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Main
Date: 14 Oct 2007 15:48:51
From: graham
Subject: Climbing gears
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Just starting to plan for doing the La Marmotte in France next year - 174km
taking in the col du Glandon, col du Galiber and finishing with the climb up
to Alpe d'Huez. Currently I have a Shimano Ultegra groupset with a 53/39
octalink chainset. My lowest geared cassette is a 12-27 giving a bottom gear
of 37.7. Having studied the race profile I am thinking about taking
something a bit lower just to be on the safe side. Alpe d'Huez with 160km
(100 miles) in my legs looks a bit daunting.
My initial thoughts are either a triple 52/42/30 which would get me down to
29 with my 12-27 or sticking with the 53/39 and going for a 12-34 cassette
to give 29.9.
I would welcome any advice on the most economical way to go. Mostly this
comes down to what will work with what. E.g. will a triple fit on my current
bottom bracket. Can I cut the cost by using a 105 or perhaps a lower spec (I
doubt if I'll use the kit for more than one or two of these adventures).
Will my current Ultegra front mech shift a triple. What rear mech can I get
to shift a 12-34 and if not Ultegra will it be compatible with my Ultegra
STIs etc
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Date: 18 Oct 2007 06:23:01
From: russellseaton1@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
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On Oct 18, 2:14 am, Adam Kadlubek <uzurpato...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On 18 Pa , 07:04, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Not necessarily. Remember, power is torque multiplied by rotational
> > velocity. Therefore, if Jobst is pedaling at 40 rpm in a 50-inch gear
> > and Lance is pedaling at 100 rpm in a 40-inch gear, Lance is developing
> > twice the power of Jobst.
>
> Both develop the same power. Jobst at 50rpm produces twice the torque
> of Lance at 100rpm.
>
> --
> Adam Kadlubek
I don't think you saw the numbers correctly. At 100 rpm in a 40"
gear, Lance is climbing at 11.9 mph. At 40 rpm in a 50" gear Jobst is
climbing at 7.4 mph. I thought power was the ability to move
something, more or less. Jobst does weigh more than Lance. But that
4.5 mph difference has to be mostly due to more power developed by
Lance.
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Date: 18 Oct 2007 05:11:57
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
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On Oct 18, 2:21 am, "Lou Holtman" <lholremovet...@oce.nl > wrote:
> "Adam Kadlubek" <uzurpato...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1192691658.956375.198140@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On 18 Pa , 07:04, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Not necessarily. Remember, power is torque multiplied by rotational
> > > velocity. Therefore, if Jobst is pedaling at 40 rpm in a 50-inch gear
> > > and Lance is pedaling at 100 rpm in a 40-inch gear, Lance is developing
> > > twice the power of Jobst.
>
> > Both develop the same power. Jobst at 50rpm produces twice the torque
> > of Lance at 100rpm.
>
> > --
> > Adam Kadlubek
>
> Wow, Jobst can climb the Alpe d'Huez in the same time as Lance?
> Impressive.
>
>
That's nothing! Baron Munchhausen rode a cannonball and also took a
trip to the moon.
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Date: 18 Oct 2007 03:53:11
From:
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
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On Oct 14, 4:48 pm, "graham" <h2gt2g42-n...@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> Just starting to plan for doing the La Marmotte in France next year - 174km
> taking in the col du Glandon, col du Galiber and finishing with the climb up
> to Alpe d'Huez. Currently I have a Shimano Ultegra groupset with a 53/39
> octalink chainset. My lowest geared cassette is a 12-27 giving a bottom gear
> of 37.7. Having studied the race profile I am thinking about taking
> something a bit lower just to be on the safe side. Alpe d'Huez with 160km
> (100 miles) in my legs looks a bit daunting.
>
> My initial thoughts are either a triple 52/42/30 which would get me down to
> 29 with my 12-27 or sticking with the 53/39 and going for a 12-34 cassette
> to give 29.9.
>
> I would welcome any advice on the most economical way to go. Mostly this
> comes down to what will work with what. E.g. will a triple fit on my current
> bottom bracket. Can I cut the cost by using a 105 or perhaps a lower spec (I
> doubt if I'll use the kit for more than one or two of these adventures).
> Will my current Ultegra front mech shift a triple. What rear mech can I get
> to shift a 12-34 and if not Ultegra will it be compatible with my Ultegra
> STIs etc
Personally I like the idea of a compact double: lighter, simpler and
still gives a good spread of gears. With a 48-34 you can keep your
current derailleurs and cluster and still have a nice low of 34 gear
inches. If this is not sufficient, you can get a cluster with a 30 or
32 tooth big cog, which might be stretching the derailleur's capacity
somewhat. When you are done touring, you simply switch to a closely
spaced 12-21 or 12-23 cassette. I don't know why more road bikes
aren't set up this way.
My current bike is also set up in this way with a 12-32 eight speed
cluster which provides a 28.7 inch low. Even with 14.5 kg of bicycle
and 15.9 kg luggage (not including food, water and fuel) it got me up
all the hills I encountered in central Germany. Nothing of the scale
of the alps, but lots of hills nonetheless.
I would also tend to agree with Jobst that there is no substitute for
good conditioning and if you are carrying little or no luggage, your
current spread might well be adequate. I have also used the same
cluster with a 52-42 in the front which gives a 35 inch low. Also
with a full touring load, (no camping gear this time) this got me up
all the hills I encountered in East and South Germany, though again,
nothing of the scale of the Alps. BTW, I used a Shimano 600 rear
derailleur (although an older, non index model) and it handled the
wide spread of cogs just fine. I have a Campy long-cage mech on my
current set-up, but I don't know why I didn't try it with the
original, short-cage derailleur. It probably would've worked just
fine.
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Date: 18 Oct 2007 00:14:18
From: Adam Kadlubek
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
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On 18 Pa , 07:04, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Not necessarily. Remember, power is torque multiplied by rotational
> velocity. Therefore, if Jobst is pedaling at 40 rpm in a 50-inch gear
> and Lance is pedaling at 100 rpm in a 40-inch gear, Lance is developing
> twice the power of Jobst.
Both develop the same power. Jobst at 50rpm produces twice the torque
of Lance at 100rpm.
--
Adam Kadlubek
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Date: 18 Oct 2007 09:21:23
From: Lou Holtman
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
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"Adam Kadlubek" <uzurpatorex@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1192691658.956375.198140@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On 18 Pa , 07:04, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Not necessarily. Remember, power is torque multiplied by rotational
> > velocity. Therefore, if Jobst is pedaling at 40 rpm in a 50-inch gear
> > and Lance is pedaling at 100 rpm in a 40-inch gear, Lance is developing
> > twice the power of Jobst.
>
> Both develop the same power. Jobst at 50rpm produces twice the torque
> of Lance at 100rpm.
>
> --
> Adam Kadlubek
>
Wow, Jobst can climb the Alpe d'Huez in the same time as Lance?
Impressive.
Lou
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Date: 17 Oct 2007 08:28:36
From: bookieb
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
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On Oct 17, 3:56 pm, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu > wrote:
> <jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message
>
> news:4715387f$0$14100$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>
>
>
<snip >
> For
> long distance climbing, I stay seated with the higher cadence, and only on
> the steep grades do I get out of the saddle. I've also learned to pace
> myself and not push my limits.
> -tom
Agreed.
I now drop the gears at the bottom of the climb, before I need to,
set a comfortable cadence, stay in the saddle as much as possible, and
stay out of the red zone.
As I have a road triple, I never *have* to get out of the saddle, but
sometimes I will, just to stretch out and get of the saddle for 20-30
seconds, or to punch up around a hairpin bend or similar.
Lots of guys in my group pull away from me at the bottom of the climb,
but I'll catch and pass a fair proportion of them again about 2/3 of
the way to the top. Hare and tortoise...
Regards,
bookieb
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Date: 18 Oct 2007 00:10:48
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
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bookieb ??? wrote:
> On Oct 17, 3:56 pm, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>> <jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message
>>
>> news:4715387f$0$14100$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>>
>>
>>
> <snip>
>> For
>> long distance climbing, I stay seated with the higher cadence, and only on
>> the steep grades do I get out of the saddle. I've also learned to pace
>> myself and not push my limits.
>> -tom
>
> Agreed.
> I now drop the gears at the bottom of the climb, before I need to,
> set a comfortable cadence, stay in the saddle as much as possible, and
> stay out of the red zone.
>
> As I have a road triple, I never *have* to get out of the saddle, but
> sometimes I will, just to stretch out and get of the saddle for 20-30
> seconds, or to punch up around a hairpin bend or similar.
>
> Lots of guys in my group pull away from me at the bottom of the climb,
> but I'll catch and pass a fair proportion of them again about 2/3 of
> the way to the top. Hare and tortoise...
I have had the experience quite a few times of being passed on the
steeper portion of the slope, and then starting to gain on the same
riders once past the second point of inflection (where the slope starts
to decrease).
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!
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Date: 16 Oct 2007 19:14:51
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
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On Oct 16, 2:14 pm, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Anthony DeLorenzo writes:
> >> I agree. Given what everyone has said I think I am going to try a
> >> XT M770 11-34 cassette which runs 11 13 15 17 20 23 26 30 34 then
> >> if possible, which it appears to be, swap out the 11 and 13 for a
> >> 14 and 16 which will give me 14 15 16 17 20 23 26 30 34. Then
> >> couple this with a XT M771 (top normal) rear mech which I think
> >> will work ok with my Ultegra STIs.
> > I wouldn't take it for granted that you need a new rear derailleur.
> > I did a similar conversion for a friend who wanted lower gears
> > without moving to a triple, and I was able to get a short-cage 105
> > derailleur (rather old one, at that) to take up an 11-34 cassette.
> > It was basically maxed in the big-big and small-small combos, and I
> > had to tweak the b-screw and move the axle a little in the dropouts
> > to get the derailleur around the 34-tooth cog, but once it was set
> > up it worked without a hitch. You might at least try it before you
> > spring for a new derailleur.
>
> I don't get it. The Alps are no steeper (except Austria) than
> mountain roads in the USA. Just because famous bicycle races go over
> them, the passes are not as demanding as for instance Sonora Pass in
> the Sierra. Just use your usual touring gears and get in shape.
>
> > Personally, I would prefer a bigger range with an 11-34 cassette,
> > but of course it's a matter of personal preference.
>
> You don't need to pedal down these mountains, and you don't need to
> sprint at 30+mph in an 11t sprocket. I take it this isn't a UCI race.
>
> In a 39-34, getting to the top of the Stelvio from Prato could take
> all day.
Hey, if it means he gets to the top, who cares. But, with that said,
a 34 tooth cog is suspiciously large -- which is no big deal, but it
means giant jumps and some less than optimal gears in the rollers and
flats. This ride is happening next year, and if it were me, I would
go do something with similar mileage and lots of climbs and see what
worked for me (although I already know -- this is the fictitious
"me"). I'd hate to lug around a pie plate for one climb at the end of
the day if I did not have to -- particularly at the expense of my
beloved 13 and 19. -- Jay Beattie.
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Date: 18 Oct 2007 00:15:53
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
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Jay Beattie wrote:
> On Oct 16, 2:14 pm, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>> Anthony DeLorenzo writes:
>>>> I agree. Given what everyone has said I think I am going to try a
>>>> XT M770 11-34 cassette which runs 11 13 15 17 20 23 26 30 34 then
>>>> if possible, which it appears to be, swap out the 11 and 13 for a
>>>> 14 and 16 which will give me 14 15 16 17 20 23 26 30 34. Then
>>>> couple this with a XT M771 (top normal) rear mech which I think
>>>> will work ok with my Ultegra STIs.
>>> I wouldn't take it for granted that you need a new rear derailleur.
>>> I did a similar conversion for a friend who wanted lower gears
>>> without moving to a triple, and I was able to get a short-cage 105
>>> derailleur (rather old one, at that) to take up an 11-34 cassette.
>>> It was basically maxed in the big-big and small-small combos, and I
>>> had to tweak the b-screw and move the axle a little in the dropouts
>>> to get the derailleur around the 34-tooth cog, but once it was set
>>> up it worked without a hitch. You might at least try it before you
>>> spring for a new derailleur.
>> I don't get it. The Alps are no steeper (except Austria) than
>> mountain roads in the USA. Just because famous bicycle races go over
>> them, the passes are not as demanding as for instance Sonora Pass in
>> the Sierra. Just use your usual touring gears and get in shape.
>>
>>> Personally, I would prefer a bigger range with an 11-34 cassette,
>>> but of course it's a matter of personal preference.
>> You don't need to pedal down these mountains, and you don't need to
>> sprint at 30+mph in an 11t sprocket. I take it this isn't a UCI race.
>>
>> In a 39-34, getting to the top of the Stelvio from Prato could take
>> all day.
>
> Hey, if it means he gets to the top, who cares. But, with that said,
> a 34 tooth cog is suspiciously large -- which is no big deal, but it
> means giant jumps and some less than optimal gears in the rollers and
> flats. This ride is happening next year, and if it were me, I would
> go do something with similar mileage and lots of climbs and see what
> worked for me (although I already know -- this is the fictitious
> "me"). I'd hate to lug around a pie plate for one climb at the end of
> the day if I did not have to -- particularly at the expense of my
> beloved 13 and 19. -- Jay Beattie.
Well, people used to (and many still do) get by with 4 to 8 gears on a
cassette or freewheel. Why not use a cluster that is relatively tight
for the first 7 or 8 ratios, then has a low "bail out" gear? If one is
bogging down in the next to lowest gear, the large jump to the biggest
rear gear is not unwelcome in my experience (28T to 34T).
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!
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Date: 17 Oct 2007 02:31:34
From:
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
Jay Beattie writes:
>>>> I agree. Given what everyone has said I think I am going to try a
>>>> XT M770 11-34 cassette which runs 11 13 15 17 20 23 26 30 34 then
>>>> if possible, which it appears to be, swap out the 11 and 13 for a
>>>> 14 and 16 which will give me 14 15 16 17 20 23 26 30 34. Then
>>>> couple this with a XT M771 (top normal) rear mech which I think
>>>> will work ok with my Ultegra STIs.
>>> I wouldn't take it for granted that you need a new rear
>>> derailleur. I did a similar conversion for a friend who wanted
>>> lower gears without moving to a triple, and I was able to get a
>>> short-cage 105 derailleur (rather old one, at that) to take up an
>>> 11-34 cassette. It was basically maxed in the big-big and
>>> small-small combos, and I had to tweak the b-screw and move the
>>> axle a little in the dropouts to get the derailleur around the
>>> 34-tooth cog, but once it was set up it worked without a hitch.
>>> You might at least try it before you spring for a new derailleur.
>> I don't get it. The Alps are no steeper (except Austria) than
>> mountain roads in the USA. Just because famous bicycle races go
>> over them, the passes are not as demanding as for instance Sonora
>> Pass in the Sierra. Just use your usual touring gears and get in
>> shape.
>>> Personally, I would prefer a bigger range with an 11-34 cassette,
>>> but of course it's a matter of personal preference.
>> You don't need to pedal down these mountains, and you don't need to
>> sprint at 30+mph in an 11t sprocket. I take it this isn't a UCI
>> race.
>> In a 39-34, getting to the top of the Stelvio from Prato could take
>> all day.
> Hey, if it means he gets to the top, who cares. But, with that
> said, a 34 tooth cog is suspiciously large -- which is no big deal,
> but it means giant jumps and some less than optimal gears in the
> rollers and flats. This ride is happening next year, and if it were
> me, I would go do something with similar mileage and lots of climbs
> and see what worked for me (although I already know -- this is the
> fictitious "me"). I'd hate to lug around a pie plate for one climb
> at the end of the day if I did not have to -- particularly at the
> expense of my beloved 13 and 19. -- Jay Beattie.
Whom are you trying to protect, the bicycle or the rider. I see the
bicycle as a tool for the rider and he comes first, so I don't care if
engaging the gear to be ridden requires stopping for a moment. Just
the same, I don't believe one should select gears for "just in case".
We aren't teenagers anymore and should be aware of our capabilities by
now. As I said, get in shape and ride the gears you always ride in
the hills.
However, for just-in-case, a more likely event is snow. It can snow
any day of the year in the Alps, so take a parka (with hood) so you
can get down off the mountain on your own.
Mon, 16 Jul 2001:
http://www.trentobike.org/Countries/Europe/Tour_Reports/Tour_of_the_Alps/Gallery/103-0339_IMG.JPG
Jobst Brandt
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Date: 16 Oct 2007 14:53:37
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
On Oct 16, 4:45 pm, "bfd" <bfd...@comcast.net > wrote:
> <jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message
>
> news:47152911$0$14069$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...> Anthony DeLorenzo writes:
>
> > In a 39-34, getting to the top of the Stelvio from Prato could take
> > all day.
>
> Maybe, but for some riders it might be the only way to get up to the top.
>
> You ride what, a 49/47 front chainrings with a 13x24 or 13x26 freewheel in
> the back? If your "lowest" gear is 47x26, you have a "gear inch" of about
> 47.7.
>
> In contrast, in the alps, Lance supposedly rode a 53/39 in front and 12x25
> in the rear. His "low" of 39x25 gave hima gear inch of about 41.2.
Conclusion: Baron Munchhausen is a stronger climber than a very high
level professional cyclist.
Tune in next week when the Baron opens the IPO on his Perpetual Motion
Machine. ;-)
>
> A 39x34 gives a gear inch of about 30.3. Definitely low
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Date: 18 Oct 2007 00:04:30
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> On Oct 16, 4:45 pm, "bfd" <bfd...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> <jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message
>>
>> news:47152911$0$14069$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...> Anthony DeLorenzo writes:
>>
>>> In a 39-34, getting to the top of the Stelvio from Prato could take
>>> all day.
>> Maybe, but for some riders it might be the only way to get up to the top.
>>
>> You ride what, a 49/47 front chainrings with a 13x24 or 13x26 freewheel in
>> the back? If your "lowest" gear is 47x26, you have a "gear inch" of about
>> 47.7.
>>
>> In contrast, in the alps, Lance supposedly rode a 53/39 in front and 12x25
>> in the rear. His "low" of 39x25 gave hima gear inch of about 41.2.
>
>
> Conclusion: Baron Munchhausen is a stronger climber than a very high
> level professional cyclist....
Not necessarily. Remember, power is torque multiplied by rotational
velocity. Therefore, if Jobst is pedaling at 40 rpm in a 50-inch gear
and Lance is pedaling at 100 rpm in a 40-inch gear, Lance is developing
twice the power of Jobst.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!
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Date: 18 Oct 2007 07:05:11
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:ff6pgv$ndn$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> Not necessarily. Remember, power is torque multiplied by rotational
> velocity. Therefore, if Jobst is pedaling at 40 rpm in a 50-inch gear and
> Lance is pedaling at 100 rpm in a 40-inch gear, Lance is developing twice
> the power of Jobst.
> Tom Sherman
Climbing cadence is what you feel comfortable in. JB is a tall person,
and probably feels more comfortable in a lower cadence. As I recall
Miguel Indurain (Big Mig) also had a lower cadence in the climbs.
Out of the TDF riders, Pantani had the fastest time up Alpe d'Huez at
37'35", just a second faster than Lance in 2004 37'36". Out of the low
cadence climbers, Jan Ullrich posted a 38'23" in 1997, while Big Mig had his
fastest time of 39'28" in 1995. Greg LeMond also had a lower climbing
cadence and posted a 48'00" the same time as Bernard Hinault in 1986.
As for chainrings and clusters, you'll have to find what works best for
your climbing cadence rhythm. Once you find that rhythm, you can fine tune
your drivetrain.
-tom
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Date: 18 Oct 2007 19:44:31
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
Tom Nakashima wrote:
> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ff6pgv$ndn$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>> Not necessarily. Remember, power is torque multiplied by rotational
>> velocity. Therefore, if Jobst is pedaling at 40 rpm in a 50-inch gear and
>> Lance is pedaling at 100 rpm in a 40-inch gear, Lance is developing twice
>> the power of Jobst.
>> Tom Sherman
>
> Climbing cadence is what you feel comfortable in. JB is a tall person,
> and probably feels more comfortable in a lower cadence. As I recall
> Miguel Indurain (Big Mig) also had a lower cadence in the climbs....
A study comparing femur length and preferred cadence [1] would be
interesting. Is there a level of acceleration at the knee that riders
prefer not to exceed?
[1] Or for that matter, preferred crank length.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!
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Date: 19 Oct 2007 14:09:11
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:ff8uli$4c0$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> A study comparing femur length and preferred cadence [1] would be
> interesting.
I've heard cyclist with long femur make good climbers. You also don't have
to be tall to have a long femur as in Marco Patani's case.
> Is there a level of acceleration at the knee that riders prefer not to
> exceed?
Every rider is different and should know what not to exceed.
> [1] Or for that matter, preferred crank length.
> Tom Sherman
Choice of rider.
My seat tube angle is at 72 degrees, using a172.5mm crank arm length. My
cadence in the climbs is around 70rpm average. I ride with a 50/34 compact
crank with a 12- 23 9sp rear. I love having the close gear ratios in the
climbs. The 50t is for the flats and descents, and the 34t only sees the
climbs, it's pretty straight forward.
Climbing:
What I do is slide back on the saddle, put my hands on top of the bars in
more of an upright position, get into a cadence rhythm and call it a workout
at a comfortable pace.
I used to ride with a HRM, but I have my pace settings memorized now, so I
know when to shut it down without any instruments.
Once you get into good climbing shape, the training of exhaustion turns into
training of exhilaration.
-tom
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Date: 19 Oct 2007 12:27:10
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:ff8uli$4c0$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> Tom Nakashima wrote:
> > "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:ff6pgv$ndn$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> >> Not necessarily. Remember, power is torque multiplied by rotational
> >> velocity. Therefore, if Jobst is pedaling at 40 rpm in a 50-inch gear
and
> >> Lance is pedaling at 100 rpm in a 40-inch gear, Lance is developing
twice
> >> the power of Jobst.
> >> Tom Sherman
> >
> > Climbing cadence is what you feel comfortable in. JB is a tall person,
> > and probably feels more comfortable in a lower cadence. As I recall
> > Miguel Indurain (Big Mig) also had a lower cadence in the climbs....
>
> A study comparing femur length and preferred cadence [1] would be
> interesting. Is there a level of acceleration at the knee that riders
> prefer not to exceed?
>
> [1] Or for that matter, preferred crank length.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!
There was a tall SKINNY kid in high who no one could beat in arm
wrestling. His forearms were at least 4"-6" longer than all the rest of us
which gave him a substantial mechanical advantage.
I always though the same thing about tall long legged rider???
Chas.
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Date: 16 Oct 2007 20:57:04
From: Anthony DeLorenzo
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
On Oct 15, 3:05 pm, "graham" <h2gt2g42-n...@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> I agree. Given what everyone has said I think I am going to try a XT M770
> 11-34 cassette which runs 11 13 15 17 20 23 26 30 34 then if possible, which
> it appears to be, swap out the 11 and 13 for a 14 and 16 which will give me
> 14 15 16 17 20 23 26 30 34. Then couple this with a XT M771 (top normal)
> rear mech which I think will work ok with my Ultegra STIs.
I wouldn't take it for granted that you need a new rear derailleur. I
did a similar conversion for a friend who wanted lower gears without
moving to a triple, and I was able to get a short-cage 105 derailleur
(rather old one, at that) to take up an 11-34 cassette. It was
basically maxed in the big-big and small-small combos, and I had to
tweak the b-screw and move the axle a little in the dropouts to get
the derailleur around the 34-tooth cog, but once it was set up it
worked without a hitch. You might at least try it before you spring
for a new derailleur.
Personally, I would prefer a bigger range with an 11-34 cassette, but
of course it's a matter of personal preference.
Regards,
Anthony
|
| | |
Date: 16 Oct 2007 23:50:15
From: graham
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
"Anthony DeLorenzo" <anthony.delorenzo@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1192568224.166033.40950@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 15, 3:05 pm, "graham" <h2gt2g42-n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I agree. Given what everyone has said I think I am going to try a XT M770
>> 11-34 cassette which runs 11 13 15 17 20 23 26 30 34 then if possible,
>> which
>> it appears to be, swap out the 11 and 13 for a 14 and 16 which will give
>> me
>> 14 15 16 17 20 23 26 30 34. Then couple this with a XT M771 (top normal)
>> rear mech which I think will work ok with my Ultegra STIs.
>
> I wouldn't take it for granted that you need a new rear derailleur. I
> did a similar conversion for a friend who wanted lower gears without
> moving to a triple, and I was able to get a short-cage 105 derailleur
> (rather old one, at that) to take up an 11-34 cassette. It was
> basically maxed in the big-big and small-small combos, and I had to
> tweak the b-screw and move the axle a little in the dropouts to get
> the derailleur around the 34-tooth cog, but once it was set up it
> worked without a hitch. You might at least try it before you spring
> for a new derailleur.
>
> Personally, I would prefer a bigger range with an 11-34 cassette, but
> of course it's a matter of personal preference.
>
> Regards,
> Anthony
Thanks for that Anthony. I agree its worth a try. If mine will handle the 34
then there is no way I would attempt to ride the 53/30 and 34. They are only
there in the case of emergency on the last climb if things have gone pear
shaped so will only be used if at all with the 39.
Graham.
|
| | |
Date: 16 Oct 2007 21:14:40
From:
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
Anthony DeLorenzo writes:
>> I agree. Given what everyone has said I think I am going to try a
>> XT M770 11-34 cassette which runs 11 13 15 17 20 23 26 30 34 then
>> if possible, which it appears to be, swap out the 11 and 13 for a
>> 14 and 16 which will give me 14 15 16 17 20 23 26 30 34. Then
>> couple this with a XT M771 (top normal) rear mech which I think
>> will work ok with my Ultegra STIs.
> I wouldn't take it for granted that you need a new rear derailleur.
> I did a similar conversion for a friend who wanted lower gears
> without moving to a triple, and I was able to get a short-cage 105
> derailleur (rather old one, at that) to take up an 11-34 cassette.
> It was basically maxed in the big-big and small-small combos, and I
> had to tweak the b-screw and move the axle a little in the dropouts
> to get the derailleur around the 34-tooth cog, but once it was set
> up it worked without a hitch. You might at least try it before you
> spring for a new derailleur.
I don't get it. The Alps are no steeper (except Austria) than
mountain roads in the USA. Just because famous bicycle races go over
them, the passes are not as demanding as for instance Sonora Pass in
the Sierra. Just use your usual touring gears and get in shape.
> Personally, I would prefer a bigger range with an 11-34 cassette,
> but of course it's a matter of personal preference.
You don't need to pedal down these mountains, and you don't need to
sprint at 30+mph in an 11t sprocket. I take it this isn't a UCI race.
In a 39-34, getting to the top of the Stelvio from Prato could take
all day.
Jobst Brandt
|
| | |
Date: 16 Oct 2007 21:11:45
From:
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
Anthony DeLorenzo writes:
>> I agree. Given what everyone has said I think I am going to try a
>> XT M770 11-34 cassette which runs 11 13 15 17 20 23 26 30 34 then
>> if possible, which it appears to be, swap out the 11 and 13 for a
>> 14 and 16 which will give me 14 15 16 17 20 23 26 30 34. Then
>> couple this with a XT M771 (top normal) rear mech which I think
>> will work ok with my Ultegra STIs.
> I wouldn't take it for granted that you need a new rear derailleur.
> I did a similar conversion for a friend who wanted lower gears
> without moving to a triple, and I was able to get a short-cage 105
> derailleur (rather old one, at that) to take up an 11-34 cassette.
> It was basically maxed in the big-big and small-small combos, and I
> had to tweak the b-screw and move the axle a little in the dropouts
> to get the derailleur around the 34-tooth cog, but once it was set
> up it worked without a hitch. You might at least try it before you
> spring for a new derailleur.
I don't get it. The Alps are no steeper (except Austria) than
mountain roads in the USA. Just because famous bicycle races go over
them, the passes are not as demanding as for instance Sonora Pass in
the Sierra. Just use your usual touring gears and get in shape.
> Personally, I would prefer a bigger range with an 11-34 cassette,
> but of course it's a matter of personal preference.
You don't need to pedal down these mountains, so an you don't need to
sprint at 30+mph in an 11t sprocket. I take it this isn't a UCI race.
In a 39-34, getting to the top of the Stelvio from Prato could take
all day.
Jobst Brandt
|
| | | |
Date: 16 Oct 2007 23:45:08
From: graham
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
<jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org > wrote in message
news:47152911$0$14069$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
[Snip]
> I don't get it. The Alps are no steeper (except Austria) than
> mountain roads in the USA. Just because famous bicycle races go over
> them, the passes are not as demanding as for instance Sonora Pass in
> the Sierra. Just use your usual touring gears and get in shape.
Where I live in the UK the max rise is about 300m in between 1 and 2 miles
with some of the "climbs??" having reasonable grades of 10% for upto about
half a mile and the odd one will have a 20% grade for a few hundred yards.
The 10%s I can manage comfortably on my 72 inch geared fixie and 39/27 will
see me up the 20% stretches. I certainly intend making sure I am in shape
and will travel further a field in the UK to get in some more substantial
climbs but none will come close to those in the Marmotte. Not in terms of
grade, its easy to find steeer, but in length. Clearly I would hope to be
able to do most of the climbing in around the 39/20, 23 and 26 of the 11-34
but as I said in my original post I would feel more comfortable knowing if
the worst came to the worst I had the insurance of a couple of lower gears
particularly as I have not had any experience of this type of terrain or
environment.
> You don't need to pedal down these mountains, so an you don't need to
> sprint at 30+mph in an 11t sprocket. I take it this isn't a UCI race.
Thats why I thought of swapping out the 11 and 13 for a 14 and 16 if it
meant as some have suggested that I could get away with using my existing
rear mech.
> In a 39-34, getting to the top of the Stelvio from Prato could take
> all day.
> Jobst Brandt
See above there is no way I plan to just sit there and twiddle a 39/34 up
every single inch of the climbs.
Graham.
|
| | | |
Date: 16 Oct 2007 14:45:28
From: bfd
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
<jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org > wrote in message
news:47152911$0$14069$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Anthony DeLorenzo writes:
>
> In a 39-34, getting to the top of the Stelvio from Prato could take
> all day.
>
Maybe, but for some riders it might be the only way to get up to the top.
You ride what, a 49/47 front chainrings with a 13x24 or 13x26 freewheel in
the back? If your "lowest" gear is 47x26, you have a "gear inch" of about
47.7.
In contrast, in the alps, Lance supposedly rode a 53/39 in front and 12x25
in the rear. His "low" of 39x25 gave hima gear inch of about 41.2.
A 39x34 gives a gear inch of about 30.3. Definitely low
|
| | | | |
Date: 16 Oct 2007 22:17:35
From:
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
someone writes:
>> In a 39-34, getting to the top of the Stelvio from Prato could take
>> all day.
> Maybe, but for some riders it might be the only way to get up to the
> top.
You could walk.
> You ride what, a 49/47 front chainrings with a 13x24 or 13x26
> freewheel in the back? If your "lowest" gear is 47x26, you have a
> "gear inch" of about 47.7.
I have a 46-25 that, using the old gear calculation rules, give a
49.7" gear and it works for me as well on long grades as shorter ones.
Until this summer I did well with 47-24 but changing to a 7-speed
Shimano hub resulted in a 13,15,17,19,21,23,25 cluster. The point is
that not all roads are Sonora Pass, or for that matter, the road from
Blumau to Tieres on the Niger Joch pass in the Dolomites with km long
24% grades.
> In contrast, in the alps, Lance supposedly rode a 53/39 in front and
> 12x25 in the rear. His "low" of 39x25 gave him a gear inch of about
> 41.2.
Lance is no measure for this evaluation. This is not a race and the
rider is not a young racer.
> A 39x34 gives a gear inch of about 30.3. Definitely low.
A 30.3" gear gives about 5.4mph at a cadence of 60, which I don't see
as practical. I haven't seen any tourists, or for that matter, sports
riders turning that fast on long grades.
Jobst Brandt
|
| | | | | |
Date: 18 Oct 2007 00:07:19
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
> ...
> A 30.3" gear gives about 5.4mph at a cadence of 60, which I don't see
> as practical. I haven't seen any tourists, or for that matter, sports
> riders turning that fast on long grades.
I like to climb in low gears with a cadence of at least 90 rpm. Pushing
big gears is too hard on my knees, and takes more effort.
However, I expect that Jobst is close to one end of the physiological
spectrum in this matter, and I am near the other.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 18 Oct 2007 17:44:34
From:
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
Tom Sherman writes:
>> ... A 30.3" gear gives about 5.4mph at a cadence of 60, which I
>> don't see as practical. I haven't seen any tourists, or for that
>> matter, sports riders turning that fast on long grades.
> I like to climb in low gears with a cadence of at least 90
> rpm. Pushing big gears is too hard on my knees, and takes more
> effort.
> However, I expect that Jobst is close to one end of the
> physiological spectrum in this matter, and I am near the other.
As I said, I have in all these years not seen anyone not part of a
bicycle race turn as high as 60 rpm on the major alpine passes. In
addition I watched Hampsten and Millar (Tour de Suisse) on the Klausen
Pass hill climb, turning less than 60rpm, especially Millar who rode
standing most of the way.
Jobst Brandt
|
| | | | | |
Date: 17 Oct 2007 07:56:43
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
<jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org > wrote in message
news:4715387f$0$14100$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>
>> In contrast, in the alps, Lance supposedly rode a 53/39 in front and
>> 12x25 in the rear. His "low" of 39x25 gave him a gear inch of about
>> 41.2.
> Lance is no measure for this evaluation. This is not a race and the
> rider is not a young racer.
> Jobst Brandt
I'm not sure what kind of shape he's in now, but in 2006 before the start of
the stage in the TDF, Lance rode up Alpe d'Huez although he wasn't in the
Tour. What was funny, only a hand for of spectators recognized him. I
believe his time was faster than any of the registered riders of the tour.
I've always been fascinated by Lance's fast pace climbing cadence. It took
me awhile to adapt to that style, but I now find it very comfortable. For
long distance climbing, I stay seated with the higher cadence, and only on
the steep grades do I get out of the saddle. I've also learned to pace
myself and not push my limits.
-tom
|
| |
Date: 16 Oct 2007 09:03:29
From: JG
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
On Oct 16, 9:01 am, JG <j...@cox.net > wrote:
> A quick check of US prices yields:
>
> Campy Champ triple crankset $110
> Campy Veloce triple BB $33
> Campy Race triple f.d. $41
>
> versus
>
> Shimano 11-34 $49
the SRAM 11-34 is a much better deal - $23
> Shimano XT M771 $80
>
> Messing with the cogs will probably require another cassette.
> You could keep the triple, using it later with an 11-21, and recoup
> some of the loss by selling the Ultegra front end.
> So it's not a slam dunk...
>
> JG
|
| |
Date: 16 Oct 2007 09:01:37
From: JG
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
A quick check of US prices yields:
Campy Champ triple crankset $110
Campy Veloce triple BB $33
Campy Race triple f.d. $41
versus
Shimano 11-34 $49
Shimano XT M771 $80
Messing with the cogs will probably require another cassette.
You could keep the triple, using it later with an 11-21, and recoup
some of the loss by selling the Ultegra front end.
So it's not a slam dunk...
JG
|
| | |
Date: 16 Oct 2007 16:33:33
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
JG wrote:
> A quick check of US prices yields:
>
> Campy Champ triple crankset $110
> Campy Veloce triple BB $33
> Campy Race triple f.d. $41
>
> versus
>
> Shimano 11-34 $49
> Shimano XT M771 $80
>
> Messing with the cogs will probably require another cassette.
> You could keep the triple, using it later with an 11-21, and recoup
> some of the loss by selling the Ultegra front end.
> So it's not a slam dunk...
For a big cassette like this, or for a triple, you will need a new rear,
not front, derailleur. Most Campy front derailleurs handle triple
fronts just fine, but that 11-34 cassette plus his 53-39 chainrings will
need a capacity of 37 teeth, which is beyond the capacity of a
short-cage derailleur.
My choice would be a less-extreme cassette along with a compact front
double, which gives you a nice wide range without needing new
derailleurs. But then, I like compact cranks, and think that a 53/39 is
only for racers or those who live in Florida. I also got an essentially
new crank, with rings and bottom bracket, for $30 at the Trexlertown
flea market last weekend.
This also impacts that idea of selling off your current cranks. The
market for used non-carbon cranks is pretty weak; you are not going to
get much for them.
--
David L. Johnson
Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and Excellence.
|
| |
Date: 16 Oct 2007 06:36:59
From: russellseaton1@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
On Oct 15, 5:05 pm, "graham" <h2gt2g42-n...@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote in messagenews:Pc2dnazhnP5eXI7anZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "graham" <h2gt2g42-n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> >news:GIGdnWge5q38sY_a4p2dnAA@bt.com...
> >> Just starting to plan for doing the La Marmotte in France next year -
> > 174km
> >> taking in the col du Glandon, col du Galiber and finishing with the
> > climb up
> >> to Alpe d'Huez. Currently I have a Shimano Ultegra groupset with a 53/39
> >> octalink chainset. My lowest geared cassette is a 12-27 giving a bottom
> > gear
> >> of 37.7. Having studied the race profile I am thinking about taking
> >> something a bit lower just to be on the safe side. Alpe d'Huez with
> > 160km
> >> (100 miles) in my legs looks a bit daunting.
>
> >> My initial thoughts are either a triple 52/42/30 which would get me down
> > to
> >> 29 with my 12-27 or sticking with the 53/39 and going for a 12-34
> > cassette
> >> to give 29.9.
>
> [Snip]
>
> > It sounds like going to larger rear sprockets with a MTB rear derailleur
> > would be the least expensive and easiest route to go.
>
> > I found that I can handle bigger gear jumps at the high and low range. I
> > like closer gearing in the 60" to 85" range where I ride most of the time.
>
> > Chas.
>
> I agree. Given what everyone has said I think I am going to try a XT M770
> 11-34 cassette which runs 11 13 15 17 20 23 26 30 34 then if possible, which
> it appears to be, swap out the 11 and 13 for a 14 and 16 which will give me
> 14 15 16 17 20 23 26 30 34.
Unless the 14 cog you plan to use is the first cog from another
Shimano cassette, it will not be able to substitute for the 11 cog.
You could likely toss out the 13 and 15 and put in the 14 and 16
cogs. Or toss out the 13 and put in a 16.
A 11-32 or 11-34 rear cassette and a cheap long cage mountain bike
Shimano rear derailleur are the easiest way to get pretty low gears.
39x34 is 30".
Then couple this with a XT M771 (top normal)
> rear mech which I think will work ok with my Ultegra STIs. Given it will
> then it just comes down to choice of cage length. The medium has a 33 tooth
> range and the long a 45 tooth range. If I swap the cogs then with my 53/39
> that gives a 34 tooth range. Anyone know how far above the Shimano spec, if
> at all, you can go before you get into problems i.e. will a medium be ok
> with a 34 tooth range if so what about 37 with an unmodified cassette.
>
> Graham.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
|
| |
Date: 15 Oct 2007 12:41:47
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
"graham" <h2gt2g42-news@yahoo.co.uk > wrote in message
news:GIGdnWge5q38sY_a4p2dnAA@bt.com...
> Just starting to plan for doing the La Marmotte in France next year -
174km
> taking in the col du Glandon, col du Galiber and finishing with the
climb up
> to Alpe d'Huez. Currently I have a Shimano Ultegra groupset with a 53/39
> octalink chainset. My lowest geared cassette is a 12-27 giving a bottom
gear
> of 37.7. Having studied the race profile I am thinking about taking
> something a bit lower just to be on the safe side. Alpe d'Huez with
160km
> (100 miles) in my legs looks a bit daunting.
>
> My initial thoughts are either a triple 52/42/30 which would get me down
to
> 29 with my 12-27 or sticking with the 53/39 and going for a 12-34
cassette
> to give 29.9.
>
> I would welcome any advice on the most economical way to go. Mostly this
> comes down to what will work with what. E.g. will a triple fit on my
current
> bottom bracket. Can I cut the cost by using a 105 or perhaps a lower
spec (I
> doubt if I'll use the kit for more than one or two of these adventures).
> Will my current Ultegra front mech shift a triple. What rear mech can I
get
> to shift a 12-34 and if not Ultegra will it be compatible with my
Ultegra
> STIs etc
>
I have triple cranks on 2 of my road bikes. I've only had to use the
granny gears several times this year, usually on steep hills at the end of
a hard ride but I was glad I had them.
For me, gearing lower than 1 to 1 ratio on a road bike takes more energy
to keep balanced while spinning rapidly at a slow speed than pushing a
higher gear up the hill.
It sounds like going to larger rear sprockets with a MTB rear derailleur
would be the least expensive and easiest route to go.
I found that I can handle bigger gear jumps at the high and low range. I
like closer gearing in the 60" to 85" range where I ride most of the time.
Chas.
|
| | |
Date: 15 Oct 2007 23:05:58
From: graham
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
"* * Chas" <verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com > wrote in message
news:Pc2dnazhnP5eXI7anZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "graham" <h2gt2g42-news@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:GIGdnWge5q38sY_a4p2dnAA@bt.com...
>> Just starting to plan for doing the La Marmotte in France next year -
> 174km
>> taking in the col du Glandon, col du Galiber and finishing with the
> climb up
>> to Alpe d'Huez. Currently I have a Shimano Ultegra groupset with a 53/39
>> octalink chainset. My lowest geared cassette is a 12-27 giving a bottom
> gear
>> of 37.7. Having studied the race profile I am thinking about taking
>> something a bit lower just to be on the safe side. Alpe d'Huez with
> 160km
>> (100 miles) in my legs looks a bit daunting.
>>
>> My initial thoughts are either a triple 52/42/30 which would get me down
> to
>> 29 with my 12-27 or sticking with the 53/39 and going for a 12-34
> cassette
>> to give 29.9.
[Snip]
> It sounds like going to larger rear sprockets with a MTB rear derailleur
> would be the least expensive and easiest route to go.
>
> I found that I can handle bigger gear jumps at the high and low range. I
> like closer gearing in the 60" to 85" range where I ride most of the time.
>
> Chas.
I agree. Given what everyone has said I think I am going to try a XT M770
11-34 cassette which runs 11 13 15 17 20 23 26 30 34 then if possible, which
it appears to be, swap out the 11 and 13 for a 14 and 16 which will give me
14 15 16 17 20 23 26 30 34. Then couple this with a XT M771 (top normal)
rear mech which I think will work ok with my Ultegra STIs. Given it will
then it just comes down to choice of cage length. The medium has a 33 tooth
range and the long a 45 tooth range. If I swap the cogs then with my 53/39
that gives a 34 tooth range. Anyone know how far above the Shimano spec, if
at all, you can go before you get into problems i.e. will a medium be ok
with a 34 tooth range if so what about 37 with an unmodified cassette.
Graham.
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Oct 2007 19:07:38
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
"graham" <h2gt2g42-news@yahoo.co.uk > wrote in message
news:v5GdnQ-kW7bMeY7anZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "* * Chas" <verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com> wrote in message
> news:Pc2dnazhnP5eXI7anZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> >
> > "graham" <h2gt2g42-news@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:GIGdnWge5q38sY_a4p2dnAA@bt.com...
> >> Just starting to plan for doing the La Marmotte in France next year -
> > 174km
> >> taking in the col du Glandon, col du Galiber and finishing with the
> > climb up
> >> to Alpe d'Huez. Currently I have a Shimano Ultegra groupset with a
53/39
> >> octalink chainset. My lowest geared cassette is a 12-27 giving a
bottom
> > gear
> >> of 37.7. Having studied the race profile I am thinking about taking
> >> something a bit lower just to be on the safe side. Alpe d'Huez with
> > 160km
> >> (100 miles) in my legs looks a bit daunting.
> >>
> >> My initial thoughts are either a triple 52/42/30 which would get me
down
> > to
> >> 29 with my 12-27 or sticking with the 53/39 and going for a 12-34
> > cassette
> >> to give 29.9.
>
> [Snip]
>
> > It sounds like going to larger rear sprockets with a MTB rear
derailleur
> > would be the least expensive and easiest route to go.
> >
> > I found that I can handle bigger gear jumps at the high and low range.
I
> > like closer gearing in the 60" to 85" range where I ride most of the
time.
> >
> > Chas.
>
> I agree. Given what everyone has said I think I am going to try a XT
M770
> 11-34 cassette which runs 11 13 15 17 20 23 26 30 34 then if possible,
which
> it appears to be, swap out the 11 and 13 for a 14 and 16 which will give
me
> 14 15 16 17 20 23 26 30 34. Then couple this with a XT M771 (top normal)
> rear mech which I think will work ok with my Ultegra STIs. Given it will
> then it just comes down to choice of cage length. The medium has a 33
tooth
> range and the long a 45 tooth range. If I swap the cogs then with my
53/39
> that gives a 34 tooth range. Anyone know how far above the Shimano spec,
if
> at all, you can go before you get into problems i.e. will a medium be ok
> with a 34 tooth range if so what about 37 with an unmodified cassette.
>
> Graham.
>
I have a Shimano medium length rear derailleur on one of my road triples
with a 12-28 cassette and 48-38-28 chainrings. I've had no problems with
it at all. I only use the 3 largest rear cogs with the 28 tooth chainring
and I don't try to run the 48-28 combo.
The capacity recommendations are designed around an "average" frame. Some
of the folks who work on these problems everyday may have a better answer
trial and error may be necessary in your situation.
The 53 tooth chainring may require a long arm rear derailleur. Chainstay
length and one more or fewer links in the chain can cause problems.
Sorry I don't have better answers.
Chas.
|
| |
Date: 15 Oct 2007 03:21:45
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
In article <GIGdnWge5q38sY_a4p2dnAA@bt.com >,
"graham" <h2gt2g42-news@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> Just starting to plan for doing the La Marmotte in France next year - 174km
> taking in the col du Glandon, col du Galiber and finishing with the climb up
> to Alpe d'Huez. Currently I have a Shimano Ultegra groupset with a 53/39
> octalink chainset. My lowest geared cassette is a 12-27 giving a bottom gear
> of 37.7. Having studied the race profile I am thinking about taking
> something a bit lower just to be on the safe side. Alpe d'Huez with 160km
> (100 miles) in my legs looks a bit daunting.
>
> My initial thoughts are either a triple 52/42/30 which would get me down to
> 29 with my 12-27 or sticking with the 53/39 and going for a 12-34 cassette
> to give 29.9.
>
> I would welcome any advice on the most economical way to go. Mostly this
> comes down to what will work with what. E.g. will a triple fit on my current
> bottom bracket. Can I cut the cost by using a 105 or perhaps a lower spec (I
> doubt if I'll use the kit for more than one or two of these adventures).
> Will my current Ultegra front mech shift a triple. What rear mech can I get
> to shift a 12-34 and if not Ultegra will it be compatible with my Ultegra
> STIs etc
Compared to the ticket over the ocean and accommodations
the price of an entirely new drive train is trivial.
Put in a triple crank set. 52-39-26 and a 12-23 cassette.
You will still have it when the tour becomes memories.
--
Michael Press
|
| | |
Date: 15 Oct 2007 03:28:43
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
In article
<rubrum-D70D3A.20214514102007@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.
com >,
Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net > wrote:
> In article <GIGdnWge5q38sY_a4p2dnAA@bt.com>,
> "graham" <h2gt2g42-news@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Just starting to plan for doing the La Marmotte in France next year - 174km
> > taking in the col du Glandon, col du Galiber and finishing with the climb up
> > to Alpe d'Huez. Currently I have a Shimano Ultegra groupset with a 53/39
> > octalink chainset. My lowest geared cassette is a 12-27 giving a bottom gear
> > of 37.7. Having studied the race profile I am thinking about taking
> > something a bit lower just to be on the safe side. Alpe d'Huez with 160km
> > (100 miles) in my legs looks a bit daunting.
> >
> > My initial thoughts are either a triple 52/42/30 which would get me down to
> > 29 with my 12-27 or sticking with the 53/39 and going for a 12-34 cassette
> > to give 29.9.
> >
> > I would welcome any advice on the most economical way to go. Mostly this
> > comes down to what will work with what. E.g. will a triple fit on my current
> > bottom bracket. Can I cut the cost by using a 105 or perhaps a lower spec (I
> > doubt if I'll use the kit for more than one or two of these adventures).
> > Will my current Ultegra front mech shift a triple. What rear mech can I get
> > to shift a 12-34 and if not Ultegra will it be compatible with my Ultegra
> > STIs etc
>
> Compared to the ticket over the ocean and accommodations
> the price of an entirely new drive train is trivial.
> Put in a triple crank set. 52-39-26 and a 12-23 cassette.
> You will still have it when the tour becomes memories.
Whoops, I see you are starting from the UK.
--
Michael Press
|
| |
Date: 15 Oct 2007 00:26:23
From:
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
Graham who? writes:
> Just starting to plan for doing the La Marmotte in France next year
> - 174km taking in the col du Glandon, col du Galibier and finishing
> with the climb up to Alpe d'Huez. Currently I have a Shimano
> Ultegra groupset with a 53/39 Octalink chainset. My lowest geared
> cassette is a 12-27 giving a bottom gear of 37.7. Having studied
> the race profile I am thinking about taking something a bit lower
> just to be on the safe side. Alpe d'Huez with 160km (100 miles) in
> my legs looks a bit daunting.
> My initial thoughts are either a triple 52/42/30 which would get me
> down to 29 with my 12-27 or sticking with the 53/39 and going for a
> 12-34 cassette to give 29.9.
> I would welcome any advice on the most economical way to go. Mostly
> this comes down to what will work with what. E.g. will a triple
> fit on my current bottom bracket. Can I cut the cost by using a 105
> or perhaps a lower spec (I doubt if I'll use the kit for more than
> one or two of these adventures). Will my current Ultegra front mech
> shift a triple. What rear mech can I get to shift a 12-34 and if
> not Ultegra will it be compatible with my Ultegra STIs etc
Gears on a bicycle ARE for climbing hills, rather than starting from a
stop, and from what you say you have a fairly large span. My thoughts
are, don't take everything along including the kitchen sink so you
don't travel as a household moving van. There must be some
challenging mountain roads in your area, so lay out some regular rides
that include climbing and get in shape.
I've been riding the Alps for 50 years and get along with far fewer
gears with a lesser span than you list. At about 100+ miles per
day over the hills you mention, it goes well for me. No manner of
gearing will make up for good conditioning.
http://www.trentobike.org/Countries/Europe/Tour_Reports/Tour_of_the_Alps/
Jobst Brandt
|
| | |
Date: 14 Oct 2007 21:13:19
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
In article <4712b3af$0$14075$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >,
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Graham who? writes:
>
> > Just starting to plan for doing the La Marmotte in France next year
> > - 174km taking in the col du Glandon, col du Galibier and finishing
> > with the climb up to Alpe d'Huez. Currently I have a Shimano
> > Ultegra groupset with a 53/39 Octalink chainset. My lowest geared
> > cassette is a 12-27 giving a bottom gear of 37.7. Having studied
> > the race profile I am thinking about taking something a bit lower
> > just to be on the safe side. Alpe d'Huez with 160km (100 miles) in
> > my legs looks a bit daunting.
>
> > My initial thoughts are either a triple 52/42/30 which would get me
> > down to 29 with my 12-27 or sticking with the 53/39 and going for a
> > 12-34 cassette to give 29.9.
I ride a wider range of gears than Jobst and found that I did not need
lower than 38 x 28 to get up the hills on the route of la Marmotte. My
gearing was 48/38 x 12-28 8 speed. IIRC Jobst has described his gearing
as 50/47 x 24-24 6 speed or something like that- gearing like Fausto
Coppi used- so that gives you some notion of what's useable for this
type of terrain. Jobst is a strong climber, I am a middling climber
(6'4", ~210 lbs plus bike; Jobst is taller and lighter).
> > I would welcome any advice on the most economical way to go.
> > Mostly this comes down to what will work with what. E.g. will a
> > triple fit on my current bottom bracket. Can I cut the cost by
> > using a 105 or perhaps a lower spec (I doubt if I'll use the kit
> > for more than one or two of these adventures). Will my current
> > Ultegra front mech shift a triple. What rear mech can I get to
> > shift a 12-34 and if not Ultegra will it be compatible with my
> > Ultegra STIs etc
The most economical approach is going to be to use what you have. ;-)
After that, a compact double and a wide range cassette. With properly
chosen gears and chain length you should be able to use your current
derailleurs. My current setup on the bike I would use for la Marmotte
has 46/34 X 12-28 8 speed. That would be more than low enough gears to
get me over those hills.
> Gears on a bicycle ARE for climbing hills, rather than starting from
> a stop, and from what you say you have a fairly large span. My
> thoughts are, don't take everything along including the kitchen sink
> so you don't travel as a household moving van. There must be some
> challenging mountain roads in your area, so lay out some regular
> rides that include climbing and get in shape.
>
> I've been riding the Alps for 50 years and get along with far fewer
> gears with a lesser span than you list. At about 100+ miles per day
> over the hills you mention, it goes well for me. No manner of
> gearing will make up for good conditioning.
>
> http://www.trentobike.org/Countries/Europe/Tour_Reports/Tour_of_the_Al
> ps/
In an event like this you will not be carrying much gear- a rain jacket
just in case (some years la Marmotte has had freezing temperatures over
the highest passes and rain/snow is always a possibility), maybe some
long finger gloves and possibly some knee warmers plus some snacks.
IIRC there are food + water stops and such on the ride. When I rode
this route in 2002, it was about 90F + in the valleys and 70-75F or so
at the top of the Galibier- it was the heat that got me more than the
climbing.
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Oct 2007 12:06:11
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
"Tim McNamara" <timmcn@bitstream.net > wrote in message
news:timmcn-C3CD7C.21131914102007@news.iphouse.com...
> In article <4712b3af$0$14075$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
> jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>
> > Graham who? writes:
> >
> > > Just starting to plan for doing the La Marmotte in France next year
> > > - 174km taking in the col du Glandon, col du Galibier and finishing
> > > with the climb up to Alpe d'Huez. Currently I have a Shimano
> > > Ultegra groupset with a 53/39 Octalink chainset. My lowest geared
> > > cassette is a 12-27 giving a bottom gear of 37.7. Having studied
> > > the race profile I am thinking about taking something a bit lower
> > > just to be on the safe side. Alpe d'Huez with 160km (100 miles) in
> > > my legs looks a bit daunting.
> >
> > > My initial thoughts are either a triple 52/42/30 which would get me
> > > down to 29 with my 12-27 or sticking with the 53/39 and going for a
> > > 12-34 cassette to give 29.9.
>
> I ride a wider range of gears than Jobst and found that I did not need
> lower than 38 x 28 to get up the hills on the route of la Marmotte. My
> gearing was 48/38 x 12-28 8 speed. IIRC Jobst has described his gearing
> as 50/47 x 24-24 6 speed or something like that- gearing like Fausto
> Coppi used- so that gives you some notion of what's useable for this
> type of terrain. Jobst is a strong climber, I am a middling climber
> (6'4", ~210 lbs plus bike; Jobst is taller and lighter).
>
> > > I would welcome any advice on the most economical way to go.
> > > Mostly this comes down to what will work with what. E.g. will a
> > > triple fit on my current bottom bracket. Can I cut the cost by
> > > using a 105 or perhaps a lower spec (I doubt if I'll use the kit
> > > for more than one or two of these adventures). Will my current
> > > Ultegra front mech shift a triple. What rear mech can I get to
> > > shift a 12-34 and if not Ultegra will it be compatible with my
> > > Ultegra STIs etc
>
> The most economical approach is going to be to use what you have. ;-)
> After that, a compact double and a wide range cassette. With properly
> chosen gears and chain length you should be able to use your current
> derailleurs. My current setup on the bike I would use for la Marmotte
> has 46/34 X 12-28 8 speed. That would be more than low enough gears to
> get me over those hills.
>
> > Gears on a bicycle ARE for climbing hills, rather than starting from
> > a stop, and from what you say you have a fairly large span. My
> > thoughts are, don't take everything along including the kitchen sink
> > so you don't travel as a household moving van. There must be some
> > challenging mountain roads in your area, so lay out some regular
> > rides that include climbing and get in shape.
> >
> > I've been riding the Alps for 50 years and get along with far fewer
> > gears with a lesser span than you list. At about 100+ miles per day
> > over the hills you mention, it goes well for me. No manner of
> > gearing will make up for good conditioning.
> >
> > http://www.trentobike.org/Countries/Europe/Tour_Reports/Tour_of_the_Al
> > ps/
>
> In an event like this you will not be carrying much gear- a rain jacket
> just in case (some years la Marmotte has had freezing temperatures over
> the highest passes and rain/snow is always a possibility), maybe some
> long finger gloves and possibly some knee warmers plus some snacks.
> IIRC there are food + water stops and such on the ride. When I rode
> this route in 2002, it was about 90F + in the valleys and 70-75F or so
> at the top of the Galibier- it was the heat that got me more than the
> climbing.
But Jobst is a climbing animal.... The average rider can't compare him/her
self with him. He's a maniac! ;-)
Chas.
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Oct 2007 03:38:42
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
"Tim McNamara" <timmcn@bitstream.net > wrote in message
news:timmcn-C3CD7C.21131914102007@news.iphouse.com...
> In an event like this you will not be carrying much gear- a rain jacket
> just in case (some years la Marmotte has had freezing temperatures over
> the highest passes and rain/snow is always a possibility), maybe some
> long finger gloves and possibly some knee warmers plus some snacks.
> IIRC there are food + water stops and such on the ride. When I rode
> this route in 2002, it was about 90F + in the valleys and 70-75F or so
> at the top of the Galibier- it was the heat that got me more than the
> climbing.
We were at the top of the Glandon this year around about Marmotte time. Ok,
the Glandon was fine, but however many minutes later at the top of the Croix
de Fer it was rodding it down and not pleasant at all. We had rather more
clothes than all the lightweight types like you, yet I still got really cold
(nasty shivering) on the descent.
I did wonder about the people who didn't even appear to have the knee
warmers you mention.
cheers,
clive
|
| |
Date: 14 Oct 2007 17:11:37
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
On Oct 14, 9:58 am, "travis.ha...@gmail.com" <travis.ha...@gmail.com >
wrote:
> On Oct 14, 10:48 am, "graham" <h2gt2g42-n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Just starting to plan for doing the La Marmotte in France next year - 174km
> > taking in the col du Glandon, col du Galiber and finishing with the climb up
> > to Alpe d'Huez. Currently I have a Shimano Ultegra groupset with a 53/39
> > octalink chainset. My lowest geared cassette is a 12-27 giving a bottom gear
> > of 37.7. Having studied the race profile I am thinking about taking
> > something a bit lower just to be on the safe side. Alpe d'Huez with 160km
> > (100 miles) in my legs looks a bit daunting.
>
> > My initial thoughts are either a triple 52/42/30 which would get me down to
> > 29 with my 12-27 or sticking with the 53/39 and going for a 12-34 cassette
> > to give 29.9.
>
> > I would welcome any advice on the most economical way to go. Mostly this
> > comes down to what will work with what. E.g. will a triple fit on my current
> > bottom bracket. Can I cut the cost by using a 105 or perhaps a lower spec (I
> > doubt if I'll use the kit for more than one or two of these adventures).
> > Will my current Ultegra front mech shift a triple. What rear mech can I get
> > to shift a 12-34 and if not Ultegra will it be compatible with my Ultegra
> > STIs etc
>
> Cheap and good? Easy. Every cassette is easily disassembled.Just punch
> out the rivets that are there as a convenience. Build your own with
> the cogs you need.
<snip >
You're behind the times, man. Many cassettes have a carrier for four
or more sprockets. Pop out the rivets (if you can) and you have a
bunch of little "chain rings." -- Jay Beattie.
|
| |
Date: 14 Oct 2007 12:42:51
From: JG
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
BTW a 39 x 34 gives a 31 inch gear...
You are running into a generic problem with wide ranges on thick
cassettes (I'll assume you are using a 9 speed?).
With a standard 12-34, the "cross over" occurs at the 16t cog, so you
are getting 11 unique gears. Your front shift is essentially a two
step. If you went with a half step, say 11-34 and a 43 or 44 x 39
(needs to be double checked...) you would gain 18 unique gears for a
little off the top. But nobody needs that many gears in the low end,
and the double shifts are a pain at the high end. So the front
derailleur isn't doing much. You could even go with a single
chainring...
A compact addressed this by making the cross over a bit further. A
triple addresses this by letting you use a tighter cassette over the
same range. You don't necessarily get more gears, and you still have
too many in the low end, but you do have a convenient shift pattern -
chose you range on the crank, then fine tune on the cassette...
JG
|
| | |
Date: 14 Oct 2007 23:00:47
From: graham
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
"JG" <jchg@cox.net > wrote in message
news:1192390971.377940.60440@v29g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> BTW a 39 x 34 gives a 31 inch gear...
Not according to my calcs. My measured roll out is 2083mm. Sorry about the
metric units but in gear inches that would be (2083/25.4x3.142) x (39 / 27)
=37.7ins
Graham.
|
| | | |
Date: 14 Oct 2007 19:05:15
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
> "JG" <jchg@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:1192390971.377940.60440@v29g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>> BTW a 39 x 34 gives a 31 inch gear...
graham wrote:
> Not according to my calcs. My measured roll out is 2083mm. Sorry about the
> metric units but in gear inches that would be (2083/25.4x3.142) x (39 / 27)
> =37.7ins
The metric world uses 'development' or distance traveled per crank rev.
Less usefully, our 'gear inches' hark to the halcyon days of
highwheelers and express the arcane 'equivalent Ordinary wheel'
diameter. 39/34x27 is indeed 31 inches. Or 30.9 for sticklers.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | |
Date: 14 Oct 2007 23:05:17
From: graham
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
"graham" <h2gt2g42-news@yahoo.co.uk > wrote in message
news:kq6dndSVdaA9DI_anZ2dnUVZ8qWhnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "JG" <jchg@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:1192390971.377940.60440@v29g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>> BTW a 39 x 34 gives a 31 inch gear...
>
> Not according to my calcs. My measured roll out is 2083mm. Sorry about the
> metric units but in gear inches that would be (2083/25.4x3.142) x (39 /
> 27) =37.7ins
>
> Graham.
Sorry, wrong example (2083/25.4x3.142) x (39 /34) =29.9
Graham.
|
| | |
Date: 14 Oct 2007 21:16:46
From: Joe Roach
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
"JG" <jchg@cox.net > wrote in message
news:1192390971.377940.60440@v29g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> BTW a 39 x 34 gives a 31 inch gear...
>
> You are running into a generic problem with wide ranges on thick
> cassettes (I'll assume you are using a 9 speed?).
>
> With a standard 12-34, the "cross over" occurs at the 16t cog, so you
> are getting 11 unique gears. Your front shift is essentially a two
> step. If you went with a half step, say 11-34 and a 43 or 44 x 39
> (needs to be double checked...) you would gain 18 unique gears for a
> little off the top. But nobody needs that many gears in the low end,
> and the double shifts are a pain at the high end. So the front
> derailleur isn't doing much. You could even go with a single
> chainring...
>
> A compact addressed this by making the cross over a bit further. A
> triple addresses this by letting you use a tighter cassette over the
> same range. You don't necessarily get more gears, and you still have
> too many in the low end, but you do have a convenient shift pattern -
> chose you range on the crank, then fine tune on the cassette...
>
> JG
>
Faced with a similar problem, I switched from a compact (50/34) to a triple
(52/42/30 set-up (Campagnolo) and a 12-26 cassette. I did not need to
change the front changer nor the rear derailleur and the chain length was
unaltered. Everything works fine as long as I don't use big/big or
small/small cross-chaining combination (I wouldn't anyway). The only new
parts required were the chainset and the bottom bracket.
|
| |
Date: 14 Oct 2007 19:28:53
From: graham
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
"graham" <h2gt2g42-news@yahoo.co.uk > wrote in message
news:GIGdnWge5q38sY_a4p2dnAA@bt.com...
> Just starting to plan for doing the La Marmotte in France next year -
> 174km taking in the col du Glandon, col du Galiber and finishing with the
> climb up to Alpe d'Huez. Currently I have a Shimano Ultegra groupset with
> a 53/39 octalink chainset. My lowest geared cassette is a 12-27 giving a
> bottom gear of 37.7. Having studied the race profile I am thinking about
> taking something a bit lower just to be on the safe side. Alpe d'Huez with
> 160km (100 miles) in my legs looks a bit daunting.
>
> My initial thoughts are either a triple 52/42/30 which would get me down
> to 29 with my 12-27 or sticking with the 53/39 and going for a 12-34
> cassette to give 29.9.
>
> I would welcome any advice on the most economical way to go. Mostly this
> comes down to what will work with what. E.g. will a triple fit on my
> current bottom bracket. Can I cut the cost by using a 105 or perhaps a
> lower spec (I doubt if I'll use the kit for more than one or two of these
> adventures). Will my current Ultegra front mech shift a triple. What rear
> mech can I get to shift a 12-34 and if not Ultegra will it be compatible
> with my Ultegra STIs etc
You will need a new BB and a new front derailleur, and, of course, you
will need a rear derailleur which can wrap enough chain.
JG
......................................................................................................
I think the cheapest solution is an inexpensive Shimano MTB rear
deraileur and 12-34 cassette... if you are sure this will be a low
enough gear. Don't get a Ritchey crank... they break.
Ron
.....................................................................................................
The Ultegra will certainly handle the 28. a 34? You'll need to
try it. Or spend $60 on a long cage Ultegra.
Stay Shimano and STI will work. You're just going to sacrifice some
speed in the shifts. And of course you want to lengthen the chain to
not risk breaking it.
Harry
.................................................................................................................
Any Shimano mountain bike rear derailer will index with your shifters.
All but a couple of the cheapest models will handle a 34t cog. You can
get a Deore mech for $16 at Nashbar, and it'll work about as well as
anything.
Steve
..................................................................................................................
Thanks guys. From what you have all said this looks like a new 12-34
cassette and a new rear mech (plus a new chain of course). From the specs I
have seen the long cage Ultegra says 27 teeth is the max. Can anyone from
experience confirm whether or not a long cage Ultegra will handle a 34. If
not then I would be happy to go with a Deore or even an XTR . Can I take it
that a Deore or XTR 12-34 cassette would fit ok on my existing Ultegra hub.
If it will and my Ultegra STI will shift it then this looks the way to go if
a long cage Ultegra rear mech cannot reliably shift a 12-34.
Graham.
|
| | |
Date: 16 Oct 2007 02:08:08
From: Bill
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
"graham" <h2gt2g42-news@yahoo.co.uk > wrote in message
news:ouudne8Wzcppwo_anZ2dnUVZ8tChnZ2d@bt.com...
snip
>
............................................................................
......................................
>
> Thanks guys. From what you have all said this looks like a new 12-34
> cassette and a new rear mech (plus a new chain of course). From the specs
I
> have seen the long cage Ultegra says 27 teeth is the max. Can anyone from
> experience confirm whether or not a long cage Ultegra will handle a 34. If
> not then I would be happy to go with a Deore or even an XTR . Can I take
it
> that a Deore or XTR 12-34 cassette would fit ok on my existing Ultegra
hub.
> If it will and my Ultegra STI will shift it then this looks the way to go
if
> a long cage Ultegra rear mech cannot reliably shift a 12-34.
>
> Graham.
>
Since this is for one ride the cheap and effective solution is the one you
have chosen. I've done the same with a 39x53 and a 12-32 9 speed. I used a
long cage (triple) Ultegra derailleur and it just barely (jockey wheel runs
against the cassette on the 32. Go for an inexpensive mtn derailleur. My
guess is you will be doing other riding in addition to the one extreme day
you mention. Consider taking along a 25 or 27, chain whip, lock-ring tool
and a smallest effective adjustable wrench. Set the chain up to work on the
snug side with the 34 and you can swap cassettes in a couple of minutes and
have closer gears for the rest of the ride. You can get a SRAM PG950 11x34
for less than $30.
Bill
|
| | |
Date: 14 Oct 2007 19:05:49
From: Steve Gravrock
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
|
On 2007-10-14, graham <h2gt2g42-news@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> Thanks guys. From what you have all said this looks like a new 12-34
> cassette and a new rear mech (plus a new chain of course). From the specs I
> have seen the long cage Ultegra says 27 teeth is the max. Can anyone from
> experience confirm whether or not a long cage Ultegra will handle a 34.
I don't have experience with Ultegra specifically, but the 105 rear
derailer has similar geometry and whether it'll handle a 30t cog or not
depends on the design of the derailer hanger. I wouldn't expect a 34t to
work in any case.
See <http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/derailers-rear.html >, especially
"A note about range" and "A note about capacity".
|
| |
Date: 14 Oct 2007 14:15:50
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
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graham wrote:
> Just starting to plan for doing the La Marmotte in France next year - 174km
> taking in the col du Glandon, col du Galiber and finishing with the climb up
> to Alpe d'Huez. Currently I have a Shimano Ultegra groupset with a 53/39
> octalink chainset. My lowest geared cassette is a 12-27 giving a bottom gear
> of 37.7. Having studied the race profile I am thinking about taking
> something a bit lower just to be on the safe side. Alpe d'Huez with 160km
> (100 miles) in my legs looks a bit daunting.
>
> My initial thoughts are either a triple 52/42/30 which would get me down to
> 29 with my 12-27 or sticking with the 53/39 and going for a 12-34 cassette
> to give 29.9.
Either of those options would require you to get a new rear derailleur,
since they require more capacity (difference between largest-largest and
smallest-smallest combinations, in teeth) than your current derailleur
is likely to have.
>
> I would welcome any advice on the most economical way to go. Mostly this
> comes down to what will work with what. E.g. will a triple fit on my current
> bottom bracket.
Probably not. The positioning will have to be different to properly
line up with the cassette, and different cranks use different-sized
bottom brackets for a number of reasons. But bottom brackets are not
expensive.
Can I cut the cost by using a 105 or perhaps a lower spec (I
> doubt if I'll use the kit for more than one or two of these adventures).
Sure, and since there is nothing wrong with 105, you won't be
compromising anything.
> Will my current Ultegra front mech shift a triple.
Check. Loosen the cable; does it allow two shifts, or only one? Most
are OK, but some Shimano ones are double-only.
--
David L. Johnson
Let's be straight here. If we find something we can't understand we
like to call it something you can't understand, or indeed even
pronounce.
-- Douglas Adams
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Date: 14 Oct 2007 17:06:52
From: Steve Gravrock
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
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On 2007-10-14, graham <h2gt2g42-news@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> Just starting to plan for doing the La Marmotte in France next year - 174km
> taking in the col du Glandon, col du Galiber and finishing with the climb up
> to Alpe d'Huez. Currently I have a Shimano Ultegra groupset with a 53/39
> octalink chainset. My lowest geared cassette is a 12-27 giving a bottom gear
> of 37.7. Having studied the race profile I am thinking about taking
> something a bit lower just to be on the safe side. Alpe d'Huez with 160km
> (100 miles) in my legs looks a bit daunting.
>
> My initial thoughts are either a triple 52/42/30 which would get me down to
> 29 with my 12-27 or sticking with the 53/39 and going for a 12-34 cassette
> to give 29.9.
>
> I would welcome any advice on the most economical way to go. Mostly this
> comes down to what will work with what. E.g. will a triple fit on my current
> bottom bracket. Can I cut the cost by using a 105 or perhaps a lower spec (I
> doubt if I'll use the kit for more than one or two of these adventures).
> Will my current Ultegra front mech shift a triple. What rear mech can I get
> to shift a 12-34 and if not Ultegra will it be compatible with my Ultegra
> STIs etc
Any Shimano mountain bike rear derailer will index with your shifters.
All but a couple of the cheapest models will handle a 34t cog. You can
get a Deore mech for $16 at Nashbar, and it'll work about as well as
anything.
In front, the fact that you have an Octalink setup now complicates
matters. I think Ultegra was Octalink V1, and cranks for that interface
are getting scarce. All I see in the QBP catalog is a Ritchey compact
double and a Dura-Ace triple (spendy). If neither of those fit your
needs and you're not willing to scour ebay, you'll need a new bottom
bracket to go with any new crank. If you go with a triple you'll also
need a new front derailer and possibly a new front shifter.
Converting to a triple is probably the most expensive solution, but it
would also allow you to run somewhat closer spacing in back and still
get the same low gear.
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Date: 14 Oct 2007 09:58:26
From: travis.harry@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
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On Oct 14, 10:48 am, "graham" <h2gt2g42-n...@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> Just starting to plan for doing the La Marmotte in France next year - 174km
> taking in the col du Glandon, col du Galiber and finishing with the climb up
> to Alpe d'Huez. Currently I have a Shimano Ultegra groupset with a 53/39
> octalink chainset. My lowest geared cassette is a 12-27 giving a bottom gear
> of 37.7. Having studied the race profile I am thinking about taking
> something a bit lower just to be on the safe side. Alpe d'Huez with 160km
> (100 miles) in my legs looks a bit daunting.
>
> My initial thoughts are either a triple 52/42/30 which would get me down to
> 29 with my 12-27 or sticking with the 53/39 and going for a 12-34 cassette
> to give 29.9.
>
> I would welcome any advice on the most economical way to go. Mostly this
> comes down to what will work with what. E.g. will a triple fit on my current
> bottom bracket. Can I cut the cost by using a 105 or perhaps a lower spec (I
> doubt if I'll use the kit for more than one or two of these adventures).
> Will my current Ultegra front mech shift a triple. What rear mech can I get
> to shift a 12-34 and if not Ultegra will it be compatible with my Ultegra
> STIs etc
Cheap and good? Easy. Every cassette is easily disassembled.Just punch
out the rivets that are there as a convenience. Build your own with
the cogs you need. Are you willing to descend, pushing a 53-12 ? If
not, give up the 12, and maybe the 21 to make room for 28t and 34t
cogs. The Ultegra will certainly handle the 28. a 34? You'll need to
try it. Or spend $60 on a long cage Ultegra.
Stay Shimano and STI will work. You're just going to sacrifice some
speed in the shifts. And of course you want to lengthen the chain to
not risk breaking it.
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Date: 14 Oct 2007 09:12:11
From: Ron Ruff
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
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I think the cheapest solution is an inexpensive Shimano MTB rear
deraileur and 12-34 cassette... if you are sure this will be a low
enough gear. Don't get a Ritchey crank... they break.
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Date: 14 Oct 2007 08:37:56
From: JG
Subject: Re: Climbing gears
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You will need a new BB and a new front derailleur, and, of course, you
will need a rear derailleur which can wrap enough chain.
Either you should go whole hog - get a Campy triple setup nice and
ecomonical!!! - and use a 12-21 for your regular riding,
or perhaps you could use something like a Ritchey octalink compact
(50-34) and a 12-32 which should allow you to keep the rest of the
stuff intact...
JG
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