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Main
Date: 15 Oct 2007 15:04:14
From: Scott Gordo
Subject: Reusing silver-brazed Nervex Lugs?
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I've got a '75 Paramount track frame with 531 tubes, silver-brazed
Nervex lugs, a top tube with a sizeable ding where the handlebars
smacked it during a crash, and a BB that's cracked at the plug. It's
also a tad big for me, by 2cm or so.
I'm in the process of exploring my options. Obviously, I can
pragmatically replace the frame with something cheap and fine.
However, I'm entertaining the idea preserving what I can. Honestly,
the more I think about it, the more ridiculous this whole thing
sounds, but, if only for academics....
If I could snap my fingers, say presto, and have the bike magically
transformed, it would be:
- 2cm shorter (both seat tube and top tube)
- bb repaired
- top tube repaired
What I don't care much about is paint. It has already been resprayed
(badly), and the bike spends too much time outside to be parade
quality lookwise.
So, in this magical transformation, the top and bottom tubes would
shrink, the top tube's ding would be repaired. The seat tube would
shrink, as would the head tube. The seat tubes would need to shrink,
get new 'salami' cuts at the top, and the angle from the rear fork
ends would need adjustment....
Ridiculous.
Or, I could have the lugs and fork ends removed, and have the frame
rebuilt using new tubes....
/s
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Date: 18 Oct 2007 14:06:30
From: sergio
Subject: Re: Reusing silver-brazed Nervex Lugs?
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On 18 Ott, 20:48, Scott Gordo <blubberp...@gmail.com >
> Yer killin' me.
No worry.
By the 1st of April Andrew will bring you back to life.
He can!
Sergio
Pisa
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Date: 18 Oct 2007 11:48:56
From: Scott Gordo
Subject: Re: Reusing silver-brazed Nervex Lugs?
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On Oct 17, 6:56 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> > Scott Gordo <blubberp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I've got a '75 Paramount track frame with 531 tubes, silver-brazed
> >> Nervex lugs, a top tube with a sizeable ding where the handlebars
> >> smacked it during a crash, and a BB that's cracked at the plug. It's
> >> also a tad big for me, by 2cm or so.
> > [...]
> >> I could have the lugs and fork ends removed, and have the frame
> >> rebuilt using new tubes....
> John Thompson wrote:
> > You could do this but the complex shape of the Nervex Pro lug makes it
> > trickier to cleanly pull the tubes. All those fancy curlicues have a
> > tendency to distort and break if they aren't all kept hot enough while
> > you're pulling, or burn off if you get them too hot.
>
> > Try it if you're daring. Be certain the joints aren't pinned before you
> > start pulling things otherwise you're in for a world of grief. If they
> > are pinned, drill out the pins before you start. You can fill the holes
> > later when you replace the tubes.
>
> You got that right!
>
> Paramounts are not pinned and being silver are easier than most to redo.
> But given the extensive work here, it's marginal and if there's chrome
> it just doesn't make much sense.
>
> That never stops a determined guy, though:http://www.yellowjersey.org/r43.html
> --
> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yer killin' me.
/s
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Date: 16 Oct 2007 19:42:28
From: John Thompson
Subject: Re: Reusing silver-brazed Nervex Lugs?
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On 2007-10-15, Scott Gordo <blubberpuss@gmail.com > wrote:
> I've got a '75 Paramount track frame with 531 tubes, silver-brazed
> Nervex lugs, a top tube with a sizeable ding where the handlebars
> smacked it during a crash, and a BB that's cracked at the plug. It's
> also a tad big for me, by 2cm or so.
[...]
> I could have the lugs and fork ends removed, and have the frame
> rebuilt using new tubes....
You could do this but the complex shape of the Nervex Pro lug makes it
trickier to cleanly pull the tubes. All those fancy curlicues have a
tendency to distort and break if they aren't all kept hot enough while
you're pulling, or burn off if you get them too hot.
Try it if you're daring. Be certain the joints aren't pinned before you
start pulling things otherwise you're in for a world of grief. If they
are pinned, drill out the pins before you start. You can fill the holes
later when you replace the tubes.
--
John (john@os2.dhs.org)
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Date: 17 Oct 2007 17:56:29
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Reusing silver-brazed Nervex Lugs?
|
> Scott Gordo <blubberpuss@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've got a '75 Paramount track frame with 531 tubes, silver-brazed
>> Nervex lugs, a top tube with a sizeable ding where the handlebars
>> smacked it during a crash, and a BB that's cracked at the plug. It's
>> also a tad big for me, by 2cm or so.
> [...]
>> I could have the lugs and fork ends removed, and have the frame
>> rebuilt using new tubes....
John Thompson wrote:
> You could do this but the complex shape of the Nervex Pro lug makes it
> trickier to cleanly pull the tubes. All those fancy curlicues have a
> tendency to distort and break if they aren't all kept hot enough while
> you're pulling, or burn off if you get them too hot.
>
> Try it if you're daring. Be certain the joints aren't pinned before you
> start pulling things otherwise you're in for a world of grief. If they
> are pinned, drill out the pins before you start. You can fill the holes
> later when you replace the tubes.
You got that right!
Paramounts are not pinned and being silver are easier than most to redo.
But given the extensive work here, it's marginal and if there's chrome
it just doesn't make much sense.
That never stops a determined guy, though:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/r43.html
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 19 Oct 2007 00:33:19
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Reusing silver-brazed Nervex Lugs?
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Andrew Muzi mused:
> ...
> Paramounts are not pinned and being silver are easier than most to redo.
> But given the extensive work here, it's marginal and if there's chrome
> it just doesn't make much sense.
>
> That never stops a determined guy, though:
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/r43.html
Too bad about the camera. They need to make a camera that takes out the
eye of thief that steals it.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!
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Date: 19 Oct 2007 12:22:34
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: Reusing silver-brazed Nervex Lugs?
|
"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:ff9fj1$pjh$5@registered.motzarella.org...
> Andrew Muzi mused:
> > ...
> > Paramounts are not pinned and being silver are easier than most to
redo.
> > But given the extensive work here, it's marginal and if there's chrome
> > it just doesn't make much sense.
> >
> > That never stops a determined guy, though:
> > http://www.yellowjersey.org/r43.html
>
> Too bad about the camera. They need to make a camera that takes out the
> eye of thief that steals it.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!
We had a big box full plastic banks that looked like Kodak Instamatic
cameras. We used to leave them set on the counter to see how long it would
take one of them to disappear. ;-)
Cameras, guns and bikes get stolen faster than cash....
Chas.
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Date: 19 Oct 2007 17:36:21
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Theft (was: Reusing silver-brazed Nervex Lugs?)
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* * Chas wrote:
> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ff9fj1$pjh$5@registered.motzarella.org...
>> Andrew Muzi mused:
>>> ...
>>> Paramounts are not pinned and being silver are easier than most to
> redo.
>>> But given the extensive work here, it's marginal and if there's chrome
>>> it just doesn't make much sense.
>>>
>>> That never stops a determined guy, though:
>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/r43.html
>> Too bad about the camera. They need to make a camera that takes out the
>> eye of thief that steals it.
>>
>
> We had a big box full plastic banks that looked like Kodak Instamatic
> cameras. We used to leave them set on the counter to see how long it would
> take one of them to disappear. ;-)
>
> Cameras, guns and bikes get stolen faster than cash....
Well, none of the unlocked bikes in my apartment building common garage
have been stolen. Of course, they are all cheap Sprawl-Mart crap [1].
Mean while, my car has been damaged by neighbors/thieves, who stole my
fleece jacket and digital camera after forcing the trunk open.
[1] Including a pair of Roadmaster Mt. Fury bicycle-shaped objects -
must not be worth stealing?
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!
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Date: 19 Oct 2007 22:02:28
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: Theft (was: Reusing silver-brazed Nervex Lugs?)
|
"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:ffbbha$7uo$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> * * Chas wrote:
> > "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:ff9fj1$pjh$5@registered.motzarella.org...
> >> Andrew Muzi mused:
> >>> ...
> >>> Paramounts are not pinned and being silver are easier than most to
> > redo.
> >>> But given the extensive work here, it's marginal and if there's
chrome
> >>> it just doesn't make much sense.
> >>>
> >>> That never stops a determined guy, though:
> >>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/r43.html
> >> Too bad about the camera. They need to make a camera that takes out
the
> >> eye of thief that steals it.
> >>
> >
> > We had a big box full plastic banks that looked like Kodak Instamatic
> > cameras. We used to leave them set on the counter to see how long it
would
> > take one of them to disappear. ;-)
> >
> > Cameras, guns and bikes get stolen faster than cash....
>
> Well, none of the unlocked bikes in my apartment building common garage
> have been stolen. Of course, they are all cheap Sprawl-Mart crap [1].
>
> Mean while, my car has been damaged by neighbors/thieves, who stole my
> fleece jacket and digital camera after forcing the trunk open.
>
> [1] Including a pair of Roadmaster Mt. Fury bicycle-shaped objects -
> must not be worth stealing?
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!
Maybe they were so bad the thieves brought them back.... ;-)
Chas.
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Date: 18 Oct 2007 09:36:54
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: Reusing silver-brazed Nervex Lugs?
|
"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote in message
> > Try it if you're daring. Be certain the joints aren't pinned before
you
> > start pulling things otherwise you're in for a world of grief. If they
> > are pinned, drill out the pins before you start. You can fill the
holes
> > later when you replace the tubes.
>
> You got that right!
>
> Paramounts are not pinned and being silver are easier than most to redo.
> But given the extensive work here, it's marginal and if there's chrome
> it just doesn't make much sense.
>
> That never stops a determined guy, though:
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/r43.html
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Lazarus.....
Chas.
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Date: 18 Oct 2007 13:10:58
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Reusing silver-brazed Nervex Lugs?
|
>>> Try it if you're daring. Be certain the joints aren't pinned before
> you
>>> start pulling things otherwise you're in for a world of grief. If they
>>> are pinned, drill out the pins before you start. You can fill the
> holes
>>> later when you replace the tubes.
> "A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote
>> You got that right!
>> Paramounts are not pinned and being silver are easier than most to redo.
>> But given the extensive work here, it's marginal and if there's chrome
>> it just doesn't make much sense.
>> That never stops a determined guy, though:
>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/r43.html
* * Chas wrote:
> Lazarus.....
Lazarus indeed:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/3rh.html
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 16 Oct 2007 00:42:41
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Reusing silver-brazed Nervex Lugs?
|
On Oct 15, 4:36 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net > wrote:
> In article <13h7f0aqp3mv...@corp.supernews.com>,
> A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> > Jay Beattie wrote:
> > > Sell on eBay with ding. Get frame that fits. Buy a new Paramount-
> > > like Waterford, which would probably cost less than all of the work
> > > you are talking about. -- Jay Beattie.
>
> > Good advice! New ones are lighter, too:
> >http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfd953.jpg
>
> > and no pesky chrome when you need repairs in 40 years.
>
> 40 years! What kind of service life is that?!? I remember the old
> days, when men were men and so were the women, and things were built to
> last dammit! Rant rave grumble mumble piss moan...
Yeah. I just turned 40, and have several cosmetic
dings and rust spots and a busted joint (hopefully
if it fails, jim beam won't accuse me of failing to
follow manufacturer recommendations). Quite
disappointing. I'm thinking of turning myself in
for a refund.
Ben
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 13:29:54
From: philcycles
Subject: Re: Reusing silver-brazed Nervex Lugs?
|
Scott Gordo wrote:
> I've got a '75 Paramount track frame with 531 tubes, silver-brazed
> Nervex lugs, a top tube with a sizeable ding where the handlebars
> smacked it during a crash, and a BB that's cracked at the plug. It's
> also a tad big for me, by 2cm or so.
Lots snipped
The repairs you want, while possible, aren't really practical. I'd
look for another Paramount myself in the usual places, starting with
eBay and ending at the local track. I'll bet you find one. They were
always the most numerous track bikes.
Phil Brown
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 11:54:11
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: Reusing silver-brazed Nervex Lugs?
|
"Scott Gordo" <blubberpuss@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1192460654.652511.318700@e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> I've got a '75 Paramount track frame with 531 tubes, silver-brazed
> Nervex lugs, a top tube with a sizeable ding where the handlebars
> smacked it during a crash, and a BB that's cracked at the plug. It's
> also a tad big for me, by 2cm or so.
>
> I'm in the process of exploring my options. Obviously, I can
> pragmatically replace the frame with something cheap and fine.
> However, I'm entertaining the idea preserving what I can. Honestly,
> the more I think about it, the more ridiculous this whole thing
> sounds, but, if only for academics....
>
> If I could snap my fingers, say presto, and have the bike magically
> transformed, it would be:
>
> - 2cm shorter (both seat tube and top tube)
> - bb repaired
> - top tube repaired
>
> What I don't care much about is paint. It has already been resprayed
> (badly), and the bike spends too much time outside to be parade
> quality lookwise.
>
> So, in this magical transformation, the top and bottom tubes would
> shrink, the top tube's ding would be repaired. The seat tube would
> shrink, as would the head tube. The seat tubes would need to shrink,
> get new 'salami' cuts at the top, and the angle from the rear fork
> ends would need adjustment....
>
> Ridiculous.
>
> Or, I could have the lugs and fork ends removed, and have the frame
> rebuilt using new tubes....
>
> /s
>
Like the other posters have said, it can be done but.... shortening the
seat tube requires removing and rebrazing the seatstays and probably the
brake bridge as well as all of the other changes. I've seen this kind of
work done on rare classic frames and it IS expensive if done by a
competent frame builder.
The main tubes were probably put together with silver brazing alloy with a
melting temperature of 1450° F to 1650° F but the dropouts are usually
brazed in with a brass alloy that can have a melting temperature of 1750°
F to 1850° F.
Un-brazing thin wall steel tubing and lugs can be done but the remelting
temperature of the brazing alloys is considerably higher than the original
melting temperature. This is due to the eutectic point where certain
alloys have a lower original melting point than any of the constituent
elements.
At those high temperatures the steel tubing and/or lugs are extremely
fragile and can easily break from movement required to separate them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eutectic_point
You are probably way ahead by eBaying the frame - you'll probably get up
to $100 for it - and picking up another frame off of eBay. There's lots of
Paramount that come up for auction in the $300 - $600 range.
Good luck....
Chas.
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Date: 16 Oct 2007 06:07:56
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Reusing silver-brazed Nervex Lugs?
|
* * Chas wrote:
> "Scott Gordo" <blubberpuss@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1192460654.652511.318700@e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>> I've got a '75 Paramount track frame with 531 tubes, silver-brazed
>> Nervex lugs, a top tube with a sizeable ding where the handlebars
>> smacked it during a crash, and a BB that's cracked at the plug. It's
>> also a tad big for me, by 2cm or so.
>>
>> I'm in the process of exploring my options. Obviously, I can
>> pragmatically replace the frame with something cheap and fine.
>> However, I'm entertaining the idea preserving what I can. Honestly,
>> the more I think about it, the more ridiculous this whole thing
>> sounds, but, if only for academics....
>>
>> If I could snap my fingers, say presto, and have the bike magically
>> transformed, it would be:
>>
>> - 2cm shorter (both seat tube and top tube)
>> - bb repaired
>> - top tube repaired
>>
>> What I don't care much about is paint. It has already been resprayed
>> (badly), and the bike spends too much time outside to be parade
>> quality lookwise.
>>
>> So, in this magical transformation, the top and bottom tubes would
>> shrink, the top tube's ding would be repaired. The seat tube would
>> shrink, as would the head tube. The seat tubes would need to shrink,
>> get new 'salami' cuts at the top, and the angle from the rear fork
>> ends would need adjustment....
>>
>> Ridiculous.
>>
>> Or, I could have the lugs and fork ends removed, and have the frame
>> rebuilt using new tubes....
>>
>> /s
>>
>
> Like the other posters have said, it can be done but.... shortening the
> seat tube requires removing and rebrazing the seatstays and probably the
> brake bridge as well as all of the other changes. I've seen this kind of
> work done on rare classic frames and it IS expensive if done by a
> competent frame builder.
>
> The main tubes were probably put together with silver brazing alloy with a
> melting temperature of 1450� F to 1650� F but the dropouts are usually
> brazed in with a brass alloy that can have a melting temperature of 1750�
> F to 1850� F.
>
> Un-brazing thin wall steel tubing and lugs can be done but the remelting
> temperature of the brazing alloys is considerably higher than the original
> melting temperature. This is due to the eutectic point where certain
> alloys have a lower original melting point than any of the constituent
> elements.
rubbish. eutectic is the /lowest/ possible melting point for that alloy
system, and doesn't change. only way you can raise the temperature is
to overheat the original material and let one of the elements boil off
[but then it's not an eutectic any more], or have it cool so slowly that
there is significant segregation. a frame brazing is simply not massive
enough for that.
>
> At those high temperatures the steel tubing and/or lugs are extremely
> fragile and can easily break from movement required to separate them.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eutectic_point
read your own cite:
"A eutectic or eutectic mixture is a mixture at such proportions that
the melting point is as low as possible".
frames do indeed break subsequent to repair, but that's nothing to do
with some kind of "variable" eutectic point, it's simply overheating.
i also suggest you look up some basic properties of brazing alloys.
where you see a liquidus temp higher than a solidus temp, that means
it's /NOT/ an eutectic!
>
> You are probably way ahead by eBaying the frame - you'll probably get up
> to $100 for it - and picking up another frame off of eBay. There's lots of
> Paramount that come up for auction in the $300 - $600 range.
>
> Good luck....
>
> Chas.
>
>
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Date: 19 Oct 2007 00:27:52
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Reusing silver-brazed Nervex Lugs?
|
"jim beam" wrote:
> ...
> i also suggest you look up some basic properties of brazing alloys.
> where you see a liquidus temp higher than a solidus temp, that means
> it's /NOT/ an eutectic!...
Ah yes, the truism!
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!
|
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Date: 19 Oct 2007 12:18:04
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: Reusing silver-brazed Nervex Lugs?
|
"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:ff9f8q$pjh$4@registered.motzarella.org...
> "jim beam" wrote:
> > ...
> > i also suggest you look up some basic properties of brazing alloys.
> > where you see a liquidus temp higher than a solidus temp, that means
> > it's /NOT/ an eutectic!...
>
> Ah yes, the truism!
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!
Swapping spit with a rattlesnake, sword fighting with Zorro and mud
wrestling with a pig..... ;-)
Chas.
|
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 16:01:05
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Reusing silver-brazed Nervex Lugs?
|
> "Scott Gordo" <blubberpuss@gmail.com> wrote
>> I've got a '75 Paramount track frame with 531 tubes, silver-brazed
>> Nervex lugs, a top tube with a sizeable ding where the handlebars
>> smacked it during a crash, and a BB that's cracked at the plug. It's
>> also a tad big for me, by 2cm or so.
>>
>> I'm in the process of exploring my options. Obviously, I can
>> pragmatically replace the frame with something cheap and fine.
>> However, I'm entertaining the idea preserving what I can. Honestly,
>> the more I think about it, the more ridiculous this whole thing
>> sounds, but, if only for academics....
>> If I could snap my fingers, say presto, and have the bike magically
>> transformed, it would be:
>> - 2cm shorter (both seat tube and top tube)
>> - bb repaired
>> - top tube repaired
>> What I don't care much about is paint. It has already been resprayed
>> (badly), and the bike spends too much time outside to be parade
>> quality lookwise.
>> So, in this magical transformation, the top and bottom tubes would
>> shrink, the top tube's ding would be repaired. The seat tube would
>> shrink, as would the head tube. The seat tubes would need to shrink,
>> get new 'salami' cuts at the top, and the angle from the rear fork
>> ends would need adjustment....
>> Ridiculous.
>> Or, I could have the lugs and fork ends removed, and have the frame
>> rebuilt using new tubes....
* * Chas wrote:
> Like the other posters have said, it can be done but.... shortening the
> seat tube requires removing and rebrazing the seatstays and probably the
> brake bridge as well as all of the other changes. I've seen this kind of
> work done on rare classic frames and it IS expensive if done by a
> competent frame builder.
> The main tubes were probably put together with silver brazing alloy with a
> melting temperature of 1450° F to 1650° F but the dropouts are usually
> brazed in with a brass alloy that can have a melting temperature of 1750°
> F to 1850° F.
> Un-brazing thin wall steel tubing and lugs can be done but the remelting
> temperature of the brazing alloys is considerably higher than the original
> melting temperature. This is due to the eutectic point where certain
> alloys have a lower original melting point than any of the constituent
> elements.
> At those high temperatures the steel tubing and/or lugs are extremely
> fragile and can easily break from movement required to separate them.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eutectic_point
> You are probably way ahead by eBaying the frame - you'll probably get up
> to $100 for it - and picking up another frame off of eBay. There's lots of
> Paramount that come up for auction in the $300 - $600 range.
Reworking brass or silver brazed joints on a Reynolds 531 frame is not
specifically a problem. It's done clean and harmlessly with oxy-propane.
But all those things add up to more than a new or classic frame is
reasonably worth. Toss in any chrome and the project goes upside down fast.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 09:51:27
From: Donald Gillies
Subject: Re: Reusing silver-brazed Nervex Lugs?
|
here are some realistic choices :
1. bottom bracket replacement ($85 + alignment ($30) + shipping both
ways, franklin frames of ohio, http://home.alltel.net/franklinframe/ ).
He will heat up the BB, get the tubes out, and put in a new BB. This
is actually not difficult as the frame will flop all over the place
once the BB is gone. Then, have him bondo the top-tube ding and
repaint the frame - good as new. And, get a nitto top-tube protector
so it doesn't happen next time ...
2. Alternately, sell it to me really, really cheap (after all it's a
ruined frame, i sure hope it's my size), go on ebay, and buy one in
the size and color that you want.
3. nervex lugs are still available, but expensive ( > $100/set).
some places that have them are : (a) Richard Sachs, (b) Mercian
cycles, (c) Ebay sellers, sometimes (once every 3-4 months.)
4. Other alternatives (newvex, from richard sachs) look like nervex
but aren't 100% accurate. But, you can get stainless steel and polish
them, an advantage over nerves.
For choices (3) or (4), take these lugs to a frame builder of your
choice, have him copy the paramount but shrink down the sizing.
- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA, USA
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 09:39:52
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: Reusing silver-brazed Nervex Lugs?
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On Oct 15, 8:04 am, Scott Gordo <blubberp...@gmail.com > wrote:
> I've got a '75 Paramount track frame with 531 tubes, silver-brazed
> Nervex lugs, a top tube with a sizeable ding where the handlebars
> smacked it during a crash, and a BB that's cracked at the plug. It's
> also a tad big for me, by 2cm or so.
>
> I'm in the process of exploring my options. Obviously, I can
> pragmatically replace the frame with something cheap and fine.
> However, I'm entertaining the idea preserving what I can. Honestly,
> the more I think about it, the more ridiculous this whole thing
> sounds, but, if only for academics....
>
> If I could snap my fingers, say presto, and have the bike magically
> transformed, it would be:
>
> - 2cm shorter (both seat tube and top tube)
> - bb repaired
> - top tube repaired
>
> What I don't care much about is paint. It has already been resprayed
> (badly), and the bike spends too much time outside to be parade
> quality lookwise.
>
> So, in this magical transformation, the top and bottom tubes would
> shrink, the top tube's ding would be repaired. The seat tube would
> shrink, as would the head tube. The seat tubes would need to shrink,
> get new 'salami' cuts at the top, and the angle from the rear fork
> ends would need adjustment....
>
> Ridiculous.
>
> Or, I could have the lugs and fork ends removed, and have the frame
> rebuilt using new tubes....
Sell on eBay with ding. Get frame that fits. Buy a new Paramount-
like Waterford, which would probably cost less than all of the work
you are talking about. -- Jay Beattie.
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 14:15:54
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Reusing silver-brazed Nervex Lugs?
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> Scott Gordo <blubberp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've got a '75 Paramount track frame with 531 tubes, silver-brazed
>> Nervex lugs, a top tube with a sizeable ding where the handlebars
>> smacked it during a crash, and a BB that's cracked at the plug. It's
>> also a tad big for me, by 2cm or so.
>> I'm in the process of exploring my options. Obviously, I can
>> pragmatically replace the frame with something cheap and fine.
>> However, I'm entertaining the idea preserving what I can. Honestly,
>> the more I think about it, the more ridiculous this whole thing
>> sounds, but, if only for academics....
>> If I could snap my fingers, say presto, and have the bike magically
>> transformed, it would be:
>> - 2cm shorter (both seat tube and top tube)
>> - bb repaired
>> - top tube repaired
>> What I don't care much about is paint. It has already been resprayed
>> (badly), and the bike spends too much time outside to be parade
>> quality lookwise.
>> So, in this magical transformation, the top and bottom tubes would
>> shrink, the top tube's ding would be repaired. The seat tube would
>> shrink, as would the head tube. The seat tubes would need to shrink,
>> get new 'salami' cuts at the top, and the angle from the rear fork
>> ends would need adjustment....
>> Ridiculous.
>> Or, I could have the lugs and fork ends removed, and have the frame
>> rebuilt using new tubes....
Jay Beattie wrote:
> Sell on eBay with ding. Get frame that fits. Buy a new Paramount-
> like Waterford, which would probably cost less than all of the work
> you are talking about. -- Jay Beattie.
Good advice! New ones are lighter, too:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfd953.jpg
and no pesky chrome when you need repairs in 40 years.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 18:36:00
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Reusing silver-brazed Nervex Lugs?
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In article <13h7f0aqp3mv67d@corp.supernews.com >,
A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> Jay Beattie wrote:
> > Sell on eBay with ding. Get frame that fits. Buy a new Paramount-
> > like Waterford, which would probably cost less than all of the work
> > you are talking about. -- Jay Beattie.
>
> Good advice! New ones are lighter, too:
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfd953.jpg
>
> and no pesky chrome when you need repairs in 40 years.
40 years! What kind of service life is that?!? I remember the old
days, when men were men and so were the women, and things were built to
last dammit! Rant rave grumble mumble piss moan...
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 09:31:40
From: !Jones
Subject: Re: Reusing silver-brazed Nervex Lugs?
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On Oct 15, 10:04 am, Scott Gordo <blubberp...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Or, I could have the lugs and fork ends removed, and have the frame
> rebuilt using new tubes....
Bummer!
It *can* be done, I suppose. The bottom line is that it'll cost about
what a comparable frame would cost new... of course, it wouldn't be a
Paramount!
Since I ride a Paramount, I understand the appeal of these. We have a
'76 mixte tandem. There comes a point, though, where the cost of the
repair will outweigh the value of the bike and, IMO, you're about
there. But, yeah, a frame shop could clean up the lugs and reuse
them. At least silver breaks pretty cleanly at around 900 degrees or
so.
Jones
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