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Date: 07 Jun 2007 16:59:30
From: D'ohBoy
Subject: Questions RE: New Narrow Campy Chain
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Hi,
Like many people, I did not do a great deal of investigation prior to
purchasing that new whizbang bike component (Buzzkill bar plugs
anyone?) but I did learn the following about the new Campy narrow
chain prior to dropping $45 + cost of removeable link for the Record
Narrow chain:
- Campy says they should be replaced every 1000 - 1500 miles
- Others say they are hypersensitive to cassette wear (and how!)
So I bought two with the Superlink anyway. Superlink added $14
(each!) to the cost. But the other things they said were true too:
- shifts mighty fine
- quiet as a mouse
Not that my old Wipperman nickel plated didn't suit me well either.
Just not super quiet, and a bit sensitive to der adjustment.
So now I am experiencing some minor buyer's remorse - I had to replace
a cassette that just didn't want to work well with the chain (but
worked fine with the Wipperman), the Superlink clicks (why didn't I
listen to Mr. Chisholm when he wrote that?) but, weirdly, doesn't
click under load, but rather just when spinning. And I now have to
track mileage to be sure not to overwear the chain/cassette and render
it useless with the Campy chain.
So on to the questions (Peter?):
1. Do you go by mileage or by stretch with the chain and if by
stretch, what is your criteria?
2. The standard Campy Wipperman connector is a bit wide, has anyone
used the Shimano Wipperman connector with the narrow chain?
3. Has anyone tried the Wipperman Shimano chain (narrower) with a
Campy drivetrain?
4. Should I buy that GD $90 Campy chain tool and be done with the
removeable links? I already clean my chain on the bike with Prolink
and only remove it every 300 miles or so to give it a good bath.
Andy Muzi, perhaps you'll chime in here? Pete Biggs, Russell, you're
Campy men....
Just want to settle on a system that is gonna work for me for four or
five years (and the consumables to be available).
Thanks!
D'ohBoy
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Date: 09 Jun 2007 05:23:04
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Questions RE: New Narrow Campy Chain
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On Jun 8, 7:50 am, D'ohBoy <peteng...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> And the last last question:
>
> You say least expensive 'compatible chain/cogs' - does that mean that
> using a Veloce chain with, say, chorus cogs is a no-no?
>
> Is there some incompatibility there?
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Peter
Not a non-no at all..all are cross compatible but when time to replace
these consumables, look for the least expensive compatible item..we
sell lots of Veloce cogs and chains...have a few Record/Chorus/Centaur
but mention when ya spend more $, you get no better performance, just
a little weight savings, teeny, not worth the $, IMO.
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Date: 09 Jun 2007 11:06:23
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Questions RE: New Narrow Campy Chain
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> D'ohBoy <peteng...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> And the last last question:
>> You say least expensive 'compatible chain/cogs' - does that mean that
>> using a Veloce chain with, say, chorus cogs is a no-no?
>> Is there some incompatibility there?
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> Not a non-no at all..all are cross compatible but when time to replace
> these consumables, look for the least expensive compatible item..we
> sell lots of Veloce cogs and chains...have a few Record/Chorus/Centaur
> but mention when ya spend more $, you get no better performance, just
> a little weight savings, teeny, not worth the $, IMO.
Absolutely agree.
We build new bikes all with CrMo changeable cog cassettes.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 09 Jun 2007 05:21:05
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Questions RE: New Narrow Campy Chain
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On Jun 8, 7:33 am, D'ohBoy <peteng...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> <snip Qui si parla Campagnolo 's sage replies>
>
> One last question, Peter:
>
> Okay, I am fine with the veloce chain's extra 40 gms (if that) and
> certainly happy about the relative cost IFF it shifts as well and is
> as quiet as the Record.
>
> Does it shift as well and is it as quiet as the Record?
>
> Thanks!
>
> D'ohBoy
They took the side plates and made holes in them to get the Chorus
chain, then made the pins hollow to get the Record chain...all started
with the same plate dimensions. and up the line in the name of weight
savings and much more $. Shifts the same, wears the same.
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Date: 08 Jun 2007 07:23:56
From: russellseaton1@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Questions RE: New Narrow Campy Chain
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On Jun 7, 6:59 pm, D'ohBoy <peteng...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Like many people, I did not do a great deal of investigation prior to
> purchasing that new whizbang bike component (Buzzkill bar plugs
> anyone?) but I did learn the following about the new Campy narrow
> chain prior to dropping $45 + cost of removeable link for the Record
> Narrow chain:
>
> - Campy says they should be replaced every 1000 - 1500 miles
> - Others say they are hypersensitive to cassette wear (and how!)
>
> So I bought two with the Superlink anyway. Superlink added $14
> (each!) to the cost. But the other things they said were true too:
>
> - shifts mighty fine
> - quiet as a mouse
>
> Not that my old Wipperman nickel plated didn't suit me well either.
> Just not super quiet, and a bit sensitive to der adjustment.
>
> So now I am experiencing some minor buyer's remorse - I had to replace
> a cassette that just didn't want to work well with the chain (but
> worked fine with the Wipperman), the Superlink clicks (why didn't I
> listen to Mr. Chisholm when he wrote that?) but, weirdly, doesn't
> click under load, but rather just when spinning. And I now have to
> track mileage to be sure not to overwear the chain/cassette and render
> it useless with the Campy chain.
>
> So on to the questions (Peter?):
>
> 1. Do you go by mileage or by stretch with the chain and if by
> stretch, what is your criteria?
I don't have a chain checker and don't plan to buy one. A cheap chain
checker is a new chain hung on a nail. Put the old one against it and
see if its longer. Actual stretch would be the correct method over
mileage since under what conditions you ride affect chain wear as much
or more than mileage. 5,000 San Diego summer miles on dry pavement
may cause less chain wear than 1,000 New York City winter miles with
the salt, sand, grime, water, slush, etc. on the road.
> 2. The standard Campy Wipperman connector is a bit wide, has anyone
> used the Shimano Wipperman connector with the narrow chain?
Old standard 10 speed Wippermann connector was 6.45mm or so wide. New
narrow Shimano Wippermann connector is 6.05mm wide. I use the wide
6.45mm Wippermann connector on my Veloce 10 speed chain, 5.9mm width.
And its replacement, a Shimano 105 10 speed 5.9mm chain. Same
Wippermann connector, did not buy a new one. Seems to keep on working
just fine. I had probably a couple thousand miles on the Veloce 10
speed 12-23 cassette and Veloce 10 speed chain before putting on the
new Shimano 105 10 speed chain a couple weeks ago. Resued the same
Wippermann 6.45mm connector. Have ridden a 400k and 1000k brevet with
the new chain on the old cassette since then. Seems to work fine. No
skipping. Although I do think the Campagnolo chain shifted quicker.
Maybe my imagination but I will likely buy a Veloce chain for the next
replacement.
> 3. Has anyone tried the Wipperman Shimano chain (narrower) with a
> Campy drivetrain?
Yes. Shimano 105 10 speed 5.9mm chain and older wider 6.45mm
Wippermann connector. Works fine.
> 4. Should I buy that GD $90 Campy chain tool and be done with the
> removeable links? I already clean my chain on the bike with Prolink
> and only remove it every 300 miles or so to give it a good bath.
I like the quick connectors on chains. I use SRAM Powerlink on the 9
speed chains and the Wippermann on the 10 speed. Both work well
enough. Although with the Wippermann you do have to turn it the right
side against the cassette. Peter said the shallow curve of the
Wippermann link goes against the cassette. Seems to work. I'll buy
whichever quick connector is cheapest.
I use Veloce cassettes on the 10 speed bike because they are
cheapest. And until this year they were the lowest 10 speed cassettes
Campagnolo made. Maybe Mirage now has a 10 speed cassette that is
even cheaper since its 10 speed this year. I use Mirage or Veloce
cassettes on my 9 speed bike because they are the cheapest. I use the
cheapest chains I can find in the right speed configuration.
I think you should easily get far more than 1000-1500 miles out of a
10 speed chain. I do. Figure double that mileage at least. And the
new chain won't skip on the old cassette. I clean my chain and bike
after riding in the rain. And clena the chain and bike every month or
so when it gets grimy. Chain cleaning for me involves taking the
chain off and letting it soak a day or two in purple degreaser. Then
scrubbing it with a brush. I use Prolink lube, if that makes any
difference, I doubt it. It does seem to keep the chain quiet and last
much longer than the Pedros Icewax I was using.
>
> Andy Muzi, perhaps you'll chime in here? Pete Biggs, Russell, you're
> Campy men....
>
> Just want to settle on a system that is gonna work for me for four or
> five years (and the consumables to be available).
>
> Thanks!
>
> D'ohBoy
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Date: 08 Jun 2007 06:50:26
From: D'ohBoy
Subject: Re: Questions RE: New Narrow Campy Chain
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And the last last question:
You say least expensive 'compatible chain/cogs' - does that mean that
using a Veloce chain with, say, chorus cogs is a no-no?
Is there some incompatibility there?
Thanks again!
Peter
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Date: 08 Jun 2007 06:33:18
From: D'ohBoy
Subject: Re: Questions RE: New Narrow Campy Chain
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<snip Qui si parla Campagnolo 's sage replies >
One last question, Peter:
Okay, I am fine with the veloce chain's extra 40 gms (if that) and
certainly happy about the relative cost IFF it shifts as well and is
as quiet as the Record.
Does it shift as well and is it as quiet as the Record?
Thanks!
D'ohBoy
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Date: 08 Jun 2007 05:43:08
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Questions RE: New Narrow Campy Chain
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On Jun 7, 11:35 pm, richard <richard...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jun 8, 12:59 am, D'ohBoy <peteng...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > Like many people, I did not do a great deal of investigation prior to
> > purchasing that new whizbang bike component (Buzzkill bar plugs
> > anyone?) but I did learn the following about the new Campy narrow
> > chain prior to dropping $45 + cost of removeable link for the Record
> > Narrow chain:
>
> > - Campy says they should be replaced every 1000 - 1500 miles
> > - Others say they are hypersensitive to cassette wear (and how!)
>
> > So I bought two with the Superlink anyway. Superlink added $14
> > (each!) to the cost. But the other things they said were true too:
>
> > - shifts mighty fine
> > - quiet as a mouse
>
> > Not that my old Wipperman nickel plated didn't suit me well either.
> > Just not super quiet, and a bit sensitive to der adjustment.
>
> > So now I am experiencing some minor buyer's remorse - I had to replace
> > a cassette that just didn't want to work well with the chain (but
> > worked fine with the Wipperman), the Superlink clicks (why didn't I
> > listen to Mr. Chisholm when he wrote that?) but, weirdly, doesn't
> > click under load, but rather just when spinning. And I now have to
> > track mileage to be sure not to overwear the chain/cassette and render
> > it useless with the Campy chain.
>
> > So on to the questions (Peter?):
>
> > 1. Do you go by mileage or by stretch with the chain and if by
> > stretch, what is your criteria?
> > 2. The standard Campy Wipperman connector is a bit wide, has anyone
> > used the Shimano Wipperman connector with the narrow chain?
> > 3. Has anyone tried the Wipperman Shimano chain (narrower) with a
> > Campy drivetrain?
> > 4. Should I buy that GD $90 Campy chain tool and be done with the
> > removeable links? I already clean my chain on the bike with Prolink
> > and only remove it every 300 miles or so to give it a good bath.
>
> > Andy Muzi, perhaps you'll chime in here? Pete Biggs, Russell, you're
> > Campy men....
>
> > Just want to settle on a system that is gonna work for me for four or
> > five years (and the consumables to be available).
>
> > Thanks!
>
> > D'ohBoy
>
> Can't answer all of these, but here's what I learnt the hard way:
>
> * I replace my chains when they have 1% stretch.
> * I use the Park chain stretch measurement tool
Hope it's the CC-3..the others show a new chain as worn out.
> * It is possible to fit the latest 2007 Campag chain using a good
> normal extraction/insertion tool, but Campag would rather you purchase
> their special tool to do this.
Yep...
> * Once fitted, Campag recoemmend NEVER removing the chain (until it's
> worn out), that means cleaning the chain on the bike.
Poppycock of course...
> * If you do remove a Campag chain, Campag recommend you purchase a
> replacement link set in order to re-fit the chain
Times 2...just use the Wipperman link..works great, never seen one
fail.
>
> RESULT: I always use KMC chains now (with my Campag Chorus 2007
> groupset).
Many nice chains out there but the KMC doesn't have a quick link, I
think...
>
> R.http://lbrc.org
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Date: 08 Jun 2007 05:41:03
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Questions RE: New Narrow Campy Chain
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On Jun 7, 5:59 pm, D'ohBoy <peteng...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Like many people, I did not do a great deal of investigation prior to
> purchasing that new whizbang bike component (Buzzkill bar plugs
> anyone?) but I did learn the following about the new Campy narrow
> chain prior to dropping $45 + cost of removeable link for the Record
> Narrow chain:
>
> - Campy says they should be replaced every 1000 - 1500 miles
> - Others say they are hypersensitive to cassette wear (and how!)
>
> So I bought two with the Superlink anyway. Superlink added $14
> (each!) to the cost. But the other things they said were true too:
>
> - shifts mighty fine
> - quiet as a mouse
>
> Not that my old Wipperman nickel plated didn't suit me well either.
> Just not super quiet, and a bit sensitive to der adjustment.
>
> So now I am experiencing some minor buyer's remorse - I had to replace
> a cassette that just didn't want to work well with the chain (but
> worked fine with the Wipperman), the Superlink clicks (why didn't I
> listen to Mr. Chisholm when he wrote that?) but, weirdly, doesn't
> click under load, but rather just when spinning. And I now have to
> track mileage to be sure not to overwear the chain/cassette and render
> it useless with the Campy chain.
>
> So on to the questions (Peter?):
>
> 1. Do you go by mileage or by stretch with the chain and if by
> stretch, what is your criteria?
We use a Rohloff chain checker, never by milage. The 'Ultra' chains
don't wear any faster than the 6.2 chain did nor any faster than Sram
or Campag 9s chains.
> 2. The standard Campy Wipperman connector is a bit wide, has anyone
> used the Shimano Wipperman connector with the narrow chain?
What we do all the time, use the 'shimano' 6.05 Wipperman connector
with the 5.9mm chain.
> 3. Has anyone tried the Wipperman Shimano chain (narrower) with a
> Campy drivetrain?
Yep, this along with the Sram 5.9 all work fine.
> 4. Should I buy that GD $90 Campy chain tool and be done with the
> removeable links? I already clean my chain on the bike with Prolink
> and only remove it every 300 miles or so to give it a good bath.
Nope get the link...$8 here in the republic, BTW-
>
> Andy Muzi, perhaps you'll chime in here? Pete Biggs, Russell, you're
> Campy men....
>
> Just want to settle on a system that is gonna work for me for four or
> five years (and the consumables to be available).
Remember least expensive compatible chain and cogset..Veloce chain and
cogs...no need for hyper expensive chains and cogs(like Record/DA).
>
> Thanks!
>
> D'ohBoy
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Date: 07 Jun 2007 22:35:16
From: richard
Subject: Re: Questions RE: New Narrow Campy Chain
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On Jun 8, 12:59 am, D'ohBoy <peteng...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Like many people, I did not do a great deal of investigation prior to
> purchasing that new whizbang bike component (Buzzkill bar plugs
> anyone?) but I did learn the following about the new Campy narrow
> chain prior to dropping $45 + cost of removeable link for the Record
> Narrow chain:
>
> - Campy says they should be replaced every 1000 - 1500 miles
> - Others say they are hypersensitive to cassette wear (and how!)
>
> So I bought two with the Superlink anyway. Superlink added $14
> (each!) to the cost. But the other things they said were true too:
>
> - shifts mighty fine
> - quiet as a mouse
>
> Not that my old Wipperman nickel plated didn't suit me well either.
> Just not super quiet, and a bit sensitive to der adjustment.
>
> So now I am experiencing some minor buyer's remorse - I had to replace
> a cassette that just didn't want to work well with the chain (but
> worked fine with the Wipperman), the Superlink clicks (why didn't I
> listen to Mr. Chisholm when he wrote that?) but, weirdly, doesn't
> click under load, but rather just when spinning. And I now have to
> track mileage to be sure not to overwear the chain/cassette and render
> it useless with the Campy chain.
>
> So on to the questions (Peter?):
>
> 1. Do you go by mileage or by stretch with the chain and if by
> stretch, what is your criteria?
> 2. The standard Campy Wipperman connector is a bit wide, has anyone
> used the Shimano Wipperman connector with the narrow chain?
> 3. Has anyone tried the Wipperman Shimano chain (narrower) with a
> Campy drivetrain?
> 4. Should I buy that GD $90 Campy chain tool and be done with the
> removeable links? I already clean my chain on the bike with Prolink
> and only remove it every 300 miles or so to give it a good bath.
>
> Andy Muzi, perhaps you'll chime in here? Pete Biggs, Russell, you're
> Campy men....
>
> Just want to settle on a system that is gonna work for me for four or
> five years (and the consumables to be available).
>
> Thanks!
>
> D'ohBoy
Can't answer all of these, but here's what I learnt the hard way:
* I replace my chains when they have 1% stretch.
* I use the Park chain stretch measurement tool
* It is possible to fit the latest 2007 Campag chain using a good
normal extraction/insertion tool, but Campag would rather you purchase
their special tool to do this.
* Once fitted, Campag recoemmend NEVER removing the chain (until it's
worn out), that means cleaning the chain on the bike.
* If you do remove a Campag chain, Campag recommend you purchase a
replacement link set in order to re-fit the chain
RESULT: I always use KMC chains now (with my Campag Chorus 2007
groupset).
R.
http://lbrc.org
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