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Main
Date: 15 Jul 2007 21:00:54
From:
Subject: Rear spacing question(s)
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Can a 135mm rear spacing be changed to 130mm? If yes...what does this
entail?
Owen
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Date: 19 Jul 2007 10:09:43
From: Nate Knutson
Subject: Re: Rear spacing question(s)
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On Jul 17, 8:23 pm, owenco...@bright.net wrote:
> On Jul 16, 1:55 am, Nate Knutson <biken...@riseup.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 15, 10:06 pm, owenco...@bright.net wrote:
>
> > > My frame spacing is 130mm
>
> > > Owen
>
> > The general wisdom is that it's fine to use a 135 hub in a 130 steel
> > frame. (Al is probably fine too, but the discussion gets broader etc).
> > If you take this route, it's good to check and correct the dropout
> > alignment first as running with the wider hub crammed in will make it
> > just a bit worse.
>
> > In the long run, it probably makes more sense to just respace the
> > frame now. Less fatigue on the dropouts and more convenient wheel
> > installation/removal. Another cool thing about this is that you get to
> > make the rear triangle alignment perfect in the process. The dropouts
> > should always get aligned after you're done.
>
> > There's quite a bit more to think about re: reducing a 135 hub to 130
> > than vice versa. First of all, it's more or less not gonna happen with
> > a nonstandard-axle hub unless it's one of a very few that you can get
> > different length endcaps for. Of what's left, it's not gonna work with
> > anything that has a parallax-style contact seal, as the seal usually
> > extends all the way to just under the left locknut. What's left after
> > that is mostly low end Shimano and similar - that's where you can just
> > remove/replace spacers as much as you want. And even there, if you did
> > remove the 5mm on the left (it basically has to all come off the left,
> > as you don't have any clearance on the right to play with) the left/
> > right spoke tension disparity would end up being worse than any actual
> > 130 hub because the left flange is going to be so far out. (By the
> > same token, using 130 Shimano road hubs respaced to 135 on bikes that
> > don't need mtb hubs is a totally awesome thing to do, because combined
> > with an asymetric rim you can get a nearly dishless 8/9/10 speed
> > setup, and the reduced lateral strength doesn't seem to matter.)
>
> > If the specific goal is to use a new, nice quality mtb hub in a 130
> > bike that's already set up for 7spd, the good way of doing it would be
> > putting a 7 speed freehub body on whatever new shimano hub you want,
> > although I'm not sure about new xtr. The world is also very full of
> > old high-quality good condition 130 7spd hubs rotting away in bins.
>
> Thank you for taking the time to explain these things to me, Nate. I'm
> going to spread the frame, as you recommend, and check it's alignment
> too, again... as you have suggested. Will I be able to realign the
> dropouts by carefully rebending them with an adjustable spanner
> (crescent wrench) or do i need a more exotic set of tools for that
> purpose?
>
> Owen
There's a relatively expensive bike-specific tool that all shops have
that does this accurately, usually called a 'dropout alignment tool,'
sometimes called an 'H-tool.' People do it with adjustable wrenches
too; I haven't tried that myself but I don't think it would be very
good for doing much other than correcting large errors. You won't be
introducing very much error at all with just 5mm of added space.
Enough that between it and any previous error, IMO it'd be best to
check and correct it, but if the alignment was good before than you'd
be safe to just use it as it is after alignment. Also, it's a very
quick job for a shop to align the dropouts on a bare frame you hand
them, like 5 minutes quick, so that might be worth it too.
Make sure you've measured and developed a plan for what site gets how
much bending so that when you're done, you've done it with a minimum
of bends and now have perfect alignment. For example, say you want
135. You measure up the current frame and the spacing is, say, 130.3
with the rear triangle out 2mm to the right. Both of those numbers are
very typical amounts of error from the factory, btw. In this case you
could bring the left side out 4mm. Then you've got perfect alignment
and a spacing of 134.3, which will never make any kind of functional
difference over 135, and you've done it with just one bend. If you
wanted to be more exact you could pull the left 4.35 and the right .
35, but it's not necessary and tweaking the right by such a small
amount will be hard.
Also, it's a really good idea to practice all this on a junk frame
before you do one you care about.
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 20:34:37
From:
Subject: Re: Rear spacing question(s)
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On Jul 16, 12:18 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> owenco...@bright.net wrote:
> > Can a 135mm rear spacing be changed to 130mm? If yes...what does this
> > entail?
>
> A spoke's breadth on each side?
>
> It's a trivial change to a steel or ti frame but may be significant to
> carbon, aluminum rear ends. What is it?
>
> --
> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Yes, the frame in question is steel. Thanks for your encouraging
input.
Owen
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 20:33:22
From:
Subject: Re: Rear spacing question(s)
|
On Jul 16, 11:08 am, amakyonin <amakyonin...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Jul 16, 12:00 am, owenco...@bright.net wrote:
>
> > Can a 135mm rear spacing be changed to 130mm? If yes...what does this
> > entail?
>
> > Owen
>
> The most flexible solution is to respace your frame to 132.5mm. You
> can then use both size hubs without modification. Specialized does
> this with their Al road bikes so it should be no problem with steel.
Thank you for sharing this info with me. It has encouraged me to try
to spread the frame, myself.
Owen
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 20:31:55
From:
Subject: Re: Rear spacing question(s)
|
On Jul 16, 8:53 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net > wrote:
> owenco...@bright.net wrote:
> > On Jul 16, 12:18 am, Ozark Bicycle
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> >> On Jul 15, 11:00 pm, owenco...@bright.net wrote:
>
> >>> Can a 135mm rear spacing be changed to 130mm? If yes...what does this
> >>> entail?
> >>> Owen
> >> On a frame? What is the frame material?
>
> >> Or on a hub?
>
> > I was actually thinking of changing the spacing of the hub/ locknuts/
> > axle. My frame is steel.
>
> > Owen
>
> depends on the hub. lower down you say it's shimano. theoretically,
> you can remove a spacer on the left side, but that creates problems with
> the seal. i think you're better off using the wheel as-is or better
> yet, using a road hub/wheel in the frame.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thank you for your informative reply. It helped me decide to spread
the frame instead of messing with the hub particulars.
Owen
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 20:30:22
From:
Subject: Re: Rear spacing question(s)
|
On Jul 16, 8:12 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <pe...@vecchios.com >
wrote:
> On Jul 15, 11:02 pm, owenco...@bright.net wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 16, 12:18 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > On Jul 15, 11:00 pm, owenco...@bright.net wrote:
>
> > > > Can a 135mm rear spacing be changed to 130mm? If yes...what does this
> > > > entail?
>
> > > > Owen
>
> > > On a frame? What is the frame material?
>
> > > Or on a hub?
>
> > I was actually thinking of changing the spacing of the hub/ locknuts/
> > axle. My frame is steel.
>
> > Owen
>
> Depends on the hub. Taking 5mm of spacers off the left and raising the
> tension on the right may make for a problematic wheel. May not have
> enough space on the right to remove spacers.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thank you for your explanation... I could not see this in my own mind,
but now it makes sense.
Owen
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 20:28:24
From:
Subject: Re: Rear spacing question(s)
|
On Jul 16, 1:57 am, "NickP" <some...@nowhere.au > wrote:
> You'll probably need a shorter axle and possibly a smaller spacing washer
> unless there is a washer of 5mm that can be removed. If you try to keep the
> original axle it will, depending on the thickness of the dropouts, probably
> stick out so far that the quick release won't clamp on the dropout properly.
>
> The wheel will also need redishing if the hub is already spoked up.
>
> <owenco...@bright.net> wrote in message
>
> news:1184558454.658424.117450@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Can a 135mm rear spacing be changed to 130mm? If yes...what does this
> > entail?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks, Nick... because of the pains involved, which you've shared,
I'm going to go ahead and spread the frame.
Owen
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 20:23:57
From:
Subject: Re: Rear spacing question(s)
|
On Jul 16, 1:55 am, Nate Knutson <biken...@riseup.net > wrote:
> On Jul 15, 10:06 pm, owenco...@bright.net wrote:
>
> > My frame spacing is 130mm
>
> > Owen
>
> The general wisdom is that it's fine to use a 135 hub in a 130 steel
> frame. (Al is probably fine too, but the discussion gets broader etc).
> If you take this route, it's good to check and correct the dropout
> alignment first as running with the wider hub crammed in will make it
> just a bit worse.
>
> In the long run, it probably makes more sense to just respace the
> frame now. Less fatigue on the dropouts and more convenient wheel
> installation/removal. Another cool thing about this is that you get to
> make the rear triangle alignment perfect in the process. The dropouts
> should always get aligned after you're done.
>
> There's quite a bit more to think about re: reducing a 135 hub to 130
> than vice versa. First of all, it's more or less not gonna happen with
> a nonstandard-axle hub unless it's one of a very few that you can get
> different length endcaps for. Of what's left, it's not gonna work with
> anything that has a parallax-style contact seal, as the seal usually
> extends all the way to just under the left locknut. What's left after
> that is mostly low end Shimano and similar - that's where you can just
> remove/replace spacers as much as you want. And even there, if you did
> remove the 5mm on the left (it basically has to all come off the left,
> as you don't have any clearance on the right to play with) the left/
> right spoke tension disparity would end up being worse than any actual
> 130 hub because the left flange is going to be so far out. (By the
> same token, using 130 Shimano road hubs respaced to 135 on bikes that
> don't need mtb hubs is a totally awesome thing to do, because combined
> with an asymetric rim you can get a nearly dishless 8/9/10 speed
> setup, and the reduced lateral strength doesn't seem to matter.)
>
> If the specific goal is to use a new, nice quality mtb hub in a 130
> bike that's already set up for 7spd, the good way of doing it would be
> putting a 7 speed freehub body on whatever new shimano hub you want,
> although I'm not sure about new xtr. The world is also very full of
> old high-quality good condition 130 7spd hubs rotting away in bins.
Thank you for taking the time to explain these things to me, Nate. I'm
going to spread the frame, as you recommend, and check it's alignment
too, again... as you have suggested. Will I be able to realign the
dropouts by carefully rebending them with an adjustable spanner
(crescent wrench) or do i need a more exotic set of tools for that
purpose?
Owen
|
| |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 11:18:55
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Rear spacing question(s)
|
owencoors@bright.net wrote:
> Can a 135mm rear spacing be changed to 130mm? If yes...what does this
> entail?
A spoke's breadth on each side?
It's a trivial change to a steel or ti frame but may be significant to
carbon, aluminum rear ends. What is it?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 16 Jul 2007 08:08:06
From: amakyonin
Subject: Re: Rear spacing question(s)
|
On Jul 16, 12:00 am, owenco...@bright.net wrote:
> Can a 135mm rear spacing be changed to 130mm? If yes...what does this
> entail?
>
> Owen
The most flexible solution is to respace your frame to 132.5mm. You
can then use both size hubs without modification. Specialized does
this with their Al road bikes so it should be no problem with steel.
|
| |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 12:14:41
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Rear spacing question(s)
|
On Jul 15, 11:17 pm, owenco...@bright.net wrote:
> To clarify... I'm wanting to use the latest Shimano Deore XT disc
> brake hubs (with 135mm spacing) on my steel frame road bike (with
> 130mm spacing). I was thinking that I might be able to remove a 5mm
> shim, adjust the axle and cut off the excess axle length. Is that
> possible with this rear hub?
>
> Owen
Again, may cause the cogs to be to close to the frame on the right OR
moves the disc somewhere so that it isn't lined up wth the caliper.
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Date: 16 Jul 2007 12:12:57
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Rear spacing question(s)
|
On Jul 15, 11:02 pm, owenco...@bright.net wrote:
> On Jul 16, 12:18 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 15, 11:00 pm, owenco...@bright.net wrote:
>
> > > Can a 135mm rear spacing be changed to 130mm? If yes...what does this
> > > entail?
>
> > > Owen
>
> > On a frame? What is the frame material?
>
> > Or on a hub?
>
> I was actually thinking of changing the spacing of the hub/ locknuts/
> axle. My frame is steel.
>
> Owen
Depends on the hub. Taking 5mm of spacers off the left and raising the
tension on the right may make for a problematic wheel. May not have
enough space on the right to remove spacers.
|
| |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 15:57:17
From: NickP
Subject: Re: Rear spacing question(s)
|
You'll probably need a shorter axle and possibly a smaller spacing washer
unless there is a washer of 5mm that can be removed. If you try to keep the
original axle it will, depending on the thickness of the dropouts, probably
stick out so far that the quick release won't clamp on the dropout properly.
The wheel will also need redishing if the hub is already spoked up.
<owencoors@bright.net > wrote in message
news:1184558454.658424.117450@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> Can a 135mm rear spacing be changed to 130mm? If yes...what does this
> entail?
|
| |
Date: 15 Jul 2007 22:55:02
From: Nate Knutson
Subject: Re: Rear spacing question(s)
|
On Jul 15, 10:06 pm, owenco...@bright.net wrote:
> My frame spacing is 130mm
>
> Owen
The general wisdom is that it's fine to use a 135 hub in a 130 steel
frame. (Al is probably fine too, but the discussion gets broader etc).
If you take this route, it's good to check and correct the dropout
alignment first as running with the wider hub crammed in will make it
just a bit worse.
In the long run, it probably makes more sense to just respace the
frame now. Less fatigue on the dropouts and more convenient wheel
installation/removal. Another cool thing about this is that you get to
make the rear triangle alignment perfect in the process. The dropouts
should always get aligned after you're done.
There's quite a bit more to think about re: reducing a 135 hub to 130
than vice versa. First of all, it's more or less not gonna happen with
a nonstandard-axle hub unless it's one of a very few that you can get
different length endcaps for. Of what's left, it's not gonna work with
anything that has a parallax-style contact seal, as the seal usually
extends all the way to just under the left locknut. What's left after
that is mostly low end Shimano and similar - that's where you can just
remove/replace spacers as much as you want. And even there, if you did
remove the 5mm on the left (it basically has to all come off the left,
as you don't have any clearance on the right to play with) the left/
right spoke tension disparity would end up being worse than any actual
130 hub because the left flange is going to be so far out. (By the
same token, using 130 Shimano road hubs respaced to 135 on bikes that
don't need mtb hubs is a totally awesome thing to do, because combined
with an asymetric rim you can get a nearly dishless 8/9/10 speed
setup, and the reduced lateral strength doesn't seem to matter.)
If the specific goal is to use a new, nice quality mtb hub in a 130
bike that's already set up for 7spd, the good way of doing it would be
putting a 7 speed freehub body on whatever new shimano hub you want,
although I'm not sure about new xtr. The world is also very full of
old high-quality good condition 130 7spd hubs rotting away in bins.
|
| |
Date: 15 Jul 2007 22:17:01
From:
Subject: Re: Rear spacing question(s)
|
To clarify... I'm wanting to use the latest Shimano Deore XT disc
brake hubs (with 135mm spacing) on my steel frame road bike (with
130mm spacing). I was thinking that I might be able to remove a 5mm
shim, adjust the axle and cut off the excess axle length. Is that
possible with this rear hub?
Owen
|
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Date: 15 Jul 2007 22:06:38
From:
Subject: Re: Rear spacing question(s)
|
My frame spacing is 130mm
Owen
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Date: 15 Jul 2007 22:04:16
From:
Subject: Re: Rear spacing question(s)
|
On Jul 16, 12:43 am, JeffWills <jwi...@pacifier.com > wrote:
> On Jul 15, 8:00 pm, owenco...@bright.net wrote:
>
> > Can a 135mm rear spacing be changed to 130mm? If yes...what does this
> > entail?
>
> > Owen
>
> Consult the guru:http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html
>
> I've done the opposite on both frames and hubs (130mm to 135mm, that
> is). It's quite easy, actually, even if you have minimal mechanical
> experience. There are some gotchas, though, which are explained in
> detail in Sheldon's article.
>
> Jeff
Thanks for Sheldon's link on this. I was not thinking about spreading
the frame. Is this the best way for me to use 135mm hubs in my older
(1998) steel 7 speed frame?
Owen
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Date: 15 Jul 2007 22:02:13
From:
Subject: Re: Rear spacing question(s)
|
On Jul 16, 12:18 am, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jul 15, 11:00 pm, owenco...@bright.net wrote:
>
> > Can a 135mm rear spacing be changed to 130mm? If yes...what does this
> > entail?
>
> > Owen
>
> On a frame? What is the frame material?
>
> Or on a hub?
I was actually thinking of changing the spacing of the hub/ locknuts/
axle. My frame is steel.
Owen
|
| | |
Date: 16 Jul 2007 05:53:40
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Rear spacing question(s)
|
owencoors@bright.net wrote:
> On Jul 16, 12:18 am, Ozark Bicycle
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 15, 11:00 pm, owenco...@bright.net wrote:
>>
>>> Can a 135mm rear spacing be changed to 130mm? If yes...what does this
>>> entail?
>>> Owen
>> On a frame? What is the frame material?
>>
>> Or on a hub?
>
> I was actually thinking of changing the spacing of the hub/ locknuts/
> axle. My frame is steel.
>
> Owen
>
depends on the hub. lower down you say it's shimano. theoretically,
you can remove a spacer on the left side, but that creates problems with
the seal. i think you're better off using the wheel as-is or better
yet, using a road hub/wheel in the frame.
|
| |
Date: 15 Jul 2007 21:43:29
From: JeffWills
Subject: Re: Rear spacing question(s)
|
On Jul 15, 8:00 pm, owenco...@bright.net wrote:
> Can a 135mm rear spacing be changed to 130mm? If yes...what does this
> entail?
>
> Owen
Consult the guru:
http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html
I've done the opposite on both frames and hubs (130mm to 135mm, that
is). It's quite easy, actually, even if you have minimal mechanical
experience. There are some gotchas, though, which are explained in
detail in Sheldon's article.
Jeff
|
| |
Date: 15 Jul 2007 21:18:37
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Rear spacing question(s)
|
On Jul 15, 11:00 pm, owenco...@bright.net wrote:
> Can a 135mm rear spacing be changed to 130mm? If yes...what does this
> entail?
>
> Owen
On a frame? What is the frame material?
Or on a hub?
|
|
