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Main
Date: 07 May 2007 04:02:22
From: swayzak
Subject: Pleae help - screwed up my gears !
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hi
I tried to setup my rear derailleur today, as it was getting a bit
sloppy (high to low changing needing 2 clicks on shifter, then
sometimes jumping 2 gears).
Shimano LX.
Attempted to follow instructions, both in Marin manual (it's a Nail
Trail) and from here:
http://mountainbike.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ/Ya&sdn=mountainbike&cdn=sports&tm=20&f=00&tt=14&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http%3A//www.utahmountainbiking.com/fix/index.htm
So I changed to smallest cog on back, noticed some cable slack so used
the black plastic cable adjuster (rather than unclamping the cable and
pulling taught with pliers).
This took many turn of the adjuster but the cable tightened up.
However, the gears now refuse to move on to the smallest cog at all.
It seems as though the whole shift system as moved "into" the wheel
e.g. shifter produces a lower gear cog at the rear derailleur than
actually selected.
I have tried messing around with the high / low adjustment screws but
they don't seem to do anything at all.
So basically I've screwed them up :(
I need this bike for commuting (starting again tomorrow) - can anyone
help me get this sorted ??
thanks
swayzak
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Date: 08 May 2007 11:21:59
From: swayzak
Subject: Re: Pleae help - screwed up my gears !
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On 8 May, 16:12, Ben C <spams...@spam.eggs > wrote:
> [...]
>
> > Some things I've noticed though:
>
> > 1. The cable seems a bit slack e.g where it runs down the main part of
> > the frame e.g. you can pull it like a loose guitar string.
>
> Yes but in which gears?
>
> > Still, shifts down fine so must be OK.
>
> That's the main thing. It's not a guitar after all.
>
> > 2. The bottom pulley cog of the rear derailleur seems to almost tilt
> > inwards a bit on it's axis e.g. the bottom of the cog is slightly
> > nearer the wheel than the top. Is this normal ?
>
> Sometimes they do look a bit like that, but maybe yours is also bent.
>
> [...]
>
> > 4. The lowest 1 or 2 gears when on the biggest front chainwheel cog
> > are very rattlely - is this to be expected as the chain is running at
> > a significant diagonal across to the rear inner cogs ?
>
> Pretty much, although perhaps your cage is bent.
>
> > One would probably never use these gears in practice anyway....
>
> Certainly not biggest/biggest. You might use the next one.
>
> > 5. My front derailleur is very close to the chain when in highest
> > possible gear (on outer front chainwheel) e.g fraction of a mm
>
> Is it the inside or the outside of the derailleur that's close to the
> chain?
>
> > Tried to adjust the high gear screw on the front derailleur to move
> > the derailleur out a fraction but this didn't seem to do anything - is
> > this Ok ?
>
> If it's the outside that's too close to the chain you might need a bit
> more tension in that cable. But if it shifts all right and doesn't rub
> leave it alone.
>
> Also observe how close it looks in different sprockets at the rear.
> Because of the different chainlines, on different rear sprockets, the
> chain will appear to be at different positions relative to the front
> derailleur. If it's not rubbing against the derailleur at either end of
> the range, it's basically in good shape.
Thanks again.
Now I'm going to try and change my Hayes Nine hydraulic brake pads -
if I can set up my derailleur then I'm sure I can do this ;)
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Date: 08 May 2007 18:30:28
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Pleae help - screwed up my gears !
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-snip gear system
swayzak wrote:
> Now I'm going to try and change my Hayes Nine hydraulic brake pads -
> if I can set up my derailleur then I'm sure I can do this ;)
Don't monkey with that system at all. Drop the wheel, pop out pads, pop
in pads, install wheel.
Oh, and ensure some passerby doesn't squeeze a brake lever while a wheel
is out.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 08 May 2007 07:15:22
From: swayzak
Subject: Re: Pleae help - screwed up my gears !
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On May 8, 2:34 am, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> swayzak wrote:
> > hi
>
> > I tried to setup my rear derailleur today, as it was getting a bit
> > sloppy (high to low changing needing 2 clicks on shifter, then
> > sometimes jumping 2 gears).
>
> > Shimano LX.
>
> > Attempted to follow instructions, both in Marin manual (it's a Nail
> > Trail) and from here:
>
> >http://mountainbike.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ/Ya&sdn=m...
>
> > So I changed to smallest cog on back, noticed some cable slack so used
> > the black plastic cable adjuster (rather than unclamping the cable and
> > pulling taught with pliers).
>
> > This took many turn of the adjuster but the cable tightened up.
>
> > However, the gears now refuse to move on to the smallest cog at all.
>
> > It seems as though the whole shift system as moved "into" the wheel
> > e.g. shifter produces a lower gear cog at the rear derailleur than
> > actually selected.
>
> > I have tried messing around with the high / low adjustment screws but
> > they don't seem to do anything at all.
>
> > So basically I've screwed them up :(
>
> > I need this bike for commuting (starting again tomorrow) - can anyone
> > help me get this sorted ??
>
> Disconnect the gear wire.
> Ensure the derailleur and tab are aligned, adjust the derailleur limits
> and shift it forcefully with your thumb so you know it cannot shift into
> the spokes past the low gear.
> Oil the cable adjuster. Connect the gear wire and adjust so it is just
> taut in high gear. Shift a few times to ensure the various cable
> fittings are seated then center the derailleur under one of the middle
> cogs by fine tuning the cable adjuster.
>
> Ditzing around with both the physical limits and the wire tension
> simultaneously is asking for frustration.
> --
> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
thanks everyone
Sorted it - mainly thanks to:
http://parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=64
In fact they seem to now run smoother than ever
Some things I've noticed though:
1. The cable seems a bit slack e.g where it runs down the main part of
the frame e.g. you can pull it like a loose guitar string.
Still, shifts down fine so must be OK.
2. The bottom pulley cog of the rear derailleur seems to almost tilt
inwards a bit on it's axis e.g. the bottom of the cog is slightly
nearer the wheel than the top. Is this normal ?
3. The above link mentions Shimano "Rapid Rise" or "Low-Normal"
Derailleur Indexing Adjustment - does this apply to my gears (Shimano
LX) ?
4. The lowest 1 or 2 gears when on the biggest front chainwheel cog
are very rattlely - is this to be expected as the chain is running at
a significant diagonal across to the rear inner cogs ? One would
probably never use these gears in practice anyway....
5. My front derailleur is very close to the chain when in highest
possible gear (on outer front chainwheel) e.g fraction of a mm
Tried to adjust the high gear screw on the front derailleur to move
the derailleur out a fraction but this didn't seem to do anything - is
this Ok ?
cheers
swayzak
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Date: 09 May 2007 16:06:40
From: John Everett
Subject: Re: Pleae help - screwed up my gears !
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On 8 May 2007 07:15:22 -0700, swayzak <dp75@le.ac.uk > wrote:
>
>1. The cable seems a bit slack e.g where it runs down the main part of
>the frame e.g. you can pull it like a loose guitar string.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is to make sure the cable
runs freely through the cable guide under the bottom bracket. A few
drops of oil will usually do the trick
--
jeverett3<AT >sbcglobal<DOT>net (John V. Everett)
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Date: 08 May 2007 23:21:22
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Pleae help - screwed up my gears !
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In article
<1178633722.602873.43720@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com >,
swayzak <dp75@le.ac.uk > wrote:
> Some things I've noticed though:
>
> 1. The cable seems a bit slack e.g where it runs down the main part of
> the frame e.g. you can pull it like a loose guitar string.
What happens when you attempt to pull the cable parallel to its
length? Any slack at all? There is a substantial mechanical
advantage when pulling a length of clamped cable transverse to it
run.
--
Michael Press
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Date: 08 May 2007 10:12:55
From: Ben C
Subject: Re: Pleae help - screwed up my gears !
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[...]
> Some things I've noticed though:
>
> 1. The cable seems a bit slack e.g where it runs down the main part of
> the frame e.g. you can pull it like a loose guitar string.
Yes but in which gears?
> Still, shifts down fine so must be OK.
That's the main thing. It's not a guitar after all.
> 2. The bottom pulley cog of the rear derailleur seems to almost tilt
> inwards a bit on it's axis e.g. the bottom of the cog is slightly
> nearer the wheel than the top. Is this normal ?
Sometimes they do look a bit like that, but maybe yours is also bent.
[...]
> 4. The lowest 1 or 2 gears when on the biggest front chainwheel cog
> are very rattlely - is this to be expected as the chain is running at
> a significant diagonal across to the rear inner cogs ?
Pretty much, although perhaps your cage is bent.
> One would probably never use these gears in practice anyway....
Certainly not biggest/biggest. You might use the next one.
> 5. My front derailleur is very close to the chain when in highest
> possible gear (on outer front chainwheel) e.g fraction of a mm
Is it the inside or the outside of the derailleur that's close to the
chain?
> Tried to adjust the high gear screw on the front derailleur to move
> the derailleur out a fraction but this didn't seem to do anything - is
> this Ok ?
If it's the outside that's too close to the chain you might need a bit
more tension in that cable. But if it shifts all right and doesn't rub
leave it alone.
Also observe how close it looks in different sprockets at the rear.
Because of the different chainlines, on different rear sprockets, the
chain will appear to be at different positions relative to the front
derailleur. If it's not rubbing against the derailleur at either end of
the range, it's basically in good shape.
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Date: 07 May 2007 20:34:43
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Pleae help - screwed up my gears !
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swayzak wrote:
> hi
>
> I tried to setup my rear derailleur today, as it was getting a bit
> sloppy (high to low changing needing 2 clicks on shifter, then
> sometimes jumping 2 gears).
>
> Shimano LX.
>
> Attempted to follow instructions, both in Marin manual (it's a Nail
> Trail) and from here:
>
> http://mountainbike.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ/Ya&sdn=mountainbike&cdn=sports&tm=20&f=00&tt=14&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http%3A//www.utahmountainbiking.com/fix/index.htm
>
>
> So I changed to smallest cog on back, noticed some cable slack so used
> the black plastic cable adjuster (rather than unclamping the cable and
> pulling taught with pliers).
>
> This took many turn of the adjuster but the cable tightened up.
>
> However, the gears now refuse to move on to the smallest cog at all.
>
> It seems as though the whole shift system as moved "into" the wheel
> e.g. shifter produces a lower gear cog at the rear derailleur than
> actually selected.
>
> I have tried messing around with the high / low adjustment screws but
> they don't seem to do anything at all.
>
> So basically I've screwed them up :(
>
> I need this bike for commuting (starting again tomorrow) - can anyone
> help me get this sorted ??
Disconnect the gear wire.
Ensure the derailleur and tab are aligned, adjust the derailleur limits
and shift it forcefully with your thumb so you know it cannot shift into
the spokes past the low gear.
Oil the cable adjuster. Connect the gear wire and adjust so it is just
taut in high gear. Shift a few times to ensure the various cable
fittings are seated then center the derailleur under one of the middle
cogs by fine tuning the cable adjuster.
Ditzing around with both the physical limits and the wire tension
simultaneously is asking for frustration.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 07 May 2007 08:54:59
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Pleae help - screwed up my gears !
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In article <1178535742.328819.24380@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com >,
swayzak <dp75@le.ac.uk > wrote:
> hi
>
> I tried to setup my rear derailleur today, as it was getting a bit
> sloppy (high to low changing needing 2 clicks on shifter, then
> sometimes jumping 2 gears).
That's a symptom of too much slack in the cable. You also might have
difficulty getting the chain into the lowest gear (e.g. on the biggest
cog) on the cassette.
> So I changed to smallest cog on back, noticed some cable slack so
> used the black plastic cable adjuster (rather than unclamping the
> cable and pulling taught with pliers).
And there's the slack.
> This took many turn of the adjuster but the cable tightened up.
>
> However, the gears now refuse to move on to the smallest cog at all.
>
> It seems as though the whole shift system as moved "into" the wheel
> e.g. shifter produces a lower gear cog at the rear derailleur than
> actually selected.
>
> I have tried messing around with the high / low adjustment screws but
> they don't seem to do anything at all.
Out of curiosity, why didn't you put it back the way it was and start
over? Or simply try screwing the cable adjuster back in in small
increments until it shifted correctly? Just a few turns would probably
do it.
> So basically I've screwed them up :(
Not irretrievably. And FWIW almost all of us have done it, too.
> I need this bike for commuting (starting again tomorrow) - can anyone
> help me get this sorted ??
Read this:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html
Hope this helps.
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Date: 07 May 2007 05:10:22
From: swayzak
Subject: Re: Pleae help - screwed up my gears !
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On 7 May, 12:17, Ben C <spams...@spam.eggs > wrote:
> On 2007-05-07, swayzak <d...@le.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > hi
>
> > I tried to setup my rear derailleur today, as it was getting a bit
> > sloppy (high to low changing needing 2 clicks on shifter, then
> > sometimes jumping 2 gears).
>
> That sounds like cable a bit too loose.
>
> > Shimano LX.
>
> > Attempted to follow instructions, both in Marin manual (it's a Nail
> > Trail) and from here:
>
> >http://mountainbike.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ/Ya&sdn=m...
>
> > So I changed to smallest cog on back, noticed some cable slack so used
> > the black plastic cable adjuster (rather than unclamping the cable and
> > pulling taught with pliers).
>
> > This took many turn of the adjuster but the cable tightened up.
>
> > However, the gears now refuse to move on to the smallest cog at all.
>
> Sounds like you tightened up the cable a bit too much.
>
> > It seems as though the whole shift system as moved "into" the wheel
> > e.g. shifter produces a lower gear cog at the rear derailleur than
> > actually selected.
>
> This is consistent with the cable being too tight.
>
> > I have tried messing around with the high / low adjustment screws but
> > they don't seem to do anything at all.
>
> Those are just hard limits at the end.
>
> > So basically I've screwed them up :(
>
> > I need this bike for commuting (starting again tomorrow) - can anyone
> > help me get this sorted ??
>
> Loosen the cable until it's just slack again when on the smallest
> sprocket. Set the limit screw on that end to keep the cage from going
> further out than the smallest sprocket. Then tighten up the cable a bit.
> Then ride around for a while shifting gears, but don't go right down
> into first. If it seems reluctant to change down (to bigger sprockets),
> tighten the cable a bit-- 1/2 or 1/4 turn of the adjuster at a time
> usually. If it seems reluctant to change up, loosen it by about the same
> amount. If you go too far either way, go back half the amount the other.
> It's usually not too difficult to get right.
>
> When it feels about right, shift it into first, unscrewing the limit
> screw a bit if necessary. Once it's in first, tighten the limit screw
> until you can feel it just limiting it. Do the same thing with top
> (smallest sprocket)-- put it in top then screw in the limit screw to
> just limit it there and stop it going any further. Check it still goes
> into first and top OK. If not loosen the relevant limit screw a bit.
Thanks - off to try it now !
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Date: 07 May 2007 06:17:40
From: Ben C
Subject: Re: Pleae help - screwed up my gears !
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On 2007-05-07, swayzak <dp75@le.ac.uk > wrote:
> hi
>
> I tried to setup my rear derailleur today, as it was getting a bit
> sloppy (high to low changing needing 2 clicks on shifter, then
> sometimes jumping 2 gears).
That sounds like cable a bit too loose.
> Shimano LX.
>
> Attempted to follow instructions, both in Marin manual (it's a Nail
> Trail) and from here:
>
> http://mountainbike.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ/Ya&sdn=mountainbike&cdn=sports&tm=20&f=00&tt=14&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http%3A//www.utahmountainbiking.com/fix/index.htm
>
>
> So I changed to smallest cog on back, noticed some cable slack so used
> the black plastic cable adjuster (rather than unclamping the cable and
> pulling taught with pliers).
>
> This took many turn of the adjuster but the cable tightened up.
>
> However, the gears now refuse to move on to the smallest cog at all.
Sounds like you tightened up the cable a bit too much.
> It seems as though the whole shift system as moved "into" the wheel
> e.g. shifter produces a lower gear cog at the rear derailleur than
> actually selected.
This is consistent with the cable being too tight.
> I have tried messing around with the high / low adjustment screws but
> they don't seem to do anything at all.
Those are just hard limits at the end.
> So basically I've screwed them up :(
>
> I need this bike for commuting (starting again tomorrow) - can anyone
> help me get this sorted ??
Loosen the cable until it's just slack again when on the smallest
sprocket. Set the limit screw on that end to keep the cage from going
further out than the smallest sprocket. Then tighten up the cable a bit.
Then ride around for a while shifting gears, but don't go right down
into first. If it seems reluctant to change down (to bigger sprockets),
tighten the cable a bit-- 1/2 or 1/4 turn of the adjuster at a time
usually. If it seems reluctant to change up, loosen it by about the same
amount. If you go too far either way, go back half the amount the other.
It's usually not too difficult to get right.
When it feels about right, shift it into first, unscrewing the limit
screw a bit if necessary. Once it's in first, tighten the limit screw
until you can feel it just limiting it. Do the same thing with top
(smallest sprocket)-- put it in top then screw in the limit screw to
just limit it there and stop it going any further. Check it still goes
into first and top OK. If not loosen the relevant limit screw a bit.
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