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Main
Date: 29 Jun 2007 09:22:06
From: AWN
Subject: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
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This may sound like a silly question but my experience with working on hubs
is limited to minor adjustments to cone tension. I have 2 rear Deore/LX mtb
hubs that seem to be Œsticking¹ a little as if missing engagement/pawl
connection. Is there a Œkit¹ available for rebuilding these hubs or is it
even worthwhile? Is it true that the XT versions are far easier to rebuild
with drop in cartridge bearings? It seems easier to me that dropping in
bearings one at a time in a surgically-clean envirmonment. Anyway, are the
XTs that much better or do you have other suggestions? I do fairly
aggressive XC and very light DH riding. I don¹t take huge drops or anything
and for the mostpart I like to be relatively close to the ground.
I am using these hubs with Rhinolite rims and DT Swiss spokes if it makes
any difference...
Thanks for any advice you can offer based on experience.
Andrew.
--B_3265953727_283104
Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML >
<HEAD >
<TITLE >Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs</TITLE>
</HEAD >
<BODY >
<FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" >This may sound like a silly question but my experience=
with working on hubs is limited to minor adjustments to cone tension. =
;I have 2 rear Deore/LX mtb hubs that seem to be ‘sticking’ a li=
ttle as if missing engagement/pawl connection. Is there a ‘kit&#=
8217; available for rebuilding these hubs or is it even worthwhile? Is=
it true that the XT versions are far easier to rebuild with drop in cartrid=
ge bearings? It seems easier to me that dropping in bearings one at a =
time in a surgically-clean envirmonment. Anyway, are the XTs that much=
better or do you have other suggestions? I do fairly aggressive XC an=
d very light DH riding. I don’t take huge drops or anything and =
for the mostpart I like to be relatively close to the ground.<BR >
<BR >
I am using these hubs with Rhinolite rims and DT Swiss spokes if it makes a=
ny difference...<BR >
<BR >
Thanks for any advice you can offer based on experience.<BR >
Andrew.<BR >
</FONT >
</BODY >
</HTML >
--B_3265953727_283104--
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Date: 18 Jul 2007 04:28:34
From: andresmuro@aol.com
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
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On Jul 17, 6:48 am, AWN <anix...@cogeco.ca > wrote:
> Andres,
>
> Thanks for your comments. To answer your questions, it is a disc braking
> system so running with them this way isn't an option. As for sitting in the
> frame centered beforehand, yes, the wheel was centered beforehand. I had a
> feeling it had something to do with the axle spacing/centering. Everything
> I read suggests that the protruding axle on either side should match in
> terms of how many threads are exposed. I'm thinking that perhaps there are
> exceptions to this rule and perhaps that's why I have an issue. I wish I
> took my own advice an 'landmarked' the threads before disassembly. As for
> how far the wheel is off center, it's towards the disc-side by about the
> width of the tire (2.3-2.5" I would guess). I guess the name of the game is
> to expose more threads on the side it's favouring right? It seems a stupid
> question and I do apoloigze but my new newborn boy has had us awake for days
> now and the brain isn't always as snappy as it could be.
>
> Thanks.
> Andrew.
>
> in article 1184675122.754839.161...@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com,
> andresm...@aol.com at andresm...@aol.com wrote on 7/17/07 8:25 AM:
>
> > If the wheels were centered before you unassembled the hubs, and know
> > they are off centered, it is very likely that you tightened the cones
> > and nuts slightly off and that now, they are not sitting in the
> > dropouts exactly how they did before. At the end of each axle, there
> > are the nuts with a little free axles space for the wheels to sit on
> > the dropouts, if the space varies, then, the wheels may move a few
> > millimeters in either direction, sitting the wheels off-center. I am
> > curious, how much off center are the wheels? As long as they are
> > straight, if they are a little off, it is no big deal. all you have to
> > do is re-center the brakes, if they are the non disk type. Otherwise,
> > see in which direction the wheel has moved, and then, readjust the
> > cones and nuts, so there is a couple of millimeters more of exposed
> > axle on that side, and a few less on the opposite side.
>
> > Andres
Andrew:
In thinking of my response, I think that it was kind of retarded. Here
is a more likely explanation of what happened. either the cones are of
different lengths, or you have more spacers that go on one side than
the other. A guess,
Andres
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Date: 18 Jul 2007 10:30:52
From: AWN
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
Andres, I thought the same thing at first with regards to axle spacing till
I gave it some thought and AM made me realize that it was impossible. It
ended up being an extra spacer on one side that caused all the confusion.
All is well now.
Thanks,
Andrew.
in article 1184758114.980205.245890@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com,
andresmuro@aol.com at andresmuro@aol.com wrote on 7/18/07 7:28 AM:
> Andrew:
>
> In thinking of my response, I think that it was kind of retarded. Here
> is a more likely explanation of what happened. either the cones are of
> different lengths, or you have more spacers that go on one side than
> the other. A guess,
>
> Andres
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 17:09:38
From: andresmuro@aol.com
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
On Jul 17, 6:48 am, AWN <anix...@cogeco.ca > wrote:
> Andres,
>
> Thanks for your comments. To answer your questions, it is a disc braking
> system so running with them this way isn't an option. As for sitting in the
> frame centered beforehand, yes, the wheel was centered beforehand. I had a
> feeling it had something to do with the axle spacing/centering. Everything
> I read suggests that the protruding axle on either side should match in
> terms of how many threads are exposed. I'm thinking that perhaps there are
> exceptions to this rule and perhaps that's why I have an issue. I wish I
> took my own advice an 'landmarked' the threads before disassembly. As for
> how far the wheel is off center, it's towards the disc-side by about the
> width of the tire (2.3-2.5" I would guess). I guess the name of the game is
> to expose more threads on the side it's favouring right? It seems a stupid
> question and I do apoloigze but my new newborn boy has had us awake for days
> now and the brain isn't always as snappy as it could be.
>
> Thanks.
> Andrew.
>
> in article 1184675122.754839.161...@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com,
> andresm...@aol.com at andresm...@aol.com wrote on 7/17/07 8:25 AM:
>
> > If the wheels were centered before you unassembled the hubs, and know
> > they are off centered, it is very likely that you tightened the cones
> > and nuts slightly off and that now, they are not sitting in the
> > dropouts exactly how they did before. At the end of each axle, there
> > are the nuts with a little free axles space for the wheels to sit on
> > the dropouts, if the space varies, then, the wheels may move a few
> > millimeters in either direction, sitting the wheels off-center. I am
> > curious, how much off center are the wheels? As long as they are
> > straight, if they are a little off, it is no big deal. all you have to
> > do is re-center the brakes, if they are the non disk type. Otherwise,
> > see in which direction the wheel has moved, and then, readjust the
> > cones and nuts, so there is a couple of millimeters more of exposed
> > axle on that side, and a few less on the opposite side.
>
Andrew:
Congrats on your newborn. Yes, to your question. You want to move the
wheel away from the dropout on the discbrake side. So, expose a few
more threads on that side and a few less on the other side.
Andres
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 20:18:46
From: AWN
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
It turned out that I had an extra spacer on one side. I tried flipping the
cones also but I didn't notice much of a difference. Needless to say, the
hub is wonderfull, the wheel is dead nuts center in the frame, and the disc
is also straight as an arrow and centered. It was a happy day in the
basement. After another poster's comments, I thought hard about what moving
the axle orientation would do and unless you have bolts on the outside of
the dropouts also, you will not change the spacing between the two cones
without running the bearings horribly out of adjustment. The key is in the
spacers and getting the cones on the correct sides. Unless someone can
explain it to me how moving the axle will move the wheel in the frame...
Thanks again.
Thanks!
Andrew.
in article 1184717378.541980.140820@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com,
andresmuro@aol.com at andresmuro@aol.com wrote on 7/17/07 8:09 PM:
> Andrew:
>
> Congrats on your newborn. Yes, to your question. You want to move the
> wheel away from the dropout on the discbrake side. So, expose a few
> more threads on that side and a few less on the other side.
>
> Andres
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 05:32:34
From: andresmuro@aol.com
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
On Jul 16, 11:24 pm, AWN <anix...@cogeco.ca > wrote:
> I know this thread has deviated a little and I'm glad to have helped get the
> conversation going. If anyone is still following my original post, I have
> now fully rebuilt all 3 of my hubs (one XT and 2 LX). I'm not sure this
> feedback will help but some things I learned along the way that I would have
> liked to know were:
>
> Keep adjusting the cones until it's absolutely perfect. It took longer than
> I would have liked but they're better setup now than when I purchased the
> bike after tune-up (and they were smooth then). Also, the bearings are so
> damn cheap, replace them - no messing around here. They will never fit
> properly after they ovalize (you won't see this but it will never work). I
> found that by putting a small funnel over the freehub body openning AFTER
> removing the 10mm hex mount and AFTER pulling the dust seal, I was able to
> completely clean all the crap out after about 10 shots of liquid wrench
> (anything will do I'm sure). I run a good amount of compressed air through
> it also (I am looking into the Morningstar 'Hub Buddy' tool for next time).
> I found it helped to rest the freehub body on a white shop towel or similar
> and keep repeating the process till the solvent/lubricant ran through clean
> (keep at it - it's amazing how much crud is left in there). Both bearing
> races were packed with axle/bearing grease (not moly though) and the free
> hub pawls were done with Mobile 1 10W-30. Put more grease than you think
> you need on the races and then drop the bearings in with an old pair of
> tweezers or needle nosed pliers - removal with a magnet works wonders!). I
> found that lifting the freehub up and spinning it by my ear would allow me
> to hear the pawls moving which let me know things were clean (slowly roll
> the body - I don't mean to physically engage the pawls). I also found it
> critical to lock the drive-side of the axle first as the cone nut disappears
> under the freehub openning anyway after the other side it adjusted. I found
> that tightening the cone nut on the bearing so it just touches and then
> backing off about an 1/8th of a rotation on both sides works damn near
> perfectly for my QR mounted Rhinolites (it took a thousand times till I got
> it just right and that seemed to be the best reference even though
> everything I read says closer to 1/4 rotation on both sides and less for
> through axle mounts. I also found it absolutely critical to measure the
> thread count on both sides (this is a good idea before you start to ensure
> alignment later).
>
> The outcome of all this is that I used oil, grease, and penetrating lube
> from my auto shop, I paid .08 per bearing I think, I rethreaded one axle
> (1.0 pitch 10mm if anyone is interested), sanded one hub face down and
> repainted (looks better than before the accident) but otherwise I had no
> issues other than learning curves. Overall, I now have 3 hubs that were
> ready for my parts bin that now run like butter. I had my doubts but let me
> tell you that it was worth it. One hub was so bad it had fully locked up
> and it's now absolutely beautiful. I would consider ceramic bearings if
> rebuilding the hubs on my roadie but I'm not even sure it's worth it.
>
> One question: what is the trick to ensure I am mounting my (*^(*^(*^!!!
> wheel centered in the frame? I have never had this issue before but I'm
> having a real "time" with it (granted, I am picky). I know I need to watch
> the springs and their orientation on the QR and the spacers but what else?
> I must be messing something up...
>
> Thanks for all your help and support! This ng rocks.
> Andrew.
I thought that I replied to this, but it didn't post, so let me try
again. At the end of each axle there is a little bit of space left
where the wheels sit on the dropouts. It is possible that when you
reassembles the hubs, you left a different amount of space at the end
of the axles. See to which side the wheel appears to have moved to.
then try to readjust the cones and nuts so that you leave a little
more free space on that side and a little less space on the other
side. If they have not shifted significantly, leave them as they are
and readjust your brake pads if you don't have disks.
Andres
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 05:25:22
From: andresmuro@aol.com
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
On Jul 16, 11:24 pm, AWN <anix...@cogeco.ca > wrote:
> I know this thread has deviated a little and I'm glad to have helped get the
> conversation going. If anyone is still following my original post, I have
> now fully rebuilt all 3 of my hubs (one XT and 2 LX). I'm not sure this
> feedback will help but some things I learned along the way that I would have
> liked to know were:
>
> Keep adjusting the cones until it's absolutely perfect. It took longer than
> I would have liked but they're better setup now than when I purchased the
> bike after tune-up (and they were smooth then). Also, the bearings are so
> damn cheap, replace them - no messing around here. They will never fit
> properly after they ovalize (you won't see this but it will never work). I
> found that by putting a small funnel over the freehub body openning AFTER
> removing the 10mm hex mount and AFTER pulling the dust seal, I was able to
> completely clean all the crap out after about 10 shots of liquid wrench
> (anything will do I'm sure). I run a good amount of compressed air through
> it also (I am looking into the Morningstar 'Hub Buddy' tool for next time).
> I found it helped to rest the freehub body on a white shop towel or similar
> and keep repeating the process till the solvent/lubricant ran through clean
> (keep at it - it's amazing how much crud is left in there). Both bearing
> races were packed with axle/bearing grease (not moly though) and the free
> hub pawls were done with Mobile 1 10W-30. Put more grease than you think
> you need on the races and then drop the bearings in with an old pair of
> tweezers or needle nosed pliers - removal with a magnet works wonders!). I
> found that lifting the freehub up and spinning it by my ear would allow me
> to hear the pawls moving which let me know things were clean (slowly roll
> the body - I don't mean to physically engage the pawls). I also found it
> critical to lock the drive-side of the axle first as the cone nut disappears
> under the freehub openning anyway after the other side it adjusted. I found
> that tightening the cone nut on the bearing so it just touches and then
> backing off about an 1/8th of a rotation on both sides works damn near
> perfectly for my QR mounted Rhinolites (it took a thousand times till I got
> it just right and that seemed to be the best reference even though
> everything I read says closer to 1/4 rotation on both sides and less for
> through axle mounts. I also found it absolutely critical to measure the
> thread count on both sides (this is a good idea before you start to ensure
> alignment later).
>
> The outcome of all this is that I used oil, grease, and penetrating lube
> from my auto shop, I paid .08 per bearing I think, I rethreaded one axle
> (1.0 pitch 10mm if anyone is interested), sanded one hub face down and
> repainted (looks better than before the accident) but otherwise I had no
> issues other than learning curves. Overall, I now have 3 hubs that were
> ready for my parts bin that now run like butter. I had my doubts but let me
> tell you that it was worth it. One hub was so bad it had fully locked up
> and it's now absolutely beautiful. I would consider ceramic bearings if
> rebuilding the hubs on my roadie but I'm not even sure it's worth it.
>
> One question: what is the trick to ensure I am mounting my (*^(*^(*^!!!
> wheel centered in the frame? I have never had this issue before but I'm
> having a real "time" with it (granted, I am picky). I know I need to watch
> the springs and their orientation on the QR and the spacers but what else?
> I must be messing something up...
>
> Thanks for all your help and support! This ng rocks.
> Andrew.
If the wheels were centered before you unassembled the hubs, and know
they are off centered, it is very likely that you tightened the cones
and nuts slightly off and that now, they are not sitting in the
dropouts exactly how they did before. At the end of each axle, there
are the nuts with a little free axles space for the wheels to sit on
the dropouts, if the space varies, then, the wheels may move a few
millimeters in either direction, sitting the wheels off-center. I am
curious, how much off center are the wheels? As long as they are
straight, if they are a little off, it is no big deal. all you have to
do is re-center the brakes, if they are the non disk type. Otherwise,
see in which direction the wheel has moved, and then, readjust the
cones and nuts, so there is a couple of millimeters more of exposed
axle on that side, and a few less on the opposite side.
Andres
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 08:48:14
From: AWN
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
Andres,
Thanks for your comments. To answer your questions, it is a disc braking
system so running with them this way isn't an option. As for sitting in the
frame centered beforehand, yes, the wheel was centered beforehand. I had a
feeling it had something to do with the axle spacing/centering. Everything
I read suggests that the protruding axle on either side should match in
terms of how many threads are exposed. I'm thinking that perhaps there are
exceptions to this rule and perhaps that's why I have an issue. I wish I
took my own advice an 'landmarked' the threads before disassembly. As for
how far the wheel is off center, it's towards the disc-side by about the
width of the tire (2.3-2.5" I would guess). I guess the name of the game is
to expose more threads on the side it's favouring right? It seems a stupid
question and I do apoloigze but my new newborn boy has had us awake for days
now and the brain isn't always as snappy as it could be.
Thanks.
Andrew.
in article 1184675122.754839.161200@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com,
andresmuro@aol.com at andresmuro@aol.com wrote on 7/17/07 8:25 AM:
> If the wheels were centered before you unassembled the hubs, and know
> they are off centered, it is very likely that you tightened the cones
> and nuts slightly off and that now, they are not sitting in the
> dropouts exactly how they did before. At the end of each axle, there
> are the nuts with a little free axles space for the wheels to sit on
> the dropouts, if the space varies, then, the wheels may move a few
> millimeters in either direction, sitting the wheels off-center. I am
> curious, how much off center are the wheels? As long as they are
> straight, if they are a little off, it is no big deal. all you have to
> do is re-center the brakes, if they are the non disk type. Otherwise,
> see in which direction the wheel has moved, and then, readjust the
> cones and nuts, so there is a couple of millimeters more of exposed
> axle on that side, and a few less on the opposite side.
>
> Andres
|
| | | |
Date: 17 Jul 2007 11:04:02
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
AWN wrote:
> Andres,
>
> Thanks for your comments. To answer your questions, it is a disc braking
> system so running with them this way isn't an option. As for sitting in the
> frame centered beforehand, yes, the wheel was centered beforehand. I had a
> feeling it had something to do with the axle spacing/centering. Everything
> I read suggests that the protruding axle on either side should match in
> terms of how many threads are exposed. I'm thinking that perhaps there are
> exceptions to this rule and perhaps that's why I have an issue. I wish I
> took my own advice an 'landmarked' the threads before disassembly. As for
> how far the wheel is off center, it's towards the disc-side by about the
> width of the tire (2.3-2.5" I would guess). I guess the name of the game is
> to expose more threads on the side it's favouring right? It seems a stupid
> question and I do apoloigze but my new newborn boy has had us awake for days
> now and the brain isn't always as snappy as it could be.
>
> Thanks.
> Andrew.
>
>
>
> in article 1184675122.754839.161200@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com,
> andresmuro@aol.com at andresmuro@aol.com wrote on 7/17/07 8:25 AM:
>
>> If the wheels were centered before you unassembled the hubs, and know
>> they are off centered, it is very likely that you tightened the cones
>> and nuts slightly off and that now, they are not sitting in the
>> dropouts exactly how they did before. At the end of each axle, there
>> are the nuts with a little free axles space for the wheels to sit on
>> the dropouts, if the space varies, then, the wheels may move a few
>> millimeters in either direction, sitting the wheels off-center. I am
>> curious, how much off center are the wheels? As long as they are
>> straight, if they are a little off, it is no big deal. all you have to
>> do is re-center the brakes, if they are the non disk type. Otherwise,
>> see in which direction the wheel has moved, and then, readjust the
>> cones and nuts, so there is a couple of millimeters more of exposed
>> axle on that side, and a few less on the opposite side.
Can't be the problem. There is absolutely no effect from the axle
protruding (or not protruding) into the frame end unless it is long
enough to foul the skewer. Think about that a second.
The skewer clamps its raised/knurled face on the outside of the frame
end. The axle locknuts (which are also raised or knurled) bite into the
end's inside face when the skewer is closed [1].
If you trimmed the axle flush to the locknut face, it would be mildly
inconvenient to center a wheel but perfectly functional.
Professional mechanics always disassemble from the left, leaving the
right side (gear spacing) untouched. A replacement axle set is set up to
match the right side spacing then matched to whatever spacers may be on
the left. Scrambling left and right axle components will make a botch of
your axle spacing - do you recall what was where originally? I suspect
you have moved a spacer from one side to the other or possibly swapped a
cone (Shimano are different side to side) laterally.
[1] In fact, some newer axle designs with broad flush faces will slip in
a traditional horizontal end for that very reason- they are neither
raised nor knurled. Without such, the skewer's cam develops insufficient
force to hold the wheel under pedal pressure.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | | |
Date: 17 Jul 2007 15:01:57
From: AWN
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
I never thought that I may have physically swapped the cones. Good call -
that must be the ticket. Next time I'm going to ensure that all the
components are in alignment/order on a zip tie or the QR first. I was going
to do this and I thought to myself... How hard can it be?? Geesh...
Thanks.
Andrew.
in article 139pq3rfbj3cn2d@corp.supernews.com, A Muzi at am@yellowjersey.org
wrote on 7/17/07 12:04 PM:
> Can't be the problem. There is absolutely no effect from the axle
> protruding (or not protruding) into the frame end unless it is long
> enough to foul the skewer. Think about that a second.
>
> The skewer clamps its raised/knurled face on the outside of the frame
> end. The axle locknuts (which are also raised or knurled) bite into the
> end's inside face when the skewer is closed [1].
>
> If you trimmed the axle flush to the locknut face, it would be mildly
> inconvenient to center a wheel but perfectly functional.
>
> Professional mechanics always disassemble from the left, leaving the
> right side (gear spacing) untouched. A replacement axle set is set up to
> match the right side spacing then matched to whatever spacers may be on
> the left. Scrambling left and right axle components will make a botch of
> your axle spacing - do you recall what was where originally? I suspect
> you have moved a spacer from one side to the other or possibly swapped a
> cone (Shimano are different side to side) laterally.
>
> [1] In fact, some newer axle designs with broad flush faces will slip in
> a traditional horizontal end for that very reason- they are neither
> raised nor knurled. Without such, the skewer's cam develops insufficient
> force to hold the wheel under pedal pressure.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | | | |
Date: 17 Jul 2007 15:39:34
From: dvt
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
AWN wrote:
> I never thought that I may have physically swapped the cones. Good call -
> that must be the ticket. Next time I'm going to ensure that all the
> components are in alignment/order on a zip tie or the QR first.
Andy's solution works best, IMO:
> A Muzi wrote:
>> Professional mechanics always disassemble from the left, leaving the
>> right side (gear spacing) untouched.
If you keep all the right-side pieces on the axle, you never have to
worry about mixing up left and right parts.
--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu
|
| |
Date: 17 Jul 2007 04:49:20
From: Chris Nelson
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
On Jul 17, 1:24 am, AWN <anix...@cogeco.ca > wrote:
> One question: what is the trick to ensure I am mounting my (*^(*^(*^!!!
> wheel centered in the frame? I have never had this issue before but I'm
> having a real "time" with it (granted, I am picky). I know I need to watch
> the springs and their orientation on the QR and the spacers but what else?
> I must be messing something up...
It's possible your wheel is not dished correctly or your frame is
bent. The wheel should just drop in(vertical dropout assumption here)
and lineup correctly without fuss.
Chris
|
| | |
Date: 17 Jul 2007 08:41:39
From: AWN
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
Chris,
The frame is straight as an arrow (this isn't on the bike that was crashed).
As for the wheel, it was fine before I rebuilt the hub so I think maybe I
messed up the spacing. It seems to me like the disc side is supposed to
have more spacers than the drive side (either way, I flipped the nuts and
retainers on either side and still came up off center).
Thanks for your suggestions.
Andrew.
in article 1184672960.103585.192690@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com, Chris
Nelson at smilin321@hotmail.com wrote on 7/17/07 7:49 AM:
> On Jul 17, 1:24 am, AWN <anix...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
>> One question: what is the trick to ensure I am mounting my (*^(*^(*^!!!
>> wheel centered in the frame? I have never had this issue before but I'm
>> having a real "time" with it (granted, I am picky). I know I need to watch
>> the springs and their orientation on the QR and the spacers but what else?
>> I must be messing something up...
>
> It's possible your wheel is not dished correctly or your frame is
> bent. The wheel should just drop in(vertical dropout assumption here)
> and lineup correctly without fuss.
>
> Chris
>
|
| |
Date: 01 Jul 2007 22:26:26
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
On Jul 1, 12:42 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net > wrote:
> A Muzi wrote:
> >>>> datakoll wrote:
> >>>>> a few pits here and there is no big deal.
> >>>>> the castrol marine will swaqllow the mess for a year or more
> >>>>> cracked bearings are a big deal as is torn or cracked hub surfaces-bin
> >>>>> toss!!!
> >>>>> the bearing race anround and thru small pits, weras another trail/race
> >>>>> path wears well with castrol and 25 bearings without the bearings
> >>>>> showing excessive distress from that journey.
> >>>>> new cones are always a probability for long hub wear but not
> >>>>> absolutely necessary
> >>>>> if the cones have pits but the hubs are ok, new bearings and grease,
> >>>>> screwed back together will run well until the next repack WHEN THE NEW
> >>>>> CONES ARE ON HAND.
>
> > jim beam wrote:
> >>>> but running pitted cones is disgusting. not only are they rough, they
> >>>> can break down completely at any moment. then what? walk?
> >>>> this is why it's best to buy higher end componentry whenever possible.
> >>>> shimano /do/ differentiate product quality every step of the way. d-a
> >>>> lasts longer than ultegra lasts longer than 105.
>
> >> landotter wrote:
> >>> Not really. Once you get to 105, it's mainly about weight. Bearings
> >>> are identical or close.
> >>> I'd never think of pissing away for more than
> >>> 105 kit.
> >>> The only thing DA I own are some vintage chrome cable clamps.
> >>> Man, do they clamp! I've never seen cables clamped so efficiently! The
> >>> only thing to watch out for with lower end Shimano are the hubs--
> >>> repack first thing with 25 grade balls and you're good to go. I've got
> >>> a Mavic/2200, meaning the hubs are crapper than Sora, wheelset that
> >>> turns like buttah after 10K--but you bet your ass I serviced the hubs
> >>> first thing. Mind, I'm not racing on such kit.
>
> > jim beam wrote:
> >> the "close" thing is more than arguable - there are clear quality
> >> differences.
> >> then how can you speak from experience? i mean, it's not like
> >> "pissing away" expresses any prejudice on the subject...
> >> if they're like the older ones i've seen, they have case hardened
> >> cones. that means "crap" and they spall like crazy. no amount of
> >> repack or bearing ball changes can change that.
>
> > I don't know about Shimano's cone material and hardening processes
> > across models for a fact but I suspect that surface finish is the bulk
> > of difference. Many riders who prepped their mew Deore, 105, Normandy
> > and similar mid-range hubs well when new, then took a moment to spin the
> > axle in their fingers at each tire change and rebuilt on a regular basis
> > achieve very long service life. It is possible, even common, to end
> > with a much smoother polished bearing surface at a few years. Requires
> > only a minimum investment of prep, lube and maintenance.
>
> > Surely these things fail. But factory lubrication/adjustment is so
> > dismal that we see ruined hub bearings at well under a year commonly. I
> > can't argue the larger case, but riders who own midrange hubs may do
> > well to throw $2 worth of good balls and plenty of suitable grease into
> > a clean hub.
>
> high spherodicity bearing balls can't prevent cheap case hardened cones
> from spalling.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
eat bark
cones micro spall, the hubs run on thru 3-4 rebuilds as above.
one hopes your obfuscations will not confuse the questioner.
ert out
|
| | |
Date: 01 Jul 2007 15:37:37
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
datakoll wrote:
> On Jul 1, 12:42 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> A Muzi wrote:
>>>>>> datakoll wrote:
>>>>>>> a few pits here and there is no big deal.
>>>>>>> the castrol marine will swaqllow the mess for a year or more
>>>>>>> cracked bearings are a big deal as is torn or cracked hub surfaces-bin
>>>>>>> toss!!!
>>>>>>> the bearing race anround and thru small pits, weras another trail/race
>>>>>>> path wears well with castrol and 25 bearings without the bearings
>>>>>>> showing excessive distress from that journey.
>>>>>>> new cones are always a probability for long hub wear but not
>>>>>>> absolutely necessary
>>>>>>> if the cones have pits but the hubs are ok, new bearings and grease,
>>>>>>> screwed back together will run well until the next repack WHEN THE NEW
>>>>>>> CONES ARE ON HAND.
>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>>>> but running pitted cones is disgusting. not only are they rough, they
>>>>>> can break down completely at any moment. then what? walk?
>>>>>> this is why it's best to buy higher end componentry whenever possible.
>>>>>> shimano /do/ differentiate product quality every step of the way. d-a
>>>>>> lasts longer than ultegra lasts longer than 105.
>>>> landotter wrote:
>>>>> Not really. Once you get to 105, it's mainly about weight. Bearings
>>>>> are identical or close.
>>>>> I'd never think of pissing away for more than
>>>>> 105 kit.
>>>>> The only thing DA I own are some vintage chrome cable clamps.
>>>>> Man, do they clamp! I've never seen cables clamped so efficiently! The
>>>>> only thing to watch out for with lower end Shimano are the hubs--
>>>>> repack first thing with 25 grade balls and you're good to go. I've got
>>>>> a Mavic/2200, meaning the hubs are crapper than Sora, wheelset that
>>>>> turns like buttah after 10K--but you bet your ass I serviced the hubs
>>>>> first thing. Mind, I'm not racing on such kit.
>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>> the "close" thing is more than arguable - there are clear quality
>>>> differences.
>>>> then how can you speak from experience? i mean, it's not like
>>>> "pissing away" expresses any prejudice on the subject...
>>>> if they're like the older ones i've seen, they have case hardened
>>>> cones. that means "crap" and they spall like crazy. no amount of
>>>> repack or bearing ball changes can change that.
>>> I don't know about Shimano's cone material and hardening processes
>>> across models for a fact but I suspect that surface finish is the bulk
>>> of difference. Many riders who prepped their mew Deore, 105, Normandy
>>> and similar mid-range hubs well when new, then took a moment to spin the
>>> axle in their fingers at each tire change and rebuilt on a regular basis
>>> achieve very long service life. It is possible, even common, to end
>>> with a much smoother polished bearing surface at a few years. Requires
>>> only a minimum investment of prep, lube and maintenance.
>>> Surely these things fail. But factory lubrication/adjustment is so
>>> dismal that we see ruined hub bearings at well under a year commonly. I
>>> can't argue the larger case, but riders who own midrange hubs may do
>>> well to throw $2 worth of good balls and plenty of suitable grease into
>>> a clean hub.
>> high spherodicity bearing balls can't prevent cheap case hardened cones
>> from spalling.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> eat bark
> cones micro spall,
and spalling is fatigue, not abrasion. no number of rebuilds, re-lubes,
chicken sacrifices or denials can change that. best solution is to
invest in bearings that take 30k or more of fatigue as opposed to 3k.
> the hubs run on thru 3-4 rebuilds as above.
> one hopes your obfuscations will not confuse the questioner.
> ert out
>
|
| | | |
Date: 17 Jul 2007 01:24:31
From: AWN
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
I know this thread has deviated a little and I'm glad to have helped get the
conversation going. If anyone is still following my original post, I have
now fully rebuilt all 3 of my hubs (one XT and 2 LX). I'm not sure this
feedback will help but some things I learned along the way that I would have
liked to know were:
Keep adjusting the cones until it's absolutely perfect. It took longer than
I would have liked but they're better setup now than when I purchased the
bike after tune-up (and they were smooth then). Also, the bearings are so
damn cheap, replace them - no messing around here. They will never fit
properly after they ovalize (you won't see this but it will never work). I
found that by putting a small funnel over the freehub body openning AFTER
removing the 10mm hex mount and AFTER pulling the dust seal, I was able to
completely clean all the crap out after about 10 shots of liquid wrench
(anything will do I'm sure). I run a good amount of compressed air through
it also (I am looking into the Morningstar 'Hub Buddy' tool for next time).
I found it helped to rest the freehub body on a white shop towel or similar
and keep repeating the process till the solvent/lubricant ran through clean
(keep at it - it's amazing how much crud is left in there). Both bearing
races were packed with axle/bearing grease (not moly though) and the free
hub pawls were done with Mobile 1 10W-30. Put more grease than you think
you need on the races and then drop the bearings in with an old pair of
tweezers or needle nosed pliers - removal with a magnet works wonders!). I
found that lifting the freehub up and spinning it by my ear would allow me
to hear the pawls moving which let me know things were clean (slowly roll
the body - I don't mean to physically engage the pawls). I also found it
critical to lock the drive-side of the axle first as the cone nut disappears
under the freehub openning anyway after the other side it adjusted. I found
that tightening the cone nut on the bearing so it just touches and then
backing off about an 1/8th of a rotation on both sides works damn near
perfectly for my QR mounted Rhinolites (it took a thousand times till I got
it just right and that seemed to be the best reference even though
everything I read says closer to 1/4 rotation on both sides and less for
through axle mounts. I also found it absolutely critical to measure the
thread count on both sides (this is a good idea before you start to ensure
alignment later).
The outcome of all this is that I used oil, grease, and penetrating lube
from my auto shop, I paid .08 per bearing I think, I rethreaded one axle
(1.0 pitch 10mm if anyone is interested), sanded one hub face down and
repainted (looks better than before the accident) but otherwise I had no
issues other than learning curves. Overall, I now have 3 hubs that were
ready for my parts bin that now run like butter. I had my doubts but let me
tell you that it was worth it. One hub was so bad it had fully locked up
and it's now absolutely beautiful. I would consider ceramic bearings if
rebuilding the hubs on my roadie but I'm not even sure it's worth it.
One question: what is the trick to ensure I am mounting my (*^(*^(*^!!!
wheel centered in the frame? I have never had this issue before but I'm
having a real "time" with it (granted, I am picky). I know I need to watch
the springs and their orientation on the QR and the spacers but what else?
I must be messing something up...
Thanks for all your help and support! This ng rocks.
Andrew.
|
| | | | |
Date: 17 Jul 2007 09:19:17
From: Ned Mantei
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
In article <C2C1CACE.19F7C%anixon1@cogeco.ca >, AWN <anixon1@cogeco.ca>
wrote:
> I know this thread has deviated a little and I'm glad to have helped get the
> conversation going. If anyone is still following my original post, I have
> now fully rebuilt all 3 of my hubs (one XT and 2 LX). I'm not sure this
> feedback will help but some things I learned along the way that I would have
> liked to know were:
>
> Keep adjusting the cones until it's absolutely perfect. It took longer than
> I would have liked but they're better setup now than when I purchased the
> bike after tune-up (and they were smooth then).
I also used to need many tries to get the bearing adjustment right. Then
I read Sheldon Brown's suggestion to use two wrenches on the locknuts.
Initially get the adjustment very approximate, but somewhat loose. Then
tighten both locknuts at the same time, just a 16th of a turn or so at a
time. This tightens the bearing in a controlled fashion. Stop when the
adjustment is perfect (= slight play for wheels with quick release--the
QR will further compress the bearing).
Ned
|
| | | | | |
Date: 17 Jul 2007 18:40:36
From: Steve Gravrock
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
On 2007-07-17, Ned Mantei <mantei@cell.biol.ethz.ch > wrote:
> I also used to need many tries to get the bearing adjustment right. Then
> I read Sheldon Brown's suggestion to use two wrenches on the locknuts.
> Initially get the adjustment very approximate, but somewhat loose. Then
> tighten both locknuts at the same time, just a 16th of a turn or so at a
> time. This tightens the bearing in a controlled fashion. Stop when the
> adjustment is perfect (= slight play for wheels with quick release--the
> QR will further compress the bearing).
The Park Tool website outlines an approach that I've found particularly
useful:
<http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=105 >, and specifically
<http://www.parktool.com/images_inc/repair_help/hubadj_play.jpg >
Assuming that you've disassembled from the left, clamp the right side
of the hub in the left dropout so that the wheel sits outside the frame.
This both prevents the right locknut from turning and compresses the
axle just like in normal use while leaving the left cone and locknut
freely accessible. Adjust the cone so that you've just barely
eliminated any play, tighten down the locknut, and you're done. I get
a perfect adjustment every time with a minimum of time and effort.
You may need to use the rear dropout for both front and rear wheels.
My front dropouts are too thin for that technique to work.
Sheldon Brown describes a similar approach at
<http://sheldonbrown.com/cone-adjustment.html > (search for "Special
tool for rapid cone adjustment under load").
|
| |
Date: 01 Jul 2007 09:40:59
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
On Jul 1, 11:22 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net > wrote:
> landotter wrote:
> > On Jun 30, 8:40 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> >> landotter wrote:
> >>> On Jun 30, 5:39 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> >>>> datakoll wrote:
> >>>>> a few pits here and there is no big deal.
> >>>>> the castrol marine will swaqllow the mess for a year or more
> >>>>> cracked bearings are a big deal as is torn or cracked hub surfaces-bin
> >>>>> toss!!!
> >>>>> the bearing race anround and thru small pits, weras another trail/race
> >>>>> path wears well with castrol and 25 bearings without the bearings
> >>>>> showing excessive distress from that journey.
> >>>>> new cones are always a probability for long hub wear but not
> >>>>> absolutely necessary
> >>>>> if the cones have pits but the hubs are ok, new bearings and grease,
> >>>>> screwed back together will run well until the next repack WHEN THE NEW
> >>>>> CONES ARE ON HAND.
> >>>> but running pitted cones is disgusting. not only are they rough, they
> >>>> can break down completely at any moment. then what? walk?
> >>>> this is why it's best to buy higher end componentry whenever possible.
> >>>> shimano /do/ differentiate product quality every step of the way. d-a
> >>>> lasts longer than ultegra lasts longer than 105.
> >>> Not really. Once you get to 105, it's mainly about weight. Bearings
> >>> are identical or close.
> >> the "close" thing is more than arguable - there are clear quality
> >> differences.
>
> >>> I'd never think of pissing away for more than
> >>> 105 kit.
> >> then how can you speak from experience? i mean, it's not like "pissing
> >> away" expresses any prejudice on the subject...
>
> > This is from a guy that swears by overpriced gimmicky wheels. Oy.
>
> i have taken the trouble to buy and long-term test. what have you done
> to qualify to comment?
>
>
>
>
>
> > Admittedly, I've only ridden 105 kit long term. Other than
> > consumables, I had zero complaints. The stuff is so decent now that
> > you'll replace most stuff for cosmetic reasons before it wears out.
> > If you're so awesome that you kill the bushings on a 105 mech, it's
> > pretty inexpensive to replace. Or what if you crash or your bike falls
> > over? Not a single reason to use DA on a civilian's bike these days. I
> > wouldn't touch Shimano cranks altogether. Square taper forever.
>
> >>> The only thing DA I own are some vintage chrome cable clamps.
> >>> Man, do they clamp! I've never seen cables clamped so efficiently! The
> >>> only thing to watch out for with lower end Shimano are the hubs--
> >>> repack first thing with 25 grade balls and you're good to go. I've got
> >>> a Mavic/2200, meaning the hubs are crapper than Sora, wheelset that
> >>> turns like buttah after 10K--but you bet your ass I serviced the hubs
> >>> first thing. Mind, I'm not racing on such kit.
> >> if they're like the older ones i've seen, they have case hardened cones.
> >> that means "crap" and they spall like crazy. no amount of repack or
> >> bearing ball changes can change that.
>
> > 10k and nada. I don't feel like disassembling to show you wrong again,
>
> what a surprise! if you can show me through-hardened machined cones,
> i'll agree with you. if you show me black case hardened crap, you'll
> have been blowing smoke.
>
> > so you'll have to take me at my word. Not as smooth as 105+, but still
> > in the buttery range. If you don't service them first thing, they will
> > pit in a thousand. I've seen this, and it's how I decided to service
> > my 2nd pair before riding. How many have you repacked and tested your
> > theory on?
>
> bottom line, i don't believe you have 10k on case-hardened cones.
I have 10K on 2200 hubs. Period. No spalling. Good as new. As for you:
/plonk
|
| |
Date: 01 Jul 2007 10:13:27
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
On Jul 1, 6:01 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Jun 30, 10:24 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 30, 8:40 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>
> > > landotter wrote:
> > > > On Jun 30, 5:39 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> > > >> datakoll wrote:
> > > >>> a few pits here and there is no big deal.
> > > >>> the castrol marine will swaqllow the mess for a year or more
> > > >>> cracked bearings are a big deal as is torn or cracked hub surfaces-bin
> > > >>> toss!!!
> > > >>> the bearing race anround and thru small pits, weras another trail/race
> > > >>> path wears well with castrol and 25 bearings without the bearings
> > > >>> showing excessive distress from that journey.
> > > >>> new cones are always a probability for long hub wear but not
> > > >>> absolutely necessary
> > > >>> if the cones have pits but the hubs are ok, new bearings and grease,
> > > >>> screwed back together will run well until the next repack WHEN THE NEW
> > > >>> CONES ARE ON HAND.
> > > >> but running pitted cones is disgusting. not only are they rough, they
> > > >> can break down completely at any moment. then what? walk?
>
> > > >> this is why it's best to buy higher end componentry whenever possible.
> > > >> shimano /do/ differentiate product quality every step of the way. d-a
> > > >> lasts longer than ultegra lasts longer than 105.
>
> > > > Not really. Once you get to 105, it's mainly about weight. Bearings
> > > > are identical or close.
>
> > > the "close" thing is more than arguable - there are clear quality
> > > differences.
>
> > > > I'd never think of pissing away for more than
> > > > 105 kit.
>
> > > then how can you speak from experience? i mean, it's not like "pissing
> > > away" expresses any prejudice on the subject...
>
> > This is from a guy that swears by overpriced gimmicky wheels. Oy.
>
> > Admittedly, I've only ridden 105 kit long term. Other than
> > consumables, I had zero complaints. The stuff is so decent now that
> > you'll replace most stuff for cosmetic reasons before it wears out.
> > If you're so awesome that you kill the bushings on a 105 mech, it's
> > pretty inexpensive to replace. Or what if you crash or your bike falls
> > over? Not a single reason to use DA on a civilian's bike these days. I
> > wouldn't touch Shimano cranks altogether. Square taper forever.
>
> > > > The only thing DA I own are some vintage chrome cable clamps.
> > > > Man, do they clamp! I've never seen cables clamped so efficiently! The
> > > > only thing to watch out for with lower end Shimano are the hubs--
> > > > repack first thing with 25 grade balls and you're good to go. I've got
> > > > a Mavic/2200, meaning the hubs are crapper than Sora, wheelset that
> > > > turns like buttah after 10K--but you bet your ass I serviced the hubs
> > > > first thing. Mind, I'm not racing on such kit.
>
> > > if they're like the older ones i've seen, they have case hardened cones.
> > > that means "crap" and they spall like crazy. no amount of repack or
> > > bearing ball changes can change that.
>
> > 10k and nada. I don't feel like disassembling to show you wrong again,
> > so you'll have to take me at my word. Not as smooth as 105+, but still
> > in the buttery range. If you don't service them first thing, they will
> > pit in a thousand. I've seen this, and it's how I decided to service
> > my 2nd pair before riding. How many have you repacked and tested your
> > theory on?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> who me? gimmick? tank! abt 8 years + 10 3spd. deore's top appears
> longer wearing than lesser priced units. softer metals are better?
> archaic.
> yeah. taking the units apart and readjusting is obligatory.
> nashbar jaws pedals are run haresay: 8 for a dollar. stocking the bin
> with spares is basic caws after 2000 miles, DOA. hubs shatter.
> spin the axle spin the axle. last heard 50 years ago.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
the theory? 3 rebuilds for deore rear hubs HD touring loads on a road
bike at 2-3000 miles each minus 20% for accuracy 4 max.
this indicates one well maintained 760 should last a lifetime 'under'
normal conditions.
think about that! i wonder how many 760's shim sells worldwide. here's
a unit made to last a lifetime not generate repeat sales.
when you see the accountants at the forge, shoot them.
|
| |
Date: 01 Jul 2007 10:01:30
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
On Jun 30, 10:24 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jun 30, 8:40 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > landotter wrote:
> > > On Jun 30, 5:39 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> > >> datakoll wrote:
> > >>> a few pits here and there is no big deal.
> > >>> the castrol marine will swaqllow the mess for a year or more
> > >>> cracked bearings are a big deal as is torn or cracked hub surfaces-bin
> > >>> toss!!!
> > >>> the bearing race anround and thru small pits, weras another trail/race
> > >>> path wears well with castrol and 25 bearings without the bearings
> > >>> showing excessive distress from that journey.
> > >>> new cones are always a probability for long hub wear but not
> > >>> absolutely necessary
> > >>> if the cones have pits but the hubs are ok, new bearings and grease,
> > >>> screwed back together will run well until the next repack WHEN THE NEW
> > >>> CONES ARE ON HAND.
> > >> but running pitted cones is disgusting. not only are they rough, they
> > >> can break down completely at any moment. then what? walk?
>
> > >> this is why it's best to buy higher end componentry whenever possible.
> > >> shimano /do/ differentiate product quality every step of the way. d-a
> > >> lasts longer than ultegra lasts longer than 105.
>
> > > Not really. Once you get to 105, it's mainly about weight. Bearings
> > > are identical or close.
>
> > the "close" thing is more than arguable - there are clear quality
> > differences.
>
> > > I'd never think of pissing away for more than
> > > 105 kit.
>
> > then how can you speak from experience? i mean, it's not like "pissing
> > away" expresses any prejudice on the subject...
>
> This is from a guy that swears by overpriced gimmicky wheels. Oy.
>
> Admittedly, I've only ridden 105 kit long term. Other than
> consumables, I had zero complaints. The stuff is so decent now that
> you'll replace most stuff for cosmetic reasons before it wears out.
> If you're so awesome that you kill the bushings on a 105 mech, it's
> pretty inexpensive to replace. Or what if you crash or your bike falls
> over? Not a single reason to use DA on a civilian's bike these days. I
> wouldn't touch Shimano cranks altogether. Square taper forever.
>
>
>
> > > The only thing DA I own are some vintage chrome cable clamps.
> > > Man, do they clamp! I've never seen cables clamped so efficiently! The
> > > only thing to watch out for with lower end Shimano are the hubs--
> > > repack first thing with 25 grade balls and you're good to go. I've got
> > > a Mavic/2200, meaning the hubs are crapper than Sora, wheelset that
> > > turns like buttah after 10K--but you bet your ass I serviced the hubs
> > > first thing. Mind, I'm not racing on such kit.
>
> > if they're like the older ones i've seen, they have case hardened cones.
> > that means "crap" and they spall like crazy. no amount of repack or
> > bearing ball changes can change that.
>
> 10k and nada. I don't feel like disassembling to show you wrong again,
> so you'll have to take me at my word. Not as smooth as 105+, but still
> in the buttery range. If you don't service them first thing, they will
> pit in a thousand. I've seen this, and it's how I decided to service
> my 2nd pair before riding. How many have you repacked and tested your
> theory on?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
who me? gimmick? tank! abt 8 years + 10 3spd. deore's top appears
longer wearing than lesser priced units. softer metals are better?
archaic.
yeah. taking the units apart and readjusting is obligatory.
nashbar jaws pedals are run haresay: 8 for a dollar. stocking the bin
with spares is basic caws after 2000 miles, DOA. hubs shatter.
spin the axle spin the axle. last heard 50 years ago.
|
| |
Date: 30 Jun 2007 19:24:03
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
On Jun 30, 8:40 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net > wrote:
> landotter wrote:
> > On Jun 30, 5:39 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> >> datakoll wrote:
> >>> a few pits here and there is no big deal.
> >>> the castrol marine will swaqllow the mess for a year or more
> >>> cracked bearings are a big deal as is torn or cracked hub surfaces-bin
> >>> toss!!!
> >>> the bearing race anround and thru small pits, weras another trail/race
> >>> path wears well with castrol and 25 bearings without the bearings
> >>> showing excessive distress from that journey.
> >>> new cones are always a probability for long hub wear but not
> >>> absolutely necessary
> >>> if the cones have pits but the hubs are ok, new bearings and grease,
> >>> screwed back together will run well until the next repack WHEN THE NEW
> >>> CONES ARE ON HAND.
> >> but running pitted cones is disgusting. not only are they rough, they
> >> can break down completely at any moment. then what? walk?
>
> >> this is why it's best to buy higher end componentry whenever possible.
> >> shimano /do/ differentiate product quality every step of the way. d-a
> >> lasts longer than ultegra lasts longer than 105.
>
> > Not really. Once you get to 105, it's mainly about weight. Bearings
> > are identical or close.
>
> the "close" thing is more than arguable - there are clear quality
> differences.
>
> > I'd never think of pissing away for more than
> > 105 kit.
>
> then how can you speak from experience? i mean, it's not like "pissing
> away" expresses any prejudice on the subject...
This is from a guy that swears by overpriced gimmicky wheels. Oy.
Admittedly, I've only ridden 105 kit long term. Other than
consumables, I had zero complaints. The stuff is so decent now that
you'll replace most stuff for cosmetic reasons before it wears out.
If you're so awesome that you kill the bushings on a 105 mech, it's
pretty inexpensive to replace. Or what if you crash or your bike falls
over? Not a single reason to use DA on a civilian's bike these days. I
wouldn't touch Shimano cranks altogether. Square taper forever.
>
> > The only thing DA I own are some vintage chrome cable clamps.
> > Man, do they clamp! I've never seen cables clamped so efficiently! The
> > only thing to watch out for with lower end Shimano are the hubs--
> > repack first thing with 25 grade balls and you're good to go. I've got
> > a Mavic/2200, meaning the hubs are crapper than Sora, wheelset that
> > turns like buttah after 10K--but you bet your ass I serviced the hubs
> > first thing. Mind, I'm not racing on such kit.
>
> if they're like the older ones i've seen, they have case hardened cones.
> that means "crap" and they spall like crazy. no amount of repack or
> bearing ball changes can change that.
10k and nada. I don't feel like disassembling to show you wrong again,
so you'll have to take me at my word. Not as smooth as 105+, but still
in the buttery range. If you don't service them first thing, they will
pit in a thousand. I've seen this, and it's how I decided to service
my 2nd pair before riding. How many have you repacked and tested your
theory on?
|
| | |
Date: 01 Jul 2007 09:22:13
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
landotter wrote:
> On Jun 30, 8:40 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> landotter wrote:
>>> On Jun 30, 5:39 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>> datakoll wrote:
>>>>> a few pits here and there is no big deal.
>>>>> the castrol marine will swaqllow the mess for a year or more
>>>>> cracked bearings are a big deal as is torn or cracked hub surfaces-bin
>>>>> toss!!!
>>>>> the bearing race anround and thru small pits, weras another trail/race
>>>>> path wears well with castrol and 25 bearings without the bearings
>>>>> showing excessive distress from that journey.
>>>>> new cones are always a probability for long hub wear but not
>>>>> absolutely necessary
>>>>> if the cones have pits but the hubs are ok, new bearings and grease,
>>>>> screwed back together will run well until the next repack WHEN THE NEW
>>>>> CONES ARE ON HAND.
>>>> but running pitted cones is disgusting. not only are they rough, they
>>>> can break down completely at any moment. then what? walk?
>>>> this is why it's best to buy higher end componentry whenever possible.
>>>> shimano /do/ differentiate product quality every step of the way. d-a
>>>> lasts longer than ultegra lasts longer than 105.
>>> Not really. Once you get to 105, it's mainly about weight. Bearings
>>> are identical or close.
>> the "close" thing is more than arguable - there are clear quality
>> differences.
>>
>>> I'd never think of pissing away for more than
>>> 105 kit.
>> then how can you speak from experience? i mean, it's not like "pissing
>> away" expresses any prejudice on the subject...
>
> This is from a guy that swears by overpriced gimmicky wheels. Oy.
i have taken the trouble to buy and long-term test. what have you done
to qualify to comment?
>
> Admittedly, I've only ridden 105 kit long term. Other than
> consumables, I had zero complaints. The stuff is so decent now that
> you'll replace most stuff for cosmetic reasons before it wears out.
> If you're so awesome that you kill the bushings on a 105 mech, it's
> pretty inexpensive to replace. Or what if you crash or your bike falls
> over? Not a single reason to use DA on a civilian's bike these days. I
> wouldn't touch Shimano cranks altogether. Square taper forever.
>
>
>>> The only thing DA I own are some vintage chrome cable clamps.
>>> Man, do they clamp! I've never seen cables clamped so efficiently! The
>>> only thing to watch out for with lower end Shimano are the hubs--
>>> repack first thing with 25 grade balls and you're good to go. I've got
>>> a Mavic/2200, meaning the hubs are crapper than Sora, wheelset that
>>> turns like buttah after 10K--but you bet your ass I serviced the hubs
>>> first thing. Mind, I'm not racing on such kit.
>> if they're like the older ones i've seen, they have case hardened cones.
>> that means "crap" and they spall like crazy. no amount of repack or
>> bearing ball changes can change that.
>
> 10k and nada. I don't feel like disassembling to show you wrong again,
what a surprise! if you can show me through-hardened machined cones,
i'll agree with you. if you show me black case hardened crap, you'll
have been blowing smoke.
> so you'll have to take me at my word. Not as smooth as 105+, but still
> in the buttery range. If you don't service them first thing, they will
> pit in a thousand. I've seen this, and it's how I decided to service
> my 2nd pair before riding. How many have you repacked and tested your
> theory on?
bottom line, i don't believe you have 10k on case-hardened cones.
|
| |
Date: 01 Jul 2007 02:03:34
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
On Jun 30, 6:39 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net > wrote:
> datakoll wrote:
> > a few pits here and there is no big deal.
> > the castrol marine will swaqllow the mess for a year or more
> > cracked bearings are a big deal as is torn or cracked hub surfaces-bin
> > toss!!!
> > the bearing race anround and thru small pits, weras another trail/race
> > path wears well with castrol and 25 bearings without the bearings
> > showing excessive distress from that journey.
> > new cones are always a probability for long hub wear but not
> > absolutely necessary
> > if the cones have pits but the hubs are ok, new bearings and grease,
> > screwed back together will run well until the next repack WHEN THE NEW
> > CONES ARE ON HAND.
>
> but running pitted cones is disgusting. not only are they rough, they
> can break down completely at any moment. then what? walk?
>
> this is why it's best to buy higher end componentry whenever possible.
> shimano /do/ differentiate product quality every step of the way. d-a
> lasts longer than ultegra lasts longer than 105, etc. it's more than
> skin deep. continued replacement of cheap parts seems a waste of time
> to me.
you rocket science plus no see forest for trees
bicycles exist in the bicycle market from the design inherent
indestructibility.
these are your thoughts
confront your reality
eat bark
|
| | |
Date: 01 Jul 2007 12:36:30
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
datakoll wrote:
> On Jun 30, 6:39 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> datakoll wrote:
>>> a few pits here and there is no big deal.
>>> the castrol marine will swaqllow the mess for a year or more
>>> cracked bearings are a big deal as is torn or cracked hub surfaces-bin
>>> toss!!!
>>> the bearing race anround and thru small pits, weras another trail/race
>>> path wears well with castrol and 25 bearings without the bearings
>>> showing excessive distress from that journey.
>>> new cones are always a probability for long hub wear but not
>>> absolutely necessary
>>> if the cones have pits but the hubs are ok, new bearings and grease,
>>> screwed back together will run well until the next repack WHEN THE NEW
>>> CONES ARE ON HAND.
>> but running pitted cones is disgusting. not only are they rough, they
>> can break down completely at any moment. then what? walk?
>>
>> this is why it's best to buy higher end componentry whenever possible.
>> shimano /do/ differentiate product quality every step of the way. d-a
>> lasts longer than ultegra lasts longer than 105, etc. it's more than
>> skin deep. continued replacement of cheap parts seems a waste of time
>> to me.
>
> you rocket science plus no see forest for trees
no, i simply don't live in an agrarian commune that regards trying to
make silk purses out of sows ears as meritorious.
rocket science suggestion: use good stuff. redeploy time saving for
chick chasing. [r]evolution.
> bicycles exist in the bicycle market from the design inherent
> indestructibility.
> these are your thoughts
> confront your reality
> eat bark
>
|
| |
Date: 01 Jul 2007 00:35:16
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
On Jun 30, 5:39 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net > wrote:
> datakoll wrote:
> > a few pits here and there is no big deal.
> > the castrol marine will swaqllow the mess for a year or more
> > cracked bearings are a big deal as is torn or cracked hub surfaces-bin
> > toss!!!
> > the bearing race anround and thru small pits, weras another trail/race
> > path wears well with castrol and 25 bearings without the bearings
> > showing excessive distress from that journey.
> > new cones are always a probability for long hub wear but not
> > absolutely necessary
> > if the cones have pits but the hubs are ok, new bearings and grease,
> > screwed back together will run well until the next repack WHEN THE NEW
> > CONES ARE ON HAND.
>
> but running pitted cones is disgusting. not only are they rough, they
> can break down completely at any moment. then what? walk?
>
> this is why it's best to buy higher end componentry whenever possible.
> shimano /do/ differentiate product quality every step of the way. d-a
> lasts longer than ultegra lasts longer than 105.
Not really. Once you get to 105, it's mainly about weight. Bearings
are identical or close. I'd never think of pissing away for more than
105 kit. The only thing DA I own are some vintage chrome cable clamps.
Man, do they clamp! I've never seen cables clamped so efficiently! The
only thing to watch out for with lower end Shimano are the hubs--
repack first thing with 25 grade balls and you're good to go. I've got
a Mavic/2200, meaning the hubs are crapper than Sora, wheelset that
turns like buttah after 10K--but you bet your ass I serviced the hubs
first thing. Mind, I'm not racing on such kit.
|
| | |
Date: 30 Jun 2007 18:40:43
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
landotter wrote:
> On Jun 30, 5:39 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> datakoll wrote:
>>> a few pits here and there is no big deal.
>>> the castrol marine will swaqllow the mess for a year or more
>>> cracked bearings are a big deal as is torn or cracked hub surfaces-bin
>>> toss!!!
>>> the bearing race anround and thru small pits, weras another trail/race
>>> path wears well with castrol and 25 bearings without the bearings
>>> showing excessive distress from that journey.
>>> new cones are always a probability for long hub wear but not
>>> absolutely necessary
>>> if the cones have pits but the hubs are ok, new bearings and grease,
>>> screwed back together will run well until the next repack WHEN THE NEW
>>> CONES ARE ON HAND.
>> but running pitted cones is disgusting. not only are they rough, they
>> can break down completely at any moment. then what? walk?
>>
>> this is why it's best to buy higher end componentry whenever possible.
>> shimano /do/ differentiate product quality every step of the way. d-a
>> lasts longer than ultegra lasts longer than 105.
>
> Not really. Once you get to 105, it's mainly about weight. Bearings
> are identical or close.
the "close" thing is more than arguable - there are clear quality
differences.
> I'd never think of pissing away for more than
> 105 kit.
then how can you speak from experience? i mean, it's not like "pissing
away" expresses any prejudice on the subject...
> The only thing DA I own are some vintage chrome cable clamps.
> Man, do they clamp! I've never seen cables clamped so efficiently! The
> only thing to watch out for with lower end Shimano are the hubs--
> repack first thing with 25 grade balls and you're good to go. I've got
> a Mavic/2200, meaning the hubs are crapper than Sora, wheelset that
> turns like buttah after 10K--but you bet your ass I serviced the hubs
> first thing. Mind, I'm not racing on such kit.
>
if they're like the older ones i've seen, they have case hardened cones.
that means "crap" and they spall like crazy. no amount of repack or
bearing ball changes can change that.
|
| | | |
Date: 30 Jun 2007 21:18:36
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
>>> datakoll wrote:
>>>> a few pits here and there is no big deal.
>>>> the castrol marine will swaqllow the mess for a year or more
>>>> cracked bearings are a big deal as is torn or cracked hub surfaces-bin
>>>> toss!!!
>>>> the bearing race anround and thru small pits, weras another trail/race
>>>> path wears well with castrol and 25 bearings without the bearings
>>>> showing excessive distress from that journey.
>>>> new cones are always a probability for long hub wear but not
>>>> absolutely necessary
>>>> if the cones have pits but the hubs are ok, new bearings and grease,
>>>> screwed back together will run well until the next repack WHEN THE NEW
>>>> CONES ARE ON HAND.
jim beam wrote:
>>> but running pitted cones is disgusting. not only are they rough, they
>>> can break down completely at any moment. then what? walk?
>>> this is why it's best to buy higher end componentry whenever possible.
>>> shimano /do/ differentiate product quality every step of the way. d-a
>>> lasts longer than ultegra lasts longer than 105.
> landotter wrote:
>> Not really. Once you get to 105, it's mainly about weight. Bearings
>> are identical or close.
>> I'd never think of pissing away for more than
>> 105 kit.
>> The only thing DA I own are some vintage chrome cable clamps.
>> Man, do they clamp! I've never seen cables clamped so efficiently! The
>> only thing to watch out for with lower end Shimano are the hubs--
>> repack first thing with 25 grade balls and you're good to go. I've got
>> a Mavic/2200, meaning the hubs are crapper than Sora, wheelset that
>> turns like buttah after 10K--but you bet your ass I serviced the hubs
>> first thing. Mind, I'm not racing on such kit.
jim beam wrote:
> the "close" thing is more than arguable - there are clear quality
> differences.
> then how can you speak from experience? i mean, it's not like "pissing
> away" expresses any prejudice on the subject...
> if they're like the older ones i've seen, they have case hardened cones.
> that means "crap" and they spall like crazy. no amount of repack or
> bearing ball changes can change that.
I don't know about Shimano's cone material and hardening processes
across models for a fact but I suspect that surface finish is the bulk
of difference. Many riders who prepped their mew Deore, 105, Normandy
and similar mid-range hubs well when new, then took a moment to spin the
axle in their fingers at each tire change and rebuilt on a regular basis
achieve very long service life. It is possible, even common, to end
with a much smoother polished bearing surface at a few years. Requires
only a minimum investment of prep, lube and maintenance.
Surely these things fail. But factory lubrication/adjustment is so
dismal that we see ruined hub bearings at well under a year commonly. I
can't argue the larger case, but riders who own midrange hubs may do
well to throw $2 worth of good balls and plenty of suitable grease into
a clean hub.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | | |
Date: 01 Jul 2007 09:42:02
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
A Muzi wrote:
>>>> datakoll wrote:
>>>>> a few pits here and there is no big deal.
>>>>> the castrol marine will swaqllow the mess for a year or more
>>>>> cracked bearings are a big deal as is torn or cracked hub surfaces-bin
>>>>> toss!!!
>>>>> the bearing race anround and thru small pits, weras another trail/race
>>>>> path wears well with castrol and 25 bearings without the bearings
>>>>> showing excessive distress from that journey.
>>>>> new cones are always a probability for long hub wear but not
>>>>> absolutely necessary
>>>>> if the cones have pits but the hubs are ok, new bearings and grease,
>>>>> screwed back together will run well until the next repack WHEN THE NEW
>>>>> CONES ARE ON HAND.
>
> jim beam wrote:
>>>> but running pitted cones is disgusting. not only are they rough, they
>>>> can break down completely at any moment. then what? walk?
>>>> this is why it's best to buy higher end componentry whenever possible.
>>>> shimano /do/ differentiate product quality every step of the way. d-a
>>>> lasts longer than ultegra lasts longer than 105.
>
>> landotter wrote:
>>> Not really. Once you get to 105, it's mainly about weight. Bearings
>>> are identical or close.
>>> I'd never think of pissing away for more than
>>> 105 kit.
>>> The only thing DA I own are some vintage chrome cable clamps.
>>> Man, do they clamp! I've never seen cables clamped so efficiently! The
>>> only thing to watch out for with lower end Shimano are the hubs--
>>> repack first thing with 25 grade balls and you're good to go. I've got
>>> a Mavic/2200, meaning the hubs are crapper than Sora, wheelset that
>>> turns like buttah after 10K--but you bet your ass I serviced the hubs
>>> first thing. Mind, I'm not racing on such kit.
>
> jim beam wrote:
>> the "close" thing is more than arguable - there are clear quality
>> differences.
>> then how can you speak from experience? i mean, it's not like
>> "pissing away" expresses any prejudice on the subject...
>> if they're like the older ones i've seen, they have case hardened
>> cones. that means "crap" and they spall like crazy. no amount of
>> repack or bearing ball changes can change that.
>
> I don't know about Shimano's cone material and hardening processes
> across models for a fact but I suspect that surface finish is the bulk
> of difference. Many riders who prepped their mew Deore, 105, Normandy
> and similar mid-range hubs well when new, then took a moment to spin the
> axle in their fingers at each tire change and rebuilt on a regular basis
> achieve very long service life. It is possible, even common, to end
> with a much smoother polished bearing surface at a few years. Requires
> only a minimum investment of prep, lube and maintenance.
>
> Surely these things fail. But factory lubrication/adjustment is so
> dismal that we see ruined hub bearings at well under a year commonly. I
> can't argue the larger case, but riders who own midrange hubs may do
> well to throw $2 worth of good balls and plenty of suitable grease into
> a clean hub.
high spherodicity bearing balls can't prevent cheap case hardened cones
from spalling.
|
| |
Date: 30 Jun 2007 22:01:39
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
a few pits here and there is no big deal.
the castrol marine will swaqllow the mess for a year or more
cracked bearings are a big deal as is torn or cracked hub surfaces-bin
toss!!!
the bearing race anround and thru small pits, weras another trail/race
path wears well with castrol and 25 bearings without the bearings
showing excessive distress from that journey.
new cones are always a probability for long hub wear but not
absolutely necessary
if the cones have pits but the hubs are ok, new bearings and grease,
screwed back together will run well until the next repack WHEN THE NEW
CONES ARE ON HAND.
|
| | |
Date: 30 Jun 2007 15:39:23
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
datakoll wrote:
> a few pits here and there is no big deal.
> the castrol marine will swaqllow the mess for a year or more
> cracked bearings are a big deal as is torn or cracked hub surfaces-bin
> toss!!!
> the bearing race anround and thru small pits, weras another trail/race
> path wears well with castrol and 25 bearings without the bearings
> showing excessive distress from that journey.
> new cones are always a probability for long hub wear but not
> absolutely necessary
> if the cones have pits but the hubs are ok, new bearings and grease,
> screwed back together will run well until the next repack WHEN THE NEW
> CONES ARE ON HAND.
>
>
but running pitted cones is disgusting. not only are they rough, they
can break down completely at any moment. then what? walk?
this is why it's best to buy higher end componentry whenever possible.
shimano /do/ differentiate product quality every step of the way. d-a
lasts longer than ultegra lasts longer than 105, etc. it's more than
skin deep. continued replacement of cheap parts seems a waste of time
to me.
|
| | | |
Date: 01 Jul 2007 13:06:38
From:
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 15:39:23 -0700, jim beam
<spamvortex@bad.example.net > wrote:
>but running pitted cones is disgusting. not only are they rough, they
>can break down completely at any moment. then what? walk?
[snip]
Dear Jim,
Damaged cones should be replaced with a suitable material. We modern
sissies should consider what people riding around the eastern U.S.
routinely did:
"Four days later, another blacksmith fitted some iron plates or
washers behind the bearing boxes [of a 46-inch highwheeler], for the
shoulders of these had been filed down so far, to offset the wear of
the upper bearings, that the cams would no longer hold."
"Further filings in the course of the next week's journey, almost
obliterated the 'coned' character of the boxes and reduced them nearly
to the condition of flat pieces of metal; so that at Cazenovia, 1,488
miles from the time of the repairs at Hartford, I was forced to make
my first experiment with rawhide as a material for bearings."
"This substance becomes pliable after several hours' soaking in water,
and strips of it can then be fitted between the upper side of the axle
and the ends of the fork, to compensate for the wear of the coned
surfaces."
"When dry, the rawhide is about as durable and unyielding as steel;
but, as I took a ride of eight miles within a few hours of applying it
to the axle, and continued my joruney early the next morning, the
strips worked out of their places and protruded from the sides, where
they attracted enough moisture in an all-day's ride thjrough the rain,
to still further impair their usefulness."
"After 215 miles' usage, therefore, I replaced them with new strips;
and, though I waited only twelve hours for these to harden, they kept
in position and rendered good service without further attentions for
the remaining 994 miles of my record [10,000 miles]."
"I doubt if I should have been able to finish this without new cones
on the fork, unless I had resorted to the rawhide. Such resort,
however, I do not venture to recommend except for bearings which are
very badly worn; and I should say that at least twenty-four hours
ouhgt to be allowed for hardening, after the damp strips have been
applied to the axle."
"I may add that rawhide is an article not readily procurable, for I
learned that in the whole of Syracuse, which is a city of 60,000
people, there was only one place (a trunk-maker's) where it could be
obtained."
--Karl Kron, circa 1884, "Ten Thousand Miles on a Bicycle" p. 43-4
So degenerate is our modern age that I felt compelled to break Kron's
single massive paragraph on rawhide bearings into seven more easily
digestible chunks.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
|
| |
Date: 30 Jun 2007 16:08:59
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
On Jun 30, 10:40 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net > wrote:
> landotter wrote:
> > On Jun 29, 10:47 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> >> AWN wrote:
> >>> This may sound like a silly question but my experience with working on
> >>> hubs is limited to minor adjustments to cone tension. I have 2 rear
> >>> Deore/LX mtb hubs that seem to be 'sticking' a little as if missing
> >>> engagement/pawl connection. Is there a 'kit' available for rebuilding
> >>> these hubs or is it even worthwhile? Is it true that the XT versions
> >>> are far easier to rebuild with drop in cartridge bearings? It seems
> >>> easier to me that dropping in bearings one at a time in a
> >>> surgically-clean envirmonment. Anyway, are the XTs that much better or
> >>> do you have other suggestions? I do fairly aggressive XC and very light
> >>> DH riding. I don't take huge drops or anything and for the mostpart I
> >>> like to be relatively close to the ground.
> >>> I am using these hubs with Rhinolite rims and DT Swiss spokes if it
> >>> makes any difference...
> >>> Thanks for any advice you can offer based on experience.
> >>> Andrew.
> >> imo, it's not worth rebuilding those hubs. the price for total
> >> replacement is low and the quality is not high. simply replace.
>
> > Quality not high? All Shimano hubs are well made, though some need TLC
> > out of the box. LX kit, lubed and adjusted properly, is as nice as any
> > rider will likely need.
>
> > Let's see, $3 in ball bearings and fifteen minutes vs. over a $100 if
> > I want a new hub laced up at the LBS.
>
> but replacing bearing balls does nothing for pitted cones. so it's not
> just $3.
>
> and what's the cost of having the the lbs replace a freehub body
> [according to the op's question] and bearings and cones? shimano pawls
> are not readily available. compare apples with apples.
Seems like you just want to piss away money for no good reason. The
freehub is most likely just dirty and needs lube--a ten minute job. If
a cone needs replacing, that's $3-5. If the freehub really is hosed,
$30 is still far cheaper and more convenient than building a new
wheel. Really, it's amazing how thick headed you are when it comes to
the wonderful nature of traditional hubs--their inherent modularity
and repairability.
|
| | |
Date: 30 Jun 2007 09:19:13
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
landotter wrote:
> On Jun 30, 10:40 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> landotter wrote:
>>> On Jun 29, 10:47 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>> AWN wrote:
>>>>> This may sound like a silly question but my experience with working on
>>>>> hubs is limited to minor adjustments to cone tension. I have 2 rear
>>>>> Deore/LX mtb hubs that seem to be 'sticking' a little as if missing
>>>>> engagement/pawl connection. Is there a 'kit' available for rebuilding
>>>>> these hubs or is it even worthwhile? Is it true that the XT versions
>>>>> are far easier to rebuild with drop in cartridge bearings? It seems
>>>>> easier to me that dropping in bearings one at a time in a
>>>>> surgically-clean envirmonment. Anyway, are the XTs that much better or
>>>>> do you have other suggestions? I do fairly aggressive XC and very light
>>>>> DH riding. I don't take huge drops or anything and for the mostpart I
>>>>> like to be relatively close to the ground.
>>>>> I am using these hubs with Rhinolite rims and DT Swiss spokes if it
>>>>> makes any difference...
>>>>> Thanks for any advice you can offer based on experience.
>>>>> Andrew.
>>>> imo, it's not worth rebuilding those hubs. the price for total
>>>> replacement is low and the quality is not high. simply replace.
>>> Quality not high? All Shimano hubs are well made, though some need TLC
>>> out of the box. LX kit, lubed and adjusted properly, is as nice as any
>>> rider will likely need.
>>> Let's see, $3 in ball bearings and fifteen minutes vs. over a $100 if
>>> I want a new hub laced up at the LBS.
>> but replacing bearing balls does nothing for pitted cones. so it's not
>> just $3.
>>
>> and what's the cost of having the the lbs replace a freehub body
>> [according to the op's question] and bearings and cones? shimano pawls
>> are not readily available. compare apples with apples.
>
> Seems like you just want to piss away money for no good reason. The
> freehub is most likely just dirty and needs lube--a ten minute job. If
> a cone needs replacing, that's $3-5. If the freehub really is hosed,
> $30 is still far cheaper and more convenient than building a new
> wheel. Really, it's amazing how thick headed you are when it comes to
> the wonderful nature of traditional hubs--their inherent modularity
> and repairability.
>
see peter cole for logic and sensibility.
|
| |
Date: 30 Jun 2007 15:12:41
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
On Jun 29, 10:47 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net > wrote:
> AWN wrote:
> > This may sound like a silly question but my experience with working on
> > hubs is limited to minor adjustments to cone tension. I have 2 rear
> > Deore/LX mtb hubs that seem to be 'sticking' a little as if missing
> > engagement/pawl connection. Is there a 'kit' available for rebuilding
> > these hubs or is it even worthwhile? Is it true that the XT versions
> > are far easier to rebuild with drop in cartridge bearings? It seems
> > easier to me that dropping in bearings one at a time in a
> > surgically-clean envirmonment. Anyway, are the XTs that much better or
> > do you have other suggestions? I do fairly aggressive XC and very light
> > DH riding. I don't take huge drops or anything and for the mostpart I
> > like to be relatively close to the ground.
>
> > I am using these hubs with Rhinolite rims and DT Swiss spokes if it
> > makes any difference...
>
> > Thanks for any advice you can offer based on experience.
> > Andrew.
>
> imo, it's not worth rebuilding those hubs. the price for total
> replacement is low and the quality is not high. simply replace.
Quality not high? All Shimano hubs are well made, though some need TLC
out of the box. LX kit, lubed and adjusted properly, is as nice as any
rider will likely need.
Let's see, $3 in ball bearings and fifteen minutes vs. over a $100 if
I want a new hub laced up at the LBS.
|
| | |
Date: 30 Jun 2007 08:40:06
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
landotter wrote:
> On Jun 29, 10:47 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> AWN wrote:
>>> This may sound like a silly question but my experience with working on
>>> hubs is limited to minor adjustments to cone tension. I have 2 rear
>>> Deore/LX mtb hubs that seem to be 'sticking' a little as if missing
>>> engagement/pawl connection. Is there a 'kit' available for rebuilding
>>> these hubs or is it even worthwhile? Is it true that the XT versions
>>> are far easier to rebuild with drop in cartridge bearings? It seems
>>> easier to me that dropping in bearings one at a time in a
>>> surgically-clean envirmonment. Anyway, are the XTs that much better or
>>> do you have other suggestions? I do fairly aggressive XC and very light
>>> DH riding. I don't take huge drops or anything and for the mostpart I
>>> like to be relatively close to the ground.
>>> I am using these hubs with Rhinolite rims and DT Swiss spokes if it
>>> makes any difference...
>>> Thanks for any advice you can offer based on experience.
>>> Andrew.
>> imo, it's not worth rebuilding those hubs. the price for total
>> replacement is low and the quality is not high. simply replace.
>
> Quality not high? All Shimano hubs are well made, though some need TLC
> out of the box. LX kit, lubed and adjusted properly, is as nice as any
> rider will likely need.
>
> Let's see, $3 in ball bearings and fifteen minutes vs. over a $100 if
> I want a new hub laced up at the LBS.
>
but replacing bearing balls does nothing for pitted cones. so it's not
just $3.
and what's the cost of having the the lbs replace a freehub body
[according to the op's question] and bearings and cones? shimano pawls
are not readily available. compare apples with apples.
|
| | | |
Date: 30 Jun 2007 12:02:29
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
jim beam wrote:
> landotter wrote:
>> On Jun 29, 10:47 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>> AWN wrote:
>>>> This may sound like a silly question but my experience with working on
>>>> hubs is limited to minor adjustments to cone tension. I have 2 rear
>>>> Deore/LX mtb hubs that seem to be 'sticking' a little as if missing
>>>> engagement/pawl connection. Is there a 'kit' available for rebuilding
>>>> these hubs or is it even worthwhile? Is it true that the XT versions
>>>> are far easier to rebuild with drop in cartridge bearings? It seems
>>>> easier to me that dropping in bearings one at a time in a
>>>> surgically-clean envirmonment. Anyway, are the XTs that much better or
>>>> do you have other suggestions? I do fairly aggressive XC and very
>>>> light
>>>> DH riding. I don't take huge drops or anything and for the mostpart I
>>>> like to be relatively close to the ground.
>>>> I am using these hubs with Rhinolite rims and DT Swiss spokes if it
>>>> makes any difference...
>>>> Thanks for any advice you can offer based on experience.
>>>> Andrew.
>>> imo, it's not worth rebuilding those hubs. the price for total
>>> replacement is low and the quality is not high. simply replace.
>>
>> Quality not high? All Shimano hubs are well made, though some need TLC
>> out of the box. LX kit, lubed and adjusted properly, is as nice as any
>> rider will likely need.
>>
>> Let's see, $3 in ball bearings and fifteen minutes vs. over a $100 if
>> I want a new hub laced up at the LBS.
>>
>
> but replacing bearing balls does nothing for pitted cones. so it's not
> just $3.
>
> and what's the cost of having the the lbs replace a freehub body
> [according to the op's question] and bearings and cones? shimano pawls
> are not readily available. compare apples with apples.
I just keep an eye out for LX hubs on sale -- often for $20 or so
(rear). Strip for parts as needed.
|
| | | | |
Date: 30 Jun 2007 09:19:36
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
Peter Cole wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> landotter wrote:
>>> On Jun 29, 10:47 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>> AWN wrote:
>>>>> This may sound like a silly question but my experience with working on
>>>>> hubs is limited to minor adjustments to cone tension. I have 2 rear
>>>>> Deore/LX mtb hubs that seem to be 'sticking' a little as if missing
>>>>> engagement/pawl connection. Is there a 'kit' available for rebuilding
>>>>> these hubs or is it even worthwhile? Is it true that the XT versions
>>>>> are far easier to rebuild with drop in cartridge bearings? It seems
>>>>> easier to me that dropping in bearings one at a time in a
>>>>> surgically-clean envirmonment. Anyway, are the XTs that much
>>>>> better or
>>>>> do you have other suggestions? I do fairly aggressive XC and very
>>>>> light
>>>>> DH riding. I don't take huge drops or anything and for the mostpart I
>>>>> like to be relatively close to the ground.
>>>>> I am using these hubs with Rhinolite rims and DT Swiss spokes if it
>>>>> makes any difference...
>>>>> Thanks for any advice you can offer based on experience.
>>>>> Andrew.
>>>> imo, it's not worth rebuilding those hubs. the price for total
>>>> replacement is low and the quality is not high. simply replace.
>>>
>>> Quality not high? All Shimano hubs are well made, though some need TLC
>>> out of the box. LX kit, lubed and adjusted properly, is as nice as any
>>> rider will likely need.
>>>
>>> Let's see, $3 in ball bearings and fifteen minutes vs. over a $100 if
>>> I want a new hub laced up at the LBS.
>>>
>>
>> but replacing bearing balls does nothing for pitted cones. so it's
>> not just $3.
>>
>> and what's the cost of having the the lbs replace a freehub body
>> [according to the op's question] and bearings and cones? shimano
>> pawls are not readily available. compare apples with apples.
>
> I just keep an eye out for LX hubs on sale -- often for $20 or so
> (rear). Strip for parts as needed.
that's what i do!
|
| |
Date: 30 Jun 2007 13:51:11
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
Use a good grease, any grease(grease is il in
> 'soap', anything works)..and reassemble..Adjust well, go ride.- Hide quoted text -
grease for mtb or worn hubs? try 'castrol marine' at Wal Castrol is a
major player with R/D. The grease is specifically low temp
applications, water resistant and is slicker than a greased pig in the
Ozarks on July 1.
if you read and library, try finding Bicycle Mag's article on bicycle
costs, from several years back, over a riding lifetime. why the cost
in energy supplements runs to...
|
| |
Date: 30 Jun 2007 12:21:18
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
On Jun 29, 7:22=C2=A0am, AWN <anix...@cogeco.ca > wrote:
> This may sound like a silly question but my experience with working on hu=
bs
> is limited to minor adjustments to cone tension. =C2=A0I have 2 rear Deor=
e/LX mtb
> hubs that seem to be =C5=92sticking=C2=B9 a little as if missing engageme=
nt/pawl
> connection. =C2=A0Is there a =C5=92kit=C2=B9 available for rebuilding the=
se hubs or is it
> even worthwhile? =C2=A0Is it true that the XT versions are far easier to =
rebuild
> with drop in cartridge bearings? =C2=A0It seems easier to me that droppin=
g in
> bearings one at a time in a surgically-clean envirmonment. =C2=A0Anyway, =
are the
> XTs that much better or do you have other suggestions? =C2=A0I do fairly
> aggressive XC and very light DH riding. =C2=A0I don=C2=B9t take huge drop=
s or anything
> and for the mostpart I like to be relatively close to the ground.
>
> I am using these hubs with Rhinolite rims and DT Swiss spokes if it makes
> any difference...
>
> Thanks for any advice you can offer based on experience.
> Andrew.
Easy and worthwhile to overhaul them. Take axle out, 10mm allen wrench
and take the freehub body off. Take the rubber seal off the back of
the FH body, flush and oil(I use Mobil One..cheap and doesn't get
thicker in the cold). Clean all places bearing balls live, check cones
for pitting, replace bearing balls(9 1/4 inch each side)..and pitted
cones(easy to find). Use a good grease, any grease(grease is il in
'soap', anything works)..and reassemble..Adjust well, go ride.
|
| |
Date: 30 Jun 2007 11:15:06
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
>
> imo, it's not worth rebuilding those hubs. the price for total
> replacement is low and the quality is not high. simply replace.- Hide qu=
oted text -
4 rebuilds at $10 parts at $40 over five to ten years or max $4/year
Versused
Replace hub at $50 every 2 to 2 =BD years:
$100+ replace or $10-20 repack at 2 years
To
$300+ replace or $60-120 repack at ten years?
Remember to teflon wax flange spoke holes so spokes/flange is lubed
and sealed from dirt entry.
|
| |
Date: 30 Jun 2007 03:59:10
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
On Jun 29, 10:26 pm, Joel Mayes <j.ma...@invalid.invalid > wrote:
> On 2007-06-29, AWN <anix...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
> >> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not unders=
tand
> > this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
>
> > --B_3265953727_283104
> > Content-type: text/plain; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1"
> > Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
>
> > This may sound like a silly question but my experience with working on =
hubs
> > is limited to minor adjustments to cone tension. I have 2 rear Deore/L=
X mtb
> > hubs that seem to be =C5=92sticking=C2=B9 a little as if missing engage=
ment/pawl
> > connection. Is there a =C5=92kit=C2=B9 available for rebuilding these =
hubs or is it
> > even worthwhile? Is it true that the XT versions are far easier to reb=
uild
> > with drop in cartridge bearings? It seems easier to me that dropping in
> > bearings one at a time in a surgically-clean envirmonment. Anyway, are=
the
> > XTs that much better or do you have other suggestions? I do fairly
> > aggressive XC and very light DH riding. I don=C2=B9t take huge drops o=
r anything
> > and for the mostpart I like to be relatively close to the ground.
>
> You certainly can rebuild this, it's really simple jon you'll need a
> four specialised tools (13 & 15mm cone spaners, a chain whip and a
> splined shimano casette tool) some bearing grease and a small pile of
> ball bearings
>
> have a read of <http://sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/hubs.html>
>
I believe the OP is having problems with the freehub, not the bearing--
though the post is confusing as it mentions XT cartridge bearing hubs,
which are merely a fantasy, AFAIK. Indeed, servicing loose bearing
hubs is very simple--and mind, you only really need one cone wrench,
the Park DCW-4 ($5) and an adjustable wrench. I've never had a problem
leaving the cassette on, even with my big hands, though you'd want to
remove it to get to the freehub securing bolt. Freehub removal
requires just one more tool, a large hex wrench, a 10mm (I think).
Auto parts stores are the best place to get one of those bad boys for
peanuts.
|
| |
Date: 29 Jun 2007 20:47:31
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
AWN wrote:
> This may sound like a silly question but my experience with working on
> hubs is limited to minor adjustments to cone tension. I have 2 rear
> Deore/LX mtb hubs that seem to be ‘sticking’ a little as if missing
> engagement/pawl connection. Is there a ‘kit’ available for rebuilding
> these hubs or is it even worthwhile? Is it true that the XT versions
> are far easier to rebuild with drop in cartridge bearings? It seems
> easier to me that dropping in bearings one at a time in a
> surgically-clean envirmonment. Anyway, are the XTs that much better or
> do you have other suggestions? I do fairly aggressive XC and very light
> DH riding. I don’t take huge drops or anything and for the mostpart I
> like to be relatively close to the ground.
>
> I am using these hubs with Rhinolite rims and DT Swiss spokes if it
> makes any difference...
>
> Thanks for any advice you can offer based on experience.
> Andrew.
imo, it's not worth rebuilding those hubs. the price for total
replacement is low and the quality is not high. simply replace.
|
| |
Date: 30 Jun 2007 03:46:13
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
cr-18 is lighter and 'indestructable' from normal use
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=17107&category=860
running a deore 760 xt to a rebuild at abt 3000 miles:
no axle play before rebuild. nada
no sign of bearing or hub wear beyond a slight dulling of chrome
bearing surfaces
using finish line teflon grease lube and a wheels mfg solid axle
red loctite on cassette side
the mileage was under HD touring loads.
rebuild with best quality hi chromium grade 25 bearings
get a rebuild kit, with a cassette side "rubber" washer, if possible.
tho replacing the washer may not be necessary, having one on hand
ensures its not.
3-4 rebuilds up to 7-8000 miles are probabble but this is on a well
maintained road hub-grease always clean, replaced once a year.
|
| |
Date: 30 Jun 2007 03:26:10
From: Joel Mayes
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
On 2007-06-29, AWN <anixon1@cogeco.ca > wrote:
>> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
> this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
>
> --B_3265953727_283104
> Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
> Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
>
> This may sound like a silly question but my experience with working on hubs
> is limited to minor adjustments to cone tension. I have 2 rear Deore/LX mtb
> hubs that seem to be Œsticking¹ a little as if missing engagement/pawl
> connection. Is there a Œkit¹ available for rebuilding these hubs or is it
> even worthwhile? Is it true that the XT versions are far easier to rebuild
> with drop in cartridge bearings? It seems easier to me that dropping in
> bearings one at a time in a surgically-clean envirmonment. Anyway, are the
> XTs that much better or do you have other suggestions? I do fairly
> aggressive XC and very light DH riding. I don¹t take huge drops or anything
> and for the mostpart I like to be relatively close to the ground.
You certainly can rebuild this, it's really simple jon you'll need a
four specialised tools (13 & 15mm cone spaners, a chain whip and a
splined shimano casette tool) some bearing grease and a small pile of
ball bearings
have a read of <http://sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/hubs.html >
Cheers
>
> --B_3265953727_283104
> Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
> Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
>
><HTML>
><HEAD>
><TITLE>Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs</TITLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY>
><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana">This may sound like a silly question but my experience=
You should set your news ready to do text only messages!
Cheers
Joel
--
Human Powered Cycles
|
| |
Date: 29 Jun 2007 13:16:21
From: Nate Knutson
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
On Jun 29, 9:49 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jun 29, 8:22 am, AWN <anix...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
>
> > This may sound like a silly question but my experience with working on =
hubs
> > is limited to minor adjustments to cone tension. I have 2 rear Deore/L=
X mtb
> > hubs that seem to be =C5=92sticking=C2=B9 a little as if missing engage=
ment/pawl
> > connection.
>
> Remove, flush, and relube the freehub. Unless it's actually worn out
> or broken, this should get you back in business.http://parktool.com/repai=
r/readhowto.asp?id=3D45
This page is pretty cool but I feel like pointing out that just
overhauling a Shimano freehub, presuming you have the now-unavailable
tool to do so and can manage to get the dust cap off without hurting
it or you have a replacement one, really isn't going to take much
longer than doing a good job of hitting it with solvent and compressed
air. Then you can actually do the job right since you can adjust the
bearing by removing a washer(s), which many freehubs that have made it
that far probably need anyway, and will help keep the bearing going as
well as reducing slop in your freehub and by extension your cassette,
which can't be bad.
|
| |
Date: 29 Jun 2007 16:49:53
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
On Jun 29, 8:22 am, AWN <anix...@cogeco.ca > wrote:
> This may sound like a silly question but my experience with working on hu=
bs
> is limited to minor adjustments to cone tension. I have 2 rear Deore/LX =
mtb
> hubs that seem to be =C5=92sticking=C2=B9 a little as if missing engageme=
nt/pawl
> connection.
Remove, flush, and relube the freehub. Unless it's actually worn out
or broken, this should get you back in business.
http://parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=3D45
|
| |
Date: 29 Jun 2007 07:48:49
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Is it worthwhile to rebuild Deore/LX 9 speed hubs
|
On Jun 29, 6:22 am, AWN <anix...@cogeco.ca > wrote:
> This may sound like a silly question but my experience with working on hu=
bs
> is limited to minor adjustments to cone tension. I have 2 rear Deore/LX =
mtb
> hubs that seem to be =C5=92sticking=C2=B9 a little as if missing engageme=
nt/pawl
> connection. Is there a =C5=92kit=C2=B9 available for rebuilding these hu=
bs or is it
> even worthwhile? Is it true that the XT versions are far easier to rebui=
ld
> with drop in cartridge bearings? It seems easier to me that dropping in
> bearings one at a time in a surgically-clean envirmonment. Anyway, are t=
he
> XTs that much better or do you have other suggestions? I do fairly
> aggressive XC and very light DH riding. I don=C2=B9t take huge drops or =
anything
> and for the mostpart I like to be relatively close to the ground.
>
> I am using these hubs with Rhinolite rims and DT Swiss spokes if it makes
> any difference...
>
> Thanks for any advice you can offer based on experience.
> Andrew.
All Shimano hubs use cup-and-cone bearings, no cartridges.
Anyway, if your freehub mechanism is failing (and a pawl not engaging
sounds like a failure to me) you can remove that from the hub with a
10mm Allen wrench, and put a new one on. Cost is around $30. Since a
new LX580 rear hub runs about $35-40, I'd say it's only worth it if
the hub is laced into a wheel you want to keep.
|
|
