Bike seat question

bicycle-forum.net
Promoting biking discussion.

Main

Date: 07 Nov 2007 12:44:11
From:
Subject: Bike seat question

Can anyone out there recommend a "dual platform" seat?

My bikes have the traditional narrow seat and I'm experiencing the
typical nerve damage and pain to the point where I can't ride
anymore. I have a "road bike" and a "hybrid" touring bike.

Greatly appreciate a reply to trent@gonzowrite.com.

Thanking you in advance,

Trent

Date: 18 Nov 2007 07:24:36
From:
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

On Nov 7, 1:44 pm, tr...@gonzowrite.com wrote:
> Can anyone out there recommend a "dual platform" seat?
>
> My bikes have the traditional narrow seat and I'm experiencing the
> typical nerve damage and pain to the point where I can't ride
> anymore. I have a "road bike" and a "hybrid" touring bike.
>
> Greatly appreciate a reply to tr...@gonzowrite.com.
>
> Thanking you in advance,
>
> Trent

Brooks saddles. Problems solved.

Date: 18 Nov 2007 16:39:28
From: Lou Holtman
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

clark.davison@gmail.com wrote:
> On Nov 7, 1:44 pm, tr...@gonzowrite.com wrote:
>> Can anyone out there recommend a "dual platform" seat?
>>
>> My bikes have the traditional narrow seat and I'm experiencing the
>> typical nerve damage and pain to the point where I can't ride
>> anymore. I have a "road bike" and a "hybrid" touring bike.
>>
>> Greatly appreciate a reply to tr...@gonzowrite.com.
>>
>> Thanking you in advance,
>>
>> Trent
>
> Brooks saddles. Problems solved.

Are you sure? You give a refund if it doesn't solve the problem?

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu (http://www.nb.nu)

Date: 13 Nov 2007 05:13:22
From:
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

On Nov 7, 3:44 pm, tr...@gonzowrite.com wrote:
> Can anyone out there recommend a "dual platform" seat?
>
> My bikes have the traditional narrow seat and I'm experiencing the
> typical nerve damage and pain to the point where I can't ride
> anymore. I have a "road bike" and a "hybrid" touring bike.
>
> Greatly appreciate a reply to tr...@gonzowrite.com.
>
> Thanking you in advance,
>
> Trent

you should try the new selle success kevlar saddle. what you really
need is not width, but sit bone support.
carlos
www.bikingthings.com
Get Faster, Enjoy Cycling, Get Fit, Live Better.

Date: 11 Nov 2007 16:56:15
From:
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

On Nov 11, 6:27 am, DougC <dcim...@norcom2000.com > wrote:
> jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>
> > Poor riding positions are most commonly found with beginners, riders
> > who have no long term mileage that would develop tougher skin in the
> > appropriate areas of contact with the saddle. Put these two together
> > and you get chafing raspberries on the pressure points. I am not
> > convinced that position comes first in this problem.
>
> > Jobst Brandt
>
> I don't want tough skin on my ass, and won't do anything that requires it.
> -------
> I tend to suspect that a lot of "getting used to a saddle" is low-level
> nerve damage, rather like how boxers get used to minor concussions. Just
> because "it hurt at first but doesn't anymore" doesn't mean something
> good happened.

I think you're worrying unnecessarily.

Ever work with your hands? Or play a musical instrument? Or even
spend a lot of time writing with a pencil? Your skin will toughen at
the points where it takes pressure.

It's only "damage" if you overdo it before gradually toughening the
skin. Then you get sore. It's no big deal!

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 11 Nov 2007 07:52:46
From: andresmuro@aol.com
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

On Nov 11, 5:36 am, Jim Behning
<jimbehn...@doesthisblockpork.mindspring.com > wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 05:27:15 -0600, DougC <dcim...@norcom2000.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>
> >> Poor riding positions are most commonly found with beginners, riders
> >> who have no long term mileage that would develop tougher skin in the
> >> appropriate areas of contact with the saddle. Put these two together
> >> and you get chafing raspberries on the pressure points. I am not
> >> convinced that position comes first in this problem.
>
> >> Jobst Brandt
>
> >I don't want tough skin on my ass, and won't do anything that requires it.
> > -------
> >I tend to suspect that a lot of "getting used to a saddle" is low-level
> >nerve damage, rather like how boxers get used to minor concussions. Just
> >because "it hurt at first but doesn't anymore" doesn't mean something
> >good happened.
> >~
>
> If you were to check the skin condition of any rider who rides more
> than a few hours a week I would bet you would find calloused or
> toughened up skin where the saddle hits or rubs. You do not find a
> carpenter who uses a hammer all day that does not have calloused
> hands. You do not find a walking person who does not have thicker skin
> on the bottom of their feet. If you find a person who walks barefoot
> all the time outside they may have even thicker skin than a person who
> walks in shoes the same amount.

I have been using diaper rash ointment on my butt for quite a while
now (only when I ride). I put a liberal amount of that stuff on my
biking shorts and I can go for several hours with absolutely no
discomfort. I buy big cans at walgreens for about $11.00. I tried
other stuff, but zinc oxide (diaper rash ointment) doesn't break down
easily. I've gone from using thick padded short to skinny padded ones
and the ointment is great. For anyone who experiences discomfort while
riding, I highly recommend it. It will prevent chaffing and
irritation, but it won't prevent numbness though. BTW, my butt feels
smooth and doesn't seem to have riding calluses. I used to have a
rough butt and calluses both on my hands and butt the first few years
of my cycling life, 24 yrs ago. Not anymore.

Andres

Date: 11 Nov 2007 13:32:19
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

andresmuro@aol.com wrote:
> On Nov 11, 5:36 am, Jim Behning
> <jimbehn...@doesthisblockpork.mindspring.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 05:27:15 -0600, DougC <dcim...@norcom2000.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>>>
>>>> Poor riding positions are most commonly found with beginners,
>>>> riders who have no long term mileage that would develop tougher
>>>> skin in the appropriate areas of contact with the saddle. Put
>>>> these two together and you get chafing raspberries on the
>>>> pressure points. I am not convinced that position comes first
>>>> in this problem. Jobst Brandt
>>>
>>> I don't want tough skin on my ass, and won't do anything that
>>> requires it. ------- I tend to suspect that a lot of "getting
>>> used to a saddle" is low-level nerve damage, rather like how
>>> boxers get used to minor concussions. Just because "it hurt at
>>> first but doesn't anymore" doesn't mean something good happened.
>>> ~
>> If you were to check the skin condition of any rider who rides more
>> than a few hours a week I would bet you would find calloused or
>> toughened up skin where the saddle hits or rubs. You do not find a
>> carpenter who uses a hammer all day that does not have calloused
>> hands. You do not find a walking person who does not have thicker
>> skin on the bottom of their feet. If you find a person who walks
>> barefoot all the time outside they may have even thicker skin than
>> a person who walks in shoes the same amount.

You know, I think it's not something I want to check! ;-) However,
It's quite likely that skin does toughen up. I have more trouble with
chafing and saddle sores in the spring every year, after two or three
months of relatively minimal riding (depending on the winter wondeland
weather), than I do in the summmer or fall even though my riders are
longer in those times of year.

> I have been using diaper rash ointment on my butt for quite a while
> now (only when I ride). I put a liberal amount of that stuff on my
> biking shorts and I can go for several hours with absolutely no
> discomfort. I buy big cans at walgreens for about $11.00. I tried
> other stuff, but zinc oxide (diaper rash ointment) doesn't break down
> easily. I've gone from using thick padded short to skinny padded
> ones and the ointment is great. For anyone who experiences discomfort
> while riding, I highly recommend it. It will prevent chaffing and
> irritation, but it won't prevent numbness though. BTW, my butt feels
> smooth and doesn't seem to have riding calluses. I used to have a
> rough butt and calluses both on my hands and butt the first few years
> of my cycling life, 24 yrs ago. Not anymore.

When I started playing guitar back in 1979, I developed thick, visible
callouses on my fingertips. Nearly 30 years later, the skin on my
fingertips is toughened but there has not been a thick callous on them
in years. I still play guitar a couple of hours a day- I use 12s on my
main guitars, 10s on the Sel-Mac copy. I think that the skin develops
toughness rather than callouses with constant exposure.

Date: 11 Nov 2007 14:06:30
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

Tim McNamara wrote:
> andresmuro@aol.com wrote:
>> On Nov 11, 5:36 am, Jim Behning
>> <jimbehn...@doesthisblockpork.mindspring.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 05:27:15 -0600, DougC <dcim...@norcom2000.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> >>>
>>>>> Poor riding positions are most commonly found with beginners,
>>>>> riders who have no long term mileage that would develop tougher
>>>>> skin in the appropriate areas of contact with the saddle. Put
>>>>> these two together and you get chafing raspberries on the
>>>>> pressure points. I am not convinced that position comes first
>>>>> in this problem. Jobst Brandt
> >>>
>>>> I don't want tough skin on my ass, and won't do anything that
>>>> requires it. ------- I tend to suspect that a lot of "getting
>>>> used to a saddle" is low-level nerve damage, rather like how
>>>> boxers get used to minor concussions. Just because "it hurt at
>>>> first but doesn't anymore" doesn't mean something good happened. ~
>>> If you were to check the skin condition of any rider who rides more
>>> than a few hours a week I would bet you would find calloused or
>>> toughened up skin where the saddle hits or rubs. You do not find a
>>> carpenter who uses a hammer all day that does not have calloused
>>> hands. You do not find a walking person who does not have thicker
>>> skin on the bottom of their feet. If you find a person who walks
>>> barefoot all the time outside they may have even thicker skin than
>>> a person who walks in shoes the same amount.
>
> You know, I think it's not something I want to check! ;-) However,
> It's quite likely that skin does toughen up. I have more trouble with
> chafing and saddle sores in the spring every year, after two or three
> months of relatively minimal riding (depending on the winter wondeland
> weather), than I do in the summmer or fall even though my riders are
> longer in those times of year....

Politically incorrect comment: I do not.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Tradition is the worst rational for action.

Date: 11 Nov 2007 15:35:11
From: Ken Bour
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

Can we assume that you are talking about perineum pressure? If so, I had
that problem recently on my indoor training (stationary) bike. I was doing
fine until I thought it would be a good idea to put the front wheel up on
one of those plastic risers. That changed the position of the saddle
relative to my torso position, of course, which then placed enormous
pressure on that sensitive "nerve." My pecker went numb in just 15 minutes
of pedaling (I stupidly continued for the full hour) and normal sensation
took alarmingly long to return. I don't mind reporting that this experience
worried me! Truthfully, I didn't realize at first that the riser was the
cause, so I started researching to find a more forgiving saddle. A lot of
people were very complimentary of the Specialized Toupe saddle for this
particular symptom, so I bought one. The final combined solution was
twofold: (1) saddle with better body geometry (excellent!) and (2) removal
of the plastic riser allowing the front tire to rest on the floor.

I haven't experienced any "pressure" problems on my road bike which has a
Fizik Arione saddle (approx. 5 degree forward tilt).

Ken Bour

<trent@gonzowrite.com > wrote in message
news:1194468251.981959.70170@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> Can anyone out there recommend a "dual platform" seat?
>
> My bikes have the traditional narrow seat and I'm experiencing the
> typical nerve damage and pain to the point where I can't ride
> anymore. I have a "road bike" and a "hybrid" touring bike.
>
> Greatly appreciate a reply to trent@gonzowrite.com.
>
> Thanking you in advance,
>
> Trent
>

Date: 11 Nov 2007 19:54:40
From:
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

Ken Bour writes:

> Can we assume that you are talking about perineum pressure?

No. This is about pelvic pressure on the wide part of the saddle.
Don't let's get started about saddles with fart slots.

> If so, I had that problem recently on my indoor training
> (stationary) bike. I was doing fine until I thought it would be a
> good idea to put the front wheel up on one of those plastic risers.
> That changed the position of the saddle relative to my torso
> position, of course, which then placed enormous pressure on that
> sensitive "nerve." My pecker went numb in just 15 minutes of
> pedaling (I stupidly continued for the full hour) and normal
> sensation took alarmingly long to return. I don't mind reporting
> that this experience worried me! Truthfully, I didn't realize at
> first that the riser was the cause, so I started researching to find
> a more forgiving saddle. A lot of people were very complimentary of
> the Specialized Toupe saddle for this particular symptom, so I
> bought one. The final combined solution was twofold: (1) saddle
> with better body geometry (excellent!) and (2) removal of the
> plastic riser allowing the front tire to rest on the floor.

This is an old story of non bicyclists telling us that we will become
impotent if we persist in riding on conventional bicycle saddles.

There will always be people with special physical problems who should
not try to tell the rest of bicyclists that they also have this
problem and should, for instance, ride recumbents and the like.

> I haven't experienced any "pressure" problems on my road bike which
> has a Fizik Arione saddle (approx. 5 degree forward tilt).

I'm glad you found a solution to your problem.

Jobst Brandt

Date: 11 Nov 2007 14:10:03
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
> ...
> There will always be people with special physical problems who should
> not try to tell the rest of bicyclists that they also have this
> problem and should, for instance, ride recumbents and the like.

Similarly, there will always be upright riders that should not try to
tell EVERYONE that proper fit on an upright will cure comfort problems
for ALL riders. Some post here regularly.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Tradition is the worst rational for action.

Date: 10 Nov 2007 11:23:35
From:
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

On Nov 7, 3:44 pm, tr...@gonzowrite.com wrote:
> Can anyone out there recommend a "dual platform" seat?
>
> My bikes have the traditional narrow seat and I'm experiencing the
> typical nerve damage and pain to the point where I can't ride
> anymore. I have a "road bike" and a "hybrid" touring bike.
>
> Greatly appreciate a reply to tr...@gonzowrite.com.
>
> Thanking you in advance,
>
> Trent

i have to tell you, what you got to look for is saddle with cut offs
in the middle. i have also found that fabric saddles like the on es
that use kevlar are much better than leather or syntetic leather. so
my take on it find kevland and carbon saddles
regards,
carlos
www.bikingthings.com
Get Faster, Enjoy Cycling, Get Fit, Live Better.

Date: 10 Nov 2007 10:59:08
From: Harley
Subject: Re: Bike seat question (Terry)

You did ask for a recommend. I have 2 "Terry" saddles; my favorite is
the touring model. I have recommended "Terry" over the half dozen I went
thru looking for long distance numb-free comfort. harley

Date: 10 Nov 2007 16:48:43
From:
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

On Nov 9, 3:10 pm, DougC <dcim...@norcom2000.com > wrote:
> j
> Seems to me that padding in upright bicycling shorts has been around for
> a long time, in one form or another--much earlier than the Flite
> saddle,,,

And before they were padded, they were lined with chamois. That is,
real chamois skin. That's why I believe the important function of the
liner is to prevent wrinkles and abrasion, not provide padding.
Padding could (and probably should) be in the saddle itself.

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 10 Nov 2007 11:26:42
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
> On Nov 9, 3:10 pm, DougC <dcim...@norcom2000.com> wrote:
>> j
>> Seems to me that padding in upright bicycling shorts has been around for
>> a long time, in one form or another--much earlier than the Flite
>> saddle,,,
>
> And before they were padded, they were lined with chamois. That is,
> real chamois skin. That's why I believe the important function of the
> liner is to prevent wrinkles and abrasion, not provide padding.
> Padding could (and probably should) be in the saddle itself.
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>

How many layers of chamois were used? Just one, or more than one?.....
~

Date: 10 Nov 2007 13:09:03
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

Doug Cimper wrote:
> frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Nov 9, 3:10 pm, DougC <dcim...@norcom2000.com> wrote:
>>> j
>>> Seems to me that padding in upright bicycling shorts has been around for
>>> a long time, in one form or another--much earlier than the Flite
>>> saddle,,,
>>
>> And before they were padded, they were lined with chamois. That is,
>> real chamois skin. That's why I believe the important function of the
>> liner is to prevent wrinkles and abrasion, not provide padding.
>> Padding could (and probably should) be in the saddle itself.
>>
>> - Frank Krygowski
>>
>
> How many layers of chamois were used? Just one, or more than one?.....
> ~
I would not want one chamois in my shorts, much less more than one!
<http://www.francethisway.com/wildlife/chamois.jpg > ;)

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Tradition is the worst rational for action.

Date: 10 Nov 2007 12:13:46
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

>> DougC <dcim...@norcom2000.com> wrote:
>>> Seems to me that padding in upright bicycling shorts has been around for
>>> a long time, in one form or another--much earlier than the Flite
>>> saddle

> frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
>> And before they were padded, they were lined with chamois. That is,
>> real chamois skin. That's why I believe the important function of the
>> liner is to prevent wrinkles and abrasion, not provide padding.
>> Padding could (and probably should) be in the saddle itself.

DougC wrote:
> How many layers of chamois were used? Just one, or more than one?.....

One man's experience:
About half my shorts are a wool knit with a goatskin (chamois) liner, no
pad. Half are lycra with a chamois liner, no pad. Chamois has no weave
or direction and is absorbent, so chafing is minimized.

I used to ride leather but changed to a Turbo on my #1 bike years ago.
(My Id�ale's aluminum frame was cracked following a typically fatal bike
loan). It has a conservative shape with moderate pad.

The bikes I ride most have plain nylon Cinelli saddles which are just as
comfortable as the day I bought the first many years ago. I've never
wanted a pad nor had any complaint but as always YMMV.

In my experience, saddle/shorts complaints are often a symptom of riding
position difficulties. But as Michael Schwering always said, fitting
people to their bikes is good for cycling, selling cyclists a new saddle
every few weeks pays the rent.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Date: 10 Nov 2007 15:54:38
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

A Muzi wrote:
>
> In my experience, saddle/shorts complaints are often a symptom of riding
> position difficulties.

In my experience as well. Poor saddle adjustment as well as other
position problems account for a lot of discomfort wrongly blamed on the
saddle.

Date: 11 Nov 2007 03:01:30
From:
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

Tim McNamara writes:

>> In my experience, saddle/shorts complaints are often a symptom of
>> riding position difficulties.

> In my experience as well. Poor saddle adjustment as well as other
> position problems account for a lot of discomfort wrongly blamed on
> the saddle.

Poor riding positions are most commonly found with beginners, riders
who have no long term mileage that would develop tougher skin in the
appropriate areas of contact with the saddle. Put these two together
and you get chafing raspberries on the pressure points. I am not
convinced that position comes first in this problem.

Jobst Brandt

Date: 11 Nov 2007 05:27:15
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>
> Poor riding positions are most commonly found with beginners, riders
> who have no long term mileage that would develop tougher skin in the
> appropriate areas of contact with the saddle. Put these two together
> and you get chafing raspberries on the pressure points. I am not
> convinced that position comes first in this problem.
>
> Jobst Brandt

I don't want tough skin on my ass, and won't do anything that requires it.
-------
I tend to suspect that a lot of "getting used to a saddle" is low-level
nerve damage, rather like how boxers get used to minor concussions. Just
because "it hurt at first but doesn't anymore" doesn't mean something
good happened.
~

Date: 11 Nov 2007 19:45:42
From:
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

Doug Cimper writes:

>> Poor riding positions are most commonly found with beginners,
>> riders who have no long term mileage that would develop tougher
>> skin in the appropriate areas of contact with the saddle. Put
>> these two together and you get chafing raspberries on the pressure
>> points. I am not convinced that position comes first in this
>> problem.

> I don't want tough skin on my ass, and won't do anything that
> requires it.

> I tend to suspect that a lot of "getting used to a saddle" is
> low-level nerve damage, rather like how boxers get used to minor
> concussions. Just because "it hurt at first but doesn't anymore"
> doesn't mean something good happened.

This isn't about nerves but rather surface abrasion, just as skin on
the hands gets accustomed to handlebars. A new rider, if able to ride
long distances, would develop blisters from unaccustomed stress on
tender skin... on the hands and on the buttocks.

Just the same, there are lateral forces on the skin where one sits,
the smaller of these being absorbed by laterally displacing padding in
shear, whether on the saddle or in the shorts. That's why a thin
layer Spenco gel on saddles served a purpose. When riders started
choosing saddles by weight, padded shorts came to the rescue.

Jobst Brandt

Date: 11 Nov 2007 07:36:07
From: Jim Behning
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 05:27:15 -0600, DougC <dcimper@norcom2000.com >
wrote:

>jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>>
>> Poor riding positions are most commonly found with beginners, riders
>> who have no long term mileage that would develop tougher skin in the
>> appropriate areas of contact with the saddle. Put these two together
>> and you get chafing raspberries on the pressure points. I am not
>> convinced that position comes first in this problem.
>>
>> Jobst Brandt
>
>I don't want tough skin on my ass, and won't do anything that requires it.
> -------
>I tend to suspect that a lot of "getting used to a saddle" is low-level
>nerve damage, rather like how boxers get used to minor concussions. Just
>because "it hurt at first but doesn't anymore" doesn't mean something
>good happened.
>~
If you were to check the skin condition of any rider who rides more
than a few hours a week I would bet you would find calloused or
toughened up skin where the saddle hits or rubs. You do not find a
carpenter who uses a hammer all day that does not have calloused
hands. You do not find a walking person who does not have thicker skin
on the bottom of their feet. If you find a person who walks barefoot
all the time outside they may have even thicker skin than a person who
walks in shoes the same amount.

Date:
From:
Subject:

Date: 10 Nov 2007 17:34:11
From:
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

Doug Cimper writes:

>>> Seems to me that padding in upright bicycling shorts has been
>>> around for a long time, in one form or another--much earlier than
>>> the Flite saddle,,,

>> And before they were padded, they were lined with chamois. That
>> is, real chamois skin. That's why I believe the important function
>> of the liner is to prevent wrinkles and abrasion, not provide
>> padding. Padding could (and probably should) be in the saddle
>> itself.

> How many layers of chamois were used? Just one, or more than one?

The shorts were wool and had one layer of chamois edged with a zigzag
stitch. The leather was like the chamois used for wiping a shiny car
wash dry. The trouble was that with washing the chamois got stiff and
it didn't allow cleaning "skid marks" well.

Jobst Brandt

Date: 10 Nov 2007 16:44:56
From:
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

On Nov 9, 3:10 pm, DougC <dcim...@norcom2000.com > wrote:
> frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >> You may want to read:
>
> > http://www.bicyclinglife.com/PracticalCycling/Sore.htm
>
> >> It gives many ideas for improving saddle comfort.
>
> Yea but most of them are silly.

Oh? They work. That's proof enough that they're not silly.

The only one I thought was a bit silly was down toward the bottom.
You know, the one about spending thousands of dollars on a completely
goofy, non-standard machine. I mean, there _are_ limits!

I only put that in there to appease a certain crowd. ;-)

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 09 Nov 2007 11:35:25
From:
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

On Nov 7, 3:44 pm, tr...@gonzowrite.com wrote:
> Can anyone out there recommend a "dual platform" seat?
>
> My bikes have the traditional narrow seat and I'm experiencing the
> typical nerve damage and pain to the point where I can't ride
> anymore. I have a "road bike" and a "hybrid" touring bike.

I've briefly tried a couple of the "dual platform" seats. I thought
they were terrible. I felt very unsteady on them - very unconnected
to the bike.

You may want to read http://www.bicyclinglife.com/PracticalCycling/Sore.htm
It gives many ideas for improving saddle comfort.

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 09 Nov 2007 19:52:38
From:
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

Frank Krygowski writes:

>> Can anyone out there recommend a "dual platform" seat?

>> My bikes have the traditional narrow seat and I'm experiencing the
>> typical nerve damage and pain to the point where I can't ride
>> anymore. I have a "road bike" and a "hybrid" touring bike.

> I've briefly tried a couple of the "dual platform" seats. I thought
> they were terrible. I felt very unsteady on them - very unconnected
> to the bike.

The obvious failure in understanding the concept arises from the
designers of these saddles not realizing that the pelvis, a single
unarticulated bone, rests on the wider part of the saddle. Typically,
Easy Seat assumed the legs rest on the saddle, and because they hinge
in the hips, the two halves were deigned to pivot fore and aft.

http://painfreecycling.com/?gclid=CKbLmcbD0I8CFSBeagod_zL28w

> You may want to read:

http://www.bicyclinglife.com/PracticalCycling/Sore.htm

> It gives many ideas for improving saddle comfort.

Heavy padding in shorts came via the weight weenies who gave birth to
such saddles as the Flite saddle that is a hard shingle of little
weight. No one weights riding shorts and with no cushion in the
saddle, it is now in the shorts.

http://www.selleitalia.com/

Jobst Brandt

Date: 09 Nov 2007 14:10:53
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>
>
>> You may want to read:
>
> http://www.bicyclinglife.com/PracticalCycling/Sore.htm
>
>> It gives many ideas for improving saddle comfort.

Yea but most of them are silly.

>
> Heavy padding in shorts came via the weight weenies who gave birth to
> such saddles as the Flite saddle that is a hard shingle of little
> weight. No one weights riding shorts and with no cushion in the
> saddle, it is now in the shorts.
>
> http://www.selleitalia.com/
>
> Jobst Brandt

Seems to me that padding in upright bicycling shorts has been around for
a long time, in one form or another--much earlier than the Flite
saddle,,, (steaks in the shorts? and this was way back MOST saddles were
leather! Oh the ignominy).
~

Date: 09 Nov 2007 23:11:40
From:
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

Doug C? writes:

>>> You may want to read:

http://www.bicyclinglife.com/PracticalCycling/Sore.htm

>>> It gives many ideas for improving saddle comfort.

> Yea but most of them are silly.

>> Heavy padding in shorts came via the weight weenies who gave birth
>> to such saddles as the Flite saddle that is a hard shingle of
>> little weight. No one weights riding shorts and with no cushion in
>> the saddle, it is now in the shorts.

http://www.selleitalia.com/

> Seems to me that padding in upright bicycling shorts has been around
> for a long time, in one form or another--much earlier than the Flite
> saddle,,, (steaks in the shorts? and this was way back MOST saddles
> were leather! Oh the ignominy).

I take it you haven't looked at new shorts at your local bike shop
recently. It's hard to find any that don't have more than 10mm thick
padding and legs long enough to reach near to the knees.

And the zigzag stitching is on the outside. How svelte!

Jobst Brandt

Date: 10 Nov 2007 08:34:51
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>
> I take it you haven't looked at new shorts at your local bike shop
> recently. It's hard to find any that don't have more than 10mm thick
> padding and legs long enough to reach near to the knees.
>
> And the zigzag stitching is on the outside. How svelte!
>
> Jobst Brandt

I don't look at padded shorts at all it's true, as I no longer have any
need for them. And "only 10mm of padding" is about 10mm more than what
/my/ shorts have.

I will admit that I have run into a lot of ordinary people (those being
the non-bicycle-riding types in the US, not the "ordinary
bicycle"-type-of-riders) who had no idea that cycling shorts were
specially-padded at all, and had never tried them.
.....
But I would still maintain that for most people, riding a recumbent
without padded shorts is going to be much more comfortable than riding
an upright bike with padded shorts.
~

Date: 10 Nov 2007 23:55:56
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

In article <MjjZi.7$bX4.3@newsfe05.lga >,
DougC <dcimper@norcom2000.com > wrote:

> jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> >
> > I take it you haven't looked at new shorts at your local bike shop
> > recently. It's hard to find any that don't have more than 10mm thick
> > padding and legs long enough to reach near to the knees.
> >
> > And the zigzag stitching is on the outside. How svelte!
> >
> > Jobst Brandt
>
> I don't look at padded shorts at all it's true, as I no longer have any
> need for them. And "only 10mm of padding" is about 10mm more than what
> /my/ shorts have.
>
> I will admit that I have run into a lot of ordinary people (those being
> the non-bicycle-riding types in the US, not the "ordinary
> bicycle"-type-of-riders) who had no idea that cycling shorts were
> specially-padded at all, and had never tried them.
> .....
> But I would still maintain that for most people, riding a recumbent
> without padded shorts is going to be much more comfortable than riding
> an upright bike with padded shorts.

Bicycling is not supposed to be comfortable.
Ride until you are worn out, then rest.

--
Michael Press

Date: 11 Nov 2007 05:12:18
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

Michael Press wrote:
>
> Bicycling is not supposed to be comfortable.
> Ride until you are worn out, then rest.
>

So why the padded shorts then? Why all the different-shaped and widths
of saddles? Or does that comfort not count?
~

Date: 11 Nov 2007 16:43:04
From: (PeteCresswell)
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

Per DougC:
>So why the padded shorts then? Why all the different-shaped and widths
>of saddles? Or does that comfort not count?

It's pain reduction, not comfort.... -)
--
PeteCresswell

Date: 10 Nov 2007 12:34:40
From: (PeteCresswell)
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

Per DougC:
>I don't look at padded shorts at all it's true, as I no longer have any
>need for them. And "only 10mm of padding" is about 10mm more than what
>/my/ shorts have.

I rode pretty hard for at least six years never having even
thought of special riding clothes.

I wear cycling shorts now, but as far as I can see their main
function could be fulfilled by wearing briefs instead of boxers.

The other function that I can see is streamlining. I've got one
stretch on the way to where I ride where I can crest a hill at,
say, 20mph, and then coast on a light up-grade that has a number
of mailboxes and other markings spaced fairly close. Trying it
with various types of clothing shows how significant the air drag
of loose clothes is.
--
PeteCresswell

Date: 10 Nov 2007 22:55:30
From: Steve Gravrock
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

On 2007-11-10, (PeteCresswell) <x@y.Invalid > wrote:

> I wear cycling shorts now, but as far as I can see their main
> function could be fulfilled by wearing briefs instead of boxers.

I used to do that for mountain biking before I finally gave in and bought
some bike shorts. I don't recommend it. The leg band of the briefs hit
right where my weight rested on the saddle.

Date: 10 Nov 2007 15:23:41
From: still me
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:34:51 -0600, DougC <dcimper@norcom2000.com >
wrote:

>I will admit that I have run into a lot of ordinary people (those being
>the non-bicycle-riding types in the US, not the "ordinary
>bicycle"-type-of-riders) who had no idea that cycling shorts were
>specially-padded at all, and had never tried them.
>.....
>But I would still maintain that for most people, riding a recumbent
>without padded shorts is going to be much more comfortable than riding
>an upright bike with padded shorts.

Padding is for wimps. Real men ride in unpadded shorts, and they don't
wear anything that remotely resembles lycra or spandex.

Date: 10 Nov 2007 10:16:26
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

still me wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:34:51 -0600, DougC <dcimper@norcom2000.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I will admit that I have run into a lot of ordinary people (those being
>> the non-bicycle-riding types in the US, not the "ordinary
>> bicycle"-type-of-riders) who had no idea that cycling shorts were
>> specially-padded at all, and had never tried them.
>> .....
>> But I would still maintain that for most people, riding a recumbent
>> without padded shorts is going to be much more comfortable than riding
>> an upright bike with padded shorts.
>
> Padding is for wimps. Real men ride in unpadded shorts, and they don't
> wear anything that remotely resembles lycra or spandex.
>
Who needs padding when you have a saddle like this?
<http://sheldonbrown.com/real-man.html >

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Tradition is the worst rational for action.

Date: 09 Nov 2007 11:31:58
From:
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

On Nov 8, 6:54 pm, DougC <dcim...@norcom2000.com > wrote:
>
> Bicycle saddles are generally so
> uncomfortable that they aren't used for any other seat or vehicle.

Hmm. I figure that it's because other types of seats or vehicles
don't involve using your butt muscles to produce power.

>The same people who insist they can be comfortable, usually cannot (or
> refuse to try to) explain why "normal" bicycling-specific shorts have
> padding in them and "recumbent" bicycling shorts don't.

"Padding" in shorts is there largely to prevent wrinkles in the fabric
from digging into your skin. It's necessary for narrower saddles,
because the narrower saddle supports a rider on his sit bones and
leaves the muscles largely unhindered, for producing power. When done
right, this works extremely well.

Recumbent riders sit on their butt muscles. This may be one of the
reasons that, despite better aerodynamics, ordinary unfaired
recumbents are usually no faster than uprights.

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 09 Nov 2007 01:32:46
From: Jim Flom
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

Date: 08 Nov 2007 17:54:14
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

trent@gonzowrite.com wrote:
> Can anyone out there recommend a "dual platform" seat?
>
> My bikes have the traditional narrow seat and I'm experiencing the
> typical nerve damage and pain to the point where I can't ride
> anymore. I have a "road bike" and a "hybrid" touring bike.
>
> Greatly appreciate a reply to trent@gonzowrite.com.
>
> Thanking you in advance,
>
> Trent
>

You could get a recumbent bike and avoid the problem pretty much
entirely. There are far fewer recumbent-bike dealers, the bikes tend to
be more expensive than a comparably-equipped upright and transporting
them can be a hassle, but the /riding/ is simply wonderful.

There's also the RANS crank-forward bikes that look more normal, but
that still have a nicer/larger seat. The RANS bikes use a special
seatpost and seat that cannot be exchanged for a typical saddle.

The general problems people see with mounting ergo seats on upright
bicycles is that the riders tend to slide forward off the seat. Some
ergo seats "fix" this problem by mounting farther-back than normal, but
then the rider is leaning over forward more, and that causes more
problems with hand numbness and neck strain.

There are a couple bikes that might benefit from ergo-style seats: the
Day6bicycles and the Lightfoot Surefoot. These appear to mount
conventional saddles and have a pedaling position that is far enough
forward that sliding forward off any type of seat shouldn't be a
problem, but I don't own either so I don't really know. They just give a
riding position that is very similar to the RANS bikes, which I do own
one of.

-----

As far as what you've got, you could try a wider seat, and play with the
tilt angle--but you're not likely to ever arrive at any combination
that's really "comfortable" to sit on. Bicycle saddles are generally so
uncomfortable that they aren't used for any other seat or vehicle. The
same people who insist they can be comfortable, usually cannot (or
refuse to try to) explain why "normal" bicycling-specific shorts have
padding in them and "recumbent" bicycling shorts don't.
~

Date: 07 Nov 2007 20:42:11
From: JeffWills
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

On Nov 7, 3:28 pm, "BobT" <RobertLeeTaylor...@THISSuddenLink.net >
wrote:

> Saddle choices are a very personal matter in which not everyone agrees.
>
> BobT

True. I'd ridden a recumbent for many years
( http://home.comcast.net/~jeff_wills/jeff-big.jpg ) before I found
that WTB saddles work for me on uprights when combined with a
particular fitting setup. If you're experiencing nerve damage (which
is *not* typical), you should consult a professional bike fitter...
*before* you start trying different saddles.

Jeff

Date: 09 Nov 2007 10:15:31
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

"JeffWills" <jwills@pacifier.com > wrote in message
news:1194496931.570981.108720@s15g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 7, 3:28 pm, "BobT" <RobertLeeTaylor...@THISSuddenLink.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Saddle choices are a very personal matter in which not everyone
agrees.
> >
> > BobT
>
> True. I'd ridden a recumbent for many years
> ( http://home.comcast.net/~jeff_wills/jeff-big.jpg ) before I found
> that WTB saddles work for me on uprights when combined with a
> particular fitting setup. If you're experiencing nerve damage (which
> is *not* typical), you should consult a professional bike fitter...
> *before* you start trying different saddles.
>
> Jeff
>

Me too. I've found that the WTB Pure V model saddles are the next best
thing to a well broken in Brooks Pro. I need a slightly wider saddle that
flat across the top in the rear.

The WTBs have what they call the "whale Tail" design plus the "Love
Channel" recessed area down the middle and a gel area in the front.

As mentioned by others, bike saddle fit is a very personal thing. Poor
fitting saddles are one of the biggest deterrents to people riding their
bikes.

Chas.

Date: 07 Nov 2007 17:28:11
From: BobT
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

<trent@gonzowrite.com > wrote in message
news:1194468251.981959.70170@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> Can anyone out there recommend a "dual platform" seat?
>
> My bikes have the traditional narrow seat and I'm experiencing the
> typical nerve damage and pain to the point where I can't ride
> anymore. I have a "road bike" and a "hybrid" touring bike.
>
> Greatly appreciate a reply to trent@gonzowrite.com.
>
> Thanking you in advance,
>
> Trent
>
You may not really want a dual platform / split saddle. Many people find
that they don't work very well. Look here to get some basic information
that might help more than looking for a split seat:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html

Mr. Brown specifically addresses the split saddle question near the bottom
of the his page.

Sometimes you may need to replace your saddle to solve your problem.
Sometimes its more of a matter of your overall position on the bike - the
relationship of where your hands, feet, and rear-end are in relationship to
each other. Sometimes its simply requires adjusting the saddle fore/aft
position, tilt, and/or height rather than replacing the saddle.

Saddle choices are a very personal matter in which not everyone agrees. For
me, the Brooks traditional leather saddles, particularly sprung ones, are
the most comfortable. Your mileage may vary. These leather saddles are not
stylish and they are heavy. The plastic / synthetic types of saddles are
much more popular. If you will be riding in the rain a lot, I'd avoid a
leather saddle.

BobT

Date: 09 Nov 2007 20:20:16
From: Paul Kopit
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:28:11 -0600, "BobT"
<RobertLeeTaylorCUT@THISSuddenLink.net > wrote:

>Saddle choices are a very personal matter in which not everyone agrees. For
>me, the Brooks traditional leather saddles, particularly sprung ones, are
>the most comfortable. Your mileage may vary. These leather saddles are not
>stylish and they are heavy. The plastic / synthetic types of saddles are
>much more popular. If you will be riding in the rain a lot, I'd avoid a
>leather saddle.

I agree about the saddle choice. I don't think that the springs make
any difference. You have to hit a very, very large bump before the
springs compress. The hammock like suspension of the saddle does
absorb most bumps well. I use a B17 on my round town bike.

Date: 09 Nov 2007 17:56:53
From: (PeteCresswell)
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

Per Paul Kopit:
>I don't think that the springs make
>any difference. You have to hit a very, very large bump before the
>springs compress.

I guess tolerance to that stuff varies then.

On old road bike, I used to have a Brooks B-72 (slightly sprung).

The one time I tried a totally-rigid saddle on it, I thought the
fillings were going to bounce right out of my teeth every time I
hit a bump.
--
PeteCresswell

Date: 07 Nov 2007 15:02:24
From: Colin Campbell
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

Date: 07 Nov 2007 16:39:01
From: (PeteCresswell)
Subject: Re: Bike seat question

Per trent@gonzowrite.com:
>Can anyone out there recommend a "dual platform" seat?
>
>My bikes have the traditional narrow seat and I'm experiencing the
>typical nerve damage and pain to the point where I can't ride
>anymore. I have a "road bike" and a "hybrid" touring bike.

First thing, you have to find out how wide your sit bones are and
compare that to saddle width.

Some think it needs a bottle of tequila and a trusted friend....
but all you really have to do is sit on something that takes a
shape and measure the dents. A sheet of styrofoam on the corner
of a table works for me - as does a sheet of plain 8.5 x 11 paper
on a carpet of the right softness/texture.

Once you have a saddle that's wide enough, you need to look at
how far your sit bones are sinking into it.

Sinking=Bad.

Reason: it moves the pressure from your sit bones, which can
handle it, to what's beneath your perineum, which cannot.

If you've got a saddle that's wide enough and you're not sinking
into it, check the fore-aft angle.

Nose Way Up=Bad - same reason as softness; it loads up your soft
parts.

If everything else checks out, how about taking the edge off the
hits a little? Sprung saddle... or sprung seatpost.

Smarter people who know vastly more will chime in.... but at
least this will get the ball rolling.

--
PeteCresswell