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Main
Date: 26 Jun 2007 20:43:59
From:
Subject: Broken bike parts gallery
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In another thread, Bill Bushnell posted a link to a chain failure
picture. I followed the bread crumbs and found that he has a nicely
done gallery of busted bike stuff:
http://bushnell.homeip.net/~bill/bike/pictures/broken_bike_parts/index.html
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
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Date: 30 Jun 2007 18:35:39
From: Johnny Sunset
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
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On Jun 29, 2:35 pm, waxbytes? wrote:
> Johnny Sunset Wrote:
>
> > On Jun 28, 8:14 pm, Bill Bushnell aka Mr. Bill wrote:
> > > Johnny Sunset wrote:
> > > > Did you have the bodysock on when riding off-road?
>
> > > Yes. I always ride with the sock unless I'm taking a short test ride
> > because
> > > removing it changes the handling characteristics of the bike, namely
> > the apparent
> > > effect of fork flop.
>
> > I found [1] that a body sock improved not only the directional
> > stability at low-speed, but even improved the cross-wind handling
> > (despite the derisive comments of someone who had never ridden with
> > one).
>
> > [1] <http://www.ransbikes.com/Gallery/Archive/images/Sherman1.jpg>.
>
> But not every rider has the dexterity to fold their green wings forward
> to the handlebar fairing.
LOL
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 30 Jun 2007 18:32:59
From: Johnny Sunset
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
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On Jun 29, 2:25 pm, Bill Bushnell aka Mr. Bill wrote:
> G.T. aka Greg Thomas wrote:
> > Anyway, now that I see what a bodysock is I was just looking for an
> > explanation of what Bill said earlier: "I always ride with the sock
> > unless I'm taking a short test ride because removing it changes the
> > handling characteristics of the bike, namely the apparent effect of fork
> > flop." Is that because the bodysock tends to holds him down in the
> > saddle? I can't see from the design that it would have an apparent
> > effect on fork flop.
>
> The bodysock adds resistance to the steering, lessening the tendency of the bike
> to "fall" or "flop" or oversteer into turns without reducing the bike's ability to
> change direction quickly as when riding through quick ess bends. It's a slight
> effect, but I prefer it to the naked bike.
My experience is similar to Bill's on both borrowed Easy Racer's (same
bike model as Bill's) and on my RANS Wave to Tailwind conversion.
> The front fairing is attached to the handlebars/fork and turns as the handlebars
> turn. The bodysock is attached to the edge of the fairing and at the rear of the
> bike, so it acts like one big rubber band imparting a centering force to the
> handlebars. This is may not be obvious by looking at a photo.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 29 Jun 2007 23:26:20
From: Datri
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
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Bill Bushnell wrote:
>
> Before anyone gets all excited, I started this gallery on a lark so that I
> wouldn't have to store all of my old busted stuff.
I think it's cool-- you have your record and others can refer to
them. I wish I had done something like that when I was breaking
things all the time.
Chalo
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Date: 29 Jun 2007 18:35:21
From: Bill Bushnell
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
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carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> In another thread, Bill Bushnell posted a link to a chain failure
> picture. I followed the bread crumbs and found that he has a nicely
> done gallery of busted bike stuff:
> http://bushnell.homeip.net/~bill/bike/pictures/broken_bike_parts/index.html
Thanks, Carl.
Before anyone gets all excited, I started this gallery on a lark so that I
wouldn't have to store all of my old busted stuff. Some parts that I wore out and
discarded years ago I wish I had photographed, such as the tire off the rear wheel
of my commuting bike that had worn _through_ the cords around most of the
circumference, being held together in only a few places, and essentially booted by
a MrTuffy. (I didn't discover it until the tire started to feel lumpy.)
I add photos to the gallery regularly, but most of them are mundane.
--
Bill Bushnell
http://pobox.com/~bushnell/
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Date: 29 Jun 2007 04:12:37
From: Johnny Sunset
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
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On Jun 28, 11:15 pm, Greg Thomas wrote:
> "Johnny Sunset" wrote:
>
> > On Jun 28, 8:14 pm, Bill Bushnell aka Mr. Bill wrote:
> >> Johnny Sunset wrote:
> >> > Did you have the bodysock on when riding off-road?
>
> >> Yes. I always ride with the sock unless I'm taking a short test ride
> >> because
> >> removing it changes the handling characteristics of the bike, namely the
> >> apparent
> >> effect of fork flop.
>
> > I found [1] that a body sock improved not only the directional
> > stability at low-speed, but even improved the cross-wind handling
> > (despite the derisive comments of someone who had never ridden with
> > one).
>
> > [1] <http://www.ransbikes.com/Gallery/Archive/images/Sherman1.jpg>.
>
> Oh my geekness what the hell is that?
A picture of me on my bike at a Thursday night PCC ride 7 years ago.
Something Rich M. from C-U wants to forget?
The homemade (by a then poor student) version of these: <http://
www.bikeroute.com/FreeFormFashions/ >, <http://www.mueller-hp.com/
tgtbodysock.htm >.
For everyone's enjoyment, a tandem I once stoked on: <http://
www.zzipper.com/testimonials/Photos/HalAnn.jpg >.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 29 Jun 2007 10:45:46
From: G.T.
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
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Johnny Sunset wrote:
> On Jun 28, 11:15 pm, Greg Thomas wrote:
>> "Johnny Sunset" wrote:
>>
>>> On Jun 28, 8:14 pm, Bill Bushnell aka Mr. Bill wrote:
>>>> Johnny Sunset wrote:
>>>>> Did you have the bodysock on when riding off-road?
>>>> Yes. I always ride with the sock unless I'm taking a short test ride
>>>> because
>>>> removing it changes the handling characteristics of the bike, namely the
>>>> apparent
>>>> effect of fork flop.
>>> I found [1] that a body sock improved not only the directional
>>> stability at low-speed, but even improved the cross-wind handling
>>> (despite the derisive comments of someone who had never ridden with
>>> one).
>>> [1] <http://www.ransbikes.com/Gallery/Archive/images/Sherman1.jpg>.
>> Oh my geekness what the hell is that?
>
> A picture of me on my bike at a Thursday night PCC ride 7 years ago.
>
Ah, nice to see that you're a fair young man. I thought all 'bent
riders looked like this:
http://www.recumbents.com/WISIL/misc/velocar-street.jpg
Anyway, now that I see what a bodysock is I was just looking for an
explanation of what Bill said earlier: "I always ride with the sock
unless I'm taking a short test ride because removing it changes the
handling characteristics of the bike, namely the apparent effect of fork
flop." Is that because the bodysock tends to holds him down in the
saddle? I can't see from the design that it would have an apparent
effect on fork flop.
Greg
--
http://ticketmastersucks.org
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Date: 01 Jul 2007 10:14:45
From: Jasper Janssen
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
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On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:45:46 -0700, "G.T." <getnews1@dslextreme.com >
wrote:
>Anyway, now that I see what a bodysock is I was just looking for an
>explanation of what Bill said earlier: "I always ride with the sock
>unless I'm taking a short test ride because removing it changes the
>handling characteristics of the bike, namely the apparent effect of fork
>flop." Is that because the bodysock tends to holds him down in the
>saddle? I can't see from the design that it would have an apparent
>effect on fork flop.
If the windshield is attached to the fork, rather than the rest of the
bike, the sock will tend to center the fork.
Jasper
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Date: 29 Jun 2007 19:25:06
From: Bill Bushnell
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
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G.T. <getnews1@dslextreme.com > wrote:
> Anyway, now that I see what a bodysock is I was just looking for an
> explanation of what Bill said earlier: "I always ride with the sock
> unless I'm taking a short test ride because removing it changes the
> handling characteristics of the bike, namely the apparent effect of fork
> flop." Is that because the bodysock tends to holds him down in the
> saddle? I can't see from the design that it would have an apparent
> effect on fork flop.
The bodysock adds resistance to the steering, lessening the tendency of the bike
to "fall" or "flop" or oversteer into turns without reducing the bike's ability to
change direction quickly as when riding through quick ess bends. It's a slight
effect, but I prefer it to the naked bike.
The front fairing is attached to the handlebars/fork and turns as the handlebars
turn. The bodysock is attached to the edge of the fairing and at the rear of the
bike, so it acts like one big rubber band imparting a centering force to the
handlebars. This is may not be obvious by looking at a photo.
--
Bill Bushnell
http://pobox.com/~bushnell/
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Date: 29 Jun 2007 13:18:27
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
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G.T. wrote:
> I thought all 'bent riders looked like this:
> http://www.recumbents.com/WISIL/misc/velocar-street.jpg
Is that really Harpo Marx? Or just an idealized 'recumbent archetype'?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 29 Jun 2007 04:21:10
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
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Johnny Sunset wrote:
>
> 47-406 Tioga Comp Pool [1] steel beaded tires can
> be mounted and dismounted without levers in my experience.
>
> [1] Japanese made tan-wall - I have not tried the newer, reportedly
> lesser quality Philippine made black-wall version.
The blackwall Comp Pool may be inferior to the Japanese version, but
the one I have seems like a very nice tire to me.
The tires that I have found to be changed significantly for the worse
are the 20x1.9 and 20x2.1 Primo Comets. They used to have casings as
supple as skinwall roadie tires, but now they are much stiffer and
thicker in the sidewalls. Boo!
Chalo
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 20:50:00
From: Johnny Sunset
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
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On Jun 28, 8:14 pm, Bill Bushnell aka Mr. Bill wrote:
> Johnny Sunset wrote:
> > Did you have the bodysock on when riding off-road?
>
> Yes. I always ride with the sock unless I'm taking a short test ride because
> removing it changes the handling characteristics of the bike, namely the apparent
> effect of fork flop.
I found [1] that a body sock improved not only the directional
stability at low-speed, but even improved the cross-wind handling
(despite the derisive comments of someone who had never ridden with
one).
[1] <http://www.ransbikes.com/Gallery/Archive/images/Sherman1.jpg >.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 30 Jun 2007 05:35:37
From: waxbytes
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
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Johnny Sunset Wrote:
> On Jun 28, 8:14 pm, Bill Bushnell aka Mr. Bill wrote
> > Johnny Sunset wrote
> > > Did you have the bodysock on when riding off-road
>
> > Yes. I always ride with the sock unless I'm taking a short test rid
> becaus
> > removing it changes the handling characteristics of the bike, namel
> the apparen
> > effect of fork flop
>
> I found [1] that a body sock improved not only the directiona
> stability at low-speed, but even improved the cross-wind handlin
> (despite the derisive comments of someone who had never ridden wit
> one)
>
> [1] <http://www.ransbikes.com/Gallery/Archive/images/Sherman1.jpg>
>
> -
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovini
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
But not every rider has the dexterity to fold their green wings forwar
to the handlebar fairing
--
waxbytes
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 21:15:46
From: G.T.
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
"Johnny Sunset" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1183089000.139158.196830@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 28, 8:14 pm, Bill Bushnell aka Mr. Bill wrote:
>> Johnny Sunset wrote:
>> > Did you have the bodysock on when riding off-road?
>>
>> Yes. I always ride with the sock unless I'm taking a short test ride
>> because
>> removing it changes the handling characteristics of the bike, namely the
>> apparent
>> effect of fork flop.
>
> I found [1] that a body sock improved not only the directional
> stability at low-speed, but even improved the cross-wind handling
> (despite the derisive comments of someone who had never ridden with
> one).
>
> [1] <http://www.ransbikes.com/Gallery/Archive/images/Sherman1.jpg>.
Oh my geekness what the hell is that?
Greg
--
Ticketbastard tax tracker:
http://ticketmastersucks.org/tracker.html
Dethink to survive - Mclusky
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Date: 29 Jun 2007 05:14:32
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
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In article <13891rjrljceqea@corp.supernews.com >,
"G.T." <getnews1@dslextreme.com > wrote:
> "Johnny Sunset" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1183089000.139158.196830@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> > On Jun 28, 8:14 pm, Bill Bushnell aka Mr. Bill wrote:
> >> Johnny Sunset wrote:
> >> > Did you have the bodysock on when riding off-road?
> >>
> >> Yes. I always ride with the sock unless I'm taking a short test ride
> >> because
> >> removing it changes the handling characteristics of the bike, namely the
> >> apparent
> >> effect of fork flop.
> >
> > I found [1] that a body sock improved not only the directional
> > stability at low-speed, but even improved the cross-wind handling
> > (despite the derisive comments of someone who had never ridden with
> > one).
> >
> > [1] <http://www.ransbikes.com/Gallery/Archive/images/Sherman1.jpg>.
>
> Oh my geekness what the hell is that?
You don't want to know. Just keep moving.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 20:42:14
From: Johnny Sunset
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
On Jun 28, 9:19 am, "RonSonic" wrote:
> ...
> Try Sun Rhynolite mtb rims and any kevlar bead tire. Just stupid tight. The
> problem being that they are extremely shallow rims with no ditch for the bead on
> the off side to drop into to make slack for removal on the side you're working
> on. Don't know if they still make those.
What about Sun Rhyno Lite rims and steel beaded tires? Both the 44-406
Avocet Freestyle and 47-406 Tioga Comp Pool [1] steel beaded tires can
be mounted and dismounted without levers in my experience.
[1] Japanese made tan-wall - I have not tried the newer, reportedly
lesser quality Philippine made black-wall version.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 20:36:06
From: Johnny Sunset
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
On Jun 27, 10:12 pm, Chalo Colina wrote:
> Johnny Sunset wrote:
>
> > Chalo Colina wrote:
>
> > > Oh, I've ridden 'em, alright. I'd rank their handling qualities (the
> > > ones I've tried) behind that of most chopperbicyclesand ahead of a
> > > front-drive, center steering upright tandem trike I once built. I was
> > > about to take a saw to the latter when one of my more adventurous
> > > clubmates persuaded me to let him have it.
>
> > Many upright riders try to ride a recumbent as an upright, and equate
> > what is simply different as worse. The more experienced the upright
> > rider, the more they seem to do this. Of course recumbents handle
> > poorly when the wrong technique is used, as would conventional
> > uprightbicycles.
>
> I acknowledge that there are techniques that apply to one or the other
> type of bike but not both. That is why I chose to compare to choppers
> instead of comparing to a frame-damaged upright, or one being ridden
> backwards.
>
> Choppers are hard to ride, but they can be ridden. It is normal to
> acclimate to them through familiarity, even to the degree that it can
> interfere with one's ability to ride a normal bike. But just because
> a chopper can be acclimated to (even to the degree of feeling
> completely comfortable and natural on one), does not make its
> capabilities, inherent stability, or operating envelope the equal of a
> normal bike's.
>
> Likewise, a 'bent can be the most familiar and comfortable way for an
> individual rider to ride, while still being impaired when judged by
> its inherent stability and the breadth of its operating envelope.
If the inherent stability and "operating envelope" is acceptable for
vehicular cycling, then nothing else is needed for most on-road uses.
(Only a whacko nut would suggest recumbents could be equal substitutes
for upright ATB's on technical single-track.)
> Some folks are totally comfortable and capable on unicycles. That
> doesn't make a unicycle the equal of a two-wheeler.
>
> > > It might bear pointing out that a critical
> > > part had to break before I went on my face. It's a risk, though. Not
> > > as big a risk as, say, *letting a foot slip off the pedals while
> > > underway*, but it is nonetheless a risk.
>
> > How in the world do you have enough data to say this?
>
> I don't think you need a lot of hard figures to reckon that feet slip
> off of pedals and fall to the ground more often than BB spindles snap
> in two. I know this is unsupported by experimental data, but in this
> instance I feel confident that the generalization will hold no matter
> how much research is applied to the problem.
With properly functioning foot restraints (clipless, Powergrips, heel
slings or clips/straps) correctly used, this becomes a non-issue.
To BB spindle breakage should be added failures of cranks, pedal
spindles, forks and chains and chain derailment as mechanical failures
that could cause a header. Other factors than could cause a header
would be improper bracing of the upper body during hard braking,
foreign objects jammed in the front spokes, collision with a
pedestrian, dropping the front wheel into a grate opening or
longitudinal pavement crack.
I have more recumbent riding mileage than upright riding mileage, yet
have twice sustained unpleasant head injuries from going over the bars
on a road bike, yet have never had my foot even touch the ground
accidentally while riding a recumbent.
> > On all my recumbents, I can lift myself off the seat when coasting by
> > pushing on both pedals. I do this when crossing speed bumps, railroad
> > tracks that stick out, etc. When the rear wheel hits the bump, my back
> > sliding along the seat works as a friction damper, and greatly reduces
> > the maximum force at impact to the bike and myself.
>
> You do a back bend? That could definitely help, like the 'bent
> version of "posting". (And in the off season, you could keep in shape
> with Pilates instead of stationary cycling.)
>
> As an aside, I discovered in the gym of my last employer where the
> recumbent layout really and truly excels. It is a hands-down superior
> setup for watching TV!
>
> Since I don't watch TV or movies and I do plenty of mobile cycling, I
> didn't spend much time on the stationary 'bent at work. But I surely
> could have raised my cultural awareness of Hollywood films and reality
> TV if I had cultivated the habit.
>
> > That being said, tires make a difference. On anything but a velodrome,
> > the narrowest tires I would consider using on a recumbent are 35-305,
> > 28-406, 28-451, 25-559 and 23-622. For regular use where maximum speed
> > was not a concern, those would be upped to 40-305, 32-406, 32-451,
> > 28-559 and 28-622.
>
> On my uprights, I use 35-622 for speedy riding on decent roads, and up
> to 60-622 for general use.
Yes, but most cyclists have a mass of 0.6 Chalo of less. If you were
to ride a recumbent on a regular basis, I would recommend the widest
tires available, such as the Schwalbe Big Apple and Maxxis Hookworm.
> > > > It should be noted that Bill Bushnell is using about the narrowest and
> > > > most fragile tires available [4] (Continental GP, Schwalbe Stelvio and
> > > > Primo) in the ISO 406-mm (and larger?) sizes.
>
> > > That does seem like poor judgment, given that he's restricted to the
> > > sack o' taters approach to coping with surface anomalies.
>
> > No worse than the upright rider that uses 21-622 tires on rides.
>
> That's a dumb thing to do, but I bet most folks who do it fully expect
> to bunny-hop train tracks, potholes, and the like.
>
> I try to just avoid potholes, debris, and other things, and I stand up
> to traverse rails, misaligned joints, cattle guards, etc. I expect
> it's easier to get surprised by things in the road when your feet and
> cranks eclipse the fifty or more feet of road directly ahead. How
> distant is the surface that you can see clearly over your toes? I
> don't have a clear sense of that characteristic of a 'bent, but it
> looks like they'd vary a lot by design, with some lowracers offering
> almost no forward vision because the rider's legs are in the way.
At speed, one does not need to see the ground closely ahead, since it
would be too late to react. Chalo's concern about forward visibility
is not a concern on any of the lowracer I have ridden or even a bike
like this [1]. For very low-speed use, such as picking one's way
between cobbles and boulders on a rock field it could be a problem,
but as a pointed out above, no sensible person advocates recumbents
for technical off-road riding (fire roads and decent hiking trails [2]
are another matter).
[1] <http://www.lightningbikes.com/f40red1.jpg >.
[2] Look out, Mikey V!
--
Tom "0.5 Chalo" Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 15:00:38
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
RonSonic wrote:
>
> Try Sun Rhynolite mtb rims and any kevlar bead tire. Just stupid tight. The
> problem being that they are extremely shallow rims with no ditch for the bead on
> the off side to drop into to make slack for removal on the side you're working
> on. Don't know if they still make those.
I've built up quite a few Rhyno Lites in 700c and 26", without ever
having a problem with them. Four wheels on my household's bikes use
Rhyno Lites. No folding tires on them, though.
I prefer the Alex DM24 anyway. It's a very similar rim-- just wider,
harder, stronger, and much cheaper.
Chalo
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 09:31:48
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
Gary Young wrote:
>
> Chalo wrote:
> >
> > None
> > of my tires are so tight as to require anything more than good
> > technique and my own bare hands to remove them.
>
> What is your technique?
Holding a fold of deflated tire in one hand and maintaining tension on
it by hanging the wheel from it, I use the other hand to pinch the
beads together and nestle them into the deepest part of the channel
along the center of the rim. I work all the way around, yielding
slack to the section I have pinched up at the top. By the time I've
come all the way around, I can work a 4-8" length of one bead over the
edge of the rim, after which the rest can be slipped off with the
circumferential swipe of a finger. Once one bead is off, the other
will easily peel off.
If a tire can't be removed in this way, it means either the rim
channel is too shallow or the tire is too small. Now that ISO bead
seat diameters are well established, there is no excuse for
intentionally deviating from spec with a too-small tire bead.
Chalo
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 17:17:23
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
>> Chalo wrote:
>>> None
>>> of my tires are so tight as to require anything more than good
>>> technique and my own bare hands to remove them.
> Gary Young wrote:
>> What is your technique?
Chalo wrote:
> Holding a fold of deflated tire in one hand and maintaining tension on
> it by hanging the wheel from it, I use the other hand to pinch the
> beads together and nestle them into the deepest part of the channel
> along the center of the rim. I work all the way around, yielding
> slack to the section I have pinched up at the top. By the time I've
> come all the way around, I can work a 4-8" length of one bead over the
> edge of the rim, after which the rest can be slipped off with the
> circumferential swipe of a finger. Once one bead is off, the other
> will easily peel off.
>
> If a tire can't be removed in this way, it means either the rim
> channel is too shallow or the tire is too small. Now that ISO bead
> seat diameters are well established, there is no excuse for
> intentionally deviating from spec with a too-small tire bead.
Good writing, clear & concise.
When tires won't dismount/mount easily as described by Chalo above,
check the rim liner. A thick rim liner, a twisted liner, two rim liners
or a wide tape which occludes the bead seat will make the fit tight and
frustrating.
Although tires do vary a bit, the root of an overly tight tire fit can
be a poorly designed rim section with too little difference from bead
seat diameter to center channel diameter. (IMHO there's no excuse for
the same products to show this same defect for this many years).
Finally, some riders try to install a new tube 'as is' right out of the
box, deflated dead flat. It's easy to catch the tube under a tire edge
which makes the tire fit tightly and of course fails on inflation.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 03:33:06
From: Gary Young
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 08:24:19 +0000, Chalo wrote:
> G.T. wrote:
>>
>> What are these tire levers about which everyone is speaking? My fingers
>> sure haven't ever gouged my beautiful 630, 622, or 559 rims.
>
> I've been thinking along the same lines-- with a dozen and a half
> bikes in my stable, I haven't reached for a tire lever in years. None
> of my tires are so tight as to require anything more than good
> technique and my own bare hands to remove them.
>
What is your technique?
> But just a couple of weeks ago, I replaced a pair of booted 700x32
> Panaracer Paselas on my wife's bike with Conti Ultra Sport 700x28s.
> Those I almost had to use a tire lever to put _on_, so I know that
> they will be an odious chore when I have to pry them off again.
>
> There's no need for tires to be so tight. When I have to replace
> these, it will be back to Panaracers.
>
> Chalo
|
| |
Date: 28 Jun 2007 08:24:19
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
G.T. wrote:
>
> What are these tire levers about which everyone is speaking? My fingers
> sure haven't ever gouged my beautiful 630, 622, or 559 rims.
I've been thinking along the same lines-- with a dozen and a half
bikes in my stable, I haven't reached for a tire lever in years. None
of my tires are so tight as to require anything more than good
technique and my own bare hands to remove them.
But just a couple of weeks ago, I replaced a pair of booted 700x32
Panaracer Paselas on my wife's bike with Conti Ultra Sport 700x28s.
Those I almost had to use a tire lever to put _on_, so I know that
they will be an odious chore when I have to pry them off again.
There's no need for tires to be so tight. When I have to replace
these, it will be back to Panaracers.
Chalo
|
| | |
Date: 28 Jun 2007 10:24:01
From: G.T.
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
Chalo wrote:
> G.T. wrote:
>> What are these tire levers about which everyone is speaking? My fingers
>> sure haven't ever gouged my beautiful 630, 622, or 559 rims.
>
> I've been thinking along the same lines-- with a dozen and a half
> bikes in my stable, I haven't reached for a tire lever in years. None
> of my tires are so tight as to require anything more than good
> technique and my own bare hands to remove them.
>
> But just a couple of weeks ago, I replaced a pair of booted 700x32
> Panaracer Paselas on my wife's bike with Conti Ultra Sport 700x28s.
> Those I almost had to use a tire lever to put _on_, so I know that
> they will be an odious chore when I have to pry them off again.
>
> There's no need for tires to be so tight. When I have to replace
> these, it will be back to Panaracers.
Here, here. I'll drink to that. I haven't used Contis in over 12 years
and I seem to recall owning a pair of levers back then.
Greg
--
http://ticketmastersucks.org
|
| | |
Date: 28 Jun 2007 10:19:02
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 08:24:19 -0000, Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com > wrote:
>G.T. wrote:
>>
>> What are these tire levers about which everyone is speaking? My fingers
>> sure haven't ever gouged my beautiful 630, 622, or 559 rims.
>
>I've been thinking along the same lines-- with a dozen and a half
>bikes in my stable, I haven't reached for a tire lever in years. None
>of my tires are so tight as to require anything more than good
>technique and my own bare hands to remove them.
>
>But just a couple of weeks ago, I replaced a pair of booted 700x32
>Panaracer Paselas on my wife's bike with Conti Ultra Sport 700x28s.
>Those I almost had to use a tire lever to put _on_, so I know that
>they will be an odious chore when I have to pry them off again.
>
>There's no need for tires to be so tight. When I have to replace
>these, it will be back to Panaracers.
>
>Chalo
Try Sun Rhynolite mtb rims and any kevlar bead tire. Just stupid tight. The
problem being that they are extremely shallow rims with no ditch for the bead on
the off side to drop into to make slack for removal on the side you're working
on. Don't know if they still make those.
Ron
Ron
Effect pedal demo's up at http://www.soundclick.com/ronsonicpedalry
|
| | | |
Date: 28 Jun 2007 10:25:48
From: G.T.
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
RonSonic wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 08:24:19 -0000, Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> G.T. wrote:
>>> What are these tire levers about which everyone is speaking? My fingers
>>> sure haven't ever gouged my beautiful 630, 622, or 559 rims.
>> I've been thinking along the same lines-- with a dozen and a half
>> bikes in my stable, I haven't reached for a tire lever in years. None
>> of my tires are so tight as to require anything more than good
>> technique and my own bare hands to remove them.
>>
>> But just a couple of weeks ago, I replaced a pair of booted 700x32
>> Panaracer Paselas on my wife's bike with Conti Ultra Sport 700x28s.
>> Those I almost had to use a tire lever to put _on_, so I know that
>> they will be an odious chore when I have to pry them off again.
>>
>> There's no need for tires to be so tight. When I have to replace
>> these, it will be back to Panaracers.
>>
>> Chalo
>
> Try Sun Rhynolite mtb rims and any kevlar bead tire. Just stupid tight. The
> problem being that they are extremely shallow rims with no ditch for the bead on
> the off side to drop into to make slack for removal on the side you're working
> on. Don't know if they still make those.
>
MA2s are pretty shallow and with most tires I don't have a problem
changing them without levers.
Greg
--
http://ticketmastersucks.org
|
| |
Date: 28 Jun 2007 03:12:56
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
Johnny Sunset wrote:
>
> ChaloColina wrote:
> >
> > Oh, I've ridden 'em, alright. I'd rank their handling qualities (the
> > ones I've tried) behind that of most chopperbicyclesand ahead of a
> > front-drive, center steering upright tandem trike I once built. I was
> > about to take a saw to the latter when one of my more adventurous
> > clubmates persuaded me to let him have it.
>
> Many upright riders try to ride a recumbent as an upright, and equate
> what is simply different as worse. The more experienced the upright
> rider, the more they seem to do this. Of course recumbents handle
> poorly when the wrong technique is used, as would conventional
> uprightbicycles.
I acknowledge that there are techniques that apply to one or the other
type of bike but not both. That is why I chose to compare to choppers
instead of comparing to a frame-damaged upright, or one being ridden
backwards.
Choppers are hard to ride, but they can be ridden. It is normal to
acclimate to them through familiarity, even to the degree that it can
interfere with one's ability to ride a normal bike. But just because
a chopper can be acclimated to (even to the degree of feeling
completely comfortable and natural on one), does not make its
capabilities, inherent stability, or operating envelope the equal of a
normal bike's.
Likewise, a 'bent can be the most familiar and comfortable way for an
individual rider to ride, while still being impaired when judged by
its inherent stability and the breadth of its operating envelope.
Some folks are totally comfortable and capable on unicycles. That
doesn't make a unicycle the equal of a two-wheeler.
> > It might bear pointing out that a critical
> > part had to break before I went on my face. It's a risk, though. Not
> > as big a risk as, say, *letting a foot slip off the pedals while
> > underway*, but it is nonetheless a risk.
>
> How in the world do you have enough data to say this?
I don't think you need a lot of hard figures to reckon that feet slip
off of pedals and fall to the ground more often than BB spindles snap
in two. I know this is unsupported by experimental data, but in this
instance I feel confident that the generalization will hold no matter
how much research is applied to the problem.
> On all my recumbents, I can lift myself off the seat when coasting by
> pushing on both pedals. I do this when crossing speed bumps, railroad
> tracks that stick out, etc. When the rear wheel hits the bump, my back
> sliding along the seat works as a friction damper, and greatly reduces
> the maximum force at impact to the bike and myself.
You do a back bend? That could definitely help, like the 'bent
version of "posting". (And in the off season, you could keep in shape
with Pilates instead of stationary cycling.)
As an aside, I discovered in the gym of my last employer where the
recumbent layout really and truly excels. It is a hands-down superior
setup for watching TV!
Since I don't watch TV or movies and I do plenty of mobile cycling, I
didn't spend much time on the stationary 'bent at work. But I surely
could have raised my cultural awareness of Hollywood films and reality
TV if I had cultivated the habit.
> That being said, tires make a difference. On anything but a velodrome,
> the narrowest tires I would consider using on a recumbent are 35-305,
> 28-406, 28-451, 25-559 and 23-622. For regular use where maximum speed
> was not a concern, those would be upped to 40-305, 32-406, 32-451,
> 28-559 and 28-622.
On my uprights, I use 35-622 for speedy riding on decent roads, and up
to 60-622 for general use.
> > > It should be noted that Bill Bushnell is using about the narrowest and
> > > most fragile tires available [4] (Continental GP, Schwalbe Stelvio and
> > > Primo) in the ISO 406-mm (and larger?) sizes.
>
> > That does seem like poor judgment, given that he's restricted to the
> > sack o' taters approach to coping with surface anomalies.
>
> No worse than the upright rider that uses 21-622 tires on rides.
That's a dumb thing to do, but I bet most folks who do it fully expect
to bunny-hop train tracks, potholes, and the like.
I try to just avoid potholes, debris, and other things, and I stand up
to traverse rails, misaligned joints, cattle guards, etc. I expect
it's easier to get surprised by things in the road when your feet and
cranks eclipse the fifty or more feet of road directly ahead. How
distant is the surface that you can see clearly over your toes? I
don't have a clear sense of that characteristic of a 'bent, but it
looks like they'd vary a lot by design, with some lowracers offering
almost no forward vision because the rider's legs are in the way.
Chalo
|
| |
Date: 27 Jun 2007 17:45:30
From: Johnny Sunset
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
On Jun 27, 6:34 pm, Bill Bushnell aka Mr. Bill wrote:
> Chalo Colina wrote:
> > Johnny Sunset wrote:
>
> > > Chalo Colina wrote:
> ...
> > [Tom Sherman wrote:]
> > > It should be noted that Bill Bushnell is using about the narrowest and
> > > most fragile tires available [4] (Continental GP, Schwalbe Stelvio and
> > > Primo) in the ISO 406-mm (and larger?) sizes.
>
> My one and only pinch flat on a recumbent occurred with the Conti GP. This was on
> a bike I don't ride off-road. All of my other front tires were replaced after
> wearing out from age or a sidewall cut (Stelvio). The Primo Comet is fast on
> pavement, is fat enough and sturdy enough to ride off-road on my bike without
> getting pinch flats, and doesn't cost a bundle. Lately, I've been pleased with a
> Greenspeed Scorcher (ISO 406x40) on the front of one of my bikes.
I have yet to try the Greenspeed, since I have a stash of Comp Pool
and Avocet Freestyle tires to use up, both of which are considerably
sturdier than the Comet.
> > That does seem like poor judgment, given that he's restricted to the
> > sack o' taters approach to coping with surface anomalies.
>
> With sufficiently fat tires inflated properly and the ability to discern obstacles
> that can be faced head-on and those best avoided, one can ride quite enjoyably
> like a sack o' taters.
>
> But, one doesn't have to ride that way. I posted on this topic some time ago.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2mydy3
> ORhttp://tinyurl.com/ywhg7y
I see someone else has discovered the technique of lifting one's upper
body off the seat while going over bumps on a recumbent.
Did you have the bodysock on when riding off-road?
Going back to the broken parts gallery, how did Easy Racers and
Rotator handle the frame cracking problems?
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
|
| | |
Date: 29 Jun 2007 01:14:18
From: Bill Bushnell
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
Johnny Sunset <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Did you have the bodysock on when riding off-road?
Yes. I always ride with the sock unless I'm taking a short test ride because
removing it changes the handling characteristics of the bike, namely the apparent
effect of fork flop.
> Going back to the broken parts gallery, how did Easy Racers and
> Rotator handle the frame cracking problems?
The frames were fixed at no charge. In the case of the ER frame the cracks occur
because the two bottom tubes translate fore/aft relative to each other during
pedaling, putting the 1/2" tabs in shear. The only reason I can think they exist
is that they were thought to prevent outward bowing of the bottom tubes. Longer
plates might withstand the shear, but I'm not sure this is necessary. My bike has
around 35k miles on it, and I know frames that have lasted three times as long and
failed in a crash, not in fatigue. One of the tabs I had replaced with a thick
plate 3" long (near the bottom bracket) that has come in handy for attaching other
accessories and has held up better. The other tabs are cracked again, completely
separated on one side, but I'm in no rush to get these fixed.
The Rotator frames were repaired at no charge, although after the second seat
frame break at about 10k miles, I was offered a new seat (that had no
stress-rising screw holes) at a reduced price. All of the Ti frame breaks could
be traced to unreinforced holes in the tubing.
The main hassle with a cracked frame is the strip-down, ship, wait, build-up
cycle, which took a couple weeks for the seat and a couple months for the main
frame.
--
Bill Bushnell
http://pobox.com/~bushnell/
|
| |
Date: 27 Jun 2007 17:35:22
From: Johnny Sunset
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
On Jun 27, 8:27 am, Chalo Colina wrote:
> Johnny Sunset wrote:
>
> > Chalo Colina wrote:
>
> > > Welcome to the wonderful world of recumbents! Now featuring delights
> > > you didn't even know existed, like femur-breaking leg suck and pinch
> > > flats that cut all the way through the tire casing!
>
> > Is this more recumbent "wisdom" from non users?
>
> Oh, I've ridden 'em, alright. I'd rank their handling qualities (the
> ones I've tried) behind that of most chopper bicycles and ahead of a
> front-drive, center steering upright tandem trike I once built. I was
> about to take a saw to the latter when one of my more adventurous
> clubmates persuaded me to let him have it.
Many upright riders try to ride a recumbent as an upright, and equate
what is simply different as worse. The more experienced the upright
rider, the more they seem to do this. Of course recumbents handle
poorly when the wrong technique is used, as would conventional upright
bicycles.
I am to the point where uprights feel really odd, despite my having
learned to ride a bicycle on an upright.
> > Since this has been brought
> > up as a negative, it only seems fair to point out the types of
> > injuries that can result to the rider's face, arms and shoulders from
> > a "pitch over" accident on an upright.
>
> I've done that, certainly. It might bear pointing out that a critical
> part had to break before I went on my face. It's a risk, though. Not
> as big a risk as, say, *letting a foot slip off the pedals while
> underway*, but it is nonetheless a risk.
How in the world do you have enough data to say this?
While a severe leg injury is obviously a very bad thing, it is not
nearly as likely to cause permanent brain injury or death as landing
on one's head (magic foam hat or not).
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent/msg/e9f271e...
>
> > Pinch flats are a phenomenon well known to uprights, and ones that cut
> > through the casing appear to be an anomaly on both uprights and
> > recumbents.
>
> It seems nakedly obvious to me that a rider who can hop the bike,
> suspend it by standing up, or at least shift weight between front and
> rear wheels is radically less likely to experience such a harsh
> bottoming of the tire. I'm sure this results in some risk
> compensation behavior by upright riders, like (for instance) riding
> over surfaces that aren't smoothly paved.
On all my recumbents, I can lift myself off the seat when coasting by
pushing on both pedals. I do this when crossing speed bumps, railroad
tracks that stick out, etc. When the rear wheel hits the bump, my back
sliding along the seat works as a friction damper, and greatly reduces
the maximum force at impact to the bike and myself.
That being said, tires make a difference. On anything but a velodrome,
the narrowest tires I would consider using on a recumbent are 35-305,
28-406, 28-451, 25-559 and 23-622. For regular use where maximum speed
was not a concern, those would be upped to 40-305, 32-406, 32-451,
28-559 and 28-622.
> > It should be noted that Bill Bushnell is using about the narrowest and
> > most fragile tires available [4] (Continental GP, Schwalbe Stelvio and
> > Primo) in the ISO 406-mm (and larger?) sizes.
>
> That does seem like poor judgment, given that he's restricted to the
> sack o' taters approach to coping with surface anomalies.
No worse than the upright rider that uses 21-622 tires on rides.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
|
| | |
Date: 29 Jun 2007 01:18:51
From: Bill Bushnell
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
Johnny Sunset <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote:
> > > It should be noted that Bill Bushnell is using about the narrowest and
> > > most fragile tires available [4] (Continental GP, Schwalbe Stelvio and
> > > Primo) in the ISO 406-mm (and larger?) sizes.
> >
> > That does seem like poor judgment, given that he's restricted to the
> > sack o' taters approach to coping with surface anomalies.
> No worse than the upright rider that uses 21-622 tires on rides.
For the record, the narrowest tires (GP and Stelvio) in my bunch are 28mm wide.
--
Bill Bushnell
http://pobox.com/~bushnell/
|
| |
Date: 27 Jun 2007 16:05:41
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
On Jun 26, 8:17 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <tjj3839epuredfmrdhq3qq3m9oq1g9m...@4ax.com>,
>
> carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
> > In another thread, Bill Bushnell posted a link to a chain failure
> > picture. I followed the bread crumbs and found that he has a nicely
> > done gallery of busted bike stuff:
>
> >http://bushnell.homeip.net/~bill/bike/pictures/broken_bike_parts/inde...
>
> > Cheers,
>
> > Carl Fogel
>
> I see he gets about as much life out of his tire levers as I do out of
> mine. They're just completely a wear item, eh?
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau rcous...@sfu.cahttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
I wouldn't call those blue plastic Park ones a wear item, they're just
crap. I had one break exactly like that the first time I used it. They
opted to make the plastic so hard that it's brittle. I then switched
to the Soma steel-core ones, and haven't had a problem with a tight
bead since.
|
| |
Date: 27 Jun 2007 13:27:48
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
Johnny Sunset wrote:
>
> Chalo Colina wrote:
> >
> > Welcome to the wonderful world of recumbents! Now featuring delights
> > you didn't even know existed, like femur-breaking leg suck and pinch
> > flats that cut all the way through the tire casing!
>
> Is this more recumbent "wisdom" from non users?
Oh, I've ridden 'em, alright. I'd rank their handling qualities (the
ones I've tried) behind that of most chopper bicycles and ahead of a
front-drive, center steering upright tandem trike I once built. I was
about to take a saw to the latter when one of my more adventurous
clubmates persuaded me to let him have it.
> Since this has been brought
> up as a negative, it only seems fair to point out the types of
> injuries that can result to the rider's face, arms and shoulders from
> a "pitch over" accident on an upright.
I've done that, certainly. It might bear pointing out that a critical
part had to break before I went on my face. It's a risk, though. Not
as big a risk as, say, *letting a foot slip off the pedals while
underway*, but it is nonetheless a risk.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent/msg/e9f271e6409d3f1c
> Pinch flats are a phenomenon well known to uprights, and ones that cut
> through the casing appear to be an anomaly on both uprights and
> recumbents.
It seems nakedly obvious to me that a rider who can hop the bike,
suspend it by standing up, or at least shift weight between front and
rear wheels is radically less likely to experience such a harsh
bottoming of the tire. I'm sure this results in some risk
compensation behavior by upright riders, like (for instance) riding
over surfaces that aren't smoothly paved.
> It should be noted that Bill Bushnell is using about the narrowest and
> most fragile tires available [4] (Continental GP, Schwalbe Stelvio and
> Primo) in the ISO 406-mm (and larger?) sizes.
That does seem like poor judgment, given that he's restricted to the
sack o' taters approach to coping with surface anomalies.
Chalo
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jun 2007 23:34:33
From: Bill Bushnell
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com > wrote:
> Johnny Sunset wrote:
> >
> > Chalo Colina wrote:
> > >
> > > Welcome to the wonderful world of recumbents! Now featuring delights
> > > you didn't even know existed, like femur-breaking leg suck and pinch
> > > flats that cut all the way through the tire casing!
> >
> > Is this more recumbent "wisdom" from non users?
> Oh, I've ridden 'em, alright. I'd rank their handling qualities (the
> ones I've tried) behind that of most chopper bicycles and ahead of a
> front-drive, center steering upright tandem trike I once built. I was
> about to take a saw to the latter when one of my more adventurous
> clubmates persuaded me to let him have it.
Chalo, don't hold back. Let us know what you really think.
> It seems nakedly obvious to me that a rider who can hop the bike,
> suspend it by standing up, or at least shift weight between front and
> rear wheels is radically less likely to experience such a harsh
> bottoming of the tire. I'm sure this results in some risk
> compensation behavior by upright riders, like (for instance) riding
> over surfaces that aren't smoothly paved.
These tricks can help, but the best trick is not to run over anything that is
likely to cause a pinch flat. I'm sure there are contributors to this forum who
can recall a more spectacular pinch flat.
The incident in question occurred in winter on a normally smooth and straight road
I had ridden many times, under trees with scattered sun and shadow. I was moving
quickly, about 40-50 kph, and I simply didn't see the relatively new pothole smack
dab in the center of the right-hand tire track of the lane where there had been
none the last time I had ridden that way. I wasn't paying attention. Mistakes
happen.
> [Tom Sherman wrote:]
> > It should be noted that Bill Bushnell is using about the narrowest and
> > most fragile tires available [4] (Continental GP, Schwalbe Stelvio and
> > Primo) in the ISO 406-mm (and larger?) sizes.
My one and only pinch flat on a recumbent occurred with the Conti GP. This was on
a bike I don't ride off-road. All of my other front tires were replaced after
wearing out from age or a sidewall cut (Stelvio). The Primo Comet is fast on
pavement, is fat enough and sturdy enough to ride off-road on my bike without
getting pinch flats, and doesn't cost a bundle. Lately, I've been pleased with a
Greenspeed Scorcher (ISO 406x40) on the front of one of my bikes.
> That does seem like poor judgment, given that he's restricted to the
> sack o' taters approach to coping with surface anomalies.
With sufficiently fat tires inflated properly and the ability to discern obstacles
that can be faced head-on and those best avoided, one can ride quite enjoyably
like a sack o' taters.
But, one doesn't have to ride that way. I posted on this topic some time ago.
http://tinyurl.com/2mydy3
OR
http://tinyurl.com/ywhg7y
--
Bill Bushnell
http://pobox.com/~bushnell/
|
| |
Date: 27 Jun 2007 21:59:12
From: NickP
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
See also http://materials.open.ac.uk/mem/mem_ccf.htm
<carlfogel@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:tjj3839epuredfmrdhq3qq3m9oq1g9m7v3@4ax.com...
> In another thread, Bill Bushnell posted a link to a chain failure
> picture. I followed the bread crumbs and found that he has a nicely
> done gallery of busted bike stuff:
>
> http://bushnell.homeip.net/~bill/bike/pictures/broken_bike_parts/index.html
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jun 2007 12:53:56
From:
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 21:59:12 +1000, "NickP" <someone@nowhere.au >
wrote:
>See also http://materials.open.ac.uk/mem/mem_ccf.htm
>
><carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:tjj3839epuredfmrdhq3qq3m9oq1g9m7v3@4ax.com...
>> In another thread, Bill Bushnell posted a link to a chain failure
>> picture. I followed the bread crumbs and found that he has a nicely
>> done gallery of busted bike stuff:
>>
>> http://bushnell.homeip.net/~bill/bike/pictures/broken_bike_parts/index.html
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Carl Fogel
Dear Nick,
That's always a good one. Here are two other bike failure galleries:
http://pardo.net/pardo/bike/pic/index.html
http://www.m-gineering.nl/oopsg.htm
There must be others.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
|
| |
Date: 27 Jun 2007 04:45:20
From: Johnny Sunset
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
On Jun 27, 3:45 am, Chalo Colina wrote:
> Carl Fogel wrote:
>
> > In another thread, Bill Bushnell posted a link to a chain failure
> > picture. I followed the bread crumbs and found that he has a nicely
> > done gallery of busted bike stuff:
>
> >http://bushnell.homeip.net/~bill/bike/pictures/broken_bike_parts/inde...
>
> Especially choice-- "pinch flat through the tire":
>
> http://bushnell.homeip.net/~bill/bike/pictures/broken_bike_parts/page...
>
> Welcome to the wonderful world of recumbents! Now featuring delights
> you didn't even know existed, like femur-breaking leg suck and pinch
> flats that cut all the way through the tire casing!
N.B. I did not start the discussion on this subject.
Is this more recumbent "wisdom" from non users?
I doubt that there is enough data available for a proper statistical
analysis on the frequency of "leg suck". Since this has been brought
up as a negative, it only seems fair to point out the types of
injuries that can result to the rider's face, arms and shoulders from
a "pitch over" accident on an upright. Here are a couple of links to
stories of such experiences. [1] [2] Going over the bars on a
properly designed recumbent [3] is almost impossible; the typical
injury in a single bicycle crash is some road rash on the hip and
elbow on the rider's "down" side.
Pinch flats are a phenomenon well known to uprights, and ones that cut
through the casing appear to be an anomaly on both uprights and
recumbents. Can anyone find more recumbent examples? Note that Bill
Bushnell rides in terrain that allows for higher descending speeds
than most; if he was in the Midwest he would rarely go over 70 kph,
even with a front fairing and bodysock on his GRR.
It should be noted that Bill Bushnell is using about the narrowest and
most fragile tires available [4] (Continental GP, Schwalbe Stelvio and
Primo) in the ISO 406-mm (and larger?) sizes. The durability of these
tires should be compared to lightweight tires in ISO 19-622 and 21-622
sizes.
[1] <http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.misc/msg/
d5da47d1c123e106?dmode=source&hl=en >.
[2] <http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/
d558041eb764484c?dmode=source&hl=en >.
[3] Not the poorly designed Hypercycle [5] from the early 1980's which
seems to be responsible for many of the opinions of inherent recumbent
"defects".
[4] Except for some tires meant for the very lightly loaded front
wheels of racing wheelchairs (whose riders regularly do wheelies).
[5] < https://home.pacbell.net/recumbnt/hypercycle.jpg >.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
|
| |
Date: 27 Jun 2007 08:45:01
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
Carl Fogel wrote:
>
> In another thread, Bill Bushnell posted a link to a chain failure
> picture. I followed the bread crumbs and found that he has a nicely
> done gallery of busted bike stuff:
>
> http://bushnell.homeip.net/~bill/bike/pictures/broken_bike_parts/inde...
Especially choice-- "pinch flat through the tire":
http://bushnell.homeip.net/~bill/bike/pictures/broken_bike_parts/pages/page_55.html
Welcome to the wonderful world of recumbents! Now featuring delights
you didn't even know existed, like femur-breaking leg suck and pinch
flats that cut all the way through the tire casing!
Chalo
|
| |
Date: 27 Jun 2007 03:17:50
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
In article <tjj3839epuredfmrdhq3qq3m9oq1g9m7v3@4ax.com >,
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> In another thread, Bill Bushnell posted a link to a chain failure
> picture. I followed the bread crumbs and found that he has a nicely
> done gallery of busted bike stuff:
>
> http://bushnell.homeip.net/~bill/bike/pictures/broken_bike_parts/index.html
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel
I see he gets about as much life out of his tire levers as I do out of
mine. They're just completely a wear item, eh?
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jun 2007 12:24:43
From: Jay Hill
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> I see he gets about as much life out of his tire levers as I do out of
> mine. They're just completely a wear item, eh?
I wonder how many eyes have been lost from snapping tire levers.
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jun 2007 06:18:05
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 03:17:50 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca >
wrote:
>In article <tjj3839epuredfmrdhq3qq3m9oq1g9m7v3@4ax.com>,
> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>
>> In another thread, Bill Bushnell posted a link to a chain failure
>> picture. I followed the bread crumbs and found that he has a nicely
>> done gallery of busted bike stuff:
>>
>> http://bushnell.homeip.net/~bill/bike/pictures/broken_bike_parts/index.html
>>
>I see he gets about as much life out of his tire levers as I do out of
>mine. They're just completely a wear item, eh?
I just got some of these
http://www.somafab.com/tirelevers.html
Let's see if they last.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
|
| | | |
Date: 28 Jun 2007 13:32:57
From: Paul Myron Hobson
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> I just got some of these
> http://www.somafab.com/tirelevers.html
>
> Let's see if they last.
Mine have over the past 3 years or so
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Jun 2007 20:31:01
From: Andrew Price
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 06:18:05 -0400, John Forrest Tomlinson
<usenetremove@jt10000.com > wrote:
>>I see he gets about as much life out of his tire levers as I do out of
>>mine. They're just completely a wear item, eh?
>
>I just got some of these
>http://www.somafab.com/tirelevers.html
>
>Let's see if they last.
I have more difficulties getting some tyres back on - the combination
of Campagnolo wheels and Vittoria tyres being particularly diabolical
- I usually have sore thumbs for a week afterwards.
|
| | |
Date: 26 Jun 2007 21:31:13
From:
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 03:17:50 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca >
wrote:
>In article <tjj3839epuredfmrdhq3qq3m9oq1g9m7v3@4ax.com>,
> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>
>> In another thread, Bill Bushnell posted a link to a chain failure
>> picture. I followed the bread crumbs and found that he has a nicely
>> done gallery of busted bike stuff:
>>
>> http://bushnell.homeip.net/~bill/bike/pictures/broken_bike_parts/index.html
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Carl Fogel
>
>I see he gets about as much life out of his tire levers as I do out of
>mine. They're just completely a wear item, eh?
Dear Ryan,
Well, bicycle tire irons like the dainty one second from the left in
this picture are probably consumables for riders with tight beads on
small rims:
http://i15.tinypic.com/4uvil2v.jpg
The black 22-inch iron is used for arguing with motorcycle tires. it's
a bit large for a seat pack, but a bicycle rim will break before that
tire iron does.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
|
| | | |
Date: 01 Jul 2007 09:53:22
From: Jasper Janssen
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:31:13 -0600, carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>Well, bicycle tire irons like the dainty one second from the left in
>this picture are probably consumables for riders with tight beads on
>small rims:
>
>http://i15.tinypic.com/4uvil2v.jpg
>
That 'dainty' one is a cheap but still very solid tire iron, compared to
most plastic ones. With proper technique, the forces on a bicycle tire
iron are pretty damn small -- certainly not bigger than those types of
levers can take.
I can't manage without tire irons, or at least, it's usually easier with,
but that's mainly because I have fingers like sausages and getting the
bead over the hump would require an awful lot of room without some tool or
other.
Jasper
|
| | | | |
Date: 03 Jul 2007 07:47:12
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
Jasper Janssen wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:31:13 -0600, carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>
>> Well, bicycle tire irons like the dainty one second from the left in
>> this picture are probably consumables for riders with tight beads on
>> small rims:
>>
>> http://i15.tinypic.com/4uvil2v.jpg
>>
> That 'dainty' one is a cheap but still very solid tire iron, compared to
> most plastic ones. With proper technique, the forces on a bicycle tire
> iron are pretty damn small -- certainly not bigger than those types of
> levers can take.
>
> I can't manage without tire irons, or at least, it's usually easier with,
> but that's mainly because I have fingers like sausages and getting the
> bead over the hump would require an awful lot of room without some tool or
> other.
I have a few of those "dainty" ones -- been using them since the 60's.
It never occurred to me that I'd ever damage one (& I haven't). I've
never broken a plastic one either, though. I wouldn't use a tire that
was that much trouble to mount at home for fear of how much more
difficult it might be under adverse conditions out on the road.
|
| | | |
Date: 28 Jun 2007 00:41:46
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
In article <u6m383dll0dbaf566jvpua8jqlbd7mn5ap@4ax.com >,
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 03:17:50 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <tjj3839epuredfmrdhq3qq3m9oq1g9m7v3@4ax.com>,
> > carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> >
> >> In another thread, Bill Bushnell posted a link to a chain failure
> >> picture. I followed the bread crumbs and found that he has a nicely
> >> done gallery of busted bike stuff:
> >>
> >> http://bushnell.homeip.net/~bill/bike/pictures/broken_bike_parts/index.html
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Carl Fogel
> >
> >I see he gets about as much life out of his tire levers as I do out of
> >mine. They're just completely a wear item, eh?
>
> Dear Ryan,
>
> Well, bicycle tire irons like the dainty one second from the left in
> this picture are probably consumables for riders with tight beads on
> small rims:
>
> http://i15.tinypic.com/4uvil2v.jpg
>
> The black 22-inch iron is used for arguing with motorcycle tires. it's
> a bit large for a seat pack, but a bicycle rim will break before that
> tire iron does.
I always just used a screwdriver when I was into mounting my own
motorcycle tires (a conceit from a time when I rode an FZR400, which
meant I rode the plentiful and cheap racer take-offs I bought from the
racers).
Why yes, my bike did have gouged-up rim beads, why do you ask?
I get maybe a dozen or two uses out of my tire levers on the bicycle
side. I think the record was a Crank Bros Speedlever that lasted about
three uses, but others have been nearly as bad.
I would consider a nice metal one, but I like my current rims. Will wait
to hear more from the Soma users.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | | |
Date: 19 Jul 2007 10:17:17
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca > wrote:
>
> I get maybe a dozen or two uses out of my tire levers on the bicycle
> side. I think the record was a Crank Bros Speedlever that lasted about
> three uses, but others have been nearly as bad.
>
> I would consider a nice metal one, but I like my current rims. Will wait
> to hear more from the Soma users.
The Soma steel core ones? Not so good. The tip snaps off, making them
useless. They didn't last nearly as long as my plain jane park nylon
levers. Unless they've changed them recently, I'd avoid them.
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible
with raisins in it.
-- Dorothy Parker
|
| | | | | |
Date: 19 Jul 2007 17:55:12
From:
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
Dane Buson writes:
>> I get maybe a dozen or two uses out of my tire levers on the
>> bicycle side. I think the record was a Crank Bros Speedlever that
>> lasted about three uses, but others have been nearly as bad.
>> I would consider a nice metal one, but I like my current rims. Will
>> wait to hear more from the Soma users.
> The Soma steel core ones? Not so good. The tip snaps off, making
> them useless. They didn't last nearly as long as my plain jane park
> nylon levers. Unless they've changed them recently, I'd avoid them.
It takes people from the low tech bicycle business to come up with
this dumb idea. Putting a strip of sheet metal in the neutral axis of
a plastic lever weakens the device because there are two additional
weak shear planes created by the interface, beside the sheet metal
adding no more bending stiffness than a bare piece of ... sheet metal,
Jobst Brandt
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 19 Jul 2007 12:08:54
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Dane Buson writes:
>
>>> I get maybe a dozen or two uses out of my tire levers on the
>>> bicycle side. I think the record was a Crank Bros Speedlever that
>>> lasted about three uses, but others have been nearly as bad.
>
>>> I would consider a nice metal one, but I like my current rims. Will
>>> wait to hear more from the Soma users.
>
>> The Soma steel core ones? Not so good. The tip snaps off, making
>> them useless. They didn't last nearly as long as my plain jane park
>> nylon levers. Unless they've changed them recently, I'd avoid them.
>
> It takes people from the low tech bicycle business to come up with
> this dumb idea. Putting a strip of sheet metal in the neutral axis of
> a plastic lever weakens the device because there are two additional
> weak shear planes created by the interface, beside the sheet metal
> adding no more bending stiffness than a bare piece of ... sheet metal,
That was essentially the conclusion I came to. I would think it would
have been better to plasti-coat a real steel tire lever. Of course, I
couldn't tell how they'd built it until I broke it open.
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
Nature abhors a hero. For one thing, he violates the law of conservation
of energy. For another, how can it be the survival of the fittest when the
fittest keeps putting himself in situations where he is most likely to be
creamed? -- Solomon Short
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 19 Jul 2007 16:53:02
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
Dane Buson wrote:
> jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>> Dane Buson writes:
>>
>>>> I get maybe a dozen or two uses out of my tire levers on the
>>>> bicycle side. I think the record was a Crank Bros Speedlever that
>>>> lasted about three uses, but others have been nearly as bad.
>>>> I would consider a nice metal one, but I like my current rims. Will
>>>> wait to hear more from the Soma users.
>>> The Soma steel core ones? Not so good. The tip snaps off, making
>>> them useless. They didn't last nearly as long as my plain jane park
>>> nylon levers. Unless they've changed them recently, I'd avoid them.
>> It takes people from the low tech bicycle business to come up with
>> this dumb idea. Putting a strip of sheet metal in the neutral axis of
>> a plastic lever weakens the device because there are two additional
>> weak shear planes created by the interface, beside the sheet metal
>> adding no more bending stiffness than a bare piece of ... sheet metal,
>
> That was essentially the conclusion I came to. I would think it would
> have been better to plasti-coat a real steel tire lever. Of course, I
> couldn't tell how they'd built it until I broke it open.
>
What's wrong with the (plain old) real steel ones? I have a couple, the
seem to work better than the plastic, mostly because they're thinner.
I've never broken one of either type, though.
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 20 Jul 2007 00:49:37
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
In article <T6idnfbhE52xUgLbnZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@comcast.com >,
Peter Cole <peter_cole@comcast.net > wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
> > jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> >> Dane Buson writes:
> >>
> >>>> I get maybe a dozen or two uses out of my tire levers on the
> >>>> bicycle side. I think the record was a Crank Bros Speedlever that
> >>>> lasted about three uses, but others have been nearly as bad.
> >>>> I would consider a nice metal one, but I like my current rims. Will
> >>>> wait to hear more from the Soma users.
> >>> The Soma steel core ones? Not so good. The tip snaps off, making
> >>> them useless. They didn't last nearly as long as my plain jane park
> >>> nylon levers. Unless they've changed them recently, I'd avoid them.
> >> It takes people from the low tech bicycle business to come up with
> >> this dumb idea. Putting a strip of sheet metal in the neutral axis of
> >> a plastic lever weakens the device because there are two additional
> >> weak shear planes created by the interface, beside the sheet metal
> >> adding no more bending stiffness than a bare piece of ... sheet metal,
> >
> > That was essentially the conclusion I came to. I would think it would
> > have been better to plasti-coat a real steel tire lever. Of course, I
> > couldn't tell how they'd built it until I broke it open.
> >
>
> What's wrong with the (plain old) real steel ones? I have a couple, the
> seem to work better than the plastic, mostly because they're thinner.
> I've never broken one of either type, though.
Because they gouge aluminum rims?
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 20 Jul 2007 09:22:40
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 00:49:37 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca > wrote:
>In article <T6idnfbhE52xUgLbnZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@comcast.com>,
> Peter Cole <peter_cole@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Dane Buson wrote:
>> > jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>> >> Dane Buson writes:
>> >>
>> >>>> I get maybe a dozen or two uses out of my tire levers on the
>> >>>> bicycle side. I think the record was a Crank Bros Speedlever that
>> >>>> lasted about three uses, but others have been nearly as bad.
>> >>>> I would consider a nice metal one, but I like my current rims. Will
>> >>>> wait to hear more from the Soma users.
>> >>> The Soma steel core ones? Not so good. The tip snaps off, making
>> >>> them useless. They didn't last nearly as long as my plain jane park
>> >>> nylon levers. Unless they've changed them recently, I'd avoid them.
>> >> It takes people from the low tech bicycle business to come up with
>> >> this dumb idea. Putting a strip of sheet metal in the neutral axis of
>> >> a plastic lever weakens the device because there are two additional
>> >> weak shear planes created by the interface, beside the sheet metal
>> >> adding no more bending stiffness than a bare piece of ... sheet metal,
>> >
>> > That was essentially the conclusion I came to. I would think it would
>> > have been better to plasti-coat a real steel tire lever. Of course, I
>> > couldn't tell how they'd built it until I broke it open.
>> >
>>
>> What's wrong with the (plain old) real steel ones? I have a couple, the
>> seem to work better than the plastic, mostly because they're thinner.
>> I've never broken one of either type, though.
>
>Because they gouge aluminum rims?
I've got an old set of Brooks branded steel levers that work beautifully and are
incapable of causing any damage other than to burnish whatever edge of the rim
they are dragged along.
Ron
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 20 Jul 2007 09:11:15
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> In article <T6idnfbhE52xUgLbnZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@comcast.com>,
> Peter Cole <peter_cole@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>> What's wrong with the (plain old) real steel ones? I have a couple, the
>> seem to work better than the plastic, mostly because they're thinner.
>> I've never broken one of either type, though.
>
> Because they gouge aluminum rims?
>
I've used them on exclusively aluminum rims since the 60's and I haven't
noticed that.
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 21 Jul 2007 00:46:19
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
In article <ePadne_XNtTsKT3bnZ2dnUVZ_oLinZ2d@comcast.com >,
Peter Cole <peter_cole@comcast.net > wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > In article <T6idnfbhE52xUgLbnZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@comcast.com>,
> > Peter Cole <peter_cole@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >>>
> >> What's wrong with the (plain old) real steel ones? I have a couple, the
> >> seem to work better than the plastic, mostly because they're thinner.
> >> I've never broken one of either type, though.
> >
> > Because they gouge aluminum rims?
> >
>
> I've used them on exclusively aluminum rims since the 60's and I haven't
> noticed that.
Then steel it is!
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 19 Jul 2007 16:33:18
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
Peter Cole <peter_cole@comcast.net > wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
>> jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>>> It takes people from the low tech bicycle business to come up with
>>> this dumb idea. Putting a strip of sheet metal in the neutral axis of
>>> a plastic lever weakens the device because there are two additional
>>> weak shear planes created by the interface, beside the sheet metal
>>> adding no more bending stiffness than a bare piece of ... sheet metal,
>>
>> That was essentially the conclusion I came to. I would think it would
>> have been better to plasti-coat a real steel tire lever. Of course, I
>> couldn't tell how they'd built it until I broke it open.
>
> What's wrong with the (plain old) real steel ones? I have a couple, the
> seem to work better than the plastic, mostly because they're thinner.
> I've never broken one of either type, though.
Nobody sells them?
By that I mean in local bike shops (that I've seen anyway). I keep
meaning to pick up a pair from mail order.
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
Shaw's Principle:
Build a system that even a fool can use, and only a fool will
want to use it.
|
| | | | |
Date: 28 Jun 2007 00:23:07
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
In article
<rcousine-1DC2EE.17414827062007@news.telus.net >,
Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <u6m383dll0dbaf566jvpua8jqlbd7mn5ap@4ax.com>,
> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 03:17:50 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >In article <tjj3839epuredfmrdhq3qq3m9oq1g9m7v3@4ax.com>,
> > > carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> > >
> > >> In another thread, Bill Bushnell posted a link to a chain failure
> > >> picture. I followed the bread crumbs and found that he has a nicely
> > >> done gallery of busted bike stuff:
> > >>
> > >> http://bushnell.homeip.net/~bill/bike/pictures/broken_bike_parts/index.html
> > >>
> > >> Cheers,
> > >>
> > >> Carl Fogel
> > >
> > >I see he gets about as much life out of his tire levers as I do out of
> > >mine. They're just completely a wear item, eh?
> >
> > Dear Ryan,
> >
> > Well, bicycle tire irons like the dainty one second from the left in
> > this picture are probably consumables for riders with tight beads on
> > small rims:
> >
> > http://i15.tinypic.com/4uvil2v.jpg
> >
> > The black 22-inch iron is used for arguing with motorcycle tires. it's
> > a bit large for a seat pack, but a bicycle rim will break before that
> > tire iron does.
>
> I always just used a screwdriver when I was into mounting my own
> motorcycle tires (a conceit from a time when I rode an FZR400, which
> meant I rode the plentiful and cheap racer take-offs I bought from the
> racers).
>
> Why yes, my bike did have gouged-up rim beads, why do you ask?
>
> I get maybe a dozen or two uses out of my tire levers on the bicycle
> side. I think the record was a Crank Bros Speedlever that lasted about
> three uses, but others have been nearly as bad.
>
> I would consider a nice metal one, but I like my current rims. Will wait
> to hear more from the Soma users.
I have a set of twenty-five year old steel levers in
continuous use. It's time to throw them away and
purchase a set of current levers, up-to-date for
today's cycling. Holding on to the past is for
retro-grouches, and we know what a miserable lot of
sorry old bastards they are.
--
Michael Press
|
| | | | | |
Date: 28 Jun 2007 12:55:16
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
>>>> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>>>> In another thread, Bill Bushnell posted a link to a chain failure
>>>>> picture. I followed the bread crumbs and found that he has a nicely
>>>>> done gallery of busted bike stuff:
>>>>> http://bushnell.homeip.net/~bill/bike/pictures/broken_bike_parts/index.html
> Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca> wrote:
>>>> I see he gets about as much life out of his tire levers as I do out of
>>>> mine. They're just completely a wear item, eh?
>> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>> Well, bicycle tire irons like the dainty one second from the left in
>>> this picture are probably consumables for riders with tight beads on
>>> small rims:
>>> http://i15.tinypic.com/4uvil2v.jpg
>>> The black 22-inch iron is used for arguing with motorcycle tires. it's
>>> a bit large for a seat pack, but a bicycle rim will break before that
>>> tire iron does.
> Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca> wrote:
>> I always just used a screwdriver when I was into mounting my own
>> motorcycle tires (a conceit from a time when I rode an FZR400, which
>> meant I rode the plentiful and cheap racer take-offs I bought from the
>> racers).
>> Why yes, my bike did have gouged-up rim beads, why do you ask?
>> I get maybe a dozen or two uses out of my tire levers on the bicycle
>> side. I think the record was a Crank Bros Speedlever that lasted about
>> three uses, but others have been nearly as bad.
>> I would consider a nice metal one, but I like my current rims. Will wait
>> to hear more from the Soma users.
Michael Press wrote:
> I have a set of twenty-five year old steel levers in
> continuous use. It's time to throw them away and
> purchase a set of current levers, up-to-date for
> today's cycling. Holding on to the past is for
> retro-grouches, and we know what a miserable lot of
> sorry old bastards they are.
Yeah, odd discussion. My own (30+ years) and other mechanics' levers
here are stamped with initials, bent/filed to one mechanic's taste, a
permanent personal thing. Definitely not 'disposable' or fragile. I
still personally change from 5 to ten tires a day and at one time
changed a lot of them every day. No obvious wear beyond patina.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 19:03:16
From:
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
Andrew Muzi writes
>> I have a set of twenty-five year old steel levers in continuous
>> use. It's time to throw them away and purchase a set of current
>> levers, up-to-date for today's cycling. Holding on to the past is
>> for retro-grouches, and we know what a miserable lot of sorry old
>> bastards they are.
> Yeah, odd discussion. My own (30+ years) and other mechanics'
> levers here are stamped with initials, bent/filed to one mechanic's
> taste, a permanent personal thing. Definitely not 'disposable' or
> fragile. I still personally change from 5 to ten tires a day and at
> one time changed a lot of them every day. No obvious wear beyond
> patina.
I've gotten along with the same plastic tire levers for many years and
enough flats although I have had to replace them a couple of times. I
know that I cannot let others use them because chances are that they
will be broken while metal ones will be bent to uselessness. Using
tire levers is a skill that can be learned and doing so allows us to
carry two lightweight plastic ones. I am surprised how many folks
believe that tire levers they have used successfully, arbitrarily fail
subsequently through no fault of theirs.
When a rider asks to use my tire levers, I offer to remove or mount
the tire for them rather than sacrifice mine for the cause.
Jobst Brandt
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Date: 29 Jun 2007 19:13:25
From: Bill Bushnell
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
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jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> When a rider asks to use my tire levers, I offer to remove or mount
> the tire for them rather than sacrifice mine for the cause.
Then maybe someday we'll meet up while I'm fixing a rear flat and you can have a
go.
A new Ritchey Tom Slick 1.4 w/kevlar bead on a Ritchey Pro OCR rim (w/Velox tape)
is an extremely tight fit. Even after the beads are resting in the rim bed with
the tire uninflated, it can only be rotated relative to the rim with great
difficulty. Initial installation requires iron irons, a VAR portable tool, or a
Koolstop shop lever. As the tire ages, it becomes possible to mount and remove
with plastic levers, but it's never easy.
Iron irons tend to pinch the tube or mar the rim, the VAR plastic tire lever is a
good on-bike tool, but does wear out if called upon too many times. The Koolstop
lever is a bit large to carry around, and it doesn't remove tires, but I usually
carry it until I am convinced I can get the tire back on with a lesser tool. The
best compromise I've found are plastic-coated irons that someone posted a picture
of elsewhere. These work well as long as I can get the the blunt tip of the lever
under the bead when unmounting the tire.
--
Bill Bushnell
http://pobox.com/~bushnell/
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 22:57:24
From: G.T.
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> In article <u6m383dll0dbaf566jvpua8jqlbd7mn5ap@4ax.com>,
> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 03:17:50 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <tjj3839epuredfmrdhq3qq3m9oq1g9m7v3@4ax.com>,
>>> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>>
>>>> In another thread, Bill Bushnell posted a link to a chain failure
>>>> picture. I followed the bread crumbs and found that he has a nicely
>>>> done gallery of busted bike stuff:
>>>>
>>>> http://bushnell.homeip.net/~bill/bike/pictures/broken_bike_parts/index.html
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Carl Fogel
>>> I see he gets about as much life out of his tire levers as I do out of
>>> mine. They're just completely a wear item, eh?
>> Dear Ryan,
>>
>> Well, bicycle tire irons like the dainty one second from the left in
>> this picture are probably consumables for riders with tight beads on
>> small rims:
>>
>> http://i15.tinypic.com/4uvil2v.jpg
>>
>> The black 22-inch iron is used for arguing with motorcycle tires. it's
>> a bit large for a seat pack, but a bicycle rim will break before that
>> tire iron does.
>
> I always just used a screwdriver when I was into mounting my own
> motorcycle tires (a conceit from a time when I rode an FZR400, which
> meant I rode the plentiful and cheap racer take-offs I bought from the
> racers).
>
> Why yes, my bike did have gouged-up rim beads, why do you ask?
>
> I get maybe a dozen or two uses out of my tire levers on the bicycle
> side. I think the record was a Crank Bros Speedlever that lasted about
> three uses, but others have been nearly as bad.
>
> I would consider a nice metal one, but I like my current rims. Will wait
> to hear more from the Soma users.
>
What are these tire levers about which everyone is speaking? My fingers
sure haven't ever gouged my beautiful 630, 622, or 559 rims.
Greg
--
http://ticketmastersucks.org
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 20:52:29
From:
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 00:41:46 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca >
wrote:
>In article <u6m383dll0dbaf566jvpua8jqlbd7mn5ap@4ax.com>,
> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 03:17:50 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <tjj3839epuredfmrdhq3qq3m9oq1g9m7v3@4ax.com>,
>> > carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>> >
>> >> In another thread, Bill Bushnell posted a link to a chain failure
>> >> picture. I followed the bread crumbs and found that he has a nicely
>> >> done gallery of busted bike stuff:
>> >>
>> >> http://bushnell.homeip.net/~bill/bike/pictures/broken_bike_parts/index.html
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >>
>> >> Carl Fogel
>> >
>> >I see he gets about as much life out of his tire levers as I do out of
>> >mine. They're just completely a wear item, eh?
>>
>> Dear Ryan,
>>
>> Well, bicycle tire irons like the dainty one second from the left in
>> this picture are probably consumables for riders with tight beads on
>> small rims:
>>
>> http://i15.tinypic.com/4uvil2v.jpg
>>
>> The black 22-inch iron is used for arguing with motorcycle tires. it's
>> a bit large for a seat pack, but a bicycle rim will break before that
>> tire iron does.
>
>I always just used a screwdriver when I was into mounting my own
>motorcycle tires (a conceit from a time when I rode an FZR400, which
>meant I rode the plentiful and cheap racer take-offs I bought from the
>racers).
>
>Why yes, my bike did have gouged-up rim beads, why do you ask?
[snip]
Dear Ryan,
Everything black . . . fuzzy . . . where am I?
Never mind, I'm all right.
You were discussing the practical uses of screwdrivers when something
came over me and the screen began to blur in front of my eyes.
In a pinch (as a friend fond of puns once suggested), why not try a
long-handled garden shovel?
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 00:27:56
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Broken bike parts gallery
|
In article
<2586839nnfujobp9ogvg5fjie5enptmc0s@4ax.com >,
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 00:41:46 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <u6m383dll0dbaf566jvpua8jqlbd7mn5ap@4ax.com>,
> > carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 03:17:50 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article <tjj3839epuredfmrdhq3qq3m9oq1g9m7v3@4ax.com>,
> >> > carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> In another thread, Bill Bushnell posted a link to a chain failure
> >> >> picture. I followed the bread crumbs and found that he has a nicely
> >> >> done gallery of busted bike stuff:
> >> >>
> >> >> http://bushnell.homeip.net/~bill/bike/pictures/broken_bike_parts/index.html
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers,
> >> >>
> >> >> Carl Fogel
> >> >
> >> >I see he gets about as much life out of his tire levers as I do out of
> >> >mine. They're just completely a wear item, eh?
> >>
> >> Dear Ryan,
> >>
> >> Well, bicycle tire irons like the dainty one second from the left in
> >> this picture are probably consumables for riders with tight beads on
> >> small rims:
> >>
> >> http://i15.tinypic.com/4uvil2v.jpg
> >>
> >> The black 22-inch iron is used for arguing with motorcycle tires. it's
> >> a bit large for a seat pack, but a bicycle rim will break before that
> >> tire iron does.
> >
> >I always just used a screwdriver when I was into mounting my own
> >motorcycle tires (a conceit from a time when I rode an FZR400, which
> >meant I rode the plentiful and cheap racer take-offs I bought from the
> >racers).
> >
> >Why yes, my bike did have gouged-up rim beads, why do you ask?
>
> [snip]
>
> Dear Ryan,
>
> Everything black . . . fuzzy . . . where am I?
>
> Never mind, I'm all right.
>
> You were discussing the practical uses of screwdrivers when something
> came over me and the screen began to blur in front of my eyes.
>
> In a pinch (as a friend fond of puns once suggested), why not try a
> long-handled garden shovel?
Why not? Because you will break the wooden handle
or collapse the thin metal of the working end.
I am surprised I have to explain this.
You will have much better luck with a pick mattock.
--
Michael Press
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