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Main
Date: 04 Nov 2007 18:10:57
From: Jack Sprat
Subject: My bike EXPLODED!
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I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
exploded on me
I could have been KILLED!
I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and
was incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I
could break my neck and DIE!
Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
again?
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
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Date: 10 Nov 2007 11:33:24
From:
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
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On Nov 4, 7:10 pm, Jack Sprat <J...@Sprat.com > wrote:
> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
> exploded on me
>
> I could have been KILLED!
>
> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and
> was incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>
> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
> point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I
> could break my neck and DIE!
>
> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
> again?
>
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpghttp://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpghttp://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpghttp://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpghttp://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
i have to tell you. the stress and the cut is too sharp. it was the
stress of the shock that started it all. also next time do not by a
mongoose! go with giants, treks or specialized. another good idea is
to get rid of the other nice components you have on ebay. you can get
$400-$600 for what you have there and then get a nice use giant bike
regards,
carlos
www.bikingthings.com
Get Faster, Enjoy Cycling, Get Fit, Live Better.
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Date: 08 Nov 2007 16:55:24
From: Scott Gordo
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
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On Nov 7, 11:26 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net > wrote:
> Jack Sprat wrote:
> > "jim beam" <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> >news:X6idnVHXcLiSoazanZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> >> Jack Sprat wrote:
> >>> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
> >>> exploded on me
> >> no way dude.
>
> >> 1. that bike is not 60 days old.
> >> 2. tubes don't fail in multiple locations "jra". once something is
> >> broken, there is no means by which to exert force to break in a second
> >> location!!!
>
> > I have the reciept from PerformanceBike in hand. It was purchased on August
> > 30, 2007 and ridden 2 -3 hours every Sunday until it died on Nov 4.
>
> > Do you want me to scan in the reciept for you? Would that convince you?
>
> not that this bike had "exploded" after only 10 rides, no.
>
> now, returning to the failure, if you succeed in getting a replacement,
> i would not ride it. the way that frame is configured, the down tube is
> subject to a bending moment with the bottle mounting bolt positioned
> precisely where it can maximize the probability of initiating fatigue.
> as indeed it did. in fact, i would go as far as saying that that frame
> design is fundamentally flawed because of it.
>
> as to the rest of the failure, there's no way that frame spontaneously
> broke into 3 pieces. once a tube has broken once, there's no more force
> that can be exerted to break it in a second place. i believe the frame
> broke at the down tube. and if you continued to ride, maybe at the head
> tube too. but the 3rd break? nah, that was deliberate.
>
> for the future, get the giant - giant know about fatigue.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'll entertain. (With all the "CSI-yourcityheres", this post is
approaching the point of warranting a "CSI-R.B.T.").
1. rider compresses suspension,
2. down tube cracks at weld at water bottle mount,
3. front end of bike rapidly moves away from rear end of bike,
snapping top tube near head tube,
4. rear end of frame, weighted by rider, digs into ground, snapping
the rear part of the top tube,
5. kid on a grassy knoll with a pellet gun mistakes downed rider for a
large squirrel, shoots, misses, nicks out piece of suspension cradle,
Every show ends with a group shudder, and one of the characters
saying, "All I can say is, I'm glad my bike is made of steel."
/s
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Date: 08 Nov 2007 16:37:54
From: Scott Gordo
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On Nov 7, 6:32 pm, Jack Sprat <J...@Sprat.com > wrote:
> Just an update (and a warning),
>
> The PerformanceBike store has refused to honor the Warranty on this
> bike citing "crash damage". I replied that of course I crashed when
> the frame broke apart. The store manager was unmoved.
>
> I'll see if I don't have better luck with PerfomanceBike corporate.
> They're sending me a return label, I have to box it up and mail it
> back and then see if they'll honor their warranty.
>
> I'll keep you posted,
>
> J.
>
>
>
> Jack Sprat wrote:
> > I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
> > exploded on me
>
> > I could have been KILLED!
>
> > I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
> > was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and
> > was incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
> > destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>
> > I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
> > point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I
> > could break my neck and DIE!
>
> > Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
> > again?
>
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Did they cite "crash damage" in liew of "EXPLODED!"?
Scott "Hey! Watch yer language!" Gordo
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Date: 07 Nov 2007 18:48:31
From: damyth
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On Nov 7, 3:32 pm, Jack Sprat <J...@Sprat.com > wrote:
> Just an update (and a warning),
>
> The PerformanceBike store has refused to honor the Warranty on this
> bike citing "crash damage". I replied that of course I crashed when
> the frame broke apart. The store manager was unmoved.
>
> I'll see if I don't have better luck with PerfomanceBike corporate.
> They're sending me a return label, I have to box it up and mail it
> back and then see if they'll honor their warranty.
>
> I'll keep you posted,
>
> J.
>
> Jack Sprat wrote:
> > I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
> > exploded on me
>
> > I could have been KILLED!
>
> > I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
> > was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and
> > was incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
> > destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>
> > I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
> > point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I
> > could break my neck and DIE!
>
> > Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
> > again?
>
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
Exactly what did Performance shop people say? Did they even attempt
to explain what kind of "crash" might cause this kind of damage? Or
did they just say "You must have crashed," end of story kind of way?
In a way it's almost too bad you weren't seriously injured. Assuming
the bike cost and the damage to you is less than $5K, your only
recourse would be small claims (takes a long time and almost not worth
the effort, no "expert witnesses" allowed afaik). I'd think you'd
have better luck with CPSC.
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Date: 08 Nov 2007 07:31:21
From: M-gineering
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
>>Jack Sprat <J...@Sprat.com> wrote:
>> Just an update (and a warning),
>>
>> The PerformanceBike store has refused to honor the Warranty on this
>> bike citing "crash damage". I replied that of course I crashed when
>> the frame broke apart. The store manager was unmoved.
>>
>> I'll see if I don't have better luck with PerfomanceBike corporate.
>> They're sending me a return label, I have to box it up and mail it
>> back and then see if they'll honor their warranty.
>>
before sending it off and getting rid of all the evidence I'd take some
pictures with the surfaces of the crack in the downtube clearly visible
/Marten
info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
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Date: 07 Nov 2007 23:06:25
From:
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 18:48:31 -0800, damyth
<mdk.10.damyth@spamgourmet.com > wrote:
>In a way it's almost too bad you weren't seriously injured. Assuming
>the bike cost and the damage to you is less than $5K, your only
>recourse would be small claims (takes a long time and almost not worth
>the effort, no "expert witnesses" allowed afaik). I'd think you'd
>have better luck with CPSC.
Don't know about the US system, but in Canada expert witnesses ARE
allowed in Small Claims Court.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 07 Nov 2007 17:32:28
From: Jack Sprat
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
Just an update (and a warning),
The PerformanceBike store has refused to honor the Warranty on this
bike citing "crash damage". I replied that of course I crashed when
the frame broke apart. The store manager was unmoved.
I'll see if I don't have better luck with PerfomanceBike corporate.
They're sending me a return label, I have to box it up and mail it
back and then see if they'll honor their warranty.
I'll keep you posted,
J.
Jack Sprat wrote:
> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
> exploded on me
>
> I could have been KILLED!
>
> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and
> was incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>
> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
> point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I
> could break my neck and DIE!
>
> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
> again?
>
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
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Date: 07 Nov 2007 23:23:25
From: Dennis P. Harris
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:32:28 -0600 in rec.bicycles.tech, Jack
Sprat <Jack@Sprat.com > wrote:
> The PerformanceBike store has refused to honor the Warranty on this
> bike citing "crash damage". I replied that of course I crashed when
> the frame broke apart. The store manager was unmoved.
>
See if he's unmoved if you have a lawyer write them a letter
demanding a refund.
A letter on an attorney's letterhead is ALWAYS taken seriously,
especially when the attorney indicates that the failure of the
bike could have resulted in an expensive injury.
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Date: 07 Nov 2007 23:10:13
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
> Just an update (and a warning),
>
> The PerformanceBike store has refused to honor the Warranty on this
> bike citing "crash damage". I replied that of course I crashed when
> the frame broke apart. The store manager was unmoved.
Was there other evidence of crash damage that wouldn't have been caused by
the frame's failure? Bent rims, blown-apart tires, components bent in a way
that a self-destructing frame might not account for? Damage to the front
fork? There are all manner of indications of a serious crash (not caused by
failure of a defective frame) that might be seen. And I don't think anyone's
yet asked the question, had this bike been in previous crashes?
As always, it's amazing how much knowledge people can gain about something
on the Internet, based upon knowing very little. But I guess that's the fun
thing about the 'net. You can find supporters for any possible conclusion,
based on any possible evidence.
On the other hand, if the evidence (seen first-hand) truly indicates a
defective frame and not contributory negligence or whatever, then the shop
is being really stupid sending it back for someone else to take a look at
it. Always best to take care of things like this as quickly as possible, if
it appears to be legit. Stalling for time nearly always works against the
shop.
> I'll see if I don't have better luck with PerfomanceBike corporate.
> They're sending me a return label, I have to box it up and mail it
> back and then see if they'll honor their warranty.
I don't understand why this isn't being handled locally. Did you purchase
the bike at the local Performance store, or on-line? And even if on-line, it
seems strange to not allow it to be sent back via the local store.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"Jack Sprat" <Jack@Sprat.com > wrote in message
news:47324b05$0$1651$ed362ca5@nr3.newsreader.com...
> Just an update (and a warning),
>
> The PerformanceBike store has refused to honor the Warranty on this
> bike citing "crash damage". I replied that of course I crashed when
> the frame broke apart. The store manager was unmoved.
>
> I'll see if I don't have better luck with PerfomanceBike corporate.
> They're sending me a return label, I have to box it up and mail it
> back and then see if they'll honor their warranty.
>
> I'll keep you posted,
>
> J.
>
> Jack Sprat wrote:
>> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
>> exploded on me
>>
>> I could have been KILLED!
>>
>> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
>> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and was
>> incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
>> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>>
>> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
>> point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I could
>> break my neck and DIE!
>>
>> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
>> again?
>>
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
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Date: 08 Nov 2007 13:40:12
From: Jack Sprat
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com > wrote in message
news:rDyYi.1184$0Q5.6@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
> Was there other evidence of crash damage that wouldn't have been caused by
> the frame's failure? Bent rims, blown-apart tires, components bent in a
> way that a self-destructing frame might not account for? Damage to the
> front fork? There are all manner of indications of a serious crash (not
> caused by failure of a defective frame) that might be seen.
Well the front rim was taco-ed because I landed on it when the frame
shattered (and it's a good thing too, it was the only thing that saved my
life), other than that you've got the pictures, you be the judge.
The thing is I had gone back to the Performance store on Sunday immediatly
after the crash but the manager wasn't there. I showed the store empolyees
the broken bicycle sitting in my trunk, but they never took it out and
looked at it. When I got a chance to see the manager on Wednesday, I didn't
even get a chance to set it down on the floor before he was saying "There's
nothing I can do", or "You must have hit it with your truck" (note: I don't
even own a truck). He'd already made up his mind before I even got there.
He didn't even look at it.
> And I don't think anyone's yet asked the question, had this bike been in
> previous crashes?
Well I've had the front wheel slide out from under me in a couple of times
in sandy switchbacks, but I've never run into anything or impacted anything
so, no I wouldn't consider myself to have had previous crashes.
> I don't understand why this isn't being handled locally. Did you purchase
> the bike at the local Performance store, or on-line? And even if on-line,
> it seems strange to not allow it to be sent back via the local store.
I went into the store and picked up the "Red Phone" and placed the order.
My understanding is by doing that it became a phone order through corporate,
and when I asked the corporate customer service representitive how the store
manager could whimsically ignore the corporate 100% Satisfaction Guarantee,
she said that the stores were seperate from the mail-order business and were
under no obligation to do anything with orders from the mail-order side ...
even if the order was placed on the red-phone right in the store! Caveat
emperor!
-Jack
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Date: 08 Nov 2007 22:14:59
From: Leo Lichtman
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
In dealing with corporate customer service, it wouldn't hurt if you provided
them with a print-out the relevant discussion in this thread.
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| | | | | |
Date: 10 Nov 2007 02:01:21
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
> In dealing with corporate customer service, it wouldn't hurt if you
> provided them with a print-out the relevant discussion in this thread.
You're hoping that somebody at Performance is dumb enough to not recognize
that this newgroup is inhabited by the lunatic fringe (myself included)?
If the idea is to come up with some sort of "norm" for how things should
work, this, I daresay, is not the place. You have to become expert at
differentiating between content and noise, and making sure your own biases
aren't allowing you to happily note that you're right because others agree
with you, instead of looking at things from a differing perspective.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"Leo Lichtman" <l.lichtman@worldnet.att.net > wrote in message
news:DTLYi.7228$if6.1032@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> In dealing with corporate customer service, it wouldn't hurt if you
> provided them with a print-out the relevant discussion in this thread.
>
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Date: 08 Nov 2007 13:56:30
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
Jack Sprat wrote:
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote in message
> news:rDyYi.1184$0Q5.6@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> Was there other evidence of crash damage that wouldn't have been caused by
>> the frame's failure? Bent rims, blown-apart tires, components bent in a
>> way that a self-destructing frame might not account for? Damage to the
>> front fork? There are all manner of indications of a serious crash (not
>> caused by failure of a defective frame) that might be seen.
>
> Well the front rim was taco-ed because I landed on it when the frame
> shattered (and it's a good thing too, it was the only thing that saved my
> life), other than that you've got the pictures, you be the judge.
>
> The thing is I had gone back to the Performance store on Sunday immediatly
> after the crash but the manager wasn't there. I showed the store empolyees
> the broken bicycle sitting in my trunk, but they never took it out and
> looked at it. When I got a chance to see the manager on Wednesday, I didn't
> even get a chance to set it down on the floor before he was saying "There's
> nothing I can do", or "You must have hit it with your truck" (note: I don't
> even own a truck). He'd already made up his mind before I even got there.
> He didn't even look at it.
>
>> And I don't think anyone's yet asked the question, had this bike been in
>> previous crashes?
>
> Well I've had the front wheel slide out from under me in a couple of times
> in sandy switchbacks, but I've never run into anything or impacted anything
> so, no I wouldn't consider myself to have had previous crashes.
>
>> I don't understand why this isn't being handled locally. Did you purchase
>> the bike at the local Performance store, or on-line? And even if on-line,
>> it seems strange to not allow it to be sent back via the local store.
>
> I went into the store and picked up the "Red Phone" and placed the order.
> My understanding is by doing that it became a phone order through corporate,
> and when I asked the corporate customer service representitive how the store
> manager could whimsically ignore the corporate 100% Satisfaction Guarantee,
> she said that the stores were seperate from the mail-order business and were
> under no obligation to do anything with orders from the mail-order side ...
> even if the order was placed on the red-phone right in the store! Caveat
> emperor!
Yes, and watch out for imperious attitudes as well.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 06 Nov 2007 20:16:14
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
Jack Sprat wrote:
> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
> exploded on me
no way dude.
1. that bike is not 60 days old.
2. tubes don't fail in multiple locations "jra". once something is
broken, there is no means by which to exert force to break in a second
location!!!
>
> I could have been KILLED!
>
> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and
> was incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>
> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
> point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I
> could break my neck and DIE!
>
> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
> again?
>
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
what do i think? you bought an old used bike. it cracked, and you got
mad, deliberately breaking it in other locations.
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| | |
Date: 08 Nov 2007 06:21:44
From: Fred Clydesdale
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
In article <X6idnVHXcLiSoazanZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@speakeasy.net >,
jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net > wrote:
> 1. that bike is not 60 days old.
> 2. tubes don't fail in multiple locations "jra". once something is
> broken, there is no means by which to exert force to break in a second
> location!!!
>
> what do i think? you bought an old used bike. it cracked, and you got
> mad, deliberately breaking it in other locations.
ladies & gentlemen, i present to you the next jobst brandt! the king
is dead, long live the king!
|
| | |
Date: 07 Nov 2007 15:16:26
From: Jack Sprat
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net > wrote in message
news:X6idnVHXcLiSoazanZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> Jack Sprat wrote:
>> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
>> exploded on me
>
> no way dude.
>
> 1. that bike is not 60 days old.
> 2. tubes don't fail in multiple locations "jra". once something is
> broken, there is no means by which to exert force to break in a second
> location!!!
>
I have the reciept from PerformanceBike in hand. It was purchased on August
30, 2007 and ridden 2 -3 hours every Sunday until it died on Nov 4.
Do you want me to scan in the reciept for you? Would that convince you?
-Jack
|
| | | |
Date: 07 Nov 2007 20:26:32
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
Jack Sprat wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:X6idnVHXcLiSoazanZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>> Jack Sprat wrote:
>>> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
>>> exploded on me
>> no way dude.
>>
>> 1. that bike is not 60 days old.
>> 2. tubes don't fail in multiple locations "jra". once something is
>> broken, there is no means by which to exert force to break in a second
>> location!!!
>>
>
> I have the reciept from PerformanceBike in hand. It was purchased on August
> 30, 2007 and ridden 2 -3 hours every Sunday until it died on Nov 4.
>
> Do you want me to scan in the reciept for you? Would that convince you?
>
not that this bike had "exploded" after only 10 rides, no.
now, returning to the failure, if you succeed in getting a replacement,
i would not ride it. the way that frame is configured, the down tube is
subject to a bending moment with the bottle mounting bolt positioned
precisely where it can maximize the probability of initiating fatigue.
as indeed it did. in fact, i would go as far as saying that that frame
design is fundamentally flawed because of it.
as to the rest of the failure, there's no way that frame spontaneously
broke into 3 pieces. once a tube has broken once, there's no more force
that can be exerted to break it in a second place. i believe the frame
broke at the down tube. and if you continued to ride, maybe at the head
tube too. but the 3rd break? nah, that was deliberate.
for the future, get the giant - giant know about fatigue.
|
| | | | |
Date: 11 Nov 2007 17:38:23
From: Jasper Janssen
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 20:26:32 -0800, jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net >
wrote:
>not that this bike had "exploded" after only 10 rides, no.
>
>now, returning to the failure, if you succeed in getting a replacement,
>i would not ride it. the way that frame is configured, the down tube is
>subject to a bending moment with the bottle mounting bolt positioned
>precisely where it can maximize the probability of initiating fatigue.
>as indeed it did. in fact, i would go as far as saying that that frame
>design is fundamentally flawed because of it.
>
>as to the rest of the failure, there's no way that frame spontaneously
>broke into 3 pieces.
He *crashed*, dude.
>once a tube has broken once, there's no more force
>that can be exerted to break it in a second place.
That's just not true in a crash. For example, if the front break in the
toptube happened first, then he was still sitting on a saddle attached to
that tube, and it could hit the ground, providing leverage for the second
break.
>i believe the frame
>broke at the down tube. and if you continued to ride, maybe at the head
>tube too. but the 3rd break? nah, that was deliberate.
Bullshit. I'm not sure it's even *possible* to break a frametube
deliberately. Certainly impossible by hand, possibly if you set the
remainder up against a log and jump on it or something. But that would be
damn hard to arrange with the break going in the plane of the frame, as
opposed to perpendicular to it.
Jasper
|
| | | |
Date: 07 Nov 2007 22:05:24
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
Jack Sprat wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:X6idnVHXcLiSoazanZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>> Jack Sprat wrote:
>>> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
>>> exploded on me
>> no way dude.
>>
>> 1. that bike is not 60 days old.
>> 2. tubes don't fail in multiple locations "jra". once something is
>> broken, there is no means by which to exert force to break in a second
>> location!!!
>>
>
> I have the reciept from PerformanceBike in hand. It was purchased on August
> 30, 2007 and ridden 2 -3 hours every Sunday until it died on Nov 4.
>
> Do you want me to scan in the reciept for you? Would that convince you?
"jim beam" is infallible (in his own mind).
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Tradition is the worst rational for action.
|
| | |
Date: 07 Nov 2007 18:50:23
From: still me
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 20:16:14 -0800, jim beam
<spamvortex@bad.example.net > wrote:
>Jack Sprat wrote:
>> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
>> exploded on me
>
>no way dude.
>
>1. that bike is not 60 days old.
>2. tubes don't fail in multiple locations "jra". once something is
>broken, there is no means by which to exert force to break in a second
>location!!!
I'm too lazy to read the whole thread. Has anyone said "that wouldn't
happen with a traditional steel frame" yet ?
If not, let's throw it in now.
|
| | | |
Date: 08 Nov 2007 12:40:41
From: John Thompson
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On 2007-11-07, still me <wheeledBob@yahoo.com > wrote:
> I'm too lazy to read the whole thread. Has anyone said "that wouldn't
> happen with a traditional steel frame" yet ?
>
> If not, let's throw it in now.
Ok, I'll bite. A traditional steel frame would likely have failed in a
different manner. The downtube would fail more slowly, perhaps giving
the rider a warning that something was not right before it completely
failed. And then the top tube would more likely buckle than fail
outright like the Al tube.
--
John (john@os2.dhs.org)
|
| |
Date: 06 Nov 2007 18:42:45
From: DanKMTB@gmail.com
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On Nov 6, 1:06 pm, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com > wrote:
> A Muzi wrote:
>
> > Can I then assume that any Ford vehicle, like a Focus, will be
> > as quick as an Aston Martin, sleek as a Jaguar and as tough as a Volvo?
> > All Ford-owned, right?
>
> Have you noticed how much some of the new Jags look like Ford Tauruses
> wearing cheap Halloween XJ6 costumes?
>
> Chalo
Yes. Have you been inside one since Ford bought them? Same cheesy
plastic everywhere interior, too. Att the same price I'd almost
rather have the Contour, at least everyone that looked at me wouldn't
immediately write me off as being a bit slow. Damn shame too, they
used to be really nice cars to look at, sit in and drive (though they
were always a bit of a PITA ownership wise).
|
| | |
Date: 06 Nov 2007 15:16:08
From:
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 18:42:45 -0000, "DanKMTB@gmail.com"
<DanKMTB@gmail.com > wrote:
>On Nov 6, 1:06 pm, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> A Muzi wrote:
>>
>> > Can I then assume that any Ford vehicle, like a Focus, will be
>> > as quick as an Aston Martin, sleek as a Jaguar and as tough as a Volvo?
>> > All Ford-owned, right?
>>
>> Have you noticed how much some of the new Jags look like Ford Tauruses
>> wearing cheap Halloween XJ6 costumes?
>>
>> Chalo
>
>Yes. Have you been inside one since Ford bought them? Same cheesy
>plastic everywhere interior, too. Att the same price I'd almost
>rather have the Contour, at least everyone that looked at me wouldn't
>immediately write me off as being a bit slow. Damn shame too, they
>used to be really nice cars to look at, sit in and drive (though they
>were always a bit of a PITA ownership wise).
Just like the contour/mondeo/mystique.
Beautiful to drive, particularly the loaed V6 - but a pain to service.
Kinda like a '90's version of a Rover TC.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | |
Date: 06 Nov 2007 13:24:43
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
>> A Muzi wrote:
>>> Can I then assume that any Ford vehicle, like a Focus, will be
>>> as quick as an Aston Martin, sleek as a Jaguar and as tough as a Volvo?
>>> All Ford-owned, right?
> Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Have you noticed how much some of the new Jags look like Ford Tauruses
>> wearing cheap Halloween XJ6 costumes?
DanKMTB@gmail.com wrote:
> Yes. Have you been inside one since Ford bought them? Same cheesy
> plastic everywhere interior, too. Att the same price I'd almost
> rather have the Contour, at least everyone that looked at me wouldn't
> immediately write me off as being a bit slow. Damn shame too, they
> used to be really nice cars to look at, sit in and drive (though they
> were always a bit of a PITA ownership wise).
I used to crew for an SCCA Super Seven long ago whose pre-race tuning
sometimes included rewelding broken bits, for example the master
cylinder mounts. 'Exciting' has many variants as does the threshold for
'PITA'. Fun, fast car IMHO!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | |
Date: 06 Nov 2007 11:34:27
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote in message
news:13j1fp97ei9odbd@corp.supernews.com...
>
> I used to crew for an SCCA Super Seven long ago whose pre-race tuning
> Andrew Muzi
Interesting, which region?
-tom
|
| | | | |
Date: 06 Nov 2007 14:00:05
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
> "A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
> news:13j1fp97ei9odbd@corp.supernews.com...
>> I used to crew for an SCCA Super Seven long ago whose pre-race tuning
Tom Nakashima wrote:
> Interesting, which region?
SCCA finals at Road Atlanta (Braselton) late '70s, early '80s
(bicycle mechanics are not available in-season, but spare welders are a
handy thing to bring along with a Lotus)
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | | | |
Date: 06 Nov 2007 12:40:22
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote in message
news:13j1hrj7rbccl8f@corp.supernews.com...
>> "A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
>> news:13j1fp97ei9odbd@corp.supernews.com...
>>> I used to crew for an SCCA Super Seven long ago whose pre-race tuning
>
> Tom Nakashima wrote:
>> Interesting, which region?
>
> SCCA finals at Road Atlanta (Braselton) late '70s, early '80s
> (bicycle mechanics are not available in-season, but spare welders are a
> handy thing to bring along with a Lotus)
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
I remember the Lotus Super 7, my favorite cars to watch on the
track. San Francisco region in the early 80's with my 65 Shelby
Cobra.
-tom
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 06 Nov 2007 15:17:05
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
>>> "A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
>>> news:13j1fp97ei9odbd@corp.supernews.com...
>>>> I used to crew for an SCCA Super Seven long ago whose pre-race tuning
>> Tom Nakashima wrote:
>>> Interesting, which region?
> "A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote
>> SCCA finals at Road Atlanta (Braselton) late '70s, early '80s
>> (bicycle mechanics are not available in-season, but spare welders are a
>> handy thing to bring along with a Lotus)
Tom Nakashima wrote:
> I remember the Lotus Super 7, my favorite cars to watch on the
> track. San Francisco region in the early 80's with my 65 Shelby
> Cobra.
Greg Meeker would have loved to see that Shelby Cobra!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 06 Nov 2007 13:24:57
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote in message
news:13j1mbutjokv978@corp.supernews.com...
>>>> "A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
>>>> news:13j1fp97ei9odbd@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>> I used to crew for an SCCA Super Seven long ago whose pre-race tuning
>
>>> Tom Nakashima wrote:
>>>> Interesting, which region?
>
>> "A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote
>>> SCCA finals at Road Atlanta (Braselton) late '70s, early '80s
>>> (bicycle mechanics are not available in-season, but spare welders are a
>>> handy thing to bring along with a Lotus)
>
> Tom Nakashima wrote:
>> I remember the Lotus Super 7, my favorite cars to watch on the
>> track. San Francisco region in the early 80's with my 65 Shelby
>> Cobra.
>
> Greg Meeker would have loved to see that Shelby Cobra!
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
It was pretty ratty, bunch of us young wanna-be street racers who
thought we could hold our own on the track. I was the worst driver
out of our bunch, but pretty good with a wrench.
SCCA Class -B- Production, SF region.
Expensive for us young guys.
Then got into bicycle racing, much cheaper and easier to maintain.
Now I'm just an oldie who sometimes likes to mix it up with some of
the young ones on the climbs with a steel frame bike.
-tom
|
| |
Date: 06 Nov 2007 10:38:58
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On Nov 6, 10:06 am, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com > wrote:
> A Muzi wrote:
>
> > Can I then assume that any Ford vehicle, like a Focus, will be
> > as quick as an Aston Martin, sleek as a Jaguar and as tough as a Volvo?
> > All Ford-owned, right?
>
> Have you noticed how much some of the new Jags look like Ford Tauruses
> wearing cheap Halloween XJ6 costumes?
>
> Chalo
Not Tauruses, Contours. Both the Contour and the Jaguar X-types (And
the Mercury Mistake, er, Mystique) are designed around the Ford Mondeo
platform.
|
| |
Date: 06 Nov 2007 18:06:18
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
A Muzi wrote:
>
> Can I then assume that any Ford vehicle, like a Focus, will be
> as quick as an Aston Martin, sleek as a Jaguar and as tough as a Volvo?
> All Ford-owned, right?
Have you noticed how much some of the new Jags look like Ford Tauruses
wearing cheap Halloween XJ6 costumes?
Chalo
|
| |
Date: 06 Nov 2007 07:17:29
From:
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On Nov 6, 12:43 am, Kevin McMurtrie <mcmur...@dslextreme.com > wrote:
> In article <472e5f7b$0$1638$ed362...@nr3.newsreader.com>,
> Jack Sprat <J...@Sprat.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
> > exploded on me
>
> > I could have been KILLED!
>
> > I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
> > was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and
> > was incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
> > destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>
> > I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
> > point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I
> > could break my neck and DIE!
>
> > Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
> > again?
>
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
>
> The top tube has bent edges so it's not the first one that snapped. The
> bottom tube has a clean break from pulling apart.
>
> If I'm looking at that geometry correctly, the frame has 4 corners
> instead of a strong triangle. If you slammed on the brakes, that weby
> thing over the shock would have flexed. That puts a lot of pulling
> strain right where the top water bottle bolt is. The bolts aren't
> reinforced so they probably had cracks around them from water bottles,
> pumps, etc. shaking around.
>
> It looks like a very bad design to me.
>
> I'm going to take a careful look at my bike's geometry now...
I doubt it. If you look at the second picture, you can see that the
down tube ripped around the outside of the rivnut. If this was caused
by a crack propagating out from the edge of the drilled hole there
wouldn't still be a piece of metal clamped in there. It would have
come out with the other side of the tube. A crack propagating down
from the shock web however would hit the rivet and turn to follow
along the edge. Especially on a relatively new frame where the rivets
haven't had time to loosen up much. Also, under hard braking or big
frontal impacts the riders weight goes to the pedals and bars. The
rear wheel, seat tube, and rear suspension are mostly unloaded while
the top of the down tube gets pulled in tension by the imposed bending
load.
|
| |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 21:43:36
From: Kevin McMurtrie
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
In article <472e5f7b$0$1638$ed362ca5@nr3.newsreader.com >,
Jack Sprat <Jack@Sprat.com > wrote:
> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
> exploded on me
>
> I could have been KILLED!
>
> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and
> was incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>
> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
> point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I
> could break my neck and DIE!
>
> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
> again?
>
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
The top tube has bent edges so it's not the first one that snapped. The
bottom tube has a clean break from pulling apart.
If I'm looking at that geometry correctly, the frame has 4 corners
instead of a strong triangle. If you slammed on the brakes, that weby
thing over the shock would have flexed. That puts a lot of pulling
strain right where the top water bottle bolt is. The bolts aren't
reinforced so they probably had cracks around them from water bottles,
pumps, etc. shaking around.
It looks like a very bad design to me.
I'm going to take a careful look at my bike's geometry now...
|
| |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 19:35:47
From: Colin Campbell
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
Jack Sprat wrote:
> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
> exploded on me
>
> I could have been KILLED!
>
> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and
> was incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>
> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
> point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I
> could break my neck and DIE!
>
> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
> again?
>
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
It's not like a true Texan to cry over a little thing like this! Cowboy up!
Oh, and it's a mountain bike - they all do that, I think. That's why
I've never ridden one.
Just kidding!
|
| | |
Date: 06 Nov 2007 06:10:00
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
Colin Campbell wrote:
> Jack Sprat wrote:
>> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
>> exploded on me
>>
>> I could have been KILLED!
>>
>> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my
>> weight was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously
>> crashed and was incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My
>> helmet was also destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>>
>> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
>> point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I
>> could break my neck and DIE!
>>
>> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could
>> happen again?
>>
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
>
> It's not like a true Texan to cry over a little thing like this! Cowboy
> up!
>
> Oh, and it's a mountain bike - they all do that, I think. That's why
> I've never ridden one....
Sabotage by He Who Must Not Be Named?
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Tradition is the worst rational for action.
|
| | | |
Date: 06 Nov 2007 15:42:24
From: Steve Gravrock
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On 2007-11-06, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com > wrote:
> Colin Campbell wrote:
>> Jack Sprat wrote:
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
>>
>> It's not like a true Texan to cry over a little thing like this! Cowboy
>> up!
>>
>> Oh, and it's a mountain bike - they all do that, I think. That's why
>> I've never ridden one....
>
> Sabotage by He Who Must Not Be Named?
No, no, the damage is due to too many whipsnake carcasses hitting the
down tube.
|
| | |
Date: 06 Nov 2007 06:30:06
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
In article <472fe0f4$0$5007$4c368faf@roadrunner.com >,
Colin Campbell <cmcampb@adelphia.net > wrote:
> Jack Sprat wrote:
> > I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
> > exploded on me
> >
> > I could have been KILLED!
> >
> > I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
> > was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and
> > was incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
> > destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
> >
> > I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
> > point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I
> > could break my neck and DIE!
> >
> > Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
> > again?
> >
> > http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> > http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> > http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> > http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> > http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
>
> It's not like a true Texan to cry over a little thing like this! Cowboy up!
>
> Oh, and it's a mountain bike - they all do that, I think. That's why
> I've never ridden one.
>
> Just kidding!
And well done, sir. :)
--
Michael Press
|
| |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 15:50:38
From: damyth
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On Nov 5, 2:49 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> >>>>> "Jack Sprat" <J...@Sprat.com> wrote
> >>>>>> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
> >>>>>> exploded on me
> >>>>>> I could have been KILLED!
> >>>>>> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
> >>>>>> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and was
> >>>>>> incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
> >>>>>> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
> >>>>>> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this point
> >>>>>> I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I could break
> >>>>>> my neck and DIE!
> >>>>>> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
> >>>>>> again?
> >>>>>>http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> >>>>>>http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> >>>>>>http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> >>>>>>http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> >>>>>>http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
> >>>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >>>>> Check it out. It's "Made in Taiwan".
> >>>>>http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> >>>>> Your computer's hardware is probably made in Taiwan. Possibly China. And
> >>>>> I'll bet the hardware's been pretty reliable. That's as far as I'm going.
> >>> A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>> Mike makes a good point. Free China (ROC Taiwan) can indeed do top
> >>>> quality work. And does.
> >>>> So far no one has commented on the vendor, Mongoose. Maybe not so much.
> >> Scott Gordo wrote:
> >>> Well, Mongoose is owned by Pacific, as is Schwinn, GT, and Banshee. I
> >>> know a bunch of freeriders who really do trust their lives to Banshees
> >>> -- they ride pucker-inducing stuff I wouldn't want to decend without
> >>> ropes and a belay. This Mongoose's design is borrowed from GT's latest
> >>> iteration of their I-drive, which has been around since the late 90's
> >>> and has been successful enough.
> >>> It could be that the GT has a heavier gauge downtube or better
> >>> materials or whatever, but unless Walmart is stepping up their game
> >>> this Mongoose wasn't purchased there. Maybe not quite a rebadged GT,
> >>> but close enough design-wise.
> >>> I should add that nobody's going to heap praise on a Pacific, but it
> >>> is a huge brand and therefore has the money to put into R&D.
> >>> Theoretically, the upper-end bikes are top quality. Like I said, if I
> >>> had the cojones for the nasty stuff, I'd take a long look at Banshee.
> >>> It's easy to rail against it, but mass production is great MOST of the
> >>> time. When it's not, though....
> > A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >> I'm no expert but a quick search turns up comments like:
> >> "Mongoose Caanan Team
> >> This bike is light! The spec list is unbelievable for the price! I know
> >> I should be looking at the frame not the spec, but you gotta admit, this
> >> is a pretty nice kitted out bike. Some of the reviews seem to say the
> >> bike rides less than the sum of it's parts, also I can't find any
> >> warrently information on this bike"
> >> from:http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=310546
> >> You seem to imply some meaning to the ownership of Mongoose and other
> >> holdings. Can I then assume that any Ford vehicle, like a Focus, will be
> >> as quick as an Aston Martin, sleek as a Jaguar and as tough as a Volvo?
> >> All Ford-owned, right?
> Scott Gordo wrote:
> > In a way. The newer Jags use the same chassis as a Lincoln LS, for
> > example.
> > The divisions divisions compete, naturally, but for the sake of
> > keeping corporate costs down they're going to share certain tech and
> > methods (which, beyond the sticker rights, is a sizeable part of the
> > point of buying another company, isn't it?) I could be wrong, but if
> > they're not identical, I'd bet that the same engineers who designed
> > the GT line of I-drives also designed the Mongeese. Same as LeMond
> > using Trek's OCLV CF or Klien using Trek's ZR aluminum.
> > Getting back to Pacific, I'd have to assume that their frames are
> > coming from the same factory, and that their mid- and top-level frames
> > are likely assembled on the same lines as well.
> > So maybe a GT downtube is made of 5mm thick Easton RAD aluminum, maybe
> > it's Mongoose brother gets .001 recycled Coke cans?
>
> Well done. OK now we need an expert. Any Pacific, Schwinn, GT, Mongoose
> dealers out there today? Channeling Sam Walton...
> --
> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
How about Performance Bicycles? Aren't they a Schwinn dealer?
|
| |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 23:20:40
From: Leo Lichtman
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
One of your pictures shows the crack running parallel to a weld. This area
is affected by the welding heat, and is known to all welders as the "heat
affected zone." It is so well known and so often referred to that they
call it the HAZ for short. It looks to me like someone forgot to heat treat
the frame after welding. In addition, the mass of the weld is excessive
compared to the thinwall tubing, resulting, as others have pointed out, in a
stress *raiser* (not "riser.") Add the water bottle mount to the mix, which
is also a stress raiser, and the bike "exploded." BTW, Ted, this was a
figure of speech by the OP. We know that bikes don't literally explode,
though it may feel like it when the front wheel encounters a sudden backward
push at the bottom of a hill, and everything else continues forward.
I would say that a recall on this batch of frames may be coming. If someone
crashes in the same way and gets hurt, how the lawyers would LOVE to point
out that it wasn't the first time.
|
| |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 22:03:23
From: Scott Gordo
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On Nov 5, 4:10 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> >>> "Jack Sprat" <J...@Sprat.com> wrote
> >>>> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
> >>>> exploded on me
> >>>> I could have been KILLED!
> >>>> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
> >>>> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and was
> >>>> incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
> >>>> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
> >>>> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this point
> >>>> I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I could break
> >>>> my neck and DIE!
> >>>> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
> >>>> again?
> >>>>http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> >>>>http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> >>>>http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> >>>>http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> >>>>http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
> >> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >>> Check it out. It's "Made in Taiwan".
> >>>http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> >>> Your computer's hardware is probably made in Taiwan. Possibly China. And
> >>> I'll bet the hardware's been pretty reliable. That's as far as I'm going.
> > A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >> Mike makes a good point. Free China (ROC Taiwan) can indeed do top
> >> quality work. And does.
> >> So far no one has commented on the vendor, Mongoose. Maybe not so much.
> Scott Gordo wrote:
> > Well, Mongoose is owned by Pacific, as is Schwinn, GT, and Banshee. I
> > know a bunch of freeriders who really do trust their lives to Banshees
> > -- they ride pucker-inducing stuff I wouldn't want to decend without
> > ropes and a belay. This Mongoose's design is borrowed from GT's latest
> > iteration of their I-drive, which has been around since the late 90's
> > and has been successful enough.
>
> > It could be that the GT has a heavier gauge downtube or better
> > materials or whatever, but unless Walmart is stepping up their game
> > this Mongoose wasn't purchased there. Maybe not quite a rebadged GT,
> > but close enough design-wise.
>
> > I should add that nobody's going to heap praise on a Pacific, but it
> > is a huge brand and therefore has the money to put into R&D.
> > Theoretically, the upper-end bikes are top quality. Like I said, if I
> > had the cojones for the nasty stuff, I'd take a long look at Banshee.
> > It's easy to rail against it, but mass production is great MOST of the
> > time. When it's not, though....
>
> I'm no expert but a quick search turns up comments like:
>
> "Mongoose Caanan Team
> This bike is light! The spec list is unbelievable for the price! I know
> I should be looking at the frame not the spec, but you gotta admit, this
> is a pretty nice kitted out bike. Some of the reviews seem to say the
> bike rides less than the sum of it's parts, also I can't find any
> warrently information on this bike"
>
> from:http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=310546
>
> You seem to imply some meaning to the ownership of Mongoose and other
> holdings. Can I then assume that any Ford vehicle, like a Focus, will be
> as quick as an Aston Martin, sleek as a Jaguar and as tough as a Volvo?
> All Ford-owned, right?
> --
> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
In a way. The newer Jags use the same chassis as a Lincoln LS, for
example.
The divisions divisions compete, naturally, but for the sake of
keeping corporate costs down they're going to share certain tech and
methods (which, beyond the sticker rights, is a sizeable part of the
point of buying another company, isn't it?) I could be wrong, but if
they're not identical, I'd bet that the same engineers who designed
the GT line of I-drives also designed the Mongeese. Same as LeMond
using Trek's OCLV CF or Klien using Trek's ZR aluminum.
Getting back to Pacific, I'd have to assume that their frames are
coming from the same factory, and that their mid- and top-level frames
are likely assembled on the same lines as well.
So maybe a GT downtube is made of 5mm thick Easton RAD aluminum, maybe
it's Mongoose brother gets .001 recycled Coke cans?
/s
|
| | |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 16:49:32
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
>>>>> "Jack Sprat" <J...@Sprat.com> wrote
>>>>>> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
>>>>>> exploded on me
>>>>>> I could have been KILLED!
>>>>>> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
>>>>>> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and was
>>>>>> incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
>>>>>> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>>>>>> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this point
>>>>>> I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I could break
>>>>>> my neck and DIE!
>>>>>> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
>>>>>> again?
>>>>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
>>>>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
>>>>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
>>>>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
>>>>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
>>>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>>> Check it out. It's "Made in Taiwan".
>>>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
>>>>> Your computer's hardware is probably made in Taiwan. Possibly China. And
>>>>> I'll bet the hardware's been pretty reliable. That's as far as I'm going.
>>> A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>> Mike makes a good point. Free China (ROC Taiwan) can indeed do top
>>>> quality work. And does.
>>>> So far no one has commented on the vendor, Mongoose. Maybe not so much.
>> Scott Gordo wrote:
>>> Well, Mongoose is owned by Pacific, as is Schwinn, GT, and Banshee. I
>>> know a bunch of freeriders who really do trust their lives to Banshees
>>> -- they ride pucker-inducing stuff I wouldn't want to decend without
>>> ropes and a belay. This Mongoose's design is borrowed from GT's latest
>>> iteration of their I-drive, which has been around since the late 90's
>>> and has been successful enough.
>>> It could be that the GT has a heavier gauge downtube or better
>>> materials or whatever, but unless Walmart is stepping up their game
>>> this Mongoose wasn't purchased there. Maybe not quite a rebadged GT,
>>> but close enough design-wise.
>>> I should add that nobody's going to heap praise on a Pacific, but it
>>> is a huge brand and therefore has the money to put into R&D.
>>> Theoretically, the upper-end bikes are top quality. Like I said, if I
>>> had the cojones for the nasty stuff, I'd take a long look at Banshee.
>>> It's easy to rail against it, but mass production is great MOST of the
>>> time. When it's not, though....
> A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> I'm no expert but a quick search turns up comments like:
>> "Mongoose Caanan Team
>> This bike is light! The spec list is unbelievable for the price! I know
>> I should be looking at the frame not the spec, but you gotta admit, this
>> is a pretty nice kitted out bike. Some of the reviews seem to say the
>> bike rides less than the sum of it's parts, also I can't find any
>> warrently information on this bike"
>> from:http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=310546
>> You seem to imply some meaning to the ownership of Mongoose and other
>> holdings. Can I then assume that any Ford vehicle, like a Focus, will be
>> as quick as an Aston Martin, sleek as a Jaguar and as tough as a Volvo?
>> All Ford-owned, right?
Scott Gordo wrote:
> In a way. The newer Jags use the same chassis as a Lincoln LS, for
> example.
> The divisions divisions compete, naturally, but for the sake of
> keeping corporate costs down they're going to share certain tech and
> methods (which, beyond the sticker rights, is a sizeable part of the
> point of buying another company, isn't it?) I could be wrong, but if
> they're not identical, I'd bet that the same engineers who designed
> the GT line of I-drives also designed the Mongeese. Same as LeMond
> using Trek's OCLV CF or Klien using Trek's ZR aluminum.
> Getting back to Pacific, I'd have to assume that their frames are
> coming from the same factory, and that their mid- and top-level frames
> are likely assembled on the same lines as well.
> So maybe a GT downtube is made of 5mm thick Easton RAD aluminum, maybe
> it's Mongoose brother gets .001 recycled Coke cans?
Well done. OK now we need an expert. Any Pacific, Schwinn, GT, Mongoose
dealers out there today? Channeling Sam Walton...
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 20:48:37
From: Scott Gordo
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On Nov 5, 2:22 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> > "Jack Sprat" <J...@Sprat.com> wrote
> >> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
> >> exploded on me
> >> I could have been KILLED!
> >> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
> >> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and was
> >> incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
> >> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
> >> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this point
> >> I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I could break
> >> my neck and DIE!
> >> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
> >> again?
> >>http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> >>http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> >>http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> >>http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> >>http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> > Check it out. It's "Made in Taiwan".
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> > Your computer's hardware is probably made in Taiwan. Possibly China. And
> > I'll bet the hardware's been pretty reliable. That's as far as I'm going.
>
> Mike makes a good point. Free China (ROC Taiwan) can indeed do top
> quality work. And does.
>
> So far no one has commented on the vendor, Mongoose. Maybe not so much.
> --
> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well, Mongoose is owned by Pacific, as is Schwinn, GT, and Banshee. I
know a bunch of freeriders who really do trust their lives to Banshees
-- they ride pucker-inducing stuff I wouldn't want to decend without
ropes and a belay. This Mongoose's design is borrowed from GT's latest
iteration of their I-drive, which has been around since the late 90's
and has been successful enough.
It could be that the GT has a heavier gauge downtube or better
materials or whatever, but unless Walmart is stepping up their game
this Mongoose wasn't purchased there. Maybe not quite a rebadged GT,
but close enough design-wise.
I should add that nobody's going to heap praise on a Pacific, but it
is a huge brand and therefore has the money to put into R&D.
Theoretically, the upper-end bikes are top quality. Like I said, if I
had the cojones for the nasty stuff, I'd take a long look at Banshee.
It's easy to rail against it, but mass production is great MOST of the
time. When it's not, though....
/s
|
| | |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 15:10:24
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
>>> "Jack Sprat" <J...@Sprat.com> wrote
>>>> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
>>>> exploded on me
>>>> I could have been KILLED!
>>>> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
>>>> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and was
>>>> incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
>>>> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>>>> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this point
>>>> I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I could break
>>>> my neck and DIE!
>>>> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
>>>> again?
>>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
>>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
>>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
>>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
>>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>> Check it out. It's "Made in Taiwan".
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
>>> Your computer's hardware is probably made in Taiwan. Possibly China. And
>>> I'll bet the hardware's been pretty reliable. That's as far as I'm going.
> A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> Mike makes a good point. Free China (ROC Taiwan) can indeed do top
>> quality work. And does.
>> So far no one has commented on the vendor, Mongoose. Maybe not so much.
Scott Gordo wrote:
> Well, Mongoose is owned by Pacific, as is Schwinn, GT, and Banshee. I
> know a bunch of freeriders who really do trust their lives to Banshees
> -- they ride pucker-inducing stuff I wouldn't want to decend without
> ropes and a belay. This Mongoose's design is borrowed from GT's latest
> iteration of their I-drive, which has been around since the late 90's
> and has been successful enough.
>
> It could be that the GT has a heavier gauge downtube or better
> materials or whatever, but unless Walmart is stepping up their game
> this Mongoose wasn't purchased there. Maybe not quite a rebadged GT,
> but close enough design-wise.
>
> I should add that nobody's going to heap praise on a Pacific, but it
> is a huge brand and therefore has the money to put into R&D.
> Theoretically, the upper-end bikes are top quality. Like I said, if I
> had the cojones for the nasty stuff, I'd take a long look at Banshee.
> It's easy to rail against it, but mass production is great MOST of the
> time. When it's not, though....
I'm no expert but a quick search turns up comments like:
"Mongoose Caanan Team
This bike is light! The spec list is unbelievable for the price! I know
I should be looking at the frame not the spec, but you gotta admit, this
is a pretty nice kitted out bike. Some of the reviews seem to say the
bike rides less than the sum of it's parts, also I can't find any
warrently information on this bike"
from:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=310546
You seem to imply some meaning to the ownership of Mongoose and other
holdings. Can I then assume that any Ford vehicle, like a Focus, will be
as quick as an Aston Martin, sleek as a Jaguar and as tough as a Volvo?
All Ford-owned, right?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | |
Date: 06 Nov 2007 11:16:19
From: Ben Micklem
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
in article 13iv1jea9gusiad@corp.supernews.com, A Muzi at am@yellowjersey.org
wrote on 5/11/07 21:10:
> Can I then assume that any Ford vehicle, like a Focus, will be
> as quick as an Aston Martin, sleek as a Jaguar and as tough as a Volvo?
> All Ford-owned, right?
It's OT, but your information is out of date. Aston Martin was bought by
consortium earlier this year:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/224445/
|
| | | | |
Date: 06 Nov 2007 11:31:51
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
> A Muzi at am@yellowjersey.org wrote :
>> Can I then assume that any Ford vehicle, like a Focus, will be
>> as quick as an Aston Martin, sleek as a Jaguar and as tough as a Volvo?
>> All Ford-owned, right?
Ben Micklem wrote:
> It's OT, but your information is out of date. Aston Martin was bought by
> consortium earlier this year:
> http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/224445/
oops. thanks.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 15:59:05
From: vey
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
Scott Gordo wrote:
>
> It could be that the GT has a heavier gauge downtube or better
> materials or whatever, but unless Walmart is stepping up their game
> this Mongoose wasn't purchased there. Maybe not quite a rebadged GT,
> but close enough design-wise.
>
> I should add that nobody's going to heap praise on a Pacific, but it
> is a huge brand and therefore has the money to put into R&D.
> Theoretically, the upper-end bikes are top quality. Like I said, if I
> had the cojones for the nasty stuff, I'd take a long look at Banshee.
> It's easy to rail against it, but mass production is great MOST of the
> time. When it's not, though....
>
> /s
>
They charge $2,000-3,000 for these Canaan Elite bikes.
|
| |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 12:05:01
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
"Jack Sprat" <Jack@Sprat.com > wrote in message
news:472e5f7b$0$1638$ed362ca5@nr3.newsreader.com...
>I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
>exploded on me
>
> I could have been KILLED!
>
Could have been the Cosa Nostra.
Put a bomb underneath your bottom bracket shell for riding a
non-Italian bike.
-tom
|
| |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 18:25:31
From: Scott Gordo
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On Nov 5, 12:08 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com > wrote:
> <unforgive...@juno.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1194280375.134223.86420@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 5, 12:57 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > > > I'm inclined to agree with your assessment, especially the failure
> > > > having started at the the water bottle boss. But what's up with the
> > > > discoloration on some of the cracks?
>
> <snip>
>
> > It would be nice to see if that really is discoloration rather than a
> > lighting artifact. The top and bottom of that tube are going to swap
> > tension and compression depending on how the whole bike is being
> > loaded, but if this is a fatigue failure my money is on the crack
> > starting at the top. The edge of that weld is a much bigger stress
> > riser than the rivnut hole. In either case, I would ask for a refund
> > rather than a replacement. The inside of that weld is just plain
> > scary.
>
> That's awful thin wall tubing for such a highly stressed area with all of
> the welding gobbed on.
>
> Chas.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yep. I think OP was at least partially victimized by marketing numbers
and the 'pick up the bike' test.
/s
|
| |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 08:38:28
From:
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On Nov 5, 3:24 am, M-gineering <ikmotgeens...@m-gineering.nl > wrote:
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >> I'm inclined to agree with your assessment, especially the failure
> >> having started at the the water bottle boss. But what's up with the
> >> discoloration on some of the cracks?
>
> I guess it started with the seattube cradle breaking (note bit(s)
> missing inhttp://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg) This caused
> to much movement in the main traingle with the crack in the downtube
> starting at the bottleboss. Once the crack was big enough to tear the
> tube with a gross overload the whole bike fell apart
>
> --
> /Marten
>
> info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
That's interesting, but I can't see how this could precede the tube
failures. It's a tensile failure in a member that under normal
circumstances should always be in compression.
|
| | |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 18:57:42
From: M-gineering
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
unforgiven99@juno.com wrote:
> On Nov 5, 3:24 am, M-gineering <ikmotgeens...@m-gineering.nl> wrote:
>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>> I'm inclined to agree with your assessment, especially the failure
>>>> having started at the the water bottle boss. But what's up with the
>>>> discoloration on some of the cracks?
>> I guess it started with the seattube cradle breaking (note bit(s)
>> missing inhttp://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg) This caused
>> to much movement in the main traingle with the crack in the downtube
>> starting at the bottleboss. Once the crack was big enough to tear the
>> tube with a gross overload the whole bike fell apart
>>
>> --
>> /Marten
>>
>> info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
>
> That's interesting, but I can't see how this could precede the tube
> failures. It's a tensile failure in a member that under normal
> circumstances should always be in compression.
>
put some decent fore-aft load on the saddle and you suddenly have a
bunch of stacked parallellograms with the diagonals missing
--
/Marten
info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
|
| |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 08:32:55
From:
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On Nov 5, 12:57 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
> > I'm inclined to agree with your assessment, especially the failure
> > having started at the the water bottle boss. But what's up with the
> > discoloration on some of the cracks?
>
> > I don't know how old this bike is, but aren't aluminum frames
> > generally only warrantied for 5 years by manufacturers these days?
> > Arguably one can say poor design is responsible for "premature"
> > failure....
>
> The OP says it's less than 60 days old. I brought up the discoloration in
> another post, thinking it's evidence this didn't happen all at once.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
> "damyth" <mdk.10.dam...@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1194239747.894825.314270@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Nov 4, 7:15 pm, John Thompson <j...@vector.os2.dhs.org> wrote:
> >> On 2007-11-05, Jack Sprat <J...@Sprat.com> wrote:
>
> >> > I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
> >> > exploded on me
>
> >> > I could have been KILLED!
>
> >> > I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my
> >> > weight
> >> > was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and
> >> > was incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
> >> > destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>
> >> > I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
> >> > point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I
> >> > could break my neck and DIE!
>
> >> > Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
> >> > again?
>
> >> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> >> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> >> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> >> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> >> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
>
> >> That's how aluminum fails. It looks to me like the failure started at
> >> the bosses under the downtube, propogated around the tube to the weld
> >> holding the suspension braket, and then around the other side. When the
> >> down tube failed the top tube couldn't take the load, so it also failed.
>
> >> I'd push for a warranty replacement.
>
> >> --
>
> >> John "steel bikes, please!" (j...@os2.dhs.org)
>
> > I'm inclined to agree with your assessment, especially the failure
> > having started at the the water bottle boss. But what's up with the
> > discoloration on some of the cracks?
>
> > I don't know how old this bike is, but aren't aluminum frames
> > generally only warrantied for 5 years by manufacturers these days?
> > Arguably one can say poor design is responsible for "premature"
> > failure....
It would be nice to see if that really is discoloration rather than a
lighting artifact. The top and bottom of that tube are going to swap
tension and compression depending on how the whole bike is being
loaded, but if this is a fatigue failure my money is on the crack
starting at the top. The edge of that weld is a much bigger stress
riser than the rivnut hole. In either case, I would ask for a refund
rather than a replacement. The inside of that weld is just plain
scary.
|
| | |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 09:08:36
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
<unforgiven99@juno.com > wrote in message
news:1194280375.134223.86420@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 5, 12:57 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > > I'm inclined to agree with your assessment, especially the failure
> > > having started at the the water bottle boss. But what's up with the
> > > discoloration on some of the cracks?
> >
<snip >
>
> It would be nice to see if that really is discoloration rather than a
> lighting artifact. The top and bottom of that tube are going to swap
> tension and compression depending on how the whole bike is being
> loaded, but if this is a fatigue failure my money is on the crack
> starting at the top. The edge of that weld is a much bigger stress
> riser than the rivnut hole. In either case, I would ask for a refund
> rather than a replacement. The inside of that weld is just plain
> scary.
>
That's awful thin wall tubing for such a highly stressed area with all of
the welding gobbed on.
Chas.
|
| |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 15:35:01
From: Scott Gordo
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On Nov 5, 3:24 am, M-gineering <ikmotgeens...@m-gineering.nl > wrote:
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >> I'm inclined to agree with your assessment, especially the failure
> >> having started at the the water bottle boss. But what's up with the
> >> discoloration on some of the cracks?
>
> I guess it started with the seattube cradle breaking (note bit(s)
> missing inhttp://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg) This caused
> to much movement in the main traingle with the crack in the downtube
> starting at the bottleboss. Once the crack was big enough to tear the
> tube with a gross overload the whole bike fell apart
>
> --
> /Marten
>
> info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
Hard to figure the order in which the breaks happened, but good eye.
Don't think I've seen quite that kind of break before, especially
without cracking the other left side as well. How do you think that
happened?
/s
|
| | |
Date: 07 Nov 2007 15:23:46
From: Jack Sprat
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
"Scott Gordo" <blubberpuss@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1194276901.920294.44740@v3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 5, 3:24 am, M-gineering <ikmotgeens...@m-gineering.nl> wrote:
>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> >> I'm inclined to agree with your assessment, especially the failure
>> >> having started at the the water bottle boss. But what's up with the
>> >> discoloration on some of the cracks?
>>
>> I guess it started with the seattube cradle breaking (note bit(s)
>> missing inhttp://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg) This caused
>> to much movement in the main traingle with the crack in the downtube
>> starting at the bottleboss. Once the crack was big enough to tear the
>> tube with a gross overload the whole bike fell apart
>>
>> --
>> /Marten
>>
>> info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
>
> Hard to figure the order in which the breaks happened, but good eye.
> Don't think I've seen quite that kind of break before, especially
> without cracking the other left side as well. How do you think that
> happened?
>
> /s
>
If you zoom in on picture1.jpg you'll see the same broken right side as on
the left in picture5.jpg ... that's why I only took a closeup in
picture5.jpg
-Jack
|
| | |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 16:50:38
From: M-gineering
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
Scott Gordo wrote:
> On Nov 5, 3:24 am, M-gineering <ikmotgeens...@m-gineering.nl> wrote:
>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>> I'm inclined to agree with your assessment, especially the failure
>>>> having started at the the water bottle boss. But what's up with the
>>>> discoloration on some of the cracks?
>> I guess it started with the seattube cradle breaking (note bit(s)
>> missing inhttp://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg) This caused
>> to much movement in the main traingle with the crack in the downtube
>> starting at the bottleboss. Once the crack was big enough to tear the
>> tube with a gross overload the whole bike fell apart
>>
>> --
>> /Marten
>>
>> info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
>
> Hard to figure the order in which the breaks happened, but good eye.
> Don't think I've seen quite that kind of break before, especially
> without cracking the other left side as well. How do you think that
> happened?
>
> /s
>
eating loads of hamburgers (if you don't like the cliche, you shouldn't
have exported all those burger franchises ;) ), jumping, a long seatpost
and landing with the butt on the saddle. But I wasn't there, could be
just a batch of bad aluminium cradles
--
/Marten
info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
|
| |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 03:24:09
From: Greens
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
"Jack Sprat" <Jack@Sprat.com > wrote in message
news:472e5f7b$0$1638$ed362ca5@nr3.newsreader.com...
>I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
>exploded on me
>
> I could have been KILLED!
>
> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and was
> incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>
> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this point
> I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I could break
> my neck and DIE!
>
> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
> again?
>
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
Check it out. It's "Made in Taiwan".
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
|
| | |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 08:48:41
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
"Jack Sprat" <Jack@Sprat.com > wrote in message
news:472e5f7b$0$1638$ed362ca5@nr3.newsreader.com...
>I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
>exploded on me
>
> I could have been KILLED!
>
> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and was
> incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>
> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this point
> I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I could break
> my neck and DIE!
>
> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
> again?
>
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
Check it out. It's "Made in Taiwan".
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
Your computer's hardware is probably made in Taiwan. Possibly China. And
I'll bet the hardware's been pretty reliable. That's as far as I'm going.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
|
| | | |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 13:22:12
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
> "Jack Sprat" <Jack@Sprat.com> wrote
>> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
>> exploded on me
>> I could have been KILLED!
>> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
>> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and was
>> incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
>> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this point
>> I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I could break
>> my neck and DIE!
>> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
>> again?
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> Check it out. It's "Made in Taiwan".
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> Your computer's hardware is probably made in Taiwan. Possibly China. And
> I'll bet the hardware's been pretty reliable. That's as far as I'm going.
Mike makes a good point. Free China (ROC Taiwan) can indeed do top
quality work. And does.
So far no one has commented on the vendor, Mongoose. Maybe not so much.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | | |
Date: 07 Nov 2007 02:56:06
From: Jasper Janssen
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 13:22:12 -0600, A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
>> "Jack Sprat" <Jack@Sprat.com> wrote
>>> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
>>> exploded on me
>>> I could have been KILLED!
>>> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
>>> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and was
>>> incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
>>> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>>> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this point
>>> I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I could break
>>> my neck and DIE!
>>> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
>>> again?
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
>
>Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> Check it out. It's "Made in Taiwan".
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
>> Your computer's hardware is probably made in Taiwan. Possibly China. And
>> I'll bet the hardware's been pretty reliable. That's as far as I'm going.
>
>Mike makes a good point. Free China (ROC Taiwan) can indeed do top
>quality work. And does.
Nobody anywhere claimed otherwise, though. He was the first one to mention
the place of manufacture.
Jasper
|
| | | | |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 22:11:04
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
>> Your computer's hardware is probably made in Taiwan. Possibly China. And
>> I'll bet the hardware's been pretty reliable. That's as far as I'm going.
>
> Mike makes a good point. Free China (ROC Taiwan) can indeed do top quality
> work. And does.
Yes, but nobody took me up on the corolary, that being that, if a computer
crashes, and it's not the made-in-Taiwan (or China) hardware that's
responsible... sigh.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote in message
news:13iur8g6mib86cb@corp.supernews.com...
>> "Jack Sprat" <Jack@Sprat.com> wrote
>>> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
>>> exploded on me
>>> I could have been KILLED!
>>> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
>>> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and
>>> was incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
>>> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>>> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
>>> point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I
>>> could break my neck and DIE!
>>> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
>>> again?
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
>
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> Check it out. It's "Made in Taiwan".
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
>> Your computer's hardware is probably made in Taiwan. Possibly China. And
>> I'll bet the hardware's been pretty reliable. That's as far as I'm going.
>
> Mike makes a good point. Free China (ROC Taiwan) can indeed do top quality
> work. And does.
>
> So far no one has commented on the vendor, Mongoose. Maybe not so much.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | | | |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 17:10:10
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
In article
<YxMXi.66764$YL5.50425@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net >,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com > wrote:
> >> Your computer's hardware is probably made in Taiwan. Possibly China. And
> >> I'll bet the hardware's been pretty reliable. That's as far as I'm going.
> >
> > Mike makes a good point. Free China (ROC Taiwan) can indeed do top quality
> > work. And does.
>
> Yes, but nobody took me up on the corolary, that being that, if a computer
^^^^^^^^
I _know_ that there is a double letter in there someplace.
Can never remember how to spel it.
--
Michael Press
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 20:52:43
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
"Michael Press" <rubrum@pacbell.net > wrote in message
news:rubrum-4156DF.17101005112007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net...
> In article
> <YxMXi.66764$YL5.50425@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>,
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
>
>> >> Your computer's hardware is probably made in Taiwan. Possibly China.
>> >> And
>> >> I'll bet the hardware's been pretty reliable. That's as far as I'm
>> >> going.
>> >
>> > Mike makes a good point. Free China (ROC Taiwan) can indeed do top
>> > quality
>> > work. And does.
>>
>> Yes, but nobody took me up on the corolary, that being that, if a
>> computer
> ^^^^^^^^
> I _know_ that there is a double letter in there someplace.
> Can never remember how to spel it.
>
> --
> Michael Press
I've often thought that, if we want computers to actually make us smarter in
any reasonable way, the spell checker ought to spit out a report at the end
of each week or month showing words that were most-frequently mispelled (er.
ok, misspelled). It's pretty amazing that's not already a normal feature. It
would certainly help me a lot. That would give me a reason to actually use a
spell-checker.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 06 Nov 2007 06:12:27
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
In article <wqSXi.2968$3Z2.1534@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com >,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
> "Michael Press" <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:rubrum-4156DF.17101005112007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net...
> > In article
> > <YxMXi.66764$YL5.50425@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>,
> > "Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
> >
> >> >> Your computer's hardware is probably made in Taiwan. Possibly China.
> >> >> And
> >> >> I'll bet the hardware's been pretty reliable. That's as far as I'm
> >> >> going.
> >> >
> >> > Mike makes a good point. Free China (ROC Taiwan) can indeed do top
> >> > quality
> >> > work. And does.
> >>
> >> Yes, but nobody took me up on the corolary, that being that, if a
> >> computer
> > ^^^^^^^^
> > I _know_ that there is a double letter in there someplace.
> > Can never remember how to spel it.
>
> I've often thought that, if we want computers to actually make us smarter in
> any reasonable way, the spell checker ought to spit out a report at the end
> of each week or month showing words that were most-frequently mispelled (er.
> ok, misspelled). It's pretty amazing that's not already a normal feature. It
> would certainly help me a lot. That would give me a reason to actually use a
> spell-checker.
Oh, if you want to be _serious_ about it, some applications
have an unobtrusive but obvious way of highlighting words
that it does not recognize. This way we do not need to run
the spell checker as a separate process.
--
Michael Press
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 07 Nov 2007 05:35:28
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
In article <rubrum-CD1EDB.22122705112007@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com >,
Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net > wrote:
> In article <wqSXi.2968$3Z2.1534@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>,
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > "Michael Press" <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> > news:rubrum-4156DF.17101005112007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net...
> > > In article
> > > <YxMXi.66764$YL5.50425@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>,
> > > "Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> >> Your computer's hardware is probably made in Taiwan. Possibly China.
> > >> >> And
> > >> >> I'll bet the hardware's been pretty reliable. That's as far as I'm
> > >> >> going.
> > >> >
> > >> > Mike makes a good point. Free China (ROC Taiwan) can indeed do top
> > >> > quality
> > >> > work. And does.
> > >>
> > >> Yes, but nobody took me up on the corolary, that being that, if a
> > >> computer
> > > ^^^^^^^^
> > > I _know_ that there is a double letter in there someplace.
> > > Can never remember how to spel it.
> >
> > I've often thought that, if we want computers to actually make us smarter
> > in
> > any reasonable way, the spell checker ought to spit out a report at the end
> > of each week or month showing words that were most-frequently mispelled
> > (er.
> > ok, misspelled). It's pretty amazing that's not already a normal feature.
> > It
> > would certainly help me a lot. That would give me a reason to actually use
> > a
> > spell-checker.
>
> Oh, if you want to be _serious_ about it, some applications
> have an unobtrusive but obvious way of highlighting words
> that it does not recognize. This way we do not need to run
> the spell checker as a separate process.
It's offered as an OS-level service, available to any application whose
developer uses the API, on the Mac OS. I am moderately sure this is also
true on the Windows side, though I would have to look it up, and I'm not
going to.
The big news in Mac OS 10.5 was the availability of the grammar checker
as well.
And continuing tidying up the loose threads in this, er, thread, nobody
has mentioned the Jaguar S-Type, which shares a common platform with the
now-defunct Lincoln LS.
The super-duper grand touring XK model shared a platform with the Aston
Martin DB7 until 2006 or so, but I don't know if the DB and XK continue
on a common platform today.
The super-duper sedan, the XJ, gets an unshared chassis, but like the
other models, pulls engines from Ford's common pool (notably the
gets-around-like-crazy modular V8) and Jag-ifies them in various ways.
The new Jags are great cars in their various ways, and surely far better
than the dubious rolling bathtubs of trouble that were their ancestors.
But one worries that every one of them offers about half the grins per
dollar of a Mazdaspeed 6, which has the advantage of looking like every
other unprepossessing Japanese family sedan, thus flying under the radar
(so to speak).
Alas, the wagon is not available in the US, and the Mazdaspeed 6 is not
sold in Canada at all.
Back to the bike that started this, I can't wait to hear how the
warranty claim turns out, but that looks pretty impressive.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing
|
| | | |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 14:02:40
From: Greens
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote in message
news:KPHXi.17358$Pv2.9272@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
> "Jack Sprat" <Jack@Sprat.com> wrote in message
> news:472e5f7b$0$1638$ed362ca5@nr3.newsreader.com...
>>I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
>>exploded on me
>>
>> I could have been KILLED!
>>
>> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
>> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and was
>> incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
>> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>>
>> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
>> point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I could
>> break my neck and DIE!
>>
>> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
>> again?
>>
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
>
> Check it out. It's "Made in Taiwan".
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
>
> Your computer's hardware is probably made in Taiwan. Possibly China. And
> I'll bet the hardware's been pretty reliable. That's as far as I'm going.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
You don't break your neck if your computer crashes.
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Date: 05 Nov 2007 11:05:35
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
Greens wrote:
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:KPHXi.17358$Pv2.9272@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>> "Jack Sprat" <Jack@Sprat.com> wrote in message
>> news:472e5f7b$0$1638$ed362ca5@nr3.newsreader.com...
>>> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and
>>> it exploded on me
>>>
>>> I could have been KILLED!
>>>
>>> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my
>>> weight was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously
>>> crashed and was incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My
>>> helmet was also destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>>>
>>> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
>>> point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I
>>> could break my neck and DIE!
>>>
>>> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could
>>> happen again?
>>>
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
>>
>> Check it out. It's "Made in Taiwan".
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
>>
>> Your computer's hardware is probably made in Taiwan. Possibly China.
>> And I'll bet the hardware's been pretty reliable. That's as far as
>> I'm going. --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>>
>
> You don't break your neck if your computer crashes.
Someone call the Logic Police! Quick!
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Date: 05 Nov 2007 17:04:37
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
In article <472f697a$0$8871$4c368faf@roadrunner.com >,
"Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me > wrote:
> Greens wrote:
> > "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> > news:KPHXi.17358$Pv2.9272@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
> >> "Jack Sprat" <Jack@Sprat.com> wrote in message
> >> news:472e5f7b$0$1638$ed362ca5@nr3.newsreader.com...
> >>> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and
> >>> it exploded on me
> >>>
> >>> I could have been KILLED!
> >>>
> >>> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my
> >>> weight was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously
> >>> crashed and was incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My
> >>> helmet was also destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
> >>>
> >>> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
> >>> point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I
> >>> could break my neck and DIE!
> >>>
> >>> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could
> >>> happen again?
> >>>
> >>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> >>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> >>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> >>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> >>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
> >>
> >> Check it out. It's "Made in Taiwan".
> >> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> >>
> >> Your computer's hardware is probably made in Taiwan. Possibly China.
> >> And I'll bet the hardware's been pretty reliable. That's as far as
> >> I'm going. --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> >> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
> >>
> >
> > You don't break your neck if your computer crashes.
>
> Someone call the Logic Police! Quick!
Nothing to see here. Move along now.
--
Michael Press
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Date: 05 Nov 2007 00:34:57
From: Greens
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
"Jack Sprat" <Jack@Sprat.com > wrote in message
news:472e5f7b$0$1638$ed362ca5@nr3.newsreader.com...
>I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
>exploded on me
>
> I could have been KILLED!
>
> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and was
> incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>
> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this point
> I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I could break
> my neck and DIE!
>
> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
> again?
>
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
Hope this isn't too personal. What do you weigh? If that happened to a
relatively slender person, I'm alarmed.
It looks like this disaster started at the bolt on the tube beneath the rear
shock. I think force from the front tire impacting a bump is going to put
that tube in tension along the bottom and compression where the weld is and
it's going to be most concentrated on the lowest spot of the outside of the
tube, right where they drilled a hole and put in that bolt. It's called a
stress riser. If there are any imperfections in that hole, the forces will
find them and work on them until that metal tears and once a lightweight
design like this starts to go, everything else will go rather explosively.
So why did they put the bolt hole in the worst possible spot? It should have
been to the side of the tube if possible.
My guess is it all happened very fast but in fact it started on that lowest
bolt hole and ended with the break on the top tube nearest the seat.
Isn't it aluminum that doesn't do well in repeated deformations? I think I
read that and that it's more brittle than steel. Brittleness will of course
cause more of a shattering type failure.
Another thing... the older style bike would have had the two tubes going up
to the seat from the rear axle. Those tubes would have prevented flexing at
the bolt hole. The rear tire puts leveraged force on the bolt again and
again. Most of it should be absorbed by the shock, but more of it will get
through than with the old style of diamond frame. Of course the whole lower
tube is also getting the force from both front and rear tires. It's just
that it's going to fail at the weakest point, which is that bolt hole. To
figure out the force on the bolt from the rear tire impacting, you take the
force and multiply by the length between the axle and the broken bolt hole.
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Date: 05 Nov 2007 05:16:29
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On Nov 4, 7:24 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> Jack Sprat wrote:
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
>
> Looking at the design, we have a thin hard aluminum tube with a punched
> bottle mount just opposite a loaded flange welded in the thin section.
> What was the question again? A whole 60 days, huh?
Looking at http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
it looks like the upper part of the fracture surface,
where it runs along the weld, is darker than the rest
of the surface. If true, this suggests that the dark
part was cracked earlier, along the weld.
The darkening is caused by oxidation, water, dirt etc.
Then the light, clean part is what broke in the final
failure. It's a bit hard to tell if this is real or
lighting.
Perhaps the OP could take some pictures focusing
just on the fracture surfaces.
Incidentally, what is the globbing on the inside of
the tube near this weld? I wouldn't have expected
weld filler stuff to wind up inside the tube. Was
there some kind of internal reinforcement? That
doesn't seem like a great idea.
If this didn't have anything to do with abuse, I
would be tempted to ask the manufacturer for a
full refund and buy a different bike.
Ben
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Date: 04 Nov 2007 21:15:47
From: damyth
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On Nov 4, 7:15 pm, John Thompson <j...@vector.os2.dhs.org > wrote:
> On 2007-11-05, Jack Sprat <J...@Sprat.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
> > exploded on me
>
> > I could have been KILLED!
>
> > I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
> > was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and
> > was incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
> > destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>
> > I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
> > point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I
> > could break my neck and DIE!
>
> > Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
> > again?
>
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
>
> That's how aluminum fails. It looks to me like the failure started at
> the bosses under the downtube, propogated around the tube to the weld
> holding the suspension braket, and then around the other side. When the
> down tube failed the top tube couldn't take the load, so it also failed.
>
> I'd push for a warranty replacement.
>
> --
>
> John "steel bikes, please!" (j...@os2.dhs.org)
I'm inclined to agree with your assessment, especially the failure
having started at the the water bottle boss. But what's up with the
discoloration on some of the cracks?
I don't know how old this bike is, but aren't aluminum frames
generally only warrantied for 5 years by manufacturers these days?
Arguably one can say poor design is responsible for "premature"
failure....
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Date: 05 Nov 2007 21:38:19
From: John Thompson
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On 2007-11-05, damyth <mdk.10.damyth@spamgourmet.com > wrote:
> I don't know how old this bike is, but aren't aluminum frames
> generally only warrantied for 5 years by manufacturers these days?
> Arguably one can say poor design is responsible for "premature"
> failure....
The OP states he only had the bike for about 60 days before it failed.
--
John (john@os2.dhs.org)
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Date: 05 Nov 2007 05:57:37
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
> I'm inclined to agree with your assessment, especially the failure
> having started at the the water bottle boss. But what's up with the
> discoloration on some of the cracks?
>
> I don't know how old this bike is, but aren't aluminum frames
> generally only warrantied for 5 years by manufacturers these days?
> Arguably one can say poor design is responsible for "premature"
> failure....
The OP says it's less than 60 days old. I brought up the discoloration in
another post, thinking it's evidence this didn't happen all at once.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"damyth" <mdk.10.damyth@spamgourmet.com > wrote in message
news:1194239747.894825.314270@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 4, 7:15 pm, John Thompson <j...@vector.os2.dhs.org> wrote:
>> On 2007-11-05, Jack Sprat <J...@Sprat.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
>> > exploded on me
>>
>> > I could have been KILLED!
>>
>> > I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my
>> > weight
>> > was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and
>> > was incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
>> > destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>>
>> > I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
>> > point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I
>> > could break my neck and DIE!
>>
>> > Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
>> > again?
>>
>> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
>> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
>> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
>> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
>> >http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
>>
>> That's how aluminum fails. It looks to me like the failure started at
>> the bosses under the downtube, propogated around the tube to the weld
>> holding the suspension braket, and then around the other side. When the
>> down tube failed the top tube couldn't take the load, so it also failed.
>>
>> I'd push for a warranty replacement.
>>
>> --
>>
>> John "steel bikes, please!" (j...@os2.dhs.org)
>
> I'm inclined to agree with your assessment, especially the failure
> having started at the the water bottle boss. But what's up with the
> discoloration on some of the cracks?
>
> I don't know how old this bike is, but aren't aluminum frames
> generally only warrantied for 5 years by manufacturers these days?
> Arguably one can say poor design is responsible for "premature"
> failure....
>
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Date: 05 Nov 2007 09:24:00
From: M-gineering
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> I'm inclined to agree with your assessment, especially the failure
>> having started at the the water bottle boss. But what's up with the
>> discoloration on some of the cracks?
I guess it started with the seattube cradle breaking (note bit(s)
missing in http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg) This caused
to much movement in the main traingle with the crack in the downtube
starting at the bottleboss. Once the crack was big enough to tear the
tube with a gross overload the whole bike fell apart
--
/Marten
info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
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Date: 05 Nov 2007 17:01:10
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
In article <fgmjvi$s0r$1@localhost.localdomain >,
M-gineering <ikmotgeenspam@m-gineering.nl > wrote:
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >> I'm inclined to agree with your assessment, especially the failure
> >> having started at the the water bottle boss. But what's up with the
> >> discoloration on some of the cracks?
>
>
> I guess it started with the seattube cradle breaking (note bit(s)
> missing in http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg) This caused
> to much movement in the main traingle with the crack in the downtube
> starting at the bottleboss. Once the crack was big enough to tear the
> tube with a gross overload the whole bike fell apart
I do not think so.
* First fracture at the water bottle boss.
* Now the top tube is asked to carry too much strain
and fractures.
* When the main triangle gives way, the rider crashes
onto the saddle, but the seat tube cradle must carry
all the force normally taken up in the top tube,
and the seat tube cradle fractures.
--
Michael Press
|
| |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 05:00:14
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
"Jack Sprat" <Jack@Sprat.com > wrote in message
news:472e5f7b$0$1638$ed362ca5@nr3.newsreader.com...
>I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
>exploded on me
>
> I could have been KILLED!
>
> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and was
> incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>
> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this point
> I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I could break
> my neck and DIE!
>
> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
> again?
>
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
This happened all at once? The third photo appears to have some
discoloration on the inside of the broken edges, implying that this didn't
occur instantly. Was it making any noises beforehand? It's difficult to
believe that all those failures happened simultaneously. More likely
something gave way first, overloading the other areas until, after further
riding, they broke as well.
> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded.
Could you explain what "all my weight was forced onto the bicycle" means?
Since your weight cannot actually be suspended above the bicycle, do you
mean that you hit something at the bottom of the hill? Of course, even if
you did, Jack Sprat was the guy who could eat no fat. More likely it would
have been his wife that could have caused such damage.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
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Date: 07 Nov 2007 15:34:20
From: Jack Sprat
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote in message
news:yrxXi.66704$YL5.55329@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
> This happened all at once? The third photo appears to have some
> discoloration on the inside of the broken edges, implying that this didn't
> occur instantly. Was it making any noises beforehand? It's difficult to
> believe that all those failures happened simultaneously. More likely
> something gave way first, overloading the other areas until, after further
> riding, they broke as well.
Well thinking back on it, I can't recall hearing any noises or anything like
that, but I was chasing a problem where the chain would skip a lot or would
come off the chainring when I was really pushing hard up a hill and the back
wheel hit bumps like tree roots and things. It was quite annoying, but I
put it down to sticky cable housing between the main 'triangle' and the
movable rear-end. I did notice that replacing the housing didn't make
things any better so I was at a loss for what was causing it. It's pretty
obvious now that I was flexing the whole frame out of alignment and that was
causing the chain to skip and come off. I just never considered the
possibility of a brand new bike having such a problem ... well at least
until the moment my face hit the dirt and looked over to see my back wheel
lying on top of my front wheel.
>
>> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
>> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded.
>
> Could you explain what "all my weight was forced onto the bicycle" means?
> Since your weight cannot actually be suspended above the bicycle, do you
> mean that you hit something at the bottom of the hill? Of course, even if
> you did, Jack Sprat was the guy who could eat no fat. More likely it would
> have been his wife that could have caused such damage.
>
Ride down any steep hill and see what happens when the ground suddenly
levels out at the bottom.
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
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| |
Date: 04 Nov 2007 21:15:16
From: John Thompson
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On 2007-11-05, Jack Sprat <Jack@Sprat.com > wrote:
> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
> exploded on me
>
> I could have been KILLED!
>
> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and
> was incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>
> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
> point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I
> could break my neck and DIE!
>
> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
> again?
>
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
That's how aluminum fails. It looks to me like the failure started at
the bosses under the downtube, propogated around the tube to the weld
holding the suspension braket, and then around the other side. When the
down tube failed the top tube couldn't take the load, so it also failed.
I'd push for a warranty replacement.
--
John "steel bikes, please!" (john@os2.dhs.org)
|
| |
Date: 05 Nov 2007 02:24:55
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
you ride a what? be serious
http://www.country-living.com/newcanaan.htm
uneeda exorcist
|
| |
Date: 04 Nov 2007 20:24:55
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
Jack Sprat wrote:
> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
> exploded on me
>
> I could have been KILLED!
>
> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and
> was incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>
> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
> point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I
> could break my neck and DIE!
>
> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
> again?
>
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
Looking at the design, we have a thin hard aluminum tube with a punched
bottle mount just opposite a loaded flange welded in the thin section.
What was the question again? A whole 60 days, huh?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | |
Date: 07 Nov 2007 15:26:52
From: Jack Sprat
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote in message
news:13isvl115h3nfae@corp.supernews.com...
> Jack Sprat wrote:
>> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
>> exploded on me
>>
>> I could have been KILLED!
>>
>> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
>> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and was
>> incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
>> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>>
>> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
>> point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I could
>> break my neck and DIE!
>>
>> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
>> again?
>>
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
>
> Looking at the design, we have a thin hard aluminum tube with a punched
> bottle mount just opposite a loaded flange welded in the thin section.
> What was the question again? A whole 60 days, huh?
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
This is a GREAT answer and just what I was looking for.
I guess you can say that I'm not 100% Satisfied with my purchase and I'll be
opting for the a full refund instead of a replacement.
http://www.performancebike.com/help/guarantee.cfm
I just got back from my local Giant dealer and I'm thinking I'll replace
this Mongoose with a Trance 1. I hope the Giant holds up better.
-Jack
|
| | |
Date: 07 Nov 2007 02:50:55
From: Jasper Janssen
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 20:24:55 -0600, A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
>Jack Sprat wrote:
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
>
>Looking at the design, we have a thin hard aluminum tube with a punched
>bottle mount
Right in the maximum of tension load on the entire pipe, too.
>just opposite a loaded flange welded in the thin section.
>What was the question again? A whole 60 days, huh?
I'm impressed that the top tube broke in *two* places rather than one
after the downtube finally snapped. There's clear evidence of long-term
crack propagation in the DT break. I wouldn't ride one of these things
again without checking for cracks around that bottleholder hole regularly.
Jasper
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Date: 04 Nov 2007 20:16:26
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
Jack Sprat wrote:
> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
> exploded on me
>
> I could have been KILLED!
>
> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and
> was incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>
> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
> point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I
> could break my neck and DIE!
>
> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
> again?
>
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
Cool photos!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 04 Nov 2007 19:44:23
From: BobT
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
"Jack Sprat" <Jack@Sprat.com > wrote in message
news:472e5f7b$0$1638$ed362ca5@nr3.newsreader.com...
>I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
>exploded on me
>
> I could have been KILLED!
>
> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and was
> incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>
> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this point
> I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I could break
> my neck and DIE!
>
> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
> again?
>
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
That is really scary!
Are you a particularly large rider?
Did you feel the suspension totally bottom out as the frame broke?
Good thing you were wearing a helmet.
BobT
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Date: 07 Nov 2007 15:19:50
From: Jack Sprat
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
> That is really scary!
> Are you a particularly large rider?
I'm 220 lbs of pedal mashing fury :-)
> Did you feel the suspension totally bottom out as the frame broke?
All I can remember is being confused ... why am I crashing? What's going
on? It's a good thing the handlebars rotated down and I first landed on the
front tire, thus breaking my fall and saving me from a 25 mph neck breaking
head butt into the ground.
> Good thing you were wearing a helmet.
Amen.
-Jack
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Date: 04 Nov 2007 19:13:13
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
BobT wrote:
> "Jack Sprat" <Jack@Sprat.com> wrote in message
> news:472e5f7b$0$1638$ed362ca5@nr3.newsreader.com...
>> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and
>> it exploded on me
>>
>> I could have been KILLED!
>>
>> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my
>> weight was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously
>> crashed and was incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My
>> helmet was also destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>>
>> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
>> point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I
>> could break my neck and DIE!
>>
>> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could
>> happen again?
>>
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
>
> That is really scary!
> Are you a particularly large rider?
> Did you feel the suspension totally bottom out as the frame broke?
> Good thing you were wearing a helmet.
Here we go...
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Date: 04 Nov 2007 21:23:28
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
Bill Sornson wrote:
> BobT wrote:
>> "Jack Sprat" <Jack@Sprat.com> wrote in message
>> news:472e5f7b$0$1638$ed362ca5@nr3.newsreader.com...
>>> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and
>>> it exploded on me
>>>
>>> I could have been KILLED!
>>>
>>> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my
>>> weight was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously
>>> crashed and was incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My
>>> helmet was also destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>>>
>>> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
>>> point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I
>>> could break my neck and DIE!
>>>
>>> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could
>>> happen again?
>>>
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
>>> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jpg
>> That is really scary!
>> Are you a particularly large rider?
>> Did you feel the suspension totally bottom out as the frame broke?
>> Good thing you were wearing a helmet.
>
> Here we go...
Mr. Sornson's opinion of foam bicycle hat, er helmet, effectiveness is
based on belief, not fact.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
When did ignorance of biology become a "family value"?
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Date: 04 Nov 2007 19:46:44
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
Bob Taylor wrote:
> ...
> Good thing you were wearing a helmet.
Probably prevented a nasty scalp wound.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
When did ignorance of biology become a "family value"?
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Date: 04 Nov 2007 17:32:13
From:
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
I'm not a mechanical engineer but having a bolt hole opposite where
the suspension mounts the tube is bad design.
The manufacturer needs to see these pics.
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Date: 04 Nov 2007 17:01:15
From: Ted Bennett
Subject: Re: My bike EXPLODED!
|
Jack Sprat <Jack@Sprat.com > wrote:
> I was riding my nearly new (less than 60 days old) Canaan Elite and it
> exploded on me
>
> I could have been KILLED!
>
> I was riding down a steep hill and just at the bottom when all my weight
> was forced onto the bicycle and it exploded. I obviously crashed and
> was incredibly lucky not to be seriously injured. My helmet was also
> destroyed saving my head from a similar fate.
>
> I know that there is a warranty that could replace bike, but at this
> point I'm scared that it could happen again with the new bike and I
> could break my neck and DIE!
>
> Do you bike experts think this is fluke or do you think it could happen
> again?
>
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken1.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken2.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken3.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken4.jpg
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jss/canaan/broken5.jp
Your bike did not explode, it broke. There is a big difference.
Yes, it could happen again if you can replicate the stresses on the
frame, but that isn't likely. Assuming there was no defect, then a
large overload could produce those breaks, but it would have to be a
very large load. It's more probable that the frame was incorrectly
welded or heat treated, or was abused, such as blows from rocks, deep
scratches or riding two-up.
--
Ted Bennett
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