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Main
Date: 21 Aug 2007 08:29:41
From: bicycle_disciple
Subject: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
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Simple question.
Would the FSA K force Light with mega EXO BB be compatible with my 9
speed shimano DA drivetrain?
Competitivecyclist mechanics tell me they have tried it , but I
figured confirmation from some more parties attesting to smooth
functioning will seal the question.
What has any one got to say about chainring durability of the same? I
was thinking of running a wipperman titanium chain so I'm worried
about premature wear.. In this case, what would be more superior, an
aluminium chainring or something say from Stronglight, with their
ceramic coated ring surface?
BD
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Date: 23 Aug 2007 00:14:24
From: Donga
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
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On Aug 22, 10:53 am, ron.r.geo...@gmail.com wrote:
Granted I paid a lot for
> the chain, but to make me feel really bad about it with junk science
> is another thing.
You could chop the chain up and use it for non-allergenic jewelry,
e.g. bracelets. Cool! More in line with cost/return than chewing it up
for bike chains and road grit.
Donga
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Date: 22 Aug 2007 10:46:26
From:
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
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On Aug 22, 11:30 am, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu >
wrote:
> ron.r.geo...@gmail.com wrote:
> > You guys are scaring me way too much about my titanium chain, which I
> > haven't thrown on my bike as yet. Its been sitting in my cup board.
>
> > Chain wear is primarily caused by grit. I don't think I'm going to
> > ride my race bike in rainy/muddy conditions all that much, I have my
> > steel bike exclusively for that purpose. All I'm worried about was,
> > which my question reflected, will the Ti chain eat up the FSA
> > chainrings and my shimano ultegra (9speed) cassette.
>
> What would make you think that it would cause more wear on your
> chainrings than a steel chain? People are often under the impression
> that titanium is stronger/harder than steel and lighter than aluminum.
> It is neither. It is stronger and harder than aluminum and lighter than
> steel, but that is not the same.
>
>
>
> > I also do not understand why wippermann particularly wears faster than
> > other chains of the same material, stainless or titanium.
>
> That wasn't what he said. Both stainless steel and titanium are softer,
> and will wear more quickly, than the steels usually used in less
> expensive chains. You are definitely paying far more for a less durable
> product with either of those materials. With titanium, yes, it will be
> lighter, but not that much.
>
> Can you give
>
> > me any first hand sources for this opinion? Granted I paid a lot for
> > the chain, but to make me feel really bad about it with junk science
> > is another thing.
>
> Where is the junk science?
>
> --
>
> David L. Johnson
>
> Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on
> no account be allowed to do the job.
> -- Douglas Adams
David,
Yes maybe you are right that I'm having this wrong impression that Ti
wears chainrings faster than steel. I don't know why I think my
chainrings are going to explode if I run Ti on them. I have also read
that it could wear cassettes faster. Again, I'm not at all sure of
these things. These could be the "junk" science I picked up...
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Date: 22 Aug 2007 10:41:16
From:
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
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On Aug 22, 8:57 am, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net > wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
> > bicycle_disciple wrote:
> >> Simple question.
>
> >> Would the FSA K force Light with mega EXO BB be compatible with my 9
> >> speed shimano DA drivetrain?
>
> > of course.
>
> >> Competitivecyclist mechanics tell me they have tried it , but I
> >> figured confirmation from some more parties attesting to smooth
> >> functioning will seal the question.
>
> >> What has any one got to say about chainring durability of the same? I
> >> was thinking of running a wipperman titanium chain so I'm worried
> >> about premature wear..
>
> > iirc, the wipperman ti chain only has the outer links made of that
> > metal, so the stuff that wears, the inner links, rollers, pins, etc. are
> > still steel. if that's the case, you'll see no difference in wear.
>
> Wrong as usual:
>
> "Wipperman's no-holds-barred racing chain for 10-speed drivetrains. You
> get titanium rollers, hollow pins, and cut-out outer plates for the
> lightest chain imaginable. A mere 235g! "- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks Peter,
No what I actually have is a 9 speed Wippermann Ti chain. The question
now on my mind is, are the rollers made of Ti or Steel?
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Date: 23 Aug 2007 09:10:40
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
|
ron.r.george@gmail.com wrote:
> On Aug 22, 8:57 am, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> jim beam wrote:
>>> bicycle_disciple wrote:
>>>> Simple question.
>>>> Would the FSA K force Light with mega EXO BB be compatible with my 9
>>>> speed shimano DA drivetrain?
>>> of course.
>>>> Competitivecyclist mechanics tell me they have tried it , but I
>>>> figured confirmation from some more parties attesting to smooth
>>>> functioning will seal the question.
>>>> What has any one got to say about chainring durability of the same? I
>>>> was thinking of running a wipperman titanium chain so I'm worried
>>>> about premature wear..
>>> iirc, the wipperman ti chain only has the outer links made of that
>>> metal, so the stuff that wears, the inner links, rollers, pins, etc. are
>>> still steel. if that's the case, you'll see no difference in wear.
>> Wrong as usual:
>>
>> "Wipperman's no-holds-barred racing chain for 10-speed drivetrains. You
>> get titanium rollers, hollow pins, and cut-out outer plates for the
>> lightest chain imaginable. A mere 235g! "- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Thanks Peter,
>
> No what I actually have is a 9 speed Wippermann Ti chain. The question
> now on my mind is, are the rollers made of Ti or Steel?
>
http://www.connexchain.com/
Rollers are Ti.
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Date: 22 Aug 2007 05:14:57
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
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On Aug 21, 4:08 pm, still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:33:27 -0000, "Qui si parla
>
> Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" <pe...@vecchios.com> wrote:
>
> >Titanium chain? Yer $ but it won't do anyting in terms of performance
> >for that $. Like oil in your car, least expensive compatible chain,
> >cogset. Get a Sram or shimano or Wipperman steel chain and use the
> >extra $ to get the Campag or shimano crank.
>
> I have to disagree with your auto oil strategy. All oils are not equal
> and there are advantages to synthetic oils in some engines - despite
> the fact that a lesser oil might meet the minimum specs.
>
> But, to get back on topic, your chain strategy sounds fine.
All oils are tested to a standard and if that oil meets that standard
it will work fine in vast majority of engines. Synthetics are
expensive, and get dirty just like a petroleum oil. 'Some' engines
that operate at extreme conditions in terms of temps and rpms 'may'
benefit but that is at the fringes of the bell curve BUT when John
Force uses Castrol in his 8000 HP car driven for around 5
seconds..must be great for your Subaru...marketing.
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Date: 22 Aug 2007 03:40:42
From:
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
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On Aug 21, 10:42 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net > wrote:
> A Muzi wrote:
snip
> > Nothing about the chainring will affect chain wear in any way.
>
> that's supposition, not fact. wear product from aluminUM becomes
> aluminA, a highly aggressive abrasive.
>
> > Review
> > section 8D, 'tech: chain', here:
> >http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/index.html
>
> these faq's are such crap.
For someone who claims to be a materials guy, you don't seem to have
even a rudimentary knowledge of high school -- no grade school --
science. What person with any knowledge of materials would conflate
the distinction between the crystalline and the amorphous forms of a
material and ascribe the attendant physical properties of one to the
other? Crystalline aluminum oxide is indeed an abrasive -- corundum;
amorphous aluminum oxide, as is formed when the aluminum of
chainwheels is exposed to ambient air, is not.
The next thing you'll be saying is that Tiffany's is crap because the
diamonds they sell are really just coal - both carbon.. Really, I
think maybe it's just you that is full of crap.
--
Spike
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Date: 22 Aug 2007 05:46:54
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
|
spikenettles@earthlink.net wrote:
> On Aug 21, 10:42 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> A Muzi wrote:
>
> snip
>
>>> Nothing about the chainring will affect chain wear in any way.
>> that's supposition, not fact. wear product from aluminUM becomes
>> aluminA, a highly aggressive abrasive.
>>
>>> Review
>>> section 8D, 'tech: chain', here:
>>> http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/index.html
>> these faq's are such crap.
>
> For someone who claims to be a materials guy, you don't seem to have
> even a rudimentary knowledge of high school -- no grade school --
> science. What person with any knowledge of materials would conflate
> the distinction between the crystalline and the amorphous forms of a
> material and ascribe the attendant physical properties of one to the
> other? Crystalline aluminum oxide is indeed an abrasive -- corundum;
> amorphous aluminum oxide, as is formed when the aluminum of
> chainwheels is exposed to ambient air, is not.
eh? what's the particle size? below ~1/4 micron, even diamond is "not
abrasive". alumina being amorphous [which is debatable btw] doesn't
mean it's not abrasive - just like broken glass is not a lubricant.
>
> The next thing you'll be saying is that Tiffany's is crap because the
> diamonds they sell are really just coal - both carbon.. Really, I
> think maybe it's just you that is full of crap.
i think you need to chill.
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Date: 22 Aug 2007 11:18:29
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
|
jim beam wrote:
> spikenettles@earthlink.net wrote:
>> On Aug 21, 10:42 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>> A Muzi wrote:
>>
>> snip
>>
>>>> Nothing about the chainring will affect chain wear in any way.
>>> that's supposition, not fact. wear product from aluminUM becomes
>>> aluminA, a highly aggressive abrasive.
>>>
>>>> Review
>>>> section 8D, 'tech: chain', here:
>>>> http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/index.html
>>> these faq's are such crap.
>>
>> For someone who claims to be a materials guy, you don't seem to have
>> even a rudimentary knowledge of high school -- no grade school --
>> science. What person with any knowledge of materials would conflate
>> the distinction between the crystalline and the amorphous forms of a
>> material and ascribe the attendant physical properties of one to the
>> other? Crystalline aluminum oxide is indeed an abrasive -- corundum;
>> amorphous aluminum oxide, as is formed when the aluminum of
>> chainwheels is exposed to ambient air, is not.
>
> eh? what's the particle size? below ~1/4 micron, even diamond is "not
> abrasive". alumina being amorphous [which is debatable btw] doesn't
> mean it's not abrasive - just like broken glass is not a lubricant.
From wikipedia:
"The alumina generated by anodising is typically amorphous, but
discharge assisted oxidation processes such as plasma electrolytic
oxidation result in a significant proportion of crystalline alumina in
the coating, enhancing its hardness."
From the description on the Middleburn site, I think the process for
its rings might well be PEO, it's not anodizing.
I've often wondered how ceramic coatings on wheel rims were fabricated.
I've assumed plasma spray. I don't think the Middleburn rings are plasma
sprayed.
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Date: 21 Aug 2007 20:48:04
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
|
bicycle_disciple wrote:
> Simple question.
>
> Would the FSA K force Light with mega EXO BB be compatible with my 9
> speed shimano DA drivetrain?
of course.
>
> Competitivecyclist mechanics tell me they have tried it , but I
> figured confirmation from some more parties attesting to smooth
> functioning will seal the question.
>
> What has any one got to say about chainring durability of the same? I
> was thinking of running a wipperman titanium chain so I'm worried
> about premature wear..
iirc, the wipperman ti chain only has the outer links made of that
metal, so the stuff that wears, the inner links, rollers, pins, etc. are
still steel. if that's the case, you'll see no difference in wear.
> In this case, what would be more superior, an
> aluminium chainring or something say from Stronglight, with their
> ceramic coated ring surface?
"ceramic coated"? what does that mean? anodized? if it's a wear
resistant ceramic or a thick anodizing, it can indeed protect
significantly against wear - of the chainring. but chainring wear rates
are slow compared to chain wear rates so the value is debatable if
you're a dry weather rider.
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Date: 22 Aug 2007 10:04:18
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
|
jim beam wrote:
> "ceramic coated"? what does that mean? anodized? if it's a wear
> resistant ceramic or a thick anodizing, it can indeed protect
> significantly against wear - of the chainring. but chainring wear rates
> are slow compared to chain wear rates so the value is debatable if
> you're a dry weather rider.
From Middleburn:
Hardcote FAQ
10x Less Friction… 4x Wear Resistance…
Hardcote Chainrings are layered with a technically advanced ceramic
coating, the Hardcoat layer is 5x thicker than modern coloured anodising
and its constant refinement over many years of top level use now ensures
it is more resistant and effective than ever before.
The unique formula serves two crucial purposes, firstly with a friction
coefficient 10x less than hard anodising it reduces chainsuck and
improves shifting performance. Secondly Hardcote provides up to 4x wear
resistance than conventional hard anodising, increasing the life of your
drive-train.
Stronglight probably uses similar/same process, maybe OEM's.
I doubt that the coating lasts long on the tooth profile -- the critical
wear surface -- but I could be wrong.
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Date: 22 Aug 2007 08:57:54
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
|
jim beam wrote:
> bicycle_disciple wrote:
>> Simple question.
>>
>> Would the FSA K force Light with mega EXO BB be compatible with my 9
>> speed shimano DA drivetrain?
>
> of course.
>
>>
>> Competitivecyclist mechanics tell me they have tried it , but I
>> figured confirmation from some more parties attesting to smooth
>> functioning will seal the question.
>>
>> What has any one got to say about chainring durability of the same? I
>> was thinking of running a wipperman titanium chain so I'm worried
>> about premature wear..
>
> iirc, the wipperman ti chain only has the outer links made of that
> metal, so the stuff that wears, the inner links, rollers, pins, etc. are
> still steel. if that's the case, you'll see no difference in wear.
Wrong as usual:
"Wipperman's no-holds-barred racing chain for 10-speed drivetrains. You
get titanium rollers, hollow pins, and cut-out outer plates for the
lightest chain imaginable. A mere 235g! "
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Date: 22 Aug 2007 21:14:05
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
|
Peter Cole wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> bicycle_disciple wrote:
>>> Simple question.
>>>
>>> Would the FSA K force Light with mega EXO BB be compatible with my 9
>>> speed shimano DA drivetrain?
>>
>> of course.
>>
>>>
>>> Competitivecyclist mechanics tell me they have tried it , but I
>>> figured confirmation from some more parties attesting to smooth
>>> functioning will seal the question.
>>>
>>> What has any one got to say about chainring durability of the same? I
>>> was thinking of running a wipperman titanium chain so I'm worried
>>> about premature wear..
>>
>> iirc, the wipperman ti chain only has the outer links made of that
>> metal, so the stuff that wears, the inner links, rollers, pins, etc.
>> are still steel. if that's the case, you'll see no difference in wear.
>
> Wrong as usual:
>
> "Wipperman's no-holds-barred racing chain for 10-speed drivetrains. You
> get titanium rollers, hollow pins, and cut-out outer plates for the
> lightest chain imaginable. A mere 235g! "
stop being a prick.
1. i said "iirc"
2. http://www.vikinginternational.com/about.htm
oh dear, steel.
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Date: 23 Aug 2007 09:12:15
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
|
jim beam wrote:
> Peter Cole wrote:
>> jim beam wrote:
>>> bicycle_disciple wrote:
>>>> Simple question.
>>>>
>>>> Would the FSA K force Light with mega EXO BB be compatible with my 9
>>>> speed shimano DA drivetrain?
>>>
>>> of course.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Competitivecyclist mechanics tell me they have tried it , but I
>>>> figured confirmation from some more parties attesting to smooth
>>>> functioning will seal the question.
>>>>
>>>> What has any one got to say about chainring durability of the same? I
>>>> was thinking of running a wipperman titanium chain so I'm worried
>>>> about premature wear..
>>>
>>> iirc, the wipperman ti chain only has the outer links made of that
>>> metal, so the stuff that wears, the inner links, rollers, pins, etc.
>>> are still steel. if that's the case, you'll see no difference in wear.
>>
>> Wrong as usual:
>>
>> "Wipperman's no-holds-barred racing chain for 10-speed drivetrains.
>> You get titanium rollers, hollow pins, and cut-out outer plates for
>> the lightest chain imaginable. A mere 235g! "
>
> stop being a prick.
Why bother to look things up? You're "jim beam".
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Date: 23 Aug 2007 20:43:29
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
|
Peter Cole wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> Peter Cole wrote:
>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>> bicycle_disciple wrote:
>>>>> Simple question.
>>>>>
>>>>> Would the FSA K force Light with mega EXO BB be compatible with my 9
>>>>> speed shimano DA drivetrain?
>>>>
>>>> of course.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Competitivecyclist mechanics tell me they have tried it , but I
>>>>> figured confirmation from some more parties attesting to smooth
>>>>> functioning will seal the question.
>>>>>
>>>>> What has any one got to say about chainring durability of the same? I
>>>>> was thinking of running a wipperman titanium chain so I'm worried
>>>>> about premature wear..
>>>>
>>>> iirc, the wipperman ti chain only has the outer links made of that
>>>> metal, so the stuff that wears, the inner links, rollers, pins, etc.
>>>> are still steel. if that's the case, you'll see no difference in wear.
>>>
>>> Wrong as usual:
>>>
>>> "Wipperman's no-holds-barred racing chain for 10-speed drivetrains.
>>> You get titanium rollers, hollow pins, and cut-out outer plates for
>>> the lightest chain imaginable. A mere 235g! "
>>
>> stop being a prick.
>
> Why bother to look things up? You're "jim beam".
why bother to post if you're going to censor the stuff that makes you
look like a prick?
"2. http://www.vikinginternational.com/about.htm
oh dear, steel. "
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Date: 24 Aug 2007 07:13:51
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
|
jim beam wrote:
> Peter Cole wrote:
>> jim beam wrote:
>>> Peter Cole wrote:
>>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>>> bicycle_disciple wrote:
>>>>>> Simple question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would the FSA K force Light with mega EXO BB be compatible with my 9
>>>>>> speed shimano DA drivetrain?
>>>>>
>>>>> of course.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Competitivecyclist mechanics tell me they have tried it , but I
>>>>>> figured confirmation from some more parties attesting to smooth
>>>>>> functioning will seal the question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What has any one got to say about chainring durability of the same? I
>>>>>> was thinking of running a wipperman titanium chain so I'm worried
>>>>>> about premature wear..
>>>>>
>>>>> iirc, the wipperman ti chain only has the outer links made of that
>>>>> metal, so the stuff that wears, the inner links, rollers, pins,
>>>>> etc. are still steel. if that's the case, you'll see no difference
>>>>> in wear.
>>>>
>>>> Wrong as usual:
>>>>
>>>> "Wipperman's no-holds-barred racing chain for 10-speed drivetrains.
>>>> You get titanium rollers, hollow pins, and cut-out outer plates for
>>>> the lightest chain imaginable. A mere 235g! "
>>>
>>> stop being a prick.
>>
>> Why bother to look things up? You're "jim beam".
>
> why bother to post if you're going to censor the stuff that makes you
> look like a prick?
>
> "2. http://www.vikinginternational.com/about.htm
>
> oh dear, steel. "
Sorry, you were only 2/3 wrong.
|
| |
Date: 21 Aug 2007 17:53:06
From:
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
|
On Aug 21, 12:33 pm, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
<pe...@vecchios.com > wrote:
> On Aug 21, 9:29 am, bicycle_disciple <1.crazyboy.o...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Simple question.
>
> > Would the FSA K force Light with mega EXO BB be compatible with my 9
> > speed shimano DA drivetrain?
>
> yes
>
>
>
> > Competitivecyclist mechanics tell me they have tried it , but I
> > figured confirmation from some more parties attesting to smooth
> > functioning will seal the question.
>
> > What has any one got to say about chainring durability of the same? I
> > was thinking of running a wipperman titanium chain so I'm worried
> > about premature wear.. In this case, what would be more superior, an
> > aluminium chainring or something say from Stronglight, with their
> > ceramic coated ring surface?
>
> > BD
>
> FSA rings and BBs are not the most robust things I have seen. For the
> $, I think a Campag Chorus is a better choice. iffa ya want carbon.
>
> Titanium chain? Yer $ but it won't do anyting in terms of performance
> for that $. Like oil in your car, least expensive compatible chain,
> cogset. Get a Sram or shimano or Wipperman steel chain and use the
> extra $ to get the Campag or shimano crank.
I've decided my mind on getting the fsa k force light crank. Its
strong, and I like the ceramic BB.
You guys are scaring me way too much about my titanium chain, which I
haven't thrown on my bike as yet. Its been sitting in my cup board.
Chain wear is primarily caused by grit. I don't think I'm going to
ride my race bike in rainy/muddy conditions all that much, I have my
steel bike exclusively for that purpose. All I'm worried about was,
which my question reflected, will the Ti chain eat up the FSA
chainrings and my shimano ultegra (9speed) cassette.
I also do not understand why wippermann particularly wears faster than
other chains of the same material, stainless or titanium. Can you give
me any first hand sources for this opinion? Granted I paid a lot for
the chain, but to make me feel really bad about it with junk science
is another thing.
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 11:30:45
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
|
ron.r.george@gmail.com wrote:
> You guys are scaring me way too much about my titanium chain, which I
> haven't thrown on my bike as yet. Its been sitting in my cup board.
>
> Chain wear is primarily caused by grit. I don't think I'm going to
> ride my race bike in rainy/muddy conditions all that much, I have my
> steel bike exclusively for that purpose. All I'm worried about was,
> which my question reflected, will the Ti chain eat up the FSA
> chainrings and my shimano ultegra (9speed) cassette.
What would make you think that it would cause more wear on your
chainrings than a steel chain? People are often under the impression
that titanium is stronger/harder than steel and lighter than aluminum.
It is neither. It is stronger and harder than aluminum and lighter than
steel, but that is not the same.
>
> I also do not understand why wippermann particularly wears faster than
> other chains of the same material, stainless or titanium.
That wasn't what he said. Both stainless steel and titanium are softer,
and will wear more quickly, than the steels usually used in less
expensive chains. You are definitely paying far more for a less durable
product with either of those materials. With titanium, yes, it will be
lighter, but not that much.
Can you give
> me any first hand sources for this opinion? Granted I paid a lot for
> the chain, but to make me feel really bad about it with junk science
> is another thing.
Where is the junk science?
--
David L. Johnson
Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on
no account be allowed to do the job.
-- Douglas Adams
|
| | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 17:24:23
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
|
> ron.r.george@gmail.com wrote:
>> You guys are scaring me way too much about my titanium chain, which I
>> haven't thrown on my bike as yet. Its been sitting in my cup board.
>> Chain wear is primarily caused by grit. I don't think I'm going to
>> ride my race bike in rainy/muddy conditions all that much, I have my
>> steel bike exclusively for that purpose. All I'm worried about was,
>> which my question reflected, will the Ti chain eat up the FSA
>> chainrings and my shimano ultegra (9speed) cassette.
David L. Johnson wrote:
> What would make you think that it would cause more wear on your
> chainrings than a steel chain? People are often under the impression
> that titanium is stronger/harder than steel and lighter than aluminum.
> It is neither. It is stronger and harder than aluminum and lighter than
> steel, but that is not the same.
> ron.r.george@gmail.com wrote:
>> I also do not understand why wippermann particularly wears faster than
>> other chains of the same material, stainless or titanium.
David L. Johnson wrote:
> That wasn't what he said. Both stainless steel and titanium are softer,
> and will wear more quickly, than the steels usually used in less
> expensive chains. You are definitely paying far more for a less durable
> product with either of those materials. With titanium, yes, it will be
> lighter, but not that much.
> ron.r.george@gmail.com wrote:
> Can you give
>> me any first hand sources for this opinion? Granted I paid a lot for
>> the chain, but to make me feel really bad about it with junk science
>> is another thing.
David L. Johnson wrote:
> Where is the junk science?
If the OP were to stop at an LBS and get a scrap of ti to file/hacksaw
many aspects of Ti may be better understood. Ti cuts/files more easily
and specifically wears faster than steel, as David notes. It's also
highly reactive with other metals contrary to myth.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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| | | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 21:13:54
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
|
A Muzi wrote:
>> ron.r.george@gmail.com wrote:
>>> You guys are scaring me way too much about my titanium chain, which I
>>> haven't thrown on my bike as yet. Its been sitting in my cup board.
>>> Chain wear is primarily caused by grit. I don't think I'm going to
>>> ride my race bike in rainy/muddy conditions all that much, I have my
>>> steel bike exclusively for that purpose. All I'm worried about was,
>>> which my question reflected, will the Ti chain eat up the FSA
>>> chainrings and my shimano ultegra (9speed) cassette.
>
> David L. Johnson wrote:
>> What would make you think that it would cause more wear on your
>> chainrings than a steel chain? People are often under the impression
>> that titanium is stronger/harder than steel and lighter than aluminum.
>> It is neither. It is stronger and harder than aluminum and lighter
>> than steel, but that is not the same.
>
>> ron.r.george@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I also do not understand why wippermann particularly wears faster than
>>> other chains of the same material, stainless or titanium.
>
> David L. Johnson wrote:
>> That wasn't what he said. Both stainless steel and titanium are
>> softer, and will wear more quickly, than the steels usually used in
>> less expensive chains. You are definitely paying far more for a less
>> durable product with either of those materials. With titanium, yes,
>> it will be lighter, but not that much.
>
>> ron.r.george@gmail.com wrote:
>> Can you give
>>> me any first hand sources for this opinion? Granted I paid a lot for
>>> the chain, but to make me feel really bad about it with junk science
>>> is another thing.
>
> David L. Johnson wrote:
>> Where is the junk science?
>
> If the OP were to stop at an LBS and get a scrap of ti to file/hacksaw
> many aspects of Ti may be better understood. Ti cuts/files more easily
> and specifically wears faster than steel,
um, that really depends on grade. you'll cut c.p. ti easily enough, but
not a fully hard bolt grade for instance.
> as David notes. It's also
> highly reactive with other metals contrary to myth.
kinda. it can be highly inert regarding the corrosive elements that
afflict most other metals.
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Date: 22 Aug 2007 09:10:51
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
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ron.r.george@gmail.com wrote:
> I also do not understand why wippermann particularly wears faster than
> other chains of the same material, stainless or titanium. Can you give
> me any first hand sources for this opinion? Granted I paid a lot for
> the chain, but to make me feel really bad about it with junk science
> is another thing.
>
"Wipperman's no-holds-barred racing chain for 10-speed drivetrains. You
get titanium rollers, hollow pins, and cut-out outer plates for the
lightest chain imaginable. A mere 235g!"
"Super narrow 10-speed HG chain matches the rest of Shimano’s new 5600
10-speed 105 group, or is a nice affordable replacement chain for
10-speed Ultegra or Dura-Ace. Includes two ampule type connector pins.
116 links. Grey. 280 grams."
Roughly $6.50/g
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Date: 21 Aug 2007 18:38:32
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
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bicycle_disciple wrote:
> Simple question.
>
> Would the FSA K force Light with mega EXO BB be compatible with my 9
> speed shimano DA drivetrain?
>
> Competitivecyclist mechanics tell me they have tried it , but I
> figured confirmation from some more parties attesting to smooth
> functioning will seal the question.
>
> What has any one got to say about chainring durability of the same? I
> was thinking of running a wipperman titanium chain so I'm worried
> about premature wear.. In this case, what would be more superior, an
> aluminium chainring or something say from Stronglight, with their
> ceramic coated ring surface?
Right, no compatibility issues with that crank. Review prior discussions
here for further comments on that product.
Chain? Maybe not so simple a question.
Wippermann stainless and titanium chains wear out significantly faster
than standard nine chain - which is already pretty darned fast (at least
to greybeards who consider a Sedis 4D wear rate 'normal').
Nothing about the chainring will affect chain wear in any way. Review
section 8D, 'tech: chain', here:
http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/index.html
Nor will one chain or another wear your chainring at a different rate,
which is slow in any event. Side scuffing from upshifts may be unsightly
but that's about it. Note comments in 'tech: chain' linked above.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 21 Aug 2007 20:42:41
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
|
A Muzi wrote:
> bicycle_disciple wrote:
>> Simple question.
>>
>> Would the FSA K force Light with mega EXO BB be compatible with my 9
>> speed shimano DA drivetrain?
>>
>> Competitivecyclist mechanics tell me they have tried it , but I
>> figured confirmation from some more parties attesting to smooth
>> functioning will seal the question.
>>
>> What has any one got to say about chainring durability of the same? I
>> was thinking of running a wipperman titanium chain so I'm worried
>> about premature wear.. In this case, what would be more superior, an
>> aluminium chainring or something say from Stronglight, with their
>> ceramic coated ring surface?
>
> Right, no compatibility issues with that crank. Review prior discussions
> here for further comments on that product.
>
> Chain? Maybe not so simple a question.
> Wippermann stainless and titanium chains wear out significantly faster
> than standard nine chain - which is already pretty darned fast (at least
> to greybeards who consider a Sedis 4D wear rate 'normal').
>
> Nothing about the chainring will affect chain wear in any way.
that's supposition, not fact. wear product from aluminUM becomes
aluminA, a highly aggressive abrasive.
> Review
> section 8D, 'tech: chain', here:
> http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/index.html
these faq's are such crap.
>
> Nor will one chain or another wear your chainring at a different rate,
> which is slow in any event. Side scuffing from upshifts may be unsightly
> but that's about it. Note comments in 'tech: chain' linked above.
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Date: 22 Aug 2007 09:13:35
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
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jim beam wrote:
> A Muzi wrote:
>> Nothing about the chainring will affect chain wear in any way.
>
> that's supposition, not fact. wear product from aluminUM becomes
> aluminA, a highly aggressive abrasive.
How does the "aluminA" get to the pin?
>
>> Review section 8D, 'tech: chain', here:
>> http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/index.html
>
> these faq's are such crap.
Sill waiting for yours.
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Date: 22 Aug 2007 21:14:12
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
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Peter Cole wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> A Muzi wrote:
>
>>> Nothing about the chainring will affect chain wear in any way.
>>
>> that's supposition, not fact. wear product from aluminUM becomes
>> aluminA, a highly aggressive abrasive.
>
> How does the "aluminA" get to the pin?
via suspension in the lube - just like road grit.
>
>
>
>>
>>> Review section 8D, 'tech: chain', here:
>>> http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/index.html
>>
>> these faq's are such crap.
>
> Sill waiting for yours.
>
one day.
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Date: 21 Aug 2007 14:43:13
From: bfd
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
|
On Aug 21, 10:16 am, SocSecTrainWr...@earthlink.net wrote:
> On Aug 21, 12:33 pm, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
>
>
>
>
>
> <pe...@vecchios.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 21, 9:29 am, bicycle_disciple <1.crazyboy.o...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Simple question.
>
> > > Would the FSA K force Light with mega EXO BB be compatible with my 9
> > > speed shimano DA drivetrain?
>
> > yes
>
> > > Competitivecyclist mechanics tell me they have tried it , but I
> > > figured confirmation from some more parties attesting to smooth
> > > functioning will seal the question.
>
> > > What has any one got to say about chainring durability of the same? I
> > > was thinking of running a wipperman titanium chain so I'm worried
> > > about premature wear.. In this case, what would be more superior, an
> > > aluminium chainring or something say from Stronglight, with their
> > > ceramic coated ring surface?
>
> > > BD
>
> > FSA rings and BBs are not the most robust things I have seen. For the
> > $, I think a Campag Chorus is a better choice. iffa ya want carbon.
>
> > Titanium chain? Yer $ but it won't do anyting in terms of performance
> > for that $. Like oil in your car, least expensive compatible chain,
> > cogset. Get a Sram or shimano or Wipperman steel chain and use the
> > extra $ to get the Campag or shimano crank.
>
> Why not get the slotted hollow pin SRAM chain? You save pounds by
> saving bunches of ounces, and ounces by saving bunches of grams but
> the cost/service life ratio on a titanium chain sounds scary to me.- Hide quoted text -
>
Agree, this really sounds kind of goofy! Why would anyone want to
spend the $$$ on a ti chain, its a CONSUMABLE!?! What that means is
it is suppose to WEAR FAST. Thus, you'll be flushing your money down
the drain with little, if any, benefit.
Of course, if ya got it to spare, or never ride, then by all means go
for it!!!
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Date: 21 Aug 2007 10:16:53
From:
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
|
On Aug 21, 12:33 pm, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
<pe...@vecchios.com > wrote:
> On Aug 21, 9:29 am, bicycle_disciple <1.crazyboy.o...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Simple question.
>
> > Would the FSA K force Light with mega EXO BB be compatible with my 9
> > speed shimano DA drivetrain?
>
> yes
>
>
>
> > Competitivecyclist mechanics tell me they have tried it , but I
> > figured confirmation from some more parties attesting to smooth
> > functioning will seal the question.
>
> > What has any one got to say about chainring durability of the same? I
> > was thinking of running a wipperman titanium chain so I'm worried
> > about premature wear.. In this case, what would be more superior, an
> > aluminium chainring or something say from Stronglight, with their
> > ceramic coated ring surface?
>
> > BD
>
> FSA rings and BBs are not the most robust things I have seen. For the
> $, I think a Campag Chorus is a better choice. iffa ya want carbon.
>
> Titanium chain? Yer $ but it won't do anyting in terms of performance
> for that $. Like oil in your car, least expensive compatible chain,
> cogset. Get a Sram or shimano or Wipperman steel chain and use the
> extra $ to get the Campag or shimano crank.
Why not get the slotted hollow pin SRAM chain? You save pounds by
saving bunches of ounces, and ounces by saving bunches of grams but
the cost/service life ratio on a titanium chain sounds scary to me.
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Date: 21 Aug 2007 16:33:27
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
|
On Aug 21, 9:29 am, bicycle_disciple <1.crazyboy.o...@gmail.com >
wrote:
> Simple question.
>
> Would the FSA K force Light with mega EXO BB be compatible with my 9
> speed shimano DA drivetrain?
yes
>
> Competitivecyclist mechanics tell me they have tried it , but I
> figured confirmation from some more parties attesting to smooth
> functioning will seal the question.
>
> What has any one got to say about chainring durability of the same? I
> was thinking of running a wipperman titanium chain so I'm worried
> about premature wear.. In this case, what would be more superior, an
> aluminium chainring or something say from Stronglight, with their
> ceramic coated ring surface?
>
> BD
FSA rings and BBs are not the most robust things I have seen. For the
$, I think a Campag Chorus is a better choice. iffa ya want carbon.
Titanium chain? Yer $ but it won't do anyting in terms of performance
for that $. Like oil in your car, least expensive compatible chain,
cogset. Get a Sram or shimano or Wipperman steel chain and use the
extra $ to get the Campag or shimano crank.
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Date: 21 Aug 2007 22:08:24
From: still me
Subject: Re: Crankset compatibility and titanium chain wear
|
On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:33:27 -0000, "Qui si parla
Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" <peter@vecchios.com > wrote:
>
>Titanium chain? Yer $ but it won't do anyting in terms of performance
>for that $. Like oil in your car, least expensive compatible chain,
>cogset. Get a Sram or shimano or Wipperman steel chain and use the
>extra $ to get the Campag or shimano crank.
I have to disagree with your auto oil strategy. All oils are not equal
and there are advantages to synthetic oils in some engines - despite
the fact that a lesser oil might meet the minimum specs.
But, to get back on topic, your chain strategy sounds fine.
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