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Main
Date: 06 Jun 2007 14:30:54
From: Scott Gordo
Subject: Replacing a busted MA3 rim with a Sun CR18?
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A couple weeks back I, like many others, popped an eyelet on a Mavic
MA3 700c rim after 3-4 years of hard use. So I'm replacement
shopping....
Pertinent(?) info:
- The wheel is a rear 32 spoke fixie Surly hub with, I think,
Wheelsmith spokes. No dish.
- It's mainly a commuting/around NYC/laps in the park bike.
- I'm 6'2 and 215lbs, and strong and cheap win over rim weight
concerns.
- I'm planning on rerimming, using the same spokes, so I'd like a rim
which would use the same spoke length as the MA3.
I've heard some widely ranging opinions on Sun CR18 rims. They sure
are inexpensive compared to, say, a Mavic Open Pro. Some say they're
great, others seem to say that the outer perimeter (is this the
wheeleratti call it the ERD? or is the ERD the internal diameter
designating spoke length?) makes it difficult to mount tires. Any
consensus? Other recommendations? I read a thread from last month
which touts Alex rims. I've ridden Alex branded rims on my MTB and
didn't think much of them, but the wheels were OEM and machine built.
And, as mentioned, I'd like to tape the rims side-by-side and reuse
the spokes. I know it's less than ideal, but I guess I'm cheap and the
wheel seemed well-built as the rim stayed true until the day it broke.
Even though it did break, which may suggest over-tensioning. Anyway,
this will be my first build and I'm willing to learn the hard way.
Advice?
Thanks.
Scott
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Date: 06 Jun 2007 21:38:50
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Replacing a busted MA3 rim with a Sun CR18?
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In article <1181140254.703314.310670@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com >,
Scott Gordo <blubberpuss@gmail.com > wrote:
> I've heard some widely ranging opinions on Sun CR18 rims. They sure
> are inexpensive compared to, say, a Mavic Open Pro. Some say they're
> great, others seem to say that the outer perimeter (is this the
> wheeleratti call it the ERD? or is the ERD the internal diameter
> designating spoke length?) makes it difficult to mount tires.
I just replaced a Sun CR-16 after 11 years and ~25,000 miles with a
CR-18. It's polished, it built up true and easy, tires mount fine (this
is a 26" though) and thus far I have no complaints.
> And, as mentioned, I'd like to tape the rims side-by-side and reuse
> the spokes. I know it's less than ideal, but I guess I'm cheap and the
> wheel seemed well-built as the rim stayed true until the day it broke.
> Even though it did break, which may suggest over-tensioning. Anyway,
> this will be my first build and I'm willing to learn the hard way.
There's nothing non-deal about re-rimming a wheel in this way. Those
spokes are fine, just transfer them over. I've done this a half dozen
times or so and have had no problems as a result.
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Date: 07 Jun 2007 02:13:21
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Replacing a busted MA3 rim with a Sun CR18?
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On Jun 6, 8:45 pm, Johnny Sunset <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 12:27 pm, "Ozark Bicycle" wrote:
>
> > ...
> > IMO, the CR18 is a nice rim for what it is, a wide-ish, heavy-ish
> > touring/commuting/etc., rim...
>
> Better than a NOS Mavic MA-2?
Not if your name is Jobst Brandt!
Seriously, though, the CR18 is a good rim; heavier and wider than an
MA-2, thus better suited for wider tires.
For $9.95, they are a steal!
>
> My only experience with the Sun CR-18 is the ISO 406-mm version on the
> back on a recumbent, where it has taken quite a few hard hits from
> potholes with no ill effects.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 06 Jun 2007 18:45:38
From: Johnny Sunset
Subject: Re: Replacing a busted MA3 rim with a Sun CR18?
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On Jun 6, 12:27 pm, "Ozark Bicycle" wrote:
> ...
> IMO, the CR18 is a nice rim for what it is, a wide-ish, heavy-ish
> touring/commuting/etc., rim...
Better than a NOS Mavic MA-2?
My only experience with the Sun CR-18 is the ISO 406-mm version on the
back on a recumbent, where it has taken quite a few hard hits from
potholes with no ill effects.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 06 Jun 2007 21:41:50
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Replacing a busted MA3 rim with a Sun CR18?
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In article <1181180738.448680.258950@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com >,
Johnny Sunset <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 12:27 pm, "Ozark Bicycle" wrote:
> > ... IMO, the CR18 is a nice rim for what it is, a wide-ish,
> > heavy-ish touring/commuting/etc., rim...
>
> Better than a NOS Mavic MA-2?
Better in that you can actually buy them. But not better as in "a
better rim."
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Date: 06 Jun 2007 18:10:19
From: Gary Young
Subject: Re: Replacing a busted MA3 rim with a Sun CR18?
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On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 15:28:00 -0400, BCDrums wrote:
> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
>>
>> NOTE: Nashbar has (or, at least had) 32H CR18s in both silver and
>> black for ***$9.95 ea.***. That, my friends, is a good deal!
>>
>
> Schrader drilling only! Couldn't find it in presta. Discontinued, maybe?
>
> BC
Also, the CR18s that Nashbar has on sale don't have eyelets.
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Date: 06 Jun 2007 22:34:35
From: Scott Gordo
Subject: Re: Replacing a busted MA3 rim with a Sun CR18?
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On Jun 6, 5:48 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 2:28 pm, BCDrums <bcdr...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
> > > NOTE: Nashbar has (or, at least had) 32H CR18s in both silver and
> > > black for ***$9.95 ea.***. That, my friends, is a good deal!
>
> > Schrader drilling only! Couldn't find it in presta. Discontinued, maybe?
>
> > BC
>
> IMO, Schraeder drilling makes alot of sense for a touring rim. You can
> use a "presta stem saver" and remove it if you can only find Schrader
> tubes at the general store in West Bugfest. I've used this arrangement
> on my touring bike for many years.
GAH! Already ordered.
Oh well, no biggie and at that price I can rationalize. And, natch, it
does provide me with some added flexibility should I damage a tube
beyond repair and I'm out in Planet Walmart.
I just called Nashbar and tacked a couple Wheels Manufacturing Presta
Savers at $3/pair, plus some rim tape.
/s
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Date: 06 Jun 2007 21:48:43
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Replacing a busted MA3 rim with a Sun CR18?
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On Jun 6, 2:28 pm, BCDrums <bcdr...@comcast.net > wrote:
> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
> > NOTE: Nashbar has (or, at least had) 32H CR18s in both silver and
> > black for ***$9.95 ea.***. That, my friends, is a good deal!
>
> Schrader drilling only! Couldn't find it in presta. Discontinued, maybe?
>
> BC
IMO, Schraeder drilling makes alot of sense for a touring rim. You can
use a "presta stem saver" and remove it if you can only find Schrader
tubes at the general store in West Bugfest. I've used this arrangement
on my touring bike for many years.
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Date: 06 Jun 2007 21:31:26
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Replacing a busted MA3 rim with a Sun CR18?
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In article
<1181140254.703314.310670@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com >
,
Scott Gordo <blubberpuss@gmail.com > wrote:
> A couple weeks back I, like many others, popped an eyelet on a Mavic
> MA3 700c rim after 3-4 years of hard use. So I'm replacement
> shopping....
>
> Pertinent(?) info:
>
> - The wheel is a rear 32 spoke fixie Surly hub with, I think,
> Wheelsmith spokes. No dish.
> - It's mainly a commuting/around NYC/laps in the park bike.
> - I'm 6'2 and 215lbs, and strong and cheap win over rim weight
> concerns.
> - I'm planning on rerimming, using the same spokes, so I'd like a rim
> which would use the same spoke length as the MA3.
>
> I've heard some widely ranging opinions on Sun CR18 rims. They sure
> are inexpensive compared to, say, a Mavic Open Pro. Some say they're
> great, others seem to say that the outer perimeter (is this the
> wheeleratti call it the ERD? or is the ERD the internal diameter
> designating spoke length?) makes it difficult to mount tires. Any
> consensus? Other recommendations? I read a thread from last month
> which touts Alex rims. I've ridden Alex branded rims on my MTB and
> didn't think much of them, but the wheels were OEM and machine built.
>
> And, as mentioned, I'd like to tape the rims side-by-side and reuse
> the spokes. I know it's less than ideal, but I guess I'm cheap and the
> wheel seemed well-built as the rim stayed true until the day it broke.
> Even though it did break, which may suggest over-tensioning. Anyway,
> this will be my first build and I'm willing to learn the hard way.
CR18 rims are solid, and come to you round. They
perform flawlessly for me. Mavic selling a rim with
popping eyelets is inexcusable, and their prices!
--
Michael Press
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Date: 06 Jun 2007 18:29:15
From: treynolds@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Replacing a busted MA3 rim with a Sun CR18?
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On Jun 6, 7:30 am, Scott Gordo <blubberp...@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> I've heard some widely ranging opinions on Sun CR18 rims.....
>
I've built four wheels with Sun CR18s. Mine are harder to mount tires
on, but not dramatically so.
Regarding durability, I have one with about 4000 miles on a straight
bar road bike which I often take offroad with 120 psi tires. It gets
the hell beat out of it. It has remained true and straight. OTOH, I
also have one on the rear of my tandem. It was recommended and built
by Sheldon. A few months ago an eyelet pulled through as I was
deflating the tire. So I don't know. The last time I ordered some
from LickBike they told me that a new manufacturer had bought the
brand.
The ultimate in strength would be a Kris Holm rim, made for mountain
unicycles.
> And, as mentioned, I'd like to tape the rims side-by-side and reuse
> the spokes. I know it's less than ideal, ....
>
I see nothing wrong with that. I can tell you that I did that with a
Mavic Open Pro to Sun CR-18. The spokes were a little short but
worked well.
Tom
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Date: 06 Jun 2007 17:27:36
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Replacing a busted MA3 rim with a Sun CR18?
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On Jun 6, 9:30 am, Scott Gordo <blubberp...@gmail.com > wrote:
> A couple weeks back I, like many others, popped an eyelet on a Mavic
> MA3 700c rim after 3-4 years of hard use. So I'm replacement
> shopping....
>
> Pertinent(?) info:
>
> - The wheel is a rear 32 spoke fixie Surly hub with, I think,
> Wheelsmith spokes. No dish.
> - It's mainly a commuting/around NYC/laps in the park bike.
> - I'm 6'2 and 215lbs, and strong and cheap win over rim weight
> concerns.
> - I'm planning on rerimming, using the same spokes, so I'd like a rim
> which would use the same spoke length as the MA3.
>
> I've heard some widely ranging opinions on Sun CR18 rims. They sure
> are inexpensive compared to, say, a Mavic Open Pro. Some say they're
> great, others seem to say that the outer perimeter (is this the
> wheeleratti call it the ERD? or is the ERD the internal diameter
> designating spoke length?) makes it difficult to mount tires. Any
> consensus? Other recommendations? I read a thread from last month
> which touts Alex rims. I've ridden Alex branded rims on my MTB and
> didn't think much of them, but the wheels were OEM and machine built.
>
> And, as mentioned, I'd like to tape the rims side-by-side and reuse
> the spokes. I know it's less than ideal, but I guess I'm cheap and the
> wheel seemed well-built as the rim stayed true until the day it broke.
> Even though it did break, which may suggest over-tensioning. Anyway,
> this will be my first build and I'm willing to learn the hard way.
>
> Advice?
>
The MA3 has an ERD of 609mm. The Sun CR18 has an ERD of 612mm. So,
your spokes are *probably* ~2mm short of ideal.
IMO, the CR18 is a nice rim for what it is, a wide-ish, heavy-ish
touring/commuting/etc., rim
NOTE: Nashbar has (or, at least had) 32H CR18s in both silver and
black for ***$9.95 ea.***. That, my friends, is a good deal!
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Date: 06 Jun 2007 15:28:00
From: BCDrums
Subject: Re: Replacing a busted MA3 rim with a Sun CR18?
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Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
> NOTE: Nashbar has (or, at least had) 32H CR18s in both silver and
> black for ***$9.95 ea.***. That, my friends, is a good deal!
>
Schrader drilling only! Couldn't find it in presta. Discontinued, maybe?
BC
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Date: 06 Jun 2007 09:14:38
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Replacing a busted MA3 rim with a Sun CR18?
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On Jun 6, 10:31 am, Dane Buson <d...@unseen.edu > wrote:
> Scott Gordo <blubberp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > A couple weeks back I, like many others, popped an eyelet on a Mavic
> > MA3 700c rim after 3-4 years of hard use. So I'm replacement
> > shopping....
>
> > Pertinent(?) info:
>
> > - The wheel is a rear 32 spoke fixie Surly hub with, I think,
> > Wheelsmith spokes. No dish.
> > - It's mainly a commuting/around NYC/laps in the park bike.
> > - I'm 6'2 and 215lbs, and strong and cheap win over rim weight
> > concerns.
> > - I'm planning on rerimming, using the same spokes, so I'd like a rim
> > which would use the same spoke length as the MA3.
>
> > I've heard some widely ranging opinions on Sun CR18 rims. They sure
> > are inexpensive compared to, say, a Mavic Open Pro. Some say they're
> > great, others seem to say that the outer perimeter (is this the
> > wheeleratti call it the ERD? or is the ERD the internal diameter
> > designating spoke length?) makes it difficult to mount tires. Any
> > consensus? Other recommendations? I read a thread from last month
> > which touts Alex rims. I've ridden Alex branded rims on my MTB and
> > didn't think much of them, but the wheels were OEM and machine built.
Machine built. That's the problem. They're almost always too slack
with uneven tension. The last set I got from an online discounter were
appalling, especially the non drive side rear.
>
> Alex Adventurer - $22.50 + shipping
>
> http://store.airbomb.com/ItemDesc.asp?IC=RM7512
>
> It's the same ERD as the MA3 and I've been much much more impressed with
> their toughness than the MA3. I'm about to replace the front rim after
> two years of commuting (braking wear). It's taken some fairly stupid
> hits and not had any problems. I'm about the same size as you (6'1" and
> 205 lbs).
Yup, that's a stupid strong rim for the price of a large pizza. Sure
the ERD's the same? I thought the Alex was a couple mm's smaller? Even
so, it might work.
>
> > And, as mentioned, I'd like to tape the rims side-by-side and reuse
> > the spokes. I know it's less than ideal, but I guess I'm cheap and the
> > wheel seemed well-built as the rim stayed true until the day it broke.
> > Even though it did break, which may suggest over-tensioning. Anyway,
> > this will be my first build and I'm willing to learn the hard way.
>
> A dishless wheel is ideal for your first build. Reusing the spokes
> will be fine.
>
Done this a few times myself. Indeed, it's a breeze if you tape the
rims together. Make sure the spoke holes are pointing the right way,
most are slightly directional. Sheldon's tip of using a philips bit
with two of the "fins" nearly ground off is excellent! I wouldn't want
to do a rim swap without a spoke driver or such a bit.
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Date: 06 Jun 2007 09:26:28
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Replacing a busted MA3 rim with a Sun CR18?
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landotter <landotter@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jun 6, 10:31 am, Dane Buson <d...@unseen.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Alex Adventurer - $22.50 + shipping
>>
>> http://store.airbomb.com/ItemDesc.asp?IC=RM7512
>>
>> It's the same ERD as the MA3 and I've been much much more impressed
>> with their toughness than the MA3. I'm about to replace the front
>> rim after two years of commuting (braking wear). It's taken some
>> fairly stupid hits and not had any problems. I'm about the same size
>> as you (6'1" and 205 lbs).
>
> Yup, that's a stupid strong rim for the price of a large pizza. Sure
> the ERD's the same? I thought the Alex was a couple mm's smaller? Even
> so, it might work.
I only wish they came in 48 spoke variants. They're 608 vs. 608.5,
close enough as to make no difference.
>> A dishless wheel is ideal for your first build. Reusing the spokes
>> will be fine.
>
> Done this a few times myself. Indeed, it's a breeze if you tape the
> rims together. Make sure the spoke holes are pointing the right way,
> most are slightly directional. Sheldon's tip of using a philips bit
> with two of the "fins" nearly ground off is excellent!
That's what I've done. Next time I'll see if I can't find a bench
grinder to do it with. Using a vice and an angle grinder produced a
working tool, but it was kind of sloppy.
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
'You know all those spasticated-looking hip-hop gestures involving
extended fingers and wrists cocked at odd angles which are intended to
have a meaning to the effect of "Kinoath!" or "You have spoken wisely,
my friend."? I'm making one in your direction now...' Marko in aus.moto
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Date: 06 Jun 2007 08:31:08
From: Dane Buson
Subject: Re: Replacing a busted MA3 rim with a Sun CR18?
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Scott Gordo <blubberpuss@gmail.com > wrote:
> A couple weeks back I, like many others, popped an eyelet on a Mavic
> MA3 700c rim after 3-4 years of hard use. So I'm replacement
> shopping....
>
> Pertinent(?) info:
>
> - The wheel is a rear 32 spoke fixie Surly hub with, I think,
> Wheelsmith spokes. No dish.
> - It's mainly a commuting/around NYC/laps in the park bike.
> - I'm 6'2 and 215lbs, and strong and cheap win over rim weight
> concerns.
> - I'm planning on rerimming, using the same spokes, so I'd like a rim
> which would use the same spoke length as the MA3.
>
> I've heard some widely ranging opinions on Sun CR18 rims. They sure
> are inexpensive compared to, say, a Mavic Open Pro. Some say they're
> great, others seem to say that the outer perimeter (is this the
> wheeleratti call it the ERD? or is the ERD the internal diameter
> designating spoke length?) makes it difficult to mount tires. Any
> consensus? Other recommendations? I read a thread from last month
> which touts Alex rims. I've ridden Alex branded rims on my MTB and
> didn't think much of them, but the wheels were OEM and machine built.
Alex Adventurer - $22.50 + shipping
http://store.airbomb.com/ItemDesc.asp?IC=RM7512
It's the same ERD as the MA3 and I've been much much more impressed with
their toughness than the MA3. I'm about to replace the front rim after
two years of commuting (braking wear). It's taken some fairly stupid
hits and not had any problems. I'm about the same size as you (6'1" and
205 lbs).
> And, as mentioned, I'd like to tape the rims side-by-side and reuse
> the spokes. I know it's less than ideal, but I guess I'm cheap and the
> wheel seemed well-built as the rim stayed true until the day it broke.
> Even though it did break, which may suggest over-tensioning. Anyway,
> this will be my first build and I'm willing to learn the hard way.
A dishless wheel is ideal for your first build. Reusing the spokes
will be fine.
--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"Duct tape is like the Force. It has a dark side,
it has a light side, and it holds the Universe together."
-Carl Zwanig
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