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Main
Date: 25 Aug 2007 10:26:50
From: Greens
Subject: Bicycle lights
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I've been riding my bike at night. I have a cateye 5 led headlamp powered by
4 AA batteries. It casts a beam a long ways, probably about 150 feet. The
beam is pretty narrow though and it's not anywhere near as bright as a car
headlight. On a dark road with no cars, I can see pretty well. Potholes show
up as black, but I don't really know how deep they are. The cateye just
doesn't light them up enough. The narrow, focused beam also doesn't let me
see things to the right, left, below and above very well. Basically it's a
big dot of light way up ahead the way I've got it aimed right now. If I aim
it down more, it'll be an even more narrow dot, but I'll probably get more
info about the depth of holes and cracks. A disadvantage of the narrow beam
is that it's easy to hit your head on a protruding branch on a trail. That's
happened already.
I know there are halogen bulbs for bikes with huge, rechargeable batteries.
They're lots more expensive, about $200 as opposed to my cateye which is
only $35 or so. Are those halogens bright enough that when a car comes by I
won't totally get blinded by the contrast in light intensity like I do with
the cateye. If I look right at a car right now, I won't be able to see for
about 5 seconds with the cateye.
It would be nice if these light manufacturers mentioned little details like
the blinding effect when your lamp isn't as bright as auto lights. All they
do is talk about how bright their lights are. In the case of this cateye, I
don't believe it would pass reasonable regulations if there were any. It's a
nice flashlight but not roadworthy. You'll know about some of the potholes.
Most people will want to know about all the potholes. I can't imagine
anybody would want to ride blind for 5 or 10 seconds at a stretch.
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Date: 28 Aug 2007 02:41:48
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Bicycle lights
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On Aug 27, 8:10 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
> Greens wrote:
> > I know there are halogen bulbs for bikes with huge, rechargeable batteries.
> > They're lots more expensive, about $200 as opposed to my cateye which is
> > only $35 or so.
>
> Actually you can construct a bright halogen headlight system for well
> under $50, and even the commercial ones are not $200. the battery size
> depends on a) how much you want to spend (Sealed Lead Acid versus NiMH
> versus Lithium Ion versus Lithium Polymer) and b) how long you need
> between charges.
>
> > Are those halogens bright enough that when a car comes by I
> > won't totally get blinded by the contrast in light intensity like I do with
> > the cateye.
>
> Depends on the circumstances. The HID lamps on some luxury vehicles will
> still blind you. Bicycle lights of 15-25 watts should be sufficient for
> most riders.
>
> > It would be nice if these light manufacturers mentioned little details like
> > the blinding effect when your lamp isn't as bright as auto lights. All they
> > do is talk about how bright their lights are. In the case of this cateye, I
> > don't believe it would pass reasonable regulations if there were any.
>
> Most of these lights are for "being seen" or are for relatively low
> speed travel. I don't think the manufacturer represents them as anything
> that they're not, but then again they aren't out there telling potential
> purchasers to buy something brighter.
>
> If you want to make an inexpensive, bright system, buy an Intermatic
> LV505 25 watt Halogen POLY-STAR Lamp or LV504 14 watt Halogen POLY-STAR
> Lamp, a 12 volt SLA battery from All Electronics
> ("http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category/160400/Gel_Cell_(Seale..."),
> and a charger
> ("http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/BC-212/965/12VDC_500MA_2-S...").
> Use an inline switch
> ("http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/PB-21/700325/SPST_PUSHBUTT..."),
> a fuseholder
> ("http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/FHP-25/250/WEATHERPROOF_AT..."),
> and a fuse
> ("http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/FSA-5/245500/5_AMP_BLADE_F...").
>
> You'll also need some wire, and a plastic front reflector bracket.
and here is the answer? an array of lights, one or two bottom forks,
two bars one helmet (with baseball cap or extended visor off course)
star trek!
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Date: 27 Aug 2007 17:10:44
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Bicycle lights
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Greens wrote:
> I know there are halogen bulbs for bikes with huge, rechargeable batteries.
> They're lots more expensive, about $200 as opposed to my cateye which is
> only $35 or so.
Actually you can construct a bright halogen headlight system for well
under $50, and even the commercial ones are not $200. the battery size
depends on a) how much you want to spend (Sealed Lead Acid versus NiMH
versus Lithium Ion versus Lithium Polymer) and b) how long you need
between charges.
> Are those halogens bright enough that when a car comes by I
> won't totally get blinded by the contrast in light intensity like I do with
> the cateye.
Depends on the circumstances. The HID lamps on some luxury vehicles will
still blind you. Bicycle lights of 15-25 watts should be sufficient for
most riders.
> It would be nice if these light manufacturers mentioned little details like
> the blinding effect when your lamp isn't as bright as auto lights. All they
> do is talk about how bright their lights are. In the case of this cateye, I
> don't believe it would pass reasonable regulations if there were any.
Most of these lights are for "being seen" or are for relatively low
speed travel. I don't think the manufacturer represents them as anything
that they're not, but then again they aren't out there telling potential
purchasers to buy something brighter.
If you want to make an inexpensive, bright system, buy an Intermatic
LV505 25 watt Halogen POLY-STAR Lamp or LV504 14 watt Halogen POLY-STAR
Lamp, a 12 volt SLA battery from All Electronics
("http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category/160400/Gel_Cell_(Sealed_Lead_Acid).html"),
and a charger
("http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/BC-212/965/12VDC_500MA_2-STAGE_CHARGER_FOR_LEAD-ACID_BATTERIES_.html").
Use an inline switch
("http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/PB-21/700325/SPST_PUSHBUTTON,_PUSH_ON_PUSH_OFF_.html"),
a fuseholder
("http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/FHP-25/250/WEATHERPROOF_ATC_BLADE-FUSE_HOLDER_.html"),
and a fuse
("http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/FSA-5/245500/5_AMP_BLADE_FUSE_.html").
You'll also need some wire, and a plastic front reflector bracket.
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Date: 27 Aug 2007 00:51:58
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Bicycle lights
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Home Depot sells or sold the 300 cateye as a flashlight.
nooooo reson not to munt twp cateyes one for 'distance'
one for potholes.
foolin' with the distance (up and down adjustment) you'll find cateye
designed focal lens and lumens together with you in mind.
the hot setup is one on the forks near the front axle and one (or two)
on the bars for interferometry.
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Date: 26 Aug 2007 21:40:16
From: Zog The Undeniable
Subject: Re: Bicycle lights
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Greens wrote:
> It would be nice if these light manufacturers mentioned little details like
> the blinding effect when your lamp isn't as bright as auto lights. All they
> do is talk about how bright their lights are. In the case of this cateye, I
> don't believe it would pass reasonable regulations if there were any. It's a
> nice flashlight but not roadworthy. You'll know about some of the potholes.
> Most people will want to know about all the potholes. I can't imagine
> anybody would want to ride blind for 5 or 10 seconds at a stretch.
>
I was on a contraflow cycle path half an hour ago and got flashed by a
Mercedes driver who thought I was blinding him. With a 3 watt Schmidt
dynamo headlamp :-/
The way to go for serious lighting of those potholes is a HID
rechargeable system from Lupine or Lumicycle, but they cost $$$.
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Date: 26 Aug 2007 16:35:39
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Bicycle lights
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buy five
mount one on front bar, one each side, one rear, one hung from neck on
upper back.
that's the problem and solution.
and use a white t-shirt.
see Campmor.com, men's performance T's varitec.
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Date: 26 Aug 2007 16:12:03
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Bicycle lights
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night riding is cool. excellent at the beach. best times are well
after bar closings early in the week. most boulevard's are well lit
and empty (see space photo) avoiding invasive night crime if not
global waste.
In dark areas turn on lights at major intersections. use a yellow
blinkie on the front bars for other cyclists coming your way or
pedestrians. with or without suspicio or paranoia, a headlamp is
necessary for the pedestrain, who could be elderly.
the govrement posts crime stats for your area.
following poster claims an analystic study for bike light visibility
where he claims he instructed club members TO LOOK FOR BIKE LIGHTS.
Cyclists are run down because drivers are NOT looking for bike lights.
reflective strips are what the gov can legislate to the manufacturer
and dealer without inflicting "significant" costs on the consumer that
is subjecting the poor or children to battery costs: a few dead
mexicans is a reasonable cost.
this extends to dayglo!!! as dayglo, the most effective passive night
and day, fades thus causing renal and infestment problems. whote, off
course, darkens without cleaning. this latter is a totally specious
ignorant and excreable agruement for not legislating bright colors or
whites. a white t-shirt OVER WHAT YOU STARTED OUT WITH packed with
YOUR BASEBALL CAP IN YELLOW OR DAYGLO ORANGE OR WHITE (placed in a
plastic bag not in use) is as essentail as a rear lamp, side lamps,
tweo colors bar lamps, blinkies hung from a backpack.
pack two blinkies under the seat with the cap and white t-shirt.
and try the shooter's glasses. so then he sez: "but I don't wear
glasses, I can't..." cool. buy sunglass frames from the thrift and
tape the shooter's over.
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Date: 26 Aug 2007 15:24:37
From:
Subject: Re: Bicycle lights
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On Aug 26, 12:35 am, "Greens" <p...@adelphia.net > wrote:
>
> I've got inch and a half wide reflective strips for my ankles and a
> reflective strip on one side of a frame bag. I don't know what's up with
> that. You'd think they'd put the reflective on both sides of the bag. I do
> want to get more lights. If you're going to be crazy enough to go out at
> night, you better be visible. The manufacturers always make a big deal out
> of the tiny reflective bits they put on clothes and shoes....
I don't describe night riding as "crazy." It's unusual, but only
because most Americans use the evening to enlarge their butts in front
of their TV or in their car. Unusual isn't crazy.
If you're worried about being seen, you should _definitely_ perform a
test. Get a friend to ride your bike at night while you observe from
a passing car. To be thorough, do the observation test at different
angles and in different lighting conditions. I've done this several
times with various cyclists (mostly as part of "night riding
workshops" I arranged for our bike club). We've consistently found
that a bike with a reasonable set of lights and reflectors is very,
very visible - more noticeable at night than in daylight, in fact.
Moving reflectors help a lot, and they don't have to be large.
There's a psychological effect at work, causing people to notice
motion, especially motion occurring in a "human" way - like your pedal
reflectors moving alternately up and down.
Regarding headlights: First, if you're being blinded by oncoming cars
for 5 to 10 seconds, you're looking in the wrong place. You should be
on the right side of the road; the oncoming cars should be on the
opposite side. Don't stare at them. In fact, you got an excellent
tip about using a cap with a visor to block their glare. Try it.
Alternately, if a yahoo motorist insists on high beams, close one of
your eyes to preserve its night vision until he passes.
There is no need to have a headlight as bright as a car's. Those are
designed for moving at 50 mph. And I don't think there's much need to
see how deep a pothole is! If you see one, ride around it, not
through it!
As others on this list know, I'm a fan of good quality generator
lights. I find them to be much less hassle than any battery light,
and I find that they give much better vision than most battery lights
(again, as demonstrated in our club's night rides). In those parts of
the world where bikes are actually used a lot at night, generators are
almost universal. They're about as reliable as your car's lights, and
decent ones take very little energy to run.
Unfortunately, they're a bit hard to find in the US. If you're
interested, here are some sources, listed in increasing order of price
and quality. (These guys are frequent contributors to this discussion
group).
http://www.yellowjersey.org/dynamos.html
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/shimano.html
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt.asp
There are other American sources, of course; and overseas sources,
like St. John's Street Cycles in Britain have very wide selections,
and are as easy to buy from as, say, Nashbar.
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 26 Aug 2007 12:34:01
From: Greens
Subject: Re: Bicycle lights
|
<frkrygow@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1188141877.569709.19390@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 26, 12:35 am, "Greens" <p...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>>
>> I've got inch and a half wide reflective strips for my ankles and a
>> reflective strip on one side of a frame bag. I don't know what's up with
>> that. You'd think they'd put the reflective on both sides of the bag. I
>> do
>> want to get more lights. If you're going to be crazy enough to go out at
>> night, you better be visible. The manufacturers always make a big deal
>> out
>> of the tiny reflective bits they put on clothes and shoes....
>
> I don't describe night riding as "crazy." It's unusual, but only
> because most Americans use the evening to enlarge their butts in front
> of their TV or in their car. Unusual isn't crazy.
>
> If you're worried about being seen, you should _definitely_ perform a
> test. Get a friend to ride your bike at night while you observe from
> a passing car. To be thorough, do the observation test at different
> angles and in different lighting conditions. I've done this several
> times with various cyclists (mostly as part of "night riding
> workshops" I arranged for our bike club). We've consistently found
> that a bike with a reasonable set of lights and reflectors is very,
> very visible - more noticeable at night than in daylight, in fact.
>
> Moving reflectors help a lot, and they don't have to be large.
> There's a psychological effect at work, causing people to notice
> motion, especially motion occurring in a "human" way - like your pedal
> reflectors moving alternately up and down.
>
> Regarding headlights: First, if you're being blinded by oncoming cars
> for 5 to 10 seconds, you're looking in the wrong place. You should be
> on the right side of the road; the oncoming cars should be on the
> opposite side. Don't stare at them. In fact, you got an excellent
> tip about using a cap with a visor to block their glare. Try it.
> Alternately, if a yahoo motorist insists on high beams, close one of
> your eyes to preserve its night vision until he passes.
>
> There is no need to have a headlight as bright as a car's. Those are
> designed for moving at 50 mph. And I don't think there's much need to
> see how deep a pothole is! If you see one, ride around it, not
> through it!
>
> As others on this list know, I'm a fan of good quality generator
> lights. I find them to be much less hassle than any battery light,
> and I find that they give much better vision than most battery lights
> (again, as demonstrated in our club's night rides). In those parts of
> the world where bikes are actually used a lot at night, generators are
> almost universal. They're about as reliable as your car's lights, and
> decent ones take very little energy to run.
>
> Unfortunately, they're a bit hard to find in the US. If you're
> interested, here are some sources, listed in increasing order of price
> and quality. (These guys are frequent contributors to this discussion
> group).
>
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/dynamos.html
>
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/shimano.html
>
> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt.asp
>
> There are other American sources, of course; and overseas sources,
> like St. John's Street Cycles in Britain have very wide selections,
> and are as easy to buy from as, say, Nashbar.
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>
>
>
>
I thought the same thing about doing a test, but so far I've only tested by
rolling past store windows. My tailight shows up nicely. I love this
taillight led blinky from cateye.
http://store.valueweb.com/poweron/catalog/LDT1000%20Taillight_thumb.jpg
The ten lights flash in rapid sequence going from side to side and the
lights on the ends can be seen from the side. I think there might be a
problem with telling how far away I am with these though. I noticed it
myself when I came upon a bicycle with the same system. The pattern does
appear to change when you get close, but I'm not sure that gives the
motorist enough info soon enough. At no time does it make you look like a
person. It doesn't give the scale of person. That would be the best thing
for letting motorists know how far away you are.
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Date: 26 Aug 2007 16:12:09
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Bicycle lights
|
>> On Aug 26, 12:35 am, "Greens" <p...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>>> I've got inch and a half wide reflective strips for my ankles and a
>>> reflective strip on one side of a frame bag. I don't know what's up with
>>> that. You'd think they'd put the reflective on both sides of the bag. I
>>> do
>>> want to get more lights. If you're going to be crazy enough to go out at
>>> night, you better be visible. The manufacturers always make a big deal
>>> out
>>> of the tiny reflective bits they put on clothes and shoes....
> <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote
I don't describe night riding as "crazy." It's unusual, but only
>> because most Americans use the evening to enlarge their butts in front
>> of their TV or in their car. Unusual isn't crazy.
>> If you're worried about being seen, you should _definitely_ perform a
>> test. Get a friend to ride your bike at night while you observe from
>> a passing car. To be thorough, do the observation test at different
>> angles and in different lighting conditions. I've done this several
>> times with various cyclists (mostly as part of "night riding
>> workshops" I arranged for our bike club). We've consistently found
>> that a bike with a reasonable set of lights and reflectors is very,
>> very visible - more noticeable at night than in daylight, in fact.
>>
>> Moving reflectors help a lot, and they don't have to be large.
>> There's a psychological effect at work, causing people to notice
>> motion, especially motion occurring in a "human" way - like your pedal
>> reflectors moving alternately up and down.
>>
>> Regarding headlights: First, if you're being blinded by oncoming cars
>> for 5 to 10 seconds, you're looking in the wrong place. You should be
>> on the right side of the road; the oncoming cars should be on the
>> opposite side. Don't stare at them. In fact, you got an excellent
>> tip about using a cap with a visor to block their glare. Try it.
>> Alternately, if a yahoo motorist insists on high beams, close one of
>> your eyes to preserve its night vision until he passes.
>>
>> There is no need to have a headlight as bright as a car's. Those are
>> designed for moving at 50 mph. And I don't think there's much need to
>> see how deep a pothole is! If you see one, ride around it, not
>> through it!
>>
>> As others on this list know, I'm a fan of good quality generator
>> lights. I find them to be much less hassle than any battery light,
>> and I find that they give much better vision than most battery lights
>> (again, as demonstrated in our club's night rides). In those parts of
>> the world where bikes are actually used a lot at night, generators are
>> almost universal. They're about as reliable as your car's lights, and
>> decent ones take very little energy to run.
>>
>> Unfortunately, they're a bit hard to find in the US. If you're
>> interested, here are some sources, listed in increasing order of price
>> and quality. (These guys are frequent contributors to this discussion
>> group).
>>
>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/dynamos.html
>>
>> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/shimano.html
>>
>> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt.asp
>>
>> There are other American sources, of course; and overseas sources,
>> like St. John's Street Cycles in Britain have very wide selections,
>> and are as easy to buy from as, say, Nashbar.
Greens wrote:
> I thought the same thing about doing a test, but so far I've only tested by
> rolling past store windows. My tailight shows up nicely. I love this
> taillight led blinky from cateye.
> http://store.valueweb.com/poweron/catalog/LDT1000%20Taillight_thumb.jpg
> The ten lights flash in rapid sequence going from side to side and the
> lights on the ends can be seen from the side. I think there might be a
> problem with telling how far away I am with these though. I noticed it
> myself when I came upon a bicycle with the same system. The pattern does
> appear to change when you get close, but I'm not sure that gives the
> motorist enough info soon enough. At no time does it make you look like a
> person. It doesn't give the scale of person. That would be the best thing
> for letting motorists know how far away you are.
Take Frank's advice about an actual at-night test with another rider on
your bike, possibly with you in a car, headlights on, while he rides
past at various angles and distances.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| |
Date: 26 Aug 2007 00:40:12
From: Nate Knutson
Subject: Re: Bicycle lights
|
On Aug 25, 8:48 pm, "Greens" <p...@adelphia.net > wrote:
> "bluezfolk" <eric...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1188058451.806511.152940@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Aug 25, 10:58 am, "Greens" <p...@adelphia.net> wrote:
> >> "A Muzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
>
> >>news:13d0il79b2jembe@corp.supernews.com...
>
> >> > Greens wrote:
> >> >> I've been riding my bike at night. I have a cateye 5 led headlamp
> >> >> powered
> >> >> by 4 AA batteries. It casts a beam a long ways, probably about 150
> >> >> feet.
> >> >> The beam is pretty narrow though and it's not anywhere near as bright
> >> >> as
> >> >> a car headlight. On a dark road with no cars, I can see pretty well.
> >> >> Potholes show up as black, but I don't really know how deep they are.
> >> >> The
> >> >> cateye just doesn't light them up enough. The narrow, focused beam
> >> >> also
> >> >> doesn't let me see things to the right, left, below and above very
> >> >> well.
> >> >> Basically it's a big dot of light way up ahead the way I've got it
> >> >> aimed
> >> >> right now. If I aim it down more, it'll be an even more narrow dot,
> >> >> but
> >> >> I'll probably get more info about the depth of holes and cracks. A
> >> >> disadvantage of the narrow beam is that it's easy to hit your head on
> >> >> a
> >> >> protruding branch on a trail. That's happened already.
>
> >> >> I know there are halogen bulbs for bikes with huge, rechargeable
> >> >> batteries. They're lots more expensive, about $200 as opposed to my
> >> >> cateye which is only $35 or so. Are those halogens bright enough that
> >> >> when a car comes by I won't totally get blinded by the contrast in
> >> >> light
> >> >> intensity like I do with the cateye. If I look right at a car right
> >> >> now,
> >> >> I won't be able to see for about 5 seconds with the cateye.
>
> >> >> It would be nice if these light manufacturers mentioned little details
> >> >> like the blinding effect when your lamp isn't as bright as auto
> >> >> lights.
> >> >> All they do is talk about how bright their lights are. In the case of
> >> >> this cateye, I don't believe it would pass reasonable regulations if
> >> >> there were any. It's a nice flashlight but not roadworthy. You'll know
> >> >> about some of the potholes. Most people will want to know about all
> >> >> the
> >> >> potholes. I can't imagine anybody would want to ride blind for 5 or 10
> >> >> seconds at a stretch.
>
> >> > There are plenty of decent lights between $15 and $200. For example
> >> > Cygo
> >> > 12W (dual beam 6+6 wide and narrow)$60. Stop at any competent LBS and
> >> > test
> >> > a few light sets next to your Cateye. You'll be impressed I think.
>
> >> > And yes do try to look aside as the car passes, just as you would on a
> >> > car
> >> > or motorcycle to lessen the annoying eye aperture change times.
> >> > --
> >> > Andrew Muzi
> >> >www.yellowjersey.org
> >> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
> >> Unfortunately, I'm many miles from a competent LBS. At least I think I
> >> am.
> >> I don't really know what an LBS is. I bought the cateye from an internet
> >> catalog. It was in one of the big mail order bike shops. I wish they'd
> >> been
> >> a little more informative on the Cateye's drawbacks.
>
> > I think that no matter how bright your light is you'll still be
> > temporarilly blinded by oncoming automibiles. Have you given any
> > thought to using 2 headlights aimed at differing elevations?
>
> > Eric
>
> Yes, I have. The cateye only comes with one mount though and it's on my
> girlfriend's bike. (she doesn't do much night riding). If I had another
> mount, I'd pop her headlight off and put it on my bike at a lower angle so
> I'd have a sharper view of the road. Maybe they'd be willing to send me
> another mount at an outrageous price.
wtf? cateye brackets are very easily available either consumer direct
or through any lbs and are reasonably priced. they're also heavily
into cross-compatible brackets, which is good and actually allows
shops to simply stock some cateye brackets. cateye is extremely good
with support for their stuff. http://www.cateye.com/store/categories.php?cid=2
also, you might try using rechargeables and just charge them
frequently. i rode an hl-el300, the first cateye 5 led light, for 2
years, and with fresh batteries found it it to be pretty impressive
even for totally dark conditions, but it does get pretty mediocre as
the batteries lose it.
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| |
Date: 26 Aug 2007 03:56:51
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Bicycle lights
|
wear a baseball cap. always bring a baseball cap.
then try shooters' yellow clipon's from 'yorketowne optical' in
Emigsville
buy two cateyes, three! there's no law ya only mount one cateye.
be creative-get a strobe
i look like the eclectic cyclist with 5 yellow blinkies, one red oval
rear, a wal red rear, an cateye headlamp. the occasional drunk comes
out to cheer me onward! the cops think this is really cool and
everyone is unbearably srupid about this.
|
| | |
Date: 26 Aug 2007 00:35:05
From: Greens
Subject: Re: Bicycle lights
|
"datakoll" <datakoll@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1188100611.353107.183150@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> wear a baseball cap. always bring a baseball cap.
> then try shooters' yellow clipon's from 'yorketowne optical' in
> Emigsville
> buy two cateyes, three! there's no law ya only mount one cateye.
> be creative-get a strobe
> i look like the eclectic cyclist with 5 yellow blinkies, one red oval
> rear, a wal red rear, an cateye headlamp. the occasional drunk comes
> out to cheer me onward! the cops think this is really cool and
> everyone is unbearably srupid about this.
>
>
>
I've got inch and a half wide reflective strips for my ankles and a
reflective strip on one side of a frame bag. I don't know what's up with
that. You'd think they'd put the reflective on both sides of the bag. I do
want to get more lights. If you're going to be crazy enough to go out at
night, you better be visible. The manufacturers always make a big deal out
of the tiny reflective bits they put on clothes and shoes. Everybody talks
about visibility, but nobody does much. You have to add everything on for
yourself. My helmet, which I purchased at a bike shop is... black. Am I
trying to look dignified or invisible? No bright colors were available.
There's no place to attach a headlamp on the helmet unless they make special
lights for slotted helmets.
Some things I've noticed - I go out after midnight. I think it might be
safer than in the day. Many fewer cars and with lights you draw attention
from a long way off. Drivers have a lot of distractions during the day.
Fewer cars is just pure heaven. Cooler temperatures are nice in the summer
too.
|
| | | |
Date: 26 Aug 2007 14:46:28
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Bicycle lights
|
> "datakoll" <datakoll@yahoo.com> wrote
>> wear a baseball cap. always bring a baseball cap.
>> then try shooters' yellow clipon's from 'yorketowne optical' in
>> Emigsville
>> buy two cateyes, three! there's no law ya only mount one cateye.
>> be creative-get a strobe
>> i look like the eclectic cyclist with 5 yellow blinkies, one red oval
>> rear, a wal red rear, an cateye headlamp. the occasional drunk comes
>> out to cheer me onward! the cops think this is really cool and
>> everyone is unbearably srupid about this.
Greens wrote:
> I've got inch and a half wide reflective strips for my ankles and a
> reflective strip on one side of a frame bag. I don't know what's up with
> that. You'd think they'd put the reflective on both sides of the bag. I do
> want to get more lights. If you're going to be crazy enough to go out at
> night, you better be visible. The manufacturers always make a big deal out
> of the tiny reflective bits they put on clothes and shoes. Everybody talks
> about visibility, but nobody does much. You have to add everything on for
> yourself. My helmet, which I purchased at a bike shop is... black. Am I
> trying to look dignified or invisible? No bright colors were available.
> There's no place to attach a headlamp on the helmet unless they make special
> lights for slotted helmets.
>
> Some things I've noticed - I go out after midnight. I think it might be
> safer than in the day. Many fewer cars and with lights you draw attention
> from a long way off. Drivers have a lot of distractions during the day.
> Fewer cars is just pure heaven. Cooler temperatures are nice in the summer
> too.
Light mounts for both headlamps and red blinkies are available for most
(not all) light systems. See any competent LBS. Planet sells a red
blinky with helmet mount (model #3010 BRT-3H) and a four-LED headlamp
with helmet mount (model #3028 SportSpot) among many others. Cygo offers
various helmet kits (longer wire and quick-off mount) for their range
as well. Dealers with these product lines will usually have the helmet
options as well.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| |
Date: 24 Aug 2007 19:32:23
From: Crescentius Vespasianus
Subject: Re: Bicycle lights
|
I always ride with at least two lights.
Put a Princeton Tec EOS light on your
helmet (be sure to get the bike version)
http://www.basegear.com/eosbikelight.html
and when a car comes at you, point
this light on your helmet right in front
of your front wheel and you won't miss a
thing.
On bike lights, unfortunately
flashlights have moved light years ahead
of bike lights. This is what to use if
you want mega-LED light like this
http://www.zombierunner.com/store/product710.html
and mount it with the twofish cygoblock
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=281
|
| |
Date: 25 Aug 2007 17:42:36
From: Kinky Cowboy
Subject: Re: Bicycle lights
|
On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 10:26:50 -0400, "Greens" <prbj@adelphia.net >
wrote:
>I've been riding my bike at night. I have a cateye 5 led headlamp powered by
>4 AA batteries...
I'm using the Cateye HL-EL500 and find it quite good; it's been
superceded by the EL530 http://www.cateye.com/en/product_detail/345 ,
which is the same light with improved opto-electronic package yielding
a claimed 50% increase in output.
If you're looking for cheap, try to find the EL500 on closeout, I got
my second one at less than half price following the introduction of
the EL530. If you were over here, I'd send you to SJSC, who still have
them at 19.99 compared with 42.00 for the new model
Kinky Cowboy*
*Batteries not included
May contain traces of nuts
Your milage may vary
|
| | |
Date: 26 Aug 2007 07:20:24
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Bicycle lights
|
Kinky Cowboy wrote:
>
> I'm using the Cateye HL-EL500 and find it quite good; it's been
> superceded by the EL530 http://www.cateye.com/en/product_detail/345 ,
> which is the same light with improved opto-electronic package yielding
> a claimed 50% increase in output.
>
> If you're looking for cheap, try to find the EL500 on closeout, I got
> my second one at less than half price following the introduction of
> the EL530. If you were over here, I'd send you to SJSC, who still have
> them at 19.99 compared with 42.00 for the new model
>
I have looked at a bunch of different cheap LED headlights--and as I've
seen it, you're almost always better off buying a light that used one
LED set in a proper reflector than you are buying a light that used 5,
10 or 30 LEDs each with a little plastic convex lens in front of each
one. A bunch of LEDs with little crappy frontal lenses won't cast light
nearly as far as one LED in a good reflector will.
The Cateye EL500 and EL530 are both 1-LED lights.
I have some of both, mostly the older 500's. The 530 is a different beam
shape, a tight round spot (roughly the same brightness as the older 500)
but with brighter side-spill. I prefer the 500's beam, which used an
inner cone to spread the central beam out horizontally.
~
|
| |
Date: 25 Aug 2007 16:14:11
From: bluezfolk
Subject: Re: Bicycle lights
|
On Aug 25, 10:58 am, "Greens" <p...@adelphia.net > wrote:
> "A Muzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
>
> news:13d0il79b2jembe@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
>
> > Greens wrote:
> >> I've been riding my bike at night. I have a cateye 5 led headlamp powered
> >> by 4 AA batteries. It casts a beam a long ways, probably about 150 feet.
> >> The beam is pretty narrow though and it's not anywhere near as bright as
> >> a car headlight. On a dark road with no cars, I can see pretty well.
> >> Potholes show up as black, but I don't really know how deep they are. The
> >> cateye just doesn't light them up enough. The narrow, focused beam also
> >> doesn't let me see things to the right, left, below and above very well.
> >> Basically it's a big dot of light way up ahead the way I've got it aimed
> >> right now. If I aim it down more, it'll be an even more narrow dot, but
> >> I'll probably get more info about the depth of holes and cracks. A
> >> disadvantage of the narrow beam is that it's easy to hit your head on a
> >> protruding branch on a trail. That's happened already.
>
> >> I know there are halogen bulbs for bikes with huge, rechargeable
> >> batteries. They're lots more expensive, about $200 as opposed to my
> >> cateye which is only $35 or so. Are those halogens bright enough that
> >> when a car comes by I won't totally get blinded by the contrast in light
> >> intensity like I do with the cateye. If I look right at a car right now,
> >> I won't be able to see for about 5 seconds with the cateye.
>
> >> It would be nice if these light manufacturers mentioned little details
> >> like the blinding effect when your lamp isn't as bright as auto lights.
> >> All they do is talk about how bright their lights are. In the case of
> >> this cateye, I don't believe it would pass reasonable regulations if
> >> there were any. It's a nice flashlight but not roadworthy. You'll know
> >> about some of the potholes. Most people will want to know about all the
> >> potholes. I can't imagine anybody would want to ride blind for 5 or 10
> >> seconds at a stretch.
>
> > There are plenty of decent lights between $15 and $200. For example Cygo
> > 12W (dual beam 6+6 wide and narrow)$60. Stop at any competent LBS and test
> > a few light sets next to your Cateye. You'll be impressed I think.
>
> > And yes do try to look aside as the car passes, just as you would on a car
> > or motorcycle to lessen the annoying eye aperture change times.
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi
> >www.yellowjersey.org
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
> Unfortunately, I'm many miles from a competent LBS. At least I think I am.
> I don't really know what an LBS is. I bought the cateye from an internet
> catalog. It was in one of the big mail order bike shops. I wish they'd been
> a little more informative on the Cateye's drawbacks.
I think that no matter how bright your light is you'll still be
temporarilly blinded by oncoming automibiles. Have you given any
thought to using 2 headlights aimed at differing elevations?
Eric
|
| | |
Date: 25 Aug 2007 23:48:51
From: Greens
Subject: Re: Bicycle lights
|
"bluezfolk" <ericreh@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1188058451.806511.152940@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 25, 10:58 am, "Greens" <p...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>> "A Muzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
>>
>> news:13d0il79b2jembe@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > Greens wrote:
>> >> I've been riding my bike at night. I have a cateye 5 led headlamp
>> >> powered
>> >> by 4 AA batteries. It casts a beam a long ways, probably about 150
>> >> feet.
>> >> The beam is pretty narrow though and it's not anywhere near as bright
>> >> as
>> >> a car headlight. On a dark road with no cars, I can see pretty well.
>> >> Potholes show up as black, but I don't really know how deep they are.
>> >> The
>> >> cateye just doesn't light them up enough. The narrow, focused beam
>> >> also
>> >> doesn't let me see things to the right, left, below and above very
>> >> well.
>> >> Basically it's a big dot of light way up ahead the way I've got it
>> >> aimed
>> >> right now. If I aim it down more, it'll be an even more narrow dot,
>> >> but
>> >> I'll probably get more info about the depth of holes and cracks. A
>> >> disadvantage of the narrow beam is that it's easy to hit your head on
>> >> a
>> >> protruding branch on a trail. That's happened already.
>>
>> >> I know there are halogen bulbs for bikes with huge, rechargeable
>> >> batteries. They're lots more expensive, about $200 as opposed to my
>> >> cateye which is only $35 or so. Are those halogens bright enough that
>> >> when a car comes by I won't totally get blinded by the contrast in
>> >> light
>> >> intensity like I do with the cateye. If I look right at a car right
>> >> now,
>> >> I won't be able to see for about 5 seconds with the cateye.
>>
>> >> It would be nice if these light manufacturers mentioned little details
>> >> like the blinding effect when your lamp isn't as bright as auto
>> >> lights.
>> >> All they do is talk about how bright their lights are. In the case of
>> >> this cateye, I don't believe it would pass reasonable regulations if
>> >> there were any. It's a nice flashlight but not roadworthy. You'll know
>> >> about some of the potholes. Most people will want to know about all
>> >> the
>> >> potholes. I can't imagine anybody would want to ride blind for 5 or 10
>> >> seconds at a stretch.
>>
>> > There are plenty of decent lights between $15 and $200. For example
>> > Cygo
>> > 12W (dual beam 6+6 wide and narrow)$60. Stop at any competent LBS and
>> > test
>> > a few light sets next to your Cateye. You'll be impressed I think.
>>
>> > And yes do try to look aside as the car passes, just as you would on a
>> > car
>> > or motorcycle to lessen the annoying eye aperture change times.
>> > --
>> > Andrew Muzi
>> >www.yellowjersey.org
>> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>
>> Unfortunately, I'm many miles from a competent LBS. At least I think I
>> am.
>> I don't really know what an LBS is. I bought the cateye from an internet
>> catalog. It was in one of the big mail order bike shops. I wish they'd
>> been
>> a little more informative on the Cateye's drawbacks.
>
> I think that no matter how bright your light is you'll still be
> temporarilly blinded by oncoming automibiles. Have you given any
> thought to using 2 headlights aimed at differing elevations?
>
> Eric
>
Yes, I have. The cateye only comes with one mount though and it's on my
girlfriend's bike. (she doesn't do much night riding). If I had another
mount, I'd pop her headlight off and put it on my bike at a lower angle so
I'd have a sharper view of the road. Maybe they'd be willing to send me
another mount at an outrageous price.
|
| | | |
Date: 26 Aug 2007 14:15:35
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Bicycle lights
|
>>>> Greens wrote:
>>>>> I've been riding my bike at night. I have a cateye 5 led headlamp
>>>>> powered
>>>>> by 4 AA batteries. It casts a beam a long ways, probably about 150
>>>>> feet.
>>>>> The beam is pretty narrow though and it's not anywhere near as bright
>>>>> as
>>>>> a car headlight. On a dark road with no cars, I can see pretty well.
>>>>> Potholes show up as black, but I don't really know how deep they are.
>>>>> The
>>>>> cateye just doesn't light them up enough. The narrow, focused beam
>>>>> also
>>>>> doesn't let me see things to the right, left, below and above very
>>>>> well.
>>>>> Basically it's a big dot of light way up ahead the way I've got it
>>>>> aimed
>>>>> right now. If I aim it down more, it'll be an even more narrow dot,
>>>>> but
>>>>> I'll probably get more info about the depth of holes and cracks. A
>>>>> disadvantage of the narrow beam is that it's easy to hit your head on
>>>>> a
>>>>> protruding branch on a trail. That's happened already.
>>>>> I know there are halogen bulbs for bikes with huge, rechargeable
>>>>> batteries. They're lots more expensive, about $200 as opposed to my
>>>>> cateye which is only $35 or so. Are those halogens bright enough that
>>>>> when a car comes by I won't totally get blinded by the contrast in
>>>>> light
>>>>> intensity like I do with the cateye. If I look right at a car right
>>>>> now,
>>>>> I won't be able to see for about 5 seconds with the cateye.
>>>>> It would be nice if these light manufacturers mentioned little details
>>>>> like the blinding effect when your lamp isn't as bright as auto
>>>>> lights.
>>>>> All they do is talk about how bright their lights are. In the case of
>>>>> this cateye, I don't believe it would pass reasonable regulations if
>>>>> there were any. It's a nice flashlight but not roadworthy. You'll know
>>>>> about some of the potholes. Most people will want to know about all
>>>>> the
>>>>> potholes. I can't imagine anybody would want to ride blind for 5 or 10
>>>>> seconds at a stretch.
>>> "A Muzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote
>>>> There are plenty of decent lights between $15 and $200. For example
>>>> Cygo
>>>> 12W (dual beam 6+6 wide and narrow)$60. Stop at any competent LBS and
>>>> test
>>>> a few light sets next to your Cateye. You'll be impressed I think.
>>>> And yes do try to look aside as the car passes, just as you would on a
>>>> car
>>>> or motorcycle to lessen the annoying eye aperture change times.
>> Greens wrote:
>>> Unfortunately, I'm many miles from a competent LBS. At least I think I
>>> am.
>>> I don't really know what an LBS is. I bought the cateye from an internet
>>> catalog. It was in one of the big mail order bike shops. I wish they'd
>>> been
>>> a little more informative on the Cateye's drawbacks.
> "bluezfolk" <ericreh@yahoo.com> wrote
>> I think that no matter how bright your light is you'll still be
>> temporarilly blinded by oncoming automibiles. Have you given any
>> thought to using 2 headlights aimed at differing elevations?
Greens wrote:
> Yes, I have. The cateye only comes with one mount though and it's on my
> girlfriend's bike. (she doesn't do much night riding). If I had another
> mount, I'd pop her headlight off and put it on my bike at a lower angle so
> I'd have a sharper view of the road. Maybe they'd be willing to send me
> another mount at an outrageous price.
A common request. Any competent LBS will have replacement/second bike
light mounts for various years/brands/models of lights. Cheap $3 to $8
mostly. "Second Bike" kits for Cateye computers are similarly available.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Aug 2007 07:05:00
From: Reid
Subject: Re: Bicycle lights
|
A Muzi wrote:
[snip]
> Greens wrote:
>> Yes, I have. The cateye only comes with one mount though and it's on
>> my girlfriend's bike. (she doesn't do much night riding). If I had
>> another mount, I'd pop her headlight off and put it on my bike at a
>> lower angle so I'd have a sharper view of the road. Maybe they'd be
>> willing to send me another mount at an outrageous price.
>
> A common request. Any competent LBS will have replacement/second bike
> light mounts for various years/brands/models of lights. Cheap $3 to $8
> mostly. "Second Bike" kits for Cateye computers are similarly available.
One of the things I like about Cateye is that they have lots of their
little parts available online.
http://www.cateye.com/store/
I'm not crazy about the shipping cost, but my orders have arrived fast.
|
| |
Date: 25 Aug 2007 10:29:14
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Bicycle lights
|
Greens wrote:
> I've been riding my bike at night. I have a cateye 5 led headlamp powered by
> 4 AA batteries. It casts a beam a long ways, probably about 150 feet. The
> beam is pretty narrow though and it's not anywhere near as bright as a car
> headlight. On a dark road with no cars, I can see pretty well. Potholes show
> up as black, but I don't really know how deep they are. The cateye just
> doesn't light them up enough. The narrow, focused beam also doesn't let me
> see things to the right, left, below and above very well. Basically it's a
> big dot of light way up ahead the way I've got it aimed right now. If I aim
> it down more, it'll be an even more narrow dot, but I'll probably get more
> info about the depth of holes and cracks. A disadvantage of the narrow beam
> is that it's easy to hit your head on a protruding branch on a trail. That's
> happened already.
>
> I know there are halogen bulbs for bikes with huge, rechargeable batteries.
> They're lots more expensive, about $200 as opposed to my cateye which is
> only $35 or so. Are those halogens bright enough that when a car comes by I
> won't totally get blinded by the contrast in light intensity like I do with
> the cateye. If I look right at a car right now, I won't be able to see for
> about 5 seconds with the cateye.
>
> It would be nice if these light manufacturers mentioned little details like
> the blinding effect when your lamp isn't as bright as auto lights. All they
> do is talk about how bright their lights are. In the case of this cateye, I
> don't believe it would pass reasonable regulations if there were any. It's a
> nice flashlight but not roadworthy. You'll know about some of the potholes.
> Most people will want to know about all the potholes. I can't imagine
> anybody would want to ride blind for 5 or 10 seconds at a stretch.
There are plenty of decent lights between $15 and $200. For example Cygo
12W (dual beam 6+6 wide and narrow)$60. Stop at any competent LBS and
test a few light sets next to your Cateye. You'll be impressed I think.
And yes do try to look aside as the car passes, just as you would on a
car or motorcycle to lessen the annoying eye aperture change times.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | |
Date: 25 Aug 2007 11:58:17
From: Greens
Subject: Re: Bicycle lights
|
"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote in message
news:13d0il79b2jembe@corp.supernews.com...
> Greens wrote:
>> I've been riding my bike at night. I have a cateye 5 led headlamp powered
>> by 4 AA batteries. It casts a beam a long ways, probably about 150 feet.
>> The beam is pretty narrow though and it's not anywhere near as bright as
>> a car headlight. On a dark road with no cars, I can see pretty well.
>> Potholes show up as black, but I don't really know how deep they are. The
>> cateye just doesn't light them up enough. The narrow, focused beam also
>> doesn't let me see things to the right, left, below and above very well.
>> Basically it's a big dot of light way up ahead the way I've got it aimed
>> right now. If I aim it down more, it'll be an even more narrow dot, but
>> I'll probably get more info about the depth of holes and cracks. A
>> disadvantage of the narrow beam is that it's easy to hit your head on a
>> protruding branch on a trail. That's happened already.
>>
>> I know there are halogen bulbs for bikes with huge, rechargeable
>> batteries. They're lots more expensive, about $200 as opposed to my
>> cateye which is only $35 or so. Are those halogens bright enough that
>> when a car comes by I won't totally get blinded by the contrast in light
>> intensity like I do with the cateye. If I look right at a car right now,
>> I won't be able to see for about 5 seconds with the cateye.
>>
>> It would be nice if these light manufacturers mentioned little details
>> like the blinding effect when your lamp isn't as bright as auto lights.
>> All they do is talk about how bright their lights are. In the case of
>> this cateye, I don't believe it would pass reasonable regulations if
>> there were any. It's a nice flashlight but not roadworthy. You'll know
>> about some of the potholes. Most people will want to know about all the
>> potholes. I can't imagine anybody would want to ride blind for 5 or 10
>> seconds at a stretch.
>
> There are plenty of decent lights between $15 and $200. For example Cygo
> 12W (dual beam 6+6 wide and narrow)$60. Stop at any competent LBS and test
> a few light sets next to your Cateye. You'll be impressed I think.
>
> And yes do try to look aside as the car passes, just as you would on a car
> or motorcycle to lessen the annoying eye aperture change times.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Unfortunately, I'm many miles from a competent LBS. At least I think I am.
I don't really know what an LBS is. I bought the cateye from an internet
catalog. It was in one of the big mail order bike shops. I wish they'd been
a little more informative on the Cateye's drawbacks.
|
| | | |
Date: 25 Aug 2007 13:55:30
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Bicycle lights
|
>> Greens wrote:
>>> I've been riding my bike at night. I have a cateye 5 led headlamp powered
>>> by 4 AA batteries. It casts a beam a long ways, probably about 150 feet.
>>> The beam is pretty narrow though and it's not anywhere near as bright as
>>> a car headlight. On a dark road with no cars, I can see pretty well.
>>> Potholes show up as black, but I don't really know how deep they are. The
>>> cateye just doesn't light them up enough. The narrow, focused beam also
>>> doesn't let me see things to the right, left, below and above very well.
>>> Basically it's a big dot of light way up ahead the way I've got it aimed
>>> right now. If I aim it down more, it'll be an even more narrow dot, but
>>> I'll probably get more info about the depth of holes and cracks. A
>>> disadvantage of the narrow beam is that it's easy to hit your head on a
>>> protruding branch on a trail. That's happened already.
>>>
>>> I know there are halogen bulbs for bikes with huge, rechargeable
>>> batteries. They're lots more expensive, about $200 as opposed to my
>>> cateye which is only $35 or so. Are those halogens bright enough that
>>> when a car comes by I won't totally get blinded by the contrast in light
>>> intensity like I do with the cateye. If I look right at a car right now,
>>> I won't be able to see for about 5 seconds with the cateye.
>>>
>>> It would be nice if these light manufacturers mentioned little details
>>> like the blinding effect when your lamp isn't as bright as auto lights.
>>> All they do is talk about how bright their lights are. In the case of
>>> this cateye, I don't believe it would pass reasonable regulations if
>>> there were any. It's a nice flashlight but not roadworthy. You'll know
>>> about some of the potholes. Most people will want to know about all the
>>> potholes. I can't imagine anybody would want to ride blind for 5 or 10
>>> seconds at a stretch.
> "A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote
>> There are plenty of decent lights between $15 and $200. For example Cygo
>> 12W (dual beam 6+6 wide and narrow)$60. Stop at any competent LBS and test
>> a few light sets next to your Cateye. You'll be impressed I think.
>> And yes do try to look aside as the car passes, just as you would on a car
>> or motorcycle to lessen the annoying eye aperture change times.
Greens wrote:
> Unfortunately, I'm many miles from a competent LBS. At least I think I am.
> I don't really know what an LBS is. I bought the cateye from an internet
> catalog. It was in one of the big mail order bike shops. I wish they'd been
> a little more informative on the Cateye's drawbacks.
Not all that horrible, though. Hey, for the same price you could have
purchased a simple LED blinky with 1/10 the lumens! Or with a special
battery. Cateye lights are good for what they are, your needs may be
different. Light product has exploded exponentially in recent years, $10
to $500 in thousands of steps for every desire or need.
LBS= Local Bicycle Store. The key word was 'competent'.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
|
