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Main
Date: 13 Jun 2007 09:53:02
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
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Mechanic to Champions
For you retro enthusiast.
Great article interview by Bill McGann & Valeria Paoletti.
http://www.bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/piazzalunga.html
-tom
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Date: 16 Jun 2007 05:08:12
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
On Jun 15, 10:35 am, "Jay Beattie" <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com > wrote:
> "Diablo Scott" <DiabloScottNOS...@terra.es> wrote in message
>
> news:4671a00d$0$30567$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
>
> > Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
> >> In 1988 or whenever shimano first made STI, it WAS superior to
> >> anything Campagnolo had..until about 1992....I do see that Eddy
> >> rides
> >> his personal Merckx with Record on it.
>
> > That's when I switched camps. I knew that switching to indexed
> > Shimano would lock me in for all future part upgrades and I did it
> > gladly because the Campagnolo stuff was so inferior. I'd go back
> > now but don't have a compelling reason to.
>
> I feel the same way, although I had a Dura Ace group (with a SunTour
> derailleurs -- which I preferred to the Crane) in '75 and thought it
> was functionally superior to Campy even then. The fit and finish was
> not nearly as good, though, and I used NR on my racing bike because
> that is what one did in the 70s and early 80s. Campy was the only
> equipment that a serious amateur racer would hang on a racing frame.
> If you had the money, you bought Campagnolo. No tough component
> decisions. The warranty was awesome, too. Every time I broke an NR
> crank, I would just take the stub to Palo Alto Bikes, and they would
> pull an arm off the wall (they had those peg-board hooks filled with
> arms in every length) and hand it to me. I would have been happier
> not breaking cranks, but it was nice to know that I had a ready supply
> of replacements handy.-- Jay Beattie.
So much interest in components rather than frames. Frames are the
heart of the bicycle, not the shifter or derailleur or crank. But all
this thread is about Campag/shimano/suntour. maybe because there are
so many frame makers, so few component makers, I donno.
|
| |
Date: 15 Jun 2007 05:12:07
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
On Jun 14, 5:26 pm, "Carl Sundquist" <carl...@cox.net > wrote:
> "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <p...@vecchios.com> wrote in messagenews:1181851294.736007.28910@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Wait a minute..how much influence do ya suppose the frame maker has on
> > the team when it comes to components?? I'm thinking not much. The
> > frame sponsor is separate from the component sp[onsor, from the
> > clothes sponsor, from the shoe sponsor...etc....
>
> It depends on how many bikes the frame maker produces. If you don't think
> that a bike manufacturer like Trek or Giant that spec tens or hundreds of
> thousands of bikes each year (regardless of whether they are racing bikes or
> not) doesn't have tremendous influence, you're crazy. If you're thinking
> along the lines of Zinn, you're probably right.
Most Giants sold in the era of Giants in the professional peloton were
spec'ed with shimano but the teams with Giants were spec'ed with
Campagnolo. Specialized doesn't have a Campag bike in their lineup but
all but 1 team are equipped with Campag components...I think the only
frame maker that specifies componentry is DeRosa.
|
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Date: 14 Jun 2007 20:22:56
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
On Jun 14, 10:09 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net > wrote:
> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > On Jun 14, 8:35 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> >> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:V53ci.19168$C96.4494@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>
> >>> Proof that the interview's fake-
> >>> Q: Your career was long and you saw the profound changes to the bicycle,
> >>> from a steel 10-speed to an aluminum, super lightweight 20-speed. Did
> >>> these changes make your job easier?
> >>> PP: Oh yes, they did! Especially when all the innovations related to
> >>> Shimano arrived.
> >>> No self-respecting Italian would say that! :>)
> >> Yea, I caught that too, but I do remember Eddy Merckx (although he's not
> >> Italian) said something along those lines. This is when his company put out
> >> the steel red/white/green 7-11 Merckx production bike years ago. If you
> >> recall it had all new Dura Ace components. Someone questioned him on this
> >> and his reply was that Shimano components were functionally superior to
> >> Campagnolo.
>
> > IIRC, that was in the ~mid-late '80s. At that point, Shimano
> > components *were* functionally superior to Campy.
>
> >> I was surprised Eddy said that, but I guess he had to defend
> >> putting on Shimano components.
>
> > He was simply stating a fact.
>
> indeed. but it wasn't just function, it extended to other factors in
> design/production quality too. remember all those broken campy cranks?
The mid-late '80s was more or less the end of the old Campy "double
standard". Prior to that time, if you broke a brand _____ crank, it
was because the crank was 'inferior'. But, if you broke a Campy crank,
you, the user, must have "abused" it.
A similar mentality overlooked the crappy shifting of Campy RDs (v.
Suntour and others) because the Campy was "built to last". (I always
wondered who wanted a crappy shifting RD that would last forever.
Seemed like a bad idea.....)
> shimano did their fatigue homework and buttoned that problem down
> good. campy had to /really/ raise their game to get back on par in that
> department.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
|
| | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 20:29:15
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> On Jun 14, 10:09 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>>> On Jun 14, 8:35 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>>> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:V53ci.19168$C96.4494@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>>>>> Proof that the interview's fake-
>>>>> Q: Your career was long and you saw the profound changes to the bicycle,
>>>>> from a steel 10-speed to an aluminum, super lightweight 20-speed. Did
>>>>> these changes make your job easier?
>>>>> PP: Oh yes, they did! Especially when all the innovations related to
>>>>> Shimano arrived.
>>>>> No self-respecting Italian would say that! :>)
>>>> Yea, I caught that too, but I do remember Eddy Merckx (although he's not
>>>> Italian) said something along those lines. This is when his company put out
>>>> the steel red/white/green 7-11 Merckx production bike years ago. If you
>>>> recall it had all new Dura Ace components. Someone questioned him on this
>>>> and his reply was that Shimano components were functionally superior to
>>>> Campagnolo.
>>> IIRC, that was in the ~mid-late '80s. At that point, Shimano
>>> components *were* functionally superior to Campy.
>>>> I was surprised Eddy said that, but I guess he had to defend
>>>> putting on Shimano components.
>>> He was simply stating a fact.
>> indeed. but it wasn't just function, it extended to other factors in
>> design/production quality too. remember all those broken campy cranks?
>
>
> The mid-late '80s was more or less the end of the old Campy "double
> standard". Prior to that time, if you broke a brand _____ crank, it
> was because the crank was 'inferior'. But, if you broke a Campy crank,
> you, the user, must have "abused" it.
>
> A similar mentality overlooked the crappy shifting of Campy RDs (v.
> Suntour
another good point. shimano didn't really get going until they adopted
suntour's slanted parallelogram design. without that, other great
innovations like index shifting and freehub/cassette gearing would have
been largely ignored imo.
> and others) because the Campy was "built to last". (I always
> wondered who wanted a crappy shifting RD that would last forever.
> Seemed like a bad idea.....)
>
>
>
>> shimano did their fatigue homework and buttoned that problem down
>> good. campy had to /really/ raise their game to get back on par in that
>> department.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>
|
| |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 13:01:34
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
On Jun 14, 12:20 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jun 14, 10:20 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:1181832266.287460.249430@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > On Jun 14, 8:35 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> > >> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>
> > >>news:V53ci.19168$C96.4494@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>
> > >> > Proof that the interview's fake-
>
> > >> > Q: Your career was long and you saw the profound changes to the
> > >> > bicycle,
> > >> > from a steel 10-speed to an aluminum, super lightweight 20-speed. Did
> > >> > these changes make your job easier?
>
> > >> > PP: Oh yes, they did! Especially when all the innovations related to
> > >> > Shimano arrived.
>
> > >> > No self-respecting Italian would say that! :>)
>
> > >> Yea, I caught that too, but I do remember Eddy Merckx (although he's not
> > >> Italian) said something along those lines. This is when his company put
> > >> out
> > >> the steel red/white/green 7-11 Merckx production bike years ago. If you
> > >> recall it had all new Dura Ace components. Someone questioned him on this
> > >> and his reply was that Shimano components were functionally superior to
> > >> Campagnolo.
>
> > > IIRC, that was in the ~mid-late '80s. At that point, Shimano
> > > components *were* functionally superior to Campy.
>
> > Agree, the 80's was a revolution period for Shimano.
>
> And a kind of "down" period for Campy: Stynchro shifters, the exerable
> SGR pedals, outdated RD designs, etc.
>
>
>
> > >> I was surprised Eddy said that, but I guess he had to defend
> > >> putting on Shimano components.
>
> > > He was simply stating a fact.
>
> > It's possible, but Shimano could have saw an opening and took
> > advantage of it.
>
> By selling Merckx the D-A stuff cheap? Perhaps so, but if the stuff
> wasn't "up to snuff", I don't think Merckx would risk sullying his
> reputation by using it.
>
> > Merckx steel frames were up there with Colnago's
> > and Bianchi's in the 80's. I remember the magazine cover well, Andy
> > Hampsten leaning on a Merckx red/white/green (Italian colors)
> > 7-11 bike, outfitted with Shimano Dura-Ace components.
>
> Yep, Buy-Cycling magazine, ca. 1988 (Did the caption say "America's
> Best Rider"?)
Wait a minute..how much influence do ya suppose the frame maker has on
the team when it comes to components?? I'm thinking not much. The
frame sponsor is separate from the component sp[onsor, from the
clothes sponsor, from the shoe sponsor...etc....
|
| | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 18:26:57
From: Carl Sundquist
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <peter@vecchios.com > wrote in message
news:1181851294.736007.28910@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Wait a minute..how much influence do ya suppose the frame maker has on
> the team when it comes to components?? I'm thinking not much. The
> frame sponsor is separate from the component sp[onsor, from the
> clothes sponsor, from the shoe sponsor...etc....
>
It depends on how many bikes the frame maker produces. If you don't think
that a bike manufacturer like Trek or Giant that spec tens or hundreds of
thousands of bikes each year (regardless of whether they are racing bikes or
not) doesn't have tremendous influence, you're crazy. If you're thinking
along the lines of Zinn, you're probably right.
|
| | | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 18:47:33
From: Carl Sundquist
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
"Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox.net > wrote in message
news:d9kci.122547$vE1.119580@newsfe24.lga...
>
> "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <peter@vecchios.com> wrote in message
> news:1181851294.736007.28910@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Wait a minute..how much influence do ya suppose the frame maker has on
>> the team when it comes to components?? I'm thinking not much. The
>> frame sponsor is separate from the component sp[onsor, from the
>> clothes sponsor, from the shoe sponsor...etc....
>>
>
> It depends on how many bikes the frame maker produces. If you don't think
> that a bike manufacturer like Trek or Giant that spec tens or hundreds of
> thousands of bikes each year (regardless of whether they are racing bikes
> or not) doesn't have tremendous influence, you're crazy. If you're
> thinking along the lines of Zinn, you're probably right.
About 20 years ago, there was a guy who was involved with developing a
subdivision/community in Boca Raton. For whatever reason, they wanted to put
a velodrome in the community, too. They got a marketing guy to work on
securing funding for it and eventually he was able to get through a crack in
the McDonalds corporation. They agreed to do it but they, in turn, were
leaning on their suppliers like Coke and Heinz to help them foot the bill
(as in "We buy $XX million worth of product from you each year. We
want/expect you to help contribute to this project.") for the funding they
had pledged.
Of course the velodrome (and community for all I can remember) never made it
off the drawing board, so it was a moot point.
|
| |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 12:59:36
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
On Jun 14, 9:20 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu > wrote:
> "Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1181832266.287460.249430@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Jun 14, 8:35 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> >> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:V53ci.19168$C96.4494@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>
> >> > Proof that the interview's fake-
>
> >> > Q: Your career was long and you saw the profound changes to the
> >> > bicycle,
> >> > from a steel 10-speed to an aluminum, super lightweight 20-speed. Did
> >> > these changes make your job easier?
>
> >> > PP: Oh yes, they did! Especially when all the innovations related to
> >> > Shimano arrived.
>
> >> > No self-respecting Italian would say that! :>)
>
> >> Yea, I caught that too, but I do remember Eddy Merckx (although he's not
> >> Italian) said something along those lines. This is when his company put
> >> out
> >> the steel red/white/green 7-11 Merckx production bike years ago. If you
> >> recall it had all new Dura Ace components. Someone questioned him on this
> >> and his reply was that Shimano components were functionally superior to
> >> Campagnolo.
>
> > IIRC, that was in the ~mid-late '80s. At that point, Shimano
> > components *were* functionally superior to Campy.
>
> Agree, the 80's was a revolution period for Shimano.
>
>
>
> >> I was surprised Eddy said that, but I guess he had to defend
> >> putting on Shimano components.
>
> > He was simply stating a fact.
>
> It's possible, but Shimano could have saw an opening and took
> advantage of it. Merckx steel frames were up there with Colnago's
> and Bianchi's in the 80's. I remember the magazine cover well, Andy
> Hampsten leaning on a Merckx red/white/green (Italian colors)
> 7-11 bike, outfitted with Shimano Dura-Ace components.
> -tom
Please...because when it came to sponsorship, that's who sponsored the
7-11 squad. I'd be willing to bet that Campagnolo wouldn't have
sponsored an American team during this time frame even if they had
asked.
OBTW-the green/white/red(Italian colors, r/w/g are Mexican colors)
were the colors found on 7-11s..had nothing to do with Italia.
|
| | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 18:21:23
From: Carl Sundquist
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <peter@vecchios.com > wrote in message
news:1181851176.861894.188820@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>
> Please...because when it came to sponsorship, that's who sponsored the
> 7-11 squad. I'd be willing to bet that Campagnolo wouldn't have
> sponsored an American team during this time frame even if they had
> asked.
>
Why do you say that? Off the top of my head, both the domestic powerhouse
Sunkyong team and Team Lycra were sponsored by Campy, and I wouldn't be
surprised if that included some cash along with the parts themselves.
|
| |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 12:56:35
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
On Jun 14, 7:35 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu > wrote:
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>
> news:V53ci.19168$C96.4494@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>
> > Proof that the interview's fake-
>
> > Q: Your career was long and you saw the profound changes to the bicycle,
> > from a steel 10-speed to an aluminum, super lightweight 20-speed. Did
> > these changes make your job easier?
>
> > PP: Oh yes, they did! Especially when all the innovations related to
> > Shimano arrived.
>
> > No self-respecting Italian would say that! :>)
>
> Yea, I caught that too, but I do remember Eddy Merckx (although he's not
> Italian) said something along those lines. This is when his company put out
> the steel red/white/green 7-11 Merckx production bike years ago. If you
> recall it had all new Dura Ace components. Someone questioned him on this
> and his reply was that Shimano components were functionally superior to
> Campagnolo. I was surprised Eddy said that, but I guess he had to defend
> putting on Shimano components.
> -tom
In 1988 or whenever shimano first made STI, it WAS superior to
anything Campagnolo had..until about 1992....I do see that Eddy rides
his personal Merckx with Record on it.
|
| | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 13:34:21
From: Diablo Scott
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> In 1988 or whenever shimano first made STI, it WAS superior to
> anything Campagnolo had..until about 1992....I do see that Eddy rides
> his personal Merckx with Record on it.
That's when I switched camps. I knew that switching to indexed Shimano
would lock me in for all future part upgrades and I did it gladly
because the Campagnolo stuff was so inferior. I'd go back now but don't
have a compelling reason to.
When did that Maynard Hershon column come out? - the one where he
pointed out all the flaws in the Campy components and announced he was
no longer a Campy man. That was another pivotal event in the rise of
Shimano.
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Jun 2007 09:35:22
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
"Diablo Scott" <DiabloScottNOSPAM@terra.es > wrote in message
news:4671a00d$0$30567$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
>> In 1988 or whenever shimano first made STI, it WAS superior to
>> anything Campagnolo had..until about 1992....I do see that Eddy
>> rides
>> his personal Merckx with Record on it.
>
>
> That's when I switched camps. I knew that switching to indexed
> Shimano would lock me in for all future part upgrades and I did it
> gladly because the Campagnolo stuff was so inferior. I'd go back
> now but don't have a compelling reason to.
I feel the same way, although I had a Dura Ace group (with a SunTour
derailleurs -- which I preferred to the Crane) in '75 and thought it
was functionally superior to Campy even then. The fit and finish was
not nearly as good, though, and I used NR on my racing bike because
that is what one did in the 70s and early 80s. Campy was the only
equipment that a serious amateur racer would hang on a racing frame.
If you had the money, you bought Campagnolo. No tough component
decisions. The warranty was awesome, too. Every time I broke an NR
crank, I would just take the stub to Palo Alto Bikes, and they would
pull an arm off the wall (they had those peg-board hooks filled with
arms in every length) and hand it to me. I would have been happier
not breaking cranks, but it was nice to know that I had a ready supply
of replacements handy.-- Jay Beattie.
|
| |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 11:32:51
From: Frank Drackman
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
"Tom Nakashima" <tom@slac.stanford.edu > wrote in message
news:f4p7gl$p7e$1@news.Stanford.EDU...
> Mechanic to Champions
> For you retro enthusiast.
> Great article interview by Bill McGann & Valeria Paoletti.
> http://www.bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/piazzalunga.html
> -tom
>
>
Thank you for the link. It was a great read and it is easy to see why he
has so many friends.
|
| |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 11:20:53
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
On Jun 14, 10:20 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu > wrote:
> "Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1181832266.287460.249430@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 14, 8:35 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> >> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:V53ci.19168$C96.4494@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>
> >> > Proof that the interview's fake-
>
> >> > Q: Your career was long and you saw the profound changes to the
> >> > bicycle,
> >> > from a steel 10-speed to an aluminum, super lightweight 20-speed. Did
> >> > these changes make your job easier?
>
> >> > PP: Oh yes, they did! Especially when all the innovations related to
> >> > Shimano arrived.
>
> >> > No self-respecting Italian would say that! :>)
>
> >> Yea, I caught that too, but I do remember Eddy Merckx (although he's not
> >> Italian) said something along those lines. This is when his company put
> >> out
> >> the steel red/white/green 7-11 Merckx production bike years ago. If you
> >> recall it had all new Dura Ace components. Someone questioned him on this
> >> and his reply was that Shimano components were functionally superior to
> >> Campagnolo.
>
> > IIRC, that was in the ~mid-late '80s. At that point, Shimano
> > components *were* functionally superior to Campy.
>
> Agree, the 80's was a revolution period for Shimano.
>
And a kind of "down" period for Campy: Stynchro shifters, the exerable
SGR pedals, outdated RD designs, etc.
>
>
> >> I was surprised Eddy said that, but I guess he had to defend
> >> putting on Shimano components.
>
> > He was simply stating a fact.
>
> It's possible, but Shimano could have saw an opening and took
> advantage of it.
By selling Merckx the D-A stuff cheap? Perhaps so, but if the stuff
wasn't "up to snuff", I don't think Merckx would risk sullying his
reputation by using it.
> Merckx steel frames were up there with Colnago's
> and Bianchi's in the 80's. I remember the magazine cover well, Andy
> Hampsten leaning on a Merckx red/white/green (Italian colors)
> 7-11 bike, outfitted with Shimano Dura-Ace components.
Yep, Buy-Cycling magazine, ca. 1988 (Did the caption say "America's
Best Rider"?)
|
| | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 11:42:41
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
"Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote in message
news:1181845253.366681.33270@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 14, 10:20 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>> "Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1181832266.287460.249430@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jun 14, 8:35 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>> >> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:V53ci.19168$C96.4494@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>>
>> >> > Proof that the interview's fake-
>>
>> >> > Q: Your career was long and you saw the profound changes to the
>> >> > bicycle,
>> >> > from a steel 10-speed to an aluminum, super lightweight 20-speed.
>> >> > Did
>> >> > these changes make your job easier?
>>
>> >> > PP: Oh yes, they did! Especially when all the innovations related to
>> >> > Shimano arrived.
>>
>> >> > No self-respecting Italian would say that! :>)
>>
>> >> Yea, I caught that too, but I do remember Eddy Merckx (although he's
>> >> not
>> >> Italian) said something along those lines. This is when his company
>> >> put
>> >> out
>> >> the steel red/white/green 7-11 Merckx production bike years ago. If
>> >> you
>> >> recall it had all new Dura Ace components. Someone questioned him on
>> >> this
>> >> and his reply was that Shimano components were functionally superior
>> >> to
>> >> Campagnolo.
>>
>> > IIRC, that was in the ~mid-late '80s. At that point, Shimano
>> > components *were* functionally superior to Campy.
>>
>> Agree, the 80's was a revolution period for Shimano.
>>
>
> And a kind of "down" period for Campy: Stynchro shifters, the exerable
> SGR pedals, outdated RD designs, etc.
>
>
>>
>>
>> >> I was surprised Eddy said that, but I guess he had to defend
>> >> putting on Shimano components.
>>
>> > He was simply stating a fact.
>>
>> It's possible, but Shimano could have saw an opening and took
>> advantage of it.
>
> By selling Merckx the D-A stuff cheap? Perhaps so, but if the stuff
> wasn't "up to snuff", I don't think Merckx would risk sullying his
> reputation by using it.
>
>> Merckx steel frames were up there with Colnago's
>> and Bianchi's in the 80's. I remember the magazine cover well, Andy
>> Hampsten leaning on a Merckx red/white/green (Italian colors)
>> 7-11 bike, outfitted with Shimano Dura-Ace components.
>
> Yep, Buy-Cycling magazine, ca. 1988 (Did the caption say "America's
> Best Rider"?)
>
I remember reading an article in Bicycle Magazine comparing
Campagnolo components to Shimano components in the late 80's.
There was an elegant photo of the Campy Delta Brakes with a caption
that read: Our components look like jewelry!
-tom
|
| |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 07:44:26
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
On Jun 14, 8:35 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu > wrote:
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>
> news:V53ci.19168$C96.4494@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>
> > Proof that the interview's fake-
>
> > Q: Your career was long and you saw the profound changes to the bicycle,
> > from a steel 10-speed to an aluminum, super lightweight 20-speed. Did
> > these changes make your job easier?
>
> > PP: Oh yes, they did! Especially when all the innovations related to
> > Shimano arrived.
>
> > No self-respecting Italian would say that! :>)
>
> Yea, I caught that too, but I do remember Eddy Merckx (although he's not
> Italian) said something along those lines. This is when his company put out
> the steel red/white/green 7-11 Merckx production bike years ago. If you
> recall it had all new Dura Ace components. Someone questioned him on this
> and his reply was that Shimano components were functionally superior to
> Campagnolo.
IIRC, that was in the ~mid-late '80s. At that point, Shimano
components *were* functionally superior to Campy.
> I was surprised Eddy said that, but I guess he had to defend
> putting on Shimano components.
He was simply stating a fact.
|
| | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 20:09:04
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> On Jun 14, 8:35 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:V53ci.19168$C96.4494@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>>
>>> Proof that the interview's fake-
>>> Q: Your career was long and you saw the profound changes to the bicycle,
>>> from a steel 10-speed to an aluminum, super lightweight 20-speed. Did
>>> these changes make your job easier?
>>> PP: Oh yes, they did! Especially when all the innovations related to
>>> Shimano arrived.
>>> No self-respecting Italian would say that! :>)
>> Yea, I caught that too, but I do remember Eddy Merckx (although he's not
>> Italian) said something along those lines. This is when his company put out
>> the steel red/white/green 7-11 Merckx production bike years ago. If you
>> recall it had all new Dura Ace components. Someone questioned him on this
>> and his reply was that Shimano components were functionally superior to
>> Campagnolo.
>
> IIRC, that was in the ~mid-late '80s. At that point, Shimano
> components *were* functionally superior to Campy.
>
>
>> I was surprised Eddy said that, but I guess he had to defend
>> putting on Shimano components.
>
> He was simply stating a fact.
>
indeed. but it wasn't just function, it extended to other factors in
design/production quality too. remember all those broken campy cranks?
shimano did their fatigue homework and buttoned that problem down
good. campy had to /really/ raise their game to get back on par in that
department.
|
| | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 08:20:25
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
"Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote in message
news:1181832266.287460.249430@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 14, 8:35 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:V53ci.19168$C96.4494@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>>
>> > Proof that the interview's fake-
>>
>> > Q: Your career was long and you saw the profound changes to the
>> > bicycle,
>> > from a steel 10-speed to an aluminum, super lightweight 20-speed. Did
>> > these changes make your job easier?
>>
>> > PP: Oh yes, they did! Especially when all the innovations related to
>> > Shimano arrived.
>>
>> > No self-respecting Italian would say that! :>)
>>
>> Yea, I caught that too, but I do remember Eddy Merckx (although he's not
>> Italian) said something along those lines. This is when his company put
>> out
>> the steel red/white/green 7-11 Merckx production bike years ago. If you
>> recall it had all new Dura Ace components. Someone questioned him on this
>> and his reply was that Shimano components were functionally superior to
>> Campagnolo.
>
> IIRC, that was in the ~mid-late '80s. At that point, Shimano
> components *were* functionally superior to Campy.
Agree, the 80's was a revolution period for Shimano.
>
>
>> I was surprised Eddy said that, but I guess he had to defend
>> putting on Shimano components.
>
> He was simply stating a fact.
It's possible, but Shimano could have saw an opening and took
advantage of it. Merckx steel frames were up there with Colnago's
and Bianchi's in the 80's. I remember the magazine cover well, Andy
Hampsten leaning on a Merckx red/white/green (Italian colors)
7-11 bike, outfitted with Shimano Dura-Ace components.
-tom
|
| | | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 20:22:11
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
Tom Nakashima wrote:
> "Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in message
> news:1181832266.287460.249430@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jun 14, 8:35 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:V53ci.19168$C96.4494@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>>>
>>>> Proof that the interview's fake-
>>>> Q: Your career was long and you saw the profound changes to the
>>>> bicycle,
>>>> from a steel 10-speed to an aluminum, super lightweight 20-speed. Did
>>>> these changes make your job easier?
>>>> PP: Oh yes, they did! Especially when all the innovations related to
>>>> Shimano arrived.
>>>> No self-respecting Italian would say that! :>)
>>> Yea, I caught that too, but I do remember Eddy Merckx (although he's not
>>> Italian) said something along those lines. This is when his company put
>>> out
>>> the steel red/white/green 7-11 Merckx production bike years ago. If you
>>> recall it had all new Dura Ace components. Someone questioned him on this
>>> and his reply was that Shimano components were functionally superior to
>>> Campagnolo.
>> IIRC, that was in the ~mid-late '80s. At that point, Shimano
>> components *were* functionally superior to Campy.
>
> Agree, the 80's was a revolution period for Shimano.
>
>>
>>> I was surprised Eddy said that, but I guess he had to defend
>>> putting on Shimano components.
>> He was simply stating a fact.
>
> It's possible, but Shimano could have saw
"seen"
> an opening and took
"taken"
> advantage of it.
this was a test, right?
> Merckx steel frames were up there with Colnago's
> and Bianchi's in the 80's. I remember the magazine cover well, Andy
> Hampsten leaning on a Merckx red/white/green (Italian colors)
> 7-11 bike, outfitted with Shimano Dura-Ace components.
> -tom
>
>
|
| |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 05:21:48
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
On Jun 13, 10:03 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
> Proof that the interview's fake-
>
> Q: Your career was long and you saw the profound changes to the bicycle,
> from a steel 10-speed to an aluminum, super lightweight 20-speed. Did these
> changes make your job easier?
>
> PP: Oh yes, they did! Especially when all the innovations related to Shimano
> arrived.
>
> No self-respecting Italian would say that! :>)
Well, he realized that shimano made some good improvements to this
stuff, that Campagnolo made better.....
>
> But I agree, it's a great read. Bill McGann's been doing fantastic stuff.
> His book on the hsitory of the TdF is a must-read for anyone interested in
> the early days of racing. Can't wait for part 2 to arrive.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
|
| |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 03:14:28
From: sergio
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
On Jun 13, 6:53 pm, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu > wrote:
> Mechanic to Champions
> For you retro enthusiast.
> Great article interview by Bill McGann & Valeria Paoletti.http://www.bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/piazzalunga.html
> -tom
Pardon my ignorance.
Do you know if Piazzalunga is still around and if possible for anyone
to drop by?
When was that interview given?
Sergio
Pisa
|
| |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 00:59:26
From: Johnny Sunset
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
On Jun 13, 10:10 pm, "jim beam" wrote:
> Tom Nakashima wrote:
> > ...
> > Your welcome Carl,
> > -tom
>
> pah-leeeze, "you're", [as in "you are"] not "your".
>
> change of useage required. just like when people change there break pads.
Next topic - capital letters.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
|
| | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 09:49:03
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
Johnny Sunset wrote:
> On Jun 13, 10:10 pm, "jim beam" wrote:
>> Tom Nakashima wrote:
>>> ...
>>> Your welcome Carl,
>>> -tom
>>
>> pah-leeeze, "you're", [as in "you are"] not "your".
>>
>> change of useage required. just like when people change there break
>> pads.
>
> Next topic - capital letters.
really?
|
| |
Date: 13 Jun 2007 21:03:00
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
Proof that the interview's fake-
Q: Your career was long and you saw the profound changes to the bicycle,
from a steel 10-speed to an aluminum, super lightweight 20-speed. Did these
changes make your job easier?
PP: Oh yes, they did! Especially when all the innovations related to Shimano
arrived.
No self-respecting Italian would say that! : >)
But I agree, it's a great read. Bill McGann's been doing fantastic stuff.
His book on the hsitory of the TdF is a must-read for anyone interested in
the early days of racing. Can't wait for part 2 to arrive.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
|
| | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 19:05:16
From: Steve Gravrock
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
On 2007-06-14, Mike Jacoubowsky <mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
> Proof that the interview's fake-
>
> Q: Your career was long and you saw the profound changes to the bicycle,
> from a steel 10-speed to an aluminum, super lightweight 20-speed. Did these
> changes make your job easier?
>
> PP: Oh yes, they did! Especially when all the innovations related to Shimano
> arrived.
>
> No self-respecting Italian would say that! :>)
That bit seemed like it was very carefully worded. You'll notice that
he said "innovations related to Shimano", not "innovations from Shimano"
or anything like that.
|
| | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 06:35:06
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote in message
news:V53ci.19168$C96.4494@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
> Proof that the interview's fake-
>
> Q: Your career was long and you saw the profound changes to the bicycle,
> from a steel 10-speed to an aluminum, super lightweight 20-speed. Did
> these changes make your job easier?
>
> PP: Oh yes, they did! Especially when all the innovations related to
> Shimano arrived.
>
> No self-respecting Italian would say that! :>)
Yea, I caught that too, but I do remember Eddy Merckx (although he's not
Italian) said something along those lines. This is when his company put out
the steel red/white/green 7-11 Merckx production bike years ago. If you
recall it had all new Dura Ace components. Someone questioned him on this
and his reply was that Shimano components were functionally superior to
Campagnolo. I was surprised Eddy said that, but I guess he had to defend
putting on Shimano components.
-tom
|
| |
Date: 13 Jun 2007 13:02:46
From:
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:53:02 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
<tom@slac.stanford.edu > wrote:
>Mechanic to Champions
>For you retro enthusiast.
>Great article interview by Bill McGann & Valeria Paoletti.
>http://www.bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/piazzalunga.html
>-tom
Dear Tom,
Thanks--nice article.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
|
| | |
Date: 13 Jun 2007 12:32:52
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
<carlfogel@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:upf0735143m9taik3u2jvskb7lfcs9vhqb@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:53:02 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
> <tom@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
>>Mechanic to Champions
>>For you retro enthusiast.
>>Great article interview by Bill McGann & Valeria Paoletti.
>>http://www.bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/piazzalunga.html
>>-tom
>
> Dear Tom,
>
> Thanks--nice article.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel
Your welcome Carl,
-tom
|
| | | |
Date: 13 Jun 2007 20:10:22
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
Tom Nakashima wrote:
> <carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:upf0735143m9taik3u2jvskb7lfcs9vhqb@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:53:02 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
>> <tom@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Mechanic to Champions
>>> For you retro enthusiast.
>>> Great article interview by Bill McGann & Valeria Paoletti.
>>> http://www.bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/piazzalunga.html
>>> -tom
>> Dear Tom,
>>
>> Thanks--nice article.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Carl Fogel
>
> Your welcome Carl,
> -tom
>
>
pah-leeeze, "you're", [as in "you are"] not "your".
change of useage required. just like when people change there break pads.
|
| | | | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 09:08:55
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
In article <W-Kdne_FpJgCLO3bnZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d@speakeasy.net >,
jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net > wrote:
> Tom Nakashima wrote:
> > <carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:upf0735143m9taik3u2jvskb7lfcs9vhqb@4ax.com...
> >> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:53:02 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
> >> <tom@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Mechanic to Champions For you retro enthusiast. Great article
> >>> interview by Bill McGann & Valeria Paoletti.
> >>> http://www.bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/piazzalunga.html -tom
> >> Dear Tom,
> >>
> >> Thanks--nice article.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Carl Fogel
> >
> > Your welcome Carl, -tom
> >
> >
> pah-leeeze, "you're", [as in "you are"] not "your".
That's a bit rich. If you're going to snipe at people's grammar,
perhaps it would be best to conform to standard capitalization in your
own posts. :-) As the saying goes, every spelling flame contains an
eror.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 20:20:23
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
Tim McNamara wrote:
> In article <W-Kdne_FpJgCLO3bnZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>
>> Tom Nakashima wrote:
>>> <carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:upf0735143m9taik3u2jvskb7lfcs9vhqb@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:53:02 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
>>>> <tom@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Mechanic to Champions For you retro enthusiast. Great article
>>>>> interview by Bill McGann & Valeria Paoletti.
>>>>> http://www.bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/piazzalunga.html -tom
>>>> Dear Tom,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks--nice article.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Carl Fogel
>>> Your welcome Carl, -tom
>>>
>>>
>> pah-leeeze, "you're", [as in "you are"] not "your".
>
> That's a bit rich. If you're going to snipe at people's grammar,
> perhaps it would be best to conform to standard capitalization in your
> own posts. :-) As the saying goes, every spelling flame contains an
> eror.
thing is timmy, i can hit the "shift" key any time i want - but you
can't hit the "unretard" key.
|
| | | | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 13:10:08
From: Eric C.
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
jim beam wrote:
> Tom Nakashima wrote:
>> <carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:upf0735143m9taik3u2jvskb7lfcs9vhqb@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:53:02 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
>>> <tom@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mechanic to Champions
>>>> For you retro enthusiast.
>>>> Great article interview by Bill McGann & Valeria Paoletti.
>>>> http://www.bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/piazzalunga.html
>>>> -tom
>>> Dear Tom,
>>>
>>> Thanks--nice article.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Carl Fogel
>>
>> Your welcome Carl,
>> -tom
>>
> pah-leeeze, "you're", [as in "you are"] not "your".
>
> change of useage required. just like when people change there break pads.
That's 'their', not 'there' ;)
|
| | | | | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 12:52:13
From: Colin Nelson
Subject: Re: Interview with Pietro Piazzalunga
|
"Eric C." <user@example.net > wrote in message
news:5dcph0F33vd81U1@mid.individual.net...
> jim beam wrote:
> > Tom Nakashima wrote:
> >> <carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >> news:upf0735143m9taik3u2jvskb7lfcs9vhqb@4ax.com...
> >>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:53:02 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
> >>> <tom@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Mechanic to Champions
> >>>> For you retro enthusiast.
> >>>> Great article interview by Bill McGann & Valeria Paoletti.
> >>>> http://www.bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/piazzalunga.html
> >>>> -tom
> >>> Dear Tom,
> >>>
> >>> Thanks--nice article.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>>
> >>> Carl Fogel
> >>
> >> Your welcome Carl,
> >> -tom
> >>
> > pah-leeeze, "you're", [as in "you are"] not "your".
> >
> > change of useage required. just like when people change there break
pads.
>
> That's 'their', not 'there' ;)
Oh go on then ... [break] brake pads.
--
Colin N.
Lincolnshire is mostly flat ... But the wind is mostly in your face
|
|
