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Main
Date: 11 Aug 2007 14:51:28
From: Tomek Li
Subject: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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charset="iso-8859-2"
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Hi all,
Being nowadays financially a bit on a lean side, I've purchased some =
four month ago a set of really cheap wheels Vuelta Starlite. They come =
with cart bearing hubs by Taiwanese company Joy-Tech. While the front =
wheel seems to be OK, the rear bearings have become very rough - =
actually unridable - after mere two hundred miles. Without second =
thought, I've replaced bearings, because 6000 series bearings come =
really cheap. Surprisingly there are only two such bearings in the hub, =
while I would expect three to be there. Anyway, again after I've put no =
more than 300 m, the same has happened. I would like to strike out, that =
I've installed bearings properly, no banging and excessive force, just =
pressed them into sockets using hub's quick release. Is it a design =
fault or what?
My warranty is gone, since I've replaced the first ones myself, and I'm =
trying to figure out how to repair damage. The hub is Shimano pattern, =
drilled 24 holes, anybody knows any source of reasonably priced hub I =
could use as replacement, as I hate idea of disposing off the wheel as a =
whole?
Cheers,
Tomek Li
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7DC27.194D4C80
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charset="iso-8859-2"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff >
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi all,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Being nowadays financially a bit =
on a lean=20
side, I've purchased some four month ago a set of really cheap wheels =
Vuelta=20
Starlite. They come with cart bearing hubs by Taiwanese company =
Joy-Tech. While=20
the front wheel seems to be OK, the rear bearings have become very rough =
-=20
actually unridable - after mere two hundred miles. Without second =
thought, I've=20
replaced bearings, because 6000 series bearings come really cheap. =
Surprisingly=20
there are only two such bearings in the hub, while I would expect three =
to be=20
there. Anyway, again after I've put no more than 300 m, the same has =
happened. I=20
would like to strike out, that I've installed bearings properly, no =
banging and=20
excessive force, just pressed them into sockets using hub's quick =
release.=20
Is it a design fault or what?</FONT ></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My warranty is gone, since I've =
replaced the first=20
ones myself, and I'm trying to figure out how to repair damage. The =
hub is=20
Shimano pattern, drilled 24 holes, anybody knows any source of =
reasonably=20
priced hub I could use as replacement, as I hate idea of disposing off =
the wheel=20
as a whole?</FONT ></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cheers,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tomek Li</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7DC27.194D4C80--
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Date: 13 Aug 2007 07:59:58
From: Ron Ruff
Subject: Re: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
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On Aug 13, 7:33 am, daveornee <daveornee.2v9...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com > wrote:
> I assert that leaving the "inside" seal on is useful to assist in
> containing the full load of waterproof grease and otherwise assisting
> in keeping out contaminants.
That makes perfect sense... I didn't consider the grease coming out
that side. I guess there is also a chance for a little water intrusion
around the axle/race interface.
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 01:20:26
From: daveornee
Subject: Re: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
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Ron Ruff Wrote:
> On Aug 13, 7:33 am, daveornee <daveornee.2v9...@no-
> mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> > I assert that leaving the "inside" seal on is useful to assist in
> > containing the full load of waterproof grease and otherwis
> assisting
> > in keeping out contaminants.
>
> That makes perfect sense... I didn't consider the grease coming out
> that side. I guess there is also a chance for a little water intrusion
> around the axle/race interface.
Yes, and I think Jim Beam needs to take another look at Endur
bearings. They have many different options for bicycle hub cartridg
bearings. I think they provide good values for the applications. The
have quality materials and good application specific engineering (an
implementation) for bicycle hubs with cartridge bearings. The doubl
lip light contact and full contact seals are quite good. They hav
both ABEC 5 and 10 grade ball bearings as well as high precision in th
other bearing surfaces
--
daveornee
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Date: 12 Aug 2007 16:14:28
From: Ron Ruff
Subject: Re: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
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On Aug 12, 11:18 am, daveornee <daveornee.2v7...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com > wrote:
> SKF are good and so are ALPINE, BARDEN, FAFNIR, GMN, NHBB, & RHP.
> As another poster has already stated, make sure to get the ones with
> Rubber Seals on both sides (sometimes noted as 2RS and other
> designations such as SS).
The bearings have rubber seals on both sides (though I think it is
only necessary on the outside), but what I'm wondering about is the
*quality* of this seal as far as keeping out water. I was told that a
double lip is needed on each seal, and the Enduros have this... most
others do not. On the SKF site, type RSH seem to have the best seals
for keeping out water, but I didn't see how they were made. I'd guess
that the Chinese bearings that you can buy for a dollar each don't
have very good seals.
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Date: 13 Aug 2007 23:33:57
From: daveornee
Subject: Re: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
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Ron Ruff Wrote:
> On Aug 12, 11:18 am, daveornee <daveornee.2v7...@no-
> mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> > SKF are good and so are ALPINE, BARDEN, FAFNIR, GMN, NHBB, & RHP.
> > As another poster has already stated, make sure to get the ones with
> > Rubber Seals on both sides (sometimes noted as 2RS and other
> > designations such as SS).
>
> The bearings have rubber seals on both sides (though I think it is
> only necessary on the outside), but what I'm wondering about is the
> *quality* of this seal as far as keeping out water. I was told that a
> double lip is needed on each seal, and the Enduros have this... most
> others do not. On the SKF site, type RSH seem to have the best seals
> for keeping out water, but I didn't see how they were made. I'd guess
> that the Chinese bearings that you can buy for a dollar each don't
> have very good seals.
I think you have two valuable assertions here:
1. Double lip on the Enduro seals
2. The possibility of leaving off the "Inside" seal; thus reducin
seal drag.
Chalo stated another which Mr. Muzi already mentioned; 3. Packing th
bearing with water proof grease (often so full that some weeps out th
seals).
There are some high quality hub manufacturers out there that us
cartridge bearings. It would seem that we could find out from users o
the Phil Wood, White Industries, Chris King, and Campy 2007 (all bu
Record hub) users which brand(s) and models work the best and wha
configuration works best.
I assert that leaving the "inside" seal on is useful to assist i
containing the full load of waterproof grease and otherwise assistin
in keeping out contaminants.
Jim Beam asserted that Enduro bearings are "crap". Chalo disagrees
and so do I
--
daveornee
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Date: 12 Aug 2007 21:55:47
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
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On Aug 12, 9:26 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net > wrote:
> Ron Ruff wrote:
> > On Aug 11, 7:51 am, "Tomek Li" <linie...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
> >> I would like to strike out, that I've installed bearings properly, no banging and excessive force, just pressed them into sockets using hub's quick release. Is it a design fault or what?
>
> > You probably want to use Enduro bearings (better sealed),
>
> ugh, enduro suck. and their seals are "low friction", i.e. poor contact
> so they don't in fact "seal" very well. basically, they're just cheapo
> garbage sold as "bike specific" with excessive mark-up.
I've had good luck with them so far; they have sometimes outlasted the
German or Japanese bearings they replaced. At bike shop prices, many
of the sizes are less expensive than the cheap Chinese stuff at
bearing houses.
The "bike specific" and value-added part is the complete fill with
waterproof grease. That would make a mess of the average electric
motor.
Chalo
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Date: 12 Aug 2007 10:50:22
From: Nate Knutson
Subject: Re: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
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On Aug 12, 1:20 am, "Tomek Li" <linie...@rocketmail.com > wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> >> Is it a design fault or what?
>
> > much more likely, it's just cheap bearings and poor adjustment. 6000's
> > are usually cheap and nasty and don't last. you can track down some
> > higher quality ones at your local bearing supply house, but be prepared to
> > pay a lot more than a buck each or whatever it is the bulk online
> > retailers sell for. and for adjustment, makes sure that they don't become
> > over-tight when the skewer is clamped shut - that is typically the case
> > with q/r systems.
>
> I've fit one more - the last one I have - set of bearings. As long as I did
> not put the wheel on the bike everything was ok, bearings were running
> smoothly. After applying skewer, things turn nasty.
> The Joy-Tech axle is a smooth, non-threaded kind. There are two aluminum
> elements which are supposed to fulcrum against the q/r skewing force, and
> these are to be blocked on the axle with one tiny (M3) allen bolt each.
> Before tightening the bolts, the slide along the axle free. I can hardly
> believe, that such fixing is strong enough as to withstand the skewing
> force, which is quite large.
> After a second thougth, I've filed small indents on the surface of axle as
> to provide the blocking bolts with some positive engagemet, not allowing for
> even smallest amount of movement under q/r force.
> Now I'm going for a ride as to check if it all makes any sense,
>
> Thank you all,
>
> Tomek Li
I've dealt with hubs that sound like this before, but it's been a
while. I believe the way they're supposed to work is that the sliding
aluminum caps with the grub screws are supposed to contact the inner
race of the bearing, and the grub screws are there to prevent the caps
from rotating, not to resist the force of the QR. There may have been
a thin spacer between the bearing and the caps, too.
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Date: 12 Aug 2007 08:29:57
From: Ron Ruff
Subject: Re: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
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On Aug 12, 8:26 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net > wrote:
> ugh, enduro suck. and their seals are "low friction", i.e. poor contact
> so they don't in fact "seal" very well. basically, they're just cheapo
> garbage sold as "bike specific" with excessive mark-up.
It was my understanding at least, that they have double lips on each
seal (LL designation). They certainly cost more than others! Do you
know of a better option?
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Date: 13 Aug 2007 03:18:03
From: daveornee
Subject: Re: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
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Ron Ruff Wrote:
> On Aug 12, 8:26 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> > ugh, enduro suck. and their seals are "low friction", i.e. poo
> contact
> > so they don't in fact "seal" very well. basically, they're jus
> cheapo
> > garbage sold as "bike specific" with excessive mark-up.
>
> It was my understanding at least, that they have double lips on each
> seal (LL designation). They certainly cost more than others! Do you
> know of a better option?
SKF are good and so are ALPINE, BARDEN, FAFNIR, GMN, NHBB, & RHP.
As another poster has already stated, make sure to get the ones wit
Rubber Seals on both sides (sometimes noted as 2RS and othe
designations such as SS). More seal drag some times makes for bette
protection from real world bicycle environmental issues. As Mr. Muz
has already stated, make sure their is good grease under the seal
totally coating the bearing's surfaces (If it is "totally packed wit
grease then there is less "room" for contaminants.)
I think that CAREFULLY lifting the seal lips after a wet ride is a goo
practice to clean out (dry out any water and whatever the water washe
inside) and leave a coating of fresh grease on the rubber lips too
--
daveornee
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Date: 12 Aug 2007 08:57:31
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
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Ron Ruff wrote:
> On Aug 12, 8:26 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> ugh, enduro suck. and their seals are "low friction", i.e. poor contact
>> so they don't in fact "seal" very well. basically, they're just cheapo
>> garbage sold as "bike specific" with excessive mark-up.
>
> It was my understanding at least, that they have double lips on each
> seal (LL designation). They certainly cost more than others! Do you
> know of a better option?
http://www.skf.com/portal/skf/home/products?newlink=1_1_6a&lang=en&maincatalogue=1
will cost you nearly 4 times as much.
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Date: 13 Aug 2007 10:10:35
From: Pikachu
Subject: Re: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
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In article <HdGdnbFigMZxsCLbnZ2dnUVZ_q-jnZ2d@speakeasy.net >,
jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net > wrote:
> Ron Ruff wrote:
> > On Aug 12, 8:26 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> >> ugh, enduro suck. and their seals are "low friction", i.e. poor contact
> >> so they don't in fact "seal" very well. basically, they're just cheapo
> >> garbage sold as "bike specific" with excessive mark-up.
> >
> > It was my understanding at least, that they have double lips on each
> > seal (LL designation). They certainly cost more than others! Do you
> > know of a better option?
>
>
> http://www.skf.com/portal/skf/home/products?newlink=1_1_6a&lang=en&maincatalog
> ue=1
>
> will cost you nearly 4 times as much.
Given that the failure mode for bicycle sealed bearings is contaminant
intrusion, how will the indicated improvements of "Improved bearing
steel", "Unique SKF heat treatment procedures", and "Improved surface
finish" of these 4-times-as-expensive SKF "Explorer" bearings help?
Pikachu
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Date: 13 Aug 2007 20:17:00
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
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Pikachu wrote:
> In article <HdGdnbFigMZxsCLbnZ2dnUVZ_q-jnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>
>> Ron Ruff wrote:
>>> On Aug 12, 8:26 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>> ugh, enduro suck. and their seals are "low friction", i.e. poor contact
>>>> so they don't in fact "seal" very well. basically, they're just cheapo
>>>> garbage sold as "bike specific" with excessive mark-up.
>>> It was my understanding at least, that they have double lips on each
>>> seal (LL designation). They certainly cost more than others! Do you
>>> know of a better option?
>>
>> http://www.skf.com/portal/skf/home/products?newlink=1_1_6a&lang=en&maincatalog
>> ue=1
>>
>> will cost you nearly 4 times as much.
>
> Given that the failure mode for bicycle sealed bearings is contaminant
> intrusion,
eh? what's your data source for that little nugget? what about the
bearings that fail though mileage, overload, misalignment, brinelling
during inexpert maintenance, etc.?
> how will the indicated improvements of "Improved bearing
> steel", "Unique SKF heat treatment procedures", and "Improved surface
> finish" of these 4-times-as-expensive SKF "Explorer" bearings help?
>
> Pikachu
here's why:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/1110408641/
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 14:34:48
From: Pikachu
Subject: Re: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
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In article <v-KdneUaYbAzg1zbnZ2dnUVZ_oytnZ2d@speakeasy.net >,
jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net > wrote:
> Pikachu wrote:
> > In article <HdGdnbFigMZxsCLbnZ2dnUVZ_q-jnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
> > jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> http://www.skf.com/portal/skf/home/products?newlink=1_1_6a&lang=en&maincata
> >> logue=1
> >>
> >> will cost you nearly 4 times as much.
> >
> > Given that the failure mode for bicycle sealed bearings is contaminant
> > intrusion,
>
> eh? what's your data source for that little nugget? what about the
> bearings that fail though mileage, overload, misalignment, brinelling
> during inexpert maintenance, etc.?
My data source is my own limited experience, and my reading of the
general consensus of internet sources such as this newsgroup. As
reference only, I have been wrenching on bicycles for about 25 years,
albeit non-professionally, but I know of no wheel bearings that failed
from mileage, overload or brinelling.
Regardless, are you stating that most bearings do not fail from
contaminant intrusion? From prior postings, it would seem that you
consider seal design to be one of the most important aspect of bearing
design, as used on bicycle wheels. In fact, one can presuppose that
your staunch recommendation for cartridge type bearings over traditional
cups-n-cones bearings is your claim of better seals on the cartridge
type bearings. Is it not?
> > how will the indicated improvements of "Improved bearing
> > steel", "Unique SKF heat treatment procedures", and "Improved surface
> > finish" of these 4-times-as-expensive SKF "Explorer" bearings help?
>
> here's why:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/1110408641/
My Enduro "Max" bearings certainly do not look anything like that.
According to Enduro, they are "2RS" with "Dual-lip medium/high contact"
seals that upon cursory inspection are not different than the bearings
on my Phil Wood hubs. The contact seals apply a noticeable drag when
the uninstalled bearing is turned by hand. Price? Less than $3 each.
Again, how can the SKF "Explorer" bearings improve upon these, as used
in bicycle wheels?
Pikachu
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 20:10:00
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
|
Pikachu wrote:
> In article <v-KdneUaYbAzg1zbnZ2dnUVZ_oytnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>
>> Pikachu wrote:
>>> In article <HdGdnbFigMZxsCLbnZ2dnUVZ_q-jnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
>>> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://www.skf.com/portal/skf/home/products?newlink=1_1_6a&lang=en&maincata
>>>> logue=1
>>>>
>>>> will cost you nearly 4 times as much.
>>> Given that the failure mode for bicycle sealed bearings is contaminant
>>> intrusion,
>> eh? what's your data source for that little nugget? what about the
>> bearings that fail though mileage, overload, misalignment, brinelling
>> during inexpert maintenance, etc.?
>
> My data source is my own limited experience, and my reading of the
> general consensus of internet sources such as this newsgroup. As
> reference only, I have been wrenching on bicycles for about 25 years,
> albeit non-professionally, but I know of no wheel bearings that failed
> from mileage, overload or brinelling.
if you're using bearings with seals like the one in my picture, then
yes, they probably /will/ suffer grit intrusion. and most "bike
quality" bearings are like that from what i've seen.
>
> Regardless, are you stating that most bearings do not fail from
> contaminant intrusion?
not if they have proper seals, no. the skf bearings on my mavic cosmos
wheels have endured /way/ more abuse than shimano bearings in the same
wet weather application.
> From prior postings, it would seem that you
> consider seal design to be one of the most important aspect of bearing
> design, as used on bicycle wheels.
not in bearing design, in bike application.
> In fact, one can presuppose that
> your staunch recommendation for cartridge type bearings over traditional
> cups-n-cones bearings is your claim of better seals on the cartridge
> type bearings. Is it not?
only if the bearing quality is sufficient! cheap bearings have poor
seals. that's one of the things that makes them cheap.
>
>
>>> how will the indicated improvements of "Improved bearing
>>> steel", "Unique SKF heat treatment procedures", and "Improved surface
>>> finish" of these 4-times-as-expensive SKF "Explorer" bearings help?
>> here's why:
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/1110408641/
>
> My Enduro "Max" bearings certainly do not look anything like that.
have you removed one seal and done a light test?
> According to Enduro, they are "2RS" with "Dual-lip medium/high contact"
> seals that upon cursory inspection are not different than the bearings
> on my Phil Wood hubs. The contact seals apply a noticeable drag when
> the uninstalled bearing is turned by hand. Price? Less than $3 each.
how do you know it's seal drag? have you compared drag with and without
seals on the same bearing?
>
> Again, how can the SKF "Explorer" bearings improve upon these, as used
> in bicycle wheels?
quality. experience.
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Date: 12 Aug 2007 17:39:13
From: Lou Holtman
Subject: Re: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
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Ron Ruff wrote:
> On Aug 12, 8:26 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> ugh, enduro suck. and their seals are "low friction", i.e. poor contact
>> so they don't in fact "seal" very well. basically, they're just cheapo
>> garbage sold as "bike specific" with excessive mark-up.
>
> It was my understanding at least, that they have double lips on each
> seal (LL designation). They certainly cost more than others! Do you
> know of a better option?
>
>
2RS
Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu (http://www.nb.nu)
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Date: 11 Aug 2007 23:24:16
From: Ron Ruff
Subject: Re: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
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On Aug 11, 7:51 am, "Tomek Li" <linie...@rocketmail.com > wrote:
> I would like to strike out, that I've installed bearings properly, no banging and excessive force, just pressed them into sockets using hub's quick release. Is it a design fault or what?
You probably want to use Enduro bearings (better sealed), and use a
socket that is the very slightly smaller than the outer diameter of
the bearing to press them in. As jim beam mentioned, if you apply a
lot of force to the inner race you could damage the bearing.
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Date: 12 Aug 2007 07:26:45
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
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Ron Ruff wrote:
> On Aug 11, 7:51 am, "Tomek Li" <linie...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>> I would like to strike out, that I've installed bearings properly, no banging and excessive force, just pressed them into sockets using hub's quick release. Is it a design fault or what?
>
> You probably want to use Enduro bearings (better sealed),
ugh, enduro suck. and their seals are "low friction", i.e. poor contact
so they don't in fact "seal" very well. basically, they're just cheapo
garbage sold as "bike specific" with excessive mark-up.
> and use a
> socket that is the very slightly smaller than the outer diameter of
> the bearing to press them in. As jim beam mentioned, if you apply a
> lot of force to the inner race you could damage the bearing.
>
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Date: 11 Aug 2007 10:52:33
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
|
Tomek Li wrote:
> Being nowadays financially a bit on a lean side, I've purchased some
> four month ago a set of really cheap wheels Vuelta Starlite. They come
> with cart bearing hubs by Taiwanese company Joy-Tech. While the front
> wheel seems to be OK, the rear bearings have become very rough -
> actually unridable - after mere two hundred miles. Without second
> thought, I've replaced bearings, because 6000 series bearings come
> really cheap. Surprisingly there are only two such bearings in the hub,
> while I would expect three to be there. Anyway, again after I've put no
> more than 300 m, the same has happened. I would like to strike out, that
> I've installed bearings properly, no banging and excessive force, just
> pressed them into sockets using hub's quick release. Is it a design
> fault or what?
>
> My warranty is gone, since I've replaced the first ones myself, and I'm
> trying to figure out how to repair damage. The hub is Shimano pattern,
> drilled 24 holes, anybody knows any source of reasonably priced hub I
> could use as replacement, as I hate idea of disposing off the wheel as a
> whole?
When you installed the bearings, did you open them and fill with a good
quality grease ? Many bearings are sold with a protective oil coating to
prevent corrosion during transit/storage but not really 'lubricated ' in
any real sense.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 11 Aug 2007 19:16:10
From: Tomek Li
Subject: Re: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
|
"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote in message
news:13brmpge0eiueb2@corp.supernews.com...
>
> When you installed the bearings, did you open them and fill with a good
> quality grease ? Many bearings are sold with a protective oil coating to
> prevent corrosion during transit/storage but not really 'lubricated ' in
> any real sense.
No, I haven't, just assumed, that they are properly greased. Perhaps I was
wrong. I have one more set of bearings home - Japanese KYK 6000ZCR, which
are more expensive than the ones I used previously. They are sealed with a
metallic gasket, so I'm wondering if it makes sense to pry them open just to
check how well lubricated they are. The seal looks quite fragile.
Cheers,
Tomek Li
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Date: 11 Aug 2007 14:23:12
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
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> "A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote
>> When you installed the bearings, did you open them and fill with a good
>> quality grease ? Many bearings are sold with a protective oil coating to
>> prevent corrosion during transit/storage but not really 'lubricated ' in
>> any real sense.
Tomek Li wrote:
> No, I haven't, just assumed, that they are properly greased. Perhaps I was
> wrong. I have one more set of bearings home - Japanese KYK 6000ZCR, which
> are more expensive than the ones I used previously. They are sealed with a
> metallic gasket, so I'm wondering if it makes sense to pry them open just to
> check how well lubricated they are. The seal looks quite fragile.
As discussed here recently, an RS may be opened and resealed without any
trouble. A ZZ can't. There are a _lot_ of variants available in bearing
covers, shields, seals. The bearing maker doesn't know if you are going
to use this in an enclosed oil bath or in a dusty airflow or in a bicycle.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 11 Aug 2007 07:05:19
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
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Tomek Li wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Being nowadays financially a bit on a lean side, I've purchased some
> four month ago a set of really cheap wheels Vuelta Starlite. They come
> with cart bearing hubs by Taiwanese company Joy-Tech. While the front
> wheel seems to be OK, the rear bearings have become very rough -
> actually unridable - after mere two hundred miles. Without second
> thought, I've replaced bearings, because 6000 series bearings come
> really cheap. Surprisingly there are only two such bearings in the hub,
> while I would expect three to be there. Anyway, again after I've put no
> more than 300 m, the same has happened. I would like to strike out, that
> I've installed bearings properly, no banging and excessive force, just
> pressed them into sockets using hub's quick release.
that could be one issue. when installing bearings, only apply force to
the race on which there's interference. pressing on the inner race when
the interference is on the outer can cause brinelling and consequently
much reduced service life.
> Is it a design
> fault or what?
much more likely, it's just cheap bearings and poor adjustment. 6000's
are usually cheap and nasty and don't last. you can track down some
higher quality ones at your local bearing supply house, but be prepared
to pay a lot more than a buck each or whatever it is the bulk online
retailers sell for. and for adjustment, makes sure that they don't
become over-tight when the skewer is clamped shut - that is typically
the case with q/r systems.
>
> My warranty is gone, since I've replaced the first ones myself, and I'm
> trying to figure out how to repair damage. The hub is Shimano pattern,
> drilled 24 holes, anybody knows any source of reasonably priced hub I
> could use as replacement, as I hate idea of disposing off the wheel as a
> whole?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tomek Li
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Date: 12 Aug 2007 09:20:09
From: Tomek Li
Subject: Re: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
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"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net > wrote in message
>> Is it a design fault or what?
>
> much more likely, it's just cheap bearings and poor adjustment. 6000's
> are usually cheap and nasty and don't last. you can track down some
> higher quality ones at your local bearing supply house, but be prepared to
> pay a lot more than a buck each or whatever it is the bulk online
> retailers sell for. and for adjustment, makes sure that they don't become
> over-tight when the skewer is clamped shut - that is typically the case
> with q/r systems.
I've fit one more - the last one I have - set of bearings. As long as I did
not put the wheel on the bike everything was ok, bearings were running
smoothly. After applying skewer, things turn nasty.
The Joy-Tech axle is a smooth, non-threaded kind. There are two aluminum
elements which are supposed to fulcrum against the q/r skewing force, and
these are to be blocked on the axle with one tiny (M3) allen bolt each.
Before tightening the bolts, the slide along the axle free. I can hardly
believe, that such fixing is strong enough as to withstand the skewing
force, which is quite large.
After a second thougth, I've filed small indents on the surface of axle as
to provide the blocking bolts with some positive engagemet, not allowing for
even smallest amount of movement under q/r force.
Now I'm going for a ride as to check if it all makes any sense,
Thank you all,
Tomek Li
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Date: 12 Aug 2007 07:09:00
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
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Tomek Li wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>> Is it a design fault or what?
>> much more likely, it's just cheap bearings and poor adjustment. 6000's
>> are usually cheap and nasty and don't last. you can track down some
>> higher quality ones at your local bearing supply house, but be prepared to
>> pay a lot more than a buck each or whatever it is the bulk online
>> retailers sell for. and for adjustment, makes sure that they don't become
>> over-tight when the skewer is clamped shut - that is typically the case
>> with q/r systems.
>
> I've fit one more - the last one I have - set of bearings. As long as I did
> not put the wheel on the bike everything was ok, bearings were running
> smoothly. After applying skewer, things turn nasty.
> The Joy-Tech axle is a smooth, non-threaded kind. There are two aluminum
> elements which are supposed to fulcrum against the q/r skewing force, and
> these are to be blocked on the axle with one tiny (M3) allen bolt each.
> Before tightening the bolts, the slide along the axle free. I can hardly
> believe, that such fixing is strong enough as to withstand the skewing
> force, which is quite large.
> After a second thougth, I've filed small indents on the surface of axle as
> to provide the blocking bolts with some positive engagemet, not allowing for
> even smallest amount of movement under q/r force.
> Now I'm going for a ride as to check if it all makes any sense,
>
> Thank you all,
>
> Tomek Li
>
>
there's a thin shimming washer used on some older ultegra crank sets.
if you can find one of those, you might be able to use it on the axle.
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Date: 11 Aug 2007 19:18:15
From: Tomek Li
Subject: Re: Joy-tech cartridge bearing hub sucks?
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"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net > wrote in message
news:jZidnTnCnqS9XyDbnZ2dnUVZ_i2dnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>
> that could be one issue. when installing bearings, only apply force to
> the race on which there's interference. pressing on the inner race when
> the interference is on the outer can cause brinelling and consequently
> much reduced service life.
This time I'll follow your suggestion, I have one more set of bearings
handy.
Thank you!
Cheers,
Tomek Li
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