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Main
Date: 25 Jul 2007 14:58:14
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Rasmussen fired?
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Just heard this on NPR News: Rasmussen fired from his team and is out
of the TdF.
Incredible!
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 15:38:13
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Rasmussen fired?
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On Jul 26, 5:26 pm, Rick <CyclistR...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 25, 5:41 pm, Morten Reippuert Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk> wrote:
>
> > landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Jul 25, 4:58 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > Rasmussen got warnings for missing out-of-competition-tests and falty
> > whereabouts, but noth enough warnings to charge him.
>
> Well, technically true, but not really. He missed four, three and
> your out. But .... he missed two from the UCI and two from the local
> cycling union, so he split his misses between two agencies. It is a
> loophole; you cannot miss three from any one agency at the moment, but
> if you miss three and they are from different agencies then you do not
> get nicked. The loophole will now be closed, you can be sure.
>
> > He is not charged
> > or under suspicion for doping.
>
> Charged, no. But there is a lot of suspicion. Why did he not give
> his whereabouts to the UCI and DCU? Why did he say he was out of
> contact in Mexico when he was in Italy? Creates a lot of suspicion.
>
> > > but Ladis's testosterone results still baffle me.
>
> Why? That it has not been resolved? Perhaps that is because the
> arbitrators are having a hard time coming to grips with it all. The
> are pressured to rule against him, then they are faced with two
> fundamental facts: 1) the test used is highly suspect under the best
> of conditions, and 2) the lab work is so sloppy that it would be
> kicked out of any 6th grade science fair; they violated chains of
> custody, violated testing protocols, did not know how to operate the
> equipment, did a cut and paste job of several tests for the final
> 'result', and never saved any single result from any one test run.
> Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. So the arbitrators have pressure to rule
> against but do not want to condone such poor work by the labs. That
> lab needs to be de-certified, IMO.
>
> By the way, Peter may get his wish. Lots of teams are looking for
> sponsors, and no one is biting. Discovery, Credit Agricole, and
> Slipstream have not come up with headline sponsors for next year. T-
> Mobile will announce there decision for next year and I bet they will
> pull out. Rabobank is a question mark, Astana may pull back, Skoda,
> and Adidas are looking like they will be gone. These guys are killing
> the golden goose.
>
Has anyone contacted Molteni? ;-)
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 22:26:56
From: Rick
Subject: Re: Rasmussen fired?
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On Jul 25, 5:41 pm, Morten Reippuert Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk > wrote:
> landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 25, 4:58 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> Rasmussen got warnings for missing out-of-competition-tests and falty
> whereabouts, but noth enough warnings to charge him.
Well, technically true, but not really. He missed four, three and
your out. But .... he missed two from the UCI and two from the local
cycling union, so he split his misses between two agencies. It is a
loophole; you cannot miss three from any one agency at the moment, but
if you miss three and they are from different agencies then you do not
get nicked. The loophole will now be closed, you can be sure.
> He is not charged
> or under suspicion for doping.
Charged, no. But there is a lot of suspicion. Why did he not give
his whereabouts to the UCI and DCU? Why did he say he was out of
contact in Mexico when he was in Italy? Creates a lot of suspicion.
> > but Ladis's testosterone results still baffle me.
Why? That it has not been resolved? Perhaps that is because the
arbitrators are having a hard time coming to grips with it all. The
are pressured to rule against him, then they are faced with two
fundamental facts: 1) the test used is highly suspect under the best
of conditions, and 2) the lab work is so sloppy that it would be
kicked out of any 6th grade science fair; they violated chains of
custody, violated testing protocols, did not know how to operate the
equipment, did a cut and paste job of several tests for the final
'result', and never saved any single result from any one test run.
Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. So the arbitrators have pressure to rule
against but do not want to condone such poor work by the labs. That
lab needs to be de-certified, IMO.
By the way, Peter may get his wish. Lots of teams are looking for
sponsors, and no one is biting. Discovery, Credit Agricole, and
Slipstream have not come up with headline sponsors for next year. T-
Mobile will announce there decision for next year and I bet they will
pull out. Rabobank is a question mark, Astana may pull back, Skoda,
and Adidas are looking like they will be gone. These guys are killing
the golden goose.
- rick
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 17:05:33
From: Victor Kan
Subject: Re: Rasmussen fired?
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On Jul 26, 8:39 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <pe...@vecchios.com >
wrote:
> .. Ya think the clean ones don't know about the
> dirty ones?? This BS code of silence and resulting black listing if a
> clean rider crys foul is as much to blame as the stinking cheaters.
While I agree that the code of silence and such blacklisting is a part
of the problem, what clean riders have cried foul and been
blacklisted?
I recall a number of formerly(?) dirty riders/helpers coming clean
after the fact, some of them crying foul against others, some of them
not having (or wanting to have) anything to say about others, and read
stories of clean riders not wanting to give in to the doping scene to
compete and leaving the sport for greener, or at least cleaner,
pastures. Or is their leaving the sport the blacklisting, even if
voluntary?
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Date: 28 Jul 2007 03:43:59
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: Rasmussen fired?
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Victor Kan <victor.kan@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 26, 8:39 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <pe...@vecchios.com>
> wrote:
> > .. Ya think the clean ones don't know about the
> > dirty ones?? This BS code of silence and resulting black listing if a
> > clean rider crys foul is as much to blame as the stinking cheaters.
> While I agree that the code of silence and such blacklisting is a part
> of the problem, what clean riders have cried foul and been
> blacklisted?
Fillipo Simioni.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 12:56:57
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Rasmussen fired?
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In article <1185469533.827086.292930@l70g2000hse.googlegroups.com >,
Victor Kan <victor.kan@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 26, 8:39 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <pe...@vecchios.com>
> wrote:
> > .. Ya think the clean ones don't know about the dirty ones?? This
> > BS code of silence and resulting black listing if a clean rider
> > crys foul is as much to blame as the stinking cheaters.
>
> While I agree that the code of silence and such blacklisting is a
> part of the problem, what clean riders have cried foul and been
> blacklisted?
A number of pro riders- some claiming to be clean and some admitting to
be dopers- that have subsequently left the sport have reported
significant pressure to dope coming from teammates and employers-
basically "if you're not going to 'prepare' for races, you're not
sufficiently dedicated." If they didn't dope, they were left out of
important races, given restricted or menial roles, didn't have their
contracts renewed, etc.
The Achilles' heel of the "doping fight" is that it targets only riders
and doctors, and allows the team owners and directeurs to pretend to be
above it all. These were people up to their eyeballs in the doping
situation, and as long as they are permitted to remain in the sport then
doping will continue. There needs to be a clean sweep of all of them.
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 20:42:25
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: Rasmussen fired?
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Tim McNamara wrote:
>
> A number of pro riders- some claiming to be clean and some admitting to
> be dopers- that have subsequently left the sport have reported
> significant pressure to dope coming from teammates and employers-
> basically "if you're not going to 'prepare' for races, you're not
> sufficiently dedicated." If they didn't dope, they were left out of
> important races, given restricted or menial roles, didn't have their
> contracts renewed, etc.
And this is totally ignored by the media and fans.
>
> The Achilles' heel of the "doping fight" is that it targets only riders
> and doctors, and allows the team owners and directeurs to pretend to be
> above it all. These were people up to their eyeballs in the doping
> situation, and as long as they are permitted to remain in the sport then
> doping will continue. There needs to be a clean sweep of all of them.
Absolutely! It's ridiculous to assume that the teams know nothing about
the riders' doping. They buy the stuff for them. They tell them to
take it. It's about time that this part of the dirty little secret came
out.
--
David L. Johnson
It doesn't get any easier, you just go faster.
--Greg LeMond
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 12:39:25
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Rasmussen fired?
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On Jul 25, 7:31 pm, Smokey <smokeystrodt...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 25, 8:12 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetrem...@jt10000.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:41:15 +0200, Morten Reippuert
>
> > Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk> wrote:
> > >Rasmussen got warnings for missing out-of-competition-tests and falty
> > >whereabouts, but noth enough warnings to charge him. He is not charged
> > >or under suspicion for doping.
>
> > He may not legally be under suspicion for doping, but many people
> > think he was doping.
> > --
> > JT
> > ****************************
> > Remove "remove" to reply
> > Visithttp://www.jt10000.com
> > ****************************
>
> Yeah, if anybody suspects anyone is doping, they should immediately be
> kicked out of the Tour. Fuck due process.
>
> Smokey
Yep, most are clean and great guys..give them the benefit of the
doubt, let them race..c'MON!!! if it talks like a duck, walks like a
duck, it's a frigging DUCK..these knuckleheads know the rules but they
continue to ignore them. I say have all the sponsors leave and put all
these guys outta work. Ya think the clean ones don't know about the
dirty ones?? This BS code of silence and resulting black listing if a
clean rider crys foul is as much to blame as the stinking cheaters.
I say screw them all, let pro cycling die.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 12:10:25
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: Rasmussen fired?
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On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:39:25 -0000, Qui si parla Campagnolo <peter@vecchios.com >
wrote:
>On Jul 25, 7:31 pm, Smokey <smokeystrodt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 25, 8:12 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetrem...@jt10000.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:41:15 +0200, Morten Reippuert
>>
>> > Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk> wrote:
>> > >Rasmussen got warnings for missing out-of-competition-tests and falty
>> > >whereabouts, but noth enough warnings to charge him. He is not charged
>> > >or under suspicion for doping.
>>
>> > He may not legally be under suspicion for doping, but many people
>> > think he was doping.
>> > --
>> > JT
>> > ****************************
>> > Remove "remove" to reply
>> > Visithttp://www.jt10000.com
>> > ****************************
>>
>> Yeah, if anybody suspects anyone is doping, they should immediately be
>> kicked out of the Tour. Fuck due process.
>>
>> Smokey
>
>Yep, most are clean and great guys..give them the benefit of the
>doubt, let them race..c'MON!!! if it talks like a duck, walks like a
>duck, it's a frigging DUCK..these knuckleheads know the rules but they
>continue to ignore them. I say have all the sponsors leave and put all
>these guys outta work. Ya think the clean ones don't know about the
>dirty ones?? This BS code of silence and resulting black listing if a
>clean rider crys foul is as much to blame as the stinking cheaters.
>
>I say screw them all, let pro cycling die.
I'm sure it isn't the next phase, but the phase after that is bemusement.
Ron
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 04:51:57
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Rasmussen fired?
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On Jul 26, 12:23 am, Michael Warner <m...@westnet.com.au > wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:06:35 -0700, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > Now this.....blech. No clearcut, legit winner for the second year in a
> > row. The Tour is commiting suicide.
>
> Rubbish. It may not be entirely fair to them, but having riders under a
> cloud summarily kicked out rather than finishing (or worse, winning)
> and then fighting to retain their result is the best thing that's happened
> to the event in years.
I meant "the Tour" as a whole, riders, organizers, sponsors, etc. Not
just the organization.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 21:45:57
From: Michael Warner
Subject: Re: Rasmussen fired?
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On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 04:51:57 -0700, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> I meant "the Tour" as a whole, riders, organizers, sponsors, etc. Not
> just the organization.
Well, IMHO "The Tour", whatever you want to mean by that, has done
the painful but necessary things needed to survive. It's bigger than its
stars, and even bigger than any individual team.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 17:38:57
From: still me
Subject: Re: Rasmussen fired?
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On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 21:45:57 +0930, Michael Warner
<mvw@westnet.com.au > wrote:
>
>Well, IMHO "The Tour", whatever you want to mean by that, has done
>the painful but necessary things needed to survive. It's bigger than its
>stars, and even bigger than any individual team.
Yawn. "The Tour" has only taken on any meaning in the USA beyond
people who bike as a result of Lance winning *and* simultaneously
being a cancer survivor. Other than that, it would still be almost
unknown. In fact, the drug controversies have probably done more good
for the Tour than bad, as the publicity has made the public aware that
it's "important" enough for people to scheme and cheat to win.
But, ask the average joe on the street any question about the Tour
other than "where is it run" and you will get a blank stare. The only
reason he can answer the "where" question would be from the name.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 03:39:56
From: bdbafh
Subject: Re: Rasmussen fired?
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On Jul 25, 8:41 pm, Morten Reippuert Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk > wrote:
> landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 25, 4:58 pm, Ozark Bicycle
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > Just heard this on NPR News: Rasmussen fired from his team and is out
> > > of the TdF.
> > Ugh. I swore off this year's race. Didn't watch a second till last
> > week when it was on at the LBS and I got to see the big crash. So I
> > started watching in bits and pieces again--enjoying it, then another
> > sucker punch.
> > And to think that the Landis saga isn't over yet. Oy. Why do these
> > riders think that they can get away with it when there's testing, or
> > are they trying to do it in an undetectable manner? A transfusion,
> > like Rasmussen allegedly got makes performance sense,
>
> Vinokurov got at transfusion durring TDF.
>
> Rasmussen got warnings for missing out-of-competition-tests and falty
> whereabouts, but noth enough warnings to charge him. He is not charged
> or under suspicion for doping. He has been fired for lieing to his
> employer about his whereabout. He can still race under UCI.
>
> Sinkewich was caught with testosterone in an out-of-competition-test.
>
> Moreni was caught with testosterone durring TDF.
"Moreni was caught with testosterone durring TDF. "
Dude, even if you only had one nut, you'd still have testosterone in
your system.
Spend a little more time with the Inglish speel chekker next time.
-bdbafh
>
> > but Ladis's testosterone results still baffle me.
>
> Testosterone do bennefit riders recovery time, wich is usefull in long
> races like a 3 week stagerace and durring training.
>
> --
> Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>
>
> Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
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Date: 25 Jul 2007 18:31:31
From: Smokey
Subject: Re: Rasmussen fired?
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On Jul 25, 8:12 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetrem...@jt10000.com >
wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:41:15 +0200, Morten Reippuert
>
> Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk> wrote:
> >Rasmussen got warnings for missing out-of-competition-tests and falty
> >whereabouts, but noth enough warnings to charge him. He is not charged
> >or under suspicion for doping.
>
> He may not legally be under suspicion for doping, but many people
> think he was doping.
> --
> JT
> ****************************
> Remove "remove" to reply
> Visithttp://www.jt10000.com
> ****************************
Yeah, if anybody suspects anyone is doping, they should immediately be
kicked out of the Tour. Fuck due process.
Smokey
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Date: 25 Jul 2007 21:38:06
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Rasmussen fired?
|
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:31:31 -0700, Smokey
<smokeystrodtman@hotmail.com > wrote:
>Yeah, if anybody suspects anyone is doping, they should immediately be
>kicked out of the Tour. Fuck due process.
Who kicked Rasmussen out? Did doing so violate any agreements he'd
made? Can you lie to your employer and keep your job?
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 17:35:23
From: still me
Subject: Re: Rasmussen fired?
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On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 21:38:06 -0400, John Forrest Tomlinson
<usenetremove@jt10000.com > wrote:
> Can you lie to your employer and keep your job?
Yes, but I'm self employed.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 01:16:57
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Rasmussen fired?
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On Jul 25, 8:12 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetrem...@jt10000.com >
wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:41:15 +0200, Morten Reippuert
>
> Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk> wrote:
> >Rasmussen got warnings for missing out-of-competition-tests and falty
> >whereabouts, but noth enough warnings to charge him. He is not charged
> >or under suspicion for doping.
>
> He may not legally be under suspicion for doping, but many people
> think he was doping.
Heh, got him mixed up with Vinokurov, as the radio was in a different
room. Still--his lying about going to Italy just stinks of guilt.
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Date: 25 Jul 2007 18:06:35
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Rasmussen fired?
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On Jul 25, 6:07 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 25, 4:58 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > Just heard this on NPR News: Rasmussen fired from his team and is out
> > of the TdF.
>
> Ugh. I swore off this year's race. Didn't watch a second till last
> week when it was on at the LBS and I got to see the big crash. So I
> started watching in bits and pieces again--enjoying it, then another
> sucker punch.
I regained interest, despite my instincts to the contrary. There was
something interesting about Rasmussen, pretty much a pure climber,
winning in the mountains and being able to gut it out and hang on
through the TTs and win.
Now this.....blech. No clearcut, legit winner for the second year in a
row. The Tour is commiting suicide.
>
> And to think that the Landis saga isn't over yet. Oy. Why do these
> riders think that they can get away with it when there's testing, or
> are they trying to do it in an undetectable manner? A transfusion,
> like Rasmussen allegedly got makes performance sense, but Ladis's
> testosterone results still baffle me.
>
> I wish there was a minor League TDF I could enjoy instead. I'll just
> have to settle for baseball and catfish on Friday night at Greer
> stadium.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 14:53:11
From: Michael Warner
Subject: Re: Rasmussen fired?
|
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:06:35 -0700, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> Now this.....blech. No clearcut, legit winner for the second year in a
> row. The Tour is commiting suicide.
Rubbish. It may not be entirely fair to them, but having riders under a
cloud summarily kicked out rather than finishing (or worse, winning)
and then fighting to retain their result is the best thing that's happened
to the event in years.
|
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Date: 25 Jul 2007 23:07:55
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Rasmussen fired?
|
On Jul 25, 4:58 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> Just heard this on NPR News: Rasmussen fired from his team and is out
> of the TdF.
Ugh. I swore off this year's race. Didn't watch a second till last
week when it was on at the LBS and I got to see the big crash. So I
started watching in bits and pieces again--enjoying it, then another
sucker punch.
And to think that the Landis saga isn't over yet. Oy. Why do these
riders think that they can get away with it when there's testing, or
are they trying to do it in an undetectable manner? A transfusion,
like Rasmussen allegedly got makes performance sense, but Ladis's
testosterone results still baffle me.
I wish there was a minor League TDF I could enjoy instead. I'll just
have to settle for baseball and catfish on Friday night at Greer
stadium.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 02:41:15
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: Rasmussen fired?
|
landotter <landotter@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 25, 4:58 pm, Ozark Bicycle
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > Just heard this on NPR News: Rasmussen fired from his team and is out
> > of the TdF.
> Ugh. I swore off this year's race. Didn't watch a second till last
> week when it was on at the LBS and I got to see the big crash. So I
> started watching in bits and pieces again--enjoying it, then another
> sucker punch.
> And to think that the Landis saga isn't over yet. Oy. Why do these
> riders think that they can get away with it when there's testing, or
> are they trying to do it in an undetectable manner? A transfusion,
> like Rasmussen allegedly got makes performance sense,
Vinokurov got at transfusion durring TDF.
Rasmussen got warnings for missing out-of-competition-tests and falty
whereabouts, but noth enough warnings to charge him. He is not charged
or under suspicion for doping. He has been fired for lieing to his
employer about his whereabout. He can still race under UCI.
Sinkewich was caught with testosterone in an out-of-competition-test.
Moreni was caught with testosterone durring TDF.
> but Ladis's testosterone results still baffle me.
Testosterone do bennefit riders recovery time, wich is usefull in long
races like a 3 week stagerace and durring training.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
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Date: 25 Jul 2007 21:12:26
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Rasmussen fired?
|
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:41:15 +0200, Morten Reippuert
Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk > wrote:
>Rasmussen got warnings for missing out-of-competition-tests and falty
>whereabouts, but noth enough warnings to charge him. He is not charged
>or under suspicion for doping.
He may not legally be under suspicion for doping, but many people
think he was doping.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
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Date: 25 Jul 2007 15:44:16
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: Rasmussen fired?
|
On Jul 25, 2:58 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> Just heard this on NPR News: Rasmussen fired from his team and is out
> of the TdF.
>
> Incredible!
It's all over Yahoo now. Unbelievable. -- Jay Beattie.
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