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Main
Date: 05 Jun 2007 02:01:21
From: DougA
Subject: Ritchey 1" Steel Fork?
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I recently built up a Ritchey SwissCross frame with its original 1 inch
steel fork. At the price of the frame it must be ChrMo?
I love the bike but my forearms are taking a pounding over bumpy ashphalt.
Would a carbon bar, stem or fork easy my pain?
douga
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Date: 07 Jun 2007 08:15:19
From: Gary Young
Subject: Re: Ritchey 1" Steel Fork?
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On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 06:12:46 -0700, jim beam wrote:
> Gary Young wrote:
>> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 05:53:12 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>>
>>> Gary Young wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 20:03:03 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> DougA wrote:
>>>>>> I recently built up a Ritchey SwissCross frame with its original 1 inch
>>>>>> steel fork. At the price of the frame it must be ChrMo?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I love the bike but my forearms are taking a pounding over bumpy ashphalt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would a carbon bar, stem or fork easy my pain?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> douga
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> a little. but running a 1" steerer tube in anything other than steel
>>>>> can be sketchy. 1" carbon tends to be too flexible, 1" aluminum
>>>>> alarmingly so.
>>>>>
>>>> I'm surprised to hear you say so, given that your position in other
>>>> threads has been that the curl of a fork at the ends is a more important
>>>> factor in a fork's flexibility than bending at the fork crown.
>>> doug asked: "Would a carbon bar, stem or fork easy my pain?" to which i
>>> replied: "a little". since the question addresses material, "carbon",
>>> why should my response address anything else?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> To be more exact, his question was about a carbon fork, not necessarily
>> about what material the steerer is made of.
>
> er, read the op's post one more time gary.
OK, done. Mentions carbon fork but not the steerer material. Are you not
aware that carbon forks come with various steerer materials?
>
>
>> That's something you brought
>> up. The fact that you did so suggests that you are inconsistent in the
>> importance you give to bending at the crown versus the curl of the fork
>> end. Regardless of whether the OP brought it up or not, I'd like to
>> hear your thoughts on which is more important and why.
>
> below a certain comprehension threshold, answers become a complete waste
> of freakin' time.
>
In other words, you don't have a good answer.
>
>
>>>>> try experimenting with carbon handlebars and double-wrap bar tape if
>>>>> you can't get an appropriate carbon fork.
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Date: 07 Jun 2007 20:28:31
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Ritchey 1" Steel Fork?
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Gary Young wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 06:12:46 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>
>> Gary Young wrote:
>>> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 05:53:12 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>>>
>>>> Gary Young wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 20:03:03 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> DougA wrote:
>>>>>>> I recently built up a Ritchey SwissCross frame with its original 1 inch
>>>>>>> steel fork. At the price of the frame it must be ChrMo?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I love the bike but my forearms are taking a pounding over bumpy ashphalt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would a carbon bar, stem or fork easy my pain?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> douga
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> a little. but running a 1" steerer tube in anything other than steel
>>>>>> can be sketchy. 1" carbon tends to be too flexible, 1" aluminum
>>>>>> alarmingly so.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I'm surprised to hear you say so, given that your position in other
>>>>> threads has been that the curl of a fork at the ends is a more important
>>>>> factor in a fork's flexibility than bending at the fork crown.
>>>> doug asked: "Would a carbon bar, stem or fork easy my pain?" to which i
>>>> replied: "a little". since the question addresses material, "carbon",
>>>> why should my response address anything else?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> To be more exact, his question was about a carbon fork, not necessarily
>>> about what material the steerer is made of.
>> er, read the op's post one more time gary.
>
>
> OK, done. Mentions carbon fork but not the steerer material. Are you not
> aware that carbon forks come with various steerer materials?
>
>>
>>> That's something you brought
>>> up. The fact that you did so suggests that you are inconsistent in the
>>> importance you give to bending at the crown versus the curl of the fork
>>> end. Regardless of whether the OP brought it up or not, I'd like to
>>> hear your thoughts on which is more important and why.
>> below a certain comprehension threshold, answers become a complete waste
>> of freakin' time.
>>
>
> In other words, you don't have a good answer.
i have many good answers gary, but not for someone that's got conceptual
issues preventing them from differentiating between form and substance.
>
>>
>>>>>> try experimenting with carbon handlebars and double-wrap bar tape if
>>>>>> you can't get an appropriate carbon fork.
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Date: 07 Jun 2007 08:01:15
From: Gary Young
Subject: Re: Ritchey 1" Steel Fork?
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On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 05:53:12 -0700, jim beam wrote:
> Gary Young wrote:
>> On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 20:03:03 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>>
>>> DougA wrote:
>>>> I recently built up a Ritchey SwissCross frame with its original 1 inch
>>>> steel fork. At the price of the frame it must be ChrMo?
>>>>
>>>> I love the bike but my forearms are taking a pounding over bumpy ashphalt.
>>>>
>>>> Would a carbon bar, stem or fork easy my pain?
>>>>
>>>> douga
>>>>
>>>>
>>> a little. but running a 1" steerer tube in anything other than steel
>>> can be sketchy. 1" carbon tends to be too flexible, 1" aluminum
>>> alarmingly so.
>>>
>>
>> I'm surprised to hear you say so, given that your position in other
>> threads has been that the curl of a fork at the ends is a more important
>> factor in a fork's flexibility than bending at the fork crown.
>
> doug asked: "Would a carbon bar, stem or fork easy my pain?" to which i
> replied: "a little". since the question addresses material, "carbon",
> why should my response address anything else?
>
>
To be more exact, his question was about a carbon fork, not necessarily
about what material the steerer is made of. That's something you brought
up. The fact that you did so suggests that you are inconsistent in the
importance you give to bending at the crown versus the curl of the fork
end. Regardless of whether the OP brought it up or not, I'd like to hear
your thoughts on which is more important and why.
>>
>>> try experimenting with carbon handlebars and double-wrap bar tape if you
>>> can't get an appropriate carbon fork.
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Date: 07 Jun 2007 06:12:46
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Ritchey 1" Steel Fork?
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Gary Young wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 05:53:12 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>
>> Gary Young wrote:
>>> On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 20:03:03 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>>>
>>>> DougA wrote:
>>>>> I recently built up a Ritchey SwissCross frame with its original 1 inch
>>>>> steel fork. At the price of the frame it must be ChrMo?
>>>>>
>>>>> I love the bike but my forearms are taking a pounding over bumpy ashphalt.
>>>>>
>>>>> Would a carbon bar, stem or fork easy my pain?
>>>>>
>>>>> douga
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> a little. but running a 1" steerer tube in anything other than steel
>>>> can be sketchy. 1" carbon tends to be too flexible, 1" aluminum
>>>> alarmingly so.
>>>>
>>> I'm surprised to hear you say so, given that your position in other
>>> threads has been that the curl of a fork at the ends is a more important
>>> factor in a fork's flexibility than bending at the fork crown.
>> doug asked: "Would a carbon bar, stem or fork easy my pain?" to which i
>> replied: "a little". since the question addresses material, "carbon",
>> why should my response address anything else?
>>
>>
>
> To be more exact, his question was about a carbon fork, not necessarily
> about what material the steerer is made of.
er, read the op's post one more time gary.
> That's something you brought
> up. The fact that you did so suggests that you are inconsistent in the
> importance you give to bending at the crown versus the curl of the fork
> end. Regardless of whether the OP brought it up or not, I'd like to hear
> your thoughts on which is more important and why.
below a certain comprehension threshold, answers become a complete waste
of freakin' time.
>
>>>> try experimenting with carbon handlebars and double-wrap bar tape if you
>>>> can't get an appropriate carbon fork.
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Date: 07 Jun 2007 06:43:20
From: Gary Young
Subject: Re: Ritchey 1" Steel Fork?
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On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 20:03:03 -0700, jim beam wrote:
> DougA wrote:
>> I recently built up a Ritchey SwissCross frame with its original 1 inch
>> steel fork. At the price of the frame it must be ChrMo?
>>
>> I love the bike but my forearms are taking a pounding over bumpy ashphalt.
>>
>> Would a carbon bar, stem or fork easy my pain?
>>
>> douga
>>
>>
> a little. but running a 1" steerer tube in anything other than steel
> can be sketchy. 1" carbon tends to be too flexible, 1" aluminum
> alarmingly so.
>
I'm surprised to hear you say so, given that your position in other
threads has been that the curl of a fork at the ends is a more important
factor in a fork's flexibility than bending at the fork crown.
> try experimenting with carbon handlebars and double-wrap bar tape if you
> can't get an appropriate carbon fork.
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Date: 07 Jun 2007 05:53:12
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Ritchey 1" Steel Fork?
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Gary Young wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 20:03:03 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>
>> DougA wrote:
>>> I recently built up a Ritchey SwissCross frame with its original 1 inch
>>> steel fork. At the price of the frame it must be ChrMo?
>>>
>>> I love the bike but my forearms are taking a pounding over bumpy ashphalt.
>>>
>>> Would a carbon bar, stem or fork easy my pain?
>>>
>>> douga
>>>
>>>
>> a little. but running a 1" steerer tube in anything other than steel
>> can be sketchy. 1" carbon tends to be too flexible, 1" aluminum
>> alarmingly so.
>>
>
> I'm surprised to hear you say so, given that your position in other
> threads has been that the curl of a fork at the ends is a more important
> factor in a fork's flexibility than bending at the fork crown.
doug asked: "Would a carbon bar, stem or fork easy my pain?" to which i
replied: "a little". since the question addresses material, "carbon",
why should my response address anything else?
>
>> try experimenting with carbon handlebars and double-wrap bar tape if you
>> can't get an appropriate carbon fork.
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Date: 07 Jun 2007 04:01:18
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Ritchey 1" Steel Fork?
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On Jun 6, 3:07 pm, "DougA" <d...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I should have mentioned that I am running 23c tires at 120 psi--the speed
> and rolling resistance is not something that I will compromise on.
The "speed and rolling resistance" may not be what you think they are.
If you can borrow/try some wider tires, or a set of wheels fitted with
wider tires, do so. Run the wider tires at a lower pressure.
Or just try lowering the pressure in your extant front tire. If you
can get by (i.e., no pinch flats) with 120PSI in the rear, you do not
need 120PSI in the front. Try 105, see how it feels.
> I have
> spoke to our LBS and they are going to install Specialized Bar Phat for me.
> I have my fingers crossed...
>
> "Chalo" <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1181159075.529567.119000@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > DougA wrote:
>
> >> I recently built up a Ritchey SwissCross frame with its original 1 inch
> >> steel fork. At the price of the frame it must be ChrMo?
>
> >> I love the bike but my forearms are taking a pounding over bumpy
> >> ashphalt.
>
> >> Would a carbon bar, stem or fork easy my pain?
>
> > Not as well as 35-38mm tires with 60psi. You'd be surprised how fast
> > tires can be when they're not jolting you, too.
>
> > Chalo- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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Date: 07 Jun 2007 03:42:42
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Ritchey 1" Steel Fork?
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DougA wrote:
> >> I love the bike but my forearms are taking a pounding over bumpy
> >> ashphalt.
and
> I should have mentioned that I am running 23c tires at 120 psi--the speed
> and rolling resistance is not something that I will compromise on.
Have you considered where the energy to pound your forearms is coming
from? That's right, your forward motion. Hard tires are fastest on
very smooth, unbroken surfaces, but on surfaces that could be
described as "bumpy asphalt", you lose more speed by getting kidney
punched than you would from the rolling resistance in fatter, softer
tires.
Consider that MTB racers can run whatever pressures they want in the
pursuit of winning races, but they usually use between 25-45psi if
their bikes are unsuspended. A compliant tire can restore most of a
bump's energy to your forward motion, but an uncompliant tire sinks
that energy by jolting it into your body.
Your arms are an indicator of wasted energy-- you can go faster with
softer tires. Take it or leave it, but don't fool yourself.
Chalo
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Date: 06 Jun 2007 13:52:00
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Ritchey 1" Steel Fork?
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On Jun 6, 3:07 pm, "DougA" <d...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I should have mentioned that I am running 23c tires at 120 psi--the speed
> and rolling resistance is not something that I will compromise on.
Are you racing? If not, enjoy the petard.
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Date: 06 Jun 2007 19:44:35
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Ritchey 1" Steel Fork?
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DougA wrote:
>
> I recently built up a Ritchey SwissCross frame with its original 1 inch
> steel fork. At the price of the frame it must be ChrMo?
>
> I love the bike but my forearms are taking a pounding over bumpy ashphalt.
>
> Would a carbon bar, stem or fork easy my pain?
Not as well as 35-38mm tires with 60psi. You'd be surprised how fast
tires can be when they're not jolting you, too.
Chalo
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Date: 06 Jun 2007 20:07:32
From: DougA
Subject: Re: Ritchey 1" Steel Fork?
|
I should have mentioned that I am running 23c tires at 120 psi--the speed
and rolling resistance is not something that I will compromise on. I have
spoke to our LBS and they are going to install Specialized Bar Phat for me.
I have my fingers crossed...
"Chalo" <chalo.colina@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1181159075.529567.119000@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> DougA wrote:
>>
>> I recently built up a Ritchey SwissCross frame with its original 1 inch
>> steel fork. At the price of the frame it must be ChrMo?
>>
>> I love the bike but my forearms are taking a pounding over bumpy
>> ashphalt.
>>
>> Would a carbon bar, stem or fork easy my pain?
>
> Not as well as 35-38mm tires with 60psi. You'd be surprised how fast
> tires can be when they're not jolting you, too.
>
> Chalo
>
>
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Date: 04 Jun 2007 23:12:54
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Ritchey 1" Steel Fork?
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DougA wrote:
> I recently built up a Ritchey SwissCross frame with its original 1 inch
> steel fork. At the price of the frame it must be ChrMo?
>
> I love the bike but my forearms are taking a pounding over bumpy ashphalt.
>
> Would a carbon bar, stem or fork easy my pain?
Or a wider tire.
Or change your riding position to have less pressure on your hands.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 04 Jun 2007 20:38:46
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Ritchey 1" Steel Fork?
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On Jun 4, 9:01 pm, "DougA" <d...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> I recently built up a Ritchey SwissCross frame with its original 1 inch
> steel fork. At the price of the frame it must be ChrMo?
>
> I love the bike but my forearms are taking a pounding over bumpy ashphalt.
>
> Would a carbon bar, stem or fork easy my pain?
Getting your bars higher is often a good fix. Are the bars pretty low
now? Tire size and pressure are also worth reconsidering.
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Date: 04 Jun 2007 20:03:03
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Ritchey 1" Steel Fork?
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DougA wrote:
> I recently built up a Ritchey SwissCross frame with its original 1 inch
> steel fork. At the price of the frame it must be ChrMo?
>
> I love the bike but my forearms are taking a pounding over bumpy ashphalt.
>
> Would a carbon bar, stem or fork easy my pain?
>
> douga
>
>
a little. but running a 1" steerer tube in anything other than steel
can be sketchy. 1" carbon tends to be too flexible, 1" aluminum
alarmingly so.
try experimenting with carbon handlebars and double-wrap bar tape if you
can't get an appropriate carbon fork.
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Date: 05 Jun 2007 13:31:01
From: dvt
Subject: Re: Ritchey 1" Steel Fork?
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jim beam wrote:
> a little. but running a 1" steerer tube in anything other than steel
> can be sketchy. 1" carbon tends to be too flexible, 1" aluminum
> alarmingly so.
How would that flex manifest itself? I think my bike with 1" aluminum
steer tube is stiffer than my bike with a 1 1/8" steel steer tube, but
there are obviously other factors at play that make it tough to isolate
the effect of the steer tube.
--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu
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Date: 05 Jun 2007 19:27:22
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Ritchey 1" Steel Fork?
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dvt wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> a little. but running a 1" steerer tube in anything other than steel
>> can be sketchy. 1" carbon tends to be too flexible, 1" aluminum
>> alarmingly so.
>
> How would that flex manifest itself? I think my bike with 1" aluminum
> steer tube is stiffer than my bike with a 1 1/8" steel steer tube, but
> there are obviously other factors at play that make it tough to isolate
> the effect of the steer tube.
>
it's apparent if you try different forks in the same frame, which is
what i did. all-time worst was the reynolds. i now use an old look
with steel steerer. superb. another good feeling one was the kestrel,
also with steel steerer. unfortunately the chinese ones start to crack
in no time.
a good comparative test is to sit the top tube, hold the brake and rock
back and forth. doing that test with the wheel at 90 degrees is
interesting too. lateral wheel flex comes into it of course, but if you
use the same wheel, and difference is all fork. interesting differences.
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Date: 06 Jun 2007 08:54:51
From: dvt
Subject: Re: Ritchey 1" Steel Fork?
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jim beam wrote:
> dvt wrote:
>> jim beam wrote:
>>> a little. but running a 1" steerer tube in anything other than steel
>>> can be sketchy. 1" carbon tends to be too flexible, 1" aluminum
>>> alarmingly so.
>>
>> How would that flex manifest itself? I think my bike with 1" aluminum
>> steer tube is stiffer than my bike with a 1 1/8" steel steer tube, but
>> there are obviously other factors at play that make it tough to
>> isolate the effect of the steer tube.
>>
> it's apparent if you try different forks in the same frame, which is
> what i did. all-time worst was the reynolds. i now use an old look
> with steel steerer. superb. another good feeling one was the kestrel,
> also with steel steerer. unfortunately the chinese ones start to crack
> in no time.
I don't have more than one fork to use, and I don't think it's worth my
time to run the experiment. So I guess I'll never know unless my current
fork poops out.
My fork is an Easton EC50 or something like that. It's the cheapest
Easton from several years back. I'm surprised that flexibility in the
steer tube would be quite noticeable, since it's braced at the top and
bottom by the headset. The steer tube of the Easton has a much thicker
wall than any steel steer tube I've used, but wall thickness isn't as
important as modulus and OD when you calculate the bending stiffness of
the tube.
> a good comparative test is to sit the top tube, hold the brake and
> rock back and forth. doing that test with the wheel at 90 degrees is
> interesting too. lateral wheel flex comes into it of course, but if
> you use the same wheel, and difference is all fork. interesting
> differences.
Funny... I was doing that at a stoplight this morning on my commuter
bike (steel frame & fork) prior to reading your post. That bike has a
lot of flex during that test. I think my carbon fork/aluminum
steerer/aluminum frame bike has less front end flex, but there are
plenty of other differences too (i.e. fatter tyres on the commuter bike).
--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu
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