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Main
Date: 12 Nov 2007 18:13:54
From: vey
Subject: Flying Pigeons on ebay
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There is a fellow selling new Flying Pigeon brand bikes on ebay if
anyone is interested.
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Date: 13 Nov 2007 12:16:36
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: Flying Pigeons on ebay
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On Nov 13, 10:26 am, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> > cyclingthi...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> all i have to say is god bless Ebay it is the perfect market place
> >> (offer and demand)
> Tim McNamara wrote:
> > Nope, actually, it's not. eBay stands normal market forces on their
> > heads. Instead of the supply side competing for customers, it's the
> > demand side that's competing to buy. This eliminates the normal market
> > forces that restrain prices.
> > Imagine going to the grocery store and having to bid for a pound of
> > hamburger for dinner, with the butcher creating an artificial scarcity
> > to inflate the price. It's a little like dealing with OPEC.
> > If the real market operated like eBay, inflation would be about 200%.
>
> Think about that for a moment longer.
>
> ebay has no coercion nor time constraints, all transactions are between
> willing buyer and willing seller and maximize value to the seller.
> That's perfectly rational for unique, rare or just odd discretionary
> purchases. In the case of a high volume time sensitive commodity other
> markets dominate.
>
> I will agree that once the greater bulk of raw hamburger sales occur on
> ebay, it will indicate serious economic disruption.
Hey, there are cultures where you negotiate for everything -- which
sure prolongs the process of buying a pound of fly covered hamburger.
I never understood why, in our culture, we negotiate for some things
and not for others. You know that debit card reader at the check out
stand that indicates the amount due and then says "is this amount
O.K.?" -- I take that as an offer to negotiate: "no, that amount is
not O.K., but how about eighty percent of that?" Most of the clerks
just look at me with blank expressions. -- Jay Beattie.
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Date: 13 Nov 2007 14:21:45
From:
Subject: Re: Flying Pigeons on ebay
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Jay Beattie wrote:
> Hey, there are cultures where you negotiate for everything -- which
> sure prolongs the process of buying a pound of fly covered hamburger.
> I never understood why, in our culture, we negotiate for some things
> and not for others.
There are many items for which many people don't even realize that the
price is negotiable. Have you ever bought a major appliance at Sears?
The prices are highly negotiable, even when the item is already "on
sale" which is just about all the time. I just went through this last
Sunday, ending up with about another $68 off ($382 versus $450 sale
price) for a range that had a regular price of $530. All it took was
some hesitation, and a comment that I'd wait for a better sale, for the
salesperson to advise me to return at 5:30 p.m. when there would be a
28% off deal for "friends and family" of associates. Suddenly I'm his
friend!
Bicycle prices are negotiable at many stores, at least when they are not
on sale. At the very least you can often get them to include some
accessories for free, but you have to ask.
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Date: 13 Nov 2007 07:17:31
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Flying Pigeons on ebay
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On Nov 13, 8:27 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net > wrote:
> cyclingthi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > all i have to say is god bless Ebay it is the perfect market place
> > (offer and demand)
>
> Nope, actually, it's not. eBay stands normal market forces on their
> heads. Instead of the supply side competing for customers, it's the
> demand side that's competing to buy. This eliminates the normal market
> forces that restrain prices.
>
> Imagine going to the grocery store and having to bid for a pound of
> hamburger for dinner, with the butcher creating an artificial scarcity
> to inflate the price. It's a little like dealing with OPEC.
>
> If the real market operated like eBay, inflation would be about 200%.
The real market doesn't sell slightly used granny panties. Juss
sayin'...
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Date: 13 Nov 2007 19:09:19
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Flying Pigeons on ebay
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landotter wrote:
> On Nov 13, 8:27 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
>> If the real market operated like eBay, inflation would be about
>> 200%.
>
> The real market doesn't sell slightly used granny panties. Juss
> sayin'...
There is mercy in the world after all.
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Date: 13 Nov 2007 04:56:44
From:
Subject: Re: Flying Pigeons on ebay
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On Nov 13, 4:10 am, raam...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Nov 12, 9:56 pm, Marian <marian.rosenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 13, 7:50 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 12, 5:13 pm, vey <jun...@ericvey.com> wrote:
>
> > > > There is a fellow selling new Flying Pigeon brand bikes on ebay if
> > > > anyone is interested.
>
> > > "Full Steel top bar frame - specifically designed for bringing a Pig
> > > from the Market "
>
> > > The slightly modernized women's bike with cantis and a coaster rear
> > > brake looks pretty nice. Love the industrial matte finish--and looks
> > > like it has alloy rims. I'd be tempted if they made a guy's model.
> > > Having had a DL1, I'll *not* ride rod brakes down the hills around
> > > here. Yikes.
>
> > I'm really curious if shipping to the US costs that much or if this
> > guy is really marking them up 300% over Chinese retail.
>
> > Haven't actually seen that particular pig-leather seat new and on a
> > bike before.
>
> > -M
>
> to say flying pigeon is the same as turding bird; I prefer the later
> as it is a more accurate description.
all i have to say is god bless Ebay it is the perfect market place
(offer and demand)
carlos
www.bikingthings.com
Get Faster, Enjoy Cycling, Get Fit, Live Better.
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Date: 13 Nov 2007 08:27:50
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Flying Pigeons on ebay
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cyclingthings@gmail.com wrote:
>
> all i have to say is god bless Ebay it is the perfect market place
> (offer and demand)
Nope, actually, it's not. eBay stands normal market forces on their
heads. Instead of the supply side competing for customers, it's the
demand side that's competing to buy. This eliminates the normal market
forces that restrain prices.
Imagine going to the grocery store and having to bid for a pound of
hamburger for dinner, with the butcher creating an artificial scarcity
to inflate the price. It's a little like dealing with OPEC.
If the real market operated like eBay, inflation would be about 200%.
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Date: 14 Nov 2007 08:21:18
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Flying Pigeons on ebay
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Tim McNamara wrote:
> cyclingthings@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> all i have to say is god bless Ebay it is the perfect market place
>> (offer and demand)
>
> Nope, actually, it's not. eBay stands normal market forces on their
> heads. Instead of the supply side competing for customers, it's the
> demand side that's competing to buy. This eliminates the normal market
> forces that restrain prices.
>
> Imagine going to the grocery store and having to bid for a pound of
> hamburger for dinner, with the butcher creating an artificial scarcity
> to inflate the price. It's a little like dealing with OPEC.
>
> If the real market operated like eBay, inflation would be about 200%.
For unique or rare objects, the seller wants to locate the buyer who
places the highest value on the item. Ebay is great for that just
because of its reach. For commodities, Ebay is just another channel, and
there are usually many sellers competing with each other.
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Date: 13 Nov 2007 12:26:16
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Flying Pigeons on ebay
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> cyclingthings@gmail.com wrote:
>> all i have to say is god bless Ebay it is the perfect market place
>> (offer and demand)
Tim McNamara wrote:
> Nope, actually, it's not. eBay stands normal market forces on their
> heads. Instead of the supply side competing for customers, it's the
> demand side that's competing to buy. This eliminates the normal market
> forces that restrain prices.
> Imagine going to the grocery store and having to bid for a pound of
> hamburger for dinner, with the butcher creating an artificial scarcity
> to inflate the price. It's a little like dealing with OPEC.
> If the real market operated like eBay, inflation would be about 200%.
Think about that for a moment longer.
ebay has no coercion nor time constraints, all transactions are between
willing buyer and willing seller and maximize value to the seller.
That's perfectly rational for unique, rare or just odd discretionary
purchases. In the case of a high volume time sensitive commodity other
markets dominate.
I will agree that once the greater bulk of raw hamburger sales occur on
ebay, it will indicate serious economic disruption.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 13 Nov 2007 19:18:01
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Flying Pigeons on ebay
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A Muzi wrote:
>> cyclingthings@gmail.com wrote:
>>> all i have to say is god bless Ebay it is the perfect market
>>> place (offer and demand)
>
> Tim McNamara wrote:
>> Nope, actually, it's not. eBay stands normal market forces on
>> their heads. Instead of the supply side competing for customers,
>> it's the demand side that's competing to buy. This eliminates the
>> normal market forces that restrain prices.
>
>> Imagine going to the grocery store and having to bid for a pound of
>> hamburger for dinner, with the butcher creating an artificial
>> scarcity to inflate the price. It's a little like dealing with
>> OPEC.
>
>> If the real market operated like eBay, inflation would be about
>> 200%.
>
> Think about that for a moment longer.
I've already thought about it quite a bit, since it's such an
interesting phenomenon.
> ebay has no coercion nor time constraints,
It does, actually. Time constraints since auctions have a defined
ending time. This creates
> all transactions are between willing buyer and willing seller and
> maximize value to the seller. That's perfectly rational for unique,
> rare or just odd discretionary purchases.
Rarity changes things all by itself. Relatively little of what is sold
on eBay qualifies as "rare," however. Auctions take advantage of a
competitive environment between purchasers, which is why you routinely
see "eBayers" paying more than retail for currently available objects.
Transactions between a willing seller and a willing buyer are
negotiations; auctions are not negotiations.
> In the case of a high volume time sensitive commodity other markets
> dominate.
Not sure what you mean.
> I will agree that once the greater bulk of raw hamburger sales occur
> on ebay, it will indicate serious economic disruption.
Ptomaine!
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Date: 13 Nov 2007 01:10:35
From:
Subject: Re: Flying Pigeons on ebay
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On Nov 12, 9:56 pm, Marian <marian.rosenb...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Nov 13, 7:50 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 12, 5:13 pm, vey <jun...@ericvey.com> wrote:
>
> > > There is a fellow selling new Flying Pigeon brand bikes on ebay if
> > > anyone is interested.
>
> > "Full Steel top bar frame - specifically designed for bringing a Pig
> > from the Market "
>
> > The slightly modernized women's bike with cantis and a coaster rear
> > brake looks pretty nice. Love the industrial matte finish--and looks
> > like it has alloy rims. I'd be tempted if they made a guy's model.
> > Having had a DL1, I'll *not* ride rod brakes down the hills around
> > here. Yikes.
>
> I'm really curious if shipping to the US costs that much or if this
> guy is really marking them up 300% over Chinese retail.
>
> Haven't actually seen that particular pig-leather seat new and on a
> bike before.
>
> -M
to say flying pigeon is the same as turding bird; I prefer the later
as it is a more accurate description.
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Date: 13 Nov 2007 02:56:21
From: Marian
Subject: Re: Flying Pigeons on ebay
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On Nov 13, 7:50 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Nov 12, 5:13 pm, vey <jun...@ericvey.com> wrote:
>
> > There is a fellow selling new Flying Pigeon brand bikes on ebay if
> > anyone is interested.
>
> "Full Steel top bar frame - specifically designed for bringing a Pig
> from the Market "
>
> The slightly modernized women's bike with cantis and a coaster rear
> brake looks pretty nice. Love the industrial matte finish--and looks
> like it has alloy rims. I'd be tempted if they made a guy's model.
> Having had a DL1, I'll *not* ride rod brakes down the hills around
> here. Yikes.
I'm really curious if shipping to the US costs that much or if this
guy is really marking them up 300% over Chinese retail.
Haven't actually seen that particular pig-leather seat new and on a
bike before.
-M
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Date: 13 Nov 2007 07:02:00
From:
Subject: Re: Flying Pigeons on ebay
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Marian wrote:
> I'm really curious if shipping to the US costs that much or if this
> guy is really marking them up 300% over Chinese retail.
Hey, the price he can get is the price he can charge, his cost is
immaterial. The shipping within the U.S. adds even more to the price,
nearly $100 to ship to California.
Legally he really can't even sell them as they don't meet the CPSC
requirements, but I don't think the CSPC has time to deal with this sort
of thing. Even a lot of high end bicycles sold in the U.S. probably
don't meet all the CPSC requirements, especially those with carbon forks.
"http://www.cpsc.gov/BUSINFO/regsumbicycles.pdf"
I tried to buy a Flying Pigeon or Phoenix when I first visited China in
1987. At that time they were rationed and you couldn't buy one without a
ration ticket, though lesser brands were freely available.
If Flying Pigeon was better at marketing they could sell their classic
models directly into the U.S. as a utility bicycle. With the enclosed
chain case, included lighting and rack, it's the perfect bike for around
town, trips to the grocery store, trips to school bike. Price it at $150
and they could sell a lot of them. CPSC changes shouldn't cost much,
except perhaps to the brakes as those rod brakes never seemed to work
very well.
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Date: 13 Nov 2007 11:18:35
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Flying Pigeons on ebay
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SMS 斯蒂文• 夏 wrote:
>
> Hey, the price he can get is the price he can charge, his cost is
> immaterial. The shipping within the U.S. adds even more to the price,
> nearly $100 to ship to California.
On one of the bike forums right now there's Euro peoples asking how to
mail-order US bikes--and the truth is (even /before/ the recent dollar
dive) most bike shops wouldn't bother for a single sale, because the
shipping fee to cross the Atlantic ocean is at least $300-$400.
>
> Legally he really can't even sell them as they don't meet the CPSC
> requirements, but I don't think the CSPC has time to deal with this sort
> of thing. Even a lot of high end bicycles sold in the U.S. probably
> don't meet all the CPSC requirements, especially those with carbon forks.
>
> "http://www.cpsc.gov/BUSINFO/regsumbicycles.pdf"
>
If I remember right these are only generally applied to new bicycles, as
sold by manufacturers or manufacturer-supported dealers.
~
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Date: 13 Nov 2007 09:48:54
From:
Subject: Re: Flying Pigeons on ebay
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DougC wrote:
> SMS 斯蒂文• 夏 wrote:
>>
>> Hey, the price he can get is the price he can charge, his cost is
>> immaterial. The shipping within the U.S. adds even more to the price,
>> nearly $100 to ship to California.
>
> On one of the bike forums right now there's Euro peoples asking how to
> mail-order US bikes--and the truth is (even /before/ the recent dollar
> dive) most bike shops wouldn't bother for a single sale, because the
> shipping fee to cross the Atlantic ocean is at least $300-$400.
>
>>
>> Legally he really can't even sell them as they don't meet the CPSC
>> requirements, but I don't think the CSPC has time to deal with this
>> sort of thing. Even a lot of high end bicycles sold in the U.S.
>> probably don't meet all the CPSC requirements, especially those with
>> carbon forks.
>>
>> "http://www.cpsc.gov/BUSINFO/regsumbicycles.pdf"
>>
>
> If I remember right these are only generally applied to new bicycles, as
> sold by manufacturers or manufacturer-supported dealers.
He is selling new bicycles.
It's immaterial if the dealer is "supported" by the manufacturer or not.
There is no such thing as "authorized dealers" in the U.S., any shop
can sell any product they can get, and it's up to the manufacturer to
control who can get product.
Technically the bicycles need to be brought up to CPSC standards, but
this could be as simple as throwing some reflectors into the box for the
end-user to install.
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Date: 14 Nov 2007 15:47:37
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Flying Pigeons on ebay
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SMS 斯蒂文• 夏 wrote:
>
> He is selling new bicycles.
>
> It's immaterial if the dealer is "supported" by the manufacturer or not.
> There is no such thing as "authorized dealers" in the U.S., any shop
> can sell any product they can get, and it's up to the manufacturer to
> control who can get product.
>
> Technically the bicycles need to be brought up to CPSC standards, but
> this could be as simple as throwing some reflectors into the box for the
> end-user to install.
Well,,, yes and no.
What he's selling are "like-new" bicycles.
A dealer (or retailer) is someone who is allowed to buy product from a
distributor or manufacturer, explicitly for the purpose of resale.
Basically--if the manufacturer (or distributor) says you're a dealer,
then you are. Otherwise you're a private owner, and anything you sell
can't be technically "new", because it's already had one private
owner--you.
------
The CSPC is generally not real tight on small fish anyways.
A few models of recumbents violate various CSPC rules (minimum wheel
diameters and seat heights), and continue to be sold openly new and used.
~
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Date: 12 Nov 2007 15:50:12
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Flying Pigeons on ebay
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On Nov 12, 5:13 pm, vey <jun...@ericvey.com > wrote:
> There is a fellow selling new Flying Pigeon brand bikes on ebay if
> anyone is interested.
"Full Steel top bar frame - specifically designed for bringing a Pig
from the Market "
The slightly modernized women's bike with cantis and a coaster rear
brake looks pretty nice. Love the industrial matte finish--and looks
like it has alloy rims. I'd be tempted if they made a guy's model.
Having had a DL1, I'll *not* ride rod brakes down the hills around
here. Yikes.
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Date: 12 Nov 2007 21:48:37
From: Bellsouth Ijit 2.0 - Global Warming Edition
Subject: Re: Flying Pigeons on ebay
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"landotter" <landotter@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1194911412.854294.293780@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 12, 5:13 pm, vey <jun...@ericvey.com> wrote:
>> There is a fellow selling new Flying Pigeon brand bikes on ebay if
>> anyone is interested.
>
> "Full Steel top bar frame - specifically designed for bringing a Pig
> from the Market "
>
> The slightly modernized women's bike with cantis and a coaster rear
> brake looks pretty nice. Love the industrial matte finish--and looks
> like it has alloy rims. I'd be tempted if they made a guy's model.
> Having had a DL1, I'll *not* ride rod brakes down the hills around
> here. Yikes.
>
These things have 28" wheels?!?
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