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Main
Date: 31 Jul 2007 19:12:17
From: opalko@gmail.com
Subject: Electric shifters
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After seeing the tech report on the electric shifters from Campy used
in this year's Tour, wondering if Sheldon (or others) had any info or
opinions on them...
Cheers!
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 21:41:50
From: JG
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
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While considering Raam's sucker's bet ( - if existence will be used to
prove the likelyhood, Raam has already won, as Mavic sold e-shifters a
decade ago - ), I read some descriptions of the Mektronic derailleur.
According to the reviewer, it shifted flawlessly under load. This
puzzled me, as derailling the chain under heavy load is not the
problem, but rather the abrupt and forceful disengagement of one cog
and engagement of the next when the chain reaches the top of the
cluster. But thinking about it some more, I supose if one metered the
cassette, one could shift onto the "glide ramp" every time resulting
is a very clean transition. I'm not persuaded Mavic was actually
doing this, but I have to concede there is a possibility for
improvement over manual shifting.
JG
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Date: 03 Aug 2007 02:37:13
From: Ben C
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On 2007-08-03, JG <jchg@cox.net > wrote:
> While considering Raam's sucker's bet ( - if existence will be used to
> prove the likelyhood, Raam has already won, as Mavic sold e-shifters a
> decade ago - ), I read some descriptions of the Mektronic derailleur.
>
> According to the reviewer, it shifted flawlessly under load. This
> puzzled me, as derailling the chain under heavy load is not the
> problem, but rather the abrupt and forceful disengagement of one cog
> and engagement of the next when the chain reaches the top of the
> cluster. But thinking about it some more, I supose if one metered the
> cassette, one could shift onto the "glide ramp" every time resulting
> is a very clean transition. I'm not persuaded Mavic was actually
> doing this, but I have to concede there is a possibility for
> improvement over manual shifting.
I'm sure there is room for improvement, especially for fast shifts and
for automatic trimming.
Many less technically minded cyclists don't get on too well with
derailleurs. They often end up clanking away between two gears not
knowing what, if anything, is wrong, nor how to rectify the problem.
Indexed shifting has made riding easier for many people I think even
though personally I quite liked the old friction levers.
Hub gears are a good solution, but until recently there wasn't a wide
enough range of gears on them, and I suspect they're also rather
expensive.
There are other possibilities with an electronic system like "automatic"
gears.
I don't like the idea of a battery though, some kind of super-capacitor
that could charge itself up somehow from the motion of the bike would be
preferable.
They could also be quite a bit lighter because there's a lot more gubbins
in an STI shifter than in a push button. And, as someone else mentioned,
more ergonomic. Possibly cheaper too.
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| | | |
Date: 03 Aug 2007 20:02:35
From: dabac
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
Ben C Wrote:
>
> There are other possibilities with an electronic system lik
> "automatic"
> gears.
If they came with a full FD+RD integration I'd be quite curious abou
what it would feel like to work oneself through the full range i
perfect sequence with only having to care about whether to push th
button in the "up" or "down" direction.
Ben C Wrote:
>
> I don't like the idea of a battery though,
Me neither.
Ben C Wrote:
>
> ... some kind of super-capacitor
> that could charge itself up somehow from the motion of the bike woul
> be
> preferable.There are things called piezo cristals which reacts to pressure b
generating a current. How about a seat post filled with those? Ever
bump in the road could be used to recharge th
capacitor/battery/whatever without any increase in drive train losses.
Ben C Wrote:
> ... Possibly cheaper too.Well, that would depend if we're looking at "all the market can bear" o
actual production costs rounded upwards. If the latter there is a chanc
that they would be cheaper. If the former...
In terms of reliability there's a fairly obvious tradeoff betwee
sealed units and units that would allow physical manipulation. If on
was to give up the "perfect" seal one could quite easy imagine a desig
with an external knob that could be rotated by hand to dial in
specific gear if the electronics fails.
Unless I carry a spare RD + hanger I always face the possibility o
having to return home on a SS, so I don't see why the thought of doin
this due to an electrical fault would upset me more. (unless the
become too frequent of course
--
dabac
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 21:34:50
From:
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Aug 2, 7:36 pm, raam...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Aug 2, 7:12 pm, Peter Van Buren <ibmis...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 2, 12:35 pm, "Clive George" <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > "Marcus Coles" <marco...@ody.ca> wrote in message
>
> > >news:Xwnsi.20407$13.16216@nnrp.ca.mci.com!nnrp1.uunet.ca...
>
> > > > An alternative might be the iShift a touch screen shifter/gps/ride
> > > > programmer/speedometer/odometer/powermeter/cell phone/mp3 player/video
> > > > player/personal organizer.
> > > > Now available with voice recognition/wireless brake modulation.
>
> > > If it's the apple iShift, you'd only get one brake lever..
>
> > > cheers,
> > > clive
>
> > Plus, you'd have to send the unit back to Apple for battery
> > replacement at a cost of 79$.
>
> > Peter.
>
> I think you guys have been jaded- honestly, there is a flip-side to
> technological progress and it starts with people imagining the
> possible. I'd be willing to bet that we are more likely to see
> electronic shifting etc as I described than we are not. In the early
> 90s I believed a solid state music player would be the next big
> advance in entertainment, my friend who owns a software company said
> no way, a cd holds way too much memory; now i can put 4 cds without
> compression on a micro sd chip the size of my fingernail- so
> technology advances irregardless; and it will advance whether there be
> a market for it or not- it will create it's own demand. You will have
> flawless shifting and perfect braking always at hand and your old dura
> ace sti will lie in a heap in a box in the bottom of a drawer in your
> workshop. it's just evolution.
We'll have flying cars, too. Just check the Popular Science magazines
from, oh, 1955 or so. ;-)
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 03 Aug 2007 05:23:58
From: Dennis Ferguson
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On 2007-08-03, frkrygow@gmail.com <frkrygow@gmail.com > wrote:
> We'll have flying cars, too. Just check the Popular Science magazines
> from, oh, 1955 or so. ;-)
You can get one here:
http://www.moller.com/
They swear to god it will be certified by the end of 2008. Only
a million dollars for one of the first 100.
Dennis Ferguson
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 23:13:24
From:
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 21:34:50 -0700, frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
>We'll have flying cars, too. Just check the Popular Science magazines
>from, oh, 1955 or so. ;-)
>
>- Frank Krygowski
Dear Frank,
Progress toward the flying bicycle is a bit slow, but surely we can
expect a practical product by 2047, judging by these two data points:
1907:
http://www.earlyaviator.com/archive/DS/DS438.1907.SkyCycle.Dixon.jpg
1977:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gossamer_Condor#History
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 19:36:17
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Aug 2, 9:27 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
<sunsetss0...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> raam...@gmail.com WHO? wrote:
> > On Aug 2, 7:12 pm, Peter Van Buren <ibmis...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Aug 2, 12:35 pm, "Clive George" <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >>> "Marcus Coles" <marco...@ody.ca> wrote in message
> >>>news:Xwnsi.20407$13.16216@nnrp.ca.mci.com!nnrp1.uunet.ca...
> >>>> An alternative might be the iShift a touch screen shifter/gps/ride
> >>>> programmer/speedometer/odometer/powermeter/cell phone/mp3 player/video
> >>>> player/personal organizer.
> >>>> Now available with voice recognition/wireless brake modulation.
> >>> If it's the apple iShift, you'd only get one brake lever..
> >>> cheers,
> >>> clive
> >> Plus, you'd have to send the unit back to Apple for battery
> >> replacement at a cost of 79$.
>
> >> Peter.
>
> > I think you guys have been jaded- honestly, there is a flip-side to
> > technological progress and it starts with people imagining the
> > possible. I'd be willing to bet that we are more likely to see
> > electronic shifting etc as I described than we are not. In the early
> > 90s I believed a solid state music player would be the next big
> > advance in entertainment, my friend who owns a software company said
> > no way, a cd holds way too much memory; now i can put 4 cds without
> > compression on a micro sd chip the size of my fingernail- so
> > technology advances irregardless; and it will advance whether there be
> > a market for it or not- it will create it's own demand. You will have
> > flawless shifting and perfect braking always at hand and your old dura
> > ace sti will lie in a heap in a box in the bottom of a drawer in your
> > workshop...
>
> ...replaced by sensible down-tube or bar-end shifters with an optional
> friction mode! :)
>
>
LOL!! How true.....
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 16:49:21
From: JG
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
"I'd be willing to bet that we are more likely to see
electronic shifting etc as I described than we are not. "
How exactly would you win this bet?-)
JG
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 16:36:51
From:
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Aug 2, 7:12 pm, Peter Van Buren <ibmis...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Aug 2, 12:35 pm, "Clive George" <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > "Marcus Coles" <marco...@ody.ca> wrote in message
>
> >news:Xwnsi.20407$13.16216@nnrp.ca.mci.com!nnrp1.uunet.ca...
>
> > > An alternative might be the iShift a touch screen shifter/gps/ride
> > > programmer/speedometer/odometer/powermeter/cell phone/mp3 player/video
> > > player/personal organizer.
> > > Now available with voice recognition/wireless brake modulation.
>
> > If it's the apple iShift, you'd only get one brake lever..
>
> > cheers,
> > clive
>
> Plus, you'd have to send the unit back to Apple for battery
> replacement at a cost of 79$.
>
> Peter.
I think you guys have been jaded- honestly, there is a flip-side to
technological progress and it starts with people imagining the
possible. I'd be willing to bet that we are more likely to see
electronic shifting etc as I described than we are not. In the early
90s I believed a solid state music player would be the next big
advance in entertainment, my friend who owns a software company said
no way, a cd holds way too much memory; now i can put 4 cds without
compression on a micro sd chip the size of my fingernail- so
technology advances irregardless; and it will advance whether there be
a market for it or not- it will create it's own demand. You will have
flawless shifting and perfect braking always at hand and your old dura
ace sti will lie in a heap in a box in the bottom of a drawer in your
workshop. it's just evolution.
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 21:27:49
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
raamman@gmail.com WHO? wrote:
> On Aug 2, 7:12 pm, Peter Van Buren <ibmis...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Aug 2, 12:35 pm, "Clive George" <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> "Marcus Coles" <marco...@ody.ca> wrote in message
>>> news:Xwnsi.20407$13.16216@nnrp.ca.mci.com!nnrp1.uunet.ca...
>>>> An alternative might be the iShift a touch screen shifter/gps/ride
>>>> programmer/speedometer/odometer/powermeter/cell phone/mp3 player/video
>>>> player/personal organizer.
>>>> Now available with voice recognition/wireless brake modulation.
>>> If it's the apple iShift, you'd only get one brake lever..
>>> cheers,
>>> clive
>> Plus, you'd have to send the unit back to Apple for battery
>> replacement at a cost of 79$.
>>
>> Peter.
>
> I think you guys have been jaded- honestly, there is a flip-side to
> technological progress and it starts with people imagining the
> possible. I'd be willing to bet that we are more likely to see
> electronic shifting etc as I described than we are not. In the early
> 90s I believed a solid state music player would be the next big
> advance in entertainment, my friend who owns a software company said
> no way, a cd holds way too much memory; now i can put 4 cds without
> compression on a micro sd chip the size of my fingernail- so
> technology advances irregardless; and it will advance whether there be
> a market for it or not- it will create it's own demand. You will have
> flawless shifting and perfect braking always at hand and your old dura
> ace sti will lie in a heap in a box in the bottom of a drawer in your
> workshop...
...replaced by sensible down-tube or bar-end shifters with an optional
friction mode! :)
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 16:12:01
From: Peter Van Buren
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Aug 2, 12:35 pm, "Clive George" <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk > wrote:
> "Marcus Coles" <marco...@ody.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:Xwnsi.20407$13.16216@nnrp.ca.mci.com!nnrp1.uunet.ca...
>
> > An alternative might be the iShift a touch screen shifter/gps/ride
> > programmer/speedometer/odometer/powermeter/cell phone/mp3 player/video
> > player/personal organizer.
> > Now available with voice recognition/wireless brake modulation.
>
> If it's the apple iShift, you'd only get one brake lever..
>
> cheers,
> clive
Plus, you'd have to send the unit back to Apple for battery
replacement at a cost of 79$.
Peter.
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 14:41:18
From: Joe Bernard
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Aug 2, 10:24 am, Ron Ruff <rruffrr...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Aug 1, 7:38 pm, Joe Bernard <josephrbern...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > I doubt battery life is going to be a daily issue. Maybe yearly, like
> > bike computers. Sssh, don't tell the hobbits.
>
> These things will take a lot of juice, so we are talking Li-ion
> rechargable battery packs.
Sorry, I meant good for recharges for at least a year. Although now
that I think about it, I would be happier with a 3 year life cycle.
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 11:54:07
From: JG
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
I don't think it succeed, unless, as I said, they integrate the front
and rear shifting and use a half step setup to double the gear
density. It simply doesn't add anything Bowden cable doesn't
provide. And you will not be able to use button batteries because,
unlike a speedometer, you have to do actual mechanical lifting.
Remember, no one uses aero seatposts these days...
It could be the basis for an "automatic" drivetrain, but unless they
figure out how to clutch it, shifting under load will eat chains like
crazy. (Hmm, yet another upside for the manufacturers...;) And you
still wouldn't want it shifting for you in the middle of an
intersection... So at best it would light up and suggest you consider
shifting, and that capacity could be provided with last year's
cyclometers and nobody has yet...
JG
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 10:24:40
From: Ron Ruff
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Aug 1, 7:38 pm, Joe Bernard <josephrbern...@sbcglobal.net > wrote:
> I doubt battery life is going to be a daily issue. Maybe yearly, like
> bike computers. Sssh, don't tell the hobbits.
These things will take a lot of juice, so we are talking Li-ion
rechargable battery packs.
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 08:53:43
From:
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Aug 2, 5:26 am, Michael Warner <m...@westnet.com.au > wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 16:23:22 -0000, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
> > And yet, the same thing can be said for STI in general, and 53-11
> > gears
>
> I find both of these very useful. I don't race, but I go out with racers
> on some of their training rides, and I would get dropped without them.
It's not that _nobody_ really makes use of them. In my mind, the
issue is that _everybody_ becomes convinced they need them, and that
bicycling is terrible without them. Most riders never learn the
detriments until too late - detriments like getting high gears they'll
never need, and missing low gears they could really use. Or having
expensive, unrepairable mechanisms on an otherwise beautifully simple
machine. Or wading into the seas of incompatibility.
For some, the tradeoff is worth it. But many more just get suckered.
It's roughly comparable to marketing 5000 pound, 400 horsepower four-
wheel-drive SUVs to family buyers, using images of SUVs clambering
over boulders. Most buyers simply don't need the capability that's
being advertised as essential.
> And unlike electronic shifting, they don't make the bike significantly
> less reliable.
True, up to a point.
But when your bike is old enough to be called a "classic," do you
suppose your shifters will still work?
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 08:39:09
From:
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Aug 2, 1:05 am, raam...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Aug 2, 12:34 am, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
>
> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Like electronic warfare during races to mung up shifting and braking?
>
> a simple crypto key would deal with that.
Hmm. I think I'll upshift. Let's see: "Menu." "Gearing." "Change
gears..." "Shift up." Click...
What the heck? Double click... Double click... Nothing??
Oh jeez, I was in fixed gear mode. How do I get out of that?
"Help."
Type in "Fixed gear" ... no... try "Gear, fixed" ... no... try
"Modes" ... good grief, there's five pages... and now I need to
downshift!
Search "Modes fixed"...
Never mind. Now I need to walk.
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 12:22:12
From: Marcus Coles
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
> On Aug 2, 1:05 am, raam...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Aug 2, 12:34 am, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
>>
>> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Like electronic warfare during races to mung up shifting and braking?
>> a simple crypto key would deal with that.
>
> Hmm. I think I'll upshift. Let's see: "Menu." "Gearing." "Change
> gears..." "Shift up." Click...
>
> What the heck? Double click... Double click... Nothing??
>
> Oh jeez, I was in fixed gear mode. How do I get out of that?
>
> "Help."
>
> Type in "Fixed gear" ... no... try "Gear, fixed" ... no... try
> "Modes" ... good grief, there's five pages... and now I need to
> downshift!
>
> Search "Modes fixed"...
>
> Never mind. Now I need to walk.
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>
It's not going to be that bad, there will be "Shifty" the interactive
help icon.
An alternative might be the iShift a touch screen shifter/gps/ride
programmer/speedometer/odometer/powermeter/cell phone/mp3 player/video
player/personal organizer.
Now available with voice recognition/wireless brake modulation.
Riding requires administrative powers and may not be safe.
Are you sure? Yes/No/Cancel
Marcus
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| | | |
Date: 02 Aug 2007 18:11:29
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
In article
<Xwnsi.20407$13.16216@nnrp.ca.mci.com!nnrp1.uunet.ca >,
Marcus Coles <marcoles@ody.ca > wrote:
> frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Aug 2, 1:05 am, raam...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Aug 2, 12:34 am, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
> >>
> >> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Like electronic warfare during races to mung up shifting and braking?
> >> a simple crypto key would deal with that.
> >
> > Hmm. I think I'll upshift. Let's see: "Menu." "Gearing." "Change
> > gears..." "Shift up." Click...
> >
> > What the heck? Double click... Double click... Nothing??
> >
> > Oh jeez, I was in fixed gear mode. How do I get out of that?
> >
> > "Help."
> >
> > Type in "Fixed gear" ... no... try "Gear, fixed" ... no... try
> > "Modes" ... good grief, there's five pages... and now I need to
> > downshift!
> >
> > Search "Modes fixed"...
> >
> > Never mind. Now I need to walk.
> >
> It's not going to be that bad, there will be "Shifty" the interactive
> help icon.
>
> An alternative might be the iShift a touch screen shifter/gps/ride
> programmer/speedometer/odometer/powermeter/cell phone/mp3 player/video
> player/personal organizer.
> Now available with voice recognition/wireless brake modulation.
>
> Riding requires administrative powers and may not be safe.
> Are you sure? Yes/No/Cancel
You guys are nuts.
--
Michael Press
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| | | |
Date: 02 Aug 2007 17:35:52
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
"Marcus Coles" <marcoles@ody.ca > wrote in message
news:Xwnsi.20407$13.16216@nnrp.ca.mci.com!nnrp1.uunet.ca...
> An alternative might be the iShift a touch screen shifter/gps/ride
> programmer/speedometer/odometer/powermeter/cell phone/mp3 player/video
> player/personal organizer.
> Now available with voice recognition/wireless brake modulation.
If it's the apple iShift, you'd only get one brake lever..
cheers,
clive
|
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 08:33:49
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Aug 2, 10:27 am, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Aug 2, 11:19 am, cv <jazzyb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > ... I remember one ride I did
> > where electric shifters would have come in handy. I rode a double
> > century once in the rain, and for some reason my left hand gave out from
> > the shifting load. I have weak hands to start with, so that would have
> > come in handy on that ride. Instead, I had to reach over with my right
> > hand to shift the left lever. ...
>
> But, as with racing, your application (a double century) doesn't have
> much to do with the vast majority of cyclists, even sport cyclists.
>
> As with everything, there's the question of benefits versus
> detriments. Marketing succeeds by touting the benefits, and marketing
> gets the big budget and the magazine space, both in ads and in
> articles. Discussions like this that point out the detriments - but
> most sport cyclists see only the "Gee Whiz!" reviews in Buycycling.
> (Ever notice how few of their "verdicts" are negative?)
>
> I'm familiar enough with electrical problems on bikes, just regarding
> cyclometers, headlights and taillights, that I'd want nothing to do
> with electric shifting. I've had batteries go weak or die, or lose
> contact on hitting a bump. I've had intermittent electrical contact
> through corrosion at connections. I've had wires snag and either
> unplug or break. I've spent time tediously splicing hair-thin
> cyclometer wires. I've had short or open circuits that were a puzzle
> to locate.
>
> Risk those things affecting my shifting, for the benefit of not moving
> my hands? No thanks.
>
Very well stated.
|
| |
Date: 02 Aug 2007 08:27:53
From:
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Aug 2, 11:19 am, cv <jazzyb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> ... I remember one ride I did
> where electric shifters would have come in handy. I rode a double
> century once in the rain, and for some reason my left hand gave out from
> the shifting load. I have weak hands to start with, so that would have
> come in handy on that ride. Instead, I had to reach over with my right
> hand to shift the left lever. ...
But, as with racing, your application (a double century) doesn't have
much to do with the vast majority of cyclists, even sport cyclists.
As with everything, there's the question of benefits versus
detriments. Marketing succeeds by touting the benefits, and marketing
gets the big budget and the magazine space, both in ads and in
articles. Discussions like this that point out the detriments - but
most sport cyclists see only the "Gee Whiz!" reviews in Buycycling.
(Ever notice how few of their "verdicts" are negative?)
I'm familiar enough with electrical problems on bikes, just regarding
cyclometers, headlights and taillights, that I'd want nothing to do
with electric shifting. I've had batteries go weak or die, or lose
contact on hitting a bump. I've had intermittent electrical contact
through corrosion at connections. I've had wires snag and either
unplug or break. I've spent time tediously splicing hair-thin
cyclometer wires. I've had short or open circuits that were a puzzle
to locate.
Risk those things affecting my shifting, for the benefit of not moving
my hands? No thanks.
- Frank Krygowski
|
| |
Date: 02 Aug 2007 07:42:23
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Aug 2, 10:19 am, cv <jazzyb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> >> Its 2007, both Campy and Shimano have electronic shifting. Let's see
> >> how well they perform! But, until something appears that is more than
> >> just a prototype, I wouldn't get too worked up.
>
> > The noteworthy thing is that both companies have been sneaking this
> > technology onto pro bikes for a couple of years. I suspect it partly
> > exists as a tactical research project: neither company may believe their
> > system is ready for prime time, but both need a hedge against the other
> > company introducing the thing.
>
> ----------
> I've been going in the opposite direction, but I remember one ride I did
> where electric shifters would have come in handy. I rode a double
> century once in the rain, and for some reason my left hand gave out from
> the shifting load. I have weak hands to start with, so that would have
> come in handy on that ride. Instead, I had to reach over with my right
> hand to shift the left lever. I use a triple, so I just kept it in the
> middle ring, unless it was obvious I had to go to the big or to the
> granny ring. Sometimes my hands get cramps either from dehydration, or
> not enough electrolytes, or maybe they're just weak, but on those very
> long rides an electric shifter would make things a lot easier.
Perhaps an "electronic device*" down in the BB shell to help with
pedaling would help, too?
*[we'll leave it to the marketeers to come with a hot new word for
"motor"]
|
| |
Date: 01 Aug 2007 22:05:32
From:
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Aug 2, 12:34 am, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
<sunsetss0...@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
> Like electronic warfare during races to mung up shifting and braking?
>
a simple crypto key would deal with that.
|
| |
Date: 01 Aug 2007 20:41:06
From:
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Aug 1, 5:05 pm, raam...@gmail.com wrote:
> bluetooth disc brakes
Unsursbcribe
|
| |
Date: 01 Aug 2007 18:38:40
From: Joe Bernard
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Aug 1, 6:26 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
>
> Shhh! You be drummed out of the Royal Order of GP Suckups.
>
> > You be talking funny.
>
> There's something to look forward to: stopping to replace a battery so
> you can continue your ride.
I doubt battery life is going to be a daily issue. Maybe yearly, like
bike computers. Sssh, don't tell the hobbits.
|
| |
Date: 01 Aug 2007 18:26:38
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Aug 1, 8:09 pm, Joe Bernard <josephrbern...@sbcglobal.net > wrote:
> On Aug 1, 5:41 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 1, 5:37 pm, Joe Bernard <josephrbern...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 1, 11:30 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > On Aug 1, 12:08 pm, Alex <a...@columbia.edu> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jul 31, 7:32 pm, ron.r.geo...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > > I just don't get the whole point of electronic shifting. What happens
> > > > > > when the battery dies on a climb? I'd like nothing electronic on my
> > > > > > bike.
>
> > > > > One good thing is that you can put the shifter buttons on multiple
> > > > > locations.
> > > > > So you always have a shifter handy no matter where you hands are on
> > > > > the bar.
>
> > > > And that *may* be a benefit to those who actually race (i.e., poseurs,
> > > > wannabes and Walter Mitty types not included). However, that is a very
> > > > small piece of the market; in order for electronic shifting to be
> > > > profitable to develop, it will have to be foisted off on recreational
> > > > cyclists, who will likely derive scant benefit, especially when the
> > > > downsides (cost, loss of reliability, etc.) are taken into account.
>
> > > > Just imagine these electronic shifting contraptions on a touring
> > > > bike. :((
>
> > > Get used to it girls. Racers, techies, and ride-20-miles-on-sunny-
> > > weekenders are gonna love it. That *is* the recreational road bike
> > > market
>
> > Whilst the Riv-ites are the *serious* cyclists, right?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Don't be paranoid, Ozark.
Don't be patronizing, Joe.
> Racers, techies and 20-milers are legitimate
> riders.
I'm sure they will bask in your approval.
> My point is that for every retrogrouch, tourer or "Riv-ite"
> who scoffs at electronics on bicycles, there's a much larger majority
> of buyers that will love it. I personally think being able to lightly
> tap a button in several different locations to execute a shift is
> pretty nifty.
Shhh! You be drummed out of the Royal Order of GP Suckups.
> I wouldn't want to rely on it in a tour through the
> Amazon, but I think it would be fine for most day rides. If you can
> carry a spare tube, you can carry a spare battery.-
There's something to look forward to: stopping to replace a battery so
you can continue your ride.
|
| |
Date: 01 Aug 2007 18:09:29
From: Joe Bernard
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Aug 1, 5:41 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Aug 1, 5:37 pm, Joe Bernard <josephrbern...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 1, 11:30 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > On Aug 1, 12:08 pm, Alex <a...@columbia.edu> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 31, 7:32 pm, ron.r.geo...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > I just don't get the whole point of electronic shifting. What happens
> > > > > when the battery dies on a climb? I'd like nothing electronic on my
> > > > > bike.
>
> > > > One good thing is that you can put the shifter buttons on multiple
> > > > locations.
> > > > So you always have a shifter handy no matter where you hands are on
> > > > the bar.
>
> > > And that *may* be a benefit to those who actually race (i.e., poseurs,
> > > wannabes and Walter Mitty types not included). However, that is a very
> > > small piece of the market; in order for electronic shifting to be
> > > profitable to develop, it will have to be foisted off on recreational
> > > cyclists, who will likely derive scant benefit, especially when the
> > > downsides (cost, loss of reliability, etc.) are taken into account.
>
> > > Just imagine these electronic shifting contraptions on a touring
> > > bike. :((
>
> > Get used to it girls. Racers, techies, and ride-20-miles-on-sunny-
> > weekenders are gonna love it. That *is* the recreational road bike
> > market
>
> Whilst the Riv-ites are the *serious* cyclists, right?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Don't be paranoid, Ozark. Racers, techies and 20-milers are legitimate
riders. My point is that for every retrogrouch, tourer or "Riv-ite"
who scoffs at electronics on bicycles, there's a much larger majority
of buyers that will love it. I personally think being able to lightly
tap a button in several different locations to execute a shift is
pretty nifty. I wouldn't want to rely on it in a tour through the
Amazon, but I think it would be fine for most day rides. If you can
carry a spare tube, you can carry a spare battery.
|
| |
Date: 01 Aug 2007 17:41:51
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Aug 1, 5:37 pm, Joe Bernard <josephrbern...@sbcglobal.net > wrote:
> On Aug 1, 11:30 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 1, 12:08 pm, Alex <a...@columbia.edu> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 31, 7:32 pm, ron.r.geo...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > I just don't get the whole point of electronic shifting. What happens
> > > > when the battery dies on a climb? I'd like nothing electronic on my
> > > > bike.
>
> > > One good thing is that you can put the shifter buttons on multiple
> > > locations.
> > > So you always have a shifter handy no matter where you hands are on
> > > the bar.
>
> > And that *may* be a benefit to those who actually race (i.e., poseurs,
> > wannabes and Walter Mitty types not included). However, that is a very
> > small piece of the market; in order for electronic shifting to be
> > profitable to develop, it will have to be foisted off on recreational
> > cyclists, who will likely derive scant benefit, especially when the
> > downsides (cost, loss of reliability, etc.) are taken into account.
>
> > Just imagine these electronic shifting contraptions on a touring
> > bike. :((
>
> Get used to it girls. Racers, techies, and ride-20-miles-on-sunny-
> weekenders are gonna love it. That *is* the recreational road bike
> market
Whilst the Riv-ites are the *serious* cyclists, right?
|
| |
Date: 01 Aug 2007 16:05:18
From:
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Aug 1, 9:05 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net > wrote:
> opa...@gmail.com wrote:
> > After seeing the tech report on the electric shifters from Campy used
> > in this year's Tour, wondering if Sheldon (or others) had any info or
> > opinions on them...
>
> > Cheers!
>
> Ct = 0.9
>
> listen to the retro-grouch whiners! they sound like the retrogrouch
> whiners that complained about electronic ignition. they sound like the
> retrogrouch whiners that complained about fuel injection. they sound
> like the retrogrouch whiners that complained about the death of the abacus.
>
> point is, all this stuff has to do is pass two simple tests.
>
> 1. does it work as well as the old stuff?
> 2. does it offer any improvement?
>
> imo, if it's smart enough to trim itself to not need adjustment thereby
> passing test #2, it'll be a winner. anything that takes the idiot
> factor out of the lbs is a good thing.
well there could be numerous benefits in time, such that we'll shake
our head remembering the old days how we used to do it. consider, a
small watch battery to operate the derailer; there is no spring
tension to overcome, just a small actuator would engage and your
padaling will cause the gear shift- so you'd have considerable weight
savings AND reliability- no cable stretch, grime in the shifters or
the cables; the derailer could be a completely sealed unit. you could
wear your shifter as a ring so it's always at hand- combine that with
bluetooth disc brakes and you can see there are a lot of possibilities
to look forward to.
|
| | |
Date: 01 Aug 2007 23:34:47
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
raamman@gmail.com who? wrote:
> On Aug 1, 9:05 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> opa...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> After seeing the tech report on the electric shifters from Campy used
>>> in this year's Tour, wondering if Sheldon (or others) had any info or
>>> opinions on them...
>>> Cheers!
>> Ct = 0.9
>>
>> listen to the retro-grouch whiners! they sound like the retrogrouch
>> whiners that complained about electronic ignition. they sound like the
>> retrogrouch whiners that complained about fuel injection. they sound
>> like the retrogrouch whiners that complained about the death of the abacus.
>>
>> point is, all this stuff has to do is pass two simple tests.
>>
>> 1. does it work as well as the old stuff?
>> 2. does it offer any improvement?
>>
>> imo, if it's smart enough to trim itself to not need adjustment thereby
>> passing test #2, it'll be a winner. anything that takes the idiot
>> factor out of the lbs is a good thing.
>
> well there could be numerous benefits in time, such that we'll shake
> our head remembering the old days how we used to do it. consider, a
> small watch battery to operate the derailer; there is no spring
> tension to overcome, just a small actuator would engage and your
> padaling will cause the gear shift- so you'd have considerable weight
> savings AND reliability- no cable stretch, grime in the shifters or
> the cables; the derailer could be a completely sealed unit. you could
> wear your shifter as a ring so it's always at hand- combine that with
> bluetooth disc brakes and you can see there are a lot of possibilities
> to look forward to.
Like electronic warfare during races to mung up shifting and braking?
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| |
Date: 01 Aug 2007 15:37:30
From: Joe Bernard
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Aug 1, 11:30 am, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Aug 1, 12:08 pm, Alex <a...@columbia.edu> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 31, 7:32 pm, ron.r.geo...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > I just don't get the whole point of electronic shifting. What happens
> > > when the battery dies on a climb? I'd like nothing electronic on my
> > > bike.
>
> > One good thing is that you can put the shifter buttons on multiple
> > locations.
> > So you always have a shifter handy no matter where you hands are on
> > the bar.
>
> And that *may* be a benefit to those who actually race (i.e., poseurs,
> wannabes and Walter Mitty types not included). However, that is a very
> small piece of the market; in order for electronic shifting to be
> profitable to develop, it will have to be foisted off on recreational
> cyclists, who will likely derive scant benefit, especially when the
> downsides (cost, loss of reliability, etc.) are taken into account.
>
> Just imagine these electronic shifting contraptions on a touring
> bike. :((
Get used to it girls. Racers, techies, and ride-20-miles-on-sunny-
weekenders are gonna love it. That *is* the recreational road bike
market.
|
| |
Date: 01 Aug 2007 11:30:23
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Aug 1, 12:08 pm, Alex <a...@columbia.edu > wrote:
> On Jul 31, 7:32 pm, ron.r.geo...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > I just don't get the whole point of electronic shifting. What happens
> > when the battery dies on a climb? I'd like nothing electronic on my
> > bike.
>
> One good thing is that you can put the shifter buttons on multiple
> locations.
> So you always have a shifter handy no matter where you hands are on
> the bar.
And that *may* be a benefit to those who actually race (i.e., poseurs,
wannabes and Walter Mitty types not included). However, that is a very
small piece of the market; in order for electronic shifting to be
profitable to develop, it will have to be foisted off on recreational
cyclists, who will likely derive scant benefit, especially when the
downsides (cost, loss of reliability, etc.) are taken into account.
Just imagine these electronic shifting contraptions on a touring
bike. :((
|
| |
Date: 01 Aug 2007 10:08:43
From: Alex
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Jul 31, 7:32 pm, ron.r.geo...@gmail.com wrote:
> I just don't get the whole point of electronic shifting. What happens
> when the battery dies on a climb? I'd like nothing electronic on my
> bike.
One good thing is that you can put the shifter buttons on multiple
locations.
So you always have a shifter handy no matter where you hands are on
the bar.
-------------------------
Alex
|
| |
Date: 01 Aug 2007 16:23:22
From:
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Jul 31, 9:53 pm, Michael Warner <m...@westnet.com.au > wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:32:04 -0700, ron.r.geo...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I just don't get the whole point of electronic shifting.
>
> The only plausible argument I've seen supporting it is that
> a sprinter would find it easier to use when going flat out.
> Hardly compelling enough for 99.9% of cyclists, especially
> without a car following us with a replacement battery and
> complete bike.
Exactly.
And yet, the same thing can be said for STI in general, and 53-11
gears, and each five grams that get removed from a bike frame, and so
on.
The only justification many cyclists need is "Oh, the racers use it!
And it makes my riding 0.001% easier, so I've _got_ to have it!"
If they market it, it will sell. And anyone who doesn't rave about it
will be mocked.
- Frank Krygowski
|
| | |
Date: 02 Aug 2007 18:56:52
From: Michael Warner
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 16:23:22 -0000, frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
> And yet, the same thing can be said for STI in general, and 53-11
> gears
I find both of these very useful. I don't race, but I go out with racers
on some of their training rides, and I would get dropped without them.
And unlike electronic shifting, they don't make the bike significantly
less reliable.
|
| | | |
Date: 02 Aug 2007 19:00:04
From: Lou Holtman
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
Michael Warner wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 16:23:22 -0000, frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> And yet, the same thing can be said for STI in general, and 53-11
>> gears
>
> And unlike electronic shifting, they don't make the bike significantly
> less reliable.
How can you say that, it isn't even on the market yet.
Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu (http://www.nb.nu)
|
| | |
Date: 01 Aug 2007 23:29:20
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
frkrygow@gmail.com aka Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On Jul 31, 9:53 pm, Michael Warner <m...@westnet.com.au> wrote:
>> On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:32:04 -0700, ron.r.geo...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I just don't get the whole point of electronic shifting.
>> The only plausible argument I've seen supporting it is that
>> a sprinter would find it easier to use when going flat out.
>> Hardly compelling enough for 99.9% of cyclists, especially
>> without a car following us with a replacement battery and
>> complete bike.
>
> Exactly.
>
> And yet, the same thing can be said for STI in general, and 53-11
> gears, and each five grams that get removed from a bike frame, and so
> on.
>
> The only justification many cyclists need is "Oh, the racers use it!
> And it makes my riding 0.001% easier, so I've _got_ to have it!"
>
> If they market it, it will sell. And anyone who doesn't rave about it
> will be mocked.
Except on rec.bicycles.tech. :)
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | |
Date: 01 Aug 2007 19:37:39
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
Dans le message de
news:1185985402.313481.203570@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com,
frkrygow@gmail.com <frkrygow@gmail.com > a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> On Jul 31, 9:53 pm, Michael Warner <m...@westnet.com.au> wrote:
>> On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:32:04 -0700, ron.r.geo...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I just don't get the whole point of electronic shifting.
>>
>> The only plausible argument I've seen supporting it is that
>> a sprinter would find it easier to use when going flat out.
>> Hardly compelling enough for 99.9% of cyclists, especially
>> without a car following us with a replacement battery and
>> complete bike.
>
> Exactly.
>
> And yet, the same thing can be said for STI in general, and 53-11
> gears, and each five grams that get removed from a bike frame, and so
> on.
>
> The only justification many cyclists need is "Oh, the racers use it!
> And it makes my riding 0.001% easier, so I've _got_ to have it!"
>
> If they market it, it will sell. And anyone who doesn't rave about it
> will be mocked.
>
> - Frank Krygowski
Well, not everyone is an old fart on a bike like you. Some who read here
may be racers, as in that 0.1% remaining. How many could that be? Don't
know, but it sure doesn't include you. When you are racing, RACING, it may
just count, and work, and contribute to a better result. Don't worry - your
trip to the supermarket is not included. Shift with any available
appendage, even if not in current use.
--
Sandy
The above is guaranteed 100% free of sarcasm,
denigration, snotty remarks, indifference, platitudes, fuming demands that
"you do the math", conceited visions of a better world on wheels according
to [insert NAME here].
|
| |
Date: 01 Aug 2007 06:05:33
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
opalko@gmail.com wrote:
> After seeing the tech report on the electric shifters from Campy used
> in this year's Tour, wondering if Sheldon (or others) had any info or
> opinions on them...
>
> Cheers!
>
Ct = 0.9
listen to the retro-grouch whiners! they sound like the retrogrouch
whiners that complained about electronic ignition. they sound like the
retrogrouch whiners that complained about fuel injection. they sound
like the retrogrouch whiners that complained about the death of the abacus.
point is, all this stuff has to do is pass two simple tests.
1. does it work as well as the old stuff?
2. does it offer any improvement?
imo, if it's smart enough to trim itself to not need adjustment thereby
passing test #2, it'll be a winner. anything that takes the idiot
factor out of the lbs is a good thing.
|
| |
Date: 31 Jul 2007 21:48:35
From: Nate Knutson
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Jul 31, 12:12 pm, "opa...@gmail.com" <opa...@gmail.com > wrote:
> After seeing the tech report on the electric shifters from Campy used
> in this year's Tour, wondering if Sheldon (or others) had any info or
> opinions on them...
>
> Cheers!
It sucks horribly. It's another thing that's unnecessary in any kind
of practical sense but gives a significant enough advantage in a race
to be relevant there. It's more electronic shit to be produced in a
world that really doesn't need it. It is yet another thing that pushes
bikes as a whole, and road bikes in particular, in the more expensive
direction. It's going to be a milestone in componentry that doesn't
interchange well or at all. And it's main function, in the end, is
going to be to further cater to and enthrone the typical consumer's
moronic fears and confusions about shifting.
The way things are going, in 6-8 years from now it probably will have
trickled down into around 105/Centaur/Veloce level groups. That's the
point where Shimano and Campy's production of decent quality
components that don't use it will begin to get dicey. Not stop
outright, but options will start drying up, never to come back. I bet
mechanical non-Escape Ergos will be gone a few years before that.
Mechanical 9 and 10 speed bar-end shifters made by Shimano and Campy
will become extinct. Hopefully someone else will fill in some of the
holes.
Just my own guesses, of course, but it's sort of the way things work
right now...
|
| |
Date: 31 Jul 2007 18:30:44
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Jul 31, 6:32 pm, ron.r.geo...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 31, 6:04 pm, JG <j...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > My guess is that, if electronic shifting is successful, we will see
> > the return of half-step gearing. A ten speed cluster is pretty much
> > the limit. Right now you can run straight cassettes (12-21) with a
> > compact crank, cover the racing range, and not have any place to add
> > another gear. But, if you went to half step (or 1/3 step triples
> > anyone?), you suddenly have double density. You could have a twist
> > dail that calculates where to throw the chain depending upon how much
> > you twist it. Nearly continuous gearing...
>
> > JG
>
> I just don't get the whole point of electronic shifting.
S-a-l-e-s G-i-m-m-i-c-k
>What happens
> when the battery dies on a climb?
Welcome to S***'s Creek!
I'd like nothing electronic on my
> bike.
>
Maybe a simple cyclo-computer....
|
| |
Date: 31 Jul 2007 16:32:04
From:
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Jul 31, 6:04 pm, JG <j...@cox.net > wrote:
> My guess is that, if electronic shifting is successful, we will see
> the return of half-step gearing. A ten speed cluster is pretty much
> the limit. Right now you can run straight cassettes (12-21) with a
> compact crank, cover the racing range, and not have any place to add
> another gear. But, if you went to half step (or 1/3 step triples
> anyone?), you suddenly have double density. You could have a twist
> dail that calculates where to throw the chain depending upon how much
> you twist it. Nearly continuous gearing...
>
> JG
I just don't get the whole point of electronic shifting. What happens
when the battery dies on a climb? I'd like nothing electronic on my
bike.
BD
|
| | |
Date: 01 Aug 2007 11:23:30
From: Michael Warner
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:32:04 -0700, ron.r.george@gmail.com wrote:
> I just don't get the whole point of electronic shifting.
The only plausible argument I've seen supporting it is that
a sprinter would find it easier to use when going flat out.
Hardly compelling enough for 99.9% of cyclists, especially
without a car following us with a replacement battery and
complete bike.
|
| |
Date: 31 Jul 2007 15:04:35
From: JG
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
My guess is that, if electronic shifting is successful, we will see
the return of half-step gearing. A ten speed cluster is pretty much
the limit. Right now you can run straight cassettes (12-21) with a
compact crank, cover the racing range, and not have any place to add
another gear. But, if you went to half step (or 1/3 step triples
anyone?), you suddenly have double density. You could have a twist
dail that calculates where to throw the chain depending upon how much
you twist it. Nearly continuous gearing...
JG
|
| |
Date: 31 Jul 2007 14:44:34
From: bfd
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Jul 31, 2:09 pm, raam...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 31, 3:26 pm, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 31, 12:12 pm, "opa...@gmail.com" <opa...@gmail.com> wrote:> After seeing the tech report on the electric shifters from Campy used
> > > in this year's Tour, wondering if Sheldon (or others) had any info or
> > > opinions on them...
>
> > Well, since electric shifters are still just "prototypes," I doubt
> > Sheldon or anybody else has seen or tried them to be able to form an
> > opinion.
>
> > For more info, I would just follow the various cycling sites likewww.cyclingnews.com
>
> > In fact, here's a few write ups:
>
> > Shimano:http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2007/features/dauphine_li...
>
> > Campy photos:http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/tech/index.php?id=/photos...
>
> > To keep abreast of all things Campy, check out the "rumors" page at
> > Campy Only:http://www.campyonly.com/rumors.html
>
> > Pez has a nice write up too:http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=4772
>
> mavic had a set out about 12 years ago- Hide quoted text -
>
So, what does that have to do with anything? Obviously, the Mavic
version was a failure.
Its 2007, both Campy and Shimano have electronic shifting. Let's see
how well they perform! But, until something appears that is more than
just a prototype, I wouldn't get too worked up.
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Date: 01 Aug 2007 01:16:50
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
In article <1185918274.743353.261900@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com >,
bfd <bfd853@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Jul 31, 2:09 pm, raam...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Jul 31, 3:26 pm, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jul 31, 12:12 pm, "opa...@gmail.com" <opa...@gmail.com> wrote:> After
> > > seeing the tech report on the electric shifters from Campy used
> > > > in this year's Tour, wondering if Sheldon (or others) had any info or
> > > > opinions on them...
> >
> > > Well, since electric shifters are still just "prototypes," I doubt
> > > Sheldon or anybody else has seen or tried them to be able to form an
> > > opinion.
> >
> > > For more info, I would just follow the various cycling sites
> > > likewww.cyclingnews.com
> >
> > > In fact, here's a few write ups:
> >
> > > Shimano:http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2007/features/dauphine
> > > _li...
> >
> > > Campy
> > > photos:http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/tech/index.php?id=/phot
> > > os...
> >
> > > To keep abreast of all things Campy, check out the "rumors" page at
> > > Campy Only:http://www.campyonly.com/rumors.html
> >
> > > Pez has a nice write up
> > > too:http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=4772
> >
> > mavic had a set out about 12 years ago- Hide quoted text -
> >
> So, what does that have to do with anything? Obviously, the Mavic
> version was a failure.
>
> Its 2007, both Campy and Shimano have electronic shifting. Let's see
> how well they perform! But, until something appears that is more than
> just a prototype, I wouldn't get too worked up.
The noteworthy thing is that both companies have been sneaking this
technology onto pro bikes for a couple of years. I suspect it partly
exists as a tactical research project: neither company may believe their
system is ready for prime time, but both need a hedge against the other
company introducing the thing.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 08:19:56
From: cv
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
>> Its 2007, both Campy and Shimano have electronic shifting. Let's see
>> how well they perform! But, until something appears that is more than
>> just a prototype, I wouldn't get too worked up.
>
> The noteworthy thing is that both companies have been sneaking this
> technology onto pro bikes for a couple of years. I suspect it partly
> exists as a tactical research project: neither company may believe their
> system is ready for prime time, but both need a hedge against the other
> company introducing the thing.
----------
I've been going in the opposite direction, but I remember one ride I did
where electric shifters would have come in handy. I rode a double
century once in the rain, and for some reason my left hand gave out from
the shifting load. I have weak hands to start with, so that would have
come in handy on that ride. Instead, I had to reach over with my right
hand to shift the left lever. I use a triple, so I just kept it in the
middle ring, unless it was obvious I had to go to the big or to the
granny ring. Sometimes my hands get cramps either from dehydration, or
not enough electrolytes, or maybe they're just weak, but on those very
long rides an electric shifter would make things a lot easier.
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 15:33:22
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
"cv" <jazzyboss@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:13b3qebeetrlu2e@corp.supernews.com...
> I've been going in the opposite direction, but I remember one ride I did
> where electric shifters would have come in handy. I rode a double century
> once in the rain, and for some reason my left hand gave out from the
> shifting load. I have weak hands to start with, so that would have come
> in handy on that ride. Instead, I had to reach over with my right hand to
> shift the left lever. I use a triple, so I just kept it in the middle
> ring, unless it was obvious I had to go to the big or to the granny ring.
> Sometimes my hands get cramps either from dehydration, or not enough
> electrolytes, or maybe they're just weak, but on those very long rides an
> electric shifter would make things a lot easier.
What do you do for braking in that situation?
cheers,
clive
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Date: 31 Jul 2007 14:09:00
From:
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Jul 31, 3:26 pm, bfd <bfd...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Jul 31, 12:12 pm, "opa...@gmail.com" <opa...@gmail.com> wrote:> After seeing the tech report on the electric shifters from Campy used
> > in this year's Tour, wondering if Sheldon (or others) had any info or
> > opinions on them...
>
> Well, since electric shifters are still just "prototypes," I doubt
> Sheldon or anybody else has seen or tried them to be able to form an
> opinion.
>
> For more info, I would just follow the various cycling sites likewww.cyclingnews.com
>
> In fact, here's a few write ups:
>
> Shimano:http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2007/features/dauphine_li...
>
> Campy photos:http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/tech/index.php?id=/photos...
>
> To keep abreast of all things Campy, check out the "rumors" page at
> Campy Only:http://www.campyonly.com/rumors.html
>
> Pez has a nice write up too:http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=4772
mavic had a set out about 12 years ago
|
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Date: 31 Jul 2007 12:26:02
From: bfd
Subject: Re: Electric shifters
|
On Jul 31, 12:12 pm, "opa...@gmail.com" <opa...@gmail.com > wrote:
> After seeing the tech report on the electric shifters from Campy used
> in this year's Tour, wondering if Sheldon (or others) had any info or
> opinions on them...
>
Well, since electric shifters are still just "prototypes," I doubt
Sheldon or anybody else has seen or tried them to be able to form an
opinion.
For more info, I would just follow the various cycling sites like
www.cyclingnews.com
In fact, here's a few write ups:
Shimano:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2007/features/dauphine_libere_207
Campy photos:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/tech/index.php?id=/photos/2007/tech/features/tour_tech_407/gallery-tour_tech_407
To keep abreast of all things Campy, check out the "rumors" page at
Campy Only:
http://www.campyonly.com/rumors.html
Pez has a nice write up too:
http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=4772
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