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Main
Date: 26 Jun 2007 11:30:43
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Fantasy race bike
|
Hi All,
For the purposes of avoiding work to be done, I have been daydreaming
about my fantasy road bike that I am going to buy when I find an extra
$10,000 lying around.
Here's the requirements:
under 7kg
able to withstand my 98kg (someday 95?)
comfortable
maintainable by me (ie no bonded kevlar spokes or similar craziness)
deep section clincher wheels (despite weight penalty) due to potential
for multiple flats and need for aero.
Here's what I've come up with:
Pinarello Paris carbon frameset (I have a alu Pinarello and I like the
geometry and handling, but not the weight) 59.5cm
Shimano Dura Ace drivetrain (I want 177.5 or 180 cranks so this limits
my options for lighter cranks) because I like the brifters' shape.
Wipperman stainless chain cuz I ride in the rain and live by the sea
Zero Gravity Ti brakes
Deda Zero100 stem
Deda Newton strada bars
San Marco Regal Ti saddle
Time RXS Ti pedals
(also Rocket 7 shoes. Light shoes don't seem to come in size 50 from
anyplace else)
Zipp 404 clincher wheels
Vittoria Pave tires
This comes to about 6.9kg (a shade over 15lbs)
Any suggestions for alternatives? In particular the wheels might be
improved. Clincher deep section, though.
Joseph
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Date: 30 Jun 2007 01:51:29
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Fantasy race bike
|
On Jun 30, 9:33 am, Steve knight <ste...@knight-toolworks.com > wrote:
> how much faster do you think you will go?
> want aero get a light recumbent with a fairing.
I don't doubt that riding by myself I could go much faster on a racing
recumbent and I have also daydreamed about getting one and showing up
with it at the local club time trials and smoking everyone, but this
particular daydreaming episode is in the context of me having a chance
to be there for the sprint at the end of a mass start road race.
Joseph
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 20:25:13
From:
Subject: Re: Fantasy race bike
|
On Jun 26, 7:44 pm, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org >
wrote:
> Titanium, because it sounds cool or is used in aerospace
> or is expensive, has acquired some allure of being made
> of Magic Metallurgy Beans. In fact, titanium is less
> strong or stiff than steel at _fixed dimension_. It's
> stronger than steel _per weight_. But there are a lot
> of parts on bicycles where the dimensions are restricted
> and so you can't make the titanium parts stiffer by
> benefit of being oversized. Some notorious examples
> are BB spindles, pedal axles, and saddle rails.
Don't forget bolts. Some have also posited general QC issues with ti
bolts in addition to inherent materials/dimension issues.
Personally I have had very good luck with ti saddle rails and enjoy
the slightly enhanced bounce.
Robert
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Date: 30 Jun 2007 00:33:43
From: Steve knight
Subject: Re: Fantasy race bike
|
how much faster do you think you will go?
want aero get a light recumbent with a fairing.
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 14:52:33
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Fantasy race bike
|
On Jun 28, 2:25 pm, Qui si parla Campagnolo <p...@vecchios.com > wrote:
> On Jun 26, 5:30 am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
>
>
>
> <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi All,
>
> > For the purposes of avoiding work to be done, I have been daydreaming
> > about my fantasy road bike that I am going to buy when I find an extra
> > $10,000 lying around.
>
> > Here's the requirements:
>
> > under 7kg
> > able to withstand my 98kg (someday 95?)
> > comfortable
> > maintainable by me (ie no bonded kevlar spokes or similar craziness)
> > deep section clincher wheels (despite weight penalty) due to potential
> > for multiple flats and need for aero.
>
> > Here's what I've come up with:
>
> > Pinarello Paris carbon frameset (I have a alu Pinarello and I like the
> > geometry and handling, but not the weight) 59.5cm
> > Shimano Dura Ace drivetrain (I want 177.5 or 180 cranks so this limits
> > my options for lighter cranks) because I like the brifters' shape.
> > Wipperman stainless chain cuz I ride in the rain and live by the sea
> > Zero Gravity Ti brakes
> > Deda Zero100 stem
> > Deda Newton strada bars
> > San Marco Regal Ti saddle
> > Time RXS Ti pedals
> > (also Rocket 7 shoes. Light shoes don't seem to come in size 50 from
> > anyplace else)
> > Zipp 404 clincher wheels
> > Vittoria Pave tires
>
> > This comes to about 6.9kg (a shade over 15lbs)
>
> > Any suggestions for alternatives? In particular the wheels might be
> > improved. Clincher deep section, though.
>
> > Joseph
>
> FIRST, lose those 3 kg, then get a Merckx MXLeader, with friction
> shifters and the total package will be the same and you will have a
> frame/bike that will last forever, climb/decend like a rocket, never
> need a RDer adjust and will look cool as well....................
My '86 C-Record Tommasini Super Prestige is a shade lighter than my
'06 Ultegra Pinarello Galileo so maybe you've got a point there...
Joseph
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 12:25:29
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Fantasy race bike
|
On Jun 26, 5:30 am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> For the purposes of avoiding work to be done, I have been daydreaming
> about my fantasy road bike that I am going to buy when I find an extra
> $10,000 lying around.
>
> Here's the requirements:
>
> under 7kg
> able to withstand my 98kg (someday 95?)
> comfortable
> maintainable by me (ie no bonded kevlar spokes or similar craziness)
> deep section clincher wheels (despite weight penalty) due to potential
> for multiple flats and need for aero.
>
> Here's what I've come up with:
>
> Pinarello Paris carbon frameset (I have a alu Pinarello and I like the
> geometry and handling, but not the weight) 59.5cm
> Shimano Dura Ace drivetrain (I want 177.5 or 180 cranks so this limits
> my options for lighter cranks) because I like the brifters' shape.
> Wipperman stainless chain cuz I ride in the rain and live by the sea
> Zero Gravity Ti brakes
> Deda Zero100 stem
> Deda Newton strada bars
> San Marco Regal Ti saddle
> Time RXS Ti pedals
> (also Rocket 7 shoes. Light shoes don't seem to come in size 50 from
> anyplace else)
> Zipp 404 clincher wheels
> Vittoria Pave tires
>
> This comes to about 6.9kg (a shade over 15lbs)
>
> Any suggestions for alternatives? In particular the wheels might be
> improved. Clincher deep section, though.
>
> Joseph
FIRST, lose those 3 kg, then get a Merckx MXLeader, with friction
shifters and the total package will be the same and you will have a
frame/bike that will last forever, climb/decend like a rocket, never
need a RDer adjust and will look cool as well....................
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 12:41:20
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Fantasy race bike
|
On Jun 27, 12:23 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetrem...@jt10000.com >
wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:39:09 -0700, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net>
> wrote:
>
> >In article
> ><3lg383t2ksoa2ddc53010257f8kccfu...@4ax.com>,
> > John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetrem...@jt10000.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:24:11 -0500, John Thompson
> >> <j...@vector.os2.dhs.org> wrote:
>
> >> >For that kind of money, I'd find an established custom builder for the
> >> >frame.
>
> >> Why?
>
> >A frame builder can look at Joseph's bicycles, talk
> >with Joseph, and fine tune the frame.
>
> It seems to me that so many great frames exist stock that most people
> can easily find a frame that works perfectly for them.
Exactly. And I'm one of them. My current frame is perfect, and my only
complaint comes in the context of this thread: It's not crazy light.
The Paris carbon weighs in at about 950g. If I got a custom frame I'd
just have them copy the geometry from the Pinarello. I haven't
checked, but how many custom builders could build me a 950g frame that
was gauranteed to stand up to my weight?
Joseph
>
> What is "fine tuning" a frame?
>
> --
> JT
> ****************************
> Remove "remove" to reply
> Visithttp://www.jt10000.com
> ****************************
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 04:51:44
From: Johnny Sunset
Subject: Re: Fantasy race bike
|
On Jun 27, 5:23 am, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:39:09 -0700, Michael Press wrote:
>
> >A frame builder can look at Joseph's bicycles, talk
> >with Joseph, and fine tune the frame.
>
> It seems to me that so many great frames exist stock that most people
> can easily find a frame that works perfectly for them.
>
> What is "fine tuning" a frame?
Adding damping at the appropriate places to produce the desired
acoustic response when going over bumps?
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 01:44:04
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Fantasy race bike
|
On Jun 26, 10:31 am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jun 26, 2:03 pm, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr> wrote:
>
> > One trade-off you need to make, to stick with your configuration : either
> > have normal saddle rails and pedal axles, or drop a full 25kg. If you do
> > the latter, you may find even your old bike goes faster.
>
> I thought Ti stuff would be stronger too?
Titanium, because it sounds cool or is used in aerospace
or is expensive, has acquired some allure of being made
of Magic Metallurgy Beans. In fact, titanium is less
strong or stiff than steel at _fixed dimension_. It's
stronger than steel _per weight_. But there are a lot
of parts on bicycles where the dimensions are restricted
and so you can't make the titanium parts stiffer by
benefit of being oversized. Some notorious examples
are BB spindles, pedal axles, and saddle rails.
There's a snappy explanation of why Ti spindles are scary at
http://www.bebop.com/old%20web%20text/pages/appliedmata101.html
or www.bebop.com > bebop university > metallurgy 101.
Frame tubes are an example where you _can_ make the
material oversized. This is why aluminum frames are
acceptable but nobody sane would ever use aluminum
pedal spindles. Also, frame cracks don't usually
put you on the ground jaw first.
Ben
Sometimes, steel really is real
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 20:24:11
From: John Thompson
Subject: Re: Fantasy race bike
|
On 2007-06-26, joseph.santaniello@gmail.com <joseph.santaniello@gmail.com > wrote:
> For the purposes of avoiding work to be done, I have been daydreaming
> about my fantasy road bike that I am going to buy when I find an extra
> $10,000 lying around.
> Here's what I've come up with:
>
> Pinarello Paris carbon frameset (I have a alu Pinarello and I like the
> geometry and handling, but not the weight) 59.5cm
For that kind of money, I'd find an established custom builder for the
frame.
--
John (john@os2.dhs.org)
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 21:51:41
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Fantasy race bike
|
On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:24:11 -0500, John Thompson
<john@vector.os2.dhs.org > wrote:
>For that kind of money, I'd find an established custom builder for the
>frame.
Why?
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
|
| | | |
Date: 26 Jun 2007 22:39:09
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Fantasy race bike
|
In article
<3lg383t2ksoa2ddc53010257f8kccfunm5@4ax.com >,
John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com >
wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:24:11 -0500, John Thompson
> <john@vector.os2.dhs.org> wrote:
>
> >For that kind of money, I'd find an established custom builder for the
> >frame.
>
> Why?
A frame builder can look at Joseph's bicycles, talk
with Joseph, and fine tune the frame.
--
Michael Press
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 06:23:47
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Fantasy race bike
|
On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:39:09 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net >
wrote:
>In article
><3lg383t2ksoa2ddc53010257f8kccfunm5@4ax.com>,
> John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:24:11 -0500, John Thompson
>> <john@vector.os2.dhs.org> wrote:
>>
>> >For that kind of money, I'd find an established custom builder for the
>> >frame.
>>
>> Why?
>
>A frame builder can look at Joseph's bicycles, talk
>with Joseph, and fine tune the frame.
It seems to me that so many great frames exist stock that most people
can easily find a frame that works perfectly for them.
What is "fine tuning" a frame?
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
|
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 15:14:56
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Fantasy race bike
|
In article
<pje483do0ouv6mlq4crj53l8sr7fre40tp@4ax.com >,
John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com >
wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:39:09 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net>
> wrote:
>
> >In article
> ><3lg383t2ksoa2ddc53010257f8kccfunm5@4ax.com>,
> > John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:24:11 -0500, John Thompson
> >> <john@vector.os2.dhs.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> >For that kind of money, I'd find an established custom builder for the
> >> >frame.
> >>
> >> Why?
> >
> >A frame builder can look at Joseph's bicycles, talk
> >with Joseph, and fine tune the frame.
>
> It seems to me that so many great frames exist stock that most people
> can easily find a frame that works perfectly for them.
>
> What is "fine tuning" a frame?
Do you think what I said is plausible? If not skip the
rest, and move on to the next article. I rode one of my
bicycles into the shop of a long established frame
builder. We were talking, and I solicited his comments.
He said that for me he would have built the fork blades
much thinner in the curves at the ends.
--
Michael Press
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 18:51:39
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Fantasy race bike
|
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:14:56 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net >
wrote:
>In article
><pje483do0ouv6mlq4crj53l8sr7fre40tp@4ax.com>,
> John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:39:09 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In article
>> ><3lg383t2ksoa2ddc53010257f8kccfunm5@4ax.com>,
>> > John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:24:11 -0500, John Thompson
>> >> <john@vector.os2.dhs.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >For that kind of money, I'd find an established custom builder for the
>> >> >frame.
>> >>
>> >> Why?
>> >
>> >A frame builder can look at Joseph's bicycles, talk
>> >with Joseph, and fine tune the frame.
>>
>> It seems to me that so many great frames exist stock that most people
>> can easily find a frame that works perfectly for them.
>>
>> What is "fine tuning" a frame?
>
>Do you think what I said is plausible? If not skip the
>rest, and move on to the next article. I rode one of my
>bicycles into the shop of a long established frame
>builder. We were talking, and I solicited his comments.
>He said that for me he would have built the fork blades
>much thinner in the curves at the ends.
Fine tuing a frame doesn't sound plausible to me at a first take, but
I don't actually know what it means so I have to ask.
What does it mean?
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 27 Jun 2007 17:19:57
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Fantasy race bike
|
In article
<ieq583pn9dkvtp4lhe7dkki2ql6ed460cl@4ax.com >,
John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com >
wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:14:56 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net>
> wrote:
>
> >In article
> ><pje483do0ouv6mlq4crj53l8sr7fre40tp@4ax.com>,
> > John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:39:09 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article
> >> ><3lg383t2ksoa2ddc53010257f8kccfunm5@4ax.com>,
> >> > John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:24:11 -0500, John Thompson
> >> >> <john@vector.os2.dhs.org> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >For that kind of money, I'd find an established custom builder for the
> >> >> >frame.
> >> >>
> >> >> Why?
> >> >
> >> >A frame builder can look at Joseph's bicycles, talk
> >> >with Joseph, and fine tune the frame.
> >>
> >> It seems to me that so many great frames exist stock that most people
> >> can easily find a frame that works perfectly for them.
> >>
> >> What is "fine tuning" a frame?
> >
> >Do you think what I said is plausible? If not skip the
> >rest, and move on to the next article. I rode one of my
> >bicycles into the shop of a long established frame
> >builder. We were talking, and I solicited his comments.
> >He said that for me he would have built the fork blades
> >much thinner in the curves at the ends.
>
> Fine tuing a frame doesn't sound plausible to me at a first take, but
> I don't actually know what it means so I have to ask.
>
> What does it mean?
I gave an example.
--
Michael Press
|
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 20:44:51
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Fantasy race bike
|
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:19:57 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net >
wrote:
>In article
><ieq583pn9dkvtp4lhe7dkki2ql6ed460cl@4ax.com>,
> John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:14:56 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In article
>> ><pje483do0ouv6mlq4crj53l8sr7fre40tp@4ax.com>,
>> > John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:39:09 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >In article
>> >> ><3lg383t2ksoa2ddc53010257f8kccfunm5@4ax.com>,
>> >> > John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:24:11 -0500, John Thompson
>> >> >> <john@vector.os2.dhs.org> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >For that kind of money, I'd find an established custom builder for the
>> >> >> >frame.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Why?
>> >> >
>> >> >A frame builder can look at Joseph's bicycles, talk
>> >> >with Joseph, and fine tune the frame.
>> >>
>> >> It seems to me that so many great frames exist stock that most people
>> >> can easily find a frame that works perfectly for them.
>> >>
>> >> What is "fine tuning" a frame?
>> >
>> >Do you think what I said is plausible? If not skip the
>> >rest, and move on to the next article. I rode one of my
>> >bicycles into the shop of a long established frame
>> >builder. We were talking, and I solicited his comments.
>> >He said that for me he would have built the fork blades
>> >much thinner in the curves at the ends.
>>
>> Fine tuing a frame doesn't sound plausible to me at a first take, but
>> I don't actually know what it means so I have to ask.
>>
>> What does it mean?
>
>I gave an example.
What's the purpose? Weight, ride, looks? Something else?
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 27 Jun 2007 22:34:18
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Fantasy race bike
|
In article
<2316839ej52r0oqj5v02r6889n6llis0nu@4ax.com >,
John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com >
wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:19:57 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net>
> wrote:
>
> >In article
> ><ieq583pn9dkvtp4lhe7dkki2ql6ed460cl@4ax.com>,
> > John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:14:56 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article
> >> ><pje483do0ouv6mlq4crj53l8sr7fre40tp@4ax.com>,
> >> > John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:39:09 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >In article
> >> >> ><3lg383t2ksoa2ddc53010257f8kccfunm5@4ax.com>,
> >> >> > John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com>
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:24:11 -0500, John Thompson
> >> >> >> <john@vector.os2.dhs.org> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >For that kind of money, I'd find an established custom builder for the
> >> >> >> >frame.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Why?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >A frame builder can look at Joseph's bicycles, talk
> >> >> >with Joseph, and fine tune the frame.
> >> >>
> >> >> It seems to me that so many great frames exist stock that most people
> >> >> can easily find a frame that works perfectly for them.
> >> >>
> >> >> What is "fine tuning" a frame?
> >> >
> >> >Do you think what I said is plausible? If not skip the
> >> >rest, and move on to the next article. I rode one of my
> >> >bicycles into the shop of a long established frame
> >> >builder. We were talking, and I solicited his comments.
> >> >He said that for me he would have built the fork blades
> >> >much thinner in the curves at the ends.
> >>
> >> Fine tuing a frame doesn't sound plausible to me at a first take, but
> >> I don't actually know what it means so I have to ask.
> >>
> >> What does it mean?
> >
> >I gave an example.
>
> What's the purpose? Weight, ride, looks? Something else?
My weight compared to the flex in the fork. A bit of
flex in the ends of the fork blades absorbs a
noticeable amount of road shock without compromising
handling. Good to have for riding outside of racing.
--
Michael Press
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 28 Jun 2007 06:21:38
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Fantasy race bike
|
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 22:34:18 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net >
wrote:
>In article
><2316839ej52r0oqj5v02r6889n6llis0nu@4ax.com>,
> John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:19:57 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In article
>> ><ieq583pn9dkvtp4lhe7dkki2ql6ed460cl@4ax.com>,
>> > John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:14:56 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >In article
>> >> ><pje483do0ouv6mlq4crj53l8sr7fre40tp@4ax.com>,
>> >> > John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:39:09 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >In article
>> >> >> ><3lg383t2ksoa2ddc53010257f8kccfunm5@4ax.com>,
>> >> >> > John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com>
>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:24:11 -0500, John Thompson
>> >> >> >> <john@vector.os2.dhs.org> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >For that kind of money, I'd find an established custom builder for the
>> >> >> >> >frame.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Why?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >A frame builder can look at Joseph's bicycles, talk
>> >> >> >with Joseph, and fine tune the frame.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It seems to me that so many great frames exist stock that most people
>> >> >> can easily find a frame that works perfectly for them.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> What is "fine tuning" a frame?
>> >> >
>> >> >Do you think what I said is plausible? If not skip the
>> >> >rest, and move on to the next article. I rode one of my
>> >> >bicycles into the shop of a long established frame
>> >> >builder. We were talking, and I solicited his comments.
>> >> >He said that for me he would have built the fork blades
>> >> >much thinner in the curves at the ends.
>> >>
>> >> Fine tuing a frame doesn't sound plausible to me at a first take, but
>> >> I don't actually know what it means so I have to ask.
>> >>
>> >> What does it mean?
>> >
>> >I gave an example.
>>
>> What's the purpose? Weight, ride, looks? Something else?
>
>My weight compared to the flex in the fork. A bit of
>flex in the ends of the fork blades absorbs a
>noticeable amount of road shock without compromising
>handling. Good to have for riding outside of racing.
Are their custom carbon fiber forks available that can be "tuned" in
this way?
Or are you giving advice unrelated to the OP's question of "fantasy
race bike"?
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 22:56:31
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Fantasy race bike
|
In article
<kr278359i0bfl7eqphru6c9p2rnbssp4co@4ax.com >,
John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com >
wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 22:34:18 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net>
> wrote:
>
> >In article
> ><2316839ej52r0oqj5v02r6889n6llis0nu@4ax.com>,
> > John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:19:57 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article
> >> ><ieq583pn9dkvtp4lhe7dkki2ql6ed460cl@4ax.com>,
> >> > John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:14:56 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >In article
> >> >> ><pje483do0ouv6mlq4crj53l8sr7fre40tp@4ax.com>,
> >> >> > John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com>
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:39:09 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >In article
> >> >> >> ><3lg383t2ksoa2ddc53010257f8kccfunm5@4ax.com>,
> >> >> >> > John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com>
> >> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:24:11 -0500, John Thompson
> >> >> >> >> <john@vector.os2.dhs.org> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >For that kind of money, I'd find an established custom builder for the
> >> >> >> >> >frame.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Why?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >A frame builder can look at Joseph's bicycles, talk
> >> >> >> >with Joseph, and fine tune the frame.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> It seems to me that so many great frames exist stock that most people
> >> >> >> can easily find a frame that works perfectly for them.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> What is "fine tuning" a frame?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Do you think what I said is plausible? If not skip the
> >> >> >rest, and move on to the next article. I rode one of my
> >> >> >bicycles into the shop of a long established frame
> >> >> >builder. We were talking, and I solicited his comments.
> >> >> >He said that for me he would have built the fork blades
> >> >> >much thinner in the curves at the ends.
> >> >>
> >> >> Fine tuing a frame doesn't sound plausible to me at a first take, but
> >> >> I don't actually know what it means so I have to ask.
> >> >>
> >> >> What does it mean?
> >> >
> >> >I gave an example.
> >>
> >> What's the purpose? Weight, ride, looks? Something else?
> >
> >My weight compared to the flex in the fork. A bit of
> >flex in the ends of the fork blades absorbs a
> >noticeable amount of road shock without compromising
> >handling. Good to have for riding outside of racing.
>
> Are their custom carbon fiber forks available that can be "tuned" in
> this way?
>
> Or are you giving advice unrelated to the OP's question of "fantasy
> race bike"?
John Thompson suggested to JS that JS consult a frame
builder. I gave one reason for the suggestion. By
your request I supplied one detail that a master
builder knows among all the other bits a master builder
knows.
You are not a tyro at bicycles. Why are you acting as
one, pretending you know nothing of the complications
arising when one fits a bicycle to himself and himself
to a bicycle? It is beginning to look like you are
baiting me, hoping for a thoughtless and emotional
response.
--
Michael Press
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 01:31:02
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Fantasy race bike
|
In article <1182857443.040928.236840@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com >,
"joseph.santaniello@gmail.com" <joseph.santaniello@gmail.com > wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> For the purposes of avoiding work to be done, I have been daydreaming
> about my fantasy road bike that I am going to buy when I find an extra
> $10,000 lying around.
>
> Here's the requirements:
>
> under 7kg
> able to withstand my 98kg (someday 95?)
> comfortable
> maintainable by me (ie no bonded kevlar spokes or similar craziness)
> deep section clincher wheels (despite weight penalty) due to potential
> for multiple flats and need for aero.
>
> Here's what I've come up with:
>
> Pinarello Paris carbon frameset (I have a alu Pinarello and I like the
> geometry and handling, but not the weight) 59.5cm
> Shimano Dura Ace drivetrain (I want 177.5 or 180 cranks so this limits
> my options for lighter cranks) because I like the brifters' shape.
> Wipperman stainless chain cuz I ride in the rain and live by the sea
> Zero Gravity Ti brakes
> Deda Zero100 stem
> Deda Newton strada bars
> San Marco Regal Ti saddle
> Time RXS Ti pedals
> (also Rocket 7 shoes. Light shoes don't seem to come in size 50 from
> anyplace else)
> Zipp 404 clincher wheels
> Vittoria Pave tires
>
> This comes to about 6.9kg (a shade over 15lbs)
>
> Any suggestions for alternatives? In particular the wheels might be
> improved. Clincher deep section, though.
Huh. I would think that even with that rather light weight budget, most
of the ProTour bikes would work, or would work with minimal fiddling.
There's not really a lot to choose among them: do you like the Scott
CR1, Cervelo Soloist or R3 Carbons, or the funky new Trek 6.9 with the
two-size fork and press-in bearings? Any of them can be built to 7 kg
with a fairly normal parts mix.
Here's an Aluminum Soloist (I'm pretty sure it's Al going by the
slightly less faired-in tube shaping) with no especially goofy parts
(32/36 spoke wheels!) and Campy shifters that comes in below 6900g:
http://www.light-bikes.com/bikegallery/BikeListing.asp?id=26
It is a 51 cm frame, though.
As you can see, the absurdolight bikes really get going around the
13-pound mark, when they start specifying aluminum cassette blocks to
drop another 50g versus the lightest Shimano Dura-Ace cassettes.
http://www.light-bikes.com/BikeGallery/BikeSelect.asp?catid=3
Here's an almost-boring Litespeed Ghisallo in size ML (compact geometry,
but it looks like it would fit someone near to 6 feet) that sports no
parts more exotic than Dura-Ace, excepting only a dysfunctional-looking
7g water bottle cage.
It's a little less than 6.9 kg.
Note that some of these bike weights can be a tad suspect. Often the
part weights are listed individually, but the more honest builders will
describe whether the assembled bike was weighed as well, thus accounting
for the odd grams here and there that crop up, either due to lubricants,
parts not at mfr-spec weight, or forgotten odds and sods like stem nuts
and bar ends.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 17:31:55
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Fantasy race bike
|
On Jun 26, 2:03 pm, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr > wrote:
> Dans le message denews:1182857443.040928.236840@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.=
com,
> joseph.santanie...@gmail.com <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> a r=E9fl=E9ch=
i, et
> puis a d=E9clar=E9 :
>
>
>
> > Hi All,
>
> > For the purposes of avoiding work to be done, I have been daydreaming
> > about my fantasy road bike that I am going to buy when I find an extra
> > $10,000 lying around.
>
> > Here's the requirements:
>
> > under 7kg
> > able to withstand my 98kg (someday 95?)
> > comfortable
> > maintainable by me (ie no bonded kevlar spokes or similar craziness)
> > deep section clincher wheels (despite weight penalty) due to potential
> > for multiple flats and need for aero.
>
> > Here's what I've come up with:
>
> > Pinarello Paris carbon frameset (I have a alu Pinarello and I like the
> > geometry and handling, but not the weight) 59.5cm
> > Shimano Dura Ace drivetrain (I want 177.5 or 180 cranks so this limits
> > my options for lighter cranks) because I like the brifters' shape.
> > Wipperman stainless chain cuz I ride in the rain and live by the sea
> > Zero Gravity Ti brakes
> > Deda Zero100 stem
> > Deda Newton strada bars
> > San Marco Regal Ti saddle
> > Time RXS Ti pedals
> > (also Rocket 7 shoes. Light shoes don't seem to come in size 50 from
> > anyplace else)
> > Zipp 404 clincher wheels
> > Vittoria Pave tires
>
> > This comes to about 6.9kg (a shade over 15lbs)
>
> > Any suggestions for alternatives?
>
> You need to visit your doctor. This stuff usually starts around November
> and lasts until the frozen roads thaw a bit. And why limit it to 10 000 =
???
> Go for the big ticket items, please.
A doctor's visit may be in order, but to my defense the weather has
been rather November-like today. 10,000 is a nice round number the
sort that spam mails promise, an besides I only need to find this
10,000 subsidy. The final budget with my honest contribution could be
much higher. But what the Hell, let's up the ante. The frame of choice
is now a Pinarello Dogma FPX custom geometry and paint just to burn
off some of the budget. To make up for the higher weight of the Dogma
frame, the wheels will need to be Lew Racing VT-1's. At $6,000 per set
those ought to contribute nicely to the new budget. And let's go with
Record over Dura Ace because it costs more if nothing else. With these
minor changes even keeping my San Marco Regal the bike comes in under
5=2E8kg and closer to $15,000. That's better, right?
> One trade-off you need to make, to stick with your configuration : either
> have normal saddle rails and pedal axles, or drop a full 25kg. If you do
> the latter, you may find even your old bike goes faster.
I thought Ti stuff would be stronger too?
Joseph
|
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 22:52:17
From: Michael Warner
Subject: Re: Fantasy race bike
|
On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:30:43 -0000, joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:
> under 7kg
> able to withstand my 98kg (someday 95?)
Have you budgeted for a support vehicle to follow you around
and scrape you off the road (or at least your seatpost) whenever
you hit a pothole?
--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw
|
| |
Date: 26 Jun 2007 14:03:33
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Fantasy race bike
|
Dans le message de
news:1182857443.040928.236840@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com,
joseph.santaniello@gmail.com <joseph.santaniello@gmail.com > a réfléchi, et
puis a déclaré :
> Hi All,
>
> For the purposes of avoiding work to be done, I have been daydreaming
> about my fantasy road bike that I am going to buy when I find an extra
> $10,000 lying around.
>
> Here's the requirements:
>
> under 7kg
> able to withstand my 98kg (someday 95?)
> comfortable
> maintainable by me (ie no bonded kevlar spokes or similar craziness)
> deep section clincher wheels (despite weight penalty) due to potential
> for multiple flats and need for aero.
>
> Here's what I've come up with:
>
> Pinarello Paris carbon frameset (I have a alu Pinarello and I like the
> geometry and handling, but not the weight) 59.5cm
> Shimano Dura Ace drivetrain (I want 177.5 or 180 cranks so this limits
> my options for lighter cranks) because I like the brifters' shape.
> Wipperman stainless chain cuz I ride in the rain and live by the sea
> Zero Gravity Ti brakes
> Deda Zero100 stem
> Deda Newton strada bars
> San Marco Regal Ti saddle
> Time RXS Ti pedals
> (also Rocket 7 shoes. Light shoes don't seem to come in size 50 from
> anyplace else)
> Zipp 404 clincher wheels
> Vittoria Pave tires
>
> This comes to about 6.9kg (a shade over 15lbs)
>
> Any suggestions for alternatives?
You need to visit your doctor. This stuff usually starts around November
and lasts until the frozen roads thaw a bit. And why limit it to 10 000 ???
Go for the big ticket items, please.
One trade-off you need to make, to stick with your configuration : either
have normal saddle rails and pedal axles, or drop a full 25kg. If you do
the latter, you may find even your old bike goes faster.
--
Sandy
--
C'est le contraire du vélo, la bicyclette.
Une silhouette profilée mauve fluo dévale
à soixante-dix à l'heure : c'est du vélo.
Deux lycéennes côte à côte traversent
un pont à Bruges : c'est de la bicyclette.
-Delerm, P.
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