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Date: 14 Oct 2007 20:43:14
From: Donald Gillies
Subject: Re: rim recommendations?
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Maybe it's just me, but there's nothing I like better than debating
the merits of one out-of-production bicycle rim (MA-2) vs. another
out-of-production bicycle rim (MA-40). It's even better to try to
take potshots at the depth of anodizing or metallurgical composition
of these out-of-production rims ...
Of course, the metallurgy of these products has long-been established
by books such as "The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brandt. They are made
100% of an alloy called "unobtainium" which increases in strength with
every new edition of that book ... It's a new process called "Hype
Hardening" that Reynolds is looking into for its next set of tubes,
Reynolds 1053.
- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA.
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 15:50:51
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: An assignment for J. Brandt (was: rim recommendations?)
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Just correcting the subject line.
On Oct 15, 5:48 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Oct 15, 1:53 pm, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>
>
>
> > Donald Gillies writes:
> > > Maybe it's just me, but there's nothing I like better than debating
> > > the merits of one out-of-production bicycle rim (MA-2) vs. another
> > > out-of-production bicycle rim (MA-40). It's even better to try to
> > > take potshots at the depth of anodizing or metallurgical composition
> > > of these out-of-production rims ...
> > > Of course, the metallurgy of these products has long-been
> > > established by books such as "The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brandt.
> > > They are made 100% of an alloy called "unobtainium" which increases
> > > in strength with every new edition of that book ... It's a new
> > > process called "Hype Hardening" that Reynolds is looking into for
> > > its next set of tubes, Reynolds 1053.
>
> > I guess it's just you in that you don't offer any evaluation or
> > critique of current rims that seem to have no end to cracking from all
> > the reports here. The rims, no longer made, are a valuable link to
> > reliable rims that subsequently became unreliable, the only apparent
> > change was hard anodizing. I think that has value in understanding
> > rim failure as does the absence of spoke sockets in rims I find
> > available in local bicycle shops.
>
> Here's your assignment, Jobst: build a 130mm 8/9/10sp rear wheel using
> one of your precious, vaunted, MA-2s. Oh, and you cannot use a
> threadlock on the nipples ("glue", as you derisively refer to
> threadlock). Then, ride that rear wheel yourself.
>
> Be sure to get back to us with the results over, say, 1,000 miles.
>
>
>
> > So what's your perception of the rims you prefer?
>
> > Jobst Brandt
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Date: 17 Oct 2007 19:27:52
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: An assignment for J. Brandt
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Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> Just correcting the subject line.
My kingdom for a "t"!
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!
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Date: 17 Oct 2007 20:08:44
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: An assignment for J. Brandt
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Tom Sherman wrote:
> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>> Just correcting the subject line.
>
> My kingdom for a "t"!
OK, I'll bite. Huh?
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 15:48:09
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: An assignment for J. Brand (was:: rim recommendations?)
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On Oct 15, 1:53 pm, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Donald Gillies writes:
> > Maybe it's just me, but there's nothing I like better than debating
> > the merits of one out-of-production bicycle rim (MA-2) vs. another
> > out-of-production bicycle rim (MA-40). It's even better to try to
> > take potshots at the depth of anodizing or metallurgical composition
> > of these out-of-production rims ...
> > Of course, the metallurgy of these products has long-been
> > established by books such as "The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brandt.
> > They are made 100% of an alloy called "unobtainium" which increases
> > in strength with every new edition of that book ... It's a new
> > process called "Hype Hardening" that Reynolds is looking into for
> > its next set of tubes, Reynolds 1053.
>
> I guess it's just you in that you don't offer any evaluation or
> critique of current rims that seem to have no end to cracking from all
> the reports here. The rims, no longer made, are a valuable link to
> reliable rims that subsequently became unreliable, the only apparent
> change was hard anodizing. I think that has value in understanding
> rim failure as does the absence of spoke sockets in rims I find
> available in local bicycle shops.
Here's your assignment, Jobst: build a 130mm 8/9/10sp rear wheel using
one of your precious, vaunted, MA-2s. Oh, and you cannot use a
threadlock on the nipples ("glue", as you derisively refer to
threadlock). Then, ride that rear wheel yourself.
Be sure to get back to us with the results over, say, 1,000 miles.
>
> So what's your perception of the rims you prefer?
>
> Jobst Brandt
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 18:53:06
From:
Subject: Re: rim recommendations?
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Donald Gillies writes:
> Maybe it's just me, but there's nothing I like better than debating
> the merits of one out-of-production bicycle rim (MA-2) vs. another
> out-of-production bicycle rim (MA-40). It's even better to try to
> take potshots at the depth of anodizing or metallurgical composition
> of these out-of-production rims ...
> Of course, the metallurgy of these products has long-been
> established by books such as "The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brandt.
> They are made 100% of an alloy called "unobtainium" which increases
> in strength with every new edition of that book ... It's a new
> process called "Hype Hardening" that Reynolds is looking into for
> its next set of tubes, Reynolds 1053.
I guess it's just you in that you don't offer any evaluation or
critique of current rims that seem to have no end to cracking from all
the reports here. The rims, no longer made, are a valuable link to
reliable rims that subsequently became unreliable, the only apparent
change was hard anodizing. I think that has value in understanding
rim failure as does the absence of spoke sockets in rims I find
available in local bicycle shops.
So what's your perception of the rims you prefer?
Jobst Brandt
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 21:06:25
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: rim recommendations?
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jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Donald Gillies writes:
>
>> Maybe it's just me, but there's nothing I like better than debating
>> the merits of one out-of-production bicycle rim (MA-2) vs. another
>> out-of-production bicycle rim (MA-40). It's even better to try to
>> take potshots at the depth of anodizing or metallurgical composition
>> of these out-of-production rims ...
>
>> Of course, the metallurgy of these products has long-been
>> established by books such as "The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brandt.
>> They are made 100% of an alloy called "unobtainium" which increases
>> in strength with every new edition of that book ... It's a new
>> process called "Hype Hardening" that Reynolds is looking into for
>> its next set of tubes, Reynolds 1053.
>
> I guess it's just you in that you don't offer any evaluation or
> critique of current rims that seem to have no end to cracking from all
> the reports here. The rims, no longer made, are a valuable link to
> reliable rims that subsequently became unreliable, the only apparent
> change was hard anodizing.
no, the /actual/ change was the publishing of a little book that
recommended using spoke tension "as high as the rim can bear". excess
tension will crack any rim.
> I think that has value in understanding
> rim failure as does the absence of spoke sockets in rims I find
> available in local bicycle shops.
irrelevant.
>
> So what's your perception of the rims you prefer?
my observation is that of someone leaping to conclusions without doing
proper failure analysis. much like someone leaping to conclusions about
"residual stress" and spoke fatigue without understanding the materials
theory or even bothering to examine the failures.
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 07:45:30
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: rim recommendations?
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On Oct 14, 10:43 pm, gill...@cs.ubc.ca (Donald Gillies) wrote:
> Maybe it's just me, but there's nothing I like better than debating
> the merits of one out-of-production bicycle rim (MA-2) vs. another
> out-of-production bicycle rim (MA-40). It's even better to try to
> take potshots at the depth of anodizing or metallurgical composition
> of these out-of-production rims ...
>
> Of course, the metallurgy of these products has long-been established
> by books such as "The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brandt. They are made
> 100% of an alloy called "unobtainium" which increases in strength with
> every new edition of that book ... It's a new process called "Hype
> Hardening" that Reynolds is looking into for its next set of tubes,
> Reynolds 1053.
>
LOL!!! Well done!
> San Diego, CA.
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Date: 14 Oct 2007 21:13:42
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: rim recommendations?
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Donald Gillies wrote:
> Maybe it's just me, but there's nothing I like better than debating
> the merits of one out-of-production bicycle rim (MA-2) vs. another
> out-of-production bicycle rim (MA-40). It's even better to try to
> take potshots at the depth of anodizing or metallurgical composition
> of these out-of-production rims ...
>
> Of course, the metallurgy of these products has long-been established
> by books such as "The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brandt. They are made
> 100% of an alloy called "unobtainium" which increases in strength with
> every new edition of that book ... It's a new process called "Hype
> Hardening" that Reynolds is looking into for its next set of tubes,
> Reynolds 1053.
>
> - Don Gillies
> San Diego, CA.
"hype hardening" - excellent, one for the biography!
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