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Main
Date: 27 Jun 2007 13:38:44
From: BCDrums
Subject: Rim swap
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I put a flat spot in a wheel built with a Mavic MA40 rim, ERD=613. I
find that the Sun CR18 has an ERD of 612. Is there any reason that I
can't do a rim swap, just moving the old spokes over to the new rim?
Will that silly little millimeter make any difference?
Thanks!
BC
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 07:56:00
From: Gary Young
Subject: Re: Rim swap
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On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 08:30:12 -0400, BCDrums wrote:
> A Muzi wrote:
>>>>> BCDrums <bcdr...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>> I put a flat spot in a wheel built with a Mavic MA40 rim, ERD=613. I
>>>>>> find that the Sun CR18 has an ERD of 612. Is there any reason that I
>>>>>> can't do a rim swap, just moving the old spokes over to the new rim?
>>>>>> Will that silly little millimeter make any difference?
>>
>>>> landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Swap away.
>>
>>> Hank Wirtz wrote:
>>>> Are we sure they're the same "Handedness?" in other words, is the
>>>> spoke hole behind the valve stem offset in the same direction between
>>>> the two models? IIRC, I had a set of Sun M13Ls that were the opposite
>>>> of the Mavic Monthelerys they were replacing (I wasn't trying to reuse
>>>> spokes there, I was just examining the spoking pattern).
>>
>> BCDrums wrote:
>>> Could I not just turn the new rim over?
>>
>> Turning a rim over doesn't change chirality.
>
> Chirality?!? I had to look it up. A great word. (Thunderbird's spell
> checker suggest I replace it with "immorality")
>
>>
>> If they differ, you'd have to accept a result with which a wheelbuilder
>> wouldn't be comfortable - valve misplaced. Functionally OK but
>> aesthetically unacceptable.
>>
>> Either that or rebuild with new spokes. Rebuilding with used spokes
>> repositioned isn't a good choice.
>
> Well, I don't have the rim in hand. As I am looking to do this on the
> very cheap, I ordered a discontinued $10 Sun CR18 rim from Nashbar, and
> it's not yet here. I will be chagrined if I am forced to put the valve
> in the wrong place, but this bike gets very little use, and I can
> cha-grin and bear it. Plus, for the first time, people will look at my
> bike and say, "Hmmm...do you build your own wheels?"
>
> BC
On my CR-18s, the spoke immediately above the valve hole is to the right;
the spoke immediately below the valve hole, to the left.
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 18:41:47
From:
Subject: Re: Rim swap
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Gary Young writes:
> On my CR-18s, the spoke immediately above the valve hole is to the
> right; the spoke immediately below the valve hole, to the left.
Left and right handedness of rims can be viewed by visualizing a tape
around the spoke pair adjacent to the stem hole and noting whether it
advances as a left or right handed thread viewed from either side of
the wheel.
Jobst Brandt
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 12:22:26
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Rim swap
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On Jun 27, 11:38 am, BCDrums <bcdr...@comcast.net > wrote:
> I put a flat spot in a wheel built with a Mavic MA40 rim, ERD=613. I
> find that the Sun CR18 has an ERD of 612. Is there any reason that I
> can't do a rim swap, just moving the old spokes over to the new rim?
> Will that silly little millimeter make any difference?
>
> Thanks!
> BC
Nope....as long as the spokes are the correct length to start with.
Remember spokes are normally only + = 1mm anywho.
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 05:05:27
From: Calvin Jones
Subject: Re: Rim swap
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As a related aside, there is a useful spoke caluculator at http://bikeschool.com/
Look for "spoke calc" in the menu.
This one has a different option. You may enter the spokes you have in
stock, the hub you have, and it will give you the ERD of the rim to
use.
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 08:22:23
From: BCDrums
Subject: Re: Rim swap
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Calvin Jones wrote:
> As a related aside, there is a useful spoke caluculator at http://bikeschool.com/
> Look for "spoke calc" in the menu.
>
> This one has a different option. You may enter the spokes you have in
> stock, the hub you have, and it will give you the ERD of the rim to
> use.
>
I am glad to know this, but my spokes are in-wheel, rather than
in-stock! ;)f
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 04:54:20
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Rim swap
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On Jun 27, 11:30 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> >>> BCDrums <bcdr...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>> I put a flat spot in a wheel built with a Mavic MA40 rim, ERD=613. I
> >>>> find that the Sun CR18 has an ERD of 612. Is there any reason that I
> >>>> can't do a rim swap, just moving the old spokes over to the new rim?
> >>>> Will that silly little millimeter make any difference?
> >> landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Swap away.
> > Hank Wirtz wrote:
> >> Are we sure they're the same "Handedness?" in other words, is the
> >> spoke hole behind the valve stem offset in the same direction between
> >> the two models? IIRC, I had a set of Sun M13Ls that were the opposite
> >> of the Mavic Monthelerys they were replacing (I wasn't trying to reuse
> >> spokes there, I was just examining the spoking pattern).
> BCDrums wrote:
> > Could I not just turn the new rim over?
>
> Turning a rim over doesn't change chirality.
>
> If they differ, you'd have to accept a result with which a wheelbuilder
> wouldn't be comfortable - valve misplaced. Functionally OK but
> aesthetically unacceptable.
>
Andrew,
In this case the OP hints that it this isn't some sort of artful
restoration--so cringe and sit on your hands. ;-P
> Either that or rebuild with new spokes. Rebuilding with used spokes
> repositioned isn't a good choice.
>
I'm a really inexperienced wheelbuilder with only three under my belt,
but with far more rim swaps in my holster, and I fail to understand
how rotating the rim a bit to get the spoke holes to point right would
somehow create a spoke crisis. The valve hole would be a few cm's off
target, which is no big structural crime--what am I missing?
-Max
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 00:19:24
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Rim swap
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>>>>>> I put a flat spot in a wheel built with a Mavic MA40 rim, ERD=613. I
>>>>>> find that the Sun CR18 has an ERD of 612. Is there any reason that I
>>>>>> can't do a rim swap, just moving the old spokes over to the new rim?
>>>>>> Will that silly little millimeter make any difference?
>>>> landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Swap away.
>>> Hank Wirtz wrote:
>>>> Are we sure they're the same "Handedness?" in other words, is the
>>>> spoke hole behind the valve stem offset in the same direction between
>>>> the two models? IIRC, I had a set of Sun M13Ls that were the opposite
>>>> of the Mavic Monthelerys they were replacing (I wasn't trying to reuse
>>>> spokes there, I was just examining the spoking pattern).
>> BCDrums wrote:
>>> Could I not just turn the new rim over?
>> Turning a rim over doesn't change chirality.
>A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> If they differ, you'd have to accept a result with which a wheelbuilder
>> wouldn't be comfortable - valve misplaced. Functionally OK but
>> aesthetically unacceptable.
>> Either that or rebuild with new spokes. Rebuilding with used spokes
>> repositioned isn't a good choice.
landotter wrote:
> In this case the OP hints that it this isn't some sort of artful
> restoration--so cringe and sit on your hands. ;-P
> I'm a really inexperienced wheelbuilder with only three under my belt,
> but with far more rim swaps in my holster, and I fail to understand
> how rotating the rim a bit to get the spoke holes to point right would
> somehow create a spoke crisis. The valve hole would be a few cm's off
> target, which is no big structural crime--what am I missing?
You're right.
With the 'other' type rim, just move the rim so the valve is in the
'wrong' position and it will be functionally just fine.
(solutions to 'valve in wrong position' involve dysfunctional tradeoffs)
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 04:14:19
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Rim swap
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On Jun 27, 8:36 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Jun 27, 7:32 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 27, 7:22 pm, BCDrums <bcdr...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > > Hank Wirtz wrote:
> > > > On Jun 27, 11:19 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> On Jun 27, 12:38 pm, BCDrums <bcdr...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > > >>> I put a flat spot in a wheel built with a Mavic MA40 rim, ERD=613. I
> > > >>> find that the Sun CR18 has an ERD of 612. Is there any reason that I
> > > >>> can't do a rim swap, just moving the old spokes over to the new rim?
> > > >>> Will that silly little millimeter make any difference?
> > > >> Swap away.
>
> > > > Are we sure they're the same "Handedness?" in other words, is the
> > > > spoke hole behind the valve stem offset in the same direction between
> > > > the two models? IIRC, I had a set of Sun M13Ls that were the opposite
> > > > of the Mavic Monthelerys they were replacing (I wasn't trying to reuse
> > > > spokes there, I was just examining the spoking pattern).
>
> > > Could I not just turn the new rim over?
>
> > As long at the spoke holes point at the correct flanges you're good.
> > If you turned it over, you might mess up some of that rim label to hub
> > logo to QR relationship zen. :-P-
>
> You'll be forgiven that sin if you shellac your cloth bar tape. ;-)
That would be so beetle-esque!
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 18:36:20
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Rim swap
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On Jun 27, 7:32 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jun 27, 7:22 pm, BCDrums <bcdr...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hank Wirtz wrote:
> > > On Jun 27, 11:19 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> On Jun 27, 12:38 pm, BCDrums <bcdr...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > >>> I put a flat spot in a wheel built with a Mavic MA40 rim, ERD=613. I
> > >>> find that the Sun CR18 has an ERD of 612. Is there any reason that I
> > >>> can't do a rim swap, just moving the old spokes over to the new rim?
> > >>> Will that silly little millimeter make any difference?
> > >> Swap away.
>
> > > Are we sure they're the same "Handedness?" in other words, is the
> > > spoke hole behind the valve stem offset in the same direction between
> > > the two models? IIRC, I had a set of Sun M13Ls that were the opposite
> > > of the Mavic Monthelerys they were replacing (I wasn't trying to reuse
> > > spokes there, I was just examining the spoking pattern).
>
> > Could I not just turn the new rim over?
>
> As long at the spoke holes point at the correct flanges you're good.
> If you turned it over, you might mess up some of that rim label to hub
> logo to QR relationship zen. :-P-
You'll be forgiven that sin if you shellac your cloth bar tape. ;-)
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 17:32:33
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Rim swap
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On Jun 27, 7:22 pm, BCDrums <bcdr...@comcast.net > wrote:
> Hank Wirtz wrote:
> > On Jun 27, 11:19 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Jun 27, 12:38 pm, BCDrums <bcdr...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >>> I put a flat spot in a wheel built with a Mavic MA40 rim, ERD=613. I
> >>> find that the Sun CR18 has an ERD of 612. Is there any reason that I
> >>> can't do a rim swap, just moving the old spokes over to the new rim?
> >>> Will that silly little millimeter make any difference?
> >> Swap away.
>
> > Are we sure they're the same "Handedness?" in other words, is the
> > spoke hole behind the valve stem offset in the same direction between
> > the two models? IIRC, I had a set of Sun M13Ls that were the opposite
> > of the Mavic Monthelerys they were replacing (I wasn't trying to reuse
> > spokes there, I was just examining the spoking pattern).
>
> Could I not just turn the new rim over?
>
As long at the spoke holes point at the correct flanges you're good.
If you turned it over, you might mess up some of that rim label to hub
logo to QR relationship zen. :-P
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 21:59:38
From: BCDrums
Subject: Re: Rim swap
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landotter wrote:
>>> Are we sure they're the same "Handedness?" in other words, is the
>>> spoke hole behind the valve stem offset in the same direction between
>>> the two models? IIRC, I had a set of Sun M13Ls that were the opposite
>>> of the Mavic Monthelerys they were replacing (I wasn't trying to reuse
>>> spokes there, I was just examining the spoking pattern).
>> Could I not just turn the new rim over?
>>
> As long at the spoke holes point at the correct flanges you're good.
> If you turned it over, you might mess up some of that rim label to hub
> logo to QR relationship zen. :-P
>
Normally, I DO go for that Tire label/stem/QR stuff, but this is a
beater bike that gets little use, and I am looking to fix it on the
cheap. So compromises may be made...
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 23:16:11
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Rim swap
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On Jun 27, 5:57 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net > wrote:
> On Jun 27, 11:19 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 27, 12:38 pm, BCDrums <bcdr...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > > I put a flat spot in a wheel built with a Mavic MA40 rim, ERD=613. I
> > > find that the Sun CR18 has an ERD of 612. Is there any reason that I
> > > can't do a rim swap, just moving the old spokes over to the new rim?
> > > Will that silly little millimeter make any difference?
>
> > Swap away.
>
> Are we sure they're the same "Handedness?" in other words, is the
> spoke hole behind the valve stem offset in the same direction between
> the two models? IIRC, I had a set of Sun M13Ls that were the opposite
> of the Mavic Monthelerys they were replacing (I wasn't trying to reuse
> spokes there, I was just examining the spoking pattern).
I've dealt with the offset and actually laced up some part way during
a swap in the wrong holes, easy enough to turn the rim till the
offsets match, tape the two back together with electrical tape and
swap away.
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 15:57:00
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Rim swap
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On Jun 27, 11:19 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jun 27, 12:38 pm, BCDrums <bcdr...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > I put a flat spot in a wheel built with a Mavic MA40 rim, ERD=613. I
> > find that the Sun CR18 has an ERD of 612. Is there any reason that I
> > can't do a rim swap, just moving the old spokes over to the new rim?
> > Will that silly little millimeter make any difference?
>
> Swap away.
Are we sure they're the same "Handedness?" in other words, is the
spoke hole behind the valve stem offset in the same direction between
the two models? IIRC, I had a set of Sun M13Ls that were the opposite
of the Mavic Monthelerys they were replacing (I wasn't trying to reuse
spokes there, I was just examining the spoking pattern).
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 20:22:43
From: BCDrums
Subject: Re: Rim swap
|
Hank Wirtz wrote:
> On Jun 27, 11:19 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jun 27, 12:38 pm, BCDrums <bcdr...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I put a flat spot in a wheel built with a Mavic MA40 rim, ERD=613. I
>>> find that the Sun CR18 has an ERD of 612. Is there any reason that I
>>> can't do a rim swap, just moving the old spokes over to the new rim?
>>> Will that silly little millimeter make any difference?
>> Swap away.
>
> Are we sure they're the same "Handedness?" in other words, is the
> spoke hole behind the valve stem offset in the same direction between
> the two models? IIRC, I had a set of Sun M13Ls that were the opposite
> of the Mavic Monthelerys they were replacing (I wasn't trying to reuse
> spokes there, I was just examining the spoking pattern).
>
Could I not just turn the new rim over?
BC
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 23:30:42
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Rim swap
|
>>> BCDrums <bcdr...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> I put a flat spot in a wheel built with a Mavic MA40 rim, ERD=613. I
>>>> find that the Sun CR18 has an ERD of 612. Is there any reason that I
>>>> can't do a rim swap, just moving the old spokes over to the new rim?
>>>> Will that silly little millimeter make any difference?
>> landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Swap away.
> Hank Wirtz wrote:
>> Are we sure they're the same "Handedness?" in other words, is the
>> spoke hole behind the valve stem offset in the same direction between
>> the two models? IIRC, I had a set of Sun M13Ls that were the opposite
>> of the Mavic Monthelerys they were replacing (I wasn't trying to reuse
>> spokes there, I was just examining the spoking pattern).
BCDrums wrote:
> Could I not just turn the new rim over?
Turning a rim over doesn't change chirality.
If they differ, you'd have to accept a result with which a wheelbuilder
wouldn't be comfortable - valve misplaced. Functionally OK but
aesthetically unacceptable.
Either that or rebuild with new spokes. Rebuilding with used spokes
repositioned isn't a good choice.
If you plan a 'rim swap', first do as Hank suggests - check that they
are both pierced in the same pattern.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 08:30:12
From: BCDrums
Subject: Re: Rim swap
|
A Muzi wrote:
>>>> BCDrums <bcdr...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>> I put a flat spot in a wheel built with a Mavic MA40 rim, ERD=613. I
>>>>> find that the Sun CR18 has an ERD of 612. Is there any reason that I
>>>>> can't do a rim swap, just moving the old spokes over to the new rim?
>>>>> Will that silly little millimeter make any difference?
>
>>> landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Swap away.
>
>> Hank Wirtz wrote:
>>> Are we sure they're the same "Handedness?" in other words, is the
>>> spoke hole behind the valve stem offset in the same direction between
>>> the two models? IIRC, I had a set of Sun M13Ls that were the opposite
>>> of the Mavic Monthelerys they were replacing (I wasn't trying to reuse
>>> spokes there, I was just examining the spoking pattern).
>
> BCDrums wrote:
>> Could I not just turn the new rim over?
>
> Turning a rim over doesn't change chirality.
Chirality?!? I had to look it up. A great word. (Thunderbird's spell
checker suggest I replace it with "immorality")
>
> If they differ, you'd have to accept a result with which a wheelbuilder
> wouldn't be comfortable - valve misplaced. Functionally OK but
> aesthetically unacceptable.
>
> Either that or rebuild with new spokes. Rebuilding with used spokes
> repositioned isn't a good choice.
Well, I don't have the rim in hand. As I am looking to do this on the
very cheap, I ordered a discontinued $10 Sun CR18 rim from Nashbar, and
it's not yet here. I will be chagrined if I am forced to put the valve
in the wrong place, but this bike gets very little use, and I can
cha-grin and bear it. Plus, for the first time, people will look at my
bike and say, "Hmmm...do you build your own wheels?"
BC
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 23:00:26
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Rim swap
|
In article
<zLadnfkZY6VLNB7bnZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@comcast.com >,
BCDrums <bcdrums@comcast.net > wrote:
> A Muzi wrote:
> >>>> BCDrums <bcdr...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>>> I put a flat spot in a wheel built with a Mavic MA40 rim, ERD=613. I
> >>>>> find that the Sun CR18 has an ERD of 612. Is there any reason that I
> >>>>> can't do a rim swap, just moving the old spokes over to the new rim?
> >>>>> Will that silly little millimeter make any difference?
> >
> >>> landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Swap away.
> >
> >> Hank Wirtz wrote:
> >>> Are we sure they're the same "Handedness?" in other words, is the
> >>> spoke hole behind the valve stem offset in the same direction between
> >>> the two models? IIRC, I had a set of Sun M13Ls that were the opposite
> >>> of the Mavic Monthelerys they were replacing (I wasn't trying to reuse
> >>> spokes there, I was just examining the spoking pattern).
> >
> > BCDrums wrote:
> >> Could I not just turn the new rim over?
> >
> > Turning a rim over doesn't change chirality.
>
> Chirality?!? I had to look it up. A great word. (Thunderbird's spell
> checker suggest I replace it with "immorality")
>
> >
> > If they differ, you'd have to accept a result with which a wheelbuilder
> > wouldn't be comfortable - valve misplaced. Functionally OK but
> > aesthetically unacceptable.
> >
> > Either that or rebuild with new spokes. Rebuilding with used spokes
> > repositioned isn't a good choice.
>
> Well, I don't have the rim in hand. As I am looking to do this on the
> very cheap, I ordered a discontinued $10 Sun CR18 rim from Nashbar, and
> it's not yet here. I will be chagrined if I am forced to put the valve
> in the wrong place, but this bike gets very little use, and I can
> cha-grin and bear it. Plus, for the first time, people will look at my
> bike and say, "Hmmm...do you build your own wheels?"
Here is the orientation on the CR-18
o
O
o
--
Michael Press
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| | | | | | |
Date: 28 Jun 2007 23:18:01
From:
Subject: Re: Rim swap
|
Michael Press writes:
> Here is the orientation on the CR-18
> o
> O
> o
... as seen from looking down at the inside of the rim with the valve
hole at the bottom, or is this when looking down at the outside of the
rim with the valve hole at the top?
As I said:
# Left- and right-handedness of rims can be viewed by visualizing a
# tape around the spoke pair adjacent to the stem hole and noting
# whether it advances as a left or right handed thread viewed from
# either side of the wheel.
Other descriptions involve too many qualifications to make sense.
Jobst Brandt
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| | | |
Date: 28 Jun 2007 01:34:55
From:
Subject: Re: Rim swap
|
Bill C Drums writes:
>>>> I put a flat spot in a wheel built with a Mavic MA40 rim,
>>>> ERD=613. I find that the Sun CR18 has an ERD of 612. Is there
>>>> any reason that I can't do a rim swap, just moving the old spokes
>>>> over to the new rim? Will that silly little millimeter make any
>>>> difference?
If the spokes are flush with the top of the spoke nipples on the old
rim then they will protrude 0.5mm on the new one. If that is where
these spokes are now, it presents no problem. If the spokes are
presently not flush with the end of the spoke nipples, it's evan
better.
>>> Swap away.
>> Are we sure they're the same "Handedness?" in other words, is the
>> spoke hole behind the valve stem offset in the same direction
>> between the two models? IIRC, I had a set of Sun M13Ls that were
>> the opposite of the Mavic Monthelerys they were replacing (I wasn't
>> trying to reuse spokes there, I was just examining the spoking
>> pattern).
> Could I not just turn the new rim over?
It's like turning a right hand threaded shaft around. It is still a
right hand thread regardless of which end is front.
Jobst Brandt
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 18:19:20
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Rim swap
|
On Jun 27, 12:38 pm, BCDrums <bcdr...@comcast.net > wrote:
> I put a flat spot in a wheel built with a Mavic MA40 rim, ERD=613. I
> find that the Sun CR18 has an ERD of 612. Is there any reason that I
> can't do a rim swap, just moving the old spokes over to the new rim?
> Will that silly little millimeter make any difference?
Swap away.
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 04:05:44
From: daveornee
Subject: Re: Rim swap
|
BCDrums Wrote:
> I put a flat spot in a wheel built with a Mavic MA40 rim, ERD=613. I
> find that the Sun CR18 has an ERD of 612. Is there any reason that I
> can't do a rim swap, just moving the old spokes over to the new rim?
> Will that silly little millimeter make any difference?
>
> Thanks!
> BC
No problem, as long as spokes are not bottoming out on thier threads
now.
Is there thread left at the bottom (Slotted End) of the nipple now.
You will only need a few turns more.... less than 1/2 mm.
--
daveornee
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