business in a suburb of San Francisco, who
basically just sells the stuff he likes to use. I particularly enjoy
the attempts to label Rivendell customers as a "cult" that comes from
the cult of newer-better-lighter members. Of course, every good cultist
believes that their particular religion is the One Truth.
|
| | | |
Date: 08 Jul 2007 09:46:46
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 8, 10:52 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net > wrote:
> In article <95n193la1lcusp2sed6vjq3gb1higjg...@4ax.com>,
> still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 00:53:34 -0500, Tim McNamara
> > <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > >http://www.rivbike.com/v/misc/seatlug.jpg.html
>
> > >The nut fits into a recess in the lug to keep it form turning. The
> > >head of the allen bolt fits into a similar recess on the other side.
>
> > You can use a standard bolt, nut, and a couple of washers on most any
> > frame I ride. A couple of wrenches and you're all set, allen head not
> > even needed. That's even better than the proprietary design from Riv.
> > But, a "seatpost bolt" looks a lot nicer. Same with the Riv bike -
> > the bolt and nut thing is so "ug".
>
> > Not to mention, while you can probably find a replacement bolt if you
> > look in the right places, you won't find them in the right length,
> > with the allen head, and in the right material and finish at every
> > hardware store. I know my local hardware store has an extensive
> > selection of small hardware but there's only a box or two of allen
> > head bolts and hitting the right length, material, and finish would
> > be unlikely. Chances are I'd be ordering from McMaster Carr or
> > calling Riv.
>
> > So, it is just another non-standard part that has to be stocked
> > because Riv wanted to fix a problem that didn't exist.
>
> Ya just can't make some people happy, I guess.-
Oh ya.....lessee now, Riv is so concerned about the welfare of their
customers that they provide an easy-to-find-anywhere binder bolt, but
want them to buy hard-to-find-anywhere wheels and tires!
Silly me, I keep forgetting that binder bolts are routinely replaced,
but tires last the life of the frame! ;-)
|
| |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 13:56:01
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
In article <1183826523.613698.15810@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com >,
bfd <bfd853@yahoo.com > wrote:
> You see that?! "MANY OF THESE TIRES ARE ALREADY IN THE HANDS OF SOME
> VERY INFLUENTIAL COMPANIES!!!!" Further, he states "THERE MAY BE AS
> MANY AS 8-9 COMPANIES SHOWING 27.5" MTBs AT INTERBIKE THIS YEAR!!!"
Whoa, there, big fella. Let's not count chickens while they are still
in the shell. "Many" tires and "some" companies still adds up to
vaporware. I'll believe it when I see Trek's 650B offering.
|
| | |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 18:38:58
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
> bfd <bfd853@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> You see that?! "MANY OF THESE TIRES ARE ALREADY IN THE HANDS OF SOME
>> VERY INFLUENTIAL COMPANIES!!!!" Further, he states "THERE MAY BE AS
>> MANY AS 8-9 COMPANIES SHOWING 27.5" MTBs AT INTERBIKE THIS YEAR!!!"
Tim McNamara wrote:
> Whoa, there, big fella. Let's not count chickens while they are still
> in the shell. "Many" tires and "some" companies still adds up to
> vaporware. I'll believe it when I see Trek's 650B offering.
Raleigh Alyeska owners are still bitching about lousy tire selection -
twenty-some years later.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 20:38:14
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
In article <139090td3oh1a37@corp.supernews.com >,
A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> > bfd <bfd853@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> You see that?! "MANY OF THESE TIRES ARE ALREADY IN THE HANDS OF
> >> SOME VERY INFLUENTIAL COMPANIES!!!!" Further, he states "THERE
> >> MAY BE AS MANY AS 8-9 COMPANIES SHOWING 27.5" MTBs AT INTERBIKE
> >> THIS YEAR!!!"
>
> Tim McNamara wrote:
> > Whoa, there, big fella. Let's not count chickens while they are
> > still in the shell. "Many" tires and "some" companies still adds
> > up to vaporware. I'll believe it when I see Trek's 650B offering.
>
> Raleigh Alyeska owners are still bitching about lousy tire selection
> - twenty-some years later.
And they have more choices now than they have had most of those years-
Panaracer Col de la Vie, Grand Bois, Michelin Megamium, Fatty Rumpkin
Maxy Fasty, Schwalbe HS 159, even a cheapie Kenda. Those are just the
ones I know about there may be others. Sadly the very good Mitsuboshi
Trimline has gone tits-up.
But as I say, I'll believe Pacenti and bfd's hype when I see the bikes
on the showroom floor.
|
| | | | |
Date: 08 Jul 2007 22:58:34
From: G.T.
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
Tim McNamara wrote:
> In article <139090td3oh1a37@corp.supernews.com>,
> A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>>> bfd <bfd853@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> You see that?! "MANY OF THESE TIRES ARE ALREADY IN THE HANDS OF
>>>> SOME VERY INFLUENTIAL COMPANIES!!!!" Further, he states "THERE
>>>> MAY BE AS MANY AS 8-9 COMPANIES SHOWING 27.5" MTBs AT INTERBIKE
>>>> THIS YEAR!!!"
>> Tim McNamara wrote:
>>> Whoa, there, big fella. Let's not count chickens while they are
>>> still in the shell. "Many" tires and "some" companies still adds
>>> up to vaporware. I'll believe it when I see Trek's 650B offering.
>> Raleigh Alyeska owners are still bitching about lousy tire selection
>> - twenty-some years later.
>
> And they have more choices now than they have had most of those years-
> Panaracer Col de la Vie, Grand Bois, Michelin Megamium, Fatty Rumpkin
> Maxy Fasty, Schwalbe HS 159, even a cheapie Kenda. Those are just the
> ones I know about there may be others. Sadly the very good Mitsuboshi
> Trimline has gone tits-up.
>
> But as I say, I'll believe Pacenti and bfd's hype when I see the bikes
> on the showroom floor.
And here I thought bfd was being sarcastic, not hypeful.
Greg
--
http://ticketmastersucks.org
Le Petite Dejeuner au Tour de Farce:
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=6131132
|
| |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 11:38:58
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
"bfd" <bfd853@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1183826523.613698.15810@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> The 650B movement is moving! According to Reknown Framebuilder Kirk
> Pacenti, there is an interest by *8 or 9 BIG mfrs* to fill in the 26"
> and 29er size tires with the new 27.5 inch size (that's reads: 650B to
> many). Check it out:
>
> "I received 12 pairs of sample tires from
> Panaracer last week. Many of these tires are
> already in the hands of some very influential
> companies, who are interested in pursuing this
> wheel size to compliment the existing 26 and
> 29 inch standards. There may be as many as 8-9
> companies showing 27.5" wheeled MTB's at
> Interbike this year.
>
> As for a ride report, look for one in Dirt Rag
> in August or September. They have been testing
> my NAHBS show bike and will issue a full
> report soon.
>
> I will be doing several press-releases between
> now and Interbike, as well as "show dailies"
> during the event to promote the tires,
> builders using them and the booths in which
> the bikes are displayed. You all will be
> hearing much more about this wheel size soon.
>
> Any builders interested in the tire specs and
> drawing please contact me off-list. I will be
> happy to answer any questions you might have
> about tires, rims, forks and other components.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Kirk Pacenti"
>
> You see that?! "MANY OF THESE TIRES ARE ALREADY IN THE HANDS OF SOME
> VERY INFLUENTIAL COMPANIES!!!!" Further, he states "THERE MAY BE AS
> MANY AS 8-9 COMPANIES SHOWING 27.5" MTBs AT INTERBIKE THIS YEAR!!!"
>
> 650B or its new name 27.5" is the new thing, are you in? If not, you
> better get with it!!!!!
>
What's there to compliment?
Chas.
|
| |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 12:39:07
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
bfd wrote:
> The 650B movement is moving! According to Reknown Framebuilder Kirk
> Pacenti, there is an interest by *8 or 9 BIG mfrs* to fill in the 26"
> and 29er size tires with the new 27.5 inch size (that's reads: 650B to
> many). Check it out:
>
> "I received 12 pairs of sample tires from
> Panaracer last week. Many of these tires are
> already in the hands of some very influential
> companies, who are interested in pursuing this
> wheel size to compliment the existing 26 and
> 29 inch standards. There may be as many as 8-9
> companies showing 27.5" wheeled MTB's at
> Interbike this year.
>
> As for a ride report, look for one in Dirt Rag
> in August or September. They have been testing
> my NAHBS show bike and will issue a full
> report soon.
>
> I will be doing several press-releases between
> now and Interbike, as well as "show dailies"
> during the event to promote the tires,
> builders using them and the booths in which
> the bikes are displayed. You all will be
> hearing much more about this wheel size soon.
>
> Any builders interested in the tire specs and
> drawing please contact me off-list. I will be
> happy to answer any questions you might have
> about tires, rims, forks and other components.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Kirk Pacenti"
>
> You see that?! "MANY OF THESE TIRES ARE ALREADY IN THE HANDS OF SOME
> VERY INFLUENTIAL COMPANIES!!!!" Further, he states "THERE MAY BE AS
> MANY AS 8-9 COMPANIES SHOWING 27.5" MTBs AT INTERBIKE THIS YEAR!!!"
>
> 650B or its new name 27.5" is the new thing, are you in? If not, you
> better get with it!!!!!
Before we go there, let's all run out to buy 7.5-Volt DC Russian
computer systems! It's a fine standard, all the space station gear runs
on it.
Microsoft? Apple? pssshhhh - all so very 'nineties'
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 09:44:29
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: 650B update - Its coming!
|
On Jul 7, 11:42 am, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> The 650B movement is moving! According to Reknown Framebuilder Kirk
> Pacenti, there is an interest by *8 or 9 BIG mfrs* to fill in the 26"
> and 29er size tires with the new 27.5 inch size (that's reads: 650B to
> many). Check it out:
>
> "I received 12 pairs of sample tires from
> Panaracer last week. Many of these tires are
> already in the hands of some very influential
> companies, who are interested in pursuing this
> wheel size to compliment the existing 26 and
> 29 inch standards. There may be as many as 8-9
> companies showing 27.5" wheeled MTB's at
> Interbike this year.
>
> As for a ride report, look for one in Dirt Rag
> in August or September. They have been testing
> my NAHBS show bike and will issue a full
> report soon.
>
> I will be doing several press-releases between
> now and Interbike, as well as "show dailies"
> during the event to promote the tires,
> builders using them and the booths in which
> the bikes are displayed. You all will be
> hearing much more about this wheel size soon.
>
> Any builders interested in the tire specs and
> drawing please contact me off-list. I will be
> happy to answer any questions you might have
> about tires, rims, forks and other components.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Kirk Pacenti"
>
> You see that?! "MANY OF THESE TIRES ARE ALREADY IN THE HANDS OF SOME
> VERY INFLUENTIAL COMPANIES!!!!" Further, he states "THERE MAY BE AS
> MANY AS 8-9 COMPANIES SHOWING 27.5" MTBs AT INTERBIKE THIS YEAR!!!"
>
> 650B or its new name 27.5" is the new thing, are you in? If not, you
> better get with it!!!!!
So, when are you gonna convert your Calfee to 650B?
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