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Main
Date: 19 Sep 2007 13:45:02
From: Garry Lee
Subject: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
3 and a half weeks ago I and a friend were knocked off our bikes by a
terrible driver who from a parked position performed a violent U-turn
as we passed her car, on a continuous white line, 15 m from a bend.
Insurance admits liability and she'll be prosecuted.
I was riding MTB and my handlebar with my braking left hand went
through windscreen and glass severed the extensor tendon on my left
index (which has been repaired) and smashed my third and ring fingers.
It'll be a long while before I cycle again.
it struck me that our hands are not protected by current designs, from
this type of injury.
Anyone see a design which protects against this?
If so I'll use it when I'm eventually able to cycle.
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Date: 23 Sep 2007 21:20:23
From:
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
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On Sep 21, 9:03 pm, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
> Yes, we've discussed this quite a bit. Kifer's survey design, of
> course, suffered from self-selection of subjects. People who had
> recently fallen off their bikes would be much more likely to
> participate in a survey that focused largely on crashes.
That's why Kifer presented his survey in a way he hoped would minimize
that self-selecting effect:
"This survey was a mixture of two kinds of questions: general
questions about cyclists and safety questions. I was very hesitant
about emphasizing the safety element in this survey as I did not want
it to be perceived as an accident survey, thus getting much more
attention from those who have busted their heads than from those who
have not. Since I wanted the test to have a low profile, I did not
advertise the test in newgroups or in mailing lists. This resulted in
a lower number taking the survey than I would have preferred, but I
feel more comfortable with the results."
> But still, apart from simple falls, the accident rate he found was,
> indeed, similar to that of Moritz. It was very low. Also, the
> definition of "more significant injury" was very much open to
> interpretation, and Ken noted the inconsistencies regarding that point
> in the responses.
I don't find that accident rate 'very low.' I think it is basically
wishful thinking on your part to say that. Kifer didn't find it very
low, either.
He (and Moritz) found that roughly 1-in-10 of relatively highly
experienced respondents had suffered a significant injury like a
fracture in the previous year. The chance that any one of them would
eventually suffer this sort of cycling-related injury, then, is not
small. It is large. To avoid significant injury through an entire life
of cycling, a high mileage cyclist would have to achieve a far, far
better accident rate than that posted by the respondents to these two
surveys.
> It's not that bad out there, folks.
Not bad enough to quit cycling if you enjoy it, certainly.
Robert
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Date: 24 Sep 2007 15:35:19
From: Greens
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
<r15757@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1190582423.416809.165170@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 21, 9:03 pm, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Yes, we've discussed this quite a bit. Kifer's survey design, of
>> course, suffered from self-selection of subjects. People who had
>> recently fallen off their bikes would be much more likely to
>> participate in a survey that focused largely on crashes.
>
> That's why Kifer presented his survey in a way he hoped would minimize
> that self-selecting effect:
>
> "This survey was a mixture of two kinds of questions: general
> questions about cyclists and safety questions. I was very hesitant
> about emphasizing the safety element in this survey as I did not want
> it to be perceived as an accident survey, thus getting much more
> attention from those who have busted their heads than from those who
> have not. Since I wanted the test to have a low profile, I did not
> advertise the test in newgroups or in mailing lists. This resulted in
> a lower number taking the survey than I would have preferred, but I
> feel more comfortable with the results."
>
>> But still, apart from simple falls, the accident rate he found was,
>> indeed, similar to that of Moritz. It was very low. Also, the
>> definition of "more significant injury" was very much open to
>> interpretation, and Ken noted the inconsistencies regarding that point
>> in the responses.
>
> I don't find that accident rate 'very low.' I think it is basically
> wishful thinking on your part to say that. Kifer didn't find it very
> low, either.
>
> He (and Moritz) found that roughly 1-in-10 of relatively highly
> experienced respondents had suffered a significant injury like a
> fracture in the previous year. The chance that any one of them would
> eventually suffer this sort of cycling-related injury, then, is not
> small. It is large. To avoid significant injury through an entire life
> of cycling, a high mileage cyclist would have to achieve a far, far
> better accident rate than that posted by the respondents to these two
> surveys.
>
>> It's not that bad out there, folks.
>
> Not bad enough to quit cycling if you enjoy it, certainly.
>
> Robert
>
I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks cycling is more dangerous than a
Sunday drive.
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Date: 22 Sep 2007 06:28:37
From:
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
On Sep 22, 2:28 am, "Greens" <p...@adelphia.net > wrote:
>
>
> Why can't you just enjoy a sensational, on-topic news story like everyone
> else does?
First, because I think such "enjoyment" is mindless.
But more importantly, because I think the fearmongering in which you
engage is bad for bicycling and bad for society.
We have a generation of fat kids who have never gotten out of range of
Mom's apron strings, unless they're at some hyper-organized event.
People think kids need protection from the horrors of freedom and
exploration.
We have a couple generations of obese adults who would be afraid to
walk to the corner store - if there were a store on the corner. But
there isn't, because people jump into their "safe" cars and drive
miles to buy whatever they need.
All this leads to a less healthy society, both physically and
psychologically. And it does decrease safety and convenience for
those of us who choose to walk or ride.
I'd like to stop the trend before walking and cycling actually do get
dangerous.
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 21 Sep 2007 20:16:39
From:
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
On Sep 21, 2:00 pm, "Greens" <p...@adelphia.net > wrote:
> "Garry Lee" <gol...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1190234702.489860.52930@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>
> >3 and a half weeks ago I and a friend were knocked off our bikes by a
> > terrible driver who from a parked position performed a violent U-turn
> > as we passed her car, on a continuous white line, 15 m from a bend.
> > Insurance admits liability and she'll be prosecuted.
> > I was riding MTB and my handlebar with my braking left hand went
> > through windscreen and glass severed the extensor tendon on my left
> > index (which has been repaired) and smashed my third and ring fingers.
> > It'll be a long while before I cycle again.
> > it struck me that our hands are not protected by current designs, from
> > this type of injury.
> > Anyone see a design which protects against this?
> > If so I'll use it when I'm eventually able to cycle.
>
> Speaking of rude motorists...http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070907/NEWS...
>
> A motorist drove up on the sidewalk and chased 51 year old cyclist Howard
> Campbell, running him down. He's in the hospital now in critical condition
> and it's not the first time. He got hit by another car not too long ago, but
> with much less serious injuries. He rides, or maybe I should say rode, his
> bike because of a drunk driving problem.
And I was told today about a head-on collision only a quarter mile
from my house. Apparently it was yet another one caused by someone
losing patience when trying to pull out of the post office. We had
one of those just a few months ago, too, the same month the other guy
ran off the road and hit the tree. We heard the sirens today as the
ambulances arrived yet again.
Oh - sorry, that was just another motorist injury. Those are too
common to talk about, so we're supposed to ignore them. Nothing to
see here, move along, move along...
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 22 Sep 2007 02:28:06
From: Greens
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
<frkrygow@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1190430999.067824.219120@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 21, 2:00 pm, "Greens" <p...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>> "Garry Lee" <gol...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1190234702.489860.52930@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >3 and a half weeks ago I and a friend were knocked off our bikes by a
>> > terrible driver who from a parked position performed a violent U-turn
>> > as we passed her car, on a continuous white line, 15 m from a bend.
>> > Insurance admits liability and she'll be prosecuted.
>> > I was riding MTB and my handlebar with my braking left hand went
>> > through windscreen and glass severed the extensor tendon on my left
>> > index (which has been repaired) and smashed my third and ring fingers.
>> > It'll be a long while before I cycle again.
>> > it struck me that our hands are not protected by current designs, from
>> > this type of injury.
>> > Anyone see a design which protects against this?
>> > If so I'll use it when I'm eventually able to cycle.
>>
>> Speaking of rude
>> motorists...http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070907/NEWS...
>>
>> A motorist drove up on the sidewalk and chased 51 year old cyclist Howard
>> Campbell, running him down. He's in the hospital now in critical
>> condition
>> and it's not the first time. He got hit by another car not too long ago,
>> but
>> with much less serious injuries. He rides, or maybe I should say rode,
>> his
>> bike because of a drunk driving problem.
>
> And I was told today about a head-on collision only a quarter mile
> from my house. Apparently it was yet another one caused by someone
> losing patience when trying to pull out of the post office. We had
> one of those just a few months ago, too, the same month the other guy
> ran off the road and hit the tree. We heard the sirens today as the
> ambulances arrived yet again.
>
> Oh - sorry, that was just another motorist injury. Those are too
> common to talk about, so we're supposed to ignore them. Nothing to
> see here, move along, move along...
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>
Why can't you just enjoy a sensational, on-topic news story like everyone
else does?
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Date: 21 Sep 2007 20:03:31
From:
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
On Sep 21, 3:32 pm, r15...@aol.com wrote:
> On Sep 20, 8:35 am, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I hear you. There often seems to be a skew between published statistics
> > and our direct experience. I argued this stuff a long time ago with Ken
> > Kifer, only to have him ironically and tragically killed by a drunk
> > driver. While I have never had a bicycle accident myself (in many
> > 10,000's of miles), I know many who have, and several have been
> > seriously injured. No one I've personally known has died, but several
> > "friends of friends".
>
> Kifer did a small survey on his site and found that among the
> respondents (who were relatively experienced compared to the cycling
> population as a whole and rode about 2000 miles per year on average)
> roughly 1-in-3 had suffered some sort of crash in the previous year
> and roughly 1-in-10 had sustained a more significant injury like a
> fracture in the previous year. The accident/injury rate for
> experienced cyclists in Kifer's survey is quite close to that found in
> the much larger survey of LAB member by Moritz. Kifer noted that he
> was surprised by his results. He thought that cycling by experienced
> riders would be safer than it turned out to be.
Yes, we've discussed this quite a bit. Kifer's survey design, of
course, suffered from self-selection of subjects. People who had
recently fallen off their bikes would be much more likely to
participate in a survey that focused largely on crashes.
But still, apart from simple falls, the accident rate he found was,
indeed, similar to that of Moritz. It was very low. Also, the
definition of "more significant injury" was very much open to
interpretation, and Ken noted the inconsistencies regarding that point
in the responses.
Moritz's survey was of a much better design (and of course, much more
expensive to conduct). As mentioned often before, even though it
defined a "serious" accident using a too-low threshold (e.g. $50
equipment damage - equivalent to a bent derailleur) it still found
only one "serious" accident for every 11 years of riding. Average
"serious" medical cost was a bit over $100.
It's not that bad out there, folks.
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 21 Sep 2007 12:32:00
From:
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
On Sep 20, 8:35 am, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net > wrote:
>
> I hear you. There often seems to be a skew between published statistics
> and our direct experience. I argued this stuff a long time ago with Ken
> Kifer, only to have him ironically and tragically killed by a drunk
> driver. While I have never had a bicycle accident myself (in many
> 10,000's of miles), I know many who have, and several have been
> seriously injured. No one I've personally known has died, but several
> "friends of friends".
Kifer did a small survey on his site and found that among the
respondents (who were relatively experienced compared to the cycling
population as a whole and rode about 2000 miles per year on average)
roughly 1-in-3 had suffered some sort of crash in the previous year
and roughly 1-in-10 had sustained a more significant injury like a
fracture in the previous year. The accident/injury rate for
experienced cyclists in Kifer's survey is quite close to that found in
the much larger survey of LAB member by Moritz. Kifer noted that he
was surprised by his results. He thought that cycling by experienced
riders would be safer than it turned out to be.
Robert
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Date: 21 Sep 2007 14:00:49
From: Greens
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
"Garry Lee" <golaoi@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1190234702.489860.52930@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>3 and a half weeks ago I and a friend were knocked off our bikes by a
> terrible driver who from a parked position performed a violent U-turn
> as we passed her car, on a continuous white line, 15 m from a bend.
> Insurance admits liability and she'll be prosecuted.
> I was riding MTB and my handlebar with my braking left hand went
> through windscreen and glass severed the extensor tendon on my left
> index (which has been repaired) and smashed my third and ring fingers.
> It'll be a long while before I cycle again.
> it struck me that our hands are not protected by current designs, from
> this type of injury.
> Anyone see a design which protects against this?
> If so I'll use it when I'm eventually able to cycle.
>
Speaking of rude motorists...
http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070907/NEWS01/709070405/1001/NEWS
A motorist drove up on the sidewalk and chased 51 year old cyclist Howard
Campbell, running him down. He's in the hospital now in critical condition
and it's not the first time. He got hit by another car not too long ago, but
with much less serious injuries. He rides, or maybe I should say rode, his
bike because of a drunk driving problem.
The Militant Cyclist is an artist. He keeps track of stats. Among them is a
count of "near death experiences". They seem to occur almost daily, but by
his own admission he's somewhat of a cycling asshole.
http://militantcyclist.wordpress.com/2007/08/
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Date: 21 Sep 2007 16:40:36
From: Greens
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
"Greens" <prbj@adelphia.net > wrote in message
news:FuGdnY7_94qUm2nbnZ2dnUVZ_jCdnZ2d@adelphia.com...
>
> "Garry Lee" <golaoi@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1190234702.489860.52930@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>>3 and a half weeks ago I and a friend were knocked off our bikes by a
>> terrible driver who from a parked position performed a violent U-turn
>> as we passed her car, on a continuous white line, 15 m from a bend.
>> Insurance admits liability and she'll be prosecuted.
>> I was riding MTB and my handlebar with my braking left hand went
>> through windscreen and glass severed the extensor tendon on my left
>> index (which has been repaired) and smashed my third and ring fingers.
>> It'll be a long while before I cycle again.
>> it struck me that our hands are not protected by current designs, from
>> this type of injury.
>> Anyone see a design which protects against this?
>> If so I'll use it when I'm eventually able to cycle.
>>
>
> Speaking of rude motorists...
> http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070907/NEWS01/709070405/1001/NEWS
>
> A motorist drove up on the sidewalk and chased 51 year old cyclist Howard
> Campbell, running him down. He's in the hospital now in critical condition
> and it's not the first time. He got hit by another car not too long ago,
> but with much less serious injuries. He rides, or maybe I should say rode,
> his bike because of a drunk driving problem.
>
> The Militant Cyclist is an artist. He keeps track of stats. Among them is
> a count of "near death experiences". They seem to occur almost daily, but
> by his own admission he's somewhat of a cycling asshole.
> http://militantcyclist.wordpress.com/2007/08/
>
A big picture of the driver here.
http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070906/NEWS/70906013/1001/LIFE
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Date: 20 Sep 2007 23:57:00
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
On Sep 21, 5:16 am, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sep 20, 1:39 pm, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
>
> <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I wonder how these statisics that cite per hour or per kilometer go
> > about estimating the number of hours or distance. I'll bet if anything
> > the numbers are underestimated. They might be able to get a reasonable
> > estmate for commuters and casual riders, but there are lots of people
> > out there riding huge distances that I'll bet are undercounted.
>
> I read about the method used by Britain's transportation agency. They
> estimated miles bicycled by a three-way technique. Two of the methods
> were transportation surveys of a large number of households, and
> counts of cyclists on the road performed by trained observers.
> (Sorry, I don't recall technique #3 at the moment.)
>
> I agree that mega-milers probably don't get counted. OTOH, I don't
> think there are enough of them to move the numbers very much - even
> though their contribution would be to make cycling look even safer
> than the current numbers do.
That the mega-milers make cycling look even safer is just my point. I
think they also may have a greater affect than you suppose, even if
their number is small. I wouldn't be surprised if one mega-miler put
in more miles than 100 of the average casual commuters and others
counted by these surveys. Miss a few of the mega-milers and suddenly
it starts making a difference. A billion here, a billion there, and
pretty soon you're talking real money.
Joseph
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Date: 21 Sep 2007 08:18:38
From: M-gineering
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
Garry Lee wrote:
> it struck me that our hands are not protected by current designs, from
> this type of injury.
> Anyone see a design which protects against this?
> If so I'll use it when I'm eventually able to cycle.
Largish L-shaped barend?
Or in winter: pogies
--
/Marten
info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
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Date: 20 Sep 2007 22:47:31
From: Garry Lee
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
On Sep 21, 3:40 am, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sep 19, 4:45 pm, Garry Lee <gol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > 3 and a half weeks ago I and a friend were knocked off our bikes by a
> > terrible driver who from a parked position performed a violent U-turn
> > as we passed her car, on a continuous white line, 15 m from a bend.
> > Insurance admits liability and she'll be prosecuted.
> > I was riding MTB and my handlebar with my braking left hand went
> > through windscreen and glass severed the extensor tendon on my left
> > index (which has been repaired) and smashed my third and ring fingers.
> > It'll be a long while before I cycle again.
> > it struck me that our hands are not protected by current designs, from
> > this type of injury.
> > Anyone see a design which protects against this?
> > If so I'll use it when I'm eventually able to cycle.
>
> Sorry about your injury.
>
> But really, do you expect that injury to recur? Despite the mocking
> from "Greens," serious cycling injuries of any type are quite rare.
> The specific injury you suffered is, of course, even more rare.
> Effort to prevent a re-occurrence of that specific injury is almost
> certainly wasted. Which is probably why nobody has ever (AFAIK) made
> a commercial product to protect against it.
>
> What you're feeling is normal, of course. If a person gets sick from
> mushroom soup, they may never eat mushroom soup for the rest of their
> lives. Does that mean that mushroom soup is really a health problem?
> No, not at all. One bad experience doesn't indicate a problem worth
> excessive worry.
>
> The advice given to people who fall off a horse is: Get up on the
> horse and ride. You'll get over the fear.
>
> That advice applies to you, too. But watch for squirrelly motorists.
>
> - Frank Krygowski
Frank I will get up on the bike as long as my hand isn't crippled, of
which there's a small but significant chance. I'm attending physio
every day at the moment. Not fun!! Very not fun, to coin a phrase!!
It's not at all that I think that there must be a protection against
what befell me, but just curiosity about whether there's something
that makes such an occurrence less likely.
My own injury history (I'm 57 and have been cycling since I was 7,
always commute on my bike and have been on 50+ bike tours, and cycle
at weekends all year round and have done so for 25 years, is not
extensive.
1. I've avoided being killed by cars by riding off the road on 2
occasions. Unscathed but terrified.
2. I've had numerous falls with scrapes etc down the years.
3. Fracured ribs once.
This is the one time I've actually been knocked off my bike by a car.
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| | |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 23:09:14
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
Garry Lee wrote:
> On Sep 21, 3:40 am, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Sep 19, 4:45 pm, Garry Lee <gol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> 3 and a half weeks ago I and a friend were knocked off our bikes by
>>> a terrible driver who from a parked position performed a violent
>>> U-turn as we passed her car, on a continuous white line, 15 m from
>>> a bend. Insurance admits liability and she'll be prosecuted.
>>> I was riding MTB and my handlebar with my braking left hand went
>>> through windscreen and glass severed the extensor tendon on my left
>>> index (which has been repaired) and smashed my third and ring
>>> fingers. It'll be a long while before I cycle again.
>>> it struck me that our hands are not protected by current designs,
>>> from this type of injury.
>>> Anyone see a design which protects against this?
>>> If so I'll use it when I'm eventually able to cycle.
>>
>> Sorry about your injury.
>>
>> But really, do you expect that injury to recur? Despite the mocking
>> from "Greens," serious cycling injuries of any type are quite rare.
>> The specific injury you suffered is, of course, even more rare.
>> Effort to prevent a re-occurrence of that specific injury is almost
>> certainly wasted. Which is probably why nobody has ever (AFAIK) made
>> a commercial product to protect against it.
>>
>> What you're feeling is normal, of course. If a person gets sick from
>> mushroom soup, they may never eat mushroom soup for the rest of their
>> lives. Does that mean that mushroom soup is really a health problem?
>> No, not at all. One bad experience doesn't indicate a problem worth
>> excessive worry.
>>
>> The advice given to people who fall off a horse is: Get up on the
>> horse and ride. You'll get over the fear.
>>
>> That advice applies to you, too. But watch for squirrelly motorists.
>>
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> Frank I will get up on the bike as long as my hand isn't crippled, of
> which there's a small but significant chance. I'm attending physio
> every day at the moment. Not fun!! Very not fun, to coin a phrase!!
>
> It's not at all that I think that there must be a protection against
> what befell me, but just curiosity about whether there's something
> that makes such an occurrence less likely.
>
> My own injury history (I'm 57 and have been cycling since I was 7,
> always commute on my bike and have been on 50+ bike tours, and cycle
> at weekends all year round and have done so for 25 years, is not
> extensive.
>
> 1. I've avoided being killed by cars by riding off the road on 2
> occasions. Unscathed but terrified.
> 2. I've had numerous falls with scrapes etc down the years.
> 3. Fracured ribs once.
>
> This is the one time I've actually been knocked off my bike by a car.
Personal experience and consequent common sense are of /no/ consequence to
Frank. He's so (self-)involved with his stats and agendas that he couldn't
resist shaming you instead of offering advice or -- better yet -- just
shutting up.
Best of luck with your hand's recovery (most important) and future riding
(nearly as much). You might consider some mountain biking gloves (the faux
"armored" type) to protect the mits for a while as you regain
feeling/strength/confidence etc.
Bill S.
|
| |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 20:16:55
From:
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
On Sep 20, 1:39 pm, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> I wonder how these statisics that cite per hour or per kilometer go
> about estimating the number of hours or distance. I'll bet if anything
> the numbers are underestimated. They might be able to get a reasonable
> estmate for commuters and casual riders, but there are lots of people
> out there riding huge distances that I'll bet are undercounted.
I read about the method used by Britain's transportation agency. They
estimated miles bicycled by a three-way technique. Two of the methods
were transportation surveys of a large number of households, and
counts of cyclists on the road performed by trained observers.
(Sorry, I don't recall technique #3 at the moment.)
I agree that mega-milers probably don't get counted. OTOH, I don't
think there are enough of them to move the numbers very much - even
though their contribution would be to make cycling look even safer
than the current numbers do.
- Frank Krygowski
|
| |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 20:11:01
From:
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
On Sep 20, 12:28 pm, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net > wrote:
>
> With respect to numbers, if you're trying to estimate rates (fatalities
> or serious injuries per hour or mile) it seems like there is a potential
> to undercount events and overestimate durations. In addition, there may
> be large rate differences in categories other than those commonly
> tracked (age, time of day, etc.).
This is certainly a difficulty. However, professionals in the field
in many countries have attacked it by various techniques, and come up
with what they believe to be numbers they're willing to publish - i.e.
stake their reputations on. And while the answers differ, they are
roughly equivalent . They're certainly closer than an order of
magnitude. That's evidence that they're not wildly in error, I think.
Keep in mind, it matter little if there's one fatality every 13
million miles, or one fatality every 20 million miles. That's a
comparison of infinitesmals.
And if you're worried about them missing "events" like skinned knees,
there's good reason to ignore them. Such minor injuries are a problem
only for the most phobic individuals. If you worry excessively about
them, you end up mandating knee pads for skipping rope. (Sadly,
something our society seems to be headed for.)
>
> Forester's (1994) numbers predict that a club cyclist will have an
> accident every 8,000 miles or so.
IIRC, Forester was quoting other researchers, and not very
specifically. I don't recall his definition of "accident," but
Kaplan, J. "Characteristics of the Regular Adult Bicycle User,"
Federal Highway Administration Bulletin PB-258 399, 1976 claimed an
"accident" every 8,500 miles for club cyclists.
OTOH, Moritz, W. "Adult Bicyclists in the United States -
Characteristics and Riding Experience in 1996" found accidents that
did $50 of equipment damage (not much!) or required medical treatment
(average only about $100 cost) occurred only once in 32,000 miles, or
once in 11 years.
> Given that many club cyclists around
> here put in 4,000 or so a year, that means an accident every 2 years.
It probably means falling off a bike every two years. For my club,
even that would be an exaggeration. And IIRC, Forester explains that
accident rates decrease as annual mileage increases - which is no
surprise.
> Based on what I've seen, that's about right. Unfortunately, few of these
> accidents seem to involve less than a broken collarbone, and some have
> been much more serious.
Wait: You're saying that nearly every two years, each member of your
club has an injury as serious as a broken collarbone? Don't you want
to re-think that?
> Even a student commuting 4 miles a day could be
> expected to have an accident every couple of years. Given the lower
> speeds, perhaps not as likely to be serious, but still, compared to
> riding a bus?
Hmm. You know, if students commuting four miles per day had enough
serious injuries to worry about, I'm sure the word would get out and
they _would_ take the bus. I haven't noticed that happening.
Really, riding a bus is one of the safest things a person can do.
Almost everything is safe compared to riding the bus. To me, that's a
bad argument for giving up all other activities and spending one's
life on the bus!
>
> The high mileage cyclists I know put in the range of 10,000 mi/yr. They
> could be expected to have an accident every year or more.
So - do they? How bad are those accidents?
The last bike injury in my family was a skinned knee in 2003 during a
coast-to-coast trip. That was also the last injury I heard about
among members of my bike club. As safety chairman, I imagine I'd hear
if there were more serious injuries.
- Frank Krygowski
|
| |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 19:40:07
From:
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
On Sep 19, 4:45 pm, Garry Lee <gol...@gmail.com > wrote:
> 3 and a half weeks ago I and a friend were knocked off our bikes by a
> terrible driver who from a parked position performed a violent U-turn
> as we passed her car, on a continuous white line, 15 m from a bend.
> Insurance admits liability and she'll be prosecuted.
> I was riding MTB and my handlebar with my braking left hand went
> through windscreen and glass severed the extensor tendon on my left
> index (which has been repaired) and smashed my third and ring fingers.
> It'll be a long while before I cycle again.
> it struck me that our hands are not protected by current designs, from
> this type of injury.
> Anyone see a design which protects against this?
> If so I'll use it when I'm eventually able to cycle.
Sorry about your injury.
But really, do you expect that injury to recur? Despite the mocking
from "Greens," serious cycling injuries of any type are quite rare.
The specific injury you suffered is, of course, even more rare.
Effort to prevent a re-occurrence of that specific injury is almost
certainly wasted. Which is probably why nobody has ever (AFAIK) made
a commercial product to protect against it.
What you're feeling is normal, of course. If a person gets sick from
mushroom soup, they may never eat mushroom soup for the rest of their
lives. Does that mean that mushroom soup is really a health problem?
No, not at all. One bad experience doesn't indicate a problem worth
excessive worry.
The advice given to people who fall off a horse is: Get up on the
horse and ride. You'll get over the fear.
That advice applies to you, too. But watch for squirrelly motorists.
- Frank Krygowski
|
| | |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 21:11:10
From:
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:40:07 -0700, frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
[snip]
>What you're feeling is normal, of course. If a person gets sick from
>mushroom soup, they may never eat mushroom soup for the rest of their
>lives. Does that mean that mushroom soup is really a health problem?
>No, not at all. One bad experience doesn't indicate a problem worth
>excessive worry.
[snip]
>That advice applies to you, too. But watch for squirrelly motorists.
>
>- Frank Krygowski
Dear Frank,
First the toaster apologists, now the mushroom soup nazis!
Defending the indefensible is one thing. Defending the inedible leads
to eating toad stools!
Your fanaticism has even led you to a Freudian slip--your final
sentence should been: "But watch out for squirrels."
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
|
| |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 10:39:19
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
On Sep 20, 6:28 pm, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net > wrote:
> Greens wrote:
> > "Peter Cole" <peter_c...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >> Perhaps these are statistical flukes or perceptual skews, I don't know,
> >> but it gives me pause. I've often wondered just how accurate the
> >> statistics are. In the little digging I've done I didn't get much
> >> confidence.
>
> > I think the numbers are often accurate. It's their interpretation that is
> > flawed.
>
> With respect to numbers, if you're trying to estimate rates (fatalities
> or serious injuries per hour or mile) it seems like there is a potential
> to undercount events and overestimate durations. In addition, there may
> be large rate differences in categories other than those commonly
> tracked (age, time of day, etc.).
>
> Forester's (1994) numbers predict that a club cyclist will have an
> accident every 8,000 miles or so. Given that many club cyclists around
> here put in 4,000 or so a year, that means an accident every 2 years.
> Based on what I've seen, that's about right. Unfortunately, few of these
> accidents seem to involve less than a broken collarbone, and some have
> been much more serious. Even a student commuting 4 miles a day could be
> expected to have an accident every couple of years. Given the lower
> speeds, perhaps not as likely to be serious, but still, compared to
> riding a bus?
>
> The high mileage cyclists I know put in the range of 10,000 mi/yr. They
> could be expected to have an accident every year or more. An accident
> involving a motor vehicle every 7 years or so. Safe?
Here comes some thoroughly unscientific anecdotal data. These are just
supposed to be thought provokers, not hard evidence of any sort.
In the last 3 years since I got back into riding, there are about 20
riders that I ride with more or less regularly, who's health I have
been privy to, at least in terms of cycling related injuries. As a
group I think a conservative estimate is 300,000km have been cycled in
that time. As far as I can recall there has been only one broken
collarbone. There have been a few crashes with minor injuries, but all
have come during races so they don't really count. One buddy was
severly injured (very nearly killed) when he was struck by a car. That
suggests you get hit by a car once every 60 years if you ride a lot.
In my big yearly event (540km Trondheim-Oslo) the road is not closed
and it is on the main north-south route in Norway with lots of car and
truck traffic. Over the last 40 years of the event a cumulative total
of over 40,000,000 km have been ridden and there has been one
fatality, which came after 38 years. That suggests one could ride
20mph for 8 hours every day for over 450 years before you get killed.
I'm not saying that is an accurate picture of the way the world really
is, but it is an aspect I think is not taken fully into account.
I wonder how these statisics that cite per hour or per kilometer go
about estimating the number of hours or distance. I'll bet if anything
the numbers are underestimated. They might be able to get a reasonable
estmate for commuters and casual riders, but there are lots of people
out there riding huge distances that I'll bet are undercounted.
Joseph
|
| |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 06:42:04
From: russellseaton1@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
On Sep 19, 6:55 pm, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com > wrote:
> russellseaton1 wrote:
>
> > Chalo wrote:
>
> > > Jambo wrote:
>
> > > > I think if you design protection from all conceivable injuries in a bike
> > > > crashing on to something, you might end up with a padded concrete shell
> > > > around your bike.
>
> > > More likely an energy-absorbing crushable steel shell with reactive
> > > airbags inside.
>
> > And then would you have to add a combustion engine to propel it?
>
> And cupholders.
>
> Chalo
Forgot about the cupholders.
http://www.somafab.com/morningrush.html
|
| |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 00:18:45
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
On Sep 19, 10:45 pm, Garry Lee <gol...@gmail.com > wrote:
> 3 and a half weeks ago I and a friend were knocked off our bikes by a
> terrible driver who from a parked position performed a violent U-turn
> as we passed her car, on a continuous white line, 15 m from a bend.
> Insurance admits liability and she'll be prosecuted.
> I was riding MTB and my handlebar with my braking left hand went
> through windscreen and glass severed the extensor tendon on my left
> index (which has been repaired) and smashed my third and ring fingers.
> It'll be a long while before I cycle again.
> it struck me that our hands are not protected by current designs, from
> this type of injury.
> Anyone see a design which protects against this?
> If so I'll use it when I'm eventually able to cycle.
Sorry about your injury. I hope you are right-handed!
I suppose you are interested in some way to protect the hand because
it is expected to be somewhat fragile once healed. Perhaps you could
use a motorcycle enduro type brush guard?
http://tinyurl.com/yrvmdx then scroll down a bit to see some various
hand guards. The downside to hand guards is you can get caught up in
them in certain situations.
Hope you heal fast!
Joseph
|
| | |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 21:56:44
From:
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 00:18:45 -0700, "joseph.santaniello@gmail.com"
<joseph.santaniello@gmail.com > wrote:
>On Sep 19, 10:45 pm, Garry Lee <gol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 3 and a half weeks ago I and a friend were knocked off our bikes by a
>> terrible driver who from a parked position performed a violent U-turn
>> as we passed her car, on a continuous white line, 15 m from a bend.
>> Insurance admits liability and she'll be prosecuted.
>> I was riding MTB and my handlebar with my braking left hand went
>> through windscreen and glass severed the extensor tendon on my left
>> index (which has been repaired) and smashed my third and ring fingers.
>> It'll be a long while before I cycle again.
>> it struck me that our hands are not protected by current designs, from
>> this type of injury.
>> Anyone see a design which protects against this?
>> If so I'll use it when I'm eventually able to cycle.
>
>Sorry about your injury. I hope you are right-handed!
>
>I suppose you are interested in some way to protect the hand because
>it is expected to be somewhat fragile once healed. Perhaps you could
>use a motorcycle enduro type brush guard?
>
>http://tinyurl.com/yrvmdx then scroll down a bit to see some various
>hand guards. The downside to hand guards is you can get caught up in
>them in certain situations.
>
>Hope you heal fast!
>
>Joseph
>
Cruiser handlebars, or roadster handlebars - also known as North Road
bars give a lot more protection to the hands than the "bullmoose" or
Mountain bike bars.
I replace the straight bars on all the "mountain bikes" here with
"North Road" type bars - much easier on the arms and wrists.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| |
Date: 19 Sep 2007 22:29:57
From: Garry Lee
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
> You must have riden your bike 3.6 million miles in order to sustain an
> injury like that.
Well not that much but I've cycled a lot for 50 years
Stats show that cycling is safe and that you must ride at
> least twelve million miles before encountering an insane U turning female
> motorist of that type. I'll never understand why people like you insist on
> fear mongering.
I'm not fear mongering. I know it's an unusual injury for cycling, but
not an unusual injury.
"People like you" is a phrase you should avoid
AND if cycling is so safe, how come 6 people of my acquaintance, 1 a
next-door neighbour and another my main training partner 17 years ago
have been killed on bikes in my lifetime. That is also a statistical
freak I know
It's no good for cycling. - Flank Kerpowski, safety engineer
>
> Did this happen in Holland?
No.
Ireland, and not an SUV but a Toyota Corolla.
and as JB says, an ass.
|
| | |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 10:35:19
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
Garry Lee wrote:
> AND if cycling is so safe, how come 6 people of my acquaintance, 1 a
> next-door neighbour and another my main training partner 17 years ago
> have been killed on bikes in my lifetime. That is also a statistical
> freak I know
I hear you. There often seems to be a skew between published statistics
and our direct experience. I argued this stuff a long time ago with Ken
Kifer, only to have him ironically and tragically killed by a drunk
driver. While I have never had a bicycle accident myself (in many
10,000's of miles), I know many who have, and several have been
seriously injured. No one I've personally known has died, but several
"friends of friends".
Perhaps these are statistical flukes or perceptual skews, I don't know,
but it gives me pause. I've often wondered just how accurate the
statistics are. In the little digging I've done I didn't get much
confidence.
|
| | | |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 17:51:11
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
> Garry Lee wrote:
>> AND if cycling is so safe, how come 6 people of my acquaintance, 1 a
>> next-door neighbour and another my main training partner 17 years ago
>> have been killed on bikes in my lifetime. That is also a statistical
>> freak I know
Peter Cole wrote:
> I hear you. There often seems to be a skew between published statistics
> and our direct experience. I argued this stuff a long time ago with Ken
> Kifer, only to have him ironically and tragically killed by a drunk
> driver. While I have never had a bicycle accident myself (in many
> 10,000's of miles), I know many who have, and several have been
> seriously injured. No one I've personally known has died, but several
> "friends of friends".
>
> Perhaps these are statistical flukes or perceptual skews, I don't know,
> but it gives me pause. I've often wondered just how accurate the
> statistics are. In the little digging I've done I didn't get much
> confidence.
I do not actually know the answer to that but among a few thousands of
cyclists of my acquaintance, over many years, some have died. Died of
heart attacks, cancer, suicide, ODs and car crashes (both with and
without bicycles) among other causes. One murder victim. I have no way
to evaluate these incidents against data.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 11:47:33
From: Greens
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
"Peter Cole" <peter_cole@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:vpGdna6vnNe1GG_bnZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Garry Lee wrote:
>
>> AND if cycling is so safe, how come 6 people of my acquaintance, 1 a
>> next-door neighbour and another my main training partner 17 years ago
>> have been killed on bikes in my lifetime. That is also a statistical
>> freak I know
>
> I hear you. There often seems to be a skew between published statistics
> and our direct experience. I argued this stuff a long time ago with Ken
> Kifer, only to have him ironically and tragically killed by a drunk
> driver. While I have never had a bicycle accident myself (in many 10,000's
> of miles), I know many who have, and several have been seriously injured.
> No one I've personally known has died, but several "friends of friends".
>
> Perhaps these are statistical flukes or perceptual skews, I don't know,
> but it gives me pause. I've often wondered just how accurate the
> statistics are. In the little digging I've done I didn't get much
> confidence.
I think the numbers are often accurate. It's their interpretation that is
flawed.
|
| | | | |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 12:28:17
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
Greens wrote:
> "Peter Cole" <peter_cole@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> Perhaps these are statistical flukes or perceptual skews, I don't know,
>> but it gives me pause. I've often wondered just how accurate the
>> statistics are. In the little digging I've done I didn't get much
>> confidence.
>
> I think the numbers are often accurate. It's their interpretation that is
> flawed.
With respect to numbers, if you're trying to estimate rates (fatalities
or serious injuries per hour or mile) it seems like there is a potential
to undercount events and overestimate durations. In addition, there may
be large rate differences in categories other than those commonly
tracked (age, time of day, etc.).
Forester's (1994) numbers predict that a club cyclist will have an
accident every 8,000 miles or so. Given that many club cyclists around
here put in 4,000 or so a year, that means an accident every 2 years.
Based on what I've seen, that's about right. Unfortunately, few of these
accidents seem to involve less than a broken collarbone, and some have
been much more serious. Even a student commuting 4 miles a day could be
expected to have an accident every couple of years. Given the lower
speeds, perhaps not as likely to be serious, but still, compared to
riding a bus?
The high mileage cyclists I know put in the range of 10,000 mi/yr. They
could be expected to have an accident every year or more. An accident
involving a motor vehicle every 7 years or so. Safe?
|
| | |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 03:45:07
From: Greens
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
"Garry Lee" <golaoi@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1190266197.379481.173940@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>> You must have riden your bike 3.6 million miles in order to sustain an
>> injury like that.
> Well not that much but I've cycled a lot for 50 years
>
>
> Stats show that cycling is safe and that you must ride at
>> least twelve million miles before encountering an insane U turning female
>> motorist of that type. I'll never understand why people like you insist
>> on
>> fear mongering.
> I'm not fear mongering. I know it's an unusual injury for cycling, but
> not an unusual injury.
>
> "People like you" is a phrase you should avoid
>
> AND if cycling is so safe, how come 6 people of my acquaintance, 1 a
> next-door neighbour and another my main training partner 17 years ago
> have been killed on bikes in my lifetime. That is also a statistical
> freak I know
>
>
>
> It's no good for cycling. - Flank Kerpowski, safety engineer
>>
>> Did this happen in Holland?
>
> No.
> Ireland, and not an SUV but a Toyota Corolla.
>
> and as JB says, an ass.
>
>
It was an inside joke. I was making fun of Frank.
I broke my wrist and hurt my hand about 4 years ago when I fell while
rollerblading. I was wearing one of their wrist guards and I thought it
offered very little protection, certainly no shock absorption. My fingers
didn't work right for months. I had some ideas for hand and wrist protection
while roller blading, but they wouldn't work for cycling without
modification. Basically, I wanted to put the hands into a crushable plastic
cage. Bungee cords could be strung through the center. When you impact
(while rollerblading) you'd be holding onto the internal bungees which would
absorb shock. The crushable plastic shell would also help absorb shock.
You'd also need the usual wrist brace. Hopefully all this would be prevent
broken wrists which number 17,000 in inline skating. It's the most common
injury since of course you try to protect your head by putting a hand out.
Same with you. Trouble is the hand is not designed to slow the mass of the
body at the speeds rollerbladers and cyclists go. Any engineer could tell
you that the forces involved increase dramatically with speed.
When cycling, you need your hands. Tough to protect them if they've got a
job to do. A flexible plastic strip could be attached at the wrist and it
could go over your hand and curl down to protect the fingers. That way you
could still operate your brakes. In a crash the plastic could impact the
windshield first and since it's pretty strong and stiff, it'll absorb a lot
of the shock of impact, but it might also just slide along and you'll hit
hard on a different part of your body. Lots of thought and testing needed.
See the surviveable bicycle thread for other ideas on how to make a bike
crash surviveable. Google groups search
|
| |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 00:19:19
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
On Sep 19, 1:45 pm, Garry Lee <gol...@gmail.com > wrote:
> 3 and a half weeks ago I and a friend were knocked off our bikes by a
> terrible driver who from a parked position performed a violent U-turn
> as we passed her car, on a continuous white line, 15 m from a bend.
> Insurance admits liability and she'll be prosecuted.
> I was riding MTB and my handlebar with my braking left hand went
> through windscreen and glass severed the extensor tendon on my left
> index (which has been repaired) and smashed my third and ring fingers.
> It'll be a long while before I cycle again.
> it struck me that our hands are not protected by current designs, from
> this type of injury.
> Anyone see a design which protects against this?
> If so I'll use it when I'm eventually able to cycle.
Scott AT-3 or AT-4 handlebars or similar:
http://www.bikepro.com/products/handlebars/scott_combo.shtml
(No longer made, but you've seen them around
on a dayglo MTB.)
Not guaranteed to protect you against every shard of
broken glass or all bone fractures. You might try
combining them with these:
http://www.swordsandarmor.com/mall/gauntlets.htm
Ben
|
| |
Date: 19 Sep 2007 23:55:47
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
russellseaton1 wrote:
>
> Chalo wrote:
> >
> > Jambo wrote:
> > >
> > > I think if you design protection from all conceivable injuries in a bike
> > > crashing on to something, you might end up with a padded concrete shell
> > > around your bike.
> >
> > More likely an energy-absorbing crushable steel shell with reactive
> > airbags inside.
>
> And then would you have to add a combustion engine to propel it?
And cupholders.
Chalo
|
| | |
Date: 20 Sep 2007 05:47:10
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
In article <1190246147.743031.246690@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com >,
Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com > wrote:
> russellseaton1 wrote:
> >
> > Chalo wrote:
> > >
> > > Jambo wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I think if you design protection from all conceivable injuries in a bike
> > > > crashing on to something, you might end up with a padded concrete shell
> > > > around your bike.
> > >
> > > More likely an energy-absorbing crushable steel shell with reactive
> > > airbags inside.
> >
> > And then would you have to add a combustion engine to propel it?
>
> And cupholders.
>
> Chalo
I'm liking the sound of this "motor" vehicle. Someone here should make
some of these; I bet they would sell like gangbusters.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| |
Date: 19 Sep 2007 19:16:01
From: Bellsouth Ijit 2.0 - Global Warming Edition ®
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
"Garry Lee" <golaoi@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1190234702.489860.52930@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>3 and a half weeks ago I and a friend were knocked off our bikes by a
> terrible driver who from a parked position performed a violent U-turn
> as we passed her car, on a continuous white line, 15 m from a bend.
> Insurance admits liability and she'll be prosecuted.
> I was riding MTB and my handlebar with my braking left hand went
> through windscreen and glass severed the extensor tendon on my left
> index (which has been repaired) and smashed my third and ring fingers.
> It'll be a long while before I cycle again.
> it struck me that our hands are not protected by current designs, from
> this type of injury.
> Anyone see a design which protects against this?
> If so I'll use it when I'm eventually able to cycle.
>
Was it a SUV?
|
| | |
Date: 19 Sep 2007 23:48:22
From:
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
anonymous writes:
>> 3 and a half weeks ago I and a friend were knocked off our bikes by
>> a terrible driver who from a parked position performed a violent
>> U-turn as we passed her car, on a continuous white line, 15 m from
>> a bend. Insurance admits liability and she'll be prosecuted. I
>> was riding MTB and my handlebar with my braking left hand went
>> through windscreen and glass severed the extensor tendon on my left
>> index (which has been repaired) and smashed my third and ring
>> fingers. It'll be a long while before I cycle again. it struck me
>> that our hands are not protected by current designs, from this type
>> of injury. Anyone see a design which protects against this? If so
>> I'll use it when I'm eventually able to cycle. >>
> Was it a SUV?
No, it was a ass!
Jobst Brandt
|
| |
Date: 19 Sep 2007 18:00:07
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
|
Garry Lee wrote:
> 3 and a half weeks ago I and a friend were knocked off our bikes by a
> terrible driver who from a parked position performed a violent U-turn
> as we passed her car, on a continuous white line, 15 m from a bend.
> Insurance admits liability and she'll be prosecuted.
> I was riding MTB and my handlebar with my braking left hand went
> through windscreen and glass severed the extensor tendon on my left
> index (which has been repaired) and smashed my third and ring fingers.
> It'll be a long while before I cycle again.
> it struck me that our hands are not protected by current designs, from
> this type of injury.
> Anyone see a design which protects against this?
> If so I'll use it when I'm eventually able to cycle.
Others have noted that:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/NOSISSY2.JPG
I've broken a car window with heavy leather mittens unscathed but
shattered my wrist with lighter woolen ones.
Mittens in summer may not be desirable.
Clavicles and teeth are other discussions.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 19 Sep 2007 14:29:05
From: russellseaton1@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
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On Sep 19, 4:12 pm, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Jambo wrote:
>
> > I think if you design protection from all conceivable injuries in a bike
> > crashing on to something, you might end up with a padded concrete shell
> > around your bike.
>
> More likely an energy-absorbing crushable steel shell with reactive
> airbags inside.
>
> Chalo
And then would you have to add a combustion engine to propel it?
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Date: 19 Sep 2007 21:12:01
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
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Jambo wrote:
>
> I think if you design protection from all conceivable injuries in a bike
> crashing on to something, you might end up with a padded concrete shell
> around your bike.
More likely an energy-absorbing crushable steel shell with reactive
airbags inside.
Chalo
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Date: 19 Sep 2007 17:05:00
From: Jambo
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
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"Garry Lee" <golaoi@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1190234702.489860.52930@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>3 and a half weeks ago I and a friend were knocked off our bikes by a
> terrible driver who from a parked position performed a violent U-turn
> as we passed her car, on a continuous white line, 15 m from a bend.
> Insurance admits liability and she'll be prosecuted.
> I was riding MTB and my handlebar with my braking left hand went
> through windscreen and glass severed the extensor tendon on my left
> index (which has been repaired) and smashed my third and ring fingers.
> It'll be a long while before I cycle again.
> it struck me that our hands are not protected by current designs, from
> this type of injury.
> Anyone see a design which protects against this?
> If so I'll use it when I'm eventually able to cycle.
Easy to design something to protect your hands, but this seems like an
unusual injury to sustain.
I think if you design protection from all conceivable injuries in a bike
crashing on to something, you might end up with a padded concrete shell
around your bike.
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Date: 19 Sep 2007 17:01:17
From: Greens
Subject: Re: Brake lever/handlebar design does not protect the hands.
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"Garry Lee" <golaoi@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1190234702.489860.52930@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>3 and a half weeks ago I and a friend were knocked off our bikes by a
> terrible driver who from a parked position performed a violent U-turn
> as we passed her car, on a continuous white line, 15 m from a bend.
> Insurance admits liability and she'll be prosecuted.
> I was riding MTB and my handlebar with my braking left hand went
> through windscreen and glass severed the extensor tendon on my left
> index (which has been repaired) and smashed my third and ring fingers.
> It'll be a long while before I cycle again.
> it struck me that our hands are not protected by current designs, from
> this type of injury.
> Anyone see a design which protects against this?
> If so I'll use it when I'm eventually able to cycle.
>
You must have riden your bike 3.6 million miles in order to sustain an
injury like that. Stats show that cycling is safe and that you must ride at
least twelve million miles before encountering an insane U turning female
motorist of that type. I'll never understand why people like you insist on
fear mongering. It's no good for cycling. - Flank Kerpowski, safety engineer
Did this happen in Holland?
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