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Main
Date: 07 Jul 2007 05:51:19
From: damyth
Subject: Road paint and rolling resistance?
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Generally speaking, in dry weather, would the paint stripe (say the
paint line demarcating the bike lane from road traffic) provide lower
rolling resistance than plain asphalt?
Paint stripes are as slippery in the wet (generally more so than
asphalt), I'm just wondering if this implies lower rolling resistance
as well for drier conditions.
Or stated another way, would an individual's total time in a time
trial be reduced if he rode almost all the time on the painted line
rather than the asphalt?
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 21:29:54
From: Zog The Undeniable
Subject: Re: Road paint and rolling resistance?
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damyth wrote:
> Generally speaking, in dry weather, would the paint stripe (say the
> paint line demarcating the bike lane from road traffic) provide lower
> rolling resistance than plain asphalt?
>
> Paint stripes are as slippery in the wet (generally more so than
> asphalt), I'm just wondering if this implies lower rolling resistance
> as well for drier conditions.
>
> Or stated another way, would an individual's total time in a time
> trial be reduced if he rode almost all the time on the painted line
> rather than the asphalt?
>
Yes - in fact, I follow them myself in time trials, where they're
available and don't pass over every storm drain.
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Date: 08 Jul 2007 23:33:52
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Road paint and rolling resistance?
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does sheeet float or what? do bear sheeet in the woods? does water run
up hill in DC? did bees make honey? do you need a weatherman? does
your doctor know?
are paint strips an enoorrmoliurous PITA?
CONSIDER! energy losses from motions not in the desired line of
travel.
THINK! of your last ride on an unbalanced, untruely wheel with a hop
in it.
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Date: 08 Jul 2007 10:42:55
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Road paint and rolling resistance?
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On Jul 8, 1:21 am, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> >> "damyth" <mdk.10.dam...@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message
> >>news:1183812679.099897.199680@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >>> Generally speaking, in dry weather, would the paint stripe (say the
> >>> paint line demarcating the bike lane from road traffic) provide lower
> >>> rolling resistance than plain asphalt?
> >>> Paint stripes are as slippery in the wet (generally more so than
> >>> asphalt), I'm just wondering if this implies lower rolling resistance
> >>> as well for drier conditions.
> >>> Or stated another way, would an individual's total time in a time
> >>> trial be reduced if he rode almost all the time on the painted line
> >>> rather than the asphalt?
> > "Gary Jacobson" <gjacob...@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
> >> Yes. The more consistent surface results in less vibration and that means
> >> less loss of energy. At least that is what I've read and perceived myself,
> >> and it makes sense.
> joseph.santanie...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I've wondered if the sharp transition from paint to no-paint on dashed
> > lines creates more resistance tnan the smooth paint saves. In other
> > words, is it worth trying to ride on dashed lines (say 2m paint, 1m no
> > paint, 2m paint, etc), or just solid ones?
>
> I can't believe _you_ asked that.
> --
> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
What am I missing? Am I so crazy I have no idea how crazy I am?
Joseph
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Date: 08 Jul 2007 01:00:55
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Road paint and rolling resistance?
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On Jul 7, 8:58 pm, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr > wrote:
> Dans le message denews:1183832744.370197.186890@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.=
com,
> joseph.santanie...@gmail.com <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> a r=E9fl=E9ch=
i, et
> puis a d=E9clar=E9 :
>
>
>
> > On Jul 7, 8:08 pm, Lou Holtman <lholremovet...@planet.nl> wrote:
> >> joseph.santanie...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Jul 7, 4:33 pm, "Gary Jacobson" <gjacob...@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
> >>>> "damyth" <mdk.10.dam...@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message
>
> >>>>news:1183812679.099897.199680@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>>>> Generally speaking, in dry weather, would the paint stripe (say
> >>>>> the paint line demarcating the bike lane from road traffic)
> >>>>> provide lower rolling resistance than plain asphalt?
> >>>>> Paint stripes are as slippery in the wet (generally more so than
> >>>>> asphalt), I'm just wondering if this implies lower rolling
> >>>>> resistance as well for drier conditions.
> >>>>> Or stated another way, would an individual's total time in a time
> >>>>> trial be reduced if he rode almost all the time on the painted
> >>>>> line rather than the asphalt?
> >>>> Yes. The more consistent surface results in less vibration and
> >>>> that means less loss of energy. At least that is what I've read
> >>>> and perceived myself, and it makes sense.
>
> >>>> Gary Jacobson
> >>>> Rosendale, NY
>
> >>> I've wondered if the sharp transition from paint to no-paint on
> >>> dashed lines creates more resistance tnan the smooth paint saves.
> >>> In other words, is it worth trying to ride on dashed lines (say 2m
> >>> paint, 1m no paint, 2m paint, etc), or just solid ones?
>
> >>> Joseph
>
> >> You must have to much time if you wondering about this. Just go ride
> >> and have fun...
>
> > Wondering about these things while riding IS fun!
>
> > Joseph
>
> A serious (close?) observation.
>
> You have posed quite a few questions about a scad of technical points,
> mechanical, physiological, other. I think you have the same disease I
> suspect Thomas Voeckler has - he thinks too much about the peripheral
> elements of a race, loses concentration on the task at hand, cogitates ab=
out
> how to do things differently, and slides fast to the back.
>
> You have had too many picaune observations about minutiae that you pay
> attention to while you are trying to race or train. I think you are not
> getting to the level where endorphin energizes you. Embrace those moment=
s=2E
> Leave the pilot-light cerebral functions focused on the riding while ridi=
ng.
> If you later can extract some facts from memory, or from measurement
> equipment, see if you can think about it later, not while riding.
>
> I write this pretty candidly, so you can get a very different point of
> view - not from tech wizards, but from a guy who used to do OK racing. If
> you are too conscious of every element, the harmony you seek get broken u=
p=2E
> Try to be satisfied with what you have accomplished. Plain satisfied for
> just a little time. Tell yourself you did well - without any
> qualifications. Building on the good is more important, in the long-run,
> than trying to correct every little bad detail.
I read this last night and slept on it. Some very astute observations
here which I am glad you took the time and care to share. I think you
may be very correct. At times this pointless pondering is just an
amusement, but perhaps more often than not it is a vehicle for
excuses. Particularly when I am trying to accomplish something. And I
do seldom get the endorphin action going. In a TT instead of getting
goose bumps from hammering at full throttle I'm sitting there
calculating splits based on when I meet riders who are on the return
leg and making mental downward adjustments to my goals for
"unsuitable" conditions (there are hills, I don't have a TT bike, I
didn't warm up, etc, etc). In otherwords using my brain at 100% for
nothing. At the finish I'm winded, but everyone else seems wasted. I'm
doing something wrong.
Watching the prolouge, I was hoping someone would ask one of the
riders what they think about while riding. But that desire to know
what they are thinking is indicative of my whole preoccupation, right?
Maybe I should just go for a ride. ;-)
Joseph
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 17:09:36
From:
Subject: Re: Road paint and rolling resistance?
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On Jul 7, 6:51 am, damyth <mdk.10.dam...@spamgourmet.com > wrote:
> Generally speaking, in dry weather, would the paint stripe (say the
> paint line demarcating the bike lane from road traffic) provide lower
> rolling resistance than plain asphalt?
>
> Paint stripes are as slippery in the wet (generally more so than
> asphalt), I'm just wondering if this implies lower rolling resistance
> as well for drier conditions.
>
> Or stated another way, would an individual's total time in a time
> trial be reduced if he rode almost all the time on the painted line
> rather than the asphalt?
Dear D,
If paint is used, it's thick paint that settles first in the bottoms
of the small asphalt irregularities, so you get a smoother surface.
If heavy tape is used, that's obviously smoother, too.
Here's a coefficient of rolling resistance table from Analytic
Cycling's speed calculator:
Wooden Track 0.001
Smooth Concrete 0.002
Asphalt Road 0.004
Rough but Paved Road 0.008
Even the tiny surface roughness of "Smooth Concrete" is noticeably
slower than a good wood track.
Heavily painted asphalt moves toward smooth concrete.
If you're on a 0.004 CRR asphalt road and start riding on paint, you
may drop to 0.003 CRR.
Here's a detailed calculator that's moved to a new address:
http://austinimage.com/bp/velocityN/velocity.html
Here are some predicted km/h speeds
watts watts
CRR 200 300
0.0040 32.385 37.622
0.0035 32.638 37.844
0.0030 32.892 38.066
The potential speed increases are only 0.50 to 0.25 km/h, small enough
to be of interest chiefly to racers desperate for any advantage.
Anyone who wants to test the surfaces can simply scrape a piece of
wood on a good paint stripe and then on the asphalt next to it and see
which piece of "sandpaper" is rougher.
As for rain, a slightly wet road is usually faster because
incompressible water is filling in the road irregularities, much like
paint, and giving a smoother ride. But with more water, the tires
start working harder to squish the water to each side.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 11:45:14
From:
Subject: Re: Road paint and rolling resistance?
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On Jul 7, 6:51 am, damyth <mdk.10.dam...@spamgourmet.com > wrote:
> Generally speaking, in dry weather, would the paint stripe (say the
> paint line demarcating the bike lane from road traffic) provide lower
> rolling resistance than plain asphalt?
Yes.
...
> Or stated another way, would an individual's total time in a time
> trial be reduced if he rode almost all the time on the painted line
> rather than the asphalt?
Different question. If you are preoccupied with staying on the 6-inch
line you may ride slower than you would while not thinking about it.
Robert
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 18:37:00
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Road paint and rolling resistance?
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> damyth <mdk.10.dam...@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
>> Generally speaking, in dry weather, would the paint stripe (say the
>> paint line demarcating the bike lane from road traffic) provide lower
>> rolling resistance than plain asphalt?
r15757@aol.com wrote:
> Yes.
> damyth <mdk.10.dam...@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
>> Or stated another way, would an individual's total time in a time
>> trial be reduced if he rode almost all the time on the painted line
>> rather than the asphalt?
r15757@aol.com wrote:
> Different question. If you are preoccupied with staying on the 6-inch
> line you may ride slower than you would while not thinking about it.
When I was in grammar school, we noticed that riding a road stripe is
pretty attainable even for an 8 year old. I got my stainless elbow
upgrade by extrapolating to a steel beam at a construction site. That's
harder, as it's sorta 'pass-fail'.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 11:25:44
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Road paint and rolling resistance?
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On Jul 7, 8:08 pm, Lou Holtman <lholremovet...@planet.nl > wrote:
> joseph.santanie...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Jul 7, 4:33 pm, "Gary Jacobson" <gjacob...@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
> >> "damyth" <mdk.10.dam...@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:1183812679.099897.199680@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>> Generally speaking, in dry weather, would the paint stripe (say the
> >>> paint line demarcating the bike lane from road traffic) provide lower
> >>> rolling resistance than plain asphalt?
> >>> Paint stripes are as slippery in the wet (generally more so than
> >>> asphalt), I'm just wondering if this implies lower rolling resistance
> >>> as well for drier conditions.
> >>> Or stated another way, would an individual's total time in a time
> >>> trial be reduced if he rode almost all the time on the painted line
> >>> rather than the asphalt?
> >> Yes. The more consistent surface results in less vibration and that means
> >> less loss of energy. At least that is what I've read and perceived myself,
> >> and it makes sense.
>
> >> Gary Jacobson
> >> Rosendale, NY
>
> > I've wondered if the sharp transition from paint to no-paint on dashed
> > lines creates more resistance tnan the smooth paint saves. In other
> > words, is it worth trying to ride on dashed lines (say 2m paint, 1m no
> > paint, 2m paint, etc), or just solid ones?
>
> > Joseph
>
> You must have to much time if you wondering about this. Just go ride and
> have fun...
Wondering about these things while riding IS fun!
Joseph
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 20:58:18
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Road paint and rolling resistance?
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Dans le message de
news:1183832744.370197.186890@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com,
joseph.santaniello@gmail.com <joseph.santaniello@gmail.com > a réfléchi, et
puis a déclaré :
> On Jul 7, 8:08 pm, Lou Holtman <lholremovet...@planet.nl> wrote:
>> joseph.santanie...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Jul 7, 4:33 pm, "Gary Jacobson" <gjacob...@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> "damyth" <mdk.10.dam...@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message
>>
>>>> news:1183812679.099897.199680@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>>> Generally speaking, in dry weather, would the paint stripe (say
>>>>> the paint line demarcating the bike lane from road traffic)
>>>>> provide lower rolling resistance than plain asphalt?
>>>>> Paint stripes are as slippery in the wet (generally more so than
>>>>> asphalt), I'm just wondering if this implies lower rolling
>>>>> resistance as well for drier conditions.
>>>>> Or stated another way, would an individual's total time in a time
>>>>> trial be reduced if he rode almost all the time on the painted
>>>>> line rather than the asphalt?
>>>> Yes. The more consistent surface results in less vibration and
>>>> that means less loss of energy. At least that is what I've read
>>>> and perceived myself, and it makes sense.
>>
>>>> Gary Jacobson
>>>> Rosendale, NY
>>
>>> I've wondered if the sharp transition from paint to no-paint on
>>> dashed lines creates more resistance tnan the smooth paint saves.
>>> In other words, is it worth trying to ride on dashed lines (say 2m
>>> paint, 1m no paint, 2m paint, etc), or just solid ones?
>>
>>> Joseph
>>
>> You must have to much time if you wondering about this. Just go ride
>> and have fun...
>
> Wondering about these things while riding IS fun!
>
> Joseph
A serious (close?) observation.
You have posed quite a few questions about a scad of technical points,
mechanical, physiological, other. I think you have the same disease I
suspect Thomas Voeckler has - he thinks too much about the peripheral
elements of a race, loses concentration on the task at hand, cogitates about
how to do things differently, and slides fast to the back.
You have had too many picaune observations about minutiae that you pay
attention to while you are trying to race or train. I think you are not
getting to the level where endorphin energizes you. Embrace those moments.
Leave the pilot-light cerebral functions focused on the riding while riding.
If you later can extract some facts from memory, or from measurement
equipment, see if you can think about it later, not while riding.
I write this pretty candidly, so you can get a very different point of
view - not from tech wizards, but from a guy who used to do OK racing. If
you are too conscious of every element, the harmony you seek get broken up.
Try to be satisfied with what you have accomplished. Plain satisfied for
just a little time. Tell yourself you did well - without any
qualifications. Building on the good is more important, in the long-run,
than trying to correct every little bad detail.
--
Sandy
--
C'est le contraire du vélo, la bicyclette.
Une silhouette profilée mauve fluo dévale
à soixante-dix à l'heure : c'est du vélo.
Deux lycéennes côte à côte traversent
un pont à Bruges : c'est de la bicyclette.
-Delerm, P.
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 10:29:20
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Road paint and rolling resistance?
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On Jul 7, 4:33 pm, "Gary Jacobson" <gjacob...@hvc.rr.com > wrote:
> "damyth" <mdk.10.dam...@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1183812679.099897.199680@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Generally speaking, in dry weather, would the paint stripe (say the
> > paint line demarcating the bike lane from road traffic) provide lower
> > rolling resistance than plain asphalt?
>
> > Paint stripes are as slippery in the wet (generally more so than
> > asphalt), I'm just wondering if this implies lower rolling resistance
> > as well for drier conditions.
>
> > Or stated another way, would an individual's total time in a time
> > trial be reduced if he rode almost all the time on the painted line
> > rather than the asphalt?
>
> Yes. The more consistent surface results in less vibration and that means
> less loss of energy. At least that is what I've read and perceived myself,
> and it makes sense.
>
> Gary Jacobson
> Rosendale, NY
I've wondered if the sharp transition from paint to no-paint on dashed
lines creates more resistance tnan the smooth paint saves. In other
words, is it worth trying to ride on dashed lines (say 2m paint, 1m no
paint, 2m paint, etc), or just solid ones?
Joseph
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 18:21:18
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Road paint and rolling resistance?
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>> "damyth" <mdk.10.dam...@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message
>> news:1183812679.099897.199680@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>> Generally speaking, in dry weather, would the paint stripe (say the
>>> paint line demarcating the bike lane from road traffic) provide lower
>>> rolling resistance than plain asphalt?
>>> Paint stripes are as slippery in the wet (generally more so than
>>> asphalt), I'm just wondering if this implies lower rolling resistance
>>> as well for drier conditions.
>>> Or stated another way, would an individual's total time in a time
>>> trial be reduced if he rode almost all the time on the painted line
>>> rather than the asphalt?
> "Gary Jacobson" <gjacob...@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
>> Yes. The more consistent surface results in less vibration and that means
>> less loss of energy. At least that is what I've read and perceived myself,
>> and it makes sense.
joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:
> I've wondered if the sharp transition from paint to no-paint on dashed
> lines creates more resistance tnan the smooth paint saves. In other
> words, is it worth trying to ride on dashed lines (say 2m paint, 1m no
> paint, 2m paint, etc), or just solid ones?
I can't believe _you_ asked that.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 20:08:00
From: Lou Holtman
Subject: Re: Road paint and rolling resistance?
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joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 7, 4:33 pm, "Gary Jacobson" <gjacob...@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
>> "damyth" <mdk.10.dam...@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1183812679.099897.199680@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> Generally speaking, in dry weather, would the paint stripe (say the
>>> paint line demarcating the bike lane from road traffic) provide lower
>>> rolling resistance than plain asphalt?
>>> Paint stripes are as slippery in the wet (generally more so than
>>> asphalt), I'm just wondering if this implies lower rolling resistance
>>> as well for drier conditions.
>>> Or stated another way, would an individual's total time in a time
>>> trial be reduced if he rode almost all the time on the painted line
>>> rather than the asphalt?
>> Yes. The more consistent surface results in less vibration and that means
>> less loss of energy. At least that is what I've read and perceived myself,
>> and it makes sense.
>>
>> Gary Jacobson
>> Rosendale, NY
>
> I've wondered if the sharp transition from paint to no-paint on dashed
> lines creates more resistance tnan the smooth paint saves. In other
> words, is it worth trying to ride on dashed lines (say 2m paint, 1m no
> paint, 2m paint, etc), or just solid ones?
>
> Joseph
>
You must have to much time if you wondering about this. Just go ride and
have fun...
Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu (http://www.nb.nu)
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 09:56:20
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Road paint and rolling resistance?
|
In article <1183812679.099897.199680@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com >,
damyth <mdk.10.damyth@spamgourmet.com > wrote:
> Generally speaking, in dry weather, would the paint stripe (say the
> paint line demarcating the bike lane from road traffic) provide lower
> rolling resistance than plain asphalt?
>
> Paint stripes are as slippery in the wet (generally more so than
> asphalt), I'm just wondering if this implies lower rolling resistance
> as well for drier conditions.
>
> Or stated another way, would an individual's total time in a time
> trial be reduced if he rode almost all the time on the painted line
> rather than the asphalt?
The effect would be small, I think. A thick layer of paint, or in some
cases it is actually a type of 3M tape heat-bonded to the road, fills in
the voids between the aggregate grains in the asphalt and will make for
a smoother surface.
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 10:33:43
From: Gary Jacobson
Subject: Re: Road paint and rolling resistance?
|
"damyth" <mdk.10.damyth@spamgourmet.com > wrote in message
news:1183812679.099897.199680@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Generally speaking, in dry weather, would the paint stripe (say the
> paint line demarcating the bike lane from road traffic) provide lower
> rolling resistance than plain asphalt?
>
> Paint stripes are as slippery in the wet (generally more so than
> asphalt), I'm just wondering if this implies lower rolling resistance
> as well for drier conditions.
>
> Or stated another way, would an individual's total time in a time
> trial be reduced if he rode almost all the time on the painted line
> rather than the asphalt?
Yes. The more consistent surface results in less vibration and that means
less loss of energy. At least that is what I've read and perceived myself,
and it makes sense.
Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY
|
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