Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

bicycle-forum.net
Promoting biking discussion.

Main

Date: 23 Jul 2007 10:55:58
From: Andy Froncioni
Subject: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
- PT SL hub
- DT Aerolite spokes
- Reynolds Solitude rim
- 24-spoke
- 2-cross

The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?

Ready? Go! :-)

Date: 27 Jul 2007 18:38:18
From: Brian Huntley
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

On Jul 23, 3:32 pm, Zog The Undeniable <hrothga...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Andy Froncioni wrote:
> > I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
> > - PT SL hub
> > - DT Aerolite spokes
> > - Reynolds Solitude rim
> > - 24-spoke
> > - 2-cross
>
> > The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?
>
> > Ready? Go! :-)
>
> Inboard on a freewheel, outboard on a fixie, to reduce the (already
> small) risk of chain jamming.

So - asymmetric on a flip-flop fixed/free?

Date: 27 Jul 2007 19:30:33
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

Brian Huntley wrote:
> On Jul 23, 3:32 pm, Zog The Undeniable <hrothga...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Andy Froncioni wrote:
>>> I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
>>> - PT SL hub
>>> - DT Aerolite spokes
>>> - Reynolds Solitude rim
>>> - 24-spoke
>>> - 2-cross
>>> The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?
>>> Ready? Go! :-)
>> Inboard on a freewheel, outboard on a fixie, to reduce the (already
>> small) risk of chain jamming.
>
> So - asymmetric on a flip-flop fixed/free?
>

if you download the pdf for shimano mtb disk brake rear hubs, you'll see
that's what they recommend for that similar stress arrangement.

Date: 25 Jul 2007 21:38:13
From: RicodJour
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

On Jul 23, 3:37 pm, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Andy Froncioni writes:
> > I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
> > - PT SL hub
> > - DT Aerolite spokes
> > - Reynolds Solitude rim
> > - 24-spoke
> > - 2-cross
> > The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?
> > Ready? Go! :-)
>
> Where did you get the term "pulling spokes"?

As opposed to....what? Yanking spokes? That sounds Chinese - the odd
of the bike being made there are pretty fair, so maybe that's
accurate. Attraction spokes? Sounds too Middle English. Draw
spokes? Antiquated card game. Since they're in tension, aren't all
spokes pulling spokes? Hauling spokes? That's a good term for riding
fast or the name of a band.

R

Date: 24 Jul 2007 12:35:24
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

On Jul 23, 11:55 am, Andy Froncioni <a.fronci...@sympatico.ca > wrote:
> I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
> - PT SL hub
> - DT Aerolite spokes
> - Reynolds Solitude rim
> - 24-spoke
> - 2-cross
>
> The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?
>
> Ready? Go! :-)

Makes no difference. Just build well.

Date: 23 Jul 2007 22:03:01
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

On Jul 23, 9:13 pm, Ron Ruff <rruffrr...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Jul 23, 4:01 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
> > The supposed advantage to pulling spokes on the outside is wider
> > effective flange spacing, for a slight increase in lateral strength.
>
> I've heard that theory as well, but since the inside spokes cross
> *over* the outside spokes, it sure looks like they have the wider
> spacing to me.

I did say "supposed" advantage. I've built four or five times times as
many wheels with the pulling spokes inside compared to outside. The
advantage of shielding those spokes from chain damage seemed much more
tangible to me.

Date: 23 Jul 2007 21:22:28
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

Andy Froncioni wrote:
> I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
> - PT SL hub
> - DT Aerolite spokes
> - Reynolds Solitude rim
> - 24-spoke
> - 2-cross
>
> The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?
>
> Ready? Go! :-)
>

theoretically, pulling spokes should be inboard. but in reality, you'll
never notice any difference, especially not where spokes are interleaved.

Date: 23 Jul 2007 21:13:30
From: Ron Ruff
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

On Jul 23, 4:01 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net > wrote:
> The supposed advantage to pulling spokes on the outside is wider
> effective flange spacing, for a slight increase in lateral strength.

I've heard that theory as well, but since the inside spokes cross
*over* the outside spokes, it sure looks like they have the wider
spacing to me.

Date: 23 Jul 2007 15:01:31
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

On Jul 23, 10:55 am, Andy Froncioni <a.fronci...@sympatico.ca > wrote:
> I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
> - PT SL hub
> - DT Aerolite spokes
> - Reynolds Solitude rim
> - 24-spoke
> - 2-cross
>
> The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?
>
> Ready? Go! :-)

The supposed advantage to pulling spokes on the outside is wider
effective flange spacing, for a slight increase in lateral strength.

I've built wheels both ways, and like Jobst says, the diffference is
trivial either way. Tension your spokes correctly, and adjust your RD,
and neither way will make any difference.

Date: 23 Jul 2007 20:55:56
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

Hank Wirtz wrote:
> On Jul 23, 10:55 am, Andy Froncioni <a.fronci...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
>> - PT SL hub
>> - DT Aerolite spokes
>> - Reynolds Solitude rim
>> - 24-spoke
>> - 2-cross
>>
>> The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?
>>
>> Ready? Go! :-)
>
> The supposed advantage to pulling spokes on the outside is wider
> effective flange spacing, for a slight increase in lateral strength.

but the lateral component is not required for "pulling". indeed, stress
rise in "pulling" for spokes with more displacement is greater than
those closer to the radius, hence having the inboard spokes pull is in
theory preferable.

>
> I've built wheels both ways, and like Jobst says, the diffference is
> trivial either way.

indeed, that's the practical reality.

> Tension your spokes correctly, and adjust your RD,
> and neither way will make any difference.
>

Date: 23 Jul 2007 21:32:38
From: Zog The Undeniable
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

Date: 23 Jul 2007 13:04:27
From: Mark
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

Andy Froncioni wrote:
> I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
> - PT SL hub
> - DT Aerolite spokes
> - Reynolds Solitude rim
> - 24-spoke
> - 2-cross
>
> The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?
>
> Ready? Go! :-)

Extremely minor difference between inside and outside.

An advantage to "inside" is that if the chain goes into the spokes, it
is less likely to tighten and jam with pedaling. Even though
chain-into-spokes is unlikely with a well-adjusted bike, the jams can be
bad enough when they happen to make "inside" a good choice.

Mark J.

Date: 23 Jul 2007 19:37:19
From:
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

Andy Froncioni writes:

> I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
> - PT SL hub
> - DT Aerolite spokes
> - Reynolds Solitude rim
> - 24-spoke
> - 2-cross

> The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?

> Ready? Go! :-)

Where did you get the term "pulling spokes"? As I recall, that term
arose in "the Bicycle Wheel" and that suggests you may have read
something in that book. If so, you might read the answer to your
question there, but don't hold your breath. This is trivia and makes
no functional difference. The book gives an excuse for doing it one
way or the other, but that's about all.

Jobst Brandt

Date: 28 Jul 2007 13:50:06
From: daveornee
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org Wrote:
> Andy Froncioni writes:
>
> > I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
> > - PT SL hub
> > - DT Aerolite spokes
> > - Reynolds Solitude rim
> > - 24-spoke
> > - 2-cross
>
> > The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?
>
> > Ready? Go! :-)
>
> Where did you get the term "pulling spokes"? As I recall, that term
> arose in "the Bicycle Wheel" and that suggests you may have read
> something in that book. If so, you might read the answer to your
> question there, but don't hold your breath. This is trivia and makes
> no functional difference. The book gives an excuse for doing it one
> way or the other, but that's about all.
>
> Jobst Brandt
So what happens if all the drive side spokes have heads in and all the
non-drive spokes have heads out?
Would there be better spokes tension balance? and if so, what would be
the disadvantage(s)?

--
daveornee

Date: 24 Jul 2007 05:48:04
From: Andy Froncioni
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

Thank you all for your answers. It certainly sounds like I won't be
making a mistake by putting the pulling spokes inboard.

And, yes, Jobst, I have bought a copy of your book and read it. But I
thought there might be other opinions out there, too.
;-)

Date: 24 Jul 2007 15:38:08
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

Dans le message de
news:1185281284.569248.20140@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com,
Andy Froncioni <a.froncioni@sympatico.ca > a r�fl�chi, et puis a d�clar� :
> Thank you all for your answers. It certainly sounds like I won't be
> making a mistake by putting the pulling spokes inboard.
>
> And, yes, Jobst, I have bought a copy of your book and read it. But I
> thought there might be other opinions out there, too.
> ;-)

Not permitted. Not legal. Stop at once.
--
Sandy

The above is guaranteed 100% free of sarcasm,
denigration, snotty remarks, indifference, platitudes, fuming demands that
"you do the math", conceited visions of a better world on wheels according
to [insert NAME here].

Date: 24 Jul 2007 05:18:59
From: Bitter Apples
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

On 23 Jul 2007 19:37:19 GMT, jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:

>Where did you get the term "pulling spokes"? As I recall, that term
>arose in "the Bicycle Wheel" and that suggests you may have read
>something in that book. If so, you might read the answer to your
>question there, but don't hold your breath. This is trivia and makes
>no functional difference. The book gives an excuse for doing it one
>way or the other, but that's about all.

Page 74, Second Edition:

"Pulling spokes coming from the inside of the flange would draw the spokes
away from the derailleur. To improve rear derailleur clearance rear wheels
should be spoked mirror-image with the pulling spokes coming from between
the flanges."

There doesn't appear to be anything ambiguous about which way to install
the spokes in a rear wheel.

Date: 23 Jul 2007 20:58:49
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Andy Froncioni writes:
>
>> I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
>> - PT SL hub
>> - DT Aerolite spokes
>> - Reynolds Solitude rim
>> - 24-spoke
>> - 2-cross
>
>> The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?
>
>> Ready? Go! :-)
>
> Where did you get the term "pulling spokes"? As I recall, that term
> arose in "the Bicycle Wheel" and that suggests you may have read
> something in that book. If so, you might read the answer to your
> question there, but don't hold your breath. This is trivia and makes
> no functional difference. The book gives an excuse for doing it one
> way or the other, but that's about all.
>
> Jobst Brandt

rather than claim credit for something that predates your mortal arrival
on this earth, and then bitch about the op's impertinence in asking a
question you don't condescend to answer in your great, irrefutable and
in all respects correct and perfect book, why don't you answer the man's
question? it's not hard.

Date: 27 Jul 2007 19:12:08
From: richard
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

Although I agree with your statement on JB's "tone", he did in fact
answer the question - it makes no difference.

jim beam wrote:
> jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>
>> Andy Froncioni writes:
>>
>>> I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
>>> - PT SL hub
>>> - DT Aerolite spokes
>>> - Reynolds Solitude rim
>>> - 24-spoke
>>> - 2-cross
>>
>>
>>> The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?
>>
>>
>>> Ready? Go! :-)
>>
>>
>> Where did you get the term "pulling spokes"? As I recall, that term
>> arose in "the Bicycle Wheel" and that suggests you may have read
>> something in that book. If so, you might read the answer to your
>> question there, but don't hold your breath. This is trivia and makes
>> no functional difference. The book gives an excuse for doing it one
>> way or the other, but that's about all.
>>
>> Jobst Brandt
>
>
> rather than claim credit for something that predates your mortal arrival
> on this earth, and then bitch about the op's impertinence in asking a
> question you don't condescend to answer in your great, irrefutable and
> in all respects correct and perfect book, why don't you answer the man's
> question? it's not hard.

Date: 27 Jul 2007 18:02:28
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

richard wrote:
> Although I agree with your statement on JB's "tone", he did in fact
> answer the question - it makes no difference.

but he doesn't say /why/!!! that would invite scrutiny of the great and
infallible however, so of course, it must be avoided.

>
> jim beam wrote:
>> jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>>
>>> Andy Froncioni writes:
>>>
>>>> I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
>>>> - PT SL hub
>>>> - DT Aerolite spokes
>>>> - Reynolds Solitude rim
>>>> - 24-spoke
>>>> - 2-cross
>>>
>>>
>>>> The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ready? Go! :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Where did you get the term "pulling spokes"? As I recall, that term
>>> arose in "the Bicycle Wheel" and that suggests you may have read
>>> something in that book. If so, you might read the answer to your
>>> question there, but don't hold your breath. This is trivia and makes
>>> no functional difference. The book gives an excuse for doing it one
>>> way or the other, but that's about all.
>>>
>>> Jobst Brandt
>>
>>
>> rather than claim credit for something that predates your mortal
>> arrival on this earth, and then bitch about the op's impertinence in
>> asking a question you don't condescend to answer in your great,
>> irrefutable and in all respects correct and perfect book, why don't
>> you answer the man's question? it's not hard.

Date: 24 Jul 2007 21:35:14
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net > wrote in message
news:l-GdnTlawO1k5TjbnZ2dnUVZ_hjinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> > Andy Froncioni writes:
> >
> >> I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
> >> - PT SL hub
> >> - DT Aerolite spokes
> >> - Reynolds Solitude rim
> >> - 24-spoke
> >> - 2-cross
> >
> >> The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?
> >
> >> Ready? Go! :-)
> >
> > Where did you get the term "pulling spokes"? As I recall, that term
> > arose in "the Bicycle Wheel" and that suggests you may have read
> > something in that book. If so, you might read the answer to your
> > question there, but don't hold your breath. This is trivia and makes
> > no functional difference. The book gives an excuse for doing it one
> > way or the other, but that's about all.
> >
> > Jobst Brandt
>
> rather than claim credit for something that predates your mortal arrival
> on this earth, and then bitch about the op's impertinence in asking a
> question you don't condescend to answer in your great, irrefutable and
> in all respects correct and perfect book, why don't you answer the man's
> question? it's not hard.

I remember the term "pulling spokes" at least back to the early 1970s when
someone was teaching me how to build wheels.

Chas.

Date: 25 Jul 2007 17:31:34
From: John Henderson
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

* * Chas wrote:

> I remember the term "pulling spokes" at least back to the
> early 1970s when someone was teaching me how to build wheels.

Yes, a google search suggests that Jobst's "the Bicycle Wheel"
was first published in 1981.

Likewise I remember the term "pulling spokes" from before that.
I've found one of my old books, "Building Bicycle Wheels" by
Robert Wright, published in 1977. While I would no longer
recommend this book to anyone, the author does use the term, eg
"I believe it's best to build rear wheels symmetrically, with
all the pulling spokes leaving the flanges from the outside
faces" (p13).

John

Date: 25 Jul 2007 21:13:19
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

"John Henderson" <jhenRemoveThis@talk21.com > wrote in message
news:5gocioF3hd9r9U1@mid.individual.net...
> * * Chas wrote:
>
> > I remember the term "pulling spokes" at least back to the
> > early 1970s when someone was teaching me how to build wheels.
>
> Yes, a google search suggests that Jobst's "the Bicycle Wheel"
> was first published in 1981.
>
> Likewise I remember the term "pulling spokes" from before that.
> I've found one of my old books, "Building Bicycle Wheels" by
> Robert Wright, published in 1977. While I would no longer
> recommend this book to anyone, the author does use the term, eg
> "I believe it's best to build rear wheels symmetrically, with
> all the pulling spokes leaving the flanges from the outside
> faces" (p13).
>
> John

Funny, I was always told to have the pulling spokes on the inside - by an
engineer that I worked for at the time.

Chas.

Date: 26 Jul 2007 00:43:05
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

>> * * Chas wrote:
>>> I remember the term "pulling spokes" at least back to the
>>> early 1970s when someone was teaching me how to build wheels.
>> Yes, a google search suggests that Jobst's "the Bicycle Wheel"
>> was first published in 1981.

> "John Henderson" <jhenRemoveThis@talk21.com> wrote:
>> Likewise I remember the term "pulling spokes" from before that.
>> I've found one of my old books, "Building Bicycle Wheels" by
>> Robert Wright, published in 1977. While I would no longer
>> recommend this book to anyone, the author does use the term, eg
>> "I believe it's best to build rear wheels symmetrically, with
>> all the pulling spokes leaving the flanges from the outside
>> faces" (p13).

* * Chas wrote:
> Funny, I was always told to have the pulling spokes on the inside - by an
> engineer that I worked for at the time.

This has been hashed out many times. There are favorable features either
way but no compelling reason to go in or out. We each build as we are
accustomed and it makes no practical difference.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Date: 26 Jul 2007 08:46:08
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote in message
news:13agd3a2qo1o4db@corp.supernews.com...
> >> * * Chas wrote:
> >>> I remember the term "pulling spokes" at least back to the
> >>> early 1970s when someone was teaching me how to build wheels.
> >> Yes, a google search suggests that Jobst's "the Bicycle Wheel"
> >> was first published in 1981.
>
> > "John Henderson" <jhenRemoveThis@talk21.com> wrote:
> >> Likewise I remember the term "pulling spokes" from before that.
> >> I've found one of my old books, "Building Bicycle Wheels" by
> >> Robert Wright, published in 1977. While I would no longer
> >> recommend this book to anyone, the author does use the term, eg
> >> "I believe it's best to build rear wheels symmetrically, with
> >> all the pulling spokes leaving the flanges from the outside
> >> faces" (p13).
>
> * * Chas wrote:
> > Funny, I was always told to have the pulling spokes on the inside - by
an
> > engineer that I worked for at the time.
>
>
> This has been hashed out many times. There are favorable features either
> way but no compelling reason to go in or out. We each build as we are
> accustomed and it makes no practical difference.
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi

This is a timely topic for me as I've been building some wheels lately and
I was wondering what the current opinion was. I was taught that putting
the pulling spokes on the inside protected them from chain damage.

Chas.

Date: 26 Jul 2007 11:30:08
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

>>>> * * Chas wrote:
>>>>> I remember the term "pulling spokes" at least back to the
>>>>> early 1970s when someone was teaching me how to build wheels.
>>>> Yes, a google search suggests that Jobst's "the Bicycle Wheel"
>>>> was first published in 1981.

>>> "John Henderson" <jhenRemoveThis@talk21.com> wrote:
>>>> Likewise I remember the term "pulling spokes" from before that.
>>>> I've found one of my old books, "Building Bicycle Wheels" by
>>>> Robert Wright, published in 1977. While I would no longer
>>>> recommend this book to anyone, the author does use the term, eg
>>>> "I believe it's best to build rear wheels symmetrically, with
>>>> all the pulling spokes leaving the flanges from the outside
>>>> faces" (p13).

>> * * Chas wrote:
>>> Funny, I was always told to have the pulling spokes on the inside - by
>>> an engineer that I worked for at the time.

> "A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> blathered
>> This has been hashed out many times. There are favorable features either
>> way but no compelling reason to go in or out. We each build as we are
>> accustomed and it makes no practical difference.

* * Chas wrote:
> This is a timely topic for me as I've been building some wheels lately and
> I was wondering what the current opinion was. I was taught that putting
> the pulling spokes on the inside protected them from chain damage.

I also build with inside 'pulling' but I don't feel strongly about the
inverse. Either way works.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Date: 25 Jul 2007 21:28:27
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

* * Chas wrote:
> "John Henderson" <jhenRemoveThis@talk21.com> wrote in message
> news:5gocioF3hd9r9U1@mid.individual.net...
>> * * Chas wrote:
>>
>>> I remember the term "pulling spokes" at least back to the
>>> early 1970s when someone was teaching me how to build wheels.
>> Yes, a google search suggests that Jobst's "the Bicycle Wheel"
>> was first published in 1981.
>>
>> Likewise I remember the term "pulling spokes" from before that.
>> I've found one of my old books, "Building Bicycle Wheels" by
>> Robert Wright, published in 1977. While I would no longer
>> recommend this book to anyone, the author does use the term, eg
>> "I believe it's best to build rear wheels symmetrically, with
>> all the pulling spokes leaving the flanges from the outside
>> faces" (p13).
>>
>> John
>
> Funny, I was always told to have the pulling spokes on the inside - by an
> engineer that I worked for at the time.
>
> Chas.
>
>

fwiw, my mavic cosmos rears are outside pulling.

the rationale the traditional config is that under normal radial
loading, the closer the pulling spokes are to the wheel's center plane,
the lower the geometric tension rise. hence you lace for the inside.

the debate comes in when you consider lateral loading as well - it would
be a matter of whether the tension rise due to lateral loading was
comparable to tension increase created by "pulling".

Date: 30 Jul 2007 08:50:36
From: Larry Dickman
Subject: Re: Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

In article <r7idnXwGyPhwvzXbnZ2dnUVZ_siknZ2d@speakeasy.net >,
jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net > wrote:

> * * Chas wrote:
> > "John Henderson" <jhenRemoveThis@talk21.com> wrote in message
> > news:5gocioF3hd9r9U1@mid.individual.net...
> >> * * Chas wrote:
> >>
> >>> I remember the term "pulling spokes" at least back to the
> >>> early 1970s when someone was teaching me how to build wheels.
> >> Yes, a google search suggests that Jobst's "the Bicycle Wheel"
> >> was first published in 1981.
> >>
> >> Likewise I remember the term "pulling spokes" from before that.
> >> I've found one of my old books, "Building Bicycle Wheels" by
> >> Robert Wright, published in 1977. While I would no longer
> >> recommend this book to anyone, the author does use the term, eg
> >> "I believe it's best to build rear wheels symmetrically, with
> >> all the pulling spokes leaving the flanges from the outside
> >> faces" (p13).
> >>
> >> John
> >
> > Funny, I was always told to have the pulling spokes on the inside - by an
> > engineer that I worked for at the time.
> >
> > Chas.
> >
> >
>
> fwiw, my mavic cosmos rears are outside pulling.
>
> the rationale the traditional config is that under normal radial
> loading, the closer the pulling spokes are to the wheel's center plane,
> the lower the geometric tension rise. hence you lace for the inside.
>
> the debate comes in when you consider lateral loading as well - it would
> be a matter of whether the tension rise due to lateral loading was
> comparable to tension increase created by "pulling".

I always build with inside pulling. I've had the derailleur twang the
spokes in low gear when I used a wheel with outside pulling spokes.