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Main
Date: 31 Jul 2007 08:24:45
From: Phil Cox
Subject: Hot spots, top knee pain, neck pain
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Trying to get some thoughts on relieveing the above. Here are as many
detials as I have. I would appreciate any anticdotes and thoughts on having
a more pleasurable riding experience
Hot Spots
========
Balls of feet fee like they burn after about 15-20 min into ride. Especially
when hammering up hills. Toes go numb some times. Shoes are SIDI (3 velcro
straps, no ratchet), with no special in-soles or anything. I use older
speedplay pedals.
Fix? I ahve thought about using Specialized BG Carbon shoes to help with the
Hot-Spots. Also heard maybe getting a 1/2 size larger shoe. Also heard any
over the counter shoe insert may be helpful in my current shoe. Something
about cleat position, but it seems so hard to get right.
Top Knee Pain
==========
Upper knee pain, nothing super killer, but it does bother me, especially
while climbing (in saddle). Also can happen when I am spinning alot.
Fix? I raised my seat. Trying to keep my knees straight. I hears that the BG
shoes and cleat position may help keep knees straight up and down.
Neck Pain
=======
Not sure of it is my Trap or Rhomboid. Gets real tight and burns.
Fix? Just not sure what works for this. I have tried stretching, but nothing
seems to be working
Phil
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Date: 04 Aug 2007 19:38:09
From: Donga
Subject: Re: Hot spots, top knee pain, neck pain
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On Aug 3, 1:45 pm, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> not to beat the point into the ground but consistently posts on pain
> associated with cycling derive, upon inspection, from serious lack of
> excercise or warm up in the offending areas.
> lower back pain? do you do crunches or situps? No. stretch the lower
> back? No.
> well that's why you have lower back pain.
> so the sufferer asks if a Ti frame with a kevlar belly belt equiped
> with ac/dc will....
>
> with the foot stretchs, curl toes and wiggle.
> on the tibialis tendon, lift lower leg and point foot/toes away
It's hard to beat the swiss ball. Use one for a computer chair.
Between posts, lift your feet off the ground while clenching your gut
muscles and balance. Try to do a few slow pelvic tilts/thrusts. Do
this regularly - benefits for the bike and your love life.
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Date: 04 Aug 2007 14:36:13
From: Sir Ridesalot
Subject: Re: Hot spots, top knee pain, neck pain
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On Jul 31, 11:24 am, "Phil Cox" <n...@safewalls.net > wrote:
> Trying to get some thoughts on relieveing the above. Here are as many
> detials as I have. I would appreciate any anticdotes and thoughts on having
> a more pleasurable riding experience
>
Hi there.
Comments will be made in-line. Btw is this a road bike?
> Hot Spots
> ========
> Balls of feet fee like they burn after about 15-20 min into ride. Especially
> when hammering up hills. Toes go numb some times. Shoes are SIDI (3 velcro
> straps, no ratchet), with no special in-soles or anything. I use older
> speedplay pedals.
>
> Fix? I ahve thought about using Specialized BG Carbon shoes to help with the
> Hot-Spots. Also heard maybe getting a 1/2 size larger shoe. Also heard any
> over the counter shoe insert may be helpful in my current shoe. Something
> about cleat position, but it seems so hard to get right.
>
Some thing that many overlook re feet hot spots is sock size. Are your
socks very tight? I know many people who had hot spots because their
socks were too tight or too thick for their shoes. Feet expand during
cycling so you need a sock that is not too tight at the beginning of a
ride. You also want a roomy toe-box in the shoe and a shoe width that
will accomodate the feet when they expand. You should be able to
wiggle your toes after you put the sho on. Moving a cleat even a bit,
ie 1/8th an inch, can make a remarkable difference.
> Top Knee Pain
> ==========
> Upper knee pain, nothing super killer, but it does bother me, especially
> while climbing (in saddle). Also can happen when I am spinning alot.
>
> Fix? I raised my seat. Trying to keep my knees straight. I hears that the BG
> shoes and cleat position may help keep knees straight up and down.
>
You want to have a slight fore and aft bend in the knee when the foot
is at the bottom of the pedal stroke. Too high a saddle can be just as
bad as too low a saddle.
This knee pain can be caused by the foot being held at the wrong angle
by the cleat on the pedal. Note too that often times each cleat needs
to be set differently because both feet do not angle the same way.
You also may need to adjust the saddle fore-aft position slightly.
> Neck Pain
> =======
> Not sure of it is my Trap or Rhomboid. Gets real tight and burns.
>
> Fix? Just not sure what works for this. I have tried stretching, but nothing
> seems to be working
Too long of a stem or a stem that is set too low can give you neck
pain. If the stem is too low try raising it without passing the
mininum insertion mark if it is a quill type stem. If the pain goes
away with the stem higher but you like a low position then lower it
gradually over a number of rides in order to let your neck muscles get
used to each lower position. A quarter of an inch per adjustment
downward once your neck pain goes away with a higher position should
prevent the pain from returning.
Another item of cycling that that I have noticed that often causes
neck pain is the hemet visor. If the bars are fairly low some people
get neck pain when they tilt their head back (further than they would
with out a visor) in order to see under the visor putting excessive
strain on the muscles.
>
> Phil
I hope some of this will help you.
Cjheers from Peter
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Date: 03 Aug 2007 03:45:29
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Hot spots, top knee pain, neck pain
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not to beat the point into the ground but consistently posts on pain
associated with cycling derive, upon inspection, from serious lack of
excercise or warm up in the offending areas.
lower back pain? do you do crunches or situps? No. stretch the lower
back? No.
well that's why you have lower back pain.
so the sufferer asks if a Ti frame with a kevlar belly belt equiped
with ac/dc will....
with the foot stretchs, curl toes and wiggle.
on the tibialis tendon, lift lower leg and point foot/toes away
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 16:31:08
From: Donga
Subject: Re: Hot spots, top knee pain, neck pain
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On Aug 2, 6:40 am, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com > wrote:
> I have a severe problem with bicycle fit Nazis that goes all the way back
> to the Italian CONI book on cycling. Except for stretch socks, one size
> does not fit all!
That's fair enough, but it doesn't mean you should avoid them when you
need them. It's common enough for people to be sold bikes that don't
fit them, because they wouldn't know any better. The frame might be
absolutely too small, or there might just be tweaking needed with stem
length, saddle height and fore-aft. Without help or some guidelines,
how is a person to achieve effective bike fit? Follow Artoi's advice
and get help. Even googling for guidelines and doing it yourself
systematically is better than random tweaks.
Donga
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 15:53:06
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Hot spots, top knee pain, neck pain
|
> Pat in TX
cycling is not walking, for the foot as well as everthing else. search
for foot anatomy. notice how few muscles there (ankle!) are but
remember the extensive enervation.
a foot is excercisable with the gallon jug excercise below, from the
garcilus excercise then strecth twisting top foot outward and inward.
also try calves on hips in sitting position, press down on foot then
rotate. do these excercises as isometric stretchs.
a 98 pound linebacker can't take a beating nor can a 98 pound foot.
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 17:57:15
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Hot spots, top knee pain, neck pain
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>
> cycling is not walking, for the foot as well as everthing else. search
> for foot anatomy. notice how few muscles there (ankle!) are but
> remember the extensive enervation.
True, but I don't intend to buy orthotics for cycling and different ones for
cycling. Too expensive to do that.
> a foot is excercisable with the gallon jug excercise below, from the
> garcilus excercise then strecth twisting top foot outward and inward.
> also try calves on hips in sitting position, press down on foot then
> rotate. do these excercises as isometric stretchs.
> a 98 pound linebacker can't take a beating nor can a 98 pound foot.
I certainly hope my feet don't weigh 98 pounds--each or both. They don't
look that big!
Pat in TX
>
>
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 14:22:15
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Hot spots, top knee pain, neck pain
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http://exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html
stretching results take maybe 2-3 months.
Rodale's runner website may have a stretch short course. Try
Amazon.com for an overview.
burning sensation is often "getting into shape"
Schiff glucosamine is effective here-stimulates bursal lubrication.
Try http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/Hamstrings/LVLyingLegCurl.html
Tie gallon water jug to your foot then lift only the lower leg 3-4
inches from a slightly bent knee position when lying down or sitting
holding the upper leg steady. Strengthens ligament below the knee.
Sit on floor, bend leg at knee slightly, then isometric knee joint
downward giving tension on the gracilus area seen in the view
following on the inside (medial) thigh. The gracilus locates the knee
cap, is frequently undeveloped and unbalances causing ligaments at the
knee to wander across the hard surfaces seeking a stable position,
breaking in, thus causing a burning sensation.
Work up to 3-4 presses in groups of 3.
http://www.gwc.maricopa.edu/class/bio201/muscle/leg1.htm
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Date: 01 Aug 2007 13:40:23
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: Hot spots, top knee pain, neck pain
|
"Phil Cox" <news@safewalls.net > wrote in message
news:jo-dnWmxzqnAyTLbnZ2dnUVZ_vumnZ2d@wavecable.com...
> Trying to get some thoughts on relieveing the above. Here are as many
> detials as I have. I would appreciate any anticdotes and thoughts on
having
> a more pleasurable riding experience
>
> Hot Spots
> ========
> Balls of feet fee like they burn after about 15-20 min into ride.
Especially
> when hammering up hills. Toes go numb some times. Shoes are SIDI (3
velcro
> straps, no ratchet), with no special in-soles or anything. I use older
> speedplay pedals.
>
> Fix? I ahve thought about using Specialized BG Carbon shoes to help with
the
> Hot-Spots. Also heard maybe getting a 1/2 size larger shoe. Also heard
any
> over the counter shoe insert may be helpful in my current shoe.
Something
> about cleat position, but it seems so hard to get right.
>
> Top Knee Pain
> ==========
> Upper knee pain, nothing super killer, but it does bother me, especially
> while climbing (in saddle). Also can happen when I am spinning alot.
>
> Fix? I raised my seat. Trying to keep my knees straight. I hears that
the BG
> shoes and cleat position may help keep knees straight up and down.
>
> Neck Pain
> =======
> Not sure of it is my Trap or Rhomboid. Gets real tight and burns.
>
> Fix? Just not sure what works for this. I have tried stretching, but
nothing
> seems to be working
>
> Phil
>
As other's have suggested, "Hot Foot" may be related to the fit of the
shoes or your foot position above the pedal.
I suffered from chronic knee problems for years until a friend suggested
that I needed to angle my toes outward and heels inward. That fixed most
of my knee problems.
I have a severe problem with bicycle fit Nazis that goes all the way back
to the Italian CONI book on cycling. Except for stretch socks, one size
does not fit all!
Chas.
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Date: 01 Aug 2007 07:45:37
From: Artoi
Subject: Re: Hot spots, top knee pain, neck pain
|
In article <jo-dnWmxzqnAyTLbnZ2dnUVZ_vumnZ2d@wavecable.com >,
"Phil Cox" <news@safewalls.net > wrote:
> Trying to get some thoughts on relieveing the above. Here are as many
> detials as I have. I would appreciate any anticdotes and thoughts on having
> a more pleasurable riding experience
>
> Hot Spots
> ========
> Balls of feet fee like they burn after about 15-20 min into ride. Especially
> when hammering up hills. Toes go numb some times. Shoes are SIDI (3 velcro
> straps, no ratchet), with no special in-soles or anything. I use older
> speedplay pedals.
>
> Fix? I ahve thought about using Specialized BG Carbon shoes to help with the
> Hot-Spots. Also heard maybe getting a 1/2 size larger shoe. Also heard any
> over the counter shoe insert may be helpful in my current shoe. Something
> about cleat position, but it seems so hard to get right.
>
> Top Knee Pain
> ==========
> Upper knee pain, nothing super killer, but it does bother me, especially
> while climbing (in saddle). Also can happen when I am spinning alot.
>
> Fix? I raised my seat. Trying to keep my knees straight. I hears that the BG
> shoes and cleat position may help keep knees straight up and down.
>
> Neck Pain
> =======
> Not sure of it is my Trap or Rhomboid. Gets real tight and burns.
>
> Fix? Just not sure what works for this. I have tried stretching, but nothing
> seems to be working
Given the numerous problems you've listed and the possibility that each
interact with the other, your best bet is to find a good bike fitting
specialist to have a good look at you as a whole. I wouldn't be
surprised if there's something fundamentally wrong with your bike fit or
you've gone too hard too early upon returning to cycling, or riding with
the wrong technique (eg. Excessive mashing). Trying to fix piecemeal
problems may not be the best solution for you, may even cost you more.
--
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Date: 31 Jul 2007 17:31:34
From: andresmuro@aol.com
Subject: Re: Hot spots, top knee pain, neck pain
|
On Jul 31, 8:24 am, "Phil Cox" <n...@safewalls.net > wrote:
> Trying to get some thoughts on relieveing the above. Here are as many
> detials as I have. I would appreciate any anticdotes and thoughts on havi=
ng
> a more pleasurable riding experience
>
> Hot Spots
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Balls of feet fee like they burn after about 15-20 min into ride. Especia=
lly
> when hammering up hills. Toes go numb some times. Shoes are SIDI (3 velcro
> straps, no ratchet), with no special in-soles or anything. I use older
> speedplay pedals.
>
> Fix? I ahve thought about using Specialized BG Carbon shoes to help with =
the
> Hot-Spots. Also heard maybe getting a 1/2 size larger shoe. Also heard any
> over the counter shoe insert may be helpful in my current shoe. Something
> about cleat position, but it seems so hard to get right.
Before you get any inserts, etc, move your cleats back so that the
ball of you foot will not be right on the pedal axle. Just a couple of
mm will suffice. This ought to fix it.
>
> Top Knee Pain
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Upper knee pain, nothing super killer, but it does bother me, especially
> while climbing (in saddle). Also can happen when I am spinning alot.
>
> Fix? I raised my seat. Trying to keep my knees straight. I hears that the=
BG
> shoes and cleat position may help keep knees straight up and down.
>
Knees are tough. But, if you are climbing and pushing down really
hard, it may hurt you a little. Once you move your cleats back, you won
=B4t be torquing your knees as much. Instead of focusing on just pushing
down, focus on pulling up. Many will tell you that it makes no
difference to push down or pull up, but I can definitely feel a
difference in the load on my knees when I focus on pulling up and not
just pushing.
> Neck Pain
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Not sure of it is my Trap or Rhomboid. Gets real tight and burns.
>
> Fix? Just not sure what works for this. I have tried stretching, but noth=
ing
> seems to be working
You may be too cramped up on your bike. A longer stem will help you
stretch a little on you bike. When you are on your bike, try tensing
your shoulders as much as possible. Squeeze them around your neck.
Then, let them relax and let them drop. Imagine that they drop very
low. Try to ride with your shoulders really relaxed. Every so often
tighten them again and relax them. If your stem is too short, or your
top tube or both, they will tighten your shoulders.
Andres
>
> Phil
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Date: 31 Jul 2007 16:34:40
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Hot spots, top knee pain, neck pain
|
In article
<jo-dnWmxzqnAyTLbnZ2dnUVZ_vumnZ2d@wavecable.com >,
"Phil Cox" <news@safewalls.net > wrote:
> Hot Spots
> ========
> Balls of feet fee like they burn after about 15-20 min into ride. Especially
> when hammering up hills. Toes go numb some times. Shoes are SIDI (3 velcro
> straps, no ratchet), with no special in-soles or anything. I use older
> speedplay pedals.
One poster here solved that problem with larger girth
shoes. Arteries supplying the foot follow the top of
the foot near the skin. Shoes tight across the top will
severely restrict blood flow to the foot. This
sometimes is the cause of "hot spots."
My _opinion_ is that hot spots are not caused by
insufficiently stiff shoes. Anything stiffer than a
street shoe is stiff enough to prevent hot spots, if
hot spots can be caused by a flexible shoe. I never
experienced hot spots with any shoe including clapped
out running shoes. I have always fitted my shoes for
ample room at the transverse arch.
--
Michael Press
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Date: 31 Jul 2007 19:13:40
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Hot spots, top knee pain, neck pain
|
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:24:45 -0700, "Phil Cox" <news@safewalls.net >
wrote:
>Not sure of it is my Trap or Rhomboid. Gets real tight and burns.
>
>Fix? Just not sure what works for this. I have tried stretching, but nothing
>seems to be working
It could be your position, it could be muscular weakness and it could
be you simply keeping your body too tense when riding. I dont' see
how stretching could help much -- you need to solve the cause.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
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Date: 31 Jul 2007 19:12:45
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Hot spots, top knee pain, neck pain
|
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:24:45 -0700, "Phil Cox" <news@safewalls.net >
wrote:
>Hot Spots
>========
>Balls of feet fee like they burn after about 15-20 min into ride. Especially
>when hammering up hills. Toes go numb some times. Shoes are SIDI (3 velcro
>straps, no ratchet), with no special in-soles or anything. I use older
>speedplay pedals.
>
>Fix? I ahve thought about using Specialized BG Carbon shoes to help with the
>Hot-Spots. Also heard maybe getting a 1/2 size larger shoe. Also heard any
>over the counter shoe insert may be helpful in my current shoe. Something
>about cleat position, but it seems so hard to get right.
You should try a quaility over the counter insole like Superfeet or
eSole. That will probably help with the hotspot problem and maybe the
numb toes. But the numb toes might be from your shoes being too
tight.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
|
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Date: 01 Aug 2007 11:25:04
From: Bruce Gilbert
Subject: Re: Hot spots, top knee pain, neck pain
|
"John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetremove@jt10000.com > wrote in message
news:gdgva39l75223ebll05i1oed00o0gf3ghh@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:24:45 -0700, "Phil Cox" <news@safewalls.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Hot Spots
> >========
> >Balls of feet fee like they burn after about 15-20 min into ride.
Especially
> >when hammering up hills. Toes go numb some times. Shoes are SIDI (3
velcro
> >straps, no ratchet), with no special in-soles or anything. I use older
> >speedplay pedals.
> >
> >Fix? I ahve thought about using Specialized BG Carbon shoes to help with
the
> >Hot-Spots. Also heard maybe getting a 1/2 size larger shoe. Also heard
any
> >over the counter shoe insert may be helpful in my current shoe. Something
> >about cleat position, but it seems so hard to get right.
>
> You should try a quaility over the counter insole like Superfeet or
> eSole. That will probably help with the hotspot problem and maybe the
> numb toes. But the numb toes might be from your shoes being too
> tight.
> --
> JT
> ****************************
> Remove "remove" to reply
> Visit http://www.jt10000.com
> ***************************
I have had tremendous success with the esoles. I first got them after
meeting the company at Interbike a few years ago. They have a really nice
foot analysis system. My first set worked 100% from the first day.
The real difficulty is that they will not sell without a foot analysis,
which for the consumer has to be at an event in most cases.
My second set was ordered a couple of months later after I got the first
ones. It took them three tries to match the original set. They could not get
the metatarsal ridge correct. I have a pretty bad Morton's neuroma in both
feet. Finally, we were exhibiting at the Cascade show in Seattle and esoles
was there as well. I met with them and then was able to make a side-by-side
comparison of the two pairs. The problem was corrected in one phone call.
That kind of action may not be available to folks outside the business, but
I believe esoles has a few remakes built into the price of their liners. In
fact, 3 of the folks that work for us bought a second pair each and there
were a couple of remakes as well.
In the end, the company stands behind their products and will get it right.
I have to say, the things do work well compared to other methods and
products. What I really like was that they could input the info for the
Morton's neuroma right into the setup program. That may be a problem for the
insoles that use the step-in box of foam as a mold device. On the other
hand, I had a diagnosis of my problem from an orthopaedic surgeon before
ever considering insoles of any type.
Hope this helps...
Bruce
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Date: 02 Aug 2007 10:06:34
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Hot spots, top knee pain, neck pain
|
>
> My second set was ordered a couple of months later after I got the first
> ones. It took them three tries to match the original set. They could not
> get
> the metatarsal ridge correct.
I am interested in what this metatarsal ridge looks like. I recently got new
prescription orthotics from a company called Footmaxx, and the left one had
a metatarsal ridge which ran longitudinally. That d$%^n thing first caused
my two toes to go completely numb and then a fire-like pain started. I took
them back to the doc and he said, "I don't know why they put that in
longitudinally because every single one I've given to patients has come
back." He is sending mine back to be redone, too.
I have a pretty bad Morton's neuroma in both
> feet. Finally, we were exhibiting at the Cascade show in Seattle and
> esoles
> was there as well. I met with them and then was able to make a
> side-by-side
> comparison of the two pairs. The problem was corrected in one phone call.
> That kind of action may not be available to folks outside the business,
> but
> I believe esoles has a few remakes built into the price of their liners.
> In
> fact, 3 of the folks that work for us bought a second pair each and there
> were a couple of remakes as well.
He told me I didn't have Morton's neuroma but had irritated the nerve from
using poorly fitted hiking boots.
Pat in TX
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Date: 31 Jul 2007 13:31:10
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Hot spots, top knee pain, neck pain
|
>
> Hot Spots
> ========
> Balls of feet fee like they burn after about 15-20 min into ride.
> Especially when hammering up hills. Toes go numb some times. Shoes are
> SIDI (3 velcro straps, no ratchet), with no special in-soles or anything.
> I use older speedplay pedals.
>
> Fix? I ahve thought about using Specialized BG Carbon shoes to help with
> the Hot-Spots. Also heard maybe getting a 1/2 size larger shoe. Also heard
> any over the counter shoe insert may be helpful in my current shoe.
> Something about cleat position, but it seems so hard to get right.
My experience is that this problem is helped by stiffer soles, plenty of toe
room, wiggling toes during riding, moving cleats back a bit to move toes
forward, an internal metatarsal pad to spread the bones at the base of the
toes....
> Neck Pain
> =======
> Not sure of it is my Trap or Rhomboid. Gets real tight and burns.
>
> Fix? Just not sure what works for this. I have tried stretching, but
> nothing seems to be working
>
> Phil
I used to have neck pain. I realized I was hunching my shoulders, especially
on hills. Gotta relax those muscles.
Pat in TX
>
>
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