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Main
Date: 07 Nov 2007 09:47:56
From:
Subject: Campy compatibility
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Hi,
I like to get a spare wheel/tire to swap when I use my trainer, I seem
to be getting a decent amount of wear on my tires form using the
trainer.
It goes without saying that I like a cheap wheel for it. My bike holds
2007 Campy Veloce CT parts and a C10 ultra narrow chain.
I tried looking this up but according to Campy using anything but the
same elements from 1 groupset is almost unforgivable. I assume they
like selling parts. I swapped in my wife's wheel which is set up with
a no-name 9 speed cassette for use on a 9sp Xenon group, that seemed
to work.
My question is: what is the deal here, can I use a different kind of
cassette from like SRAM even if it is 9 speed? Would that wear my 10sp
narrow chain? I don't need super smooth shifting so I don't even mind
not having the ultra-drive feature on that cassette...
Advice ?
Thanks!
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Date: 14 Nov 2007 13:05:11
From:
Subject: Re: Campy compatibility
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On Nov 9, 9:14 pm, Paul Kopit <pko...@att.net > wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 15:29:05 -0000, webh...@telenet.be wrote:
> >Well it's reasonably clear that economics are a prime factor. I'm not
> >planning on paying much for my swap/trainer wheel. I don't have a
> >spare lying around but I might go second hand shopping for an old used
> >wheel somewhere. I found an 8 speed campy wheel/hub for around 30$ but
> >I assume that's not compatible.
>
> If you have an additional 8sp cog in the proper range, you can respace
> the cassette and get 9 cogs x Shimano spaced on. I think that the
> Campy 8sp cogs are 1.9 mm. If you use Campy 10sp x 2.4 mm spacers you
> come up to 4.3, which is Shimano 9sp and 10 sp Campy shifters will
> shift that.
>
> I haven't done this. I would try 2.0 freewheel spacers with the 1.9
> cogs. You'd need an additional spacer ~1 mm before putting on cogs.
> That would bring you up to 3.9 mm, Shimano 10 spacing. I regularly
> use an older Campy 8sp rear derailleur and that shifts 3.9 aOK.
That's a good idea, I might just respace that. I just checked out what
a new setup would cost me at my bike shop. About 95$ for campy Khamsim
set (promo) + 30$ for a Tacx training tire + 50$ for a 10sp cassette.
That totals at 175$ just for a trainer-swap wheel, a bit over the top
if you ask me.
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Date: 07 Nov 2007 17:57:20
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Campy compatibility
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On Nov 7, 7:49 am, webh...@telenet.be wrote:
> On Nov 7, 4:37 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 7, 7:29 am, webh...@telenet.be wrote:
>
> > > Well it's reasonably clear that economics are a prime factor. I'm not
> > > planning on paying much for my swap/trainer wheel. I don't have a
> > > spare lying around but I might go second hand shopping for an old used
> > > wheel somewhere. I found an 8 speed campy wheel/hub for around 30$ but
> > > I assume that's not compatible.
>
> > That's correct.
>
> > I too can report that Shimano 9s cassettes shift fine with C10
> > systems, you just need to set the first position on the small cog, and
> > set the limit screws to lock out the last click.
>
> > Personally, I'd stick with 10s chain, as the RD cage plates on a 10s
> > are closer together. I used a 10s RD on an otherwise 9s system, and
> > the chain was noisy enough going through the pulleys to make me
> > worried stuff was scraping. 10s chain quieted it right up, and I wound
> > up switching to 10s on that bike soon, anyway.
>
> Is it possible to discard a cog and make a workable wheel by using 9
> speed or 10 speed cogs on the 8 speed hub ?
> In other words, can I convert an 8 speed wheel to work with a 10 speed
> setup (at the price of sacrificing some gears)?
>
> It's good to know that shimano 9sp works as well, that broadens my
> second hands buy criteria.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Not on a Campy 8-speed hub - those have a different spline pattern
than the 9/10 ones. On Shimano, 8/9/10 speed hubs are all the same
thing (well, there are some 10-speed-only hubs, but that's a different
story).
So your cheapest option is to get any 8/9/10 spaced Shimano wheel and
get a 9-speed Shimano or SRAM cassette, adjust your limit screws and
cable, and go ride.
FWIW, the SRAM PG-950 12-25 cassette I had on an Ultegra 6500 hub
shifted better than the American Classic 12-2510-speed conversion
cassette I got to replace it, with an otherwise 2007 Veloce 10s setup
(including chain). I just didn't have an 18t cog on the SRAM, and I
can't say I noticed.
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Date: 07 Nov 2007 08:37:53
From: Colin Campbell
Subject: Re: Campy compatibility
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webhead@telenet.be wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I like to get a spare wheel/tire to swap when I use my trainer, I seem
> to be getting a decent amount of wear on my tires form using the
> trainer.
>
> It goes without saying that I like a cheap wheel for it. My bike holds
> 2007 Campy Veloce CT parts and a C10 ultra narrow chain.
>
> I tried looking this up but according to Campy using anything but the
> same elements from 1 groupset is almost unforgivable. I assume they
> like selling parts. I swapped in my wife's wheel which is set up with
> a no-name 9 speed cassette for use on a 9sp Xenon group, that seemed
> to work.
>
> My question is: what is the deal here, can I use a different kind of
> cassette from like SRAM even if it is 9 speed? Would that wear my 10sp
> narrow chain? I don't need super smooth shifting so I don't even mind
> not having the ultra-drive feature on that cassette...
>
> Advice ?
> Thanks!
>
Two of my friends who use a trainer showed me the rear wheel they use.
It has a special tire (perhaps solid?) that is designed for use with a
trainer. I don't know the brand, or where they bought it, or how much
it cost, but it is a bright orange color - you would notice it right
away if you had it on when you went out for a road ride.
If you have a spare wheel, this could be a solution for you.
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Date: 07 Nov 2007 22:45:19
From: A R:nen
Subject: Re: Campy compatibility
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Colin Campbell <cmcampb@adelphia.net > writes:
> Two of my friends who use a trainer showed me the rear wheel they use.
> It has a special tire (perhaps solid?) that is designed for use with a
> trainer. I don't know the brand, or where they bought it, or how much
> it cost, but it is a bright orange color - you would notice it right
> away if you had it on when you went out for a road ride.
At least Continental and Tacx make such tires (ordinary foldable
clinchers). The big plus is that there is no patch of black (or
indeed any) rubber dust on the floor after trainering. Stands to
reason that as a consequence it should last a lot longer as well,
but my trainer use is way too infrequent to notice such things.
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Date: 07 Nov 2007 15:49:29
From:
Subject: Re: Campy compatibility
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On Nov 7, 4:37 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net > wrote:
> On Nov 7, 7:29 am, webh...@telenet.be wrote:
>
> > Well it's reasonably clear that economics are a prime factor. I'm not
> > planning on paying much for my swap/trainer wheel. I don't have a
> > spare lying around but I might go second hand shopping for an old used
> > wheel somewhere. I found an 8 speed campy wheel/hub for around 30$ but
> > I assume that's not compatible.
>
> That's correct.
>
> I too can report that Shimano 9s cassettes shift fine with C10
> systems, you just need to set the first position on the small cog, and
> set the limit screws to lock out the last click.
>
> Personally, I'd stick with 10s chain, as the RD cage plates on a 10s
> are closer together. I used a 10s RD on an otherwise 9s system, and
> the chain was noisy enough going through the pulleys to make me
> worried stuff was scraping. 10s chain quieted it right up, and I wound
> up switching to 10s on that bike soon, anyway.
Is it possible to discard a cog and make a workable wheel by using 9
speed or 10 speed cogs on the 8 speed hub ?
In other words, can I convert an 8 speed wheel to work with a 10 speed
setup (at the price of sacrificing some gears)?
It's good to know that shimano 9sp works as well, that broadens my
second hands buy criteria.
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Date: 07 Nov 2007 17:12:50
From: Nigel Cliffe
Subject: Re: Campy compatibility
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webhead@telenet.be wrote:
> On Nov 7, 4:37 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>> On Nov 7, 7:29 am, webh...@telenet.be wrote:
>>
>>> Well it's reasonably clear that economics are a prime factor. I'm
>>> not planning on paying much for my swap/trainer wheel. I don't have
>>> a spare lying around but I might go second hand shopping for an old
>>> used wheel somewhere. I found an 8 speed campy wheel/hub for around
>>> 30$ but I assume that's not compatible.
>>
>> That's correct.
>>
>> I too can report that Shimano 9s cassettes shift fine with C10
>> systems, you just need to set the first position on the small cog,
>> and set the limit screws to lock out the last click.
>>
>> Personally, I'd stick with 10s chain, as the RD cage plates on a 10s
>> are closer together. I used a 10s RD on an otherwise 9s system, and
>> the chain was noisy enough going through the pulleys to make me
>> worried stuff was scraping. 10s chain quieted it right up, and I
>> wound up switching to 10s on that bike soon, anyway.
>
> Is it possible to discard a cog and make a workable wheel by using 9
> speed or 10 speed cogs on the 8 speed hub ?
> In other words, can I convert an 8 speed wheel to work with a 10 speed
> setup (at the price of sacrificing some gears)?
>
> It's good to know that shimano 9sp works as well, that broadens my
> second hands buy criteria.
I'm not convinced by the 9sp Shimano case, it probably works by the
tollerance built into the systems (all jockey wheels have some side float in
them ).
Shimano 8 should work very well with Campagnolo 10 speed shifters:
http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946
I'd trust the author as one of the better UK technical experts on bicycle
bits.
That shows a Shimano 8 system pulls the same cable as a Campagnolo 10.
It also shows a Shimano 9 working with a Campagnolo 10 shifter if the cable
routing is changed on the rear derraileur (so called Hubbub routing).
But you'd still need to setup the derailleur stops and align the indexing
when the wheel was swapped from the road "10" to the trainer "8" or "9". If
you're happy with that fiddling each time, its fine, but otherwise I'd still
get a 10 speed wheel.
- Nigel
--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/
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Date: 07 Nov 2007 10:42:39
From: Pete Grey
Subject: Re: Campy compatibility
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I've actually ridden many thousands of miles with the
Shimano-hub/Campy-9-ergo setup.
It works fine, with the tolerance you mention that's in the system by
default.
I've done this due to good buys on Shimano wheels, etc. Currently I'm back
on a Campy 9-speed hub on my rain bike, but wouldn't hesitate to use a
Shimano-spaced hub next round, if that's what comes along....
Being wary of this is natural IMO, but if you've done it once you know just
how well it works;-]
-pete
"Nigel Cliffe" <me@privacy.net > wrote in message
news:fgsrmg$hhc$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> webhead@telenet.be wrote:
>> On Nov 7, 4:37 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>>> On Nov 7, 7:29 am, webh...@telenet.be wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well it's reasonably clear that economics are a prime factor. I'm
>>>> not planning on paying much for my swap/trainer wheel. I don't have
>>>> a spare lying around but I might go second hand shopping for an old
>>>> used wheel somewhere. I found an 8 speed campy wheel/hub for around
>>>> 30$ but I assume that's not compatible.
>>>
>>> That's correct.
>>>
>>> I too can report that Shimano 9s cassettes shift fine with C10
>>> systems, you just need to set the first position on the small cog,
>>> and set the limit screws to lock out the last click.
>>>
>>> Personally, I'd stick with 10s chain, as the RD cage plates on a 10s
>>> are closer together. I used a 10s RD on an otherwise 9s system, and
>>> the chain was noisy enough going through the pulleys to make me
>>> worried stuff was scraping. 10s chain quieted it right up, and I
>>> wound up switching to 10s on that bike soon, anyway.
>>
>> Is it possible to discard a cog and make a workable wheel by using 9
>> speed or 10 speed cogs on the 8 speed hub ?
>> In other words, can I convert an 8 speed wheel to work with a 10 speed
>> setup (at the price of sacrificing some gears)?
>>
>> It's good to know that shimano 9sp works as well, that broadens my
>> second hands buy criteria.
>
>
> I'm not convinced by the 9sp Shimano case, it probably works by the
> tollerance built into the systems (all jockey wheels have some side float
> in them ).
>
> Shimano 8 should work very well with Campagnolo 10 speed shifters:
> http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946
> I'd trust the author as one of the better UK technical experts on bicycle
> bits.
>
> That shows a Shimano 8 system pulls the same cable as a Campagnolo 10.
> It also shows a Shimano 9 working with a Campagnolo 10 shifter if the
> cable routing is changed on the rear derraileur (so called Hubbub
> routing).
>
> But you'd still need to setup the derailleur stops and align the indexing
> when the wheel was swapped from the road "10" to the trainer "8" or "9".
> If you're happy with that fiddling each time, its fine, but otherwise I'd
> still get a 10 speed wheel.
>
>
>
> - Nigel
>
>
>
>
> --
> Nigel Cliffe,
> Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/
>
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Date: 07 Nov 2007 07:37:26
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Campy compatibility
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On Nov 7, 7:29 am, webh...@telenet.be wrote:
> Well it's reasonably clear that economics are a prime factor. I'm not
> planning on paying much for my swap/trainer wheel. I don't have a
> spare lying around but I might go second hand shopping for an old used
> wheel somewhere. I found an 8 speed campy wheel/hub for around 30$ but
> I assume that's not compatible.
That's correct.
I too can report that Shimano 9s cassettes shift fine with C10
systems, you just need to set the first position on the small cog, and
set the limit screws to lock out the last click.
Personally, I'd stick with 10s chain, as the RD cage plates on a 10s
are closer together. I used a 10s RD on an otherwise 9s system, and
the chain was noisy enough going through the pulleys to make me
worried stuff was scraping. 10s chain quieted it right up, and I wound
up switching to 10s on that bike soon, anyway.
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Date: 07 Nov 2007 15:29:05
From:
Subject: Re: Campy compatibility
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Well it's reasonably clear that economics are a prime factor. I'm not
planning on paying much for my swap/trainer wheel. I don't have a
spare lying around but I might go second hand shopping for an old used
wheel somewhere. I found an 8 speed campy wheel/hub for around 30$ but
I assume that's not compatible.
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Date: 09 Nov 2007 20:14:54
From: Paul Kopit
Subject: Re: Campy compatibility
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On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 15:29:05 -0000, webhead@telenet.be wrote:
>Well it's reasonably clear that economics are a prime factor. I'm not
>planning on paying much for my swap/trainer wheel. I don't have a
>spare lying around but I might go second hand shopping for an old used
>wheel somewhere. I found an 8 speed campy wheel/hub for around 30$ but
>I assume that's not compatible.
If you have an additional 8sp cog in the proper range, you can respace
the cassette and get 9 cogs x Shimano spaced on. I think that the
Campy 8sp cogs are 1.9 mm. If you use Campy 10sp x 2.4 mm spacers you
come up to 4.3, which is Shimano 9sp and 10 sp Campy shifters will
shift that.
I haven't done this. I would try 2.0 freewheel spacers with the 1.9
cogs. You'd need an additional spacer ~1 mm before putting on cogs.
That would bring you up to 3.9 mm, Shimano 10 spacing. I regularly
use an older Campy 8sp rear derailleur and that shifts 3.9 aOK.
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Date: 07 Nov 2007 14:26:34
From: Paul Kopit
Subject: Re: Campy compatibility
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On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 09:47:56 -0000, webhead@telenet.be wrote:
>My question is: what is the deal here, can I use a different kind of
>cassette from like SRAM even if it is 9 speed? Would that wear my 10sp
>narrow chain? I don't need super smooth shifting so I don't even mind
>not having the ultra-drive feature on that cassette...
I use Shimano 9sp cassettes with my Campy 10 frequently. Exclusively,
on my tour/round town bicycle. 9 or 10 speed chain doesn't matter.
The cog thickness is a 1.7 mm Shimano and 1.8 mm Campy. I notice zero
difference in chain wear. The only reason I use 9sp chain on my
tourer is that it is less costly. I also theorize that the wider
chain will push over easier and the movement of the Campy shifter is
just a tad too little.
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Date: 07 Nov 2007 14:11:36
From: Nigel Cliffe
Subject: Re: Campy compatibility
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webhead@telenet.be wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I like to get a spare wheel/tire to swap when I use my trainer, I seem
> to be getting a decent amount of wear on my tires form using the
> trainer.
>
> It goes without saying that I like a cheap wheel for it. My bike holds
> 2007 Campy Veloce CT parts and a C10 ultra narrow chain.
>
> I tried looking this up but according to Campy using anything but the
> same elements from 1 groupset is almost unforgivable. I assume they
> like selling parts. I swapped in my wife's wheel which is set up with
> a no-name 9 speed cassette for use on a 9sp Xenon group, that seemed
> to work.
>
> My question is: what is the deal here, can I use a different kind of
> cassette from like SRAM even if it is 9 speed? Would that wear my 10sp
> narrow chain? I don't need super smooth shifting so I don't even mind
> not having the ultra-drive feature on that cassette...
Assuming you want gear changing to work with minimal hassles/research, then
any Campagnolo 10-speed cassette will do, on any suitable hub. Can be the
cheapest ones going - Xenon/Mirage these days.
If gear changing not required, then almost any fairly narrow tooth cassette
will work, but you will need to diddle the gear shift adjusters to line the
chain up. Not sure why I'd bother with this option unless I had spare
wheel/cassette/etc. lying in shed.
If gear shifting is required, and want to do the research, then other
combinations may work. Most of the published tables show mixing Campagnolo
shifters with Shimano Derailleurs and Cassettes, whereas you just want to
mix the cassette.
- Nigel
--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/
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