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Main
Date: 12 Nov 2007 04:55:12
From:
Subject: Crappy Shimano shoes
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Many years ago, I purchased a pair of Shimano touring shoes: lace-ups
with a single velcro strap. I was extremely satisfied with these
shoes--they were comfortable, durable, versatile and also quite
handsome. Once I ran approximately 20 km in the Gatineau hills in
them, with no consequent damage either to the shoes or to my feet. I
replaced them with a similar pair with essentially the same design,
although nominally a different manufacturer (Louis Garneaux of
Canada), which I was equally happy with.
I have now thrown out the latter pair as they were completely worn
out, and replaced them with another pair of Shimano shoes. These also
have a velcro strap, but a slightly different last. The last is just
as comfortable as the other two pairs, but the sole is terrible. For
one, it is much thinner, so that even when new, the cleat sticks out
while walking on smooth surfaces. They are also very slippery. Even
after removing the cleats to get rid of the constant grating while
walking, my feet still slip on wet surfaces.
I think this is yet another example of manufacturers saving money by
catering to a specific type of user. They figure that the majority
are only going to walk a few dozen meters in them per ride, say from
the bike to the coffee shop and back. But there are some users
(namely tourists) who will want to get of the bike from time to time
and walk considerable distances. I once walked over three miles in my
old shoes along the Appalachian Trail at night, in the middle of a
rainstorm while carrying my bicycle panniers. With the new ones, I
don't think I could repeat that feat!
What does everyone else think?
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Date: 15 Nov 2007 19:41:16
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
On Nov 15, 5:31 pm, Ted Bennett <tedbenn...@earthlink.net > wrote:
> In article
> <37403215-3fbe-4e10-bc38-bf51ee109...@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
> Jay Beattie <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 14, 7:21 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Jay Beattie wrote:
> > > > On Nov 14, 8:30 am, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > > >>>>>> I think this is yet another example of manufacturers saving money by
> > > >>>>>> catering to a specific type of user. They figure that the majority
> > > >>>>>> are only going to walk a few dozen meters in them per ride, say from
> > > >>>>>> the bike to the coffee shop and back.
> > > >>>> russellseat...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > >>>>> So you're complaining that the huge, mass market, ubiquitous company
> > > >>>>> of Shimano caters to the majority of cyclists needs? If you have
> > > >>>>> narrowly defined needs for gear, you will likely have to search out
> > > >>>>> smaller companies who cater to niches where they can be profitable
> > > >>>>> and
> > > >>>>> not compete against the huge mass marketer. This is how the market
> > > >>>>> based world usually works for most products. Bikes, clothes, cars,
> > > >>>>> etc. etc.
> > > >>> Andrew Muzi wrote:
> > > >>>> but that system exploits Tom Sherman! The Man be keepin' him down!
> > > >> Tom Sherman wrote:
> > > >>> Does not that same system produce sub-middle class incomes for most LBS
> > > >>> owners?
> > > >>> Well the only shoes that work for me that I have found so far are SiDi
> > > >>> "Mega" sizes - I think they used a mold of my feet for the last!
> > > >>> Shimano
> > > >>> shoes are too tight, squash my toes together and cause my feet to go
> > > >>> numb.
> > > >> On that I heartily agree - SiDi rocks! Is there a Dino Signorelli fan
> > > >> club?
>
> > > >> On income, yes, LBS owners hopefully earn an income (else why bother?).
> > > >> At least most years, on average. Sometimes. Others choose a salaried
> > > >> job.
>
> > > >> Those who are more avaricious take a night school MBA and move on, work
> > > >> a second job, a home business or two, marry up or whatever. If income
> > > >> counts for more than other things, an individual may maximize it.
> > > >> Choices, Tom, choices.
>
> > > > You are earning a middle-class income? That's too bad. I was trying
> > > > to keep you down. I better try harder. -- The Man.
>
> > > Why are you trying to keep Andrew down, Jay?
>
> > Spite, anger and the furtherance of the Big Conspiracy. Do you know
> > how stressful it is being The Man? -- The Man.
>
> First thing to do, is kill all the lawyers.
>
> --
> Ted Bennett- Hide quoted text -
That's apparently the plan in Pakistan. -- Jay Beattie.
|
| |
Date: 15 Nov 2007 08:45:46
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
On Nov 14, 7:21 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com >
wrote:
> Jay Beattie wrote:
> > On Nov 14, 8:30 am, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>>>> I think this is yet another example of manufacturers saving money by
> >>>>>> catering to a specific type of user. They figure that the majority
> >>>>>> are only going to walk a few dozen meters in them per ride, say from
> >>>>>> the bike to the coffee shop and back.
> >>>> russellseat...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>> So you're complaining that the huge, mass market, ubiquitous company
> >>>>> of Shimano caters to the majority of cyclists needs? If you have
> >>>>> narrowly defined needs for gear, you will likely have to search out
> >>>>> smaller companies who cater to niches where they can be profitable and
> >>>>> not compete against the huge mass marketer. This is how the market
> >>>>> based world usually works for most products. Bikes, clothes, cars,
> >>>>> etc. etc.
> >>> Andrew Muzi wrote:
> >>>> but that system exploits Tom Sherman! The Man be keepin' him down!
> >> Tom Sherman wrote:
> >>> Does not that same system produce sub-middle class incomes for most LBS
> >>> owners?
> >>> Well the only shoes that work for me that I have found so far are SiDi
> >>> "Mega" sizes - I think they used a mold of my feet for the last! Shimano
> >>> shoes are too tight, squash my toes together and cause my feet to go numb.
> >> On that I heartily agree - SiDi rocks! Is there a Dino Signorelli fan club?
>
> >> On income, yes, LBS owners hopefully earn an income (else why bother?).
> >> At least most years, on average. Sometimes. Others choose a salaried job.
>
> >> Those who are more avaricious take a night school MBA and move on, work
> >> a second job, a home business or two, marry up or whatever. If income
> >> counts for more than other things, an individual may maximize it.
> >> Choices, Tom, choices.
>
> > You are earning a middle-class income? That's too bad. I was trying
> > to keep you down. I better try harder. -- The Man.
>
> Why are you trying to keep Andrew down, Jay?
Spite, anger and the furtherance of the Big Conspiracy. Do you know
how stressful it is being The Man? -- The Man.
|
| | |
Date: 15 Nov 2007 17:31:59
From: Ted Bennett
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
In article
<37403215-3fbe-4e10-bc38-bf51ee1091c0@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com >,
Jay Beattie <jbeattie@lindsayhart.com > wrote:
> On Nov 14, 7:21 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > Jay Beattie wrote:
> > > On Nov 14, 8:30 am, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>> I think this is yet another example of manufacturers saving money by
> > >>>>>> catering to a specific type of user. They figure that the majority
> > >>>>>> are only going to walk a few dozen meters in them per ride, say from
> > >>>>>> the bike to the coffee shop and back.
> > >>>> russellseat...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >>>>> So you're complaining that the huge, mass market, ubiquitous company
> > >>>>> of Shimano caters to the majority of cyclists needs? If you have
> > >>>>> narrowly defined needs for gear, you will likely have to search out
> > >>>>> smaller companies who cater to niches where they can be profitable
> > >>>>> and
> > >>>>> not compete against the huge mass marketer. This is how the market
> > >>>>> based world usually works for most products. Bikes, clothes, cars,
> > >>>>> etc. etc.
> > >>> Andrew Muzi wrote:
> > >>>> but that system exploits Tom Sherman! The Man be keepin' him down!
> > >> Tom Sherman wrote:
> > >>> Does not that same system produce sub-middle class incomes for most LBS
> > >>> owners?
> > >>> Well the only shoes that work for me that I have found so far are SiDi
> > >>> "Mega" sizes - I think they used a mold of my feet for the last!
> > >>> Shimano
> > >>> shoes are too tight, squash my toes together and cause my feet to go
> > >>> numb.
> > >> On that I heartily agree - SiDi rocks! Is there a Dino Signorelli fan
> > >> club?
> >
> > >> On income, yes, LBS owners hopefully earn an income (else why bother?).
> > >> At least most years, on average. Sometimes. Others choose a salaried
> > >> job.
> >
> > >> Those who are more avaricious take a night school MBA and move on, work
> > >> a second job, a home business or two, marry up or whatever. If income
> > >> counts for more than other things, an individual may maximize it.
> > >> Choices, Tom, choices.
> >
> > > You are earning a middle-class income? That's too bad. I was trying
> > > to keep you down. I better try harder. -- The Man.
> >
> > Why are you trying to keep Andrew down, Jay?
>
> Spite, anger and the furtherance of the Big Conspiracy. Do you know
> how stressful it is being The Man? -- The Man.
First thing to do, is kill all the lawyers.
--
Ted Bennett
|
| |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 16:52:45
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
On Nov 14, 8:30 am, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> >>>> I think this is yet another example of manufacturers saving money by
> >>>> catering to a specific type of user. They figure that the majority
> >>>> are only going to walk a few dozen meters in them per ride, say from
> >>>> the bike to the coffee shop and back.
> >> russellseat...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>> So you're complaining that the huge, mass market, ubiquitous company
> >>> of Shimano caters to the majority of cyclists needs? If you have
> >>> narrowly defined needs for gear, you will likely have to search out
> >>> smaller companies who cater to niches where they can be profitable and
> >>> not compete against the huge mass marketer. This is how the market
> >>> based world usually works for most products. Bikes, clothes, cars,
> >>> etc. etc.
> > Andrew Muzi wrote:
> >> but that system exploits Tom Sherman! The Man be keepin' him down!
> Tom Sherman wrote:
> > Does not that same system produce sub-middle class incomes for most LBS
> > owners?
> > Well the only shoes that work for me that I have found so far are SiDi
> > "Mega" sizes - I think they used a mold of my feet for the last! Shimano
> > shoes are too tight, squash my toes together and cause my feet to go numb.
>
> On that I heartily agree - SiDi rocks! Is there a Dino Signorelli fan club?
>
> On income, yes, LBS owners hopefully earn an income (else why bother?).
> At least most years, on average. Sometimes. Others choose a salaried job.
>
> Those who are more avaricious take a night school MBA and move on, work
> a second job, a home business or two, marry up or whatever. If income
> counts for more than other things, an individual may maximize it.
> Choices, Tom, choices.
You are earning a middle-class income? That's too bad. I was trying
to keep you down. I better try harder. -- The Man.
|
| | |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 21:21:07
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
Jay Beattie wrote:
> On Nov 14, 8:30 am, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>> I think this is yet another example of manufacturers saving money by
>>>>>> catering to a specific type of user. They figure that the majority
>>>>>> are only going to walk a few dozen meters in them per ride, say from
>>>>>> the bike to the coffee shop and back.
>>>> russellseat...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>> So you're complaining that the huge, mass market, ubiquitous company
>>>>> of Shimano caters to the majority of cyclists needs? If you have
>>>>> narrowly defined needs for gear, you will likely have to search out
>>>>> smaller companies who cater to niches where they can be profitable and
>>>>> not compete against the huge mass marketer. This is how the market
>>>>> based world usually works for most products. Bikes, clothes, cars,
>>>>> etc. etc.
>>> Andrew Muzi wrote:
>>>> but that system exploits Tom Sherman! The Man be keepin' him down!
>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>> Does not that same system produce sub-middle class incomes for most LBS
>>> owners?
>>> Well the only shoes that work for me that I have found so far are SiDi
>>> "Mega" sizes - I think they used a mold of my feet for the last! Shimano
>>> shoes are too tight, squash my toes together and cause my feet to go numb.
>> On that I heartily agree - SiDi rocks! Is there a Dino Signorelli fan club?
>>
>> On income, yes, LBS owners hopefully earn an income (else why bother?).
>> At least most years, on average. Sometimes. Others choose a salaried job.
>>
>> Those who are more avaricious take a night school MBA and move on, work
>> a second job, a home business or two, marry up or whatever. If income
>> counts for more than other things, an individual may maximize it.
>> Choices, Tom, choices.
>
> You are earning a middle-class income? That's too bad. I was trying
> to keep you down. I better try harder. -- The Man.
Why are you trying to keep Andrew down, Jay?
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.
|
| |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 06:29:15
From: Art Harris
Subject: Re: Good Shimano shoes
|
Jobst Brandt wrote:
>
> In that event, I wouldn't wait. I'm fortunate that average shoes fit
> my feet.
I see Nashbar has the RT-50 shoes on sale at nearly half off the
normal price.
http://tinyurl.com/23btqz
Unfortunately, they only have up to size 47. I wear size 48 in the
older T0-92 shoe.
Art Harris
|
| |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 02:09:26
From:
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
On Nov 13, 6:47 am, Pikachu <Pika...@pokemon.com > wrote:
> In article <1194872112.436115.34...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> peteymi...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Many years ago, I purchased a pair of Shimano touring shoes: lace-ups
> > with a single velcro strap. I was extremely satisfied with these
> > shoes--they were comfortable, durable, versatile and also quite
> > handsome. Once I ran approximately 20 km in the Gatineau hills in
> > them, with no consequent damage either to the shoes or to my feet. I
> > replaced them with a similar pair with essentially the same design,
> > although nominally a different manufacturer (Louis Garneaux of
> > Canada), which I was equally happy with.
>
> > I have now thrown out the latter pair as they were completely worn
> > out, and replaced them with another pair of Shimano shoes. These also
> > have a velcro strap, but a slightly different last. The last is just
> > as comfortable as the other two pairs, but the sole is terrible. For
> > one, it is much thinner, so that even when new, the cleat sticks out
> > while walking on smooth surfaces. They are also very slippery. Even
> > after removing the cleats to get rid of the constant grating while
> > walking, my feet still slip on wet surfaces.
>
> > I think this is yet another example of manufacturers saving money by
> > catering to a specific type of user. They figure that the majority
> > are only going to walk a few dozen meters in them per ride, say from
> > the bike to the coffee shop and back. But there are some users
> > (namely tourists) who will want to get of the bike from time to time
> > and walk considerable distances. I once walked over three miles in my
> > old shoes along the Appalachian Trail at night, in the middle of a
> > rainstorm while carrying my bicycle panniers. With the new ones, I
> > don't think I could repeat that feat!
>
> > What does everyone else think?
>
> If you're going to do any significant amount of walking, just get normal
> pedals (clips & straps) and wear normal shoes. I commute by bike (<10
> miles round trip) and am too lazy to bring a change of shoes for the
> office. However, I have not found wearing normal, comfortable
> office-type shoes to be of any significant detriment to the commute I do.
>
> I do have and use clipless pedals on my road and mountain bikes, for
> those more "serious" rides.
>
> Pikachu
The whole point of the SPD system is that it gives riders all of the
advantages of cleated shoes for road racing but none of the
disadvantages. No compromises--have your cake and eat it to. If the
shoes are lousy for walking because the manufacturer has under-
designed the sole, then yes, I might as well use the old style Look
bindings or go back to clips and straps.
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| | |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 17:53:51
From: Matt O'Toole
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 02:09:26 -0800, peteymills wrote:
> The whole point of the SPD system is that it gives riders all of the
> advantages of cleated shoes for road racing but none of the
> disadvantages. No compromises--have your cake and eat it to. If the
> shoes are lousy for walking because the manufacturer has under-
> designed the sole, then yes, I might as well use the old style Look
> bindings or go back to clips and straps.
Unfortunately most shoe manufacturers have gone this route, at least with
"road" shoes. I don't understand. This is why I wear "MTB" shoes.
Nashbar has a nice "touring" shoe on sale this week (Shimano RT50), made
like a bike shoe ought to be -- with the cleat recessed into a smooth
sole, and no mud-tracking lugs:
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?sku=22226
I think I'll put my $50 toward another pair of Sidis though.
Strangely, I never see shoes like the RT50 in bike shops.
Matt O.
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| | |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 06:24:06
From: Pikachu
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
In article <1195034966.256144.272330@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com >,
peteymills@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Nov 13, 6:47 am, Pikachu <Pika...@pokemon.com> wrote:
> > In article <1194872112.436115.34...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>,
> > If you're going to do any significant amount of walking, just get normal
> > pedals (clips & straps) and wear normal shoes. I commute by bike (<10
> > miles round trip) and am too lazy to bring a change of shoes for the
> > office. However, I have not found wearing normal, comfortable
> > office-type shoes to be of any significant detriment to the commute I do.
> >
> > I do have and use clipless pedals on my road and mountain bikes, for
> > those more "serious" rides.
> >
> > Pikachu
>
> The whole point of the SPD system is that it gives riders all of the
> advantages of cleated shoes for road racing but none of the
> disadvantages. No compromises--have your cake and eat it to. If the
> shoes are lousy for walking because the manufacturer has under-
> designed the sole, then yes, I might as well use the old style Look
> bindings or go back to clips and straps.
And how does one significantly benefit from having a system designed for
"road racing", if one is not racing? Disadvantages that I see are lack
of selection in shoe design that is appropriate for normal use (such as
at the office), generally harder-than-necessary soles (in context of
using them to walk/run), and having to buy/use special cleated shoes (my
shoe wardrobe is already sizable).
I am not advocating that clipless pedals/shoes are bad, and indeed I do
own quite a few combinations of such. However, if one is having
difficulty procuring a suitably functional pair, there are other options
worth considering, that may be both cheaper and carry other benefits as
well.
Pikachu
|
| | | |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 10:54:15
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
Dans le message de
news:Pikachu-B4CF23.06240614112007@sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net,
Pikachu <Pikachu@pokemon.com > a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> In article <1195034966.256144.272330@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
> peteymills@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Nov 13, 6:47 am, Pikachu <Pika...@pokemon.com> wrote:
>>> In article <1194872112.436115.34...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>,
>>> If you're going to do any significant amount of walking, just get
>>> normal pedals (clips & straps) and wear normal shoes. I commute by
>>> bike (<10 miles round trip) and am too lazy to bring a change of
>>> shoes for the office. However, I have not found wearing normal,
>>> comfortable office-type shoes to be of any significant detriment to
>>> the commute I do.
>>>
>>> I do have and use clipless pedals on my road and mountain bikes, for
>>> those more "serious" rides.
>>>
>>> Pikachu
>>
>> The whole point of the SPD system is that it gives riders all of the
>> advantages of cleated shoes for road racing but none of the
>> disadvantages. No compromises--have your cake and eat it to. If the
>> shoes are lousy for walking because the manufacturer has under-
>> designed the sole, then yes, I might as well use the old style Look
>> bindings or go back to clips and straps.
>
> And how does one significantly benefit from having a system designed
> for "road racing", if one is not racing? Disadvantages that I see
> are lack of selection in shoe design that is appropriate for normal
> use (such as at the office), generally harder-than-necessary soles
> (in context of using them to walk/run), and having to buy/use special
> cleated shoes (my shoe wardrobe is already sizable).
>
> I am not advocating that clipless pedals/shoes are bad, and indeed I
> do own quite a few combinations of such. However, if one is having
> difficulty procuring a suitably functional pair, there are other
> options worth considering, that may be both cheaper and carry other
> benefits as well.
>
> Pikachu
Following your logic, you like eating oatmeal three times a day and don't
ever wash you underwear. Got it.
|
| | | | |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 20:36:50
From: Pikachu
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
In article <473b1a28$0$2303$4c368faf@roadrunner.com >,
"Sandy" <leurrre@free.fr > wrote:
> Dans le message de
> news:Pikachu-B4CF23.06240614112007@sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net,
> Pikachu <Pikachu@pokemon.com> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> >
> > And how does one significantly benefit from having a system designed
> > for "road racing", if one is not racing? Disadvantages that I see
> > are lack of selection in shoe design that is appropriate for normal
> > use (such as at the office), generally harder-than-necessary soles
> > (in context of using them to walk/run), and having to buy/use special
> > cleated shoes (my shoe wardrobe is already sizable).
> >
> > I am not advocating that clipless pedals/shoes are bad, and indeed I
> > do own quite a few combinations of such. However, if one is having
> > difficulty procuring a suitably functional pair, there are other
> > options worth considering, that may be both cheaper and carry other
> > benefits as well.
> >
> > Pikachu
>
> Following your logic, you like eating oatmeal three times a day and don't
> ever wash you underwear. Got it.
Non-sequitur?
Pikachu
|
| |
Date: 13 Nov 2007 21:18:26
From: Joe Riel
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com > writes:
> butbutbut, I am NOT saying the Shimano is an inherently bad shoe, but
> simply pointing out the unfortunate case that Shimano does not make
> shoes for people with wide feet.
Sorry, not a lot of sympathy here 8-). My narrow (AAA) feet make all
shoes too wide.
--
Joe Riel
|
| |
Date: 13 Nov 2007 14:29:19
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
On Nov 13, 11:30 am, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Petey Mills writes:
> > Many years ago, I purchased a pair of Shimano touring shoes:
> > lace-ups with a single Velcro strap. I was extremely satisfied with
> > these shoes--they were comfortable, durable, versatile and also
> > quite handsome. Once I ran approximately 20 km in the Gatineau
> > hills in them, with no consequent damage either to the shoes or to
> > my feet. I replaced them with a similar pair with essentially the
> > same design, although nominally a different manufacturer (Louis
> > Garneaux of Canada), which I was equally happy with.
> > I have now thrown out the latter pair as they were completely worn
> > out, and replaced them with another pair of Shimano shoes. These
> > also have a Velcro strap, but a slightly different last. The last
> > is just as comfortable as the other two pairs, but the sole is
> > terrible. For one, it is much thinner, so that even when new, the
> > cleat sticks out while walking on smooth surfaces. They are also
> > very slippery. Even after removing the cleats to get rid of the
> > constant grating while walking, my feet still slip on wet surfaces.
> > I think this is yet another example of manufacturers saving money by
> > catering to a specific type of user. They figure that the majority
> > are only going to walk a few dozen meters in them per ride, say from
> > the bike to the coffee shop and back. But there are some users
> > (namely tourists) who will want to get of the bike from time to time
> > and walk considerable distances. I once walked over three miles in
> > my old shoes along the Appalachian Trail at night, in the middle of
> > a rainstorm while carrying my bicycle panniers. With the new ones,
> > I don't think I could repeat that feat!
>
> I've been well satisfied with the smooth rubber soled Shimano road
> shoes with a fully recessed SPD cleat:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yxfwd3
>
> I found them good for riding to work, walking about the office and
> wearing them on good floors that are not affected by the recessed
> cleat. They have been available over the years under different model
> members but the current SH RT-50 works as well as its predecessors.
>
> Jobst Brandt-
In a similar vein, I've owned three pairs of Specialized Sport MTB
shoes. As stiff as most road shoes, with three velcro straps, but with
lugs that completely surround most 2-bolt cleats and allow one to walk
quietly. I wouldn't use them for actual mountain biking (I generally
go with platform pedals for that) but they're great for any road
riding I do.
They're especially good for triathlons where you have to walk your
bike out of the transition area.
Not for hiking, like I think the OP wants, though. For that, I'd
recommend the Cannondale Roam, available at REI.
|
| |
Date: 13 Nov 2007 19:30:12
From:
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
Petey Mills writes:
> Many years ago, I purchased a pair of Shimano touring shoes:
> lace-ups with a single Velcro strap. I was extremely satisfied with
> these shoes--they were comfortable, durable, versatile and also
> quite handsome. Once I ran approximately 20 km in the Gatineau
> hills in them, with no consequent damage either to the shoes or to
> my feet. I replaced them with a similar pair with essentially the
> same design, although nominally a different manufacturer (Louis
> Garneaux of Canada), which I was equally happy with.
> I have now thrown out the latter pair as they were completely worn
> out, and replaced them with another pair of Shimano shoes. These
> also have a Velcro strap, but a slightly different last. The last
> is just as comfortable as the other two pairs, but the sole is
> terrible. For one, it is much thinner, so that even when new, the
> cleat sticks out while walking on smooth surfaces. They are also
> very slippery. Even after removing the cleats to get rid of the
> constant grating while walking, my feet still slip on wet surfaces.
> I think this is yet another example of manufacturers saving money by
> catering to a specific type of user. They figure that the majority
> are only going to walk a few dozen meters in them per ride, say from
> the bike to the coffee shop and back. But there are some users
> (namely tourists) who will want to get of the bike from time to time
> and walk considerable distances. I once walked over three miles in
> my old shoes along the Appalachian Trail at night, in the middle of
> a rainstorm while carrying my bicycle panniers. With the new ones,
> I don't think I could repeat that feat!
I've been well satisfied with the smooth rubber soled Shimano road
shoes with a fully recessed SPD cleat:
http://tinyurl.com/yxfwd3
I found them good for riding to work, walking about the office and
wearing them on good floors that are not affected by the recessed
cleat. They have been available over the years under different model
members but the current SH RT-50 works as well as its predecessors.
Jobst Brandt
|
| | |
Date: 13 Nov 2007 21:25:41
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
> ...
> I've been well satisfied with the smooth rubber soled Shimano road
> shoes with a fully recessed SPD cleat:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yxfwd3
>
> I found them good for riding to work, walking about the office and
> wearing them on good floors that are not affected by the recessed
> cleat. They have been available over the years under different model
> members but the current SH RT-50 works as well as its predecessors.
Only for the people they fit properly. :( Any similar shoe with a WIDE
toe-box?
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.
|
| | | |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 18:00:44
From: Matt O'Toole
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:25:41 -0600, Tom Sherman wrote:
> jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
>> ...
>> I've been well satisfied with the smooth rubber soled Shimano road
>> shoes with a fully recessed SPD cleat:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/yxfwd3
>>
>> I found them good for riding to work, walking about the office and
>> wearing them on good floors that are not affected by the recessed
>> cleat. They have been available over the years under different model
>> members but the current SH RT-50 works as well as its predecessors.
>
> Only for the people they fit properly. :( Any similar shoe with a WIDE
> toe-box?
Lake is known for wide shoes, and ones that work great for both riding and
walking.
Lake MTB shoes are favorites among trail maintenance folks, who often
have to ride many miles into their work areas, then be on their feet doing
hard physical labor all day.
Matt O.
|
| | | |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 04:25:59
From:
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@removethisyahoo.com > writes:
>> ...
>> I've been well satisfied with the smooth rubber soled Shimano road
>> shoes with a fully recessed SPD cleat:
http://tinyurl.com/yxfwd3
>> I found them good for riding to work, walking about the office and
>> wearing them on good floors that are not affected by the recessed
>> cleat. They have been available over the years under different model
>> members but the current SH RT-50 works as well as its predecessors.
> Only for the people they fit properly. :( Any similar shoe with a WIDE
> toe-box?
Now you are talking fit rather than the function of the shoe and how
it feels underfoot. If the foo shits wear it... or something like
that. I think it's fine to say a brand of shoe doesn't fit, but to
say Shimano makes a "crappy shoe" is inappropriate.
Jobst Brandt
|
| | | | |
Date: 13 Nov 2007 22:34:22
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
> Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@removethisyahoo.com> writes:
>
>>> ...
>>> I've been well satisfied with the smooth rubber soled Shimano road
>>> shoes with a fully recessed SPD cleat:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yxfwd3
>
>>> I found them good for riding to work, walking about the office and
>>> wearing them on good floors that are not affected by the recessed
>>> cleat. They have been available over the years under different model
>>> members but the current SH RT-50 works as well as its predecessors.
>
>> Only for the people they fit properly. :( Any similar shoe with a WIDE
>> toe-box?
>
> Now you are talking fit rather than the function of the shoe and how
> it feels underfoot. If the foo shits wear it... or something like
> that. I think it's fine to say a brand of shoe doesn't fit, but to
> say Shimano makes a "crappy shoe" is inappropriate.
butbutbut, I am NOT saying the Shimano is an inherently bad shoe, but
simply pointing out the unfortunate case that Shimano does not make
shoes for people with wide feet.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 14:34:34
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
In article <fhdtsc$qma$3@registered.motzarella.org >,
Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com > wrote:
> jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
> > Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@removethisyahoo.com> writes:
> >
> >>> ...
> >>> I've been well satisfied with the smooth rubber soled Shimano road
> >>> shoes with a fully recessed SPD cleat:
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/yxfwd3
> >
> >>> I found them good for riding to work, walking about the office and
> >>> wearing them on good floors that are not affected by the recessed
> >>> cleat. They have been available over the years under different model
> >>> members but the current SH RT-50 works as well as its predecessors.
> >
> >> Only for the people they fit properly. :( Any similar shoe with a WIDE
> >> toe-box?
> >
> > Now you are talking fit rather than the function of the shoe and how
> > it feels underfoot. If the foo shits wear it... or something like
> > that. I think it's fine to say a brand of shoe doesn't fit, but to
> > say Shimano makes a "crappy shoe" is inappropriate.
>
> butbutbut, I am NOT saying the Shimano is an inherently bad shoe, but
> simply pointing out the unfortunate case that Shimano does not make
> shoes for people with wide feet.
As it happens, your assertion is false, since
I have wide high feet well fitted in some
Shimano SH-M 038 SPD shoes, size 45.
--
Michael Press
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 21:26:07
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
Michael Press wrote:
> In article <fhdtsc$qma$3@registered.motzarella.org>,
> Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
>>> Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@removethisyahoo.com> writes:
>>>
>>>>> ...
>>>>> I've been well satisfied with the smooth rubber soled Shimano road
>>>>> shoes with a fully recessed SPD cleat:
>>> http://tinyurl.com/yxfwd3
>>>
>>>>> I found them good for riding to work, walking about the office and
>>>>> wearing them on good floors that are not affected by the recessed
>>>>> cleat. They have been available over the years under different model
>>>>> members but the current SH RT-50 works as well as its predecessors.
>>>> Only for the people they fit properly. :( Any similar shoe with a WIDE
>>>> toe-box?
>>> Now you are talking fit rather than the function of the shoe and how
>>> it feels underfoot. If the foo shits wear it... or something like
>>> that. I think it's fine to say a brand of shoe doesn't fit, but to
>>> say Shimano makes a "crappy shoe" is inappropriate.
>> butbutbut, I am NOT saying the Shimano is an inherently bad shoe, but
>> simply pointing out the unfortunate case that Shimano does not make
>> shoes for people with wide feet.
>
> As it happens, your assertion is false, since
> I have wide high feet well fitted in some
> Shimano SH-M 038 SPD shoes, size 45.
>
How wide of feet?
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 15 Nov 2007 17:50:41
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
In article <fhge8f$8j4$3@registered.motzarella.org >,
Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com > wrote:
> Michael Press wrote:
> > In article <fhdtsc$qma$3@registered.motzarella.org>,
> > Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
> >>> Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@removethisyahoo.com> writes:
> >>>
> >>>>> ...
> >>>>> I've been well satisfied with the smooth rubber soled Shimano road
> >>>>> shoes with a fully recessed SPD cleat:
> >>> http://tinyurl.com/yxfwd3
> >>>
> >>>>> I found them good for riding to work, walking about the office and
> >>>>> wearing them on good floors that are not affected by the recessed
> >>>>> cleat. They have been available over the years under different model
> >>>>> members but the current SH RT-50 works as well as its predecessors.
> >>>> Only for the people they fit properly. :( Any similar shoe with a WIDE
> >>>> toe-box?
> >>> Now you are talking fit rather than the function of the shoe and how
> >>> it feels underfoot. If the foo shits wear it... or something like
> >>> that. I think it's fine to say a brand of shoe doesn't fit, but to
> >>> say Shimano makes a "crappy shoe" is inappropriate.
> >> butbutbut, I am NOT saying the Shimano is an inherently bad shoe, but
> >> simply pointing out the unfortunate case that Shimano does not make
> >> shoes for people with wide feet.
> >
> > As it happens, your assertion is false, since
> > I have wide high feet well fitted in some
> > Shimano SH-M 038 SPD shoes, size 45.
> >
> How wide of feet?
EE.
--
Michael Press
|
| | | | | |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 04:43:08
From:
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
Tom Sherman writes:
>>>> ...
>>>> I've been well satisfied with the smooth rubber soled Shimano
>>>> road shoes with a fully recessed SPD cleat:
>> http://tinyurl.com/yxfwd3
>>>> I found them good for riding to work, walking about the office
>>>> and wearing them on good floors that are not affected by the
>>>> recessed cleat. They have been available over the years under
>>>> different model members but the current SH RT-50 works as well as
>>>> its predecessors.
>>> Only for the people they fit properly. :( Any similar shoe with a
>>> WIDE toe-box?
>> Now you are talking fit rather than the function of the shoe and
>> how it feels underfoot. If the foo shits wear it... or something
>> like that. I think it's fine to say a brand of shoe doesn't fit,
>> but to say Shimano makes a "crappy shoe" is inappropriate.
> butbutbut,
To that Mr. Dithers said "Bumstead, turn off your engine!"
> I am NOT saying the Shimano is an inherently bad shoe, but simply
> pointing out the unfortunate case that Shimano does not make shoes
> for people with wide feet.
Well the subject heading from Petey Mills is the one that's out of
place. However to agree with or underscore his assessment doesn't rub
well with me.
http://www.kingfeatures.com/pressrm/rel_6_25_8_2000.htm
Amazing!
Jobst Brandt
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 13 Nov 2007 23:05:02
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Good Shimano shoes
|
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
> Tom Sherman writes:
>
>>>>> ...
>>>>> I've been well satisfied with the smooth rubber soled Shimano
>>>>> road shoes with a fully recessed SPD cleat:
>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/yxfwd3
>
>>>>> I found them good for riding to work, walking about the office
>>>>> and wearing them on good floors that are not affected by the
>>>>> recessed cleat. They have been available over the years under
>>>>> different model members but the current SH RT-50 works as well as
>>>>> its predecessors.
>
>>>> Only for the people they fit properly. :( Any similar shoe with a
>>>> WIDE toe-box?
>
>>> Now you are talking fit rather than the function of the shoe and
>>> how it feels underfoot. If the foo shits wear it... or something
>>> like that. I think it's fine to say a brand of shoe doesn't fit,
>>> but to say Shimano makes a "crappy shoe" is inappropriate.
>
>> butbutbut,
>
> To that Mr. Dithers said "Bumstead, turn off your engine!"
>
>> I am NOT saying the Shimano is an inherently bad shoe, but simply
>> pointing out the unfortunate case that Shimano does not make shoes
>> for people with wide feet.
>
> Well the subject heading from Petey Mills is the one that's out of
> place. However to agree with or underscore his assessment doesn't rub
> well with me.
OK, I changed the subject line. I will buy a pair of the Shimano touring
shoes Jobst recommends as soon as Shimano makes a wide version that fits
my feet.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 05:18:57
From:
Subject: Re: Good Shimano shoes
|
Tom Sherman writes:
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> I've been well satisfied with the smooth rubber soled Shimano
>>>>>> road shoes with a fully recessed SPD cleat:
http://tinyurl.com/yxfwd3
>>>>>> I found them good for riding to work, walking about the office
>>>>>> and wearing them on good floors that are not affected by the
>>>>>> recessed cleat. They have been available over the years under
>>>>>> different model members but the current SH RT-50 works as well
>>>>>> as its predecessors.
>>>>> Only for the people they fit properly. :( Any similar shoe with a
>>>>> WIDE toe-box?
>>>> Now you are talking fit rather than the function of the shoe and
>>>> how it feels underfoot. If the foo shits wear it... or something
>>>> like that. I think it's fine to say a brand of shoe doesn't fit,
>>>> but to say Shimano makes a "crappy shoe" is inappropriate.
>>> butbutbut,
>> To that Mr. Dithers said "Bumstead, turn off your engine!"
>>> I am NOT saying the Shimano is an inherently bad shoe, but simply
>>> pointing out the unfortunate case that Shimano does not make shoes
>>> for people with wide feet.
>> Well the subject heading from Petey Mills is the one that's out of
>> place. However to agree with or underscore his assessment doesn't
>> rub well with me.
> OK, I changed the subject line. I will buy a pair of the Shimano
> touring shoes Jobst recommends as soon as Shimano makes a wide
> version that fits my feet.
In that event, I wouldn't wait. I'm fortunate that average shoes fit
my feet.
Jobst Brandt
|
| | | |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 04:20:08
From:
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@removethisyahoo.com > writes:
>> ...
>> I've been well satisfied with the smooth rubber soled Shimano road
>> shoes with a fully recessed SPD cleat:
http://tinyurl.com/yxfwd3
>> I found them good for riding to work, walking about the office and
>> wearing them on good floors that are not affected by the recessed
>> cleat. They have been available over the years under different model
>> members but the current SH RT-50 works as well as its predecessors.
> Only for the people they fit properly. :( Any similar shoe with a WIDE
> toe-box?
Now you are talking fit rather than the function of the shoe and how
it feels underfoot. If the foo shits wear it... or something like
that. I think it's fine to say a brand of shoe doesn't fit, but to
say its a bad shoe is inappropriate.
Jobst Brandt
|
| | | | |
Date: 13 Nov 2007 22:31:41
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
> Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@removethisyahoo.com> writes:
>
>>> ...
>>> I've been well satisfied with the smooth rubber soled Shimano road
>>> shoes with a fully recessed SPD cleat:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yxfwd3
>
>>> I found them good for riding to work, walking about the office and
>>> wearing them on good floors that are not affected by the recessed
>>> cleat. They have been available over the years under different model
>>> members but the current SH RT-50 works as well as its predecessors.
>
>> Only for the people they fit properly. :( Any similar shoe with a WIDE
>> toe-box?
>
> Now you are talking fit rather than the function of the shoe and how
> it feels underfoot. If the foo shits wear it... or something like
> that. I think it's fine to say a brand of shoe doesn't fit, but to
> say its a bad shoe is inappropriate.
No, my post by implication says the Shimano shoe in question is a GOOD
shoe for those it fits. Any shoe that does not fit is a bad shoe for
that particular person.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.
|
| |
Date: 13 Nov 2007 05:02:47
From:
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
On Nov 12, 7:55 am, peteymi...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Many years ago, I purchased a pair of Shimano touring shoes: lace-ups
> with a single velcro strap. I was extremely satisfied with these
> shoes--they were comfortable, durable, versatile and also quite
> handsome. Once I ran approximately 20 km in the Gatineau hills in
> them, with no consequent damage either to the shoes or to my feet. I
> replaced them with a similar pair with essentially the same design,
> although nominally a different manufacturer (Louis Garneaux of
> Canada), which I was equally happy with.
>
> I have now thrown out the latter pair as they were completely worn
> out, and replaced them with another pair of Shimano shoes. These also
> have a velcro strap, but a slightly different last. The last is just
> as comfortable as the other two pairs, but the sole is terrible. For
> one, it is much thinner, so that even when new, the cleat sticks out
> while walking on smooth surfaces. They are also very slippery. Even
> after removing the cleats to get rid of the constant grating while
> walking, my feet still slip on wet surfaces.
>
> I think this is yet another example of manufacturers saving money by
> catering to a specific type of user. They figure that the majority
> are only going to walk a few dozen meters in them per ride, say from
> the bike to the coffee shop and back. But there are some users
> (namely tourists) who will want to get of the bike from time to time
> and walk considerable distances. I once walked over three miles in my
> old shoes along the Appalachian Trail at night, in the middle of a
> rainstorm while carrying my bicycle panniers. With the new ones, I
> don't think I could repeat that feat!
>
> What does everyone else think?
hey do not forget tpo sell your old shoes on ebay. i just sold a
couple of old nike shoes and i even got $10 for each. that can give
you the down payment for some nice sidi shoes (-:
carlos
www.bikingthings.com
Get Faster, Enjoy Cycling, Get Fit, Live Better.
|
| |
Date: 12 Nov 2007 21:47:37
From: Pikachu
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
In article <1194872112.436115.34650@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com >,
peteymills@hotmail.com wrote:
> Many years ago, I purchased a pair of Shimano touring shoes: lace-ups
> with a single velcro strap. I was extremely satisfied with these
> shoes--they were comfortable, durable, versatile and also quite
> handsome. Once I ran approximately 20 km in the Gatineau hills in
> them, with no consequent damage either to the shoes or to my feet. I
> replaced them with a similar pair with essentially the same design,
> although nominally a different manufacturer (Louis Garneaux of
> Canada), which I was equally happy with.
>
> I have now thrown out the latter pair as they were completely worn
> out, and replaced them with another pair of Shimano shoes. These also
> have a velcro strap, but a slightly different last. The last is just
> as comfortable as the other two pairs, but the sole is terrible. For
> one, it is much thinner, so that even when new, the cleat sticks out
> while walking on smooth surfaces. They are also very slippery. Even
> after removing the cleats to get rid of the constant grating while
> walking, my feet still slip on wet surfaces.
>
> I think this is yet another example of manufacturers saving money by
> catering to a specific type of user. They figure that the majority
> are only going to walk a few dozen meters in them per ride, say from
> the bike to the coffee shop and back. But there are some users
> (namely tourists) who will want to get of the bike from time to time
> and walk considerable distances. I once walked over three miles in my
> old shoes along the Appalachian Trail at night, in the middle of a
> rainstorm while carrying my bicycle panniers. With the new ones, I
> don't think I could repeat that feat!
>
> What does everyone else think?
If you're going to do any significant amount of walking, just get normal
pedals (clips & straps) and wear normal shoes. I commute by bike (<10
miles round trip) and am too lazy to bring a change of shoes for the
office. However, I have not found wearing normal, comfortable
office-type shoes to be of any significant detriment to the commute I do.
I do have and use clipless pedals on my road and mountain bikes, for
those more "serious" rides.
Pikachu
|
| | |
Date: 13 Nov 2007 21:23:58
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
Pikachu wrote:
> ...
> If you're going to do any significant amount of walking, just get normal
> pedals (clips & straps) and wear normal shoes. I commute by bike (<10
> miles round trip) and am too lazy to bring a change of shoes for the
> office. However, I have not found wearing normal, comfortable
> office-type shoes to be of any significant detriment to the commute I do...
I have found Power Grips [1] far superior to clips and straps for casual
use, and more serious use unless cleated shoes are worn. Clips and
straps do not hold normal shoes securely, unless one is trying to
"bail", when their grip turns tenacious.
[1] <http://powergrips.mrpbike.com/pg_benefits.shtml >.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.
|
| |
Date: 12 Nov 2007 17:10:48
From:
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
peteymi...@hotmail.com skrev:
> I have now thrown out the latter pair as they were completely worn
> out, and replaced them with another pair of Shimano shoes. These also
> have a velcro strap, but a slightly different last. The last is just
> as comfortable as the other two pairs, but the sole is terrible. For
> one, it is much thinner, so that even when new, the cleat sticks out
> while walking on smooth surfaces. They are also very slippery. Even
> after removing the cleats to get rid of the constant grating while
> walking, my feet still slip on wet surfaces.
To me it sounds like you have bought some roadbike specific shoes
instead of MTB/Touring shoes like you had before. I think all modern
roadbike shoes have cleats sticking out and are slippery in the wet
and make people walk like a duck.
I own several Shimano MTB shoes and they are all OK to walk in since
the sole isn't too stiff, and the sole has a gripping rubber thread.
For my utility MTB shoes are great even though a commute on a road
bike since I need to walk quite a distance in them after my commute is
done, or if I choose to do some shopping. Perhaps you should look at
some "touring" specific shoes next time, since they sound like what
you want. While there is no hard definition of "touring" shoes, I
generally associate them with shoes that look more or less look like a
non-cycling shoe perhaps with laces, and has a relatively soft sole
that looks more like a normal shoe sole than a tractor tire (MTB) or a
slick pair of stiff dance shoes (roadbike).
--
Regards
|
| | |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 17:27:45
From: Andrew Price
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:10:48 -0800, phs123@gmail.com wrote:
>To me it sounds like you have bought some roadbike specific shoes
>instead of MTB/Touring shoes like you had before.
That's what it sounds like to me, too.
>I think all modern
>roadbike shoes have cleats sticking out and are slippery in the wet
>and make people walk like a duck.
Agree with that, too. Where I do share the OP's feeling that Shimano
has taken a step backwards is with their current SPD sandals - nowhere
near as good as the older two-strap SD-60 model.
|
| |
Date: 12 Nov 2007 10:40:39
From:
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
On Nov 12, 6:51 pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me > wrote:
> peteymi...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Many years ago, I purchased a pair of Shimano touring shoes: lace-ups
> > with a single velcro strap. I was extremely satisfied with these
> > shoes--they were comfortable, durable, versatile and also quite
> > handsome. Once I ran approximately 20 km in the Gatineau hills in
> > them, with no consequent damage either to the shoes or to my feet. I
> > replaced them with a similar pair with essentially the same design,
> > although nominally a different manufacturer (Louis Garneaux of
> > Canada), which I was equally happy with.
>
> > I have now thrown out the latter pair as they were completely worn
> > out, and replaced them with another pair of Shimano shoes. These also
> > have a velcro strap, but a slightly different last. The last is just
> > as comfortable as the other two pairs, but the sole is terrible. For
> > one, it is much thinner, so that even when new, the cleat sticks out
> > while walking on smooth surfaces. They are also very slippery. Even
> > after removing the cleats to get rid of the constant grating while
> > walking, my feet still slip on wet surfaces.
>
> > I think this is yet another example of manufacturers saving money by
> > catering to a specific type of user. They figure that the majority
> > are only going to walk a few dozen meters in them per ride, say from
> > the bike to the coffee shop and back. But there are some users
> > (namely tourists) who will want to get of the bike from time to time
> > and walk considerable distances. I once walked over three miles in my
> > old shoes along the Appalachian Trail at night, in the middle of a
> > rainstorm while carrying my bicycle panniers. With the new ones, I
> > don't think I could repeat that feat!
>
> > What does everyone else think?
>
> I think you should look at the shoes before buying them next time.
>
> HTH!
It's difficult to judge how far the cleats will stick out before they
are mounted and impossible to judge how much grip they will have on
wet stone.
|
| |
Date: 12 Nov 2007 10:38:09
From:
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
On Nov 12, 7:16 pm, "russellseat...@yahoo.com"
<russellseat...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> > I think this is yet another example of manufacturers saving money by
> > catering to a specific type of user. They figure that the majority
> > are only going to walk a few dozen meters in them per ride, say from
> > the bike to the coffee shop and back.
>
> So you're complaining that the huge, mass market, ubiquitous company
> of Shimano caters to the majority of cyclists needs? If you have
> narrowly defined needs for gear, you will likely have to search out
> smaller companies who cater to niches where they can be profitable and
> not compete against the huge mass marketer. This is how the market
> based world usually works for most products. Bikes, clothes, cars,
> etc. etc.
But the old shoes worked just fine, although I would have preferred a
thicker sole on them as well. Since they were obviously over built,
Shimano must have decided to cut a few corners.
Just another case of new products with too little soul.
|
| | |
Date: 12 Nov 2007 11:11:58
From: Kerry Montgomery
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
<peteymills@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1194892689.381168.305830@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 12, 7:16 pm, "russellseat...@yahoo.com"
> <russellseat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > I think this is yet another example of manufacturers saving money by
>> > catering to a specific type of user. They figure that the majority
>> > are only going to walk a few dozen meters in them per ride, say from
>> > the bike to the coffee shop and back.
>>
>> So you're complaining that the huge, mass market, ubiquitous company
>> of Shimano caters to the majority of cyclists needs? If you have
>> narrowly defined needs for gear, you will likely have to search out
>> smaller companies who cater to niches where they can be profitable and
>> not compete against the huge mass marketer. This is how the market
>> based world usually works for most products. Bikes, clothes, cars,
>> etc. etc.
>
>
> But the old shoes worked just fine, although I would have preferred a
> thicker sole on them as well. Since they were obviously over built,
> Shimano must have decided to cut a few corners.
>
> Just another case of new products with too little soul.
>
And too little sole.
|
| |
Date: 12 Nov 2007 10:16:04
From: russellseaton1@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
> I think this is yet another example of manufacturers saving money by
> catering to a specific type of user. They figure that the majority
> are only going to walk a few dozen meters in them per ride, say from
> the bike to the coffee shop and back.
So you're complaining that the huge, mass market, ubiquitous company
of Shimano caters to the majority of cyclists needs? If you have
narrowly defined needs for gear, you will likely have to search out
smaller companies who cater to niches where they can be profitable and
not compete against the huge mass marketer. This is how the market
based world usually works for most products. Bikes, clothes, cars,
etc. etc.
|
| | |
Date: 12 Nov 2007 13:20:15
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
>> I think this is yet another example of manufacturers saving money by
>> catering to a specific type of user. They figure that the majority
>> are only going to walk a few dozen meters in them per ride, say from
>> the bike to the coffee shop and back.
russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> So you're complaining that the huge, mass market, ubiquitous company
> of Shimano caters to the majority of cyclists needs? If you have
> narrowly defined needs for gear, you will likely have to search out
> smaller companies who cater to niches where they can be profitable and
> not compete against the huge mass marketer. This is how the market
> based world usually works for most products. Bikes, clothes, cars,
> etc. etc.
but that system exploits Tom Sherman! The Man be keepin' him down!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | |
Date: 13 Nov 2007 21:18:41
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
Andrew Muzi wrote:
>>> I think this is yet another example of manufacturers saving money by
>>> catering to a specific type of user. They figure that the majority
>>> are only going to walk a few dozen meters in them per ride, say from
>>> the bike to the coffee shop and back.
>
> russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> So you're complaining that the huge, mass market, ubiquitous company
>> of Shimano caters to the majority of cyclists needs? If you have
>> narrowly defined needs for gear, you will likely have to search out
>> smaller companies who cater to niches where they can be profitable and
>> not compete against the huge mass marketer. This is how the market
>> based world usually works for most products. Bikes, clothes, cars,
>> etc. etc.
>
> but that system exploits Tom Sherman! The Man be keepin' him down!
Does not that same system produce sub-middle class incomes for most LBS
owners?
Well the only shoes that work for me that I have found so far are SiDi
"Mega" sizes - I think they used a mold of my feet for the last! Shimano
shoes are too tight, squash my toes together and cause my feet to go numb.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.
|
| | | | |
Date: 15 Nov 2007 17:44:38
From: Doug Taylor
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:18:41 -0600, Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com > wrote:
>Well the only shoes that work for me that I have found so far are SiDi
>"Mega" sizes - I think they used a mold of my feet for the last! Shimano
>shoes are too tight, squash my toes together and cause my feet to go numb.
My street shoe is size 8.5 D width. My road shoe for the last few
seasons was a Shimano size 42, which absolutely killed me on long
rides to the point of having to dismount and taking my shoes off to
get the circulation going and alleviate the hot spots. I even started
riding without socks; a little but not a lot of help.
Then I found out - D'oh! - Shimano sells half metric sizes throughout
the line:
http://bike.shimano.com/catalog/cycle/products/category.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302035957&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441763201&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181202&bmUID=1195165868856
I don't know anybody else who has such a variety. Usually,if you have
size 8.5 feet, you get either a 42 (too tight) or a 43 (too loose). So
I bought a R-151, size 42.5, and it's like Goldilocks - just right.
Also, note if you want to spend big bucks on a R-215, you can get E
width:
http://bike.shimano.com/catalog/cycle/products/shoe.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441763201&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302033074&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181202&bmUID=1195166431482
|
| | | | | |
Date: 16 Nov 2007 01:56:56
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
Doug Taylor wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:18:41 -0600, Tom Sherman
> <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Well the only shoes that work for me that I have found so far are SiDi
>> "Mega" sizes - I think they used a mold of my feet for the last! Shimano
>> shoes are too tight, squash my toes together and cause my feet to go numb.
>
> My street shoe is size 8.5 D width. My road shoe for the last few
> seasons was a Shimano size 42, which absolutely killed me on long
> rides to the point of having to dismount and taking my shoes off to
> get the circulation going and alleviate the hot spots. I even started
> riding without socks; a little but not a lot of help.
>
> Then I found out - D'oh! - Shimano sells half metric sizes throughout
> the line:
>
> http://bike.shimano.com/catalog/cycle/products/category.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302035957&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441763201&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181202&bmUID=1195165868856
>
> I don't know anybody else who has such a variety. Usually,if you have
> size 8.5 feet, you get either a 42 (too tight) or a 43 (too loose). So
> I bought a R-151, size 42.5, and it's like Goldilocks - just right.
Shimano's website design is so annoying, I usually just give up on it.
> Also, note if you want to spend big bucks on a R-215, you can get E
> width:
> http://bike.shimano.com/catalog/cycle/products/shoe.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441763201&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302033074&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181202&bmUID=1195166431482
butbutbut, those are "walk like a duck" shoes.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 15 Nov 2007 21:16:29
From: Barry
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
> I don't know anybody else who has such a variety. Usually,if you have
> size 8.5 feet, you get either a 42 (too tight) or a 43 (too loose). So
> I bought a R-151, size 42.5, and it's like Goldilocks - just right.
Sidi has not only half sizes, but also three different widths for the Genius 5
(road) and Dominator 5 (mountain) models.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 18 Nov 2007 21:20:37
From: Doug Taylor
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:16:29 -0500, "Barry" <a@b.c > wrote:
>> I don't know anybody else who has such a variety. Usually,if you have
>> size 8.5 feet, you get either a 42 (too tight) or a 43 (too loose). So
>> I bought a R-151, size 42.5, and it's like Goldilocks - just right.
>
>Sidi has not only half sizes, but also three different widths for the Genius 5
>(road) and Dominator 5 (mountain) models.
Found it the site:
http://www.sidiusa.com/sizing.html
Wow.
Half metric sizes - not to mention width variety - are a godsend when
you are dealing road cycling shoes.
I can live with tight mountain bike shoes, but when you are doing long
road rides, and the hotspots kick in at mile 60 or so and begin to
drive you up the wall, you'll wish like hell you had the proper fit.
|
| | | | |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 10:30:20
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
>>>> I think this is yet another example of manufacturers saving money by
>>>> catering to a specific type of user. They figure that the majority
>>>> are only going to walk a few dozen meters in them per ride, say from
>>>> the bike to the coffee shop and back.
>> russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> So you're complaining that the huge, mass market, ubiquitous company
>>> of Shimano caters to the majority of cyclists needs? If you have
>>> narrowly defined needs for gear, you will likely have to search out
>>> smaller companies who cater to niches where they can be profitable and
>>> not compete against the huge mass marketer. This is how the market
>>> based world usually works for most products. Bikes, clothes, cars,
>>> etc. etc.
> Andrew Muzi wrote:
>> but that system exploits Tom Sherman! The Man be keepin' him down!
Tom Sherman wrote:
> Does not that same system produce sub-middle class incomes for most LBS
> owners?
> Well the only shoes that work for me that I have found so far are SiDi
> "Mega" sizes - I think they used a mold of my feet for the last! Shimano
> shoes are too tight, squash my toes together and cause my feet to go numb.
On that I heartily agree - SiDi rocks! Is there a Dino Signorelli fan club?
On income, yes, LBS owners hopefully earn an income (else why bother?).
At least most years, on average. Sometimes. Others choose a salaried job.
Those who are more avaricious take a night school MBA and move on, work
a second job, a home business or two, marry up or whatever. If income
counts for more than other things, an individual may maximize it.
Choices, Tom, choices.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | | | |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 21:24:03
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
Andrew Muzi wrote:
>>>>> I think this is yet another example of manufacturers saving money by
>>>>> catering to a specific type of user. They figure that the majority
>>>>> are only going to walk a few dozen meters in them per ride, say from
>>>>> the bike to the coffee shop and back.
>
>>> russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> So you're complaining that the huge, mass market, ubiquitous company
>>>> of Shimano caters to the majority of cyclists needs? If you have
>>>> narrowly defined needs for gear, you will likely have to search out
>>>> smaller companies who cater to niches where they can be profitable and
>>>> not compete against the huge mass marketer. This is how the market
>>>> based world usually works for most products. Bikes, clothes, cars,
>>>> etc. etc.
>
>> Andrew Muzi wrote:
>>> but that system exploits Tom Sherman! The Man be keepin' him down!
>
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Does not that same system produce sub-middle class incomes for most
>> LBS owners?
>> Well the only shoes that work for me that I have found so far are SiDi
>> "Mega" sizes - I think they used a mold of my feet for the last!
>> Shimano shoes are too tight, squash my toes together and cause my feet
>> to go numb.
>
> On that I heartily agree - SiDi rocks! Is there a Dino Signorelli fan club?
>
> On income, yes, LBS owners hopefully earn an income (else why bother?).
> At least most years, on average. Sometimes. Others choose a salaried job.
>
> Those who are more avaricious take a night school MBA and move on, work
> a second job, a home business or two, marry up or whatever. If income
> counts for more than other things, an individual may maximize it.
> Choices, Tom, choices.
Being a manager sucks. Unfortunately, it is hard to find
non-managerial/non-marketing technical jobs anymore.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 18:57:16
From: Matt O'Toole
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 10:30:20 -0600, A Muzi wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Well the only shoes that work for me that I have found so far are SiDi
>> "Mega" sizes - I think they used a mold of my feet for the last! Shimano
>> shoes are too tight, squash my toes together and cause my feet to go numb.
> On that I heartily agree - SiDi rocks! Is there a Dino Signorelli fan club?
Another vote for Sidi!
Matt O.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 20:34:04
From: Andrew Price
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 10:30:20 -0600, A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org >
wrote:
>> Well the only shoes that work for me that I have found so far are SiDi
>> "Mega" sizes - I think they used a mold of my feet for the last! Shimano
>> shoes are too tight, squash my toes together and cause my feet to go numb.
>
>On that I heartily agree - SiDi rocks! Is there a Dino Signorelli fan club?
Another vote for SiDi shoes here.
|
| | | |
Date: 12 Nov 2007 11:40:38
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote in message
news:13jh9p376i03p27@corp.supernews.com...
>>> I think this is yet another example of manufacturers saving money by
>>> catering to a specific type of user. They figure that the majority
>>> are only going to walk a few dozen meters in them per ride, say from
>>> the bike to the coffee shop and back.
>
> russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> So you're complaining that the huge, mass market, ubiquitous company
>> of Shimano caters to the majority of cyclists needs? If you have
>> narrowly defined needs for gear, you will likely have to search out
>> smaller companies who cater to niches where they can be profitable and
>> not compete against the huge mass marketer. This is how the market
>> based world usually works for most products. Bikes, clothes, cars,
>> etc. etc.
>
> but that system exploits Tom Sherman! The Man be keepin' him down!
Heh.
Bill "ode to the banished" S.
|
| |
Date: 12 Nov 2007 09:51:08
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
peteymills@hotmail.com wrote:
> Many years ago, I purchased a pair of Shimano touring shoes: lace-ups
> with a single velcro strap. I was extremely satisfied with these
> shoes--they were comfortable, durable, versatile and also quite
> handsome. Once I ran approximately 20 km in the Gatineau hills in
> them, with no consequent damage either to the shoes or to my feet. I
> replaced them with a similar pair with essentially the same design,
> although nominally a different manufacturer (Louis Garneaux of
> Canada), which I was equally happy with.
>
> I have now thrown out the latter pair as they were completely worn
> out, and replaced them with another pair of Shimano shoes. These also
> have a velcro strap, but a slightly different last. The last is just
> as comfortable as the other two pairs, but the sole is terrible. For
> one, it is much thinner, so that even when new, the cleat sticks out
> while walking on smooth surfaces. They are also very slippery. Even
> after removing the cleats to get rid of the constant grating while
> walking, my feet still slip on wet surfaces.
>
> I think this is yet another example of manufacturers saving money by
> catering to a specific type of user. They figure that the majority
> are only going to walk a few dozen meters in them per ride, say from
> the bike to the coffee shop and back. But there are some users
> (namely tourists) who will want to get of the bike from time to time
> and walk considerable distances. I once walked over three miles in my
> old shoes along the Appalachian Trail at night, in the middle of a
> rainstorm while carrying my bicycle panniers. With the new ones, I
> don't think I could repeat that feat!
>
> What does everyone else think?
I think you should look at the shoes before buying them next time.
HTH!
|
| |
Date: 12 Nov 2007 09:01:35
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
On Nov 12, 4:55 am, peteymi...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Many years ago, I purchased a pair of Shimano touring shoes: lace-ups
> with a single velcro strap. I was extremely satisfied with these
> shoes--they were comfortable, durable, versatile and also quite
> handsome. Once I ran approximately 20 km in the Gatineau hills in
> them, with no consequent damage either to the shoes or to my feet. I
> replaced them with a similar pair with essentially the same design,
> although nominally a different manufacturer (Louis Garneaux of
> Canada), which I was equally happy with.
>
> I have now thrown out the latter pair as they were completely worn
> out, and replaced them with another pair of Shimano shoes. These also
> have a velcro strap, but a slightly different last. The last is just
> as comfortable as the other two pairs, but the sole is terrible. For
> one, it is much thinner, so that even when new, the cleat sticks out
> while walking on smooth surfaces. They are also very slippery. Even
> after removing the cleats to get rid of the constant grating while
> walking, my feet still slip on wet surfaces.
>
> I think this is yet another example of manufacturers saving money by
> catering to a specific type of user. They figure that the majority
> are only going to walk a few dozen meters in them per ride, say from
> the bike to the coffee shop and back. But there are some users
> (namely tourists) who will want to get of the bike from time to time
> and walk considerable distances. I once walked over three miles in my
> old shoes along the Appalachian Trail at night, in the middle of a
> rainstorm while carrying my bicycle panniers. With the new ones, I
> don't think I could repeat that feat!
>
> What does everyone else think?
I think Shimano shoes don't fit people with narrow feet. I wear a 12B,
and their 46es bump my toes, while the 47s won't let me cinch the
straps down tight enough before running out of velcro.
Nothing to do with your issue, but since we're venting...
|
| | |
Date: 13 Nov 2007 21:14:31
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
Hank Wirtz wrote:
> On Nov 12, 4:55 am, peteymi...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> ...
>> What does everyone else think?
>
> I think Shimano shoes don't fit people with narrow feet. I wear a 12B,
> and their 46es bump my toes, while the 47s won't let me cinch the
> straps down tight enough before running out of velcro.
>
> Nothing to do with your issue, but since we're venting...
>
Shimano shoes do NOT fit people with "northern European" (wide toes,
narrow heel) feet. SiDi Mega shoes on the other hand are a perfect fit
for my feet.
The other problems with most shoes are the obnoxious colors which are a
distraction when pedaling. Plain black, please.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.
|
| | |
Date: 12 Nov 2007 17:49:23
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
"Hank Wirtz" <hank@wirtznet.net > wrote in message
news:1194886895.760897.283430@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> I think Shimano shoes don't fit people with narrow feet. I wear a 12B,
> and their 46es bump my toes, while the 47s won't let me cinch the
> straps down tight enough before running out of velcro.
>
> Nothing to do with your issue, but since we're venting...
Interesting - I always thought shimano were traditionally narrow. They fit
me, and I don't think I've got wide feet. Wife has wide feet, and they sort
of fit her, but there's a lot of room at the toe end (clown shoes).
cheers,
clive
|
| |
Date: 12 Nov 2007 08:43:10
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Crappy Shimano shoes
|
Dans le message de news:1194872112.436115.34650@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com,
peteymills@hotmail.com <peteymills@hotmail.com > a réfléchi, et puis a
déclaré :
> Many years ago, I purchased a pair of Shimano touring shoes: lace-ups
> with a single velcro strap. I was extremely satisfied with these
> shoes--they were comfortable, durable, versatile and also quite
> handsome. Once I ran approximately 20 km in the Gatineau hills in
> them, with no consequent damage either to the shoes or to my feet. I
> replaced them with a similar pair with essentially the same design,
> although nominally a different manufacturer (Louis Garneaux of
> Canada), which I was equally happy with.
>
> I have now thrown out the latter pair as they were completely worn
> out, and replaced them with another pair of Shimano shoes. These also
> have a velcro strap, but a slightly different last. The last is just
> as comfortable as the other two pairs, but the sole is terrible. For
> one, it is much thinner, so that even when new, the cleat sticks out
> while walking on smooth surfaces. They are also very slippery. Even
> after removing the cleats to get rid of the constant grating while
> walking, my feet still slip on wet surfaces.
>
> I think this is yet another example of manufacturers saving money by
> catering to a specific type of user. They figure that the majority
> are only going to walk a few dozen meters in them per ride, say from
> the bike to the coffee shop and back. But there are some users
> (namely tourists) who will want to get of the bike from time to time
> and walk considerable distances. I once walked over three miles in my
> old shoes along the Appalachian Trail at night, in the middle of a
> rainstorm while carrying my bicycle panniers. With the new ones, I
> don't think I could repeat that feat!
>
> What does everyone else think?
Good work. You vented - you're done. I think you should buy good shoes and
be done with it.
|
|
