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Main
Date: 29 Oct 2007 05:30:17
From: damyth
Subject: Lever placement on shallow drops?
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Every road bike I've ever worked on has had handlebar drops of 145mm
or greater. Except today. I had to assemble a bike for a petite
woman, and she got the Deda 215 shallow bars, which has a drop of
135mm.
Now I don't want to get all religious, but as a starting point, I've
always aligned the bottom tip of brake levers to the bottom plane of
the bar, as one might do on a flat surface (with >=145mm drop bars).
Most people move the lever tips maybe 1-2cm up, but I've never had to
move the lever tips below the bottom plane of the bars.
With the 135mm drop bars, using the same strategy would have made the
brake hoods ride way too high. What's the general practice of lever
placement with shallow drops?
I know some of you might say "preference," but what is standard
practice for shorter riders?
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Date: 03 Nov 2007 12:16:47
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Lever placement on shallow drops?
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On Nov 2, 4:33 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
> I set bar height based on where I'm comfortable when standing (typical when
> climbing) and on the hoods. I can still ride in the drops... if I want...
> but I'm more comfortable and feel more in control when my hands are on the
> levers on top. I will sometimes go to the drops to get out of the wind more,
> but only when on the flats. Descending I can get every bit as aero with
> hands up on top.
I guess a lot of it depends on what sort of descending. The descending
I usually do, I am more concerned with control and braking than with
ultimate aero. Tight and twisty, so usually aero isn't that important.
For the few "terminal velocity" type descents I encounter, aero is
important, but they are few and far between.
Joseph
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Date: 01 Nov 2007 10:13:07
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Lever placement on shallow drops?
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On Nov 1, 7:56 am, Morten Reippuert Knudsen <s...@reippuert.dk > wrote:
> joseph.santanie...@gmail.com <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 29, 4:56 pm, Matt O'Toole <mattoto...@letterboxes.org> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:36:57 -0700, Hank Wirtz wrote:
> >> > On Oct 28, 10:30 pm, damyth <mdk.10.dam...@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
> >> >> Every road bike I've ever worked on has had handlebar drops of 145mm
> >> >> or greater. Except today. I had to assemble a bike for a petite
> >> >> woman, and she got the Deda 215 shallow bars, which has a drop of
> >> >> 135mm.
>
> >> >> Now I don't want to get all religious, but as a starting point, I've
> >> >> always aligned the bottom tip of brake levers to the bottom plane of
> >> >> the bar, as one might do on a flat surface (with >=145mm drop bars).
> >> >> Most people move the lever tips maybe 1-2cm up, but I've never had to
> >> >> move the lever tips below the bottom plane of the bars.
>
> >> >> With the 135mm drop bars, using the same strategy would have made the
> >> >> brake hoods ride way too high. What's the general practice of lever
> >> >> placement with shallow drops?
>
> >> >> I know some of you might say "preference," but what is standard
> >> >> practice for shorter riders?
>
> >> > I think with current brake lever and handlebar design paradigms, it's
> >> > best to ignore the tips of the levers and pay attention to how the
> >> > flats of the bars transition to the tops of the hoods. I prefer to
> >> > have that be a continuous flat surface.
>
> >> > But that's just me.
>
> >> The problem with optimizing for the top is that putting the levers up too
> >> high makes the brakes too hard to reach from the drops, especially with
> >> "ergo" bars.
>
> >> Matt O.
>
> > That's why I use shallow drop bars, despite having large hands. I have
> > the hoods up high for a nice bar-hood transition, but I can still
> > operate the brakes with no problem from the drops. The shallow bars
> > also have a straight drop section which I can sit in all day long. So-
> > called ergo are hopeless in that regard IMO.
>
> I like hallow drop, short reach and a long straingt drop sectio too
> wich is why i've avoyded anatomic bend bars as well. However last year
> i bought an anatomic FRM webbar 32 which has a relatively long
> straight drop section. Almost a perfect fit. The only thing missing is
> doubble cable grooves fro ergopower.
>
> --
> Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>
>
> Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
Those look pretty good. I particularly like the top transition and how
the brifters would be nice and flat. But being gravitationaly
challenged, I shy away from carbon bars. Right now I'm using ITM Visia
Strada shallow with home made extensions on the straight drops. I
extended them by about 5cm by jamming a length of aluminum tubing in
there. Now the straight section is about 15cm. Double wrapped with Pro
bartape and I'm sitting pretty!
Joseph
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Date: 01 Nov 2007 19:50:11
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: Lever placement on shallow drops?
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joseph.santaniello@gmail.com <joseph.santaniello@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Nov 1, 7:56 am, Morten Reippuert Knudsen <s...@reippuert.dk> wrote:
>> joseph.santanie...@gmail.com <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Oct 29, 4:56 pm, Matt O'Toole <mattoto...@letterboxes.org> wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:36:57 -0700, Hank Wirtz wrote:
>> >> > On Oct 28, 10:30 pm, damyth <mdk.10.dam...@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
>> >> >> Every road bike I've ever worked on has had handlebar drops of 145mm
>> >> >> or greater. Except today. I had to assemble a bike for a petite
>> >> >> woman, and she got the Deda 215 shallow bars, which has a drop of
>> >> >> 135mm.
>>
>> >> >> Now I don't want to get all religious, but as a starting point, I've
>> >> >> always aligned the bottom tip of brake levers to the bottom plane of
>> >> >> the bar, as one might do on a flat surface (with >=145mm drop bars).
>> >> >> Most people move the lever tips maybe 1-2cm up, but I've never had to
>> >> >> move the lever tips below the bottom plane of the bars.
>>
>> >> >> With the 135mm drop bars, using the same strategy would have made the
>> >> >> brake hoods ride way too high. What's the general practice of lever
>> >> >> placement with shallow drops?
>>
>> >> >> I know some of you might say "preference," but what is standard
>> >> >> practice for shorter riders?
>>
>> >> > I think with current brake lever and handlebar design paradigms, it's
>> >> > best to ignore the tips of the levers and pay attention to how the
>> >> > flats of the bars transition to the tops of the hoods. I prefer to
>> >> > have that be a continuous flat surface.
>>
>> >> > But that's just me.
>>
>> >> The problem with optimizing for the top is that putting the levers up too
>> >> high makes the brakes too hard to reach from the drops, especially with
>> >> "ergo" bars.
>>
>> >> Matt O.
>>
>> > That's why I use shallow drop bars, despite having large hands. I have
>> > the hoods up high for a nice bar-hood transition, but I can still
>> > operate the brakes with no problem from the drops. The shallow bars
>> > also have a straight drop section which I can sit in all day long. So-
>> > called ergo are hopeless in that regard IMO.
>>
>> I like hallow drop, short reach and a long straingt drop sectio too
>> wich is why i've avoyded anatomic bend bars as well. However last year
>> i bought an anatomic FRM webbar 32 which has a relatively long
>> straight drop section. Almost a perfect fit. The only thing missing is
>> doubble cable grooves fro ergopower.
>>
>> --
>> Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>
>>
>> Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
>
> Those look pretty good. I particularly like the top transition and how
> the brifters would be nice and flat. But being gravitationaly
> challenged, I shy away from carbon bars. Right now I'm using ITM Visia
> Strada shallow with home made extensions on the straight drops. I
> extended them by about 5cm by jamming a length of aluminum tubing in
> there. Now the straight section is about 15cm. Double wrapped with Pro
> bartape and I'm sitting pretty!
They've got an aluminum version as well, which is the one i've got.
I'm not brave enough to ride carbon bar, stem, seatpost, rims, frame
etc. I'm not really shure about my fork, but i try not to think about
it.
For transmission, brake levers etc carbon is fine. Especially carbon
brake levers makes sense since the levers does't feel as cold as
aluminum. Very usefull when decending from Galibier on 3 degre celcius.
<http://www.frmbike.de/catalog/index.php?page=produkte&gruppe=22&kategorie=31&produkt=225#close >
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
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Date: 01 Nov 2007 10:09:41
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Lever placement on shallow drops?
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On Nov 1, 5:35 pm, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net > wrote:
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
> > With STI levers, by far the most-important position to optimize for is on
> > the hoods, since that's where someone's going to be a lot of the time.
> > Back in the day, when
> > you needed a death grip on the levers in order to stop, and your shifting
> > was on the down tube, spending a lot of time in the drops made more sense
> > than it does now.
>
> I wonder about this. For years, I set up bikes to be comfortable on the
> tops and "tolerable" in the drops. The last bike I set up I went higher,
> so I am "all day" comfortable in the drops. I had come back from too
> many long rides with my hands twisted into the "claw" shape from
> clinging to the hoods. Does it really make sense to set up (& design)
> bikes to have the hoods be the default position? I used to think that
> would be a dumb question, but I'm having doubts now.
I do the same. I can ride all day with straight arms in the drops, and
if I want to get lower for short periods, I can just bend my arms a
bit. With shallow drop bars, this keeps the tops from being too high
too.
I've tried Shimano, Campy, and a brief test ride on Sram, but no
matter how I try to position the levers, I can't get comfortable
enough on the hoods to want to ride there.
Joseph
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Date: 30 Oct 2007 01:39:41
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Lever placement on shallow drops?
|
On Oct 30, 12:53 am, Matt O'Toole <mattoto...@letterboxes.org > wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:49:17 -0700, joseph.santanie...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I prefer the drops when descending because (among other things) I know
> > there is zero chance of my hands slipping off if I ride through a big
> > pot-hole or something. It also seems more secure under heavy braking
> > because I feel I can get my weight further back and lower, so less endo
> > tendency.
>
> I don't know about endo tendency, but I agree about the drops being more
> secure.
>
> Also, even with a loose bar clamp, you'd be able to brake with your hands
> in the drops. We all hope our bikes are in good mechanical condition, and the
> parts fit well to begin with, but handlebars do slip.
>
> Matt O.
Indeed. Last year on a ride one of my buddies went through a huge
pothole while on the hoods. The levers held, but the bars slipped in
the stem. It was some kind of miracle he didn't get hurt. His rim was
ruined with a deep dent which gives some indication of the impact. Had
he been in the drops he may have been able to keep from crashing.
Joseph
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Date: 29 Oct 2007 15:49:17
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Lever placement on shallow drops?
|
On Oct 29, 5:43 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
> "Matt O'Toole" <mattoto...@letterboxes.org> wrote in message
>
> news:pan.2007.10.29.15.56.49.386668@letterboxes.org...
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:36:57 -0700, Hank Wirtz wrote:
>
> >> On Oct 28, 10:30 pm, damyth <mdk.10.dam...@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
> >>> Every road bike I've ever worked on has had handlebar drops of 145mm
> >>> or greater. Except today. I had to assemble a bike for a petite
> >>> woman, and she got the Deda 215 shallow bars, which has a drop of
> >>> 135mm.
>
> >>> Now I don't want to get all religious, but as a starting point, I've
> >>> always aligned the bottom tip of brake levers to the bottom plane of
> >>> the bar, as one might do on a flat surface (with >=145mm drop bars).
> >>> Most people move the lever tips maybe 1-2cm up, but I've never had to
> >>> move the lever tips below the bottom plane of the bars.
>
> >>> With the 135mm drop bars, using the same strategy would have made the
> >>> brake hoods ride way too high. What's the general practice of lever
> >>> placement with shallow drops?
>
> >>> I know some of you might say "preference," but what is standard
> >>> practice for shorter riders?
>
> >> I think with current brake lever and handlebar design paradigms, it's
> >> best to ignore the tips of the levers and pay attention to how the
> >> flats of the bars transition to the tops of the hoods. I prefer to
> >> have that be a continuous flat surface.
>
> >> But that's just me.
>
> > The problem with optimizing for the top is that putting the levers up too
> > high makes the brakes too hard to reach from the drops, especially with
> > "ergo" bars.
>
> > Matt O.
>
> Which may be why I haven't used the drops for braking for many years. Back
> in the day I descended in the drops, but now I find I'm nearly always up on
> top (and can still get just as low that way as I would on the drops). Once
> in a while I'll still go to the drops when descending (peer pressure?) but I
> really do find I'm more comfortable, and descend better, and get just as
> aero, up on top. Your chin can't go lower than your stem anyway! :>)
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
I prefer the drops when descending because (among other things) I
know there is zero chance of my hands slipping off if I ride through
a big pot-hole or something. It also seems more secure under heavy
braking because I feel I can get my weight further back and lower, so
less endo tendency.
Joseph
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Date: 29 Oct 2007 19:53:18
From: Matt O'Toole
Subject: Re: Lever placement on shallow drops?
|
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:49:17 -0700, joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:
> I prefer the drops when descending because (among other things) I know
> there is zero chance of my hands slipping off if I ride through a big
> pot-hole or something. It also seems more secure under heavy braking
> because I feel I can get my weight further back and lower, so less endo
> tendency.
I don't know about endo tendency, but I agree about the drops being more
secure.
Also, even with a loose bar clamp, you'd be able to brake with your hands
in the drops. We all hope our bikes are in good mechanical condition, and the
parts fit well to begin with, but handlebars do slip.
Matt O.
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Date: 29 Oct 2007 15:45:42
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Lever placement on shallow drops?
|
On Oct 29, 4:56 pm, Matt O'Toole <mattoto...@letterboxes.org > wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:36:57 -0700, Hank Wirtz wrote:
> > On Oct 28, 10:30 pm, damyth <mdk.10.dam...@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
> >> Every road bike I've ever worked on has had handlebar drops of 145mm
> >> or greater. Except today. I had to assemble a bike for a petite
> >> woman, and she got the Deda 215 shallow bars, which has a drop of
> >> 135mm.
>
> >> Now I don't want to get all religious, but as a starting point, I've
> >> always aligned the bottom tip of brake levers to the bottom plane of
> >> the bar, as one might do on a flat surface (with >=145mm drop bars).
> >> Most people move the lever tips maybe 1-2cm up, but I've never had to
> >> move the lever tips below the bottom plane of the bars.
>
> >> With the 135mm drop bars, using the same strategy would have made the
> >> brake hoods ride way too high. What's the general practice of lever
> >> placement with shallow drops?
>
> >> I know some of you might say "preference," but what is standard
> >> practice for shorter riders?
>
> > I think with current brake lever and handlebar design paradigms, it's
> > best to ignore the tips of the levers and pay attention to how the
> > flats of the bars transition to the tops of the hoods. I prefer to
> > have that be a continuous flat surface.
>
> > But that's just me.
>
> The problem with optimizing for the top is that putting the levers up too
> high makes the brakes too hard to reach from the drops, especially with
> "ergo" bars.
>
> Matt O.
That's why I use shallow drop bars, despite having large hands. I have
the hoods up high for a nice bar-hood transition, but I can still
operate the brakes with no problem from the drops. The shallow bars
also have a straight drop section which I can sit in all day long. So-
called ergo are hopeless in that regard IMO.
Joseph
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Date: 01 Nov 2007 07:56:35
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: Lever placement on shallow drops?
|
joseph.santaniello@gmail.com <joseph.santaniello@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Oct 29, 4:56 pm, Matt O'Toole <mattoto...@letterboxes.org> wrote:
>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:36:57 -0700, Hank Wirtz wrote:
>> > On Oct 28, 10:30 pm, damyth <mdk.10.dam...@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
>> >> Every road bike I've ever worked on has had handlebar drops of 145mm
>> >> or greater. Except today. I had to assemble a bike for a petite
>> >> woman, and she got the Deda 215 shallow bars, which has a drop of
>> >> 135mm.
>>
>> >> Now I don't want to get all religious, but as a starting point, I've
>> >> always aligned the bottom tip of brake levers to the bottom plane of
>> >> the bar, as one might do on a flat surface (with >=145mm drop bars).
>> >> Most people move the lever tips maybe 1-2cm up, but I've never had to
>> >> move the lever tips below the bottom plane of the bars.
>>
>> >> With the 135mm drop bars, using the same strategy would have made the
>> >> brake hoods ride way too high. What's the general practice of lever
>> >> placement with shallow drops?
>>
>> >> I know some of you might say "preference," but what is standard
>> >> practice for shorter riders?
>>
>> > I think with current brake lever and handlebar design paradigms, it's
>> > best to ignore the tips of the levers and pay attention to how the
>> > flats of the bars transition to the tops of the hoods. I prefer to
>> > have that be a continuous flat surface.
>>
>> > But that's just me.
>>
>> The problem with optimizing for the top is that putting the levers up too
>> high makes the brakes too hard to reach from the drops, especially with
>> "ergo" bars.
>>
>> Matt O.
>
> That's why I use shallow drop bars, despite having large hands. I have
> the hoods up high for a nice bar-hood transition, but I can still
> operate the brakes with no problem from the drops. The shallow bars
> also have a straight drop section which I can sit in all day long. So-
> called ergo are hopeless in that regard IMO.
I like hallow drop, short reach and a long straingt drop sectio too
wich is why i've avoyded anatomic bend bars as well. However last year
i bought an anatomic FRM webbar 32 which has a relatively long
straight drop section. Almost a perfect fit. The only thing missing is
doubble cable grooves fro ergopower.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
|
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Date: 29 Oct 2007 19:47:11
From: Matt O'Toole
Subject: Re: Lever placement on shallow drops?
|
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:45:42 -0700, joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:
> That's why I use shallow drop bars, despite having large hands. I have
> the hoods up high for a nice bar-hood transition, but I can still
> operate the brakes with no problem from the drops. The shallow bars
> also have a straight drop section which I can sit in all day long. So-
> called ergo are hopeless in that regard IMO.
My own bars are mildly ergo. They work fine but it took me awhile to
get used to the long reach to the brake lever. I can't imagine what the
ones with sharper bends are like, especially for someone with small hands.
For deep drop bars, the ones with a single gentle curve seem to work
better than ergo bars with two sharp angled bends.
Matt O.
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Date: 29 Oct 2007 08:36:57
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Lever placement on shallow drops?
|
On Oct 28, 10:30 pm, damyth <mdk.10.dam...@spamgourmet.com > wrote:
> Every road bike I've ever worked on has had handlebar drops of 145mm
> or greater. Except today. I had to assemble a bike for a petite
> woman, and she got the Deda 215 shallow bars, which has a drop of
> 135mm.
>
> Now I don't want to get all religious, but as a starting point, I've
> always aligned the bottom tip of brake levers to the bottom plane of
> the bar, as one might do on a flat surface (with >=145mm drop bars).
> Most people move the lever tips maybe 1-2cm up, but I've never had to
> move the lever tips below the bottom plane of the bars.
>
> With the 135mm drop bars, using the same strategy would have made the
> brake hoods ride way too high. What's the general practice of lever
> placement with shallow drops?
>
> I know some of you might say "preference," but what is standard
> practice for shorter riders?
I think with current brake lever and handlebar design paradigms, it's
best to ignore the tips of the levers and pay attention to how the
flats of the bars transition to the tops of the hoods. I prefer to
have that be a continuous flat surface.
But that's just me.
|
| | |
Date: 29 Oct 2007 11:56:52
From: Matt O'Toole
Subject: Re: Lever placement on shallow drops?
|
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:36:57 -0700, Hank Wirtz wrote:
> On Oct 28, 10:30 pm, damyth <mdk.10.dam...@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
>> Every road bike I've ever worked on has had handlebar drops of 145mm
>> or greater. Except today. I had to assemble a bike for a petite
>> woman, and she got the Deda 215 shallow bars, which has a drop of
>> 135mm.
>>
>> Now I don't want to get all religious, but as a starting point, I've
>> always aligned the bottom tip of brake levers to the bottom plane of
>> the bar, as one might do on a flat surface (with >=145mm drop bars).
>> Most people move the lever tips maybe 1-2cm up, but I've never had to
>> move the lever tips below the bottom plane of the bars.
>>
>> With the 135mm drop bars, using the same strategy would have made the
>> brake hoods ride way too high. What's the general practice of lever
>> placement with shallow drops?
>>
>> I know some of you might say "preference," but what is standard
>> practice for shorter riders?
>
> I think with current brake lever and handlebar design paradigms, it's
> best to ignore the tips of the levers and pay attention to how the
> flats of the bars transition to the tops of the hoods. I prefer to
> have that be a continuous flat surface.
>
> But that's just me.
The problem with optimizing for the top is that putting the levers up too
high makes the brakes too hard to reach from the drops, especially with
"ergo" bars.
Matt O.
|
| | | |
Date: 29 Oct 2007 09:43:56
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Lever placement on shallow drops?
|
"Matt O'Toole" <mattotoole@letterboxes.org > wrote in message
news:pan.2007.10.29.15.56.49.386668@letterboxes.org...
> On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:36:57 -0700, Hank Wirtz wrote:
>
>> On Oct 28, 10:30 pm, damyth <mdk.10.dam...@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
>>> Every road bike I've ever worked on has had handlebar drops of 145mm
>>> or greater. Except today. I had to assemble a bike for a petite
>>> woman, and she got the Deda 215 shallow bars, which has a drop of
>>> 135mm.
>>>
>>> Now I don't want to get all religious, but as a starting point, I've
>>> always aligned the bottom tip of brake levers to the bottom plane of
>>> the bar, as one might do on a flat surface (with >=145mm drop bars).
>>> Most people move the lever tips maybe 1-2cm up, but I've never had to
>>> move the lever tips below the bottom plane of the bars.
>>>
>>> With the 135mm drop bars, using the same strategy would have made the
>>> brake hoods ride way too high. What's the general practice of lever
>>> placement with shallow drops?
>>>
>>> I know some of you might say "preference," but what is standard
>>> practice for shorter riders?
>>
>> I think with current brake lever and handlebar design paradigms, it's
>> best to ignore the tips of the levers and pay attention to how the
>> flats of the bars transition to the tops of the hoods. I prefer to
>> have that be a continuous flat surface.
>>
>> But that's just me.
>
> The problem with optimizing for the top is that putting the levers up too
> high makes the brakes too hard to reach from the drops, especially with
> "ergo" bars.
>
> Matt O.
Which may be why I haven't used the drops for braking for many years. Back
in the day I descended in the drops, but now I find I'm nearly always up on
top (and can still get just as low that way as I would on the drops). Once
in a while I'll still go to the drops when descending (peer pressure?) but I
really do find I'm more comfortable, and descend better, and get just as
aero, up on top. Your chin can't go lower than your stem anyway! : >)
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
|
| |
Date: 29 Oct 2007 00:02:01
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Lever placement on shallow drops?
|
"damyth" <mdk.10.damyth@spamgourmet.com > wrote in message
news:1193635817.931017.298810@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Every road bike I've ever worked on has had handlebar drops of 145mm
> or greater. Except today. I had to assemble a bike for a petite
> woman, and she got the Deda 215 shallow bars, which has a drop of
> 135mm.
>
> Now I don't want to get all religious, but as a starting point, I've
> always aligned the bottom tip of brake levers to the bottom plane of
> the bar, as one might do on a flat surface (with >=145mm drop bars).
> Most people move the lever tips maybe 1-2cm up, but I've never had to
> move the lever tips below the bottom plane of the bars.
>
> With the 135mm drop bars, using the same strategy would have made the
> brake hoods ride way too high. What's the general practice of lever
> placement with shallow drops?
>
> I know some of you might say "preference," but what is standard
> practice for shorter riders?
I just took a look at my daughter's bike, which is representative of how
they're set up in general at our shop. The bottom of the lever extends a bit
more than 1cm below the bottom of the bar. This *still* places the brake
lever pretty high up, which tends to be the most-comfortable position up top
for most.
I think you'll find yourself doing a lot more shallow bars in the future.
For many, they're simply more comfortable, and allow people to actually use
the drops which, before, were simply ornamental because they were too low
and not easy for them to use.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
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| | |
Date: 29 Oct 2007 01:02:33
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Lever placement on shallow drops?
|
In article
<KzfVi.9495$Pv2.6105@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net >,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
> "damyth" <mdk.10.damyth@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message
> news:1193635817.931017.298810@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> > Every road bike I've ever worked on has had handlebar drops of 145mm
> > or greater. Except today. I had to assemble a bike for a petite
> > woman, and she got the Deda 215 shallow bars, which has a drop of
> > 135mm.
> >
> > Now I don't want to get all religious, but as a starting point, I've
> > always aligned the bottom tip of brake levers to the bottom plane of
> > the bar, as one might do on a flat surface (with >=145mm drop bars).
> > Most people move the lever tips maybe 1-2cm up, but I've never had to
> > move the lever tips below the bottom plane of the bars.
> >
> > With the 135mm drop bars, using the same strategy would have made the
> > brake hoods ride way too high. What's the general practice of lever
> > placement with shallow drops?
> >
> > I know some of you might say "preference," but what is standard
> > practice for shorter riders?
>
> I just took a look at my daughter's bike, which is representative of how
> they're set up in general at our shop. The bottom of the lever extends a bit
> more than 1cm below the bottom of the bar. This *still* places the brake
> lever pretty high up, which tends to be the most-comfortable position up top
> for most.
>
> I think you'll find yourself doing a lot more shallow bars in the future.
> For many, they're simply more comfortable, and allow people to actually use
> the drops which, before, were simply ornamental because they were too low
> and not easy for them to use.
I often hear that the drops are too low to use,
but not from professionals; until now.
Drops too low? Raise the stem. What is the problem?
A rider who cannot shift his position 6 inches up and down?
--
Michael Press
|
| | | |
Date: 29 Oct 2007 08:38:15
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Lever placement on shallow drops?
|
>> > I know some of you might say "preference," but what is standard
>> > practice for shorter riders?
>>
>> I just took a look at my daughter's bike, which is representative of how
>> they're set up in general at our shop. The bottom of the lever extends a
>> bit
>> more than 1cm below the bottom of the bar. This *still* places the brake
>> lever pretty high up, which tends to be the most-comfortable position up
>> top
>> for most.
>>
>> I think you'll find yourself doing a lot more shallow bars in the future.
>> For many, they're simply more comfortable, and allow people to actually
>> use
>> the drops which, before, were simply ornamental because they were too low
>> and not easy for them to use.
>
> I often hear that the drops are too low to use,
> but not from professionals; until now.
>
> Drops too low? Raise the stem. What is the problem?
> A rider who cannot shift his position 6 inches up and down?
>
> --
> Michael Press
With STI levers, by far the most-important position to optimize for is on
the hoods, since that's where someone's going to be a lot of the time. Get
that figured out and then see what can be done (bar-shape) to make the drops
more comfortable. And yes, there are many, not a few people, for whom a 6"
drop (change in hand position) is more than they're comfortable with. STI
changed the rules, but many haven't figured that out. Back in the day, when
you needed a death grip on the levers in order to stop, and your shifting
was on the down tube, spending a lot of time in the drops made more sense
than it does now.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
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| | | | |
Date: 01 Nov 2007 12:35:21
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Lever placement on shallow drops?
|
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
> With STI levers, by far the most-important position to optimize for is on
> the hoods, since that's where someone's going to be a lot of the time.
> Back in the day, when
> you needed a death grip on the levers in order to stop, and your shifting
> was on the down tube, spending a lot of time in the drops made more sense
> than it does now.
I wonder about this. For years, I set up bikes to be comfortable on the
tops and "tolerable" in the drops. The last bike I set up I went higher,
so I am "all day" comfortable in the drops. I had come back from too
many long rides with my hands twisted into the "claw" shape from
clinging to the hoods. Does it really make sense to set up (& design)
bikes to have the hoods be the default position? I used to think that
would be a dumb question, but I'm having doubts now.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 02 Nov 2007 00:27:59
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Lever placement on shallow drops?
|
In article
<Z-qdnZ2UApjanbfanZ2dnUVZ_r-vnZ2d@comcast.com >,
Peter Cole <peter_cole@comcast.net > wrote:
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >
> > With STI levers, by far the most-important position to optimize for is on
> > the hoods, since that's where someone's going to be a lot of the time.
>
>
> > Back in the day, when
> > you needed a death grip on the levers in order to stop, and your shifting
> > was on the down tube, spending a lot of time in the drops made more sense
> > than it does now.
>
> I wonder about this. For years, I set up bikes to be comfortable on the
> tops and "tolerable" in the drops. The last bike I set up I went higher,
> so I am "all day" comfortable in the drops. I had come back from too
> many long rides with my hands twisted into the "claw" shape from
> clinging to the hoods. Does it really make sense to set up (& design)
> bikes to have the hoods be the default position? I used to think that
> would be a dumb question, but I'm having doubts now.
That is what I have maintained all along.
Try tilting the bars so that when you are
in the drops on the straight, your arms are
mostly perpendicular to the straight.
--
Michael Press
|
| | | | |
Date: 31 Oct 2007 00:43:50
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Lever placement on shallow drops?
|
In article <I7nVi.3391$Vx3.1006@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com >,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
> >> > I know some of you might say "preference," but what is standard
> >> > practice for shorter riders?
> >>
> >> I just took a look at my daughter's bike, which is representative of how
> >> they're set up in general at our shop. The bottom of the lever extends a
> >> bit
> >> more than 1cm below the bottom of the bar. This *still* places the brake
> >> lever pretty high up, which tends to be the most-comfortable position up
> >> top
> >> for most.
> >>
> >> I think you'll find yourself doing a lot more shallow bars in the future.
> >> For many, they're simply more comfortable, and allow people to actually
> >> use
> >> the drops which, before, were simply ornamental because they were too low
> >> and not easy for them to use.
> >
> > I often hear that the drops are too low to use,
> > but not from professionals; until now.
> >
> > Drops too low? Raise the stem. What is the problem?
> > A rider who cannot shift his position 6 inches up and down?
> >
> > --
> > Michael Press
>
> With STI levers, by far the most-important position to optimize for is on
> the hoods, since that's where someone's going to be a lot of the time. Get
> that figured out and then see what can be done (bar-shape) to make the drops
> more comfortable. And yes, there are many, not a few people, for whom a 6"
> drop (change in hand position) is more than they're comfortable with. STI
> changed the rules, but many haven't figured that out. Back in the day, when
> you needed a death grip on the levers in order to stop, and your shifting
> was on the down tube, spending a lot of time in the drops made more sense
> than it does now.
It is a shame to give up those two positions:
* In the hooks.
* At the ends.
The ends are excellent for road shock absorption.
Road racers are flexible enough to use brake lever
shifters. Everyone else who has flexibility problems
and wants bar top shifters needs to raise the bar.
They have little use for the reduction of wind
resistance gained from lowering the bars 2-4 cm. Put
the bars up high enough, and the drops feel great. Put
the bars too low, and standing in the hoods feels wrong.
--
Michael Press
|
| | | | | |
Date: 02 Nov 2007 03:33:36
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Lever placement on shallow drops?
|
> Road racers are flexible enough to use brake lever
> shifters. Everyone else who has flexibility problems
> and wants bar top shifters needs to raise the bar.
> They have little use for the reduction of wind
> resistance gained from lowering the bars 2-4 cm. Put
> the bars up high enough, and the drops feel great. Put
> the bars too low, and standing in the hoods feels wrong.
>
> --
> Michael Press
I set bar height based on where I'm comfortable when standing (typical when
climbing) and on the hoods. I can still ride in the drops... if I want...
but I'm more comfortable and feel more in control when my hands are on the
levers on top. I will sometimes go to the drops to get out of the wind more,
but only when on the flats. Descending I can get every bit as aero with
hands up on top.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"Michael Press" <rubrum@pacbell.net > wrote in message
news:rubrum-A29AC7.17435030102007@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
> In article <I7nVi.3391$Vx3.1006@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>,
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>> >> > I know some of you might say "preference," but what is standard
>> >> > practice for shorter riders?
>> >>
>> >> I just took a look at my daughter's bike, which is representative of
>> >> how
>> >> they're set up in general at our shop. The bottom of the lever extends
>> >> a
>> >> bit
>> >> more than 1cm below the bottom of the bar. This *still* places the
>> >> brake
>> >> lever pretty high up, which tends to be the most-comfortable position
>> >> up
>> >> top
>> >> for most.
>> >>
>> >> I think you'll find yourself doing a lot more shallow bars in the
>> >> future.
>> >> For many, they're simply more comfortable, and allow people to
>> >> actually
>> >> use
>> >> the drops which, before, were simply ornamental because they were too
>> >> low
>> >> and not easy for them to use.
>> >
>> > I often hear that the drops are too low to use,
>> > but not from professionals; until now.
>> >
>> > Drops too low? Raise the stem. What is the problem?
>> > A rider who cannot shift his position 6 inches up and down?
>> >
>> > --
>> > Michael Press
>>
>> With STI levers, by far the most-important position to optimize for is on
>> the hoods, since that's where someone's going to be a lot of the time.
>> Get
>> that figured out and then see what can be done (bar-shape) to make the
>> drops
>> more comfortable. And yes, there are many, not a few people, for whom a
>> 6"
>> drop (change in hand position) is more than they're comfortable with. STI
>> changed the rules, but many haven't figured that out. Back in the day,
>> when
>> you needed a death grip on the levers in order to stop, and your shifting
>> was on the down tube, spending a lot of time in the drops made more sense
>> than it does now.
>
> It is a shame to give up those two positions:
>
> * In the hooks.
> * At the ends.
>
> The ends are excellent for road shock absorption.
>
> Road racers are flexible enough to use brake lever
> shifters. Everyone else who has flexibility problems
> and wants bar top shifters needs to raise the bar.
> They have little use for the reduction of wind
> resistance gained from lowering the bars 2-4 cm. Put
> the bars up high enough, and the drops feel great. Put
> the bars too low, and standing in the hoods feels wrong.
>
> --
> Michael Press
|
|
