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Main
Date: 24 May 2007 20:53:46
From:
Subject: Junior gearing and 10 speed Dura-Ace hubs
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Hello,
I've searched the group but can't find an answer to this. Hopefully I
haven't missed it or there is someone who can help or provide a
solution.
I'm helping out a junior rider who has an opportunity to get a set of
the Dura-Ace wheels with the new FH-7800. From this link...
http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/cycle/sac/us/en/technical_service/compatibility_charts/road_compatibility.-MainContent-0003-DownloadFile.tmp/9_10sp%20cs_fh_wh%20compatibility.pdf.pdf
...they are not compatible with his 6600 Ultegra 10spd 14-25 cassette.
Does anyone have a solution to this? Does anyone else make a 14T outer
cog cassette that will fit? Is switching freehub bodies an option?
Cheers and thanks,
Ray
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 19:50:56
From:
Subject: Re: Junior gearing and 10 speed Dura-Ace hubs
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Update:
First of all thanks to all who took the time to help. Greatly
Appreciated!!
Although there were some suggestions that I wanted to try the winner
is....
Marten. "Can't remember whether Miche sprockets (they do a 14-23) are
deep spline."
Although I am sure some of your more resourceful solutions would work
after I read your post I contacted Donn Kellogg, the US Miche Rep, who
was very helpful and very quick to get back to me. We received 2
cassettes today and they fit and work perfect.
Once again, thanks for the brainstorming and suggestions.
Cheers,
Ray
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Date: 27 May 2007 16:46:28
From: PiledHIgher
Subject: Re: Junior gearing and 10 speed Dura-Ace hubs
|
On May 28, 12:01 am, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr > wrote:
> Dans le message denews:daveornee.2r8uoz@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com,
> daveornee <daveornee.2r8...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> a r=E9fl=E9ch=
i, et
> puis a d=E9clar=E9 :
>
>
>
>
>
> > raydug...@hotmail.com Wrote:
> >> Hello,
>
> >> I've searched the group but can't find an answer to this. Hopefully I
> >> haven't missed it or there is someone who can help or provide a
> >> solution.
>
> >> I'm helping out a junior rider who has an opportunity to get a set of
> >> the Dura-Ace wheels with the new FH-7800. From this link...
> >>http://tinyurl.com/d95e5
>
> >> ....they are not compatible with his 6600 Ultegra 10spd 14-25
> >> cassette.
> >> Does anyone have a solution to this? Does anyone else make a 14T
> >> outer cog cassette that will fit? Is switching freehub bodies an
> >> option?
>
> >> Cheers and thanks,
> >> Ray
> > You looked in the correct place on the Shimano web site.
> > Thier answer is no.
> > I have looked around as well for the same solution. I didn't find an
> > off-the-shelf answer.
> > If you want to pursue it further I suggest you check with:
>
> > email: i...@wheelsmfg.com
> > phone: 303-410-7336 8am - 5pm MST Monday - Thursday. 8 am - 1 pm
> > Fridays
> > Fax: 303-410-7337
> > Wheels Manufacturing, Inc. 11811 Upham Unit 7, Broomfield, CO 80020
> > USA.
> > They do some machining of cassette and cogs. Thier prices for simple
> > solutions are $48, so your requirements would likely cost more.
>
> Real cheap answer : Miche. Build your own ratios, too.- Hide quoted text=
-
>
> - Show quoted text -
Surely the other potential solution is a smaller large chainring?
I thought that was the usual junior solution, seen some juniors
running stuff like 39/42 to keep the highest gear under control.
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Date: 28 May 2007 08:28:46
From: M-gineering
Subject: Re: Junior gearing and 10 speed Dura-Ace hubs
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PiledHIgher wrote:
>
> Surely the other potential solution is a smaller large chainring?
>
> I thought that was the usual junior solution, seen some juniors
> running stuff like 39/42 to keep the highest gear under control.
no fun if you get a neutral spare with only a 14!, other way round works
a treat ;)
--
/Marten
info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
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Date: 27 May 2007 23:27:56
From: daveornee
Subject: Re: Junior gearing and 10 speed Dura-Ace hubs
|
rayduggan@hotmail.com Wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've searched the group but can't find an answer to this. Hopefully I
> haven't missed it or there is someone who can help or provide a
> solution.
>
> I'm helping out a junior rider who has an opportunity to get a set of
> the Dura-Ace wheels with the new FH-7800. From this link...
> http://tinyurl.com/d95e5
>
> ....they are not compatible with his 6600 Ultegra 10spd 14-2
> cassette.
> Does anyone have a solution to this? Does anyone else make a 14T outer
> cog cassette that will fit? Is switching freehub bodies an option?
>
> Cheers and thanks,
> Ray
You looked in the correct place on the Shimano web site.
Thier answer is no.
I have looked around as well for the same solution. I didn't find a
off-the-shelf answer.
If you want to pursue it further I suggest you check with:
email: info@wheelsmfg.com
phone: 303-410-7336 8am - 5pm MST Monday - Thursday. 8 am - 1 p
Fridays
Fax: 303-410-7337
Wheels Manufacturing, Inc. 11811 Upham Unit 7, Broomfield, CO 8002
USA.
They do some machining of cassette and cogs. Thier prices for simpl
solutions are $48, so your requirements would likely cost more
--
daveornee
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Date: 27 May 2007 16:01:00
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Junior gearing and 10 speed Dura-Ace hubs
|
Dans le message de news:daveornee.2r8uoz@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com,
daveornee <daveornee.2r8uoz@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com > a réfléchi, et
puis a déclaré :
> rayduggan@hotmail.com Wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I've searched the group but can't find an answer to this. Hopefully I
>> haven't missed it or there is someone who can help or provide a
>> solution.
>>
>> I'm helping out a junior rider who has an opportunity to get a set of
>> the Dura-Ace wheels with the new FH-7800. From this link...
>> http://tinyurl.com/d95e5
>>
>> ....they are not compatible with his 6600 Ultegra 10spd 14-25
>> cassette.
>> Does anyone have a solution to this? Does anyone else make a 14T
>> outer cog cassette that will fit? Is switching freehub bodies an
>> option?
>>
>> Cheers and thanks,
>> Ray
> You looked in the correct place on the Shimano web site.
> Thier answer is no.
> I have looked around as well for the same solution. I didn't find an
> off-the-shelf answer.
> If you want to pursue it further I suggest you check with:
>
> email: info@wheelsmfg.com
> phone: 303-410-7336 8am - 5pm MST Monday - Thursday. 8 am - 1 pm
> Fridays
> Fax: 303-410-7337
> Wheels Manufacturing, Inc. 11811 Upham Unit 7, Broomfield, CO 80020
> USA.
> They do some machining of cassette and cogs. Thier prices for simple
> solutions are $48, so your requirements would likely cost more.
Real cheap answer : Miche. Build your own ratios, too.
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Date: 27 May 2007 05:07:31
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Junior gearing and 10 speed Dura-Ace hubs
|
On May 27, 12:24 am, M-gineering <ikmotgeens...@m-gineering.nl > wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
>
>
> > I stand corrected, haven/t really seen a 6600 14-25, and 'assumed'
> > shimano wouldn't have done something so...silly? Since they make a 14t
> > 6600, like in the 12-23/5/7, why would they do such a thing?
>
> I usually have visions of a whole room full of beaming and nodding
> Japanese agreeing on yet another new invention ;)
> --
> /Marten
>
> info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
I've heard in the past from some of the big boys at shimano, USA, that
some of the designs that come outta Japan are dumm. After a few beers,
this guy admitted', it's what the japanese wanted', and nothing is
gonna change their mind. Like 37mm headsets after a whole bunch of
32mm...making a whole generation of forks obsolete...10s only hubs,
but not all 10s, type stuff...All 3 companies have gaffs in their
design, campag's being dummed down 2007 Centaur and below, like Xenon
and really poor left shifters. Srams left shifter leaves a lot to be
desired as well along with aft only der housing..but I guess that's
gonna change. Would like to see Truvative make better cranks and BBs.
I have heard of more Force big rings being folded.
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Date: 26 May 2007 05:18:28
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Junior gearing and 10 speed Dura-Ace hubs
|
On May 25, 6:18 am, M-gineering <ikmotgeens...@m-gineering.nl > wrote:
> raydug...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Hello,
>
> > I've searched the group but can't find an answer to this. Hopefully I
> > haven't missed it or there is someone who can help or provide a
> > solution.
>
> > I'm helping out a junior rider who has an opportunity to get a set of
> > the Dura-Ace wheels with the new FH-7800. From this link...
> >http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/cycle/sac/us/en/technical_ser...
>
> > ...they are not compatible with his 6600 Ultegra 10spd 14-25 cassette.
> > Does anyone have a solution to this? Does anyone else make a 14T outer
> > cog cassette that will fit? Is switching freehub bodies an option?
>
> > Cheers and thanks,
> > Ray
>
> The cs6600 14-25 has the same shallow splinedepth as the 9 sp cassettes.
> It doesn't fit a tall spline aluminium DA body
>
> --
> /Marten
>
> info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
I stand corrected, haven/t really seen a 6600 14-25, and 'assumed'
shimano wouldn't have done something so...silly? Since they make a 14t
6600, like in the 12-23/5/7, why would they do such a thing?
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Date: 27 May 2007 08:24:38
From: M-gineering
Subject: Re: Junior gearing and 10 speed Dura-Ace hubs
|
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
> I stand corrected, haven/t really seen a 6600 14-25, and 'assumed'
> shimano wouldn't have done something so...silly? Since they make a 14t
> 6600, like in the 12-23/5/7, why would they do such a thing?
>
I usually have visions of a whole room full of beaming and nodding
Japanese agreeing on yet another new invention ;)
--
/Marten
info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
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Date: 25 May 2007 14:38:41
From:
Subject: Re: Junior gearing and 10 speed Dura-Ace hubs
|
> The OP is already considering a freehub swap so the motivation is
> clearly just an image thing. They could still get their DA fix by
> using a FH-7700 (with the Ti freehub upgrade for even more racer
> cred). One could also just cut a deeper slot in the cogs to make them
> fit, or grind down the tall spline and put up with the notching of the
> freehub. Now that I think of it, every pro running 7800 kit should be
> grinding down their splines to save weight and make up a few
> hundredths on their TTs.
Actually the OP (me) for lack of typing speed didn't bother typing
every unnecessary detail. I didn't want to waste the time of the
people willing to help with blah, blah, blah. The actual motivation is
not an image thing. The wheels are from a rider who has a new
sponsorship this year so cannot use these carbon Dura-Ace wheels.
Because the junior is a super nice kid they are being made available
to him for a great price as a way to help him out. So even if it costs
a few $ to make them work (freehub switch) it would still be more than
worth it. If it was an image thing I would have bought the wheels for
myself and used them for my non-racing recreational rides. I am not
very knowledgeable with equipment (I help him in my area of expertise
- for FREE) so I turned to this community for help. It does appear
this is (one of?) your area(s) of knowledge. So will switching to the
FH-7700 work on the WH-7801-Carbon Dura-Ace wheels? Is it possible to
make the switch, will it fit? If it will I promise I will take it to
someone with the knowledge and ability to do the work (because I know
I can't :) ) Thanks for your help!
Cheers,
Ray
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Date: 26 May 2007 00:01:02
From: M-gineering
Subject: Re: Junior gearing and 10 speed Dura-Ace hubs
|
rayduggan@hotmail.com wrote:
So will switching to the
> FH-7700 work on the WH-7801-Carbon Dura-Ace wheels? Is it possible to
> make the switch, will it fit? If it will I promise I will take it to
> someone with the knowledge and ability to do the work (because I know
> I can't :) )
afaik there is no substitute freehub, the DA hub is a unique design.
Theoretically it looks possible to turn down the splines to make a
standard cassette fit. The 14-25 has a massive sprocketcarrier, so I
wouldn't worry to much about denting the soft body with narrow cogs. But
I haven't a DA wheel around to check.
Can't remember whether Miche sprockets (they do a 14-23) are deep spline.
--
/Marten
info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
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Date: 26 May 2007 18:04:29
From: James Thomson
Subject: Re: Junior gearing and 10 speed Dura-Ace hubs
|
"M-gineering" <ikmotgeenspam@m-gineering.nl > a écrit:
> Theoretically it looks possible to turn down the splines to make
> a standard cassette fit. The 14-25 has a massive sprocketcarrier,
> so I wouldn't worry to much about denting the soft body with narrow
> cogs. But I haven't a DA wheel around to check.
I've no experience with Shimano 10-speed, but I've noticed that the 7800
freehub body in Shimano's exploded diagrams appears to have shorter splines
for the first couple of positions:
http://www.paul-lange.de/produkte/shimano/support/explosionszeichungen_archiv/FH/FH_7800_05.pdf
http://www.donde-jose.com/portal/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/78f880a21d6384ef4360f5da6f4092b4.jpg
Would it be possible to use the 14 and 15 from the 14-25 6600 cassette, then
build up the remainder from other (tall-splined) 10-speed cassettes?
James Thomson
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Date: 27 May 2007 08:21:19
From: M-gineering
Subject: Re: Junior gearing and 10 speed Dura-Ace hubs
|
James Thomson wrote:
> "M-gineering" <ikmotgeenspam@m-gineering.nl> a écrit:
>
>> Theoretically it looks possible to turn down the splines to make
>> a standard cassette fit. The 14-25 has a massive sprocketcarrier,
>> so I wouldn't worry to much about denting the soft body with narrow
>> cogs. But I haven't a DA wheel around to check.
>
> I've no experience with Shimano 10-speed, but I've noticed that the 7800
> freehub body in Shimano's exploded diagrams appears to have shorter splines
> for the first couple of positions:
>
> http://www.paul-lange.de/produkte/shimano/support/explosionszeichungen_archiv/FH/FH_7800_05.pdf
>
> http://www.donde-jose.com/portal/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/78f880a21d6384ef4360f5da6f4092b4.jpg
>
> Would it be possible to use the 14 and 15 from the 14-25 6600 cassette, then
> build up the remainder from other (tall-splined) 10-speed cassettes?
>
> James Thomson
maybe:
get a 12-21
loose the 12-13 & 14
get a 14 endcog with the locking grooves and the splined pacer attached
fit the 7sp cassette with a bunch of spacers
or - this is the fun bit -try to add a 23 & 25. Shimano don't make tall
spline loose cogs, so you have to file your own from 9sp HG 70's. Or
turn down a 3 sprocket carrier to use the last two on the spider.
--
/Marten
info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
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Date: 25 May 2007 10:19:08
From: amakyonin
Subject: Re: Junior gearing and 10 speed Dura-Ace hubs
|
On May 25, 8:18 am, M-gineering <ikmotgeens...@m-gineering.nl > wrote:
> The cs6600 14-25 has the same shallow splinedepth as the 9 sp cassettes.
> It doesn't fit a tall spline aluminium DA body
That's pretty retarded on Shimano's part. Of course there is no really
convincing agrument why anyone *needs* an aluminum freehub. The weight
difference isn't that big, especially in an era where people are
adding lead ballast to meet the UCI minimum weight.
The OP is already considering a freehub swap so the motivation is
clearly just an image thing. They could still get their DA fix by
using a FH-7700 (with the Ti freehub upgrade for even more racer
cred). One could also just cut a deeper slot in the cogs to make them
fit, or grind down the tall spline and put up with the notching of the
freehub. Now that I think of it, every pro running 7800 kit should be
grinding down their splines to save weight and make up a few
hundredths on their TTs.
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Date: 25 May 2007 16:53:26
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Junior gearing and 10 speed Dura-Ace hubs
|
On 25 May 2007 10:19:08 -0700, amakyonin <amakyonin-u1@yahoo.com >
wrote:
> there is no really
>convincing agrument why anyone *needs* an aluminum freehub. The weight
>difference isn't that big, especially in an era where people are
>adding lead ballast to meet the UCI minimum weight.
No one is forcing you or anyone to buy the product.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
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Date: 25 May 2007 20:04:58
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Junior gearing and 10 speed Dura-Ace hubs
|
In article
<c5je53l8a5883294tqjvj9g3reecc0iakv@4ax.com >,
John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com >
wrote:
> On 25 May 2007 10:19:08 -0700, amakyonin <amakyonin-u1@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > there is no really
> >convincing agrument why anyone *needs* an aluminum freehub. The weight
> >difference isn't that big, especially in an era where people are
> >adding lead ballast to meet the UCI minimum weight.
>
> No one is forcing you or anyone to buy the product.
You miss the point. This kind of feature explosion
makes buying used equipment an adventure. Buy a Dura
Ace rear wheel, and blam! the cassette on your shelf
does not fit. This was all clear in the thread, but you
chose to ignore it.
--
Michael Press
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Date: 26 May 2007 05:54:31
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Junior gearing and 10 speed Dura-Ace hubs
|
On Fri, 25 May 2007 20:04:58 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net >
wrote:
>You miss the point. This kind of feature explosion
>makes buying used equipment an adventure. Buy a Dura
>Ace rear wheel, and blam! the cassette on your shelf
>does not fit.
It's not an adventure - you can look into these issues beforehand.
It's not like they randomly change cassette specs.
>This was all clear in the thread, but you
>chose to ignore it.
What was clear? That ten-speed Dura Ace has unique demands on
cassette size? No, I'm aware of that and now the OP is too.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
|
| | | | | |
Date: 26 May 2007 10:39:19
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Junior gearing and 10 speed Dura-Ace hubs
|
In article
<cp0g539ncb4rnm4dcvq1sumvt122e5s1hc@4ax.com >,
John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com >
wrote:
> On Fri, 25 May 2007 20:04:58 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net>
> wrote:
>
> >You miss the point. This kind of feature explosion
> >makes buying used equipment an adventure. Buy a Dura
> >Ace rear wheel, and blam! the cassette on your shelf
> >does not fit.
>
> It's not an adventure - you can look into these issues beforehand.
> It's not like they randomly change cassette specs.
>
> >This was all clear in the thread, but you
> >chose to ignore it.
>
> What was clear? That ten-speed Dura Ace has unique demands on
> cassette size? No, I'm aware of that and now the OP is too.
You excised your words that precipitated my response.
>>> No one is forcing you or anyone to buy the product.
That is just plain mean given the original poster's situation.
--
Michael Press
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Date: 26 May 2007 13:55:54
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Junior gearing and 10 speed Dura-Ace hubs
|
On Sat, 26 May 2007 10:39:19 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net >
wrote:
>>>> No one is forcing you or anyone to buy the product.
>
>That is just plain mean given the original poster's situation.
Mean? Wow, that's lame.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
|
| |
Date: 25 May 2007 14:18:31
From: M-gineering
Subject: Re: Junior gearing and 10 speed Dura-Ace hubs
|
rayduggan@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've searched the group but can't find an answer to this. Hopefully I
> haven't missed it or there is someone who can help or provide a
> solution.
>
> I'm helping out a junior rider who has an opportunity to get a set of
> the Dura-Ace wheels with the new FH-7800. From this link...
> http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/cycle/sac/us/en/technical_service/compatibility_charts/road_compatibility.-MainContent-0003-DownloadFile.tmp/9_10sp%20cs_fh_wh%20compatibility.pdf.pdf
>
> ...they are not compatible with his 6600 Ultegra 10spd 14-25 cassette.
> Does anyone have a solution to this? Does anyone else make a 14T outer
> cog cassette that will fit? Is switching freehub bodies an option?
>
> Cheers and thanks,
> Ray
>
The cs6600 14-25 has the same shallow splinedepth as the 9 sp cassettes.
It doesn't fit a tall spline aluminium DA body
--
/Marten
info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
|
| |
Date: 25 May 2007 04:50:08
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Junior gearing and 10 speed Dura-Ace hubs
|
On May 24, 9:53 pm, raydug...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've searched the group but can't find an answer to this. Hopefully I
> haven't missed it or there is someone who can help or provide a
> solution.
>
> I'm helping out a junior rider who has an opportunity to get a set of
> the Dura-Ace wheels with the new FH-7800. From this link...http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/cycle/sac/us/en/technical_ser...
>
> ...they are not compatible with his 6600 Ultegra 10spd 14-25 cassette.
> Does anyone have a solution to this? Does anyone else make a 14T outer
> cog cassette that will fit? Is switching freehub bodies an option?
>
> Cheers and thanks,
> Ray
7800 wheels are 10s only, which means ANY shimano 10s cogset,
including the ultegra 14-25 or any 105 level 10s shimano cogset.
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