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Main
Date: 10 May 2007 07:31:49
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Name that Raleigh?
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So, I've been picking stuff out of the trash again, as it was clean-up
week nearby.
I found a Raleigh lightweight, but I don't know how old it is.
Difficulty: some previous owner brush-painted it yellow. The paint
underneath appears to be pearl white. Metal Heron badge on the front.
The components range from a Suntour Cyclone M-II front der to a pair of
Shimano 600 "arabesque" cranks. I am skeptical that they are all
original.
The brake levers are Weinmann with white Carlton brake hoods; stem is a
black 1" threaded Raleigh threaded piece clamping a Sakae bar (white
padded vinyl bar tape).
Serial number: RN903044 Is that a Kent, WA sn, or maybe a Canadian
factory sn?
Photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcousine/491850276/
seat stays wrap around the seatpost, and note the "R" on the post clamp
bolt:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcousine/491850548/in/photostream/
Some odd lumps on the seat stays above the brake bridge, apparently
something cut off or filled in. Maybe a canti/Mafac cable stop bridge
cut away?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcousine/491850800/in/photostream/
The bike is sized for 700c wheels.
Any guess as to what its age or tubing or class level is?
TIA,
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 15 May 2007 07:17:59
From: OldRoads
Subject: Re: Name that Raleigh?
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On May 13, 6:09 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> -snip-
>
> * * Chas wrote:
> > During the 1970s many European manufacturers offered bikes with frames
> > that had the 3 main tubes made of decent to best quality tubing while the
> > forks and stays were made of gas pipe steel tubing. It was a marketing
> > ploy - a cheap bike with a Reynolds sticker on it looked better than a gas
> > pipe special but in reality didn't ride or handle much better. Straight
> > gage Reynolds 3 main tubes were no great shakes.
>
> Univega went even farther (to the logical conclusion?) with their famous
> "One Tube CrMo" frames. . . and a cute CrMo sticker.
> --
> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
In response to the original post - if you're trying to identify an old
cycle, have a look at our Vintage Bicycle Picture Database.
Vin - Menotomy Vintage Bicycles
http://OldRoads.com
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Date: 12 May 2007 13:50:28
From: datakoll@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Name that Raleigh?
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nice dog! dogs at 10, saddles at 12, deray's at 9 and
the cage metal and hanger metal on Raleigh's Suntour deray's are
incredibly malleable. If the one pivot deray snags spokes while
pedaling forward, rolling inot a wad of twisted meatl, pliers, hammer,
vise, hardwood block get it straight and running no problem. Not so
with a shimano deore cage hung on the same Suntour hanger that been
hanging for 20 years but then the deore double pivot deray never gets
spoked: wonder where the malleable metal went?
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Date: 12 May 2007 13:35:17
From: andresmuro@aol.com
Subject: Re: Name that Raleigh?
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On May 10, 1:31 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> So, I've been picking stuff out of the trash again, as it was clean-up
> week nearby.
>
> I found a Raleigh lightweight, but I don't know how old it is.
>
> Difficulty: some previous owner brush-painted it yellow. The paint
> underneath appears to be pearl white. Metal Heron badge on the front.
>
> The components range from a Suntour Cyclone M-II front der to a pair of
> Shimano 600 "arabesque" cranks. I am skeptical that they are all
> original.
>
> The brake levers are Weinmann with white Carlton brake hoods; stem is a
> black 1" threaded Raleigh threaded piece clamping a Sakae bar (white
> padded vinyl bar tape).
>
> Serial number: RN903044 Is that a Kent, WA sn, or maybe a Canadian
> factory sn?
>
> Photos:http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcousine/491850276/
>
> seat stays wrap around the seatpost, and note the "R" on the post clamp
> bolt:http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcousine/491850548/in/photostream/
>
> Some odd lumps on the seat stays above the brake bridge, apparently
> something cut off or filled in. Maybe a canti/Mafac cable stop bridge
> cut away?
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcousine/491850800/in/photostream/
>
> The bike is sized for 700c wheels.
>
> Any guess as to what its age or tubing or class level is?
>
> TIA,
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau rcous...@sfu.cahttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
It is a pretty cheap low end frame. The dropouts are a dead giveaway w/
o a deraullier hanger. Carbon steel or some cheap plumbing pipes.
Andres
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Date: 10 May 2007 21:39:03
From:
Subject: Re: Name that Raleigh?
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On May 10, 1:31 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> So, I've been picking stuff out of the trash again, as it was clean-up
> week nearby.
>
> I found a Raleigh lightweight, but I don't know how old it is.
>
> Difficulty: some previous owner brush-painted it yellow. The paint
> underneath appears to be pearl white. Metal Heron badge on the front.
>
> The components range from a Suntour Cyclone M-II front der to a pair of
> Shimano 600 "arabesque" cranks. I am skeptical that they are all
> original.
>
> The brake levers are Weinmann with white Carlton brake hoods; stem is a
> black 1" threaded Raleigh threaded piece clamping a Sakae bar (white
> padded vinyl bar tape).
>
> Serial number: RN903044 Is that a Kent, WA sn, or maybe a Canadian
> factory sn?
>
> Photos:http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcousine/491850276/
>
> seat stays wrap around the seatpost, and note the "R" on the post clamp
> bolt:http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcousine/491850548/in/photostream/
>
> Some odd lumps on the seat stays above the brake bridge, apparently
> something cut off or filled in. Maybe a canti/Mafac cable stop bridge
> cut away?
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcousine/491850800/in/photostream/
>
> The bike is sized for 700c wheels.
>
> Any guess as to what its age or tubing or class level is?
>
> TIA,
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau rcous...@sfu.cahttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
Ryan, & list:
Definitely a Grand Prix, probably late '60s or early '70s vintage.
These were good bikes. They weighed about 35 pounds stock but because
of their minimal trail - many had under 45 mm trail - they **felt**
much lighter, responsive and quick-handling. The Super Course was the
model to get, though: it had lgihter, chrome-moly or (some say) 531
straight gauge tubing, allow rims and better equipment. Some had
steel cotterless cranks. I've got a Super Course in my garage, I paid
the same for it as you paid for your GP.
In the old days you could see low-budget riders racing on Grand Prix
and Super Course.
Fix the bike up if it fits. They are not a bad ride.
good luck
jn
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Date: 11 May 2007 14:09:04
From: Donald Gillies
Subject: Re: Name that Raleigh?
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thursday@allidaho.com writes:
>because of their minimal trail - many had under 45 mm trail - they
>**felt** much lighter, responsive and quick-handling. The Super
>Course was the model to get, though: it had lgihter, chrome-moly or
>(some say) 531 straight gauge tubing,
The Super Course and Gran Prix frames likely weighed EXACTLY the same.
The Super course had a main triangle of reynolds 531 plain gauge
tubing. A main triangle of 2030 carbon plain gauge tubing would have
weighed the same. The only difference is that the super course would
have been just a little bit stronger. Even if the 531 main tubes were
0.1 mm thinner, the savings would have been paltry (6 oz or less.)
Before 1978 CPSC crash-test regulations were instituted, many bike
makers produced "club racer" bikes with thin-walled high-tensile steel
tubing, often unbutted but thin enough to give a "springy" ride. Club
racers were GREAT RIDING bikes. The 531 bikes were only slightly
lighter and better. I think bike qualifies as a Club racer. In
1978/9, low-end bikes got 1-2 lbs heavier, thanx to the CPSC.
This was my first 10-speed.
- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA
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Date: 12 May 2007 20:14:21
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Name that Raleigh?
|
In article <f22m1g$flv$1@cascade.cs.ubc.ca >,
gillies@cs.ubc.ca (Donald Gillies) wrote:
> thursday@allidaho.com writes:
>
> >because of their minimal trail - many had under 45 mm trail - they
> >**felt** much lighter, responsive and quick-handling. The Super
> >Course was the model to get, though: it had lgihter, chrome-moly or
> >(some say) 531 straight gauge tubing,
>
> The Super Course and Gran Prix frames likely weighed EXACTLY the same.
> The Super course had a main triangle of reynolds 531 plain gauge
> tubing. A main triangle of 2030 carbon plain gauge tubing would have
> weighed the same. The only difference is that the super course would
> have been just a little bit stronger. Even if the 531 main tubes were
> 0.1 mm thinner, the savings would have been paltry (6 oz or less.)
>
> Before 1978 CPSC crash-test regulations were instituted, many bike
> makers produced "club racer" bikes with thin-walled high-tensile steel
> tubing, often unbutted but thin enough to give a "springy" ride. Club
> racers were GREAT RIDING bikes. The 531 bikes were only slightly
> lighter and better. I think bike qualifies as a Club racer. In
> 1978/9, low-end bikes got 1-2 lbs heavier, thanx to the CPSC.
Thanks for the insight. This also explains another frame in my pile.
I have an old Motobecane which was just nice enough to have cotterless
cranks, but which had a Vitus 1010 (I think...) sticker that translated
to a pretty ordinary Hi-Ten steel tubing. But it was remarkably light!
That frame was also old enough to predate CPSC crash-test rules, and
this would explain that bike.
I think I'll assume what I have is a painted Gran Prix: that's the best
consensus here.
BTW, it doesn't fit me, so this one is going up for sale, cheap. I might
pull the cranks, though, as 165s are worth keeping.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 13 May 2007 02:19:53
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: Name that Raleigh?
|
"Ryan Cousineau" <rcousine@sfu.ca > wrote in message
news:rcousine-FA69A8.13141712052007@news.telus.net...
<snip >
> > Before 1978 CPSC crash-test regulations were instituted, many bike
> > makers produced "club racer" bikes with thin-walled high-tensile steel
> > tubing, often unbutted but thin enough to give a "springy" ride. Club
> > racers were GREAT RIDING bikes. The 531 bikes were only slightly
> > lighter and better. I think bike qualifies as a Club racer. In
> > 1978/9, low-end bikes got 1-2 lbs heavier, thanx to the CPSC.
>
> Thanks for the insight. This also explains another frame in my pile.
>
> I have an old Motobecane which was just nice enough to have cotterless
> cranks, but which had a Vitus 1010 (I think...) sticker that translated
> to a pretty ordinary Hi-Ten steel tubing. But it was remarkably light!
>
There were several stickers Motobecane used on their lower end frames.
Vitus 172 was pretty good tubing. It had the same wall thickness as
Columbus SP and was almost as strong. They also used 888 stickers which
were for .8mm wall thickness Durifort straight gage main tubes. If the
frame has matching stickers for frame, forks and stays then it might be a
better than average frame.
The Motobecane gas pipe tube frames had a gold and black foil sticker with
1010, 1040 or something like that.
During the 1970s many European manufacturers offered bikes with frames
that had the 3 main tubes made of decent to best quality tubing while the
forks and stays were made of gas pipe steel tubing. It was a marketing
ploy - a cheap bike with a Reynolds sticker on it looked better than a gas
pipe special but in reality didn't ride or handle much better. Straight
gage Reynolds 3 main tubes were no great shakes.
Chas.
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Date: 13 May 2007 17:09:47
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Name that Raleigh?
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-snip-
* * Chas wrote:
> During the 1970s many European manufacturers offered bikes with frames
> that had the 3 main tubes made of decent to best quality tubing while the
> forks and stays were made of gas pipe steel tubing. It was a marketing
> ploy - a cheap bike with a Reynolds sticker on it looked better than a gas
> pipe special but in reality didn't ride or handle much better. Straight
> gage Reynolds 3 main tubes were no great shakes.
Univega went even farther (to the logical conclusion?) with their famous
"One Tube CrMo" frames. . . and a cute CrMo sticker.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 10 May 2007 14:03:01
From: datakoll@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Name that Raleigh?
|
the raleigh i ride is claimed an '87 equiped with SR-Sakae chain rings
with spherical seat CR allen screws, Suntour long cage rear deray, 27"
rims with hi flange hubs, dia compe center pulls adjusting to 700c no
problem. It is also claimed to be from Tiawan but imported through
Medford or Kent. the lugs are not cut back nor do the stays wrap
around.the lumps could be rack eyelets or not? the serial # is on the
carbon steel seat tube no seams
local expert sez it rides like a Tuscany. the saddle is made of
concrete.
A freind gave a woman's double tube model for parts!
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Date: 10 May 2007 08:43:58
From: rick-paulos@uiowa.edu
Subject: Re: Name that Raleigh?
|
In the early- mid 1970s we sold Gran Prixs that were made in 3
countries. England, Ireland and in the old Gazzel factory in
Holland. Raleigh was pretty much at the end of their aquisitions
phase and was using purchased factories to make Raleighs for the USA
bike boom. We could really tell the difference in finish quality
between the three. They were all equiped the same except the England
model had nottignham on the head tube label wheresas the others were
blanked out.
That bike has all the gran prix signatures. Stamped dropouts, 1/2
chromed fork, wrap around seat stays. The sawed off center pull brake
bridge was used on all the models from the gran prix to
international. grand prix, super course, super course tt, grand
sport, competition, international.
the sprite, record, super tourist and professional used side pull
brakes as did all the 3-speeds (except for the tourist) and kids 3-
speed bikes.
The tourist 3-speed used the rod brakes, a cable less, all linkage
system that pull the brake pads up against the insides of the rim.
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Date: 10 May 2007 11:15:29
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Name that Raleigh?
|
rick-paulos@uiowa.edu wrote:
> In the early- mid 1970s we sold Gran Prixs that were made in 3
> countries. England, Ireland and in the old Gazzel factory in
> Holland. Raleigh was pretty much at the end of their aquisitions
> phase and was using purchased factories to make Raleighs for the USA
> bike boom. We could really tell the difference in finish quality
> between the three. They were all equiped the same except the England
> model had nottignham on the head tube label wheresas the others were
> blanked out.
>
> That bike has all the gran prix signatures. Stamped dropouts, 1/2
> chromed fork, wrap around seat stays. The sawed off center pull brake
> bridge was used on all the models from the gran prix to
> international. grand prix, super course, super course tt, grand
> sport, competition, international.
>
> the sprite, record, super tourist and professional used side pull
> brakes as did all the 3-speeds (except for the tourist) and kids 3-
> speed bikes.
>
> The tourist 3-speed used the rod brakes, a cable less, all linkage
> system that pull the brake pads up against the insides of the rim.
Gran Prix have a 25.4 (mild steel tube) seatposts, Super Corse are 26.4
(26.6? Reynolds PG anyway) .OP (Ryan) might check that
Regarding various Raleigh divisions, the Humbers were best quality
Sports models and Phillips were on the bottom. You're right that
'quality' was a crapshoot some days.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 10 May 2007 19:46:16
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Name that Raleigh?
|
In article <1346h9vlpff4ra0@corp.supernews.com >,
A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> rick-paulos@uiowa.edu wrote:
> > In the early- mid 1970s we sold Gran Prixs that were made in 3
> > countries. England, Ireland and in the old Gazzel factory in
> > Holland. Raleigh was pretty much at the end of their aquisitions
> > phase and was using purchased factories to make Raleighs for the USA
> > bike boom. We could really tell the difference in finish quality
> > between the three. They were all equiped the same except the England
> > model had nottignham on the head tube label wheresas the others were
> > blanked out.
This one says "Nottingham England" on the badge.
> > That bike has all the gran prix signatures. Stamped dropouts, 1/2
> > chromed fork, wrap around seat stays. The sawed off center pull brake
> > bridge was used on all the models from the gran prix to
> > international. grand prix, super course, super course tt, grand
> > sport, competition, international.
> >
> > the sprite, record, super tourist and professional used side pull
> > brakes as did all the 3-speeds (except for the tourist) and kids 3-
> > speed bikes.
> Gran Prix have a 25.4 (mild steel tube) seatposts, Super Corse are 26.4
> (26.6? Reynolds PG anyway) .OP (Ryan) might check that
I think we have a winner: 25.4 seatpost, naff steel holding up a suede
saddle.
I couldn't feel a tube seam when I poked my finger in the seatpost, but
I may not have been trying very hard. To answer another poster's
question, the sn was stamped vertically on the back of the seat tube,
just below the clamp slot. Fun: it took a few tries to convince myself
that the seatpost clamp bolt was BSW. Fortunately, I have a fine
collection of "Cles Anglaise".
So it looks like mild steel is the winner. I now suspect the Shimano 600
cranks (165, it looks like) are an add-on, possibly a complement to the
Dia-Compe sidepulls that were also added.
Oh well, it will make a nice bookend with the Peugeot I pulled out of
the trash, probably a UO-8.
Frames, say hello to Craigslist...
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 11 May 2007 14:03:45
From: Donald Gillies
Subject: Re: Name that Raleigh?
|
Super Course never used those lugs. Bocama "feature cut" lugs were
most often used by Gran Prix's. Super Course used either (a) Nervex
(1970-2), Capella (1973), Prugnat(1974-6), then Bocama Pro(1977-80).
Raleigh more or less discontinued wrapover stays by the mid-70's (1973
for the high-end Carlton's, maybe later for the Holland-based Gazelle
bikes; this one is undoubtedly a Gazelle bike.)
That stuff on the rear triangle is the sawed-off centerpull arch that
came standard with 9 out of 10 bikes from Carlton (except a handfull
of sidepull models in those years.)
The clincher will be the unique 26TPI threads on the bottom bracket.
The opening at the top of the head lug suggests very early 1970's,
maybe 1970-1973.
Don't write off this frame; it was built before CPSC regulations
instituted a "crash test" requirement for all imported bikes. This
bike qualifies as a "club racer" and with those parts, the bike is
probably a respectable 26 lbs (or maybe 25.) Stock with all-steel
parts, the bike was 28lbs (21.5").
- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA
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Date: 10 May 2007 13:03:26
From: Marcus Coles
Subject: Re: Name that Raleigh?
|
A Muzi wrote:
> rick-paulos@uiowa.edu wrote:
>> In the early- mid 1970s we sold Gran Prixs that were made in 3
>> countries. England, Ireland and in the old Gazzel factory in
>> Holland. Raleigh was pretty much at the end of their aquisitions
>> phase and was using purchased factories to make Raleighs for the USA
>> bike boom. We could really tell the difference in finish quality
>> between the three. They were all equiped the same except the England
>> model had nottignham on the head tube label wheresas the others were
>> blanked out.
>>
>> That bike has all the gran prix signatures. Stamped dropouts, 1/2
>> chromed fork, wrap around seat stays. The sawed off center pull brake
>> bridge was used on all the models from the gran prix to
>> international. grand prix, super course, super course tt, grand
>> sport, competition, international.
>>
>> the sprite, record, super tourist and professional used side pull
>> brakes as did all the 3-speeds (except for the tourist) and kids 3-
>> speed bikes.
>>
>> The tourist 3-speed used the rod brakes, a cable less, all linkage
>> system that pull the brake pads up against the insides of the rim.
>
> Gran Prix have a 25.4 (mild steel tube) seatposts, Super Corse are 26.4
> (26.6? Reynolds PG anyway) .OP (Ryan) might check that
>
> Regarding various Raleigh divisions, the Humbers were best quality
> Sports models and Phillips were on the bottom. You're right that
> 'quality' was a crapshoot some days.
I agree all the Super Course have seen were 3 tube Reynolds 531 plain
gauge, and IIRC didn't have wrapped seatstay caps.
The mid 70's Canadian made Grand Prix still had Nottingham head badges.
Despite rumours to the contrary Nottingham quality was predictable, the
Wednesday made bikes were always the best. ;-)
Marcus
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Date: 10 May 2007 10:24:34
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Name that Raleigh?
|
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> So, I've been picking stuff out of the trash again, as it was clean-up
> week nearby.
>
> I found a Raleigh lightweight, but I don't know how old it is.
>
> Difficulty: some previous owner brush-painted it yellow. The paint
> underneath appears to be pearl white. Metal Heron badge on the front.
>
> The components range from a Suntour Cyclone M-II front der to a pair of
> Shimano 600 "arabesque" cranks. I am skeptical that they are all
> original.
>
> The brake levers are Weinmann with white Carlton brake hoods; stem is a
> black 1" threaded Raleigh threaded piece clamping a Sakae bar (white
> padded vinyl bar tape).
>
> Serial number: RN903044 Is that a Kent, WA sn, or maybe a Canadian
> factory sn?
>
> Photos:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcousine/491850276/
>
> seat stays wrap around the seatpost, and note the "R" on the post clamp
> bolt:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcousine/491850548/in/photostream/
>
> Some odd lumps on the seat stays above the brake bridge, apparently
> something cut off or filled in. Maybe a canti/Mafac cable stop bridge
> cut away?
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcousine/491850800/in/photostream/
>
> The bike is sized for 700c wheels.
>
> Any guess as to what its age or tubing or class level is?
>
> TIA,
>
Early seventies Super Corsa. The stem is late '80s Kent WA Raleigh by
SR-Sakae. no idea on number series but it is 3-tubes PG Reynolds.
'lumps' are some home project, not factory.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 10 May 2007 08:23:59
From: Tom Ace
Subject: Re: Name that Raleigh?
|
On May 10, 6:48 am, Marcus Coles <marco...@ody.ca > wrote:
> If I am right it would be Raleigh 20-30 high tensile, straight gauge tubing.
That was my guess too.
Raleigh 20-30 tubing was seamed; you can feel
the seam on the inside of the seat tube.
Tom Ace
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Date: 10 May 2007 09:48:45
From: Marcus Coles
Subject: Re: Name that Raleigh?
|
Judging by the lugs, drop outs, wrap around seatstays and what was once
a rear brake cable stop for probably a set of Weinmann centre pulls I
say Grand Prix 1978 or earlier. 700c wheels will fit a 27" wheeled
Grand Prix with just a brake adjustment.
If I am right it would be Raleigh 20-30 high tensile, straight gauge tubing.
If the bottom bracket is BSC thread it is probably Worksop or Canadian
production.
As a matter of interest where is the Serial# stamped, I have one "Made
in England" I can't read the serial on the dropout and it has just an X
on the BB shell. Another one Canadian made has RE3630485 on the BB
shell and yet another Canadian made has RK903951 on the back of the seat
tube.
My brother has a 1969 and looks pretty much the same, but with a set of
Carlton Decals in addition to the Raleigh scripts and headbadge. Up
dated with Japanese components other than the Weinmann brakes it still
weighs in at 25lbs, he uses it for a psychological advantage on group
rides. :-)
If you are wondering why someone would have so many of these things,
they are usually cheap or free, come in sizes from 21" to 27" and make
dandy low risk loaners.
Marcus
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