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Main
Date: 08 Jun 2007 07:40:12
From: Andy Froncioni
Subject: Lacing Spokes Using Gerd Schraner's Method
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Is there an easy way to lace spokes using Gerd Schraner's ("The Art of
Wheelbuilding") method?
I find that when I get to the second side, inserting spokes is
impossible to do without bending them. I also find that it's tough
not to scratch the rim.
Anyone else have experience with Schraner's method?
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Date: 14 Jun 2007 03:49:20
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Lacing Spokes Using Gerd Schraner's Method
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On Jun 12, 8:01 pm, "ilaboo" <plen...@verizon.net > wrote:
> dont give up--when you first lace your first wheel you can wind up with
> amdness--take it apart or do what ever is necessary--i assure you the first
> time you ride on your own laced wheel you will never go back to the old ones
>
> hth
>
> peter
>
> "datakoll" <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1181521493.820944.24520@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Jun 10, 12:33 pm, Fritz <kh6...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 02:39:23 -0000, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >On Jun 9, 5:28 pm, Ron Ruff <rruffrr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> On Jun 9, 1:56 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> >> >> > After an initial training period, your average adult can do this to
> >> >> > our
> >> >> > standards consistently in a half hour from parts on a table to wheel
> >> >> > in
> >> >> > a box.
>
> >> >> A half an hour per wheel? I'd be interested to know what your
> >> >> standards are...
>
> >> >takes me, in group 2 wheel building, one full flat out nose to the
> >> >wheel day to:
> >> >coordinate parts and tools
> >> >dissassemble old hub and clean axle, rim, tire, tube, and spokes
> >> >dissassemble new hub, clean to loctite, regrease,
> >> >reassemble, wait for locktite to set under heat lamp
> >> >consult sheldon brown on line
> >> >find the %&^%%$#&&!!! new nipples.
> >> >gnash teeth over spokes came in wrong length
> >> >lace well used cr-18 wheel, wax hub holes 4 sides complete, and
> >> >true-3.5 hours.
>
> >> >new tool! nashbar ruler with spoke gauge. oustanding time saver
> >> >considering a wooden twin beam-four block dishing stand to seat
> >> >nipples
> >> >or a 360 concrete rim?
>
> >> You forgot the step where when you are trying to attach the last two
> >> spokes on the wheel and they are too short because you did the pattern
> >> wrong. Now you have to disassemble the wheel and start over.- Hide
> >> quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Oyeah-i never did that! izit possible?
> > what happened this time was shimano (or the cr-18's nipple seat insert
> > dropped) drilled two holes wrong and the correct length spokes (2)
> > were tooooo long by 1.5mm. had two shorter left dover from the last
> > debacle- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
give up? just came in from six years of touring
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Date: 11 Jun 2007 00:24:53
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Lacing Spokes Using Gerd Schraner's Method
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On Jun 10, 12:33 pm, Fritz <kh6...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 02:39:23 -0000, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Jun 9, 5:28 pm, Ron Ruff <rruffrr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Jun 9, 1:56 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> >> > After an initial training period, your average adult can do this to our
> >> > standards consistently in a half hour from parts on a table to wheel in
> >> > a box.
>
> >> A half an hour per wheel? I'd be interested to know what your
> >> standards are...
>
> >takes me, in group 2 wheel building, one full flat out nose to the
> >wheel day to:
> >coordinate parts and tools
> >dissassemble old hub and clean axle, rim, tire, tube, and spokes
> >dissassemble new hub, clean to loctite, regrease,
> >reassemble, wait for locktite to set under heat lamp
> >consult sheldon brown on line
> >find the %&^%%$#&&!!! new nipples.
> >gnash teeth over spokes came in wrong length
> >lace well used cr-18 wheel, wax hub holes 4 sides complete, and
> >true-3.5 hours.
>
> >new tool! nashbar ruler with spoke gauge. oustanding time saver
> >considering a wooden twin beam-four block dishing stand to seat
> >nipples
> >or a 360 concrete rim?
>
> You forgot the step where when you are trying to attach the last two
> spokes on the wheel and they are too short because you did the pattern
> wrong. Now you have to disassemble the wheel and start over.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Oyeah-i never did that! izit possible?
what happened this time was shimano (or the cr-18's nipple seat insert
dropped) drilled two holes wrong and the correct length spokes (2)
were tooooo long by 1.5mm. had two shorter left dover from the last
debacle
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Date: 13 Jun 2007 00:01:52
From: ilaboo
Subject: Re: Lacing Spokes Using Gerd Schraner's Method
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dont give up--when you first lace your first wheel you can wind up with
amdness--take it apart or do what ever is necessary--i assure you the first
time you ride on your own laced wheel you will never go back to the old ones
hth
peter
"datakoll" <datakoll@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1181521493.820944.24520@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 10, 12:33 pm, Fritz <kh6...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 02:39:23 -0000, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Jun 9, 5:28 pm, Ron Ruff <rruffrr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> On Jun 9, 1:56 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>> >> > After an initial training period, your average adult can do this to
>> >> > our
>> >> > standards consistently in a half hour from parts on a table to wheel
>> >> > in
>> >> > a box.
>>
>> >> A half an hour per wheel? I'd be interested to know what your
>> >> standards are...
>>
>> >takes me, in group 2 wheel building, one full flat out nose to the
>> >wheel day to:
>> >coordinate parts and tools
>> >dissassemble old hub and clean axle, rim, tire, tube, and spokes
>> >dissassemble new hub, clean to loctite, regrease,
>> >reassemble, wait for locktite to set under heat lamp
>> >consult sheldon brown on line
>> >find the %&^%%$#&&!!! new nipples.
>> >gnash teeth over spokes came in wrong length
>> >lace well used cr-18 wheel, wax hub holes 4 sides complete, and
>> >true-3.5 hours.
>>
>> >new tool! nashbar ruler with spoke gauge. oustanding time saver
>> >considering a wooden twin beam-four block dishing stand to seat
>> >nipples
>> >or a 360 concrete rim?
>>
>> You forgot the step where when you are trying to attach the last two
>> spokes on the wheel and they are too short because you did the pattern
>> wrong. Now you have to disassemble the wheel and start over.- Hide
>> quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Oyeah-i never did that! izit possible?
> what happened this time was shimano (or the cr-18's nipple seat insert
> dropped) drilled two holes wrong and the correct length spokes (2)
> were tooooo long by 1.5mm. had two shorter left dover from the last
> debacle
>
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Date: 10 Jun 2007 02:39:23
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Lacing Spokes Using Gerd Schraner's Method
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On Jun 9, 5:28 pm, Ron Ruff <rruffrr...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Jun 9, 1:56 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> > After an initial training period, your average adult can do this to our
> > standards consistently in a half hour from parts on a table to wheel in
> > a box.
>
> A half an hour per wheel? I'd be interested to know what your
> standards are...
takes me, in group 2 wheel building, one full flat out nose to the
wheel day to:
coordinate parts and tools
dissassemble old hub and clean axle, rim, tire, tube, and spokes
dissassemble new hub, clean to loctite, regrease,
reassemble, wait for locktite to set under heat lamp
consult sheldon brown on line
find the %&^%%$#&&!!! new nipples.
gnash teeth over spokes came in wrong length
lace well used cr-18 wheel, wax hub holes 4 sides complete, and
true-3.5 hours.
new tool! nashbar ruler with spoke gauge. oustanding time saver
considering a wooden twin beam-four block dishing stand to seat
nipples
or a 360 concrete rim?
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Date: 10 Jun 2007 09:33:15
From: Fritz
Subject: Re: Lacing Spokes Using Gerd Schraner's Method
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On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 02:39:23 -0000, datakoll <datakoll@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>On Jun 9, 5:28 pm, Ron Ruff <rruffrr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Jun 9, 1:56 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>> > After an initial training period, your average adult can do this to our
>> > standards consistently in a half hour from parts on a table to wheel in
>> > a box.
>>
>> A half an hour per wheel? I'd be interested to know what your
>> standards are...
>
>takes me, in group 2 wheel building, one full flat out nose to the
>wheel day to:
>coordinate parts and tools
>dissassemble old hub and clean axle, rim, tire, tube, and spokes
>dissassemble new hub, clean to loctite, regrease,
>reassemble, wait for locktite to set under heat lamp
>consult sheldon brown on line
>find the %&^%%$#&&!!! new nipples.
>gnash teeth over spokes came in wrong length
>lace well used cr-18 wheel, wax hub holes 4 sides complete, and
>true-3.5 hours.
>
>new tool! nashbar ruler with spoke gauge. oustanding time saver
>considering a wooden twin beam-four block dishing stand to seat
>nipples
>or a 360 concrete rim?
>
>
You forgot the step where when you are trying to attach the last two
spokes on the wheel and they are too short because you did the pattern
wrong. Now you have to disassemble the wheel and start over.
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Date: 09 Jun 2007 14:28:54
From: Ron Ruff
Subject: Re: Lacing Spokes Using Gerd Schraner's Method
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On Jun 9, 1:56 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> After an initial training period, your average adult can do this to our
> standards consistently in a half hour from parts on a table to wheel in
> a box.
A half an hour per wheel? I'd be interested to know what your
standards are...
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Date: 09 Jun 2007 12:49:11
From: sal bass
Subject: Re: Lacing Spokes Using Gerd Schraner's Method
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On Jun 8, 10:35 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
> > concur. but pay attention to the "schraner method" as well because it's
> > the old-school classic method of counting hub holes and it allows you to
> > easily position hub labels.
>
>
>
> You don't peel off the labels?
> --
> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
how do you peel the label off a hub? they're usually laser etched or
a decals under a clear coat.
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Date: 09 Jun 2007 12:46:04
From: sal bass
Subject: Re: Lacing Spokes Using Gerd Schraner's Method
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On Jun 8, 10:35 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> >> On Jun 8, 9:40 am, Andy Froncioni <a.fronci...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >>> Is there an easy way to lace spokes using Gerd Schraner's ("The Art of
> >>> Wheelbuilding") method?
> >>> I find that when I get to the second side, inserting spokes is
> >>> impossible to do without bending them. I also find that it's tough
> >>> not to scratch the rim.
> >>> Anyone else have experience with Schraner's method?
> > limey...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> If you're not happy with your current 'Guru', try another.
> >> There are several other sources for wheelbuilding information, for
> >> example:-
> >>http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html
> jim beam wrote:
> > concur. but pay attention to the "schraner method" as well because it's
> > the old-school classic method of counting hub holes and it allows you to
> > easily position hub labels.
>
> You don't peel off the labels?
> --
> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
how do you peel the label off a hub? they're usually laser etched or
decals under a clear cost.
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Date: 09 Jun 2007 12:45:01
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Lacing Spokes Using Gerd Schraner's Method
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the brown method online is bend to cross the third spoke only.
you could be inserting a spoke into the lesser of entry spaces
sum entry spaces are more accessible than others tho the spaces may
look the same
if not examined carefully.
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Date: 08 Jun 2007 23:07:59
From: Orin
Subject: Re: Lacing Spokes Using Gerd Schraner's Method
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On Jun 8, 7:40 am, Andy Froncioni <a.fronci...@sympatico.ca > wrote:
> Is there an easy way to lace spokes using Gerd Schraner's ("The Art of
> Wheelbuilding") method?
>
> I find that when I get to the second side, inserting spokes is
> impossible to do without bending them. I also find that it's tough
> not to scratch the rim.
That's true for some spokes whatever method you use. I don't remember
it being any worse with Schraner's method than Jobst's method.
Orin.
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Date: 09 Jun 2007 19:29:56
From:
Subject: Re: Lacing Spokes Using Gerd Schraner's Method
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Orin Eman writes:
>> Is there an easy way to lace spokes using Gerd Schraner's ("The Art
>> of Wheelbuilding") method?
>> I find that when I get to the second side, inserting spokes is
>> impossible to do without bending them. I also find that it's tough
>> not to scratch the rim.
> That's true for some spokes whatever method you use. I don't
> remember it being any worse with Schraner's method than Jobst's
> method.
The method given in "the Bicycle Wheel" does not require bending
spokes nor is there any interference for inserting sets of spokes. It
uses the same method for any number of spokes and crossings. That is
to say, it is a generic method, valid for any wheel of conventional
spoking.
I don't see why it needs to be difficult other than to keep people
from building wheels. It is not an arcane art if approached properly.
Jobst Brandt
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Date: 09 Jun 2007 14:56:26
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Lacing Spokes Using Gerd Schraner's Method
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>>> Is there an easy way to lace spokes using Gerd Schraner's ("The Art
>>> of Wheelbuilding") method?
>>> I find that when I get to the second side, inserting spokes is
>>> impossible to do without bending them. I also find that it's tough
>>> not to scratch the rim.
> Orin Eman writes:
>> That's true for some spokes whatever method you use. I don't
>> remember it being any worse with Schraner's method than Jobst's
>> method.
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> The method given in "the Bicycle Wheel" does not require bending
> spokes nor is there any interference for inserting sets of spokes. It
> uses the same method for any number of spokes and crossings. That is
> to say, it is a generic method, valid for any wheel of conventional
> spoking.
> I don't see why it needs to be difficult other than to keep people
> from building wheels. It is not an arcane art if approached properly.
Heartily agree, having taught a few hundred people to do that without
overmuch discussion, bending or rim scratches.
_Anyone_ can do this well, given some patience and direction. Not
haphazardly, but truly well.
After an initial training period, your average adult can do this to our
standards consistently in a half hour from parts on a table to wheel in
a box. Prior theoretical knowledge, arcana, 'special gift' or holy water
not required.
p.s. Tim says it helps if to have an earring in your nose:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/GREENRIM.JPG
doesn't slow him down anyway.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 08 Jun 2007 08:13:51
From: limeylew@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Lacing Spokes Using Gerd Schraner's Method
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On Jun 8, 9:40 am, Andy Froncioni <a.fronci...@sympatico.ca > wrote:
> Is there an easy way to lace spokes using Gerd Schraner's ("The Art of
> Wheelbuilding") method?
>
> I find that when I get to the second side, inserting spokes is
> impossible to do without bending them. I also find that it's tough
> not to scratch the rim.
>
> Anyone else have experience with Schraner's method?
If you're not happy with your current 'Guru', try another.
There are several other sources for wheelbuilding information, for
example:-
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html
Lewis.
*****
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Date: 08 Jun 2007 19:49:56
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Lacing Spokes Using Gerd Schraner's Method
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limeylew@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jun 8, 9:40 am, Andy Froncioni <a.fronci...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> Is there an easy way to lace spokes using Gerd Schraner's ("The Art of
>> Wheelbuilding") method?
>>
>> I find that when I get to the second side, inserting spokes is
>> impossible to do without bending them. I also find that it's tough
>> not to scratch the rim.
>>
>> Anyone else have experience with Schraner's method?
>
> If you're not happy with your current 'Guru', try another.
>
> There are several other sources for wheelbuilding information, for
> example:-
>
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html
>
> Lewis.
>
> *****
>
concur. but pay attention to the "schraner method" as well because it's
the old-school classic method of counting hub holes and it allows you to
easily position hub labels.
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Date: 08 Jun 2007 22:35:19
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Lacing Spokes Using Gerd Schraner's Method
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>> On Jun 8, 9:40 am, Andy Froncioni <a.fronci...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>> Is there an easy way to lace spokes using Gerd Schraner's ("The Art of
>>> Wheelbuilding") method?
>>> I find that when I get to the second side, inserting spokes is
>>> impossible to do without bending them. I also find that it's tough
>>> not to scratch the rim.
>>> Anyone else have experience with Schraner's method?
> limeylew@gmail.com wrote:
>> If you're not happy with your current 'Guru', try another.
>> There are several other sources for wheelbuilding information, for
>> example:-
>> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html
jim beam wrote:
> concur. but pay attention to the "schraner method" as well because it's
> the old-school classic method of counting hub holes and it allows you to
> easily position hub labels.
You don't peel off the labels?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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