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Main
Date: 19 Jun 2007 12:08:11
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: Yikes
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"Tom Nakashima" <tom@slac.stanford.edu > wrote in message news:...
>
> <carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:5o7g73lnp65gtb4hu3n1lnapgg7c9egie6@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 12:21:05 -0600, carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 12:07:22 -0600, carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 11:34:37 -0600, carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 09:48:32 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
>>>>><tom@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>><carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:am1g73po2o9fd1qgsoja9b3evlnakbd52i@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 06:39:27 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
>>>>>>> <tom@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"still me" <wheeledBob@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:igsd73t4lq8o13eila7g4oqhu0nqmqgnee@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:51:47 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
>>>>>>>>> <tom@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I'll have to say the electronic cyclometer, which was started by
>>>>>>>>>>Avocet
>>>>>>>>>>back in '83.
>>>>>>>>>>-tom
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How crude a device do you attach to the word "cyclometer"? I have
>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>> Avocet that does speed, mph, ride distance and I was sure it was
>>>>>>>>> older
>>>>>>>>> than '83.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It could be you have a prototype from Palo Alto Bicycles?
>>>>>>>>-tom
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Tom,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "AVOCET pioneered bicycle electronics in 1985 with the Cyclometer
>>>>>>> 20."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.avocet.com/cyclopages/cyclo.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Dear
>>>>>>> Carl Fogel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Dear Carl,
>>>>>>Scroll down to 1983
>>>>>>http://www.jimlangley.net/ride/bicyclehistorywh.html
>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>-tom
>>>>>
>>>>>Dear Tom,
>>>>>
>>>>>The disagreement between the 1985 date given by Avocet for when it
>>>>>"pioneered bicycle electronics" with a specific model and the 1983
>>>>>date given in Jim Langley's widely reproduced timeline with no model
>>>>>mentioned is one reason why I take that enjoyable timeline with a
>>>>>grain of nit-picking salt.
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't know which date is right(er), but I tend to believe a specific
>>>>>claim by the manufacturer over a snippet in a wide-ranging survey.
>>>>>
>>>>>That said, the Avocet claim for the model 20 pioneering things in 1985
>>>>>raises the possibility of an earlier model 10 prototype, possibly not
>>>>>commercial, that someone might dig up.
>>>>>
>>>>>And whoever scribbles the Avocet web site details could be the one
>>>>>who's confused, not Jim Langley.
>>>>>
>>>>>This kind of stuff causes the pedantic heart to beat faster, as anyone
>>>>>who's quarreled over the dating of "The Tempest" knows.
>>>>>
>>>>>Bierce cast his usual light on such matters:
>>>>>
>>>>>"GNOME, n. In North-European mythology, a dwarfish imp inhabiting the
>>>>>interior parts of the earth and having special custody of mineral
>>>>>treasures. Bjorsen, who died in 1765, says gnomes were common enough
>>>>>in the southern parts of Sweden in his boyhood, and he frequently saw
>>>>>them scampering on the hills in the evening twilight. Ludwig
>>>>>Binkerhoof saw three as recently as 1792, in the Black Forest, and
>>>>>Sneddeker avers that in 1803 they drove a party of miners out of a
>>>>>Silesian mine. Basing our computations upon data supplied by these
>>>>>statements, we find that the gnomes were probably extinct as early as
>>>>>1764."
>>>>>
>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>>Carl Fogel
>>>>
>>>>Aha! Googling for avocet + cyclocomputer + 1983 doesn't turn up
>>>>anything useful, but avocet + cyclcomputer + 1984 turns up a mention
>>>>of an Avocet C-10 "that came out around 1984":
>>>>
>>>>http://archive.roadbikereview.com/04/0EF1E2CD.php
>>>>
>>>>That thread also includes a claim that electronic stuff was already
>>>>available and that Avocet only made them smaller.
>>>>
>>>>Both claims are off-the-top-of-someone's-head. It's worth noting that
>>>>the thread opens with someone remembering Avocet making cyclocomputers
>>>>"around the '70's."
>>>>
>>>>More searching yields this:
>>>>
>>>>MSS.328/C/12/4/448, 664-678 Historic photographs arranged by subject:
>>>>Technical: Trade Pictures 1984-1988, undated
>>>>
>>>>664 a. Chains
>>>>664 a. Drawing of chain construction.
>>>>665 a-c. Components
>>>>665 a-c. Weinmann components - 2 brake levers and displays.
>>>>666 a-j Computers
>>>>666 a. Peugeot KSC-1. b. Avocet. c. Peugeot KSC-2. d. Cyclotronic. e.
>>>>Heret Multronic and magnet. f. Cateye Solar. g. Cisiomaster. h. ditto
>>>>- fork fitting. i. Catevemate. j. Avocet.
>>>>666 k-n. Computer Sensors
>>>>666 k. Cyclotronic large sensor - multi pole magnet. l. Handlebar
>>>>Ciciomaster. m. Typical standard sensor. n. Avocet.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.warwick.ac.uk/services/library/mrc/ead/328c.htm
>>>>
>>>>This puts Avocet somewhere in 1984-1988, but it could still be
>>>>earlier, particularly since it took a while for stuff to reach England
>>>>from Palo Alto.
>>>>
>>>>But it also raises Peugeot, Cyclotronic, and Multronic and others as
>>>>possible rivals for the earliest cyclocomputer.
>>>>
>>>>Here's a 1984 brochure for the Sachs/Huret Multronic:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/broderir/Catalogs-Posters/Huret/1984/Page+01.jpg.html
>>>>
>>>>So cyclocomputers clearly pre-date the Avocet site claim of pioneering
>>>>things in 1985.
>>>>
>>>>Here's a no-date picture of a Cyclotronic, just because the huge
>>>>magnet ring can be mistaken for a disk brake:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/boeding.htm
>>>>
>>>>The Peugeot eludes me.
>>>>
>>>>With luck, these details may stir some memories and links to old,
>>>>oddball cyclocomputers.
>>>>
>>>>Cheers,
>>>>
>>>>Carl Fogel
>>>
>>>Fumbling with the U.S. Patent office yields a 1977 filing and 1979
>>>patent issue for an electronic bicycle speedometer that cleverly uses
>>>the trigger of the bigger blink of the valve stem interrupting a light
>>>beam:
>>>
>>>http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=4156190.PN.&OS=PN/4156190&RS=PN/4156190
>>>
>>>CF
>>
>> Oh, dear!
>>
>> A very specific and earlier claim from yet a different company:
>>
>> "Oct. 1981 Microcomputer-based cyclocomputer "CAT EYE VELO" was
>> developed and mass production commenced."
>>
>> http://www.jbpi.or.jp/english/JBG/JBG2006-2007/data/018-021.pdf
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Carl Fogel
>
> Report on Enigma decipherment 1 November 1939
> http://www.turing.org.uk/sources/nov39.html
> See #3 Cyclometer.
> Cheers,
> -tom
Taken from a Sears Catalog of 1908:
http://www.stanford.edu/~scamp/mountlowe/archives/Cyclometer.jpg
-tom
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Date: 19 Jun 2007 13:56:56
From:
Subject: Re: Yikes
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On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 12:08:11 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
<tom@slac.stanford.edu > wrote:
[snip]
>> Report on Enigma decipherment 1 November 1939
>> http://www.turing.org.uk/sources/nov39.html
>> See #3 Cyclometer.
>> Cheers,
>> -tom
>
>Taken from a Sears Catalog of 1908:
>http://www.stanford.edu/~scamp/mountlowe/archives/Cyclometer.jpg
>-tom
Dear Tom,
Mechanical odometers go back to the Romans.
Skipping a thousand years or so, here's an InterBike 1897 review of
Haney, Trenton, Waterbury, and Veeder mechanical cyclometers, at the
very end of the pdf:
http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_30/outXXX01/outXXX01w.pdf
Karl Kron's 700+ page "Ten Thousand Miles on a Bicycle" from 1887
offers thousands of cyclometer readings. His interest was shared, as
pathetic queries like this indicate:
"Question 8. Do you know of a perfectly reliable cyclometer?"
--Outing magazine 1883
http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_02/outII03/outII03p.pdf
"Question 15.—Can you recommend the Ritchie cyclometer?"
--Outing magazine 1883
http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_03/outIII01/outIII01t.pdf
Here's an 1894 cyclometer:
http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S=arc/pre1920/1894+Bridgeport+Cyclometer+1%2Ejpg
http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S=arc/pre1920/1894+Bridgeport+Cyclometer+2%2Ejpg
And an 1895:
http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S=arc/pre1920/1895+NY+Standard+cyclometer+2%2Ejpg
http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S=arc/pre1920/1895+NY+Standard+cyclometer%2Ejpg
The 28" refers to the intended wheel size.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
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Date: 19 Jun 2007 13:11:21
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: Yikes
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<carlfogel@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:mpbg731dshpon4jmaf9r5fkv4b2upuoiqa@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 12:08:11 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
> <tom@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>> Report on Enigma decipherment 1 November 1939
>>> http://www.turing.org.uk/sources/nov39.html
>>> See #3 Cyclometer.
>>> Cheers,
>>> -tom
>>
>>Taken from a Sears Catalog of 1908:
>>http://www.stanford.edu/~scamp/mountlowe/archives/Cyclometer.jpg
>>-tom
>
> Dear Tom,
>
> Mechanical odometers go back to the Romans.
>
> Skipping a thousand years or so, here's an InterBike 1897 review of
> Haney, Trenton, Waterbury, and Veeder mechanical cyclometers, at the
> very end of the pdf:
>
> http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_30/outXXX01/outXXX01w.pdf
>
> Karl Kron's 700+ page "Ten Thousand Miles on a Bicycle" from 1887
> offers thousands of cyclometer readings. His interest was shared, as
> pathetic queries like this indicate:
>
> "Question 8. Do you know of a perfectly reliable cyclometer?"
> --Outing magazine 1883
> http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_02/outII03/outII03p.pdf
>
> "Question 15.-Can you recommend the Ritchie cyclometer?"
> --Outing magazine 1883
> http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_03/outIII01/outIII01t.pdf
>
> Here's an 1894 cyclometer:
>
> http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S=arc/pre1920/1894+Bridgeport+Cyclometer+1%2Ejpg
> http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S=arc/pre1920/1894+Bridgeport+Cyclometer+2%2Ejpg
>
> And an 1895:
>
> http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S=arc/pre1920/1895+NY+Standard+cyclometer+2%2Ejpg
> http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S=arc/pre1920/1895+NY+Standard+cyclometer%2Ejpg
>
> The 28" refers to the intended wheel size.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel
Yes, I can picture Ben-Hur reading the cyclometer on his chariot
with sword in hand in a mini skirt...bend over Charlton Heston,
-tom
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Date: 19 Jun 2007 22:16:54
From: still me
Subject: Re: Yikes
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On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:11:21 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
<tom@slac.stanford.edu > wrote:
>
>Yes, I can picture Ben-Hur reading the cyclometer on his chariot
> with sword in hand in a mini skirt...bend over Charlton Heston,
>-tom
>
I just checked the back of mine. It has Patent 4007419 on it, which
refers to a patent from 1977.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=4007419.PN.&OS=PN/4007419&RS=PN/4007419
I called Avocet, but he didn't have any real historical information on
it and could not identify a year any better than we have here.
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Date: 19 Jun 2007 16:48:37
From:
Subject: Re: Yikes
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On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:16:54 GMT, still me <wheeledBob@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:11:21 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
><tom@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
>>
>>Yes, I can picture Ben-Hur reading the cyclometer on his chariot
>> with sword in hand in a mini skirt...bend over Charlton Heston,
>>-tom
>>
>
>I just checked the back of mine. It has Patent 4007419 on it, which
>refers to a patent from 1977.
>
>http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=4007419.PN.&OS=PN/4007419&RS=PN/4007419
>
>I called Avocet, but he didn't have any real historical information on
>it and could not identify a year any better than we have here.
Dear S,
Even Popular Mechanics is a bit uncertain:
"Build a digital bicycle speedometer. LED readouts indicate speed from
1 to 99 miles per hour. Uses magnets mounted on the rim of wheel to
trigger a switch on each revolution."
POPULAR ELECTRONICS [1] Mar 1977 (v.11#3) pg. 39
Correction POPULAR ELECTRONICS [1] Jul 1977 (v.12#1) pg. 7
Correction POPULAR ELECTRONICS [1] Aug 1977 (v.12#2) pg. 6
http://www.nleindex.com/index.php?pID=HTDI&sID=BrowseIndex&tID=E/1544
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
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Date: 19 Jun 2007 16:57:55
From:
Subject: Re: Yikes
|
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 16:48:37 -0600, carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:16:54 GMT, still me <wheeledBob@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:11:21 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
>><tom@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Yes, I can picture Ben-Hur reading the cyclometer on his chariot
>>> with sword in hand in a mini skirt...bend over Charlton Heston,
>>>-tom
>>>
>>
>>I just checked the back of mine. It has Patent 4007419 on it, which
>>refers to a patent from 1977.
>>
>>http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=4007419.PN.&OS=PN/4007419&RS=PN/4007419
>>
>>I called Avocet, but he didn't have any real historical information on
>>it and could not identify a year any better than we have here.
>
>Dear S,
>
>Even Popular Mechanics is a bit uncertain:
>
>"Build a digital bicycle speedometer. LED readouts indicate speed from
>1 to 99 miles per hour. Uses magnets mounted on the rim of wheel to
>trigger a switch on each revolution."
>
>POPULAR ELECTRONICS [1] Mar 1977 (v.11#3) pg. 39
>Correction POPULAR ELECTRONICS [1] Jul 1977 (v.12#1) pg. 7
>Correction POPULAR ELECTRONICS [1] Aug 1977 (v.12#2) pg. 6
>
>http://www.nleindex.com/index.php?pID=HTDI&sID=BrowseIndex&tID=E/1544
>
>Cheers,
>
>Carl Fogel
Aaargh! Horrible mistake!
Popular _Electronics_, not Johnnie-come-lately Popular _Mechanics_,
which came the following year:
"Build an inexpensive 2-digit digital speedometer for your bike.
Measure speeds up to 99 mph. Est. cost: $40."
POPULAR MECHANICS Feb 1978 (v.149#2) pg. 38G
http://www.nleindex.com/index.php?pID=HTDI&sID=BrowseIndex&tID=E/1544
CF
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