Hydration pack (as in "Camel-Back" packs)

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Date: 08 Aug 2007 10:44:30
From: Chris M
Subject: Hydration pack (as in "Camel-Back" packs)

I have 2 packs, though I have never used them on the bike (they were
primarily used for hockey, as many rinks do not allow drinks on the
rink or even the bleachers and the packs are great for that, or even
for the goalie regardless of the rink's policies). I know that Bobby
Julich used a few prototypes years ago, during time trials. The
interesting thing to me is the location on the back located and shaped
to additionally improve aerodynamic properties. I am also interested
in any cooling benefits. I ride in very hot weather through many
months in the summer where I might spend an hour or more at 100F +.
The other day, I was already riding in 100F for over 20 minutes when I
arrived at the base of a 2.1 mile hill (only 5% but still) and the
geography was such that the micro-climate influenced by the road's
protected valley caused the heat to quickly rise up to 114F before
even reaching the first mile. Having a hydration pack with ice would
have been great. I use insulated bottles and that helps for a little
while (even they heat up at some point in the ride). When I freeze the
contents of the 2nd bottle, I do often have nice cold water for the
critical hottest sections of the rides. It is mostly psychological,
but nothing tastes better than super cold ice water while your blood
tries to keep from boiling over.

What are some ideas for carrying lots of ice-cold water, either in a
pack or any other ideas I may be overlooking?

Date: 12 Aug 2007 09:59:08
From: anth
Subject: Re: Hydration pack (as in "Camel-Back" packs)

On Thu, 2007-08-09 at 20:02 +0000, Marz wrote:
> This one's about ice cream, but is applicable to ice water...
>
> as the digestive process kicks in, body temperature
> increases as the body works to digest and absorb the nutrients in the
> ice cream, as well as to store the calories
Absorbing nutrients and storing calories doesn't apply to water.

> The body will physiologically respond to
> energy (i.e., heat) loss by increasing blood flow to the 'cool' region
> and bring the temperature back up to a physiological 'body
> temperature,'
Then the now 'cool' blood will flow back to the rest of the body.

> And I've read some stuff about how the body needs to burn even more
> calories in heating up ice water before using it which may impact on a
> athletes performance.
Could be.

> The best way that ice water is going to cool you off, is if you pour
> it over your head.
The phase change as it evaporates certainly requires a lot of energy. If
the water supply is limited though (ie you need to carry it all with
you) it might make more sense to make sure all the temperature change
from just above freezing to body temperature comes from within (ie drink
it), then get the benefit of evaporation once it is sweated back out.
Given a plentiful supply of water though it is hard to beat soaking your
head.

Date: 09 Aug 2007 20:02:06
From: Marz
Subject: Re: Hydration pack (as in "Camel-Back" packs)

On Aug 8, 12:44 pm, Chris M <chrismcreyno...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I have 2 packs, though I have never used them on the bike (they were
> primarily used for hockey, as many rinks do not allow drinks on the
> rink or even the bleachers and the packs are great for that, or even
> for the goalie regardless of the rink's policies). I know that Bobby
> Julich used a few prototypes years ago, during time trials. The
> interesting thing to me is the location on the back located and shaped
> to additionally improve aerodynamic properties. I am also interested
> in any cooling benefits. I ride in very hot weather through many
> months in the summer where I might spend an hour or more at 100F +.
> The other day, I was already riding in 100F for over 20 minutes when I
> arrived at the base of a 2.1 mile hill (only 5% but still) and the
> geography was such that the micro-climate influenced by the road's
> protected valley caused the heat to quickly rise up to 114F before
> even reaching the first mile. Having a hydration pack with ice would
> have been great. I use insulated bottles and that helps for a little
> while (even they heat up at some point in the ride). When I freeze the
> contents of the 2nd bottle, I do often have nice cold water for the
> critical hottest sections of the rides. It is mostly psychological,
> but nothing tastes better than super cold ice water while your blood
> tries to keep from boiling over.
>
> What are some ideas for carrying lots of ice-cold water, either in a
> pack or any other ideas I may be overlooking?

I was going to mention something in my earlier post about drinking ice
water and whether it cools you down, but I couldn't remember the
details and so had to do a little google research. In short, drinking
ice water won't cool you down, it just feels nice.

This one's about ice cream, but is applicable to ice water...

But don't reach for your ice cream scoop just yet. About 15 to 20
minutes after you eat it, ice cream has the opposite effect. "This is
because the parts of the body that are in contact with the ice cream
are physically cooled by the contact as heat is transferred to the ice
cream. However, as the digestive process kicks in, body temperature
increases as the body works to digest and absorb the nutrients in the
ice cream, as well as to store the calories," says Josephine Connolly-
Schoonen, Ph.D., R.D., a professor of family medicine, Stony Brook
University Medical Center. "The body will physiologically respond to
energy (i.e., heat) loss by increasing blood flow to the 'cool' region
and bring the temperature back up to a physiological 'body
temperature,'" (98.6 degrees), adds Barry G. Swanson, a professor and
co-chair of Food Science and Human Nutrition at Washington State
University. So, eating cold foods does not really change your body
temperature.

And I've read some stuff about how the body needs to burn even more
calories in heating up ice water before using it which may impact on a
athletes performance.

The best way that ice water is going to cool you off, is if you pour
it over your head.

Date: 09 Aug 2007 12:55:56
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Hydration pack (as in "Camel-Back" packs)

Chris M wrote:
>
> What are some ideas for carrying lots of ice-cold water, either in a
> pack or any other ideas I may be overlooking?
>

Bladders are basically it.
I have a couple bladders, but don't use them with any backpack at all.

If you get a recumbent you can mount them either to the seat (the
"unbottle" thing) or put them directly in the seat-back bag (some
seat-back bags have a special insulated + waterproof pocket with a
bottom drain and hose outlet, just for this use).

With a regular bike you might possibly find a front handlebar bag that
could serve the same purpose.
~

Date: 09 Aug 2007 16:50:46
From: DanKMTB@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Hydration pack (as in "Camel-Back" packs)

On Aug 8, 1:44 pm, Chris M <chrismcreyno...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I have 2 packs, though I have never used them on the bike (they were
> primarily used for hockey, as many rinks do not allow drinks on the
> rink or even the bleachers and the packs are great for that, or even
> for the goalie regardless of the rink's policies). I know that Bobby
> Julich used a few prototypes years ago, during time trials. The
> interesting thing to me is the location on the back located and shaped
> to additionally improve aerodynamic properties. I am also interested
> in any cooling benefits. I ride in very hot weather through many
> months in the summer where I might spend an hour or more at 100F +.
> The other day, I was already riding in 100F for over 20 minutes when I
> arrived at the base of a 2.1 mile hill (only 5% but still) and the
> geography was such that the micro-climate influenced by the road's
> protected valley caused the heat to quickly rise up to 114F before
> even reaching the first mile. Having a hydration pack with ice would
> have been great. I use insulated bottles and that helps for a little
> while (even they heat up at some point in the ride). When I freeze the
> contents of the 2nd bottle, I do often have nice cold water for the
> critical hottest sections of the rides. It is mostly psychological,
> but nothing tastes better than super cold ice water while your blood
> tries to keep from boiling over.
>
> What are some ideas for carrying lots of ice-cold water, either in a
> pack or any other ideas I may be overlooking?

I've been known to partially fill my waterbottles, then freeze them.
Top them off with water before I leave, and it melts throughout the
ride to give me cooler water longer. It also helps keep me from
drinking too much water too fast.

The bike I've been riding has the worst bottle cage locations ever, so
I've been using a camelback and filling it with some ice, then water.
The ice melts pretty fast in it, but by the time the water is hot I'm
hot & beat enough not to care as long as it's wet.

Date: 09 Aug 2007 17:09:38
From: Kinky Cowboy
Subject: Re: Hydration pack (as in "Camel-Back" packs)

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 10:44:30 -0700, Chris M
<chrismcreynolds@hotmail.com > wrote:

>to additionally improve aerodynamic properties. I am also interested
>in any cooling benefits...

>...Having a hydration pack with ice would
>have been great. I use insulated bottles and that helps for a little
>while (even they heat up at some point in the ride). When I freeze the
>contents of the 2nd bottle, I do often have nice cold water for the
>critical hottest sections of the rides.

A Camelbak can either cool you or keep your drink cool, more of one
means less of the other. The balance is determined by the amount of
insulation between your body and the fluid reservoir. I use the most
basic minimalist 1l Camelbak for 50 mile TTs and the drink is at body
temperature in less than two hours. The 3l Mule I use for day rides
obviously provides a much bigger heat sink and is better insulated, so
a fill of 2kg of ice plus 1l of drink will stay cool for several
hours.

Kinky Cowboy*

*Batteries not included
May contain traces of nuts
Your milage may vary

Date: 08 Aug 2007 21:15:32
From: Marz
Subject: Re: Hydration pack (as in "Camel-Back" packs)

Date: 08 Aug 2007 14:04:01
From:
Subject: Re: Hydration pack (as in "Camel-Back" packs)

On Aug 8, 11:44 am, Chris M <chrismcreyno...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I have 2 packs, though I have never used them on the bike (they were
> primarily used for hockey, as many rinks do not allow drinks on the
> rink or even the bleachers and the packs are great for that, or even
> for the goalie regardless of the rink's policies). I know that Bobby
> Julich used a few prototypes years ago, during time trials. The
> interesting thing to me is the location on the back located and shaped
> to additionally improve aerodynamic properties. I am also interested
> in any cooling benefits. I ride in very hot weather through many
> months in the summer where I might spend an hour or more at 100F +.
> The other day, I was already riding in 100F for over 20 minutes when I
> arrived at the base of a 2.1 mile hill (only 5% but still) and the
> geography was such that the micro-climate influenced by the road's
> protected valley caused the heat to quickly rise up to 114F before
> even reaching the first mile. Having a hydration pack with ice would
> have been great. I use insulated bottles and that helps for a little
> while (even they heat up at some point in the ride). When I freeze the
> contents of the 2nd bottle, I do often have nice cold water for the
> critical hottest sections of the rides. It is mostly psychological,
> but nothing tastes better than super cold ice water while your blood
> tries to keep from boiling over.
>
> What are some ideas for carrying lots of ice-cold water, either in a
> pack or any other ideas I may be overlooking?

I'm no cycle guru, but I've experimented with my Camelback when
cycling here in Utah, and I've found it's sweaty/uncomfortable as are
all backpacks. I usually just fill my two extra-large bottles with ice
and top up with water or sport drink, and carry a couple of liters in
a large screw-top plastic jug with the same ice-liquid mix in a
pannier with lunch. The ice in the pannier lasts about 3 hours; in the
bottles the water is air-temperature in 2 hours at most. Enough liquid
for about 4 hours total (with pre-hydration) here in the desert.

A few years ago I saw an ad for a hydration pack that hangs below the
top bar; I thought it looked a bit fad-ish and I've never seen one in
use, but might be the ticket for you if you can find one.

Date: 08 Aug 2007 10:53:18
From: Neil Brooks
Subject: Re: Hydration pack (as in "Camel-Back" packs)

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 10:44:30 -0700, Chris M
<chrismcreynolds@hotmail.com > wrote:

>What are some ideas for carrying lots of ice-cold water, either in a
>pack or any other ideas I may be overlooking?

I don't think you're missing much, dude.

There are bottles, insulated bottles, and hydration packs.

After that, it's SAG wagon, refreshment stations (organized rides),
and 7/11 for something out of the fridge.

COULD somebody be doing something re: refrigeration, either on the
bike or with a trailer, or something? Sure. Prolly.

But .... I just run in for an icy cold Gatorade when it's hot and I
want cold.

If you're in the boonies .... beg a local for a cup of ice :-)