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Date: 15 Oct 2007 00:16:58
From: Ivar Hesselager
Subject: Lost parallelograms?
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I have been taking a close look at V-brakes, since those that sit on my
winterbike have become slow, craving frequent adjustment and service.
Looking in last years catalogues I chose Deore XT with the model no.
BR-M760. The reason for that choice was the technological advantage of
the parallelogram pushing the brakepad to the rim in a 90 degree angle -
plus the "Ultegra level" price of luxory within reason. (44 euro/pair)
But these brakes turned out to be out of the shelves of many of the shops
I normally deal with. They offer a new 2008 version of the Deore XT
V-brake - WITHOUT the parallelogram. If I want paralellogram in a 2008
version, I have to move up to the XTR model, which to me is luxory beyond
reason. (100 euros/pair)
If I keep looking I suppose I will be able to find last years luxory of XT
brakes with parallelograms. Byt why is Shimano stepping down instead of up
in the 2008 version of Deore XT V-brakes.
It is an unwritten rule, that there must be a little progress in every
years new model, and that the technology spreads down from the top to the
secondary groupsets.
Is anything wron with the parallelogram technology? Why has Shimano
stepped down to the old more simple technology?
Ivar of Denmark
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Date: 16 Oct 2007 01:10:05
From: Ivar Hesselager
Subject: Re: Lost parallelograms?
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Thanks for warnings, theories and suggestions. I think a set of Magura HS
11 (or even 33) can be justified on my winter commuting bicycle, which is
supposed to bring me trough 2500 slippery kilometres of Nordic darkness
between November and April. I hope my Mrs will understand the need of
investing 140 euros in safety equipment.
It's an amazing amount of insight that can be collected in this newsgroup
within a few hours.
I appreciate that.
Ivar of Denmark
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 22:15:52
From: Ned Mantei
Subject: Re: Lost parallelograms?
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In article <op.tz7j6km81c91w4@d3q5wk2j >,
"Ivar Hesselager" <ivar.hesselager@medie.dk > wrote:
snip
>Is anything wron with the parallelogram technology? Why has Shimano
>stepped down to the old more simple technology?
My XT front brakes, from 2003, didn't just squeal, but rather provided a
veritable organ concert, with both high and low-pitched tones. I ride a
lot near alpine meadows, and didn't want to scare the cows. Nothing
helped except giving up and changing to cheap Deore brakes.
--
Ned Mantei
Zurich, Switzerland
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 19:10:06
From: Lou Holtman
Subject: Re: Lost parallelograms?
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Ivar Hesselager wrote:
>
> I have been taking a close look at V-brakes, since those that sit on my
> winterbike have become slow, craving frequent adjustment and service.
> Looking in last years catalogues I chose Deore XT with the model no.
> BR-M760. The reason for that choice was the technological advantage of
> the parallelogram pushing the brakepad to the rim in a 90 degree angle -
> plus the "Ultegra level" price of luxory within reason. (44 euro/pair)
>
> But these brakes turned out to be out of the shelves of many of the
> shops I normally deal with. They offer a new 2008 version of the Deore
> XT V-brake - WITHOUT the parallelogram. If I want paralellogram in a
> 2008 version, I have to move up to the XTR model, which to me is luxory
> beyond reason. (100 euros/pair)
>
> If I keep looking I suppose I will be able to find last years luxory of
> XT brakes with parallelograms. Byt why is Shimano stepping down instead
> of up in the 2008 version of Deore XT V-brakes.
>
> It is an unwritten rule, that there must be a little progress in every
> years new model, and that the technology spreads down from the top to
> the secondary groupsets.
>
> Is anything wron with the parallelogram technology? Why has Shimano
> stepped down to the old more simple technology?
>
>
> Ivar of Denmark
>
It is no step down. They realize that now.
Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu (http://www.nb.nu)
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 14:15:21
From: Steve Watkin
Subject: Re: Lost parallelograms?
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Try looking at Magura rim brakes, parallel push, nice "feel", and very low
maintenance. I've got HS11 on my tourer and I'm well pleased.
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 15:12:40
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: Lost parallelograms?
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"Steve Watkin" <steve.watkin1@btinternet.com > wrote in message
news:8YadnZehtLRv-o7anZ2dnUVZ8vydnZ2d@bt.com...
> Try looking at Magura rim brakes, parallel push, nice "feel", and very low
> maintenance. I've got HS11 on my tourer and I'm well pleased.
HS33 have more lever travel per pad travel, so offer stronger braking. Given
that the HS11/66 have loads of lever travel available/spare, I'd seriously
consider going to the 33s.
cheers,
clive
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 18:49:19
From: Steve Watkin
Subject: Re: Lost parallelograms?
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HS33 have more lever travel per pad travel, so offer stronger braking. Given
that the HS11/66 have loads of lever travel available/spare, I'd seriously
consider going to the 33s.
______________________________________________
Are you sure? I was not aware of this. I thought they were both the same.
But if you are right that would go some way to explaining the differance in
price.
Must say the HS11s have plenty of pad movement and good modulation. Never
felt any different to the HS33s I've tried.
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 19:05:10
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: Lost parallelograms?
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"Steve Watkin" <steve.watkin1@btinternet.com > wrote in message
news:yr2dnUrzlb61NY7a4p2dnAA@bt.com...
> HS33 have more lever travel per pad travel, so offer stronger braking.
> Given
> that the HS11/66 have loads of lever travel available/spare, I'd seriously
> consider going to the 33s.
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Are you sure? I was not aware of this. I thought they were both the same.
> But if you are right that would go some way to explaining the differance
> in price.
> Must say the HS11s have plenty of pad movement and good modulation. Never
> felt any different to the HS33s I've tried.
The HS33 have slightly less (25%?) pad movement, purely because their master
cylinders are a bit smaller. I think they realised they were being a bit
conservative with their original brakes (11/22/66), allowing more pad
movement than is necessary, and could afford to change the mechanical
advantage a bit.
You'll note I said "seriously consider" - doesn't mean you actually need to
do it :-)
(Pity they never did the same for the 66s, and, worse, dropped the line
completely. I wouldn't mind a bit more mechanical advantage.)
cheers,
clive
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 15:27:44
From: _
Subject: Re: Lost parallelograms?
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On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:12:40 +0100, Clive George wrote:
> "Steve Watkin" <steve.watkin1@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:8YadnZehtLRv-o7anZ2dnUVZ8vydnZ2d@bt.com...
>> Try looking at Magura rim brakes, parallel push, nice "feel", and very low
>> maintenance. I've got HS11 on my tourer and I'm well pleased.
>
> HS33 have more lever travel per pad travel, so offer stronger braking.
...for some definitions of "stronger"...
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 16:37:46
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: Lost parallelograms?
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"_" <jtayNOSPAMlor@hfDONTSENDMESPAMx.andara.com > wrote in message
news:3x63hoz9ff5l$.1up0hswj7h238.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:12:40 +0100, Clive George wrote:
>
>> "Steve Watkin" <steve.watkin1@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>> news:8YadnZehtLRv-o7anZ2dnUVZ8vydnZ2d@bt.com...
>>> Try looking at Magura rim brakes, parallel push, nice "feel", and very
>>> low
>>> maintenance. I've got HS11 on my tourer and I'm well pleased.
>>
>> HS33 have more lever travel per pad travel, so offer stronger braking.
>
> ...for some definitions of "stronger"...
In adverse conditions, they will offer additional force which can be used.
The reduced load on the hands also aids control.
Happy now?
clive
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Date: 14 Oct 2007 17:44:48
From:
Subject: Re: Lost parallelograms?
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On Oct 14, 6:16 pm, "Ivar Hesselager" <ivar.hessela...@medie.dk >
wrote:
>
> It is an unwritten rule, that there must be a little progress in every
> years new model, and that the technology spreads down from the top to the
> secondary groupsets.
With Shimano (and others) I think a better statement would be: It is
an unwritten rule that a new gimmick will be tried every year. Some
gimmicks will entice enough buyers to continue in production. Other
gimmicks will not, and will be replaced by new gimmicks.
Shimano has a long history of such gimmicks.
> Is anything wron with the parallelogram technology?
There was no significant advantage. And my one friend who bought
those was troubled by embarrassing brake squeal.
> Why has Shimano
> stepped down to the old more simple technology?
The main reason was probably that it didn't attract enough buyers.
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 14 Oct 2007 19:08:18
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Lost parallelograms?
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Ivar Hesselager wrote:
> I have been taking a close look at V-brakes, since those that sit on my
> winterbike have become slow, craving frequent adjustment and service.
> Looking in last years catalogues I chose Deore XT with the model no.
> BR-M760. The reason for that choice was the technological advantage of
> the parallelogram pushing the brakepad to the rim in a 90 degree angle -
> plus the "Ultegra level" price of luxory within reason. (44 euro/pair)
>
> But these brakes turned out to be out of the shelves of many of the
> shops I normally deal with. They offer a new 2008 version of the Deore
> XT V-brake - WITHOUT the parallelogram. If I want paralellogram in a
> 2008 version, I have to move up to the XTR model, which to me is luxory
> beyond reason. (100 euros/pair)
>
> If I keep looking I suppose I will be able to find last years luxory of
> XT brakes with parallelograms. Byt why is Shimano stepping down instead
> of up in the 2008 version of Deore XT V-brakes.
>
> It is an unwritten rule, that there must be a little progress in every
> years new model, and that the technology spreads down from the top to
> the secondary groupsets.
>
> Is anything wron with the parallelogram technology? Why has Shimano
> stepped down to the old more simple technology?
In theory, as you note, it seemed cool if possibly excessive.
In practice they have not proved durable nor any better at stopping a bike.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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