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Date: 16 May 2007 16:39:30
From: DougC
Subject: Full-Suspension road/touring bikes?.....
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Does anyplace make these?
I recall a few years back it was big news that some of the pros in the
TdF were running suspension forks. As full-suspended MTB's had already
penetrated the upper- and mid-market, I rather expected that
full-suspended road/touring bikes would do the same.
The last upright bike I owned was a full-suspension MTB with slicks and
I remember it was distinctly nicer to ride, particularly over bad roads
but also over a lot of the "not-so-bad" roads as well.
Never saw them though, anywhere.
And I haven't seen any road suspension forks advertised anywhere either.
Did the whole idea just get flushed down the toilet or something? I
suppose racers might prefer no shocks, but I'd think a lot of touring
peoples would be interested....
~
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Date: 19 May 2007 08:18:40
From: datakoll@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Full-Suspension road/touring bikes?.....
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>
> Hi Marten,
> What brand is your full suspension touring bike?
H&E DSTVB? WTH?
the panamerica is an interesting looking design, white's site always
worht a visit
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/tout-terrain.asp
http://www.tout-terrain.de/cms/front_content.php?idcat=3
and the design didn't exist 3-4 years ago
are there more? remember someone wants to steal it.
no question about speed/energy: take a dirt road rides on various dirt
surfaces with the cyclometer and compare to amacite riding.
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Date: 18 May 2007 15:12:42
From: john
Subject: Re: Full-Suspension road/touring bikes?.....
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On May 17, 8:40 am, M-gineering <ikmotgeens...@m-gineering.nl > wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
>
>
> > For touring, when the weight is lots anyway, use wider tires and maybe
> > a suspension seatpost. Remember full sus isn't for comfort but to keep
> > the tires on the ground in rough going.
>
> As one with real experience of tours on a proper suspended (road)
> touring bike I can't agree. Suspension makes a remarkable difference in
> the state of 'the engine' after a day in the saddle. Not surprisingly as
> the vibration levels of a road bike are such that if it were work H&E
> wouldn't allow you to do it for more than an hour a day ISTR.
>
> Suspension might be heavier and less efficient on climbs, but the
> benefits are that you can power through everything, not having to brake
> for cattlegrids and most railwaycrossings, and not having to watch out
> for ledges, potholes and other surprises.
> Less noise and rattles is nice too
>
> --
> /Marten
>
> info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
Hi Marten,
What brand is your full suspension touring bike?
Thanks, John
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Date: 19 May 2007 07:15:51
From: M-gineering
Subject: Re: Full-Suspension road/touring bikes?.....
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john wrote:
> On May 17, 8:40 am, M-gineering <ikmotgeens...@m-gineering.nl> wrote:
>> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> For touring, when the weight is lots anyway, use wider tires and maybe
>>> a suspension seatpost. Remember full sus isn't for comfort but to keep
>>> the tires on the ground in rough going.
>> As one with real experience of tours on a proper suspended (road)
>> touring bike I can't agree. Suspension makes a remarkable difference in
>> the state of 'the engine' after a day in the saddle. Not surprisingly as
>> the vibration levels of a road bike are such that if it were work H&E
>> wouldn't allow you to do it for more than an hour a day ISTR.
>>
>> Suspension might be heavier and less efficient on climbs, but the
>> benefits are that you can power through everything, not having to brake
>> for cattlegrids and most railwaycrossings, and not having to watch out
>> for ledges, potholes and other surprises.
>> Less noise and rattles is nice too
>>
>> --
>> /Marten
>>
>> info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
>
> Hi Marten,
> What brand is your full suspension touring bike?
> Thanks, John
>
m-gineering, what else ! ;)
--
/Marten
info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
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Date: 18 May 2007 05:29:01
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Full-Suspension road/touring bikes?.....
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On May 17, 9:57 am, DougC <dcim...@norcom2000.com > wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
> > Nobody in the TdF has ever ridden a bike with suspension, ala a front
> > shock, You are thinking of some of the bikes in ParisRoubaix..in the
> > past.
>
> Well I don't remember exactly what it was. I remember reading and seeing
> the pictures in bicycle magazines tho'.....
>
> > NO need for full suspension or even front suspension on a road
> > bike..for normal roads. Unnecessary weight and complication, would do
> > nothing to help the ride.
>
> Well there's no *need* for rubber tires, either, it's just that MOST of
> us like the advantages they provide enough to tolerate the extra weight....
>
> You could say that no velodrome bikes need suspension, because the
> surface they are used on is *always* smooth. .....But if the roads
> everywhere were perfectly smooth, /nothing/ would need
> suspension--bicycles, motorcycles or cars. Car and motorcycle companies
> spend a lot of money on suspension engineering and overall they seem to
> think it's a necessary evil.
> ~
Sure, for something that weighs 20 to 400 times more and goes 2-4
times the speed. You HAVE suspension, called arms and legs.
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Date: 17 May 2007 10:02:59
From: Just A User
Subject: Re: Full-Suspension road/touring bikes?.....
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DougC wrote:
> Does anyplace make these?
> I recall a few years back it was big news that some of the pros in the
> TdF were running suspension forks. As full-suspended MTB's had already
> penetrated the upper- and mid-market, I rather expected that
> full-suspended road/touring bikes would do the same.
>
> The last upright bike I owned was a full-suspension MTB with slicks and
> I remember it was distinctly nicer to ride, particularly over bad roads
> but also over a lot of the "not-so-bad" roads as well.
>
> Never saw them though, anywhere.
> And I haven't seen any road suspension forks advertised anywhere either.
> Did the whole idea just get flushed down the toilet or something? I
> suppose racers might prefer no shocks, but I'd think a lot of touring
> peoples would be interested....
> ~
I dont' know too many road riders who would want to haul around the
extra weight involved in making a full suspension bike. I have a hybrid
that HAD a suspension fork. I replaced it with a fixed one and found
that beside the 5 pounds of weight I saved, the bike also handles much
better. I personally don't like the feel of suspension.
Ken
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Date: 17 May 2007 05:36:08
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Full-Suspension road/touring bikes?.....
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On May 16, 3:39 pm, DougC <dcim...@norcom2000.com > wrote:
> Does anyplace make these?
> I recall a few years back it was big news that some of the pros in the
> TdF were running suspension forks.
Nobody in the TdF has ever ridden a bike with suspension, ala a front
shock, You are thinking of some of the bikes in ParisRoubaix..in the
past.
As full-suspended MTB's had already
> penetrated the upper- and mid-market, I rather expected that
> full-suspended road/touring bikes would do the same.
NO need for full suspension or even front suspension on a road
bike..for normal roads. Unnecessary weight and complication, would do
nothing to help the ride.
>
> The last upright bike I owned was a full-suspension MTB with slicks and
> I remember it was distinctly nicer to ride, particularly over bad roads
> but also over a lot of the "not-so-bad" roads as well.
>
> Never saw them though, anywhere.
> And I haven't seen any road suspension forks advertised anywhere either.
> Did the whole idea just get flushed down the toilet or something? I
> suppose racers might prefer no shocks, but I'd think a lot of touring
> peoples would be interested....
> ~
For touring, when the weight is lots anyway, use wider tires and maybe
a suspension seatpost. Remember full sus isn't for comfort but to keep
the tires on the ground in rough going.
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Date: 17 May 2007 10:57:19
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Full-Suspension road/touring bikes?.....
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Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> Nobody in the TdF has ever ridden a bike with suspension, ala a front
> shock, You are thinking of some of the bikes in ParisRoubaix..in the
> past.
>
Well I don't remember exactly what it was. I remember reading and seeing
the pictures in bicycle magazines tho'.....
> NO need for full suspension or even front suspension on a road
> bike..for normal roads. Unnecessary weight and complication, would do
> nothing to help the ride.
>
Well there's no *need* for rubber tires, either, it's just that MOST of
us like the advantages they provide enough to tolerate the extra weight....
You could say that no velodrome bikes need suspension, because the
surface they are used on is *always* smooth. .....But if the roads
everywhere were perfectly smooth, /nothing/ would need
suspension--bicycles, motorcycles or cars. Car and motorcycle companies
spend a lot of money on suspension engineering and overall they seem to
think it's a necessary evil.
~
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Date: 17 May 2007 17:40:15
From: M-gineering
Subject: Re: Full-Suspension road/touring bikes?.....
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Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
> For touring, when the weight is lots anyway, use wider tires and maybe
> a suspension seatpost. Remember full sus isn't for comfort but to keep
> the tires on the ground in rough going.
>
As one with real experience of tours on a proper suspended (road)
touring bike I can't agree. Suspension makes a remarkable difference in
the state of 'the engine' after a day in the saddle. Not surprisingly as
the vibration levels of a road bike are such that if it were work H&E
wouldn't allow you to do it for more than an hour a day ISTR.
Suspension might be heavier and less efficient on climbs, but the
benefits are that you can power through everything, not having to brake
for cattlegrids and most railwaycrossings, and not having to watch out
for ledges, potholes and other surprises.
Less noise and rattles is nice too
--
/Marten
info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
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Date: 17 May 2007 14:52:10
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: Full-Suspension road/touring bikes?.....
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"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <peter@vecchios.com > wrote in message
news:1179405368.024724.73330@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> Remember full sus isn't for comfort but to keep
> the tires on the ground in rough going.
You talking about road or off road here? Coz there's no way that's true for
off-road.
cheers,
clive
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Date: 17 May 2007 15:21:04
From: Lou Holtman
Subject: Re: Full-Suspension road/touring bikes?.....
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Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> Remember full sus isn't for comfort but to keep
> the tires on the ground in rough going.
True, but it is a nice bonus becaus it DOES add comfort.
Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu (http://www.nb.nu)
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Date: 16 May 2007 22:28:15
From: pdamm
Subject: Re: Full-Suspension road/touring bikes?.....
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These look interesting
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/tout-terrain.asp
http://www.tout-terrain.de/cms/front_content.php?idcat=3
Peter Damm
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Date: 17 May 2007 14:35:23
From: Callistus Valerius
Subject: Re: Full-Suspension road/touring bikes?.....
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" > These look interesting
>
> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/tout-terrain.asp
>
> http://www.tout-terrain.de/cms/front_content.php?idcat=3
>
> Peter Damm
---------
The silkroad looked interesting till I saw the price $4900, yikes. But I
guess if you wanted to ride down to Central America you might want something
like that. What I don't get about these types of bikes is that they always
have flat bars, am I missing something here. Wouldn't drop bars with drop
bar type shifters be more comfortable? I know when I take my MTB on a long
ride, I always wish I had the multiple positions that a drop bar gives you.
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Date: 17 May 2007 04:36:38
From: Steve Gravrock
Subject: Re: Full-Suspension road/touring bikes?.....
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On 2007-05-16, DougC <dcimper@norcom2000.com > wrote:
> Does anyplace make these?
Yes, if you're willing to spend real money and weight on the problem.
Scroll down to "Panamericana":
<http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/tout-terrain.asp >
If you won't be touring, some of the Trek Pilot models have a short-
travel rear suspension. I have no idea if they can carry a rear rack or
not, but if so the rack is unsuspended.
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Date: 16 May 2007 17:17:20
From: Paul Cassel
Subject: Re: Full-Suspension road/touring bikes?.....
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DougC wrote:
> Does anyplace make these?
> I recall a few years back it was big news that some of the pros in the
> TdF were running suspension forks.
Hmm, do you mean they were riding Softride bikes? I'm a newbie, but the
little I know says that I doubt the pros in the TdF would accept the
mass and other downsides of any suspension bikes.
-paul
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Date: 17 May 2007 00:34:51
From: Booker C. Bense
Subject: Re: Full-Suspension road/touring bikes?.....
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In article <usCdnQNoJ6p6DdbbnZ2dnUVZ_ofinZ2d@comcast.com >,
Paul Cassel <pcasselremove2@comremovecast.net > wrote:
>DougC wrote:
>> Does anyplace make these?
>> I recall a few years back it was big news that some of the pros in the
>> TdF were running suspension forks.
>
>Hmm, do you mean they were riding Softride bikes? I'm a newbie, but the
>little I know says that I doubt the pros in the TdF would accept the
>mass and other downsides of any suspension bikes.
>
It's been tried a few times for cobblestone classics like
Paris-Roubaix, but not for anything but that. I think if
poke around www.cyclingnews.com, you can find some examples.
Most of them have far less suspension than you would get
from the fat tires most touring bikes use. Especially if
you get a touring bike that uses 26" wheels.
I don't think Softride bikes are UCI legal for road racing.
_ Booker C. Bense
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Date: 16 May 2007 22:05:05
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Full-Suspension road/touring bikes?.....
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Booker C. Bense wrote:
>
> It's been tried a few times for cobblestone classics like
> Paris-Roubaix, but not for anything but that. I think if
> poke around www.cyclingnews.com, you can find some examples.
>
> Most of them have far less suspension than you would get
> from the fat tires most touring bikes use. Especially if
> you get a touring bike that uses 26" wheels.
>
> I don't think Softride bikes are UCI legal for road racing.
>
> _ Booker C. Bense
>
-Yea, what he said^......
AS I recall, back when MTB suspension forks were pushing 2.5 inches of
travel (for the top-of-the-line jobs), the TdF forks had only an inch of
travel. And like I said--they weren't selling them that I ever saw. Just
some pro teams were using them in races....
The problem with relying on tires is that a lot of touring bike still
can't take really huge tires. 35mm ain't big; 50mm+ is big.
I'd have though that a touring bike would be a natural benefit for
suspension, what with the heavy racks and all.
~
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Date: 16 May 2007 18:11:34
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Full-Suspension road/touring bikes?.....
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In article <4SK2i.39$ow3.4@newsfe12.lga >,
DougC <dcimper@norcom2000.com > wrote:
> Does anyplace make these? I recall a few years back it was big news
> that some of the pros in the TdF were running suspension forks. As
> full-suspended MTB's had already penetrated the upper- and
> mid-market, I rather expected that full-suspended road/touring bikes
> would do the same.
>
> The last upright bike I owned was a full-suspension MTB with slicks
> and I remember it was distinctly nicer to ride, particularly over bad
> roads but also over a lot of the "not-so-bad" roads as well.
>
> Never saw them though, anywhere. And I haven't seen any road
> suspension forks advertised anywhere either. Did the whole idea just
> get flushed down the toilet or something? I suppose racers might
> prefer no shocks, but I'd think a lot of touring peoples would be
> interested.... ~
AFAIK there are only a few full suspension road bikes. Riese und
Mueller of Germany make several; Alex Moulton of course; I believe Dahon
has a couple of FS bikes. Most of these have small wheels, though.
Moots made a pivotless rear suspension frame.
The cheapest and most reliable suspension is your tires, of course.
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Date: 16 May 2007 18:03:40
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Full-Suspension road/touring bikes?.....
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"DougC" > Does anyplace make these?
> I recall a few years back it was big news that some of the pros in the TdF
> were running suspension forks. As full-suspended MTB's had already
> penetrated the upper- and mid-market, I rather expected that
> full-suspended road/touring bikes would do the same.
I got the full suspension set-up on my Bike Friday. After a 2 week tour of
Ireland, I came home and took the Thud Buster off. It just seemed to drain
too much energy for the benefit I got. Without the Thud buster, it seems
that the bike is lighter, easier to pedal, and even goes faster.
Pat in TX
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Date: 16 May 2007 18:02:21
From: Michael Baldwin
Subject: Re: Full-Suspension road/touring bikes?.....
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..Hey Doug...those that jog my memory from decades past used urethane
bumpers, "soft-tails" as I recall...there was also an add-on piece that
adapted to the top tube, you would mount your saddle in it thereby
"suspending" your backside, later this manufacturer (Hislop?) also
marketed some purpose built bikes with this feature...and there's still
the Moulton with full suspension....I believe that the West Michigan
produced SLINGSHOT is considered a "softer", non-fully suspended
ride...and there's the current crop urban/city/hybrids with suspension
forks and seat posts....I myself find a bikes geometry critical to my
overall comfort...relaxed angles weigh less than suspension
pieces....again the SLINGSHOT gets high marks in certain circles...
Best Regards Always - Mike Baldwin
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Date: 16 May 2007 22:07:10
From: Bellsouth Ijit 2.0 - Hayfever Edition ®
Subject: Re: Full-Suspension road/touring bikes?.....
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"DougC" <dcimper@norcom2000.com > wrote in message
news:4SK2i.39$ow3.4@newsfe12.lga...
> Does anyplace make these?
> I recall a few years back it was big news that some of the pros in the TdF
> were running suspension forks. As full-suspended MTB's had already
> penetrated the upper- and mid-market, I rather expected that
> full-suspended road/touring bikes would do the same.
>
> The last upright bike I owned was a full-suspension MTB with slicks and I
> remember it was distinctly nicer to ride, particularly over bad roads but
> also over a lot of the "not-so-bad" roads as well.
>
> Never saw them though, anywhere.
> And I haven't seen any road suspension forks advertised anywhere either.
> Did the whole idea just get flushed down the toilet or something? I
> suppose racers might prefer no shocks, but I'd think a lot of touring
> peoples would be interested....
> ~
Improper equipment for the job. FS for touring would be a waste of pedaling
power, not to mention less reliable mechanically.
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Date: 16 May 2007 17:50:43
From: (PeteCresswell)
Subject: Re: Full-Suspension road/touring bikes?.....
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Per DougC:
>I suppose racers might prefer no shocks, but I'd think a lot of touring
>peoples would be interested....
My bread-and-butter ride is an FS MTB. I ride a hard tail
too... but much less. My preference is strongly for the FS -
even for not-so-rough routes. My utility bike is rigid.
My take is that from a touring perspective (not that I tour...
but it seems like touring places a premium on reliability), an FS
bike introduces a number of additional failure points.
The FS frame I have is top-of-the-line (being custom-built to
accommodate my odd bod) - yet I've had to walk home three times
in less than 4 years. Twice bco sheared off sus bolts and once
bco a broken rear dropout. None of those failures were
associated with particularly hard riding or rough terrain.
--
PeteCresswell
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