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Date: 08 Sep 2007 15:44:39
From: Robert
Subject: Fixies - finding gear combo giving right tension on vertical dropout
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Hi,
I am about to convert one of my road bikes to fixed-wheel. Frame (an
aluminium Colnago) has vertical dropouts.
Nonetheless, I believe that I will be able to get satisfactory chain
tension provided that I find the right chainring - back cog combination.
I have all equipment required but I have not yet bought chainring and
back cog. Before I do this, I want to ask those of you having made the
conversion, if someone somewhere has drawn up a chart, for each of the
popular gear combinations, that says what distances, between BB centre,
and back axle centre, would be possible using the given combination
("distances", since the chain length can of course be altered).
As an example, I have 403 mm from BB centre to back axle centre. I
believe that I can alter the distance +/- 3 mm by shifting the axle.
Suppose I wanted an 81 inch gear on this frame. The chart that I hope
exists, may tell me that e.g. 45/15 does not work but that 48/16 does.
Of course I could go out and buy lots of chainrings and lots of cogs and
test all combinations for the desired ratios, to see which of these
gives the right chain tension but I would prefer to buy one chairing and
max 3 cogs.
BTW my preferred ratio would be around 75 in (e.g. 48/17).
I'm aware that I can calculate the resulting distance for each
combination, adding appropriate pi * r for cogs and rings, but honestly
I'd prefer the chart if it exists . . .
Cheers, Robert
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Date: 09 Sep 2007 21:17:05
From: Sheldon Brown
Subject: Re: Fixies - finding gear combo giving right tension on vertical dropout frame
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Robert wrote:
> > The ENO hub sounds like the best way to go, given the adjustment
> > possibilities, even if I'm likely to have to sacrifice back brake due to
> > its use.
David L. Johnson replied:
> If you have yet to build the wheel, then, yes, it could well be the best
> solution. But is it cheaper than a frame with horizontal dropouts?
Actually, that question isn't quite to the point, 'cause if you have
horizontal dropouts (or, heaven forbid, old-fashioned rear-opening
forkends) installed you _still_ need to buy a hub.
The White Industries hub is a very high quality track hub, close to
Phil Wood level, so more to the point is wether the price _difference_
between whatever hub you would otherwise buy is more expensive than
the frame modification.
Note, getting frame parts replaced wrecks the paint job. A decent
frame paint job is going to cost more than an ENO eccentric hub!
Sheldon "ENOphile" Brown
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com
Useful articles about bicycles and cycling
http://sheldonbrown.com
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Date: 08 Sep 2007 21:51:18
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: Fixies - finding gear combo giving right tension on vertical
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Robert wrote:
> I have all equipment required but I have not yet bought chainring and
> back cog. Before I do this, I want to ask those of you having made the
> conversion, if someone somewhere has drawn up a chart, for each of the
> popular gear combinations, that says what distances, between BB centre,
> and back axle centre, would be possible using the given combination
> ("distances", since the chain length can of course be altered).
I doubt that there is a chart, since it will be a very finicky fit. You
really do need to have several sprockets, and at least a couple chainrings.
For each tooth added on the rear sprocket, the distance around the back
half of the sprocket where the chain wraps is increased by 1/4", so the
wheel will move forward 1/8". Well, approximately, since the change in
the angle of the chain will also change the distance ever so slightly.
If you have a bit of play in the rear dropouts that will help. Also,
getting a half-link for the chain (only available in 1/8") will help.
>
> As an example, I have 403 mm from BB centre to back axle centre. I
> believe that I can alter the distance +/- 3 mm by shifting the axle.
3mm? That's quite a bit. Most bikes have more material in those
dropouts than is essential; you might take a grinder and widen the slots
a bit, too. I have seen some vertical dropouts that actually had a good
1/4" adjustment to them -- they were probably early vertical dropouts
(Raleigh, I think), which still had some adjustment potential designed
into them.
> Of course I could go out and buy lots of chainrings and lots of cogs and
> test all combinations for the desired ratios, to see which of these
> gives the right chain tension but I would prefer to buy one chairing and
> max 3 cogs.
>
Well, you also have to take into account chain wear, which will change
the amount of slack over time. Having more cogs/chainrings might help
in that case, too.
--
David L. Johnson
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries,
and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove
mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. [1 Corinth. 13:2]
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Date: 09 Sep 2007 19:30:27
From: Robert
Subject: Re: Fixies - finding gear combo giving right tension on vertical
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David L. Johnson wrote:
> Robert wrote:
>
>> I have all equipment required but I have not yet bought chainring and
>> back cog. Before I do this, I want to ask those of you having made the
>> conversion, if someone somewhere has drawn up a chart, for each of the
>> popular gear combinations, that says what distances, between BB
>> centre, and back axle centre, would be possible using the given
>> combination ("distances", since the chain length can of course be
>> altered).
>
>
> I doubt that there is a chart, since it will be a very finicky fit. You
> really do need to have several sprockets, and at least a couple chainrings.
>
> For each tooth added on the rear sprocket, the distance around the back
> half of the sprocket where the chain wraps is increased by 1/4", so the
> wheel will move forward 1/8". Well, approximately, since the change in
> the angle of the chain will also change the distance ever so slightly.
>
> If you have a bit of play in the rear dropouts that will help. Also,
> getting a half-link for the chain (only available in 1/8") will help.
>
>>
>> As an example, I have 403 mm from BB centre to back axle centre. I
>> believe that I can alter the distance +/- 3 mm by shifting the axle.
>
>
> 3mm? That's quite a bit. Most bikes have more material in those
> dropouts than is essential; you might take a grinder and widen the slots
> a bit, too. I have seen some vertical dropouts that actually had a good
> 1/4" adjustment to them -- they were probably early vertical dropouts
> (Raleigh, I think), which still had some adjustment potential designed
> into them.
>
>> Of course I could go out and buy lots of chainrings and lots of cogs
>> and test all combinations for the desired ratios, to see which of
>> these gives the right chain tension but I would prefer to buy one
>> chairing and max 3 cogs.
>>
> Well, you also have to take into account chain wear, which will change
> the amount of slack over time. Having more cogs/chainrings might help
> in that case, too.
>
The ENO hub sounds like the best way to go, given the adjustment
possibilities, even if I'm likely to have to sacrifice back brake due to
its use.
Of course the cleanest solution is to find a frame with horizontal
dropouts but that would be cheating of course.
Thanks for your advice and comments folks.
Cheers, Robert
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Date: 09 Sep 2007 21:21:29
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: Fixies - finding gear combo giving right tension on vertical
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Robert wrote:
> The ENO hub sounds like the best way to go, given the adjustment
> possibilities, even if I'm likely to have to sacrifice back brake due to
> its use.
If you have yet to build the wheel, then, yes, it could well be the best
solution. But is it cheaper than a frame with horizontal dropouts?
--
David L. Johnson
The lottery is a tax on those who fail to understand mathematics.
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Date: 08 Sep 2007 19:54:49
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Fixies - finding gear combo giving right tension on vertical dropout frame
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jim beam wrote:
>
[re ENO hub]
>
> it's /the/ option if you want to ride more than a few hundred miles and
> thus encounter chain wear.
$5 chains make frequent replacement pretty tolerable. Especially if
you have another use for single speed chains with minimal wear.
Chalo
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Date: 08 Sep 2007 19:49:53
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Fixies - finding gear combo giving right tension on vertical dropout frame
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Robert wrote:
>
> I am about to convert one of my road bikes to fixed-wheel. Frame (an
> aluminium Colnago) has vertical dropouts.
>
> Nonetheless, I believe that I will be able to get satisfactory chain
> tension provided that I find the right chainring - back cog combination.
Here's what you need:
http://www.eehouse.org/fixin/fixmeup.php
It really works. Chain wear will be an annoying issue, though, with
no way to take up slack.
Chalo
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Date: 08 Sep 2007 13:07:14
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Fixies - finding gear combo giving right tension on vertical
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Robert wrote:
> I am about to convert one of my road bikes to fixed-wheel. Frame (an
> aluminium Colnago) has vertical dropouts.
>
> Nonetheless, I believe that I will be able to get satisfactory chain
> tension provided that I find the right chainring - back cog combination.
>
> I have all equipment required but I have not yet bought chainring and
> back cog. Before I do this, I want to ask those of you having made the
> conversion, if someone somewhere has drawn up a chart, for each of the
> popular gear combinations, that says what distances, between BB centre,
> and back axle centre, would be possible using the given combination
> ("distances", since the chain length can of course be altered).
>
> As an example, I have 403 mm from BB centre to back axle centre. I
> believe that I can alter the distance +/- 3 mm by shifting the axle.
> Suppose I wanted an 81 inch gear on this frame. The chart that I hope
> exists, may tell me that e.g. 45/15 does not work but that 48/16 does.
>
> Of course I could go out and buy lots of chainrings and lots of cogs and
> test all combinations for the desired ratios, to see which of these
> gives the right chain tension but I would prefer to buy one chairing and
> max 3 cogs.
>
> BTW my preferred ratio would be around 75 in (e.g. 48/17).
>
> I'm aware that I can calculate the resulting distance for each
> combination, adding appropriate pi * r for cogs and rings, but honestly
> I'd prefer the chart if it exists . . .
Although riders with plenty of time and moderate expectations have done
that, I would recommend either an ENO hub, a frame with an inch of
horizontal travel or a frame end replacement on your frame.
I've never seen such a chart but as you note the idealized numbers are
obvious. A chart may not cover all the small variables- chain tension is
optimized over a smaller range that you might at first imagine.
'Sensitive' setups with verticals may require frequent new chains (cheap
at $10). Not to say you can't do that but alternates exist.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 08 Sep 2007 18:19:19
From: Zog The Undeniable
Subject: Re: Fixies - finding gear combo giving right tension on vertical
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Robert wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am about to convert one of my road bikes to fixed-wheel. Frame (an
> aluminium Colnago) has vertical dropouts.
>
> Nonetheless, I believe that I will be able to get satisfactory chain
> tension provided that I find the right chainring - back cog combination.
>
> I have all equipment required but I have not yet bought chainring and
> back cog. Before I do this, I want to ask those of you having made the
> conversion, if someone somewhere has drawn up a chart, for each of the
> popular gear combinations, that says what distances, between BB centre,
> and back axle centre, would be possible using the given combination
> ("distances", since the chain length can of course be altered).
>
> As an example, I have 403 mm from BB centre to back axle centre. I
> believe that I can alter the distance +/- 3 mm by shifting the axle.
> Suppose I wanted an 81 inch gear on this frame. The chart that I hope
> exists, may tell me that e.g. 45/15 does not work but that 48/16 does.
>
> Of course I could go out and buy lots of chainrings and lots of cogs and
> test all combinations for the desired ratios, to see which of these
> gives the right chain tension but I would prefer to buy one chairing and
> max 3 cogs.
>
> BTW my preferred ratio would be around 75 in (e.g. 48/17).
>
> I'm aware that I can calculate the resulting distance for each
> combination, adding appropriate pi * r for cogs and rings, but honestly
> I'd prefer the chart if it exists . . .
If you google "magic gear calculator" you should find at least one.
An ENO hub is another option.
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Date: 08 Sep 2007 16:05:32
From: John Thompson
Subject: Re: Fixies - finding gear combo giving right tension on vertical dropout frame
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On 2007-09-08, Zog The Undeniable <hrothgar19@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Robert wrote:
>
>> I am about to convert one of my road bikes to fixed-wheel. Frame (an
>> aluminium Colnago) has vertical dropouts.
>>
>> Nonetheless, I believe that I will be able to get satisfactory chain
>> tension provided that I find the right chainring - back cog combination.
> If you google "magic gear calculator" you should find at least one.
>
> An ENO hub is another option.
And a half-link for your chain is another.
--
John (john@os2.dhs.org)
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Date: 08 Sep 2007 10:36:52
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Fixies - finding gear combo giving right tension on vertical
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Zog The Undeniable wrote:
> Robert wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am about to convert one of my road bikes to fixed-wheel. Frame (an
>> aluminium Colnago) has vertical dropouts.
>>
>> Nonetheless, I believe that I will be able to get satisfactory chain
>> tension provided that I find the right chainring - back cog combination.
>>
>> I have all equipment required but I have not yet bought chainring and
>> back cog. Before I do this, I want to ask those of you having made the
>> conversion, if someone somewhere has drawn up a chart, for each of the
>> popular gear combinations, that says what distances, between BB
>> centre, and back axle centre, would be possible using the given
>> combination ("distances", since the chain length can of course be
>> altered).
>>
>> As an example, I have 403 mm from BB centre to back axle centre. I
>> believe that I can alter the distance +/- 3 mm by shifting the axle.
>> Suppose I wanted an 81 inch gear on this frame. The chart that I hope
>> exists, may tell me that e.g. 45/15 does not work but that 48/16 does.
>>
>> Of course I could go out and buy lots of chainrings and lots of cogs
>> and test all combinations for the desired ratios, to see which of
>> these gives the right chain tension but I would prefer to buy one
>> chairing and max 3 cogs.
>>
>> BTW my preferred ratio would be around 75 in (e.g. 48/17).
>>
>> I'm aware that I can calculate the resulting distance for each
>> combination, adding appropriate pi * r for cogs and rings, but
>> honestly I'd prefer the chart if it exists . . .
>
> If you google "magic gear calculator" you should find at least one.
>
> An ENO hub is another option.
it's /the/ option if you want to ride more than a few hundred miles and
thus encounter chain wear.
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