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Main
Date: 06 Jun 2007 03:44:46
From:
Subject: Bike Messengers NYC
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Summary:
Keywords:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3123908086916868348
The best part is that the photographer had to also be on a bicycle and
keep up with these riders while not losing a frame or picture angle.
Jobst Brandt
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Date: 11 Jun 2007 14:25:21
From: Tom Keats
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
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In article <136rc0um24p24c4@corp.supernews.com >,
"G.T." <getnews1@dslextreme.com > writes:
>
> <jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message
> news:46685261$0$14063$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>> >
>> I don't know what you were hearing but even block inch pitch chain
>> made no audible noise if the sprockets were not hoooked from running a
>> badly elongated chain. What do you believe makes sound on a fixed
>> gear bicycle that is different from a road bicycle whose chain is
>> inaudible when riding?
>
> Are you saying that the drivetrain on a road bicycle is completely
> inaudible?
I'm using friction shifting, and I sometimes have to ride
close to parked cars to hear what my drivetrain is doing,
and how well the chain is aligned.
If there's nothing there to reflect the sound back to me,
I can't directly hear what's going on. So, in at least
some cases, the drivetrain on a road bicycle indeed /is/
completely inaudible to the rider, although it might be
quite audible to a bystander.
cheers,
Tom
--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
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Date: 09 Jun 2007 14:43:00
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On Jun 9, 4:26 pm, "Carl Sundquist" <carl...@cox.net > wrote:
> "landotter" <landot...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1181423152.114738.323550@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Jun 9, 3:37 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
> >> In article <1181407485.556504.107...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>
> >> landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > On Jun 8, 12:20 am, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> >> > > We do see a lot of home built fixies with excessively tight chain -
> >> > > and
> >> > > all the concomitant expenses. But I assume actual track bikes would
> >> > > get
> >> > > reasonable setup.
>
> >> > When I picked up my specially ordered fixed gear at one shop, and when
> >> > I had my lock ring tightened at their sister store--both times, the
> >> > chain was under serious tension, and both times the shop employees
> >> > insisted that this was absolutely correct. It's not just the poseurs
> >> > in their ringer tees that get this wrong. It's pretty inexcusable--
> >> > being able to correctly tension a chain on a single geared bike seems
> >> > to me to be one of the most basic of wrenching skills. /sigh
>
> >> There have been precious few tests of the effects of chain tension on
> >> drivetrain efficiency, but here's one that says that the higher the
> >> chain tension, the more efficient the drivetrain:
>
> >>http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/news/home99/aug99/bike.html
>
> >> What I don't know is what happens to chain wear in this case, but one
> >> assumes it has to be negatively affected.
>
> >> Of course, one assumes high chain tension would cause lower efficiency,
> >> but that's not so...
>
> > Broken chains are pretty inefficient, but hey, I'm no scientist or
> > nuttin'.
>
> I'm no scientist either, but take your fixed gear bike and put as much
> tension on it as you possibly can. Then spin the wheel and see how may
> revolutions it takes to slow down and stop. Repeat with slight slackage in
> chain.
>
> Rear wheel with slack chain spins longer.
Yes, I've found that to be distinctly true, but please remember that
we are not scientists! :-D
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Date: 09 Jun 2007 21:05:52
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On Jun 9, 3:37 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <1181407485.556504.107...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>
> landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 8, 12:20 am, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> > > We do see a lot of home built fixies with excessively tight chain - and
> > > all the concomitant expenses. But I assume actual track bikes would get
> > > reasonable setup.
>
> > When I picked up my specially ordered fixed gear at one shop, and when
> > I had my lock ring tightened at their sister store--both times, the
> > chain was under serious tension, and both times the shop employees
> > insisted that this was absolutely correct. It's not just the poseurs
> > in their ringer tees that get this wrong. It's pretty inexcusable--
> > being able to correctly tension a chain on a single geared bike seems
> > to me to be one of the most basic of wrenching skills. /sigh
>
> There have been precious few tests of the effects of chain tension on
> drivetrain efficiency, but here's one that says that the higher the
> chain tension, the more efficient the drivetrain:
>
> http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/news/home99/aug99/bike.html
>
> What I don't know is what happens to chain wear in this case, but one
> assumes it has to be negatively affected.
>
> Of course, one assumes high chain tension would cause lower efficiency,
> but that's not so...
>
Broken chains are pretty inefficient, but hey, I'm no scientist or
nuttin'.
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Date: 09 Jun 2007 16:26:47
From: Carl Sundquist
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
"landotter" <landotter@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1181423152.114738.323550@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 9, 3:37 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
>> In article <1181407485.556504.107...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Jun 8, 12:20 am, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>> > > We do see a lot of home built fixies with excessively tight chain -
>> > > and
>> > > all the concomitant expenses. But I assume actual track bikes would
>> > > get
>> > > reasonable setup.
>>
>> > When I picked up my specially ordered fixed gear at one shop, and when
>> > I had my lock ring tightened at their sister store--both times, the
>> > chain was under serious tension, and both times the shop employees
>> > insisted that this was absolutely correct. It's not just the poseurs
>> > in their ringer tees that get this wrong. It's pretty inexcusable--
>> > being able to correctly tension a chain on a single geared bike seems
>> > to me to be one of the most basic of wrenching skills. /sigh
>>
>> There have been precious few tests of the effects of chain tension on
>> drivetrain efficiency, but here's one that says that the higher the
>> chain tension, the more efficient the drivetrain:
>>
>> http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/news/home99/aug99/bike.html
>>
>> What I don't know is what happens to chain wear in this case, but one
>> assumes it has to be negatively affected.
>>
>> Of course, one assumes high chain tension would cause lower efficiency,
>> but that's not so...
>>
>
> Broken chains are pretty inefficient, but hey, I'm no scientist or
> nuttin'.
I'm no scientist either, but take your fixed gear bike and put as much
tension on it as you possibly can. Then spin the wheel and see how may
revolutions it takes to slow down and stop. Repeat with slight slackage in
chain.
Rear wheel with slack chain spins longer.
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Date: 09 Jun 2007 21:34:28
From: John Thompson
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On 2007-06-09, Carl Sundquist <carlsun@cox.net > wrote:
> "landotter" <landotter@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> There have been precious few tests of the effects of chain tension on
>>> drivetrain efficiency, but here's one that says that the higher the
>>> chain tension, the more efficient the drivetrain:
>>>
>>> http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/news/home99/aug99/bike.html
Looking at their experimental setup, it is not clear that they used a
fixed gear drivetrain in their testing. The pictures available all seem
to depict a derailleur drivetrain.
> I'm no scientist either, but take your fixed gear bike and put as much
> tension on it as you possibly can. Then spin the wheel and see how may
> revolutions it takes to slow down and stop. Repeat with slight slackage in
> chain.
>
> Rear wheel with slack chain spins longer.
It does indeed, if if you're really riding fixed (as opposed to single
freewheel), you really need good chain tension else you risk throwing
the chain. Inconvenient on a single freewheel, but potentially very
dangerous on a fixed gear.
--
John (john@os2.dhs.org)
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Date: 09 Jun 2007 22:37:58
From:
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On Sat, 9 Jun 2007 21:34:28 -0500, John Thompson
<john@vector.os2.dhs.org > wrote:
>On 2007-06-09, Carl Sundquist <carlsun@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> "landotter" <landotter@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> There have been precious few tests of the effects of chain tension on
>>>> drivetrain efficiency, but here's one that says that the higher the
>>>> chain tension, the more efficient the drivetrain:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/news/home99/aug99/bike.html
>
>Looking at their experimental setup, it is not clear that they used a
>fixed gear drivetrain in their testing. The pictures available all seem
>to depict a derailleur drivetrain.
>
>> I'm no scientist either, but take your fixed gear bike and put as much
>> tension on it as you possibly can. Then spin the wheel and see how may
>> revolutions it takes to slow down and stop. Repeat with slight slackage in
>> chain.
>>
>> Rear wheel with slack chain spins longer.
>
>It does indeed, if if you're really riding fixed (as opposed to single
>freewheel), you really need good chain tension else you risk throwing
>the chain. Inconvenient on a single freewheel, but potentially very
>dangerous on a fixed gear.
Dear John,
Here's a far more detailed Spicer study:
http://www.ihpva.org/HParchive/PDF/hp50-2000.pdf
I suspect that people are confusing the chain tension on a motionless
fixie with the chain tension on the upper run of sprockets under load.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
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Date: 09 Jun 2007 22:36:53
From: ST
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On 6/9/07 2:26 PM, in article HWEai.21886$6z4.8815@newsfe19.lga, "Carl
Sundquist" <carlsun@cox.net > wrote:
>
> "landotter" <landotter@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1181423152.114738.323550@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jun 9, 3:37 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
>>> In article <1181407485.556504.107...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>>>
>>> landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Jun 8, 12:20 am, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> We do see a lot of home built fixies with excessively tight chain -
>>>>> and
>>>>> all the concomitant expenses. But I assume actual track bikes would
>>>>> get
>>>>> reasonable setup.
>>>
>>>> When I picked up my specially ordered fixed gear at one shop, and when
>>>> I had my lock ring tightened at their sister store--both times, the
>>>> chain was under serious tension, and both times the shop employees
>>>> insisted that this was absolutely correct. It's not just the poseurs
>>>> in their ringer tees that get this wrong. It's pretty inexcusable--
>>>> being able to correctly tension a chain on a single geared bike seems
>>>> to me to be one of the most basic of wrenching skills. /sigh
>>>
>>> There have been precious few tests of the effects of chain tension on
>>> drivetrain efficiency, but here's one that says that the higher the
>>> chain tension, the more efficient the drivetrain:
>>>
>>> http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/news/home99/aug99/bike.html
>>>
>>> What I don't know is what happens to chain wear in this case, but one
>>> assumes it has to be negatively affected.
>>>
>>> Of course, one assumes high chain tension would cause lower efficiency,
>>> but that's not so...
>>>
>>
>> Broken chains are pretty inefficient, but hey, I'm no scientist or
>> nuttin'.
>
> I'm no scientist either, but take your fixed gear bike and put as much
> tension on it as you possibly can. Then spin the wheel and see how may
> revolutions it takes to slow down and stop. Repeat with slight slackage in
> chain.
>
> Rear wheel with slack chain spins longer.
>
This is very true! Been there done that... Higher chance of breaking,
especially if using a road pitch chain on your fixie!!
Someone mentioned something here about noisy fixed gear riders? Tight chains
will do it.. Putting a track pitch chain on road pitch rings or cogs can do
it too.....
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Date: 09 Jun 2007 17:40:13
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
In article <C2907994.9677%no@no.com >, ST <no@no.com>
wrote:
> Someone mentioned something here about noisy fixed gear riders? Tight chains
> will do it.. Putting a track pitch chain on road pitch rings or cogs can do
> it too.....
Track chain pitch and road chain pitch are the same.
Perhaps you refer to width.
--
Michael Press
|
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Date: 09 Jun 2007 22:29:56
From:
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
Carl Sundquist writes:
>>>>> We do see a lot of home built fixies with excessively tight
>>>>> chain - and all the concomitant expenses. But I assume actual
>>>>> track bikes would get reasonable setup.
>>>> When I picked up my specially ordered fixed gear at one shop, and
>>>> when I had my lock ring tightened at their sister store--both
>>>> times, the chain was under serious tension, and both times the
>>>> shop employees insisted that this was absolutely correct. It's
>>>> not just the poseurs in their ringer tees that get this
>>>> wrong. It's pretty inexcusable-- being able to correctly tension
>>>> a chain on a single geared bike seems to me to be one of the most
>>>> basic of wrenching skills. /sigh
>>> There have been precious few tests of the effects of chain tension
>>> on drivetrain efficiency, but here's one that says that the higher
>>> the chain tension, the more efficient the drivetrain:
http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/news/home99/aug99/bike.html
>>> What I don't know is what happens to chain wear in this case, but
>>> one assumes it has to be negatively affected.
>>> Of course, one assumes high chain tension would cause lower
>>> efficiency, but that's not so...
>> Broken chains are pretty inefficient, but hey, I'm no scientist or
>> nuttin'.
> I'm no scientist either, but take your fixed gear bike and put as
> much tension on it as you possibly can. Then spin the wheel and see
> how may revolutions it takes to slow down and stop. Repeat with
> slight slack in chain.
> Rear wheel with slack chain spins longer.
The picture of the chain test, that makes this absurd claim, shows a
derailleur bicycle being measured. That alone discredits the
findings, there being two additional large angle bends in the chain
and two idler wheel bearings not found on a fixed gear, all of which
are affected by friction, the greater the load (tension) the greater
the loss. I don't know how such research can get far enough to be
shown as authoritative proof of a well known concept. It doesn't take
an oscilloscope or computer to assess this. A coast-down test is not
hi-tech enough for such people.
Jobst Brandt
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Date: 09 Jun 2007 16:26:36
From:
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On Sat, 9 Jun 2007 16:26:47 -0500, "Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox.net >
wrote:
>
>"landotter" <landotter@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1181423152.114738.323550@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jun 9, 3:37 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
>>> In article <1181407485.556504.107...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>>>
>>> landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > On Jun 8, 12:20 am, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> > > We do see a lot of home built fixies with excessively tight chain -
>>> > > and
>>> > > all the concomitant expenses. But I assume actual track bikes would
>>> > > get
>>> > > reasonable setup.
>>>
>>> > When I picked up my specially ordered fixed gear at one shop, and when
>>> > I had my lock ring tightened at their sister store--both times, the
>>> > chain was under serious tension, and both times the shop employees
>>> > insisted that this was absolutely correct. It's not just the poseurs
>>> > in their ringer tees that get this wrong. It's pretty inexcusable--
>>> > being able to correctly tension a chain on a single geared bike seems
>>> > to me to be one of the most basic of wrenching skills. /sigh
>>>
>>> There have been precious few tests of the effects of chain tension on
>>> drivetrain efficiency, but here's one that says that the higher the
>>> chain tension, the more efficient the drivetrain:
>>>
>>> http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/news/home99/aug99/bike.html
>>>
>>> What I don't know is what happens to chain wear in this case, but one
>>> assumes it has to be negatively affected.
>>>
>>> Of course, one assumes high chain tension would cause lower efficiency,
>>> but that's not so...
>>>
>>
>> Broken chains are pretty inefficient, but hey, I'm no scientist or
>> nuttin'.
>
>I'm no scientist either, but take your fixed gear bike and put as much
>tension on it as you possibly can. Then spin the wheel and see how may
>revolutions it takes to slow down and stop. Repeat with slight slackage in
>chain.
>
>Rear wheel with slack chain spins longer.
Dear Carl & Ryan,
There may be a misunderstanding here.
What efficiency studies usually show is that greater working chain
tension _on_the_upper_run_ increases efficiency.
That is, at the same speed against the same resistance, a slow-moving
and high-tension chain is more efficient. For the same power, the
faster the chain moves, the lower the tension, and the lower the
efficiency.
Spicer found that efficiency dropped as rpm increased and power was
kept the same. See table 2 on page 7 of this pdf:
http://www.ihpva.org/HParchive/PDF/hp50-2000.pdf
Read across and note that the 52x11 in 2.1 drops from 92.8% to 84.2%
efficiency as rpm increases (and tension decreases) from 40 to 80 rpm.
Same trend for the 52x15 and 52x21--same power, higher rpm, lower
top-run chain tension, lower efficiency.
It gets tricky, since usually we shift to faster moving,
lower-tension, _and_ larger gears, whose size increase improves
efficiency and offsets the tension-related loss of efficiency. Read
_down_ the table and note that bigger gears are more efficient at the
same power and rpm, despite lower chain speed and tension.
In contrast, if you just over-tighten a motionless chain on a
fixed-gear, it becomes harder and harder to turn. You have to increase
the chain tension momentarily just to force the chain past any slight
irregularities in the sprockets.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
|
| | | | |
Date: 09 Jun 2007 22:45:44
From:
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
Carl Fogel writes:
>>>>>> We do see a lot of home built fixies with excessively tight
>>>>>> chain - and all the concomitant expenses. But I assume actual
>>>>>> track bikes would get reasonable setup.
>>>>> When I picked up my specially ordered fixed gear at one shop,
>>>>> and when I had my lock ring tightened at their sister
>>>>> store--both times, the chain was under serious tension, and both
>>>>> times the shop employees insisted that this was absolutely
>>>>> correct. It's not just the poseurs in their ringer tees that get
>>>>> this wrong. It's pretty inexcusable-- being able to correctly
>>>>> tension a chain on a single geared bike seems to me to be one of
>>>>> the most basic of wrenching skills. /sigh
>>>> There have been precious few tests of the effects of chain
>>>> tension on drivetrain efficiency, but here's one that says that
>>>> the higher the chain tension, the more efficient the drivetrain:
http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/news/home99/aug99/bike.html
>>>> What I don't know is what happens to chain wear in this case, but
>>>> one assumes it has to be negatively affected.
>>>> Of course, one assumes high chain tension would cause lower
>>>> efficiency, but that's not so...
>>> Broken chains are pretty inefficient, but hey, I'm no scientist or
>>> nuttin'.
>> I'm no scientist either, but take your fixed gear bike and put as
>> much tension on it as you possibly can. Then spin the wheel and see
>> how may revolutions it takes to slow down and stop. Repeat with
>> slight slack in chain.
>> Rear wheel with slack chain spins longer.
> There may be a misunderstanding here.
> What efficiency studies usually show is that greater working chain
> tension _on_the_upper_run_ increases efficiency.
Let's just say the heading was off base and insufficiently qualified.
Simpler were to say the higher the gear at a given speed, the less
chain power losses there are, they decreasing with speed faster than
link articulation friction increases.
What is unclear, is that if the gear ratio is increased by selecting a
smaller driven sprocket, does the result hold true or must the gear
increase be achieved using a larger drive sprocket? The smaller
driven sprocket increases link articulation, the source of friction
losses in a chain.
The whole subject is so muddled that I believe there is no valid
result.
> That is, at the same speed against the same resistance, a
> slow-moving and high-tension chain is more efficient. For the same
> power, the faster the chain moves, the lower the tension, and the
> lower the efficiency.
> Spicer found that efficiency dropped as rpm increased and power was
> kept the same. See table 2 on page 7 of this pdf:
http://www.ihpva.org/HParchive/PDF/hp50-2000.pdf
This is bad news for the spin addicts.
> Read across and note that the 52x11 in 2.1 drops from 92.8% to 84.2%
> efficiency as rpm increases (and tension decreases) from 40 to 80
> rpm. Same trend for the 52x15 and 52x21--same power, higher rpm,
> lower top-run chain tension, lower efficiency.
> It gets tricky, since usually we shift to faster moving,
> lower-tension, _and_ larger gears, whose size increase improves
> efficiency and offsets the tension-related loss of efficiency. Read
> _down_ the table and note that bigger gears are more efficient at
> the same power and rpm, despite lower chain speed and tension.
> In contrast, if you just over-tighten a motionless chain on a
> fixed-gear, it becomes harder and harder to turn. You have to
> increase the chain tension momentarily just to force the chain past
> any slight irregularities in the sprockets.
Well! That's what the initial claim was all about. Not which gear
gives the greatest mechanical efficiency and why.
Jobst Brandt
|
| | | | |
Date: 09 Jun 2007 22:44:05
From:
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
Carl Fogel writes:
>>>>>> We do see a lot of home built fixies with excessively tight
>>>>>> chain - and all the concomitant expenses. But I assume actual
>>>>>> track bikes would get reasonable setup.
>>>>> When I picked up my specially ordered fixed gear at one shop,
>>>>> and when I had my lock ring tightened at their sister
>>>>> store--both times, the chain was under serious tension, and both
>>>>> times the shop employees insisted that this was absolutely
>>>>> correct. It's not just the poseurs in their ringer tees that get
>>>>> this wrong. It's pretty inexcusable-- being able to correctly
>>>>> tension a chain on a single geared bike seems to me to be one of
>>>>> the most basic of wrenching skills. /sigh
>>>> There have been precious few tests of the effects of chain
>>>> tension on drivetrain efficiency, but here's one that says that
>>>> the higher the chain tension, the more efficient the drivetrain:
http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/news/home99/aug99/bike.html
>>>> What I don't know is what happens to chain wear in this case, but
>>>> one assumes it has to be negatively affected.
>>>> Of course, one assumes high chain tension would cause lower
>>>> efficiency, but that's not so...
>>> Broken chains are pretty inefficient, but hey, I'm no scientist or
>>> nuttin'.
>> I'm no scientist either, but take your fixed gear bike and put as
>> much tension on it as you possibly can. Then spin the wheel and see
>> how may revolutions it takes to slow down and stop. Repeat with
>> slight slack in chain.
>> Rear wheel with slack chain spins longer.
> There may be a misunderstanding here.
> What efficiency studies usually show is that greater working chain
> tension _on_the_upper_run_ increases efficiency.
Let's just say the heading was off base and insufficiently qualified.
Simpler were to say the higher the gear at a given speed, the less
chain power losses there are, they decreasing with speed faster than
link articulation friction increases.
What is unclear, is that if the gear ratio is increased by selecting a
smaller driven sprocket, doe the result hold true or must the gear
increase be achieved using a larger drive sprocket? The smaller
driven sprocket increases link articulation, the source of friction
losses in a chain.
The whole subject is so muddled that I believe there is no valid
result.
> That is, at the same speed against the same resistance, a
> slow-moving and high-tension chain is more efficient. For the same
> power, the faster the chain moves, the lower the tension, and the
> lower the efficiency.
> Spicer found that efficiency dropped as rpm increased and power was
> kept the same. See table 2 on page 7 of this pdf:
http://www.ihpva.org/HParchive/PDF/hp50-2000.pdf
This is bad news for the spin addicts.
> Read across and note that the 52x11 in 2.1 drops from 92.8% to 84.2%
> efficiency as rpm increases (and tension decreases) from 40 to 80
> rpm. Same trend for the 52x15 and 52x21--same power, higher rpm,
> lower top-run chain tension, lower efficiency.
> It gets tricky, since usually we shift to faster moving,
> lower-tension, _and_ larger gears, whose size increase improves
> efficiency and offsets the tension-related loss of efficiency. Read
> _down_ the table and note that bigger gears are more efficient at
> the same power and rpm, despite lower chain speed and tension.
> In contrast, if you just over-tighten a motionless chain on a
> fixed-gear, it becomes harder and harder to turn. You have to
> increase the chain tension momentarily just to force the chain past
> any slight irregularities in the sprockets.
Well! That's what the initial claim was all about. Not which gear
gives the greatest mechanical efficiency and why.
Jobst Brandt
|
| |
Date: 09 Jun 2007 16:44:45
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On Jun 8, 12:20 am, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> We do see a lot of home built fixies with excessively tight chain - and
> all the concomitant expenses. But I assume actual track bikes would get
> reasonable setup.
When I picked up my specially ordered fixed gear at one shop, and when
I had my lock ring tightened at their sister store--both times, the
chain was under serious tension, and both times the shop employees
insisted that this was absolutely correct. It's not just the poseurs
in their ringer tees that get this wrong. It's pretty inexcusable--
being able to correctly tension a chain on a single geared bike seems
to me to be one of the most basic of wrenching skills. /sigh
|
| | |
Date: 09 Jun 2007 20:37:28
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
In article <1181407485.556504.107990@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com >,
landotter <landotter@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jun 8, 12:20 am, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> > We do see a lot of home built fixies with excessively tight chain - and
> > all the concomitant expenses. But I assume actual track bikes would get
> > reasonable setup.
>
> When I picked up my specially ordered fixed gear at one shop, and when
> I had my lock ring tightened at their sister store--both times, the
> chain was under serious tension, and both times the shop employees
> insisted that this was absolutely correct. It's not just the poseurs
> in their ringer tees that get this wrong. It's pretty inexcusable--
> being able to correctly tension a chain on a single geared bike seems
> to me to be one of the most basic of wrenching skills. /sigh
There have been precious few tests of the effects of chain tension on
drivetrain efficiency, but here's one that says that the higher the
chain tension, the more efficient the drivetrain:
http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/news/home99/aug99/bike.html
What I don't know is what happens to chain wear in this case, but one
assumes it has to be negatively affected.
Of course, one assumes high chain tension would cause lower efficiency,
but that's not so...
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 09 Jun 2007 16:33:24
From: Carl Sundquist
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
"Ryan Cousineau" <rcousine@sfu.ca > wrote in message
news:rcousine-401D34.13372809062007@news.telus.net...
> There have been precious few tests of the effects of chain tension on
> drivetrain efficiency, but here's one that says that the higher the
> chain tension, the more efficient the drivetrain:
>
> http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/news/home99/aug99/bike.html
>
> What I don't know is what happens to chain wear in this case, but one
> assumes it has to be negatively affected.
>
> Of course, one assumes high chain tension would cause lower efficiency,
> but that's not so...
The picture shows a read derailleur, so the tension isn't nearly what it
could be with a ham fisted mechanic. The pulleys will also compensate for
out of round chainwheels and cogs, something not afforded to fixed and
single speeds.
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Date: 09 Jun 2007 22:32:28
From:
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
Carl Sundquist writes:
>> There have been precious few tests of the effects of chain tension
>> on drivetrain efficiency, but here's one that says that the higher
>> the chain tension, the more efficient the drivetrain:
http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/news/home99/aug99/bike.html
>> What I don't know is what happens to chain wear in this case, but
>> one assumes it has to be negatively affected.
>> Of course, one assumes high chain tension would cause lower
>> efficiency, but that's not so...
> The picture shows a read derailleur, so the tension isn't nearly
> what it could be with a ham fisted mechanic. The pulleys will also
> compensate for out of round chainwheels and cogs, something not
> afforded to fixed and single speeds.
I haven't seen any track bicycles with a skewed chain line, nor wobbly
chainwheel. That sounds like a lot of smoke and mirrors to me.
Jobst Brandt
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Date: 11 Jun 2007 07:00:54
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
<jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org > wrote in message
news:466b2a7c$0$14135$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>
> I haven't seen any track bicycles with a skewed chain line, nor wobbly
> chainwheel. That sounds like a lot of smoke and mirrors to me.
>
> Jobst Brandt
Interesting, I've seen quite a few. Usually they're off-center ever so
slight, and some quite a bit.
http://home.comcast.net/~tomnak/Chainline.jpg
It doesn't take much to throw off that 42.5mm spacing from
centerline on a 120mm hub.
-tom
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Date: 11 Jun 2007 07:07:53
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
"Tom Nakashima" <tom@slac.stanford.edu > wrote in message
news:f4jkin$b0h$1@news.Stanford.EDU...
>
> <jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message
> news:466b2a7c$0$14135$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>>
>> I haven't seen any track bicycles with a skewed chain line, nor wobbly
>> chainwheel. That sounds like a lot of smoke and mirrors to me.
>>
>> Jobst Brandt
>
> Interesting, I've seen quite a few. Usually they're off-center ever so
> slight, and some quite a bit.
> http://home.comcast.net/~tomnak/Chainline.jpg
> It doesn't take much to throw off that 42.5mm spacing from
> centerline on a 120mm hub.
> -tom
Just a tad darker image:
http://home.comcast.net/~tomnak/Chainline2.JPG
-tom
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Date: 09 Jun 2007 21:42:50
From: John Thompson
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
["Followup-To:" header set to rec.bicycles.misc.]
On 2007-06-09, jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org <jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org > wrote:
> Carl Sundquist writes:
>
>> The picture shows a rear derailleur, so the tension isn't nearly
>> what it could be with a ham fisted mechanic. The pulleys will also
>> compensate for out of round chainwheels and cogs, something not
>> afforded to fixed and single speeds.
> I haven't seen any track bicycles with a skewed chain line, nor wobbly
> chainwheel. That sounds like a lot of smoke and mirrors to me.
No, but the vast majority of fixed gear bikes these days are not track
bikes, but converted road bikes using road parts. My own experience
suggests that many road chainrings are not made to the same standards as
real track parts.
--
John (john@os2.dhs.org)
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Date: 07 Jun 2007 23:03:31
From: autopi
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
I agree with Peter--it's juvenile crap like this that give cyclists a
really bad name, and that some drivers take as a reason to either be
pointlessly scared of sharing the road or just angry at cyclists.
Heck, if I had a cyclist cut me off like that--especially as a
pedestrian--I'd be pretty pissed too. I commute by bike regularly, and
I really don't need this stupidity. These guys are negligently
inflicting risk on other people, and they should stop it.
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Date: 07 Jun 2007 22:48:41
From: sergio
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On 8 Giu, 05:07, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> But amplified by the road,
Why not by the wispering gallery effect?
The Greek have not invented theatres for nothing.
Sergio
Pisa
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Date: 07 Jun 2007 13:33:28
From: Sir Ridesalot
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On Jun 5, 11:44 pm, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Summary:
> Keywords:
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3123908086916868348
>
> The best part is that the photographer had to also be on a bicycle and
> keep up with these riders while not losing a frame or picture angle.
>
> Jobst Brandt
Hi there.
Interesting and entertaining. Its title could be "Why I Hate
Bicyclists".
It would be interesting to count how many traffic infractions each of
those bicyclists made in that video. To think that many people wonder
why motorists do not like bicyclists. This video and many others like
it sure do help to explain that why.
Cheers from Peter
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Date: 07 Jun 2007 08:43:44
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On Jun 7, 12:17 am, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 08:55:29 +0200, Kyle Legate <lega...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
>
> >> Canada does not allow such behavior by bicyclists on public roads:
>
> >> "Prohibited conduct on bicycle"
>
> >> "171 (1) The rider of a bicycle shall not allow the same to proceed in
> >> a highway by inertia momentum, with his feet removed from the pedals,
> >> nor shall such rider remove both hands from the handlebars while
> >> riding the bicycle nor practise any trick or fancy riding on a
> >> highway."
>
> >> --Nova Scotia Motor Vehicle Act
>
> >This law should never have to be enforced since bicycles are not allowed
> >on the highway.
>
> Dear Kyle,
>
> Judging by the somewhat archaic language about "trick and fancy
> riding" that provoked the silliness, the law is talking about the dirt
> roads between cities sometimes called the King's highway and worrying
> about frightening the ox-carts.
>
> The early days of bicycling involved enormous legal battles over the
> right of two-wheeled terrors to use public roads frequented by teams
> of horses:
>
> "The Oregon Legislature recently passed a law that tricyclists and
> bicyclists must stop riding whenever they approach within 100 yards of
> a team, and after dismounting remain standing until the team has
> passed. The wheelmen of the Portland Bicycle Club will contest its
> validity."
>
> --Outing magazine, 1886http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_07/outVII06/outVII06...
>
> Jay Beattie is still pursuing the case.
>
> :)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel- Hide quoted text -
Alas, we are still awaiting a decision. The tricyclists have become
particularly anxious because the Budweiser Clydesdales are coming to
town for the Rose Festival Grand Floral Parade. -- Jay Beattie.
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Date: 07 Jun 2007 06:16:29
From:
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On Jun 6, 7:05 pm, Jay Beattie <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 4:13 pm, Simon Brooke <s...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > in message <f46nr2$1ad...@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>, dvt ('dvt+use...@psu.edu')
> > wrote:
>
> > > dvt wrote:
> > >> The rest of the videos from Lucas Brunelle:
>
> > >> <http://www.digave.com/videos/>
>
> > >> IMO, he has some pretty kewl video.
>
> > > Following up to my own post... I realized that my comment could be
> > > misinterpreted. I was commenting on the video. The behavior of the
> > > riders involved in some of those videos is stupid, IMO.
>
> > It's bloody stupid, but anyone who had ridden a bike in traffic has to
> > admire the skill.
>
> That is fearlessness and not skill. Skill is doing something that is
> technically hard, like the trials riders or the trick riders who
> wheelie-jump over shopping carts. Nothing on that video was
> particularly hard from a skill standpoint. I didn't see any curb
> jumping, backward riding or anything like that. These guys were just
> cutting off cars and running through flocks of pedestrians -- which is
> pretty easy to do if you are willing to do it. The only semi-hard
> thing was the guy putting his feet on the fork crown so his cranks
> could spin.
Have to disagree somewhat Jay. For example, notice the guy on the
dress is on a track bike and keeping up with crazies on freewheel
bikes with brakes. To do that in that traffic environment at those
speeds, he displays impressive skill which is not possessed by your
typical trackbike riding hipster in a dress. The one acute slow-and-
turn around the back of the car to avoid the pedestrian is whole
different ball of wax on a track bike than on a road bike.
Nicely done, guy in dress!
Robert
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Date: 06 Jun 2007 21:28:29
From:
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On Jun 6, 7:05 pm, Jay Beattie <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com > wrote:
[snip]
> I mean there is some skill to the riding on
> that video, but not like those trick riding videos. That stuff is
> unbelievable. -- Jay Beattie
Dear Jay,
Speaking of trick riding . . .
http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?txtkeys1=Marks,+Isabel
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
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Date: 07 Jun 2007 04:35:24
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
In article <1181190509.000646.258820@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com >,
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> On Jun 6, 7:05 pm, Jay Beattie <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > I mean there is some skill to the riding on
> > that video, but not like those trick riding videos. That stuff is
> > unbelievable. -- Jay Beattie
>
> Dear Jay,
>
> Speaking of trick riding . . .
>
> http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?txtkeys1=Marks,+Isabel
That is some fancy cycling, Carl!
I think this one is my favourite:
http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?arrow=1&image=10438459
It deserves a caption contest.
"Yes, I am doing a backward stationary balance on my bicycle. Now get
back to your copybooks or it's the strap for you!"
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 06 Jun 2007 22:56:08
From:
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 04:35:24 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca >
wrote:
>In article <1181190509.000646.258820@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>
>> On Jun 6, 7:05 pm, Jay Beattie <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com> wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> > I mean there is some skill to the riding on
>> > that video, but not like those trick riding videos. That stuff is
>> > unbelievable. -- Jay Beattie
>>
>> Dear Jay,
>>
>> Speaking of trick riding . . .
>>
>> http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?txtkeys1=Marks,+Isabel
>
>
>That is some fancy cycling, Carl!
>
>I think this one is my favourite:
>
>http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?arrow=1&image=10438459
>
>It deserves a caption contest.
>
>"Yes, I am doing a backward stationary balance on my bicycle. Now get
>back to your copybooks or it's the strap for you!"
Dear Ryan,
Canada does not allow such behavior by bicyclists on public roads:
"Prohibited conduct on bicycle"
"171 (1) The rider of a bicycle shall not allow the same to proceed in
a highway by inertia momentum, with his feet removed from the pedals,
nor shall such rider remove both hands from the handlebars while
riding the bicycle nor practise any trick or fancy riding on a
highway."
--Nova Scotia Motor Vehicle Act
http://www.massbike.org/bikelaw/nslaw.htm
In other words, keep your webbed feet on the pedals and handle-bars at
all times, beaver-boy! No trick or fancy riding, or the Mounties will
get their man, even if he flees to Vancouver!
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
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| | | | |
Date: 07 Jun 2007 19:38:06
From: Dennis Ferguson
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On 2007-06-07, carlfogel@comcast.net <carlfogel@comcast.net > wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 04:35:24 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
> wrote:
>>That is some fancy cycling, Carl!
>>
>>I think this one is my favourite:
>>
>>http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?arrow=1&image=10438459
>>
>>It deserves a caption contest.
>>
>>"Yes, I am doing a backward stationary balance on my bicycle. Now get
>>back to your copybooks or it's the strap for you!"
>
> Dear Ryan,
>
> Canada does not allow such behavior by bicyclists on public roads:
>
> "Prohibited conduct on bicycle"
>
> "171 (1) The rider of a bicycle shall not allow the same to proceed in
> a highway by inertia momentum, with his feet removed from the pedals,
> nor shall such rider remove both hands from the handlebars while
> riding the bicycle nor practise any trick or fancy riding on a
> highway."
>
> --Nova Scotia Motor Vehicle Act
>
> http://www.massbike.org/bikelaw/nslaw.htm
>
> In other words, keep your webbed feet on the pedals and handle-bars at
> all times, beaver-boy! No trick or fancy riding, or the Mounties will
> get their man, even if he flees to Vancouver!
Seems like you aren't any better off in the United States:
"39:4-12 Feet and Hands on Pedals and Handlebars; Carrying Another Person."
"Bicyclists should not drive the bicycle with feet removed from the pedals,
or with both hands removed from the handlebars, nor practice any trick
or fancy driving in a street. Limit passengers to only the number the
bicycle is designed and equipped to carry (the number of seats it has)."
-- New Jersey Motor Vehicles and Traffic Regulation laws
http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/commuter/bike/regulations.shtm
Of course you might be correct to protest that that's New Jersey, and
where you live in the United States you have a god-given right to practice
any trick or fancy driving that you want. I'm wondering, though, is
Vancouver really in Nova Scotia?
What I'm more interested in knowning, though, is which of these laws is
closer to the common source from which they were obviously cribbed? Was it
the New Jersey lawyers who translated it into something more closely
approximating modern English for their legislation, or was it the Nova
Scotia lawyers who turned it into something that might sound more at
home a couple of centuries back? I'd like to think the former is the
case, but my own experience with what lawyers do to text I've offered
for other types of legal documents (in particular, patents) leads me
to believe that the latter possibility can't be discounted.
Dennis Ferguson
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Date: 07 Jun 2007 14:18:25
From:
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 19:38:06 GMT, Dennis Ferguson
<dcferguson@pacbell.net > wrote:
>On 2007-06-07, carlfogel@comcast.net <carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 04:35:24 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
>> wrote:
>>>That is some fancy cycling, Carl!
>>>
>>>I think this one is my favourite:
>>>
>>>http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?arrow=1&image=10438459
>>>
>>>It deserves a caption contest.
>>>
>>>"Yes, I am doing a backward stationary balance on my bicycle. Now get
>>>back to your copybooks or it's the strap for you!"
>>
>> Dear Ryan,
>>
>> Canada does not allow such behavior by bicyclists on public roads:
>>
>> "Prohibited conduct on bicycle"
>>
>> "171 (1) The rider of a bicycle shall not allow the same to proceed in
>> a highway by inertia momentum, with his feet removed from the pedals,
>> nor shall such rider remove both hands from the handlebars while
>> riding the bicycle nor practise any trick or fancy riding on a
>> highway."
>>
>> --Nova Scotia Motor Vehicle Act
>>
>> http://www.massbike.org/bikelaw/nslaw.htm
>>
>> In other words, keep your webbed feet on the pedals and handle-bars at
>> all times, beaver-boy! No trick or fancy riding, or the Mounties will
>> get their man, even if he flees to Vancouver!
>
>Seems like you aren't any better off in the United States:
>
>"39:4-12 Feet and Hands on Pedals and Handlebars; Carrying Another Person."
>
>"Bicyclists should not drive the bicycle with feet removed from the pedals,
>or with both hands removed from the handlebars, nor practice any trick
>or fancy driving in a street. Limit passengers to only the number the
>bicycle is designed and equipped to carry (the number of seats it has)."
>
>-- New Jersey Motor Vehicles and Traffic Regulation laws
>
>http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/commuter/bike/regulations.shtm
>
>Of course you might be correct to protest that that's New Jersey, and
>where you live in the United States you have a god-given right to practice
>any trick or fancy driving that you want. I'm wondering, though, is
>Vancouver really in Nova Scotia?
>
>What I'm more interested in knowning, though, is which of these laws is
>closer to the common source from which they were obviously cribbed? Was it
>the New Jersey lawyers who translated it into something more closely
>approximating modern English for their legislation, or was it the Nova
>Scotia lawyers who turned it into something that might sound more at
>home a couple of centuries back? I'd like to think the former is the
>case, but my own experience with what lawyers do to text I've offered
>for other types of legal documents (in particular, patents) leads me
>to believe that the latter possibility can't be discounted.
>
>Dennis Ferguson
Dear Dennis,
To be serious, the tell-tale "trick or fancy" riding marks them both
as a circa 1900 laws.
No one except history-obsessed RBT posters even uses the phrase now,
but it was current back in the heyday of bicycling in the U.S., just
before cars killed off the bike boom.
The legislators who wrote the laws back then were familiar with the
menace of hordes of "trick and fancy" riders scaring the horses.
Just how completely that era has vanished can be seen by trying to
find a copy of Isabel Marks' book "Trick and Fancy Riding." Go to
www.bookfinder.com, search for it, and decide how badly you want a
copy.
$622.87! Yikes! I'm settling for the online pictures:
http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?txtkeys1=Isabel+Marks
Back in 1901, it was just a nice coffee-table book, put together with
some handy riders (lots of people knew how to do those amazing stunts
back then), very roughly the equvialent of the YouTube videos of BMX
riders proving that their mothers were unfaithful with kangaroos.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
|
| | | | |
Date: 07 Jun 2007 08:55:29
From: Kyle Legate
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>
> Canada does not allow such behavior by bicyclists on public roads:
>
> "Prohibited conduct on bicycle"
>
> "171 (1) The rider of a bicycle shall not allow the same to proceed in
> a highway by inertia momentum, with his feet removed from the pedals,
> nor shall such rider remove both hands from the handlebars while
> riding the bicycle nor practise any trick or fancy riding on a
> highway."
>
> --Nova Scotia Motor Vehicle Act
>
This law should never have to be enforced since bicycles are not allowed
on the highway.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 07 Jun 2007 01:17:01
From:
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 08:55:29 +0200, Kyle Legate <legatek@hotmail.com >
wrote:
>carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>
>> Canada does not allow such behavior by bicyclists on public roads:
>>
>> "Prohibited conduct on bicycle"
>>
>> "171 (1) The rider of a bicycle shall not allow the same to proceed in
>> a highway by inertia momentum, with his feet removed from the pedals,
>> nor shall such rider remove both hands from the handlebars while
>> riding the bicycle nor practise any trick or fancy riding on a
>> highway."
>>
>> --Nova Scotia Motor Vehicle Act
>>
>This law should never have to be enforced since bicycles are not allowed
>on the highway.
Dear Kyle,
Judging by the somewhat archaic language about "trick and fancy
riding" that provoked the silliness, the law is talking about the dirt
roads between cities sometimes called the King's highway and worrying
about frightening the ox-carts.
The early days of bicycling involved enormous legal battles over the
right of two-wheeled terrors to use public roads frequented by teams
of horses:
"The Oregon Legislature recently passed a law that tricyclists and
bicyclists must stop riding whenever they approach within 100 yards of
a team, and after dismounting remain standing until the team has
passed. The wheelmen of the Portland Bicycle Club will contest its
validity."
--Outing magazine, 1886
http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_07/outVII06/outVII06u.pdf
Jay Beattie is still pursuing the case.
:)
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 07 Jun 2007 07:24:15
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
In article <bobf6315c027dvpuabrspodjt82koga3rp@4ax.com >,
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 08:55:29 +0200, Kyle Legate <legatek@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> >>
> >> Canada does not allow such behavior by bicyclists on public roads:
> >>
> >> "Prohibited conduct on bicycle"
> >>
> >> "171 (1) The rider of a bicycle shall not allow the same to proceed in
> >> a highway by inertia momentum, with his feet removed from the pedals,
> >> nor shall such rider remove both hands from the handlebars while
> >> riding the bicycle nor practise any trick or fancy riding on a
> >> highway."
> >>
> >> --Nova Scotia Motor Vehicle Act
> >>
> >This law should never have to be enforced since bicycles are not allowed
> >on the highway.
>
> Dear Kyle,
>
> Judging by the somewhat archaic language about "trick and fancy
> riding" that provoked the silliness, the law is talking about the dirt
> roads between cities sometimes called the King's highway and worrying
> about frightening the ox-carts.
>
> The early days of bicycling involved enormous legal battles over the
> right of two-wheeled terrors to use public roads frequented by teams
> of horses:
>
> "The Oregon Legislature recently passed a law that tricyclists and
> bicyclists must stop riding whenever they approach within 100 yards of
> a team, and after dismounting remain standing until the team has
> passed. The wheelmen of the Portland Bicycle Club will contest its
> validity."
>
> --Outing magazine, 1886
> http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_07/outVII06/outVII06u.pdf
>
> Jay Beattie is still pursuing the case.
>
> :)
Okay, you've had your laugh. In Canadian law, this use of "highway," as
Carl suggests, means virtually any normal road, and not just what we
might think of as highways or freeways.
But as far as I can see makes no difference, since our photographed
rider was clearly indoors, and only likely to be subject to such parts
of the Motor Vehicle Act as pertain to the activities of persons inside
of buildings, which is, to wit, none.
Unless of course, that fancy cycling studio happened to be a public
roadway. Which I doubt.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| |
Date: 07 Jun 2007 03:02:22
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
yo dude baby! sheeeet do that ina 401 buick.
|
| |
Date: 06 Jun 2007 18:05:53
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On Jun 6, 4:13 pm, Simon Brooke <s...@jasmine.org.uk > wrote:
> in message <f46nr2$1ad...@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>, dvt ('dvt+use...@psu.edu')
> wrote:
>
> > dvt wrote:
> >> The rest of the videos from Lucas Brunelle:
>
> >> <http://www.digave.com/videos/>
>
> >> IMO, he has some pretty kewl video.
>
> > Following up to my own post... I realized that my comment could be
> > misinterpreted. I was commenting on the video. The behavior of the
> > riders involved in some of those videos is stupid, IMO.
>
> It's bloody stupid, but anyone who had ridden a bike in traffic has to
> admire the skill.
That is fearlessness and not skill. Skill is doing something that is
technically hard, like the trials riders or the trick riders who
wheelie-jump over shopping carts. Nothing on that video was
particularly hard from a skill standpoint. I didn't see any curb
jumping, backward riding or anything like that. These guys were just
cutting off cars and running through flocks of pedestrians -- which is
pretty easy to do if you are willing to do it. The only semi-hard
thing was the guy putting his feet on the fork crown so his cranks
could spin. That is not hard, but it is hard reengaging the pedals
for a panic stop. That will throw you off the bike if you do it wrong
or have too big a gear. I mean there is some skill to the riding on
that video, but not like those trick riding videos. That stuff is
unbelievable. -- Jay Beattie.
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| | |
Date: 06 Jun 2007 22:39:19
From: jean-yves herve
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
In article <1181178353.722204.213030@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com >,
Jay Beattie <jbeattie@lindsayhart.com > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 4:13 pm, Simon Brooke <s...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
> > in message <f46nr2$1ad...@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>, dvt ('dvt+use...@psu.edu')
> > wrote:
> >
> > > dvt wrote:
> > >> The rest of the videos from Lucas Brunelle:
> >
> > >> <http://www.digave.com/videos/>
> >
> > >> IMO, he has some pretty kewl video.
> >
> > > Following up to my own post... I realized that my comment could be
> > > misinterpreted. I was commenting on the video. The behavior of the
> > > riders involved in some of those videos is stupid, IMO.
> >
> > It's bloody stupid, but anyone who had ridden a bike in traffic has to
> > admire the skill.
>
> That is fearlessness and not skill. Skill is doing something that is
> technically hard, like the trials riders or the trick riders who
> wheelie-jump over shopping carts. Nothing on that video was
> particularly hard from a skill standpoint. I didn't see any curb
> jumping, backward riding or anything like that.
If you check some of the other Lucas Brunelle videos, I think that "The
Edge" is one that certainly showcases skill. I had not checked that web
site in a while and I am glad that he posted better, longer versions of
these videos. Some are pretty cool.
jyh.
|
| |
Date: 06 Jun 2007 19:43:30
From: limeylew@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On Jun 5, 10:44 pm, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Summary:
> Keywords:
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3123908086916868348
>
> The best part is that the photographer had to also be on a bicycle and
> keep up with these riders while not losing a frame or picture angle.
>
> Jobst Brandt
Wow!!
I thought all the idiots were in Texas. :-)
Lewis.
*****
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Date: 06 Jun 2007 19:41:04
From: limeylew@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On Jun 5, 10:44 pm, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Summary:
> Keywords:
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3123908086916868348
>
> The best part is that the photographer had to also be on a bicycle and
> keep up with these riders while not losing a frame or picture angle.
>
> Jobst Brandt
Wow!!
I thought all the idiots were in Texas. :-)
Lewis.
*****
|
| |
Date: 06 Jun 2007 11:25:01
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On Jun 6, 1:12 pm, Matt O'Toole <mattoto...@letterboxes.org > wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 03:44:46 +0000, jobst.brandt wrote:
> > Summary:
> > Keywords:
>
> >http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3123908086916868348
>
> > The best part is that the photographer had to also be on a bicycle and
> > keep up with these riders while not losing a frame or picture angle.
>
> But they're not wearing helmets!
I think I saw some prayer flags on a guys rear spokes, don't worry.
|
| |
Date: 06 Jun 2007 14:12:15
From: Matt O'Toole
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 03:44:46 +0000, jobst.brandt wrote:
> Summary:
> Keywords:
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3123908086916868348
>
> The best part is that the photographer had to also be on a bicycle and
> keep up with these riders while not losing a frame or picture angle.
But they're not wearing helmets!
Matt O.
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| |
Date: 06 Jun 2007 09:17:38
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On Jun 5, 10:44 pm, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Summary:
> Keywords:
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3123908086916868348
>
> The best part is that the photographer had to also be on a bicycle and
> keep up with these riders while not losing a frame or picture angle.
That video as an example of bicycling is like the following video as
an example of a bank heist:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=JyQO6Q5hmsE
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| |
Date: 06 Jun 2007 12:15:11
From: dvt
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Summary:
> Keywords:
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3123908086916868348
>
> The best part is that the photographer had to also be on a bicycle and
> keep up with these riders while not losing a frame or picture angle.
Ted Bennett posted a link to that video in December 2005:
<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/ecf7c9738a5e73a9 >
The rest of the videos from Lucas Brunelle:
<http://www.digave.com/videos/ >
IMO, he has some pretty kewl video.
--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu
Everyone confesses that exertion which brings out all the powers of body
and mind is the best thing for us; but most people do all they can to
get rid of it, and as a general rule nobody does much more than
circumstances drive them to do. -Harriet Beecher Stowe, abolitionist and
novelist (1811-1896)
|
| | |
Date: 06 Jun 2007 12:36:50
From: dvt
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
dvt wrote:
> The rest of the videos from Lucas Brunelle:
>
> <http://www.digave.com/videos/>
>
> IMO, he has some pretty kewl video.
Following up to my own post... I realized that my comment could be
misinterpreted. I was commenting on the video. The behavior of the
riders involved in some of those videos is stupid, IMO.
--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu
Everyone confesses that exertion which brings out all the powers of body
and mind is the best thing for us; but most people do all they can to
get rid of it, and as a general rule nobody does much more than
circumstances drive them to do. -Harriet Beecher Stowe, abolitionist and
novelist (1811-1896)
|
| | | |
Date: 07 Jun 2007 00:13:26
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
in message <f46nr2$1ads$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu >, dvt ('dvt+usenet@psu.edu')
wrote:
> dvt wrote:
>> The rest of the videos from Lucas Brunelle:
>>
>> <http://www.digave.com/videos/>
>>
>> IMO, he has some pretty kewl video.
>
> Following up to my own post... I realized that my comment could be
> misinterpreted. I was commenting on the video. The behavior of the
> riders involved in some of those videos is stupid, IMO.
It's bloody stupid, but anyone who had ridden a bike in traffic has to
admire the skill.
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
:: Wisdom is better than weapons of war ::
:: Ecclesiastes 9:18 ::
|
| | | | |
Date: 07 Jun 2007 15:55:37
From: Doc O'Leary
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
In article <nlrjj4-b7k.ln1@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk >,
Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk > wrote:
> in message <f46nr2$1ads$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>, dvt ('dvt+usenet@psu.edu')
> wrote:
>
> > dvt wrote:
> >> The rest of the videos from Lucas Brunelle:
> >>
> >> <http://www.digave.com/videos/>
> >>
> >> IMO, he has some pretty kewl video.
> >
> > Following up to my own post... I realized that my comment could be
> > misinterpreted. I was commenting on the video. The behavior of the
> > riders involved in some of those videos is stupid, IMO.
>
> It's bloody stupid, but anyone who had ridden a bike in traffic has to
> admire the skill.
What skill? Skill would have been flocking behavior at intersections
that allowed them to slip through traffic without interrupting the flow.
All I saw were a bunch of dicks who thought nothing of cutting off cars
and pedestrians.
--
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, 4ax.com, buzzardnews.com, googlegroups.com,
heapnode.com, localhost, x-privat.org
|
| | | | | |
Date: 08 Jun 2007 19:16:14
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
"Doc O'Leary" <droleary.usenet@2q2007.subsume.com > wrote in message
news:droleary.usenet-74B458.15553707062007@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
> In article <nlrjj4-b7k.ln1@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk>,
> Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> in message <f46nr2$1ads$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>, dvt ('dvt+usenet@psu.edu')
>> wrote:
>>
>> > dvt wrote:
>> >> The rest of the videos from Lucas Brunelle:
>> >>
>> >> <http://www.digave.com/videos/>
>> >>
>> >> IMO, he has some pretty kewl video.
>> >
>> > Following up to my own post... I realized that my comment could be
>> > misinterpreted. I was commenting on the video. The behavior of the
>> > riders involved in some of those videos is stupid, IMO.
>>
>> It's bloody stupid, but anyone who had ridden a bike in traffic has to
>> admire the skill.
>
> What skill? Skill would have been flocking behavior at intersections
> that allowed them to slip through traffic without interrupting the flow.
> All I saw were a bunch of dicks who thought nothing of cutting off cars
> and pedestrians.
How many cars and pedestrians were cut-off? I suggest that you couldn't tell
what was going on by that film.
|
| | | | |
Date: 07 Jun 2007 02:48:26
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
"Simon Brooke" <simon@jasmine.org.uk > wrote in message
news:nlrjj4-b7k.ln1@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk...
> in message <f46nr2$1ads$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>, dvt ('dvt+usenet@psu.edu')
> wrote:
>
>> dvt wrote:
>>> The rest of the videos from Lucas Brunelle:
>>>
>>> <http://www.digave.com/videos/>
>>>
>>> IMO, he has some pretty kewl video.
>>
>> Following up to my own post... I realized that my comment could be
>> misinterpreted. I was commenting on the video. The behavior of the
>> riders involved in some of those videos is stupid, IMO.
>
> It's bloody stupid, but anyone who had ridden a bike in traffic has to
> admire the skill.
When I'm riding in San Francisco I often revert to riding quite like
messengers though I make a point of NEVER taking right of way that isn't
legally mine.
|
| |
Date: 06 Jun 2007 09:02:05
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On Jun 6, 10:53 am, cyclin...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jun 6, 7:18 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> > <jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message
>
> >news:46662dae$0$14100$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>
> > > Summary:
> > > Keywords:
>
> > >http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3123908086916868348
>
> > > The best part is that the photographer had to also be on a bicycle and
> > > keep up with these riders while not losing a frame or picture angle.
>
> > > Jobst Brandt
>
> > Pretty amazing to watch those pedals rotate when the B-messenger
> > had his legs up on the handlebars of the descent.on the bridge.
>
> > There was a movie in 1986 called Quicksilver starring Kevin Bacon
> > who quit his job as a stock market whiz to be a bike messenger in
> > San Francisco. There is one scene of a bike race between Bacon
> > and Voodoo (Laurence Fishburne) down the hills of SF on fixed
> > geared bikes. Pretty entertaining.
>
> Tom - if I remember correctly Kevin was riding a one speed not a
> fixty.
He rides several different bikes. On the DVD cover, he's on a fixed
gear. Remember the riding backwards scene in that huge loft that all
underdog heroes can somehow afford? I'm pretty sure they slapped a
freewheel and brakes on for some scenes.
|
| |
Date: 06 Jun 2007 08:53:49
From:
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On Jun 6, 7:18 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu > wrote:
> <jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message
>
> news:46662dae$0$14100$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>
> > Summary:
> > Keywords:
>
> >http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3123908086916868348
>
> > The best part is that the photographer had to also be on a bicycle and
> > keep up with these riders while not losing a frame or picture angle.
>
> > Jobst Brandt
>
> Pretty amazing to watch those pedals rotate when the B-messenger
> had his legs up on the handlebars of the descent.on the bridge.
>
> There was a movie in 1986 called Quicksilver starring Kevin Bacon
> who quit his job as a stock market whiz to be a bike messenger in
> San Francisco. There is one scene of a bike race between Bacon
> and Voodoo (Laurence Fishburne) down the hills of SF on fixed
> geared bikes. Pretty entertaining.
Tom - if I remember correctly Kevin was riding a one speed not a
fixty.
|
| | |
Date: 06 Jun 2007 08:59:10
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
<cyclintom@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1181145229.228100.159360@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 6, 7:18 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>
>> There was a movie in 1986 called Quicksilver starring Kevin Bacon
>> who quit his job as a stock market whiz to be a bike messenger in
>> San Francisco. There is one scene of a bike race between Bacon
>> and Voodoo (Laurence Fishburne) down the hills of SF on fixed
>> geared bikes. Pretty entertaining.
>
> Tom - if I remember correctly Kevin was riding a one speed not a
> fixty.
>
Actually I read the highlights of the movie of how the movie was made.
They tried to portray Bacon on a fixie, but the races and stunts couldn't
be done on a fixed gear bike, so they used a freewheel single.
If you watch the movie closely, you see in some scenes the pedals
rotate, and in other scenes the pedals don't. The same with Fishburne's
bikes.
-tom
|
| | | |
Date: 07 Jun 2007 02:46:47
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
"Tom Nakashima" <tom@slac.stanford.edu > wrote in message
news:f46lkd$rsg$1@news.Stanford.EDU...
>
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1181145229.228100.159360@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jun 6, 7:18 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> There was a movie in 1986 called Quicksilver starring Kevin Bacon
>>> who quit his job as a stock market whiz to be a bike messenger in
>>> San Francisco. There is one scene of a bike race between Bacon
>>> and Voodoo (Laurence Fishburne) down the hills of SF on fixed
>>> geared bikes. Pretty entertaining.
>>
>> Tom - if I remember correctly Kevin was riding a one speed not a
>> fixty.
>>
>
> Actually I read the highlights of the movie of how the movie was made.
> They tried to portray Bacon on a fixie, but the races and stunts couldn't
> be done on a fixed gear bike, so they used a freewheel single.
>
> If you watch the movie closely, you see in some scenes the pedals
> rotate, and in other scenes the pedals don't. The same with Fishburne's
> bikes.
It was a pretty entertaining film though I do wish that they would do a nice
"cross the USA by bicycle" film that wasn't "Along Came Bronson" or
something equally stupid.
|
| |
Date: 06 Jun 2007 07:18:18
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
<jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org > wrote in message
news:46662dae$0$14100$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Summary:
> Keywords:
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3123908086916868348
>
> The best part is that the photographer had to also be on a bicycle and
> keep up with these riders while not losing a frame or picture angle.
>
> Jobst Brandt
Pretty amazing to watch those pedals rotate when the B-messenger
had his legs up on the handlebars of the descent.on the bridge.
There was a movie in 1986 called Quicksilver starring Kevin Bacon
who quit his job as a stock market whiz to be a bike messenger in
San Francisco. There is one scene of a bike race between Bacon
and Voodoo (Laurence Fishburne) down the hills of SF on fixed
geared bikes. Pretty entertaining.
-tom
|
| | |
Date: 07 Jun 2007 11:03:33
From: Steven L. Sheffield
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On 6/6/07 8:18 AM, in article f46fna$ne2$1@news.Stanford.EDU, "Tom
Nakashima" <tom@slac.stanford.edu > wrote:
>
> <jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message
> news:46662dae$0$14100$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>> Summary:
>> Keywords:
>>
>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3123908086916868348
>>
>> The best part is that the photographer had to also be on a bicycle and
>> keep up with these riders while not losing a frame or picture angle.
>>
>> Jobst Brandt
>
> Pretty amazing to watch those pedals rotate when the B-messenger
> had his legs up on the handlebars of the descent.on the bridge.
>
> There was a movie in 1986 called Quicksilver starring Kevin Bacon
> who quit his job as a stock market whiz to be a bike messenger in
> San Francisco. There is one scene of a bike race between Bacon
> and Voodoo (Laurence Fishburne) down the hills of SF on fixed
> geared bikes. Pretty entertaining.
Fishburne was riding a geared bike throughout the movie before his character
was killed ... And I loved watching the Bacon character COAST down the hills
on his "fixed" gear.
I also loved the freewheel noise when they were pedalling.
--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot flahute dot com [foreword] slash
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| | | |
Date: 07 Jun 2007 10:24:45
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
"Steven L. Sheffield" <stevens@veloworks.com > wrote in message
news:C28D9685.5B187%stevens@veloworks.com...
> On 6/6/07 8:18 AM, in article f46fna$ne2$1@news.Stanford.EDU, "Tom
> Nakashima" <tom@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
>>
>> <jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message
>> news:46662dae$0$14100$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>>> Summary:
>>> Keywords:
>>>
>>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3123908086916868348
>>>
>>> The best part is that the photographer had to also be on a bicycle and
>>> keep up with these riders while not losing a frame or picture angle.
>>>
>>> Jobst Brandt
>>
>> Pretty amazing to watch those pedals rotate when the B-messenger
>> had his legs up on the handlebars of the descent.on the bridge.
>>
>> There was a movie in 1986 called Quicksilver starring Kevin Bacon
>> who quit his job as a stock market whiz to be a bike messenger in
>> San Francisco. There is one scene of a bike race between Bacon
>> and Voodoo (Laurence Fishburne) down the hills of SF on fixed
>> geared bikes. Pretty entertaining.
>
>
>
> Fishburne was riding a geared bike throughout the movie before his
> character
> was killed ... And I loved watching the Bacon character COAST down the
> hills
> on his "fixed" gear.
>
> I also loved the freewheel noise when they were pedalling.
>
Actually how I heard it, the sound of Bacon and Fishburne cycling
was taken from a fixedgear bike put on a bike stand with the mic close by,
and someone rotating it by hand at a high rpm with a makeshift handle as the
pedal...Movie sound effects.
I used to go down to watch the night races on the Hellyer Park Velodrome
banked track in San Jose, CA The fixed gear is quite noisy, and when you
get a swarm of 30 track riders all bunched together, it's a
pretty eerie sound.
-tom
|
| | | | |
Date: 07 Jun 2007 18:45:53
From:
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
Tom Nakashima writes:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3123908086916868348
>>>> The best part is that the photographer had to also be on a
>>>> bicycle and keep up with these riders while not losing a frame or
>>>> picture angle.
>>> Pretty amazing to watch those pedals rotate when the B-messenger
>>> had his legs up on the handlebars of the descent on the bridge.
>>> There was a movie in 1986 called Quicksilver starring Kevin Bacon
>>> who quit his job as a stock market whiz to be a bike messenger in
>>> San Francisco. There is one scene of a bike race between Bacon
>>> and Voodoo (Laurence Fishburne) down the hills of SF on fixed
>>> geared bikes. Pretty entertaining.
>> Fishburne was riding a geared bike throughout the movie before his
>> character was killed ... And I loved watching the Bacon character
>> COAST down the hills on his "fixed" gear.
>> I also loved the freewheel noise when they were pedalling.
> Actually how I heard it, the sound of Bacon and Fishburne cycling
> was taken from a fixedgear bike put on a bike stand with the mic
> close by, and someone rotating it by hand at a high rpm with a
> makeshift handle as the pedal...Movie sound effects.
> I used to go down to watch the night races on the Hellyer Park
> Velodrome banked track in San Jose, CA The fixed gear is quite
> noisy, and when you get a swarm of 30 track riders all bunched
> together, it's a pretty eerie sound.
I don't know what you were hearing but even block inch pitch chain
made no audible noise if the sprockets were not hoooked from running a
badly elongated chain. What do you believe makes sound on a fixed
gear bicycle that is different from a road bicycle whose chain is
inaudible when riding?
There seems to be something fishy in Denmark!
Jobst Brandt
|
| | | | | |
Date: 11 Jun 2007 13:27:09
From: G.T.
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
<jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org > wrote in message
news:46685261$0$14063$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> >
> I don't know what you were hearing but even block inch pitch chain
> made no audible noise if the sprockets were not hoooked from running a
> badly elongated chain. What do you believe makes sound on a fixed
> gear bicycle that is different from a road bicycle whose chain is
> inaudible when riding?
Are you saying that the drivetrain on a road bicycle is completely
inaudible? If so, you need to get your ears checked. Hell, even the
well-lubricated
Greg
--
Ticketbastard tax tracker:
http://ticketmastersucks.org/tracker.html
"Run over your friends in stolen Volkswagens
And tell them I sent you and tell them I sent you" - Mclusky
|
| | | | | |
Date: 08 Jun 2007 19:07:50
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
<jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org > wrote in message
news:46685261$0$14063$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Tom Nakashima writes:
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3123908086916868348
>
>>>>> The best part is that the photographer had to also be on a
>>>>> bicycle and keep up with these riders while not losing a frame or
>>>>> picture angle.
>
>>>> Pretty amazing to watch those pedals rotate when the B-messenger
>>>> had his legs up on the handlebars of the descent on the bridge.
>
>>>> There was a movie in 1986 called Quicksilver starring Kevin Bacon
>>>> who quit his job as a stock market whiz to be a bike messenger in
>>>> San Francisco. There is one scene of a bike race between Bacon
>>>> and Voodoo (Laurence Fishburne) down the hills of SF on fixed
>>>> geared bikes. Pretty entertaining.
>
>>> Fishburne was riding a geared bike throughout the movie before his
>>> character was killed ... And I loved watching the Bacon character
>>> COAST down the hills on his "fixed" gear.
>
>>> I also loved the freewheel noise when they were pedalling.
>
>> Actually how I heard it, the sound of Bacon and Fishburne cycling
>> was taken from a fixedgear bike put on a bike stand with the mic
>> close by, and someone rotating it by hand at a high rpm with a
>> makeshift handle as the pedal...Movie sound effects.
>
>> I used to go down to watch the night races on the Hellyer Park
>> Velodrome banked track in San Jose, CA The fixed gear is quite
>> noisy, and when you get a swarm of 30 track riders all bunched
>> together, it's a pretty eerie sound.
>
> I don't know what you were hearing but even block inch pitch chain
> made no audible noise if the sprockets were not hoooked from running a
> badly elongated chain. What do you believe makes sound on a fixed
> gear bicycle that is different from a road bicycle whose chain is
> inaudible when riding?
>
> There seems to be something fishy in Denmark!
I wondered about that as well though since my hearing is so bad I suppose
that there could be a lot of sound and I still wouldn't hear it.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 08 Jun 2007 03:07:18
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
In article <46685261$0$14063$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >,
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Tom Nakashima writes:
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3123908086916868348
>
> >>>> The best part is that the photographer had to also be on a
> >>>> bicycle and keep up with these riders while not losing a frame or
> >>>> picture angle.
>
> >>> Pretty amazing to watch those pedals rotate when the B-messenger
> >>> had his legs up on the handlebars of the descent on the bridge.
>
> >>> There was a movie in 1986 called Quicksilver starring Kevin Bacon
> >>> who quit his job as a stock market whiz to be a bike messenger in
> >>> San Francisco. There is one scene of a bike race between Bacon
> >>> and Voodoo (Laurence Fishburne) down the hills of SF on fixed
> >>> geared bikes. Pretty entertaining.
>
> >> Fishburne was riding a geared bike throughout the movie before his
> >> character was killed ... And I loved watching the Bacon character
> >> COAST down the hills on his "fixed" gear.
>
> >> I also loved the freewheel noise when they were pedalling.
>
> > Actually how I heard it, the sound of Bacon and Fishburne cycling
> > was taken from a fixedgear bike put on a bike stand with the mic
> > close by, and someone rotating it by hand at a high rpm with a
> > makeshift handle as the pedal...Movie sound effects.
>
> > I used to go down to watch the night races on the Hellyer Park
> > Velodrome banked track in San Jose, CA The fixed gear is quite
> > noisy, and when you get a swarm of 30 track riders all bunched
> > together, it's a pretty eerie sound.
>
> I don't know what you were hearing but even block inch pitch chain
> made no audible noise if the sprockets were not hoooked from running a
> badly elongated chain. What do you believe makes sound on a fixed
> gear bicycle that is different from a road bicycle whose chain is
> inaudible when riding?
>
> There seems to be something fishy in Denmark!
Don't make me go record some video. I suspect part of it is that a
typical wooden track makes an excellent resonating device for the noise
of a bicycle. I wouldn't guess whether the noise comes mainly from the
drivetrain, the tires, or the impact of the tires on the boards, but
noisy they are.
It's not just wind noise, either: it's distinctly mechanical. Okay, I'll
guess: the drivetrain.
But amplified by the road,
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 09 Jun 2007 13:22:01
From:
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 03:07:18 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca >
wrote:
>In article <46685261$0$14063$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
> jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>
>> Tom Nakashima writes:
>>
>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3123908086916868348
>>
>> >>>> The best part is that the photographer had to also be on a
>> >>>> bicycle and keep up with these riders while not losing a frame or
>> >>>> picture angle.
>>
>> >>> Pretty amazing to watch those pedals rotate when the B-messenger
>> >>> had his legs up on the handlebars of the descent on the bridge.
>>
>> >>> There was a movie in 1986 called Quicksilver starring Kevin Bacon
>> >>> who quit his job as a stock market whiz to be a bike messenger in
>> >>> San Francisco. There is one scene of a bike race between Bacon
>> >>> and Voodoo (Laurence Fishburne) down the hills of SF on fixed
>> >>> geared bikes. Pretty entertaining.
>>
>> >> Fishburne was riding a geared bike throughout the movie before his
>> >> character was killed ... And I loved watching the Bacon character
>> >> COAST down the hills on his "fixed" gear.
>>
>> >> I also loved the freewheel noise when they were pedalling.
>>
>> > Actually how I heard it, the sound of Bacon and Fishburne cycling
>> > was taken from a fixedgear bike put on a bike stand with the mic
>> > close by, and someone rotating it by hand at a high rpm with a
>> > makeshift handle as the pedal...Movie sound effects.
>>
>> > I used to go down to watch the night races on the Hellyer Park
>> > Velodrome banked track in San Jose, CA The fixed gear is quite
>> > noisy, and when you get a swarm of 30 track riders all bunched
>> > together, it's a pretty eerie sound.
>>
>> I don't know what you were hearing but even block inch pitch chain
>> made no audible noise if the sprockets were not hoooked from running a
>> badly elongated chain. What do you believe makes sound on a fixed
>> gear bicycle that is different from a road bicycle whose chain is
>> inaudible when riding?
>>
>> There seems to be something fishy in Denmark!
>
>Don't make me go record some video. I suspect part of it is that a
>typical wooden track makes an excellent resonating device for the noise
>of a bicycle. I wouldn't guess whether the noise comes mainly from the
>drivetrain, the tires, or the impact of the tires on the boards, but
>noisy they are.
>
>It's not just wind noise, either: it's distinctly mechanical. Okay, I'll
>guess: the drivetrain.
>
>But amplified by the road,
I ride fixed and it is virtually noiseless. I keep the chain fairly
clean with occasional mineral spirits baths and frequent lube. Of
course the roar of NYC traffic could be blocking any sound my bike
might be making, but in quieter moments I generally hear no noise
coming from the bike. I'm going out today and will listen more
carefully.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 07 Jun 2007 12:02:31
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
<jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org > wrote in message
news:46685261$0$14063$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Tom Nakashima writes:
>
>
>> I used to go down to watch the night races on the Hellyer Park
>> Velodrome banked track in San Jose, CA The fixed gear is quite
>> noisy, and when you get a swarm of 30 track riders all bunched
>> together, it's a pretty eerie sound.
>
> I don't know what you were hearing but even block inch pitch chain
> made no audible noise if the sprockets were not hoooked from running a
> badly elongated chain. What do you believe makes sound on a fixed
> gear bicycle that is different from a road bicycle whose chain is
> inaudible when riding?
>
> There seems to be something fishy in Denmark!
>
> Jobst Brandt
Sometime put both a track bike then a road bike on a bike stand and rotate
it by hand. Listen carefully to the sound, there is a difference.
-tom
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 07 Jun 2007 20:32:51
From:
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
Tom Nakashima writes:
>>> I used to go down to watch the night races on the Hellyer Park
>>> Velodrome banked track in San Jose, CA The fixed gear is quite
>>> noisy, and when you get a swarm of 30 track riders all bunched
>>> together, it's a pretty eerie sound.
>> I don't know what you were hearing but even block inch pitch chain
>> made no audible noise if the sprockets were not hoooked from
>> running a badly elongated chain. What do you believe makes sound
>> on a fixed gear bicycle that is different from a road bicycle whose
>> chain is inaudible when riding?
>> There seems to be something fishy in Denmark!
> Sometime put both a track bike then a road bike on a bike stand and
> rotate it by hand. Listen carefully to the sound, there is a
> difference.
Back to the question. What is different that you believe makes noise.
As I said, I have observed many bicycles in motion on road and track
and not found what you describe. The most I could hear was track
rumble when the pack came by on an indoor board track.
Jobst Brandt
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 07 Jun 2007 14:07:02
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
<jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org > wrote in message
news:46686b73$0$14150$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Tom Nakashima writes:
>
>>>> I used to go down to watch the night races on the Hellyer Park
>>>> Velodrome banked track in San Jose, CA The fixed gear is quite
>>>> noisy, and when you get a swarm of 30 track riders all bunched
>>>> together, it's a pretty eerie sound.
>
>>> I don't know what you were hearing but even block inch pitch chain
>>> made no audible noise if the sprockets were not hoooked from
>>> running a badly elongated chain. What do you believe makes sound
>>> on a fixed gear bicycle that is different from a road bicycle whose
>>> chain is inaudible when riding?
>
>>> There seems to be something fishy in Denmark!
>
>> Sometime put both a track bike then a road bike on a bike stand and
>> rotate it by hand. Listen carefully to the sound, there is a
>> difference.
>
> Back to the question. What is different that you believe makes noise.
> As I said, I have observed many bicycles in motion on road and track
> and not found what you describe. The most I could hear was track
> rumble when the pack came by on an indoor board track.
>
> Jobst Brandt
We did this over lunch. My friend has a fixed gear that he rides and
I have my road bike. First I raised the rear of the bike and pedaled as he
listened and then we reversed roles. We both agreed the fixed gear is
definitely louder. We both came to the conclusion that the pulley's of the
derailleur must act as a sound dampener. That's the only thing that we
could see different, other than the 1/4' track chain, 3/32" road chain.
My friend also said some track riders opt to purchase a quiet chain...
whatever that is? He said some chains are quieter than others.
-tom
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 08 Jun 2007 00:45:26
From:
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
Tom Nakashima writes:
>>>>> I used to go down to watch the night races on the Hellyer Park
>>>>> Velodrome banked track in San Jose, CA The fixed gear is quite
>>>>> noisy, and when you get a swarm of 30 track riders all bunched
>>>>> together, it's a pretty eerie sound.
>>>> I don't know what you were hearing but even block inch pitch chain
>>>> made no audible noise if the sprockets were not hooked from
>>>> running a badly elongated chain. What do you believe makes sound
>>>> on a fixed gear bicycle that is different from a road bicycle whose
>>>> chain is inaudible when riding?
>>>> There seems to be something fishy in Denmark!
>>> Sometime put both a track bike then a road bike on a bike stand and
>>> rotate it by hand. Listen carefully to the sound, there is a
>>> difference.
>> Back to the question. What is different that you believe makes noise.
>> As I said, I have observed many bicycles in motion on road and track
>> and not found what you describe. The most I could hear was track
>> rumble when the pack came by on an indoor board track.
> We did this over lunch. My friend has a fixed gear that he rides and
> I have my road bike. First I raised the rear of the bike and
> pedaled as he listened and then we reversed roles. We both agreed
> the fixed gear is definitely louder. We both came to the conclusion
> that the pulley's of the derailleur must act as a sound
> dampener. That's the only thing that we could see different, other
> than the 1/4' track chain, 3/32" road chain.
> My friend also said some track riders opt to purchase a quiet chain...
> whatever that is? He said some chains are quieter than others.
I don't have your bicycles here so I'm asking what you believe makes
the noise. The derailleur idlers cannot make the chain run more
smoothly. Does the fixed gear bicycle have a worn sprocket? You might
be hearing chain-suck suppressed by a fixed length chain.
As you may have noticed, a worn sprocket with an in-pitch chain skips
when loaded even though the wear to the sprocket is hard to detect. A
track bicycle doesn't skip, it just makes noise from forced engagement
and more noise under load when it tries hard to skip and can't.
Jobst Brandt
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 08 Jun 2007 06:51:56
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
<jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org > wrote in message
news:4668a6a6$0$14067$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Tom Nakashima writes:
>
>>>>>> I used to go down to watch the night races on the Hellyer Park
>>>>>> Velodrome banked track in San Jose, CA The fixed gear is quite
>>>>>> noisy, and when you get a swarm of 30 track riders all bunched
>>>>>> together, it's a pretty eerie sound.
>
>>>>> I don't know what you were hearing but even block inch pitch chain
>>>>> made no audible noise if the sprockets were not hooked from
>>>>> running a badly elongated chain. What do you believe makes sound
>>>>> on a fixed gear bicycle that is different from a road bicycle whose
>>>>> chain is inaudible when riding?
>
>>>>> There seems to be something fishy in Denmark!
>
>>>> Sometime put both a track bike then a road bike on a bike stand and
>>>> rotate it by hand. Listen carefully to the sound, there is a
>>>> difference.
>
>>> Back to the question. What is different that you believe makes noise.
>>> As I said, I have observed many bicycles in motion on road and track
>>> and not found what you describe. The most I could hear was track
>>> rumble when the pack came by on an indoor board track.
>
>> We did this over lunch. My friend has a fixed gear that he rides and
>> I have my road bike. First I raised the rear of the bike and
>> pedaled as he listened and then we reversed roles. We both agreed
>> the fixed gear is definitely louder. We both came to the conclusion
>> that the pulley's of the derailleur must act as a sound
>> dampener. That's the only thing that we could see different, other
>> than the 1/4' track chain, 3/32" road chain.
>
>> My friend also said some track riders opt to purchase a quiet chain...
>> whatever that is? He said some chains are quieter than others.
>
> I don't have your bicycles here so I'm asking what you believe makes
> the noise. The derailleur idlers cannot make the chain run more
> smoothly.
*I didn't say "more smoothly", I said the derailleurs pulley's (idlers) must
act as a sound dampener.
>Does the fixed gear bicycle have a worn sprocket?
*NO, and the chainline looks good.
>You might be hearing chain-suck suppressed by a fixed length chain.
* What I'm hearing is the meshing sound of the chain on the front
chainring and the a rear cog minus the derailleur pulleys.
>
> As you may have noticed, a worn sprocket with an in-pitch chain skips
> when loaded even though the wear to the sprocket is hard to detect. A
> track bicycle doesn't skip, it just makes noise from forced engagement
> and more noise under load when it tries hard to skip and can't.
>
> Jobst Brandt
*I would think a in-pitch sprocket and chainring would be quieter than
today's standard pitch on a fixedgear bike. Less mechanical contact between
the teeth.
*A possible way to test the pulley noise theory is to get pulley's (idlers)
made out of different material, aluminum, ceramic, plastic. I would believe
the aluminum pulley's make more noise than say plastic ones.
-tom
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 07 Jun 2007 19:24:29
From:
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On 08 Jun 2007 00:45:26 GMT, jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>Tom Nakashima writes:
>
>>>>>> I used to go down to watch the night races on the Hellyer Park
>>>>>> Velodrome banked track in San Jose, CA The fixed gear is quite
>>>>>> noisy, and when you get a swarm of 30 track riders all bunched
>>>>>> together, it's a pretty eerie sound.
>
>>>>> I don't know what you were hearing but even block inch pitch chain
>>>>> made no audible noise if the sprockets were not hooked from
>>>>> running a badly elongated chain. What do you believe makes sound
>>>>> on a fixed gear bicycle that is different from a road bicycle whose
>>>>> chain is inaudible when riding?
>
>>>>> There seems to be something fishy in Denmark!
>
>>>> Sometime put both a track bike then a road bike on a bike stand and
>>>> rotate it by hand. Listen carefully to the sound, there is a
>>>> difference.
>
>>> Back to the question. What is different that you believe makes noise.
>>> As I said, I have observed many bicycles in motion on road and track
>>> and not found what you describe. The most I could hear was track
>>> rumble when the pack came by on an indoor board track.
>
>> We did this over lunch. My friend has a fixed gear that he rides and
>> I have my road bike. First I raised the rear of the bike and
>> pedaled as he listened and then we reversed roles. We both agreed
>> the fixed gear is definitely louder. We both came to the conclusion
>> that the pulley's of the derailleur must act as a sound
>> dampener. That's the only thing that we could see different, other
>> than the 1/4' track chain, 3/32" road chain.
>
>> My friend also said some track riders opt to purchase a quiet chain...
>> whatever that is? He said some chains are quieter than others.
>
>I don't have your bicycles here so I'm asking what you believe makes
>the noise. The derailleur idlers cannot make the chain run more
>smoothly. Does the fixed gear bicycle have a worn sprocket? You might
>be hearing chain-suck suppressed by a fixed length chain.
>
>As you may have noticed, a worn sprocket with an in-pitch chain skips
>when loaded even though the wear to the sprocket is hard to detect. A
>track bicycle doesn't skip, it just makes noise from forced engagement
>and more noise under load when it tries hard to skip and can't.
>
>Jobst Brandt
Dear Jobst,
The gentle spring loading of the derailleur pulleys may produce less
tension on the lower run of the chain--less twang as the chain exits
the front and less twang as it enters the Z-bend at the rear.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 08 Jun 2007 08:07:02
From: dgk
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 19:24:29 -0600, carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>On 08 Jun 2007 00:45:26 GMT, jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>
>>Tom Nakashima writes:
>>
>>>>>>> I used to go down to watch the night races on the Hellyer Park
>>>>>>> Velodrome banked track in San Jose, CA The fixed gear is quite
>>>>>>> noisy, and when you get a swarm of 30 track riders all bunched
>>>>>>> together, it's a pretty eerie sound.
>>
>>>>>> I don't know what you were hearing but even block inch pitch chain
>>>>>> made no audible noise if the sprockets were not hooked from
>>>>>> running a badly elongated chain. What do you believe makes sound
>>>>>> on a fixed gear bicycle that is different from a road bicycle whose
>>>>>> chain is inaudible when riding?
>>
>>>>>> There seems to be something fishy in Denmark!
>>
>>>>> Sometime put both a track bike then a road bike on a bike stand and
>>>>> rotate it by hand. Listen carefully to the sound, there is a
>>>>> difference.
>>
>>>> Back to the question. What is different that you believe makes noise.
>>>> As I said, I have observed many bicycles in motion on road and track
>>>> and not found what you describe. The most I could hear was track
>>>> rumble when the pack came by on an indoor board track.
>>
>>> We did this over lunch. My friend has a fixed gear that he rides and
>>> I have my road bike. First I raised the rear of the bike and
>>> pedaled as he listened and then we reversed roles. We both agreed
>>> the fixed gear is definitely louder. We both came to the conclusion
>>> that the pulley's of the derailleur must act as a sound
>>> dampener. That's the only thing that we could see different, other
>>> than the 1/4' track chain, 3/32" road chain.
>>
>>> My friend also said some track riders opt to purchase a quiet chain...
>>> whatever that is? He said some chains are quieter than others.
>>
>>I don't have your bicycles here so I'm asking what you believe makes
>>the noise. The derailleur idlers cannot make the chain run more
>>smoothly. Does the fixed gear bicycle have a worn sprocket? You might
>>be hearing chain-suck suppressed by a fixed length chain.
>>
>>As you may have noticed, a worn sprocket with an in-pitch chain skips
>>when loaded even though the wear to the sprocket is hard to detect. A
>>track bicycle doesn't skip, it just makes noise from forced engagement
>>and more noise under load when it tries hard to skip and can't.
>>
>>Jobst Brandt
>
>Dear Jobst,
>
>The gentle spring loading of the derailleur pulleys may produce less
>tension on the lower run of the chain--less twang as the chain exits
>the front and less twang as it enters the Z-bend at the rear.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Carl Fogel
I'll throw in my 2 cents. I often watch the Wednesday evening races at
the Kissena Park Velodrome, and mostly all I hear is the whosh as the
bikes go by. But there are a few bikes that make audible noise as they
go by, and I always figured that noise = friction of some kind, so the
more noise, the less efficient the bike. I would think that it would
be something to avoid.
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 08 Jun 2007 19:13:20
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
"dgk" <dgk@somewhere.com > wrote in message
news:lehi6319h60p098vnc6sden2nrf6fd17k8@4ax.com...
>
> I'll throw in my 2 cents. I often watch the Wednesday evening races at
> the Kissena Park Velodrome, and mostly all I hear is the whosh as the
> bikes go by. But there are a few bikes that make audible noise as they
> go by, and I always figured that noise = friction of some kind, so the
> more noise, the less efficient the bike. I would think that it would
> be something to avoid.
That has also been my experience. But as I said, since I only have hearing
in the vocal range I miss a lot.
It was pretty funny when I designed an intercom for a company and I was in
the control room and they were complaining about a ringing sound. Since it
was about 10 KHz I couldn't hear it and eventually I discovered some weird
thing with the lines running on the PC board by using an oscilloscope since
I couldn't hear it. Rerunning that one trace made the board silent. Pretty
weird since that wasn't a high impedence source or anything.
|
| |
Date: 05 Jun 2007 20:52:13
From: Troll Report
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
On 06 Jun 2007 03:44:46 GMT, jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Summary:
> Keywords:
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3123908086916868348
>
> The best part is that the photographer had to also be on a bicycle and
> keep up with these riders while not losing a frame or picture angle.
>
> Jobst Brandt
Thats a cool one. Anyway, are you going to the alps anytime soon? Bring
your fixie and a helmetcam I'm sure many would want to see some of those
descents.
|
| | |
Date: 07 Jun 2007 15:57:57
From: Marlene Blanshay
Subject: Re: Bike Messengers NYC
|
i've seen that...eeek...i just close my eyes watching it. Not for the
nervous.
Troll Report wrote:
> On 06 Jun 2007 03:44:46 GMT, jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>
>> Summary:
>> Keywords:
>>
>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3123908086916868348
>>
>> The best part is that the photographer had to also be on a bicycle and
>> keep up with these riders while not losing a frame or picture angle.
>>
>> Jobst Brandt
>
> Thats a cool one. Anyway, are you going to the alps anytime soon? Bring
> your fixie and a helmetcam I'm sure many would want to see some of those
> descents.
|
|
