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Main
Date: 25 Sep 2007 21:46:21
From:
Subject: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
A collect telegram arrived with this link to a long illustrated report
of the 1897 Interbike, held at Grand Central Palace, New York City:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E4D81F31E132A25754C0A9649C94669ED7CF
--aluminum-case cyclometers
--drop-forged human skeletons
--improved foot pump
--the new _laminated_ wood rims
--changeable gears
--narrow-tread crank hangers (small q-factor)
--the only positive stroke bicycle bell on the market
strikes 26 times with one pull of the lever!
--hot new D-shaped frame tubing for more tire clearance
--the improved Ray Home Trainer with hand windlass
--Vimoid anti-flat mixture
--reversible longer-lasting sprockets
--square double-drop-forged drilled-out rear stays
--the Washington bicycle line
adults: the General, the Lady,
juveniles: George, Little Hatchet, Martha
--combination locks that can be opened in the dark
--helical tubing, 25% stronger than weldless
--the puncture-proof Ball tire
--stout new maple handlebars
--a circular replacement for the diamond frame
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
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|
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Date: 27 Sep 2007 18:04:17
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
In article
<seljf394j6jfc2sh570u6jt240guj3hso6@4ax.com >,
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> A collect telegram arrived with this link to a long illustrated report
> of the 1897 Interbike, held at Grand Central Palace, New York City:
>
> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E4D81F31E132A25754C0A9649C94669ED7CF
It showed me the first paragraph, and the link to
the full article went to a registration page.
--
Michael Press
|
| | |
Date: 28 Sep 2007 04:10:30
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
In article <rubrum-43803F.18041727092007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net >,
Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net > wrote:
> In article
> <seljf394j6jfc2sh570u6jt240guj3hso6@4ax.com>,
> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > A collect telegram arrived with this link to a long illustrated report
> > of the 1897 Interbike, held at Grand Central Palace, New York City:
> >
> > http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E4D81F31E132A25754C0A9649
> > C94669ED7CF
>
> It showed me the first paragraph, and the link to
> the full article went to a registration page.
Argh. Okay, the good news is that the registration is now free.
The bad news is if you haven't created the free account, you may not be
able to see the content. Use bugmenot.com
-RjC.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Sep 2007 22:21:43
From:
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 04:10:30 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca >
wrote:
>In article <rubrum-43803F.18041727092007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
> Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>> In article
>> <seljf394j6jfc2sh570u6jt240guj3hso6@4ax.com>,
>> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>
>> > A collect telegram arrived with this link to a long illustrated report
>> > of the 1897 Interbike, held at Grand Central Palace, New York City:
>> >
>> > http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E4D81F31E132A25754C0A9649
>> > C94669ED7CF
>>
>> It showed me the first paragraph, and the link to
>> the full article went to a registration page.
>
>Argh. Okay, the good news is that the registration is now free.
>
>The bad news is if you haven't created the free account, you may not be
>able to see the content. Use bugmenot.com
>
>-RjC.
Dear Ryan,
Gosh, how terrible!
How dare they ask me my name, age, zip code, and alleged occupation in
return for free access a searchable database of over 11 million
articles published before 1900!
I'll go back to picking yesterday's newspapers out of the trash can
before I'll put up with that.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
|
| | | | |
Date: 28 Sep 2007 16:13:45
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
>>> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>>> A collect telegram arrived with this link to a long illustrated report
>>>> of the 1897 Interbike, held at Grand Central Palace, New York City:
>>>> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E4D81F31E132A25754C0A9649
>>>> C94669ED7CF
>> Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>> It showed me the first paragraph, and the link to
>>> the full article went to a registration page.
> Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca> wrote:
>> Argh. Okay, the good news is that the registration is now free.
>> The bad news is if you haven't created the free account, you may not be
>> able to see the content. Use bugmenot.com
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> Gosh, how terrible!
> How dare they ask me my name, age, zip code, and alleged occupation in
> return for free access a searchable database of over 11 million
> articles published before 1900!
> I'll go back to picking yesterday's newspapers out of the trash can
> before I'll put up with that.
Data is its own purpose and end now, it seems. Tuesday morning at the
Motor Vehicle Dep't:
"For 38 years you gave me a license and _now_ you need my Social
Security Number?!?!?"
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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| | | | | |
Date: 28 Sep 2007 15:43:15
From:
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:13:45 -0500, A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org >
wrote:
>>>> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>>>> A collect telegram arrived with this link to a long illustrated report
>>>>> of the 1897 Interbike, held at Grand Central Palace, New York City:
>>>>> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E4D81F31E132A25754C0A9649
>>>>> C94669ED7CF
>
>>> Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>> It showed me the first paragraph, and the link to
>>>> the full article went to a registration page.
>
>> Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca> wrote:
>>> Argh. Okay, the good news is that the registration is now free.
>>> The bad news is if you haven't created the free account, you may not be
>>> able to see the content. Use bugmenot.com
>
>carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>> Gosh, how terrible!
>> How dare they ask me my name, age, zip code, and alleged occupation in
>> return for free access a searchable database of over 11 million
>> articles published before 1900!
>> I'll go back to picking yesterday's newspapers out of the trash can
>> before I'll put up with that.
>
>Data is its own purpose and end now, it seems. Tuesday morning at the
>Motor Vehicle Dep't:
>"For 38 years you gave me a license and _now_ you need my Social
>Security Number?!?!?"
Dear Andrew,
Sorry, it's 5 p.m.
Come back tomorrow.
And remember to bring your medical records.
Or a pack of Laramies.
Cheers,
Patty & Selma Bouvier
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| | | | |
Date: 28 Sep 2007 04:51:59
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
In article <jvvof3tiaqi3viuciu7chk0m83n48sr2qt@4ax.com >,
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 04:10:30 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <rubrum-43803F.18041727092007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
> > Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >
> >> In article
> >> <seljf394j6jfc2sh570u6jt240guj3hso6@4ax.com>,
> >> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> >>
> >> > A collect telegram arrived with this link to a long illustrated report
> >> > of the 1897 Interbike, held at Grand Central Palace, New York City:
> >> >
> >> > http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E4D81F31E132A25754C0A9
> >> > 649
> >> > C94669ED7CF
> >>
> >> It showed me the first paragraph, and the link to
> >> the full article went to a registration page.
> >
> >Argh. Okay, the good news is that the registration is now free.
> >
> >The bad news is if you haven't created the free account, you may not be
> >able to see the content. Use bugmenot.com
> >
> >-RjC.
>
> Dear Ryan,
>
> Gosh, how terrible!
>
> How dare they ask me my name, age, zip code, and alleged occupation in
> return for free access a searchable database of over 11 million
> articles published before 1900!
>
> I'll go back to picking yesterday's newspapers out of the trash can
> before I'll put up with that.
My own position can be summarized by the fact that I had an NYT account
before TimeSelect was even a glimmer in Pinch's eye. But the NYT has an
archive worth the trouble. I grow weary when the Minnesota Star-Tribune
wants me to register to see their current news stories, and wearier
still when frankly unworthy sites demand registration. Most of the time,
I turn away at such gates.
And hey, I figure, they've already been paid for those articles, the
least they could do is give them away for free :).
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | | | |
Date: 27 Sep 2007 23:40:43
From:
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 04:51:59 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca >
wrote:
>In article <jvvof3tiaqi3viuciu7chk0m83n48sr2qt@4ax.com>,
> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 04:10:30 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <rubrum-43803F.18041727092007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
>> > Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> In article
>> >> <seljf394j6jfc2sh570u6jt240guj3hso6@4ax.com>,
>> >> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > A collect telegram arrived with this link to a long illustrated report
>> >> > of the 1897 Interbike, held at Grand Central Palace, New York City:
>> >> >
>> >> > http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E4D81F31E132A25754C0A9
>> >> > 649
>> >> > C94669ED7CF
>> >>
>> >> It showed me the first paragraph, and the link to
>> >> the full article went to a registration page.
>> >
>> >Argh. Okay, the good news is that the registration is now free.
>> >
>> >The bad news is if you haven't created the free account, you may not be
>> >able to see the content. Use bugmenot.com
>> >
>> >-RjC.
>>
>> Dear Ryan,
>>
>> Gosh, how terrible!
>>
>> How dare they ask me my name, age, zip code, and alleged occupation in
>> return for free access a searchable database of over 11 million
>> articles published before 1900!
>>
>> I'll go back to picking yesterday's newspapers out of the trash can
>> before I'll put up with that.
>
>My own position can be summarized by the fact that I had an NYT account
>before TimeSelect was even a glimmer in Pinch's eye. But the NYT has an
>archive worth the trouble. I grow weary when the Minnesota Star-Tribune
>wants me to register to see their current news stories, and wearier
>still when frankly unworthy sites demand registration. Most of the time,
>I turn away at such gates.
>
>And hey, I figure, they've already been paid for those articles, the
>least they could do is give them away for free :).
Dear Ryan,
But at least you didn't stick your lip out, pout, and announce that
_you_ get a registration page when you click on an internet link, as
if you were being badly treated while everyone else had a good time.
Some guys would rather stand on the corner, complaining about the
don't-walk light, than walk across the street . . .
:-)
Thanks again for pointing out that the NYT archives are online with
free registration. Later articles are often pay-per-view, but the
pre-1900 stuff is entirely free as far as I can see, with more stuff
about bicycling than you can shake a stick at--it was the height of
the bike boom, which crashed shortly after 1900.
As an example, the NYT had 217 installments of "Gossip of the Cyclers"
in the 1890's, a nearly full-page series of articles about--
Well, it's not real gossip, so no National Inquirer stories about
drunken track racers cycling naked down Broadway after trophy girls.
Here's a random sample:
"GOSSIP OF THE CYCLERS; The Meeting of the Bridge Path Delegates
Viewed as a Harbinger of Unity. ONE SPIRIT ACTUATES ALL Working
Together, the Wheelmen Believe They Will Wield a Vast Power -- Bicycle
Skating a Coming Sport -- Death Knell of Road Racing in England"
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9F04E6DF1638E433A25752C2A9679D94669ED7CF
Plus the semi-chainless bike, the guy who's trying to do 250 centuries
in a year, the inferiority of French cycling bells, topography with
cyclometers (pre-1900 GPS), and the progress of the bowling tournament
of the Associated Cycling Clubs of New Jersey.
But ya gotta register for free access to find out what killed Road
Racing in England. If it ain't worth it, it ain't worth complaining
about it.
Oh, the humanity!
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 29 Sep 2007 19:59:09
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
In article
<hi3pf3t3gvkvdtqu1uuj79cud23a26hvgt@4ax.com >,
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 04:51:59 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <jvvof3tiaqi3viuciu7chk0m83n48sr2qt@4ax.com>,
> > carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 04:10:30 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article <rubrum-43803F.18041727092007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
> >> > Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> In article
> >> >> <seljf394j6jfc2sh570u6jt240guj3hso6@4ax.com>,
> >> >> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > A collect telegram arrived with this link to a long illustrated report
> >> >> > of the 1897 Interbike, held at Grand Central Palace, New York City:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E4D81F31E132A25754C0A9
> >> >> > 649
> >> >> > C94669ED7CF
> >> >>
> >> >> It showed me the first paragraph, and the link to
> >> >> the full article went to a registration page.
> >> >
> >> >Argh. Okay, the good news is that the registration is now free.
> >> >
> >> >The bad news is if you haven't created the free account, you may not be
> >> >able to see the content. Use bugmenot.com
> >> >
> >> >-RjC.
> >>
> >> Dear Ryan,
> >>
> >> Gosh, how terrible!
> >>
> >> How dare they ask me my name, age, zip code, and alleged occupation in
> >> return for free access a searchable database of over 11 million
> >> articles published before 1900!
> >>
> >> I'll go back to picking yesterday's newspapers out of the trash can
> >> before I'll put up with that.
> >
> >My own position can be summarized by the fact that I had an NYT account
> >before TimeSelect was even a glimmer in Pinch's eye. But the NYT has an
> >archive worth the trouble. I grow weary when the Minnesota Star-Tribune
> >wants me to register to see their current news stories, and wearier
> >still when frankly unworthy sites demand registration. Most of the time,
> >I turn away at such gates.
> >
> >And hey, I figure, they've already been paid for those articles, the
> >least they could do is give them away for free :).
>
> Dear Ryan,
>
> But at least you didn't stick your lip out, pout, and announce that
> _you_ get a registration page when you click on an internet link, as
> if you were being badly treated while everyone else had a good time.
Snipping from cover, dear Carl.
You said it is free. It is not free.
--
Michael Press
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 30 Sep 2007 05:46:43
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
In article <rubrum-D27699.19590929092007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net >,
Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net > wrote:
> In article
> <hi3pf3t3gvkvdtqu1uuj79cud23a26hvgt@4ax.com>,
> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 04:51:59 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >In article <jvvof3tiaqi3viuciu7chk0m83n48sr2qt@4ax.com>,
> > > carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 04:10:30 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >In article <rubrum-43803F.18041727092007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
> > >> > Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> In article
> > >> >> <seljf394j6jfc2sh570u6jt240guj3hso6@4ax.com>,
> > >> >> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > A collect telegram arrived with this link to a long illustrated
> > >> >> > report
> > >> >> > of the 1897 Interbike, held at Grand Central Palace, New York City:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E4D81F31E132A2575
> > >> >> > 4C0A9
> > >> >> > 649
> > >> >> > C94669ED7CF
> > >> >>
> > >> >> It showed me the first paragraph, and the link to
> > >> >> the full article went to a registration page.
> > >> >
> > >> >Argh. Okay, the good news is that the registration is now free.
> > >> >
> > >> >The bad news is if you haven't created the free account, you may not be
> > >> >able to see the content. Use bugmenot.com
> > >> >
> > >> >-RjC.
> > >>
> > >> Dear Ryan,
> > >>
> > >> Gosh, how terrible!
> > >>
> > >> How dare they ask me my name, age, zip code, and alleged occupation in
> > >> return for free access a searchable database of over 11 million
> > >> articles published before 1900!
> > >>
> > >> I'll go back to picking yesterday's newspapers out of the trash can
> > >> before I'll put up with that.
> > >
> > >My own position can be summarized by the fact that I had an NYT account
> > >before TimeSelect was even a glimmer in Pinch's eye. But the NYT has an
> > >archive worth the trouble. I grow weary when the Minnesota Star-Tribune
> > >wants me to register to see their current news stories, and wearier
> > >still when frankly unworthy sites demand registration. Most of the time,
> > >I turn away at such gates.
> > >
> > >And hey, I figure, they've already been paid for those articles, the
> > >least they could do is give them away for free :).
> >
> > Dear Ryan,
> >
> > But at least you didn't stick your lip out, pout, and announce that
> > _you_ get a registration page when you click on an internet link, as
> > if you were being badly treated while everyone else had a good time.
>
> Snipping from cover, dear Carl.
>
> You said it is free. It is not free.
Dear Michael:
Free as in beer. Your immortal soul exists outside the scope of
economics, and your demographic data (which, I would hasten to point
out, you can pretty much make up; how much of the Internet claims to
reside in the Beverly Hills area code?)
And your time! Even if the article was non-gated, your precious,
valuable time would be required to read it. Does the NYT pay for that?
Well, do they???
Don't even get me started on the ads beside the content!
Perhaps a "free" good or service means something else in your world, but
in my world, it generally refers to things which require no monetary
renumeration for their acquisition. A certain effort may be required to
complete the exchange (a rebate form, going to the site of the giveaway,
completion of a registration form) but anything which takes more
substantial time, effort, or goods is usually classified as barter, not
free.
I'm pretty sure the NYT articles qualify as free to most reasonable
observers.
Now, my bias is that I remember Salon's more dubious content
gatekeeping, including the notorious "day pass" system, where you got to
read Salon for a day after you watched a 30-second ad. That was so
annoying that when I got caught in the day pass trap by following a link
(I'm a slow learner; this happened a few times), I rarely bothered to
carry on.
That said, I'd still consider that "free" access to the articles; they
took 30 seconds of my time, but that is a token amount of time per day.
Nonetheless, I had better things to do, so I didn't take up the free
offer.
You may have a similar objection to the NYT registration, but it hardly
disqualifies the article archive from being "free."
And you need only register once!
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 01 Oct 2007 17:52:45
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
In article
<rcousine-8D9606.22464229092007@news.telus.net >,
Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <rubrum-D27699.19590929092007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
> Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> In article
>> <hi3pf3t3gvkvdtqu1uuj79cud23a26hvgt@4ax.com>,
>> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 04:51:59 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>>In article <jvvof3tiaqi3viuciu7chk0m83n48sr2qt@4ax.com>,
>>>> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 04:10:30 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>In article <rubrum-43803F.18041727092007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
>>>>>> Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>> <seljf394j6jfc2sh570u6jt240guj3hso6@4ax.com>,
>>>>>>> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>>>>>>> A collect telegram arrived with this link to a long illustrated
>>>>>>>> report
>>>>>>>> of the 1897 Interbike, held at Grand Central Palace, New York City:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E4D81F31E132A2575
>>>>>>>> 4C0A9
>>>>>>>> 649
>>>>>>>> C94669ED7CF
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It showed me the first paragraph, and the link to
>>>>>>> the full article went to a registration page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Argh. Okay, the good news is that the registration is now free.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The bad news is if you haven't created the free account, you may not be
>>>>>>able to see the content. Use bugmenot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>-RjC.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Ryan,
>>>>>
>>>>> Gosh, how terrible!
>>>>>
>>>>> How dare they ask me my name, age, zip code, and alleged occupation in
>>>>> return for free access a searchable database of over 11 million
>>>>> articles published before 1900!
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll go back to picking yesterday's newspapers out of the trash can
>>>>> before I'll put up with that.
>>>>
>>>>My own position can be summarized by the fact that I had an NYT account
>>>>before TimeSelect was even a glimmer in Pinch's eye. But the NYT has an
>>>>archive worth the trouble. I grow weary when the Minnesota Star-Tribune
>>>>wants me to register to see their current news stories, and wearier
>>>>still when frankly unworthy sites demand registration. Most of the time,
>>>>I turn away at such gates.
>>>>
>>>>And hey, I figure, they've already been paid for those articles, the
>>>>least they could do is give them away for free :).
>>>
>>> Dear Ryan,
>>>
>>> But at least you didn't stick your lip out, pout, and announce that
>>> _you_ get a registration page when you click on an internet link, as
>>> if you were being badly treated while everyone else had a good time.
>>
>> Snipping from cover, dear Carl.
>>
>> You said it is free. It is not free.
>
> Dear Michael:
>
> Free as in beer. Your immortal soul
No idea what you are talking about here.
> exists outside the scope of
> economics, and your demographic data (which, I would hasten to point
> out, you can pretty much make up; how much of the Internet claims to
> reside in the Beverly Hills area code?)
You propose that I lie to frustrate NYT's right to protect
their legal entitilements. You propose that I steal.
> And your time! Even if the article was non-gated, your precious,
> valuable time would be required to read it. Does the NYT pay for that?
> Well, do they???
This makes no sense. That is not in their business plan.
> Don't even get me started on the ads beside the content!
>
> Perhaps a "free" good or service means something else in your world, but
> in my world, it generally refers to things which require no monetary
> renumeration for their acquisition. A certain effort may be required to
> complete the exchange (a rebate form, going to the site of the giveaway,
> completion of a registration form) but anything which takes more
> substantial time, effort, or goods is usually classified as barter, not
> free.
>
> I'm pretty sure the NYT articles qualify as free to most reasonable
> observers.
This is you calling me unreasonable?
> Now, my bias is that I remember Salon's more dubious content
> gatekeeping, including the notorious "day pass" system, where you got to
> read Salon for a day after you watched a 30-second ad. That was so
> annoying that when I got caught in the day pass trap by following a link
> (I'm a slow learner; this happened a few times), I rarely bothered to
> carry on.
>
> That said, I'd still consider that "free" access to the articles; they
> took 30 seconds of my time, but that is a token amount of time per day.
> Nonetheless, I had better things to do, so I didn't take up the free
> offer.
>
> You may have a similar objection to the NYT registration, but it hardly
> disqualifies the article archive from being "free."
We already know we have different ideas of `free.'
> And you need only register once!
And ever afterwards all information is automatically forwarded
and logged, freeing more of my valuable time.
--
Michael Press
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 02 Oct 2007 02:11:19
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
In article <rubrum-7806FB.10524501102007@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com >,
Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net > wrote:
> In article
> <rcousine-8D9606.22464229092007@news.telus.net>,
> Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca> wrote:
> > In article <rubrum-D27699.19590929092007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
> > Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >> In article
> >> <hi3pf3t3gvkvdtqu1uuj79cud23a26hvgt@4ax.com>,
> >> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 04:51:59 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>In article <jvvof3tiaqi3viuciu7chk0m83n48sr2qt@4ax.com>,
> >>>> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> >>>>> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 04:10:30 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>In article <rubrum-43803F.18041727092007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
> >>>>>> Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>> In article
> >>>>>>> <seljf394j6jfc2sh570u6jt240guj3hso6@4ax.com>,
> >>>>>>> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> >>>>>>>> A collect telegram arrived with this link to a long illustrated
> >>>>>>>> report
> >>>>>>>> of the 1897 Interbike, held at Grand Central Palace, New York City:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E4D81F31E132A2575
> >>>>>>>> 4C0A9
> >>>>>>>> 649
> >>>>>>>> C94669ED7CF
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It showed me the first paragraph, and the link to
> >>>>>>> the full article went to a registration page.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Argh. Okay, the good news is that the registration is now free.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The bad news is if you haven't created the free account, you may not be
> >>>>>>able to see the content. Use bugmenot.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>-RjC.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dear Ryan,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Gosh, how terrible!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> How dare they ask me my name, age, zip code, and alleged occupation in
> >>>>> return for free access a searchable database of over 11 million
> >>>>> articles published before 1900!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'll go back to picking yesterday's newspapers out of the trash can
> >>>>> before I'll put up with that.
> >>>>
> >>>>My own position can be summarized by the fact that I had an NYT account
> >>>>before TimeSelect was even a glimmer in Pinch's eye. But the NYT has an
> >>>>archive worth the trouble. I grow weary when the Minnesota Star-Tribune
> >>>>wants me to register to see their current news stories, and wearier
> >>>>still when frankly unworthy sites demand registration. Most of the time,
> >>>>I turn away at such gates.
> >>>>
> >>>>And hey, I figure, they've already been paid for those articles, the
> >>>>least they could do is give them away for free :).
> >>>
> >>> Dear Ryan,
> >>>
> >>> But at least you didn't stick your lip out, pout, and announce that
> >>> _you_ get a registration page when you click on an internet link, as
> >>> if you were being badly treated while everyone else had a good time.
> >>
> >> Snipping from cover, dear Carl.
> >>
> >> You said it is free. It is not free.
> >
> > Dear Michael:
> >
> > Free as in beer. Your immortal soul
>
> No idea what you are talking about here.
D'oh! "Free as in beer" is a common term used (mostly among open source
nerds) to distinguish things offered without cost from "free as in
speech," which is things (like open source software) which you which you
have especially liberal rights over (source examination, modification,
redistribution), but I don't think it's a proper subset of "free as in
beer."
A more precise explication here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratis_versus_Libre
The NYT archive is, unless you consider registration a vital cost, "free
as in beer," but not "free as in speech."
> > exists outside the scope of
> > economics, and your demographic data (which, I would hasten to point
> > out, you can pretty much make up; how much of the Internet claims to
> > reside in the Beverly Hills area code?)
>
> You propose that I lie to frustrate NYT's right to protect
> their legal entitilements. You propose that I steal.
You're right, and I'll concede that's wrong. On the other hand, I went
back and looked at what data my NYT profile actually holds: email
address, year of birth (not birthdate), and country of residence. There
are spots for other data (zip code, industry/job title/company size) but
I have no entries in those fields, suggesting they are optional.
Not even your name is stored!
> > And your time! Even if the article was non-gated, your precious,
> > valuable time would be required to read it. Does the NYT pay for that?
> > Well, do they???
>
> This makes no sense. That is not in their business plan.
True, it makes no sense. It's hyperbole to point out all the "costs" we
routinely incur in acquiring "free" things. On the subject of hidden
costs, I would suggest the following comic, except that it uses some
very dirty language, and it really only make sense if you know about the
video game Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/08/25
So please, don't read it.
> > Don't even get me started on the ads beside the content!
> >
> > Perhaps a "free" good or service means something else in your world, but
> > in my world, it generally refers to things which require no monetary
> > renumeration for their acquisition. A certain effort may be required to
> > complete the exchange (a rebate form, going to the site of the giveaway,
> > completion of a registration form) but anything which takes more
> > substantial time, effort, or goods is usually classified as barter, not
> > free.
> >
> > I'm pretty sure the NYT articles qualify as free to most reasonable
> > observers.
>
> This is you calling me unreasonable?
I said "most." I accept that you are a reasonable man until you
demonstrate otherwise. One way to demonstrate this is to take umbrage at
a remark which is not meant as a personal slight. But I don't think you
are likely to do that, being reasonable.
> > Now, my bias is that I remember Salon's more dubious content
> > gatekeeping, including the notorious "day pass" system, where you got to
> > read Salon for a day after you watched a 30-second ad. That was so
> > annoying that when I got caught in the day pass trap by following a link
> > (I'm a slow learner; this happened a few times), I rarely bothered to
> > carry on.
> >
> > That said, I'd still consider that "free" access to the articles; they
> > took 30 seconds of my time, but that is a token amount of time per day.
> > Nonetheless, I had better things to do, so I didn't take up the free
> > offer.
> >
> > You may have a similar objection to the NYT registration, but it hardly
> > disqualifies the article archive from being "free."
>
> We already know we have different ideas of `free.'
>
> > And you need only register once!
>
> And ever afterwards all information is automatically forwarded
> and logged, freeing more of my valuable time.
It's very convenient that way.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 02 Oct 2007 05:37:02
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
In article
<rcousine-64A944.19111901102007@news.telus.net >,
Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <rubrum-7806FB.10524501102007@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>,
> Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <rcousine-8D9606.22464229092007@news.telus.net>,
> > Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca> wrote:
[..]
> > > Free as in beer. Your immortal soul
> >
> > No idea what you are talking about here.
>
> D'oh! "Free as in beer" is a common term used (mostly among open source
> nerds) to distinguish things offered without cost from "free as in
> speech," which is things (like open source software) which you which you
> have especially liberal rights over (source examination, modification,
> redistribution), but I don't think it's a proper subset of "free as in
> beer."
I mean about the `soul' part.
--
Michael Press
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 02 Oct 2007 07:25:39
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
In article <rubrum-5BF64E.22370201102007@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com >,
Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net > wrote:
> In article
> <rcousine-64A944.19111901102007@news.telus.net>,
> Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca> wrote:
>
> > In article <rubrum-7806FB.10524501102007@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>,
> > Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >
> > > In article
> > > <rcousine-8D9606.22464229092007@news.telus.net>,
> > > Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca> wrote:
>
> [..]
>
> > > > Free as in beer. Your immortal soul
> > >
> > > No idea what you are talking about here.
> >
> > D'oh! "Free as in beer" is a common term used (mostly among open source
> > nerds) to distinguish things offered without cost from "free as in
> > speech," which is things (like open source software) which you which you
> > have especially liberal rights over (source examination, modification,
> > redistribution), but I don't think it's a proper subset of "free as in
> > beer."
>
> I mean about the `soul' part.
Oh that. I meant only to suggest an equivalency between giving the NYT
your personal data and selling your soul.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 02 Oct 2007 10:47:24
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
In article
<rcousine-98EA13.00253902102007@news.telus.net >,
Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <rubrum-5BF64E.22370201102007@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>,
> Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <rcousine-64A944.19111901102007@news.telus.net>,
> > Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <rubrum-7806FB.10524501102007@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>,
> > > Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > In article
> > > > <rcousine-8D9606.22464229092007@news.telus.net>,
> > > > Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca> wrote:
> >
> > [..]
> >
> > > > > Free as in beer. Your immortal soul
> > > >
> > > > No idea what you are talking about here.
> > >
> > > D'oh! "Free as in beer" is a common term used (mostly among open source
> > > nerds) to distinguish things offered without cost from "free as in
> > > speech," which is things (like open source software) which you which you
> > > have especially liberal rights over (source examination, modification,
> > > redistribution), but I don't think it's a proper subset of "free as in
> > > beer."
> >
> > I mean about the `soul' part.
>
> Oh that. I meant only to suggest an equivalency between giving the NYT
> your personal data and selling your soul.
I still do not know what you are talking about.
--
Michael Press
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 03 Oct 2007 00:17:23
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
In article <rubrum-C24F9E.10472402102007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net >,
Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net > wrote:
> In article
> <rcousine-98EA13.00253902102007@news.telus.net>,
> Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca> wrote:
>
> > In article <rubrum-5BF64E.22370201102007@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>,
> > Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >
> > > In article
> > > <rcousine-64A944.19111901102007@news.telus.net>,
> > > Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > > In article <rubrum-7806FB.10524501102007@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>,
> > > > Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > In article
> > > > > <rcousine-8D9606.22464229092007@news.telus.net>,
> > > > > Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > [..]
> > >
> > > > > > Free as in beer. Your immortal soul
> > > > >
> > > > > No idea what you are talking about here.
> > > >
> > > > D'oh! "Free as in beer" is a common term used (mostly among open source
> > > > nerds) to distinguish things offered without cost from "free as in
> > > > speech," which is things (like open source software) which you which
> > > > you
> > > > have especially liberal rights over (source examination, modification,
> > > > redistribution), but I don't think it's a proper subset of "free as in
> > > > beer."
> > >
> > > I mean about the `soul' part.
> >
> > Oh that. I meant only to suggest an equivalency between giving the NYT
> > your personal data and selling your soul.
>
> I still do not know what you are talking about.
I am embarrassed that it took me until after my last post to get the
joke.
:)
:(
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 30 Sep 2007 10:04:34
From:
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 05:46:43 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca > wrote:
>In article <rubrum-D27699.19590929092007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
> Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> > But at least you didn't stick your lip out, pout, and announce that
>> > _you_ get a registration page when you click on an internet link, as
>> > if you were being badly treated while everyone else had a good time.
>>
>> Snipping from cover, dear Carl.
>>
>> You said it is free. It is not free.
>
>Dear Michael:
>
>Free as in beer. Your immortal soul exists outside the scope of
>economics, and your demographic data (which, I would hasten to point
>out, you can pretty much make up; how much of the Internet claims to
>reside in the Beverly Hills area code?)
I am not sure. I am sure that their phone number is 867-5309.
>And your time! Even if the article was non-gated, your precious,
>valuable time would be required to read it. Does the NYT pay for that?
>Well, do they???
>
>Don't even get me started on the ads beside the content!
>
>Perhaps a "free" good or service means something else in your world, but
>in my world, it generally refers to things which require no monetary
>renumeration for their acquisition. A certain effort may be required to
>complete the exchange (a rebate form, going to the site of the giveaway,
>completion of a registration form) but anything which takes more
>substantial time, effort, or goods is usually classified as barter, not
>free.
>
>I'm pretty sure the NYT articles qualify as free to most reasonable
>observers.
>
>Now, my bias is that I remember Salon's more dubious content
>gatekeeping, including the notorious "day pass" system, where you got to
>read Salon for a day after you watched a 30-second ad. That was so
>annoying that when I got caught in the day pass trap by following a link
>(I'm a slow learner; this happened a few times), I rarely bothered to
>carry on.
>
>That said, I'd still consider that "free" access to the articles; they
>took 30 seconds of my time, but that is a token amount of time per day.
>Nonetheless, I had better things to do, so I didn't take up the free
>offer.
>
>You may have a similar objection to the NYT registration, but it hardly
>disqualifies the article archive from being "free."
>
>And you need only register once!
Or, there is the bugmenot.com option. It's a database of known passwords for
pretty much any registration site you can name.
|
| |
Date: 26 Sep 2007 12:50:50
From: Gary Young
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:46:21 -0600, carlfogel wrote:
> A collect telegram arrived with this link to a long illustrated report
> of the 1897 Interbike, held at Grand Central Palace, New York City:
>
> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E4D81F31E132A25754C0A9649C94669ED7CF
>
> --aluminum-case cyclometers
> --drop-forged human skeletons
> --improved foot pump
> --the new _laminated_ wood rims
> --changeable gears
> --narrow-tread crank hangers (small q-factor)
> --the only positive stroke bicycle bell on the market
> strikes 26 times with one pull of the lever!
> --hot new D-shaped frame tubing for more tire clearance
> --the improved Ray Home Trainer with hand windlass
> --Vimoid anti-flat mixture
> --reversible longer-lasting sprockets
> --square double-drop-forged drilled-out rear stays
> --the Washington bicycle line
> adults: the General, the Lady,
> juveniles: George, Little Hatchet, Martha
> --combination locks that can be opened in the dark
> --helical tubing, 25% stronger than weldless
> --the puncture-proof Ball tire
> --stout new maple handlebars
> --a circular replacement for the diamond frame
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel
No Interbike report would be complete without revealing photos of the
booth girls:
http://woment.mur.at/images/GrazerDamenBicycleClub.jpg
|
| |
Date: 26 Sep 2007 11:52:39
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> A collect telegram arrived with this link to a long illustrated report
> of the 1897 Interbike, held at Grand Central Palace, New York City:
>
> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E4D81F31E132A25754C0A9649C94669ED7CF
>
> --aluminum-case cyclometers
> --drop-forged human skeletons
> --improved foot pump
> --the new _laminated_ wood rims
> --changeable gears
> --narrow-tread crank hangers (small q-factor)
> --the only positive stroke bicycle bell on the market
> strikes 26 times with one pull of the lever!
> --hot new D-shaped frame tubing for more tire clearance
> --the improved Ray Home Trainer with hand windlass
> --Vimoid anti-flat mixture
> --reversible longer-lasting sprockets
> --square double-drop-forged drilled-out rear stays
> --the Washington bicycle line
> adults: the General, the Lady,
> juveniles: George, Little Hatchet, Martha
> --combination locks that can be opened in the dark
> --helical tubing, 25% stronger than weldless
> --the puncture-proof Ball tire
> --stout new maple handlebars
> --a circular replacement for the diamond frame
What? No blue 20 spoke wheels?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | |
Date: 26 Sep 2007 13:20:26
From:
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:52:39 -0500, A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org >
wrote:
>carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>> A collect telegram arrived with this link to a long illustrated report
>> of the 1897 Interbike, held at Grand Central Palace, New York City:
>>
>> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E4D81F31E132A25754C0A9649C94669ED7CF
>>
>> --aluminum-case cyclometers
>> --drop-forged human skeletons
>> --improved foot pump
>> --the new _laminated_ wood rims
>> --changeable gears
>> --narrow-tread crank hangers (small q-factor)
>> --the only positive stroke bicycle bell on the market
>> strikes 26 times with one pull of the lever!
>> --hot new D-shaped frame tubing for more tire clearance
>> --the improved Ray Home Trainer with hand windlass
>> --Vimoid anti-flat mixture
>> --reversible longer-lasting sprockets
>> --square double-drop-forged drilled-out rear stays
>> --the Washington bicycle line
>> adults: the General, the Lady,
>> juveniles: George, Little Hatchet, Martha
>> --combination locks that can be opened in the dark
>> --helical tubing, 25% stronger than weldless
>> --the puncture-proof Ball tire
>> --stout new maple handlebars
>> --a circular replacement for the diamond frame
>
>What? No blue 20 spoke wheels?
Dear Andrew,
"This company [Fairbanks Wood Rim Company of Bradford, Pennsylvania]
says it is the originator of the wood rim and the first introducer of
it. The principal product of the house is the 'laminated' or built-up
rim, on which it holds the original patents. The company shows its
goods in the natural wood, in combination of foreign and domestic
woods of contrasting colors, painted in coach colors enameled, linen
colored, inlaid with expensive imported wood, and decorated in the
most artistic manner."
See Morley Bros. 1916 catalogue for blue wood rims, M2:
http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/morley/37.jpg
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
|
| | | |
Date: 26 Sep 2007 19:27:20
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
>> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>> A collect telegram arrived with this link to a long illustrated report
>>> of the 1897 Interbike, held at Grand Central Palace, New York City:
>>>
>>> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E4D81F31E132A25754C0A9649C94669ED7CF
>>>
>>> --aluminum-case cyclometers
>>> --drop-forged human skeletons
>>> --improved foot pump
>>> --the new _laminated_ wood rims
>>> --changeable gears
>>> --narrow-tread crank hangers (small q-factor)
>>> --the only positive stroke bicycle bell on the market
>>> strikes 26 times with one pull of the lever!
>>> --hot new D-shaped frame tubing for more tire clearance
>>> --the improved Ray Home Trainer with hand windlass
>>> --Vimoid anti-flat mixture
>>> --reversible longer-lasting sprockets
>>> --square double-drop-forged drilled-out rear stays
>>> --the Washington bicycle line
>>> adults: the General, the Lady,
>>> juveniles: George, Little Hatchet, Martha
>>> --combination locks that can be opened in the dark
>>> --helical tubing, 25% stronger than weldless
>>> --the puncture-proof Ball tire
>>> --stout new maple handlebars
>>> --a circular replacement for the diamond frame
> A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> What? No blue 20 spoke wheels?
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> "This company [Fairbanks Wood Rim Company of Bradford, Pennsylvania]
> says it is the originator of the wood rim and the first introducer of
> it. The principal product of the house is the 'laminated' or built-up
> rim, on which it holds the original patents. The company shows its
> goods in the natural wood, in combination of foreign and domestic
> woods of contrasting colors, painted in coach colors enameled, linen
> colored, inlaid with expensive imported wood, and decorated in the
> most artistic manner."
> See Morley Bros. 1916 catalogue for blue wood rims, M2:
> http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/morley/37.jpg
Landotter had it earlier, 'retro is the new modern'
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| |
Date: 26 Sep 2007 12:02:43
From: Jon_C
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
I gotta get me one of those Climax Bells. Imagine my wife's
surprise...
|
| |
Date: 26 Sep 2007 06:18:41
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
In article <seljf394j6jfc2sh570u6jt240guj3hso6@4ax.com >,
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> A collect telegram arrived with this link to a long illustrated report
> of the 1897 Interbike, held at Grand Central Palace, New York City:
>
> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E4D81F31E132A25754C0A9649C94669ED7CF
Oh no. I've unleashed madness!
> --aluminum-case cyclometers
Looking at the illustration, I don't understand why there isn't already
a boutique business making reproduction mechanical cyclometers. A
well-made one, almost without regard to its cost, would be a must-have
accessory for a certain subgenre of cycling aesthetes.
> --drop-forged human skeletons
I think you're making that up. [reads further...] You didn't make that
up!
But I do noitce that several times they get excited about "dust-proof
bearings." How lucky we are to live in an era when it is such a constant
in our lives that we can take for granted the miracle of dust-proof
bearings!
Well, at least I think we can. My bearings certainly don't seem to get
dusty...
> --the only positive stroke bicycle bell on the market
> strikes 26 times with one pull of the lever!
> --hot new D-shaped frame tubing for more tire clearance
> --the improved Ray Home Trainer with hand windlass
> --Vimoid anti-flat mixture
[moving this into place...]
> --the puncture-proof Ball tire
And here we are 110 years later, and this was shown at Interbike today:
http://velonews.com/slideshow.php?article_id=13377&image_id=20648&dir=/im
ages/report/
"Those familiar with off-road dirt bike competition will know that Tire
Balls are small air chambers that fill out a tire in lieu of a tube.
Theyre more puncture resistant and allow tires to stay in service even
with major sidewall gashes."
Complete Day 1 report:
http://velonews.com/tech/report/articles/13377.0.html
> --reversible longer-lasting sprockets
> --square double-drop-forged drilled-out rear stays
Somehow you missed out on noticing Richmond bicycles' "two-piece crank,"
an idea that eventually stayed.
> --the Washington bicycle line
> adults: the General, the Lady,
> juveniles: George, Little Hatchet, Martha
The Andrae tandem illustration was gorgeous. But I may not be able to
end my days until I own a Washington General bicycle. Though I don't
like it's chances if NYCBikes starts building a Globetrotter model....
> --combination locks that can be opened in the dark
> --helical tubing, 25% stronger than weldless
> --stout new maple handlebars
> --a circular replacement for the diamond frame
I was momentarily thrown by the sub-hed "Pierce Ladies' Wheels" (no, I
did not think it was imperative). Then I remembered that "wheel" was a
synonym for the entire bike ("wheelmen"...) and understood.
The familiar names were fascinating: Columbia bicycles, Brooks saddles,
Yale locks, New Departure bells...
And boy, they sure did like putting holes in the middle of those hygenic
saddles, didn't they?
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | |
Date: 27 Sep 2007 04:40:12
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> ....
> Looking at the illustration, I don't understand why there isn't already
> a boutique business making reproduction mechanical cyclometers. A
> well-made one, almost without regard to its cost, would be a must-have
> accessory for a certain subgenre of cycling aesthetes.
> ....
As a matter of my late excursion into motorized bicycles, I have found
that a lot of people try for a "retro" look, and want an analog
speedometer. The only cheap cable-operated speedometers tend not to hold
up long at 30 mph it seems.
I am casually searching for an EASY way to convert them to self-powered
electrical operation.
~
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Sep 2007 14:36:40
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
In article <KSKKi.277$M31.32@newsfe06.lga >,
DougC <dcimper@norcom2000.com > wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > ....
> > Looking at the illustration, I don't understand why there isn't already
> > a boutique business making reproduction mechanical cyclometers. A
> > well-made one, almost without regard to its cost, would be a must-have
> > accessory for a certain subgenre of cycling aesthetes.
> > ....
>
> As a matter of my late excursion into motorized bicycles, I have found
> that a lot of people try for a "retro" look, and want an analog
> speedometer. The only cheap cable-operated speedometers tend not to hold
> up long at 30 mph it seems.
>
> I am casually searching for an EASY way to convert them to self-powered
> electrical operation.
> ~
Use the guts from a modern sportbike tachometer, as they are pretty much
all a design using an analog hand driven by a stepper motor, and pay an
EE student to write the code to drive the motor from the data it gets
from the magnetic speed sensor.
Not really easy, but it may be the easiest,
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Sep 2007 14:17:43
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>
> Use the guts from a modern sportbike tachometer, as they are pretty much
> all a design using an analog hand driven by a stepper motor, and pay an
> EE student to write the code to drive the motor from the data it gets
> from the magnetic speed sensor.
>
> Not really easy, but it may be the easiest,
>
That's not self-powered. All the motorcycle and car gauges need external
power, that most bicycles don't have.
I'm thinking more along the lines of using a voltmeter/ammeter gauge
movement set into a speedometer dial, to measure the electricity given
off by a regular magnet/spoke arrangement.
The main problem I am having right off is that most electrical meter
movements only sweep about 90 degrees at most, while most bicycle
speedometers sweep about 135 degrees.
~
|
| | | | | |
Date: 28 Sep 2007 04:24:52
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
In article <7kTKi.37$HU7.17@newsfe12.lga >,
DougC <dcimper@norcom2000.com > wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> >
> > Use the guts from a modern sportbike tachometer, as they are pretty much
> > all a design using an analog hand driven by a stepper motor, and pay an
> > EE student to write the code to drive the motor from the data it gets
> > from the magnetic speed sensor.
> >
> > Not really easy, but it may be the easiest,
> >
>
> That's not self-powered. All the motorcycle and car gauges need external
> power, that most bicycles don't have.
>
> I'm thinking more along the lines of using a voltmeter/ammeter gauge
> movement set into a speedometer dial, to measure the electricity given
> off by a regular magnet/spoke arrangement.
>
> The main problem I am having right off is that most electrical meter
> movements only sweep about 90 degrees at most, while most bicycle
> speedometers sweep about 135 degrees.
Gearing?
Or you could just do the super-easy thing, and adapt the mechanical
drive from the still-widespread (at least in junkyards) non-electronic
speedos. These use a cable drive from the wheel to the speedo to turn a
magnet at the top of the cable. That magnet is spinning just inside a
conductor, which is attached to the speedo needle and a calibrated
spring. As speed increases, the magnet is able to drive harder against
the resistance of the spring, making the needle point at higher speeds.
Before electrical speedos became both cheaper and better, the makers got
pretty good at calibrating these things, but it's quartz watches versus
mechanical ones, more or less literally.
This page on BMW speedo adjustment is good at describing the basics, but
it is in cached form only:
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:tNJqZ9ox8gUJ:home.jtan.com/~joe/speed
o.htm+mechanical+speedometer&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&client=safari
And that link contains metadata about my search.
Or maybe this speed pulse generator for cable driven applications:
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=242/
prd242.htm
It's a D-A converter for speedos :).
I understand the impulse to make an electricity-free speedo, but
electricity is easily available on most bikes in small quantities,
either via a wheel-powered generator or a battery.
Speaking of wheel gens, anyone had positive or negative experience with
spoke-driven generators? Seems easier than a hub, and more efficient
than a tire drive.
Halfway down the page:
http://www.bicycledoctor.gbr.fm/40020/info.php?p=2
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | |
Date: 26 Sep 2007 00:44:53
From:
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 06:18:41 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca >
wrote:
>In article <seljf394j6jfc2sh570u6jt240guj3hso6@4ax.com>,
> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>
>> A collect telegram arrived with this link to a long illustrated report
>> of the 1897 Interbike, held at Grand Central Palace, New York City:
>>
>> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E4D81F31E132A25754C0A9649C94669ED7CF
>
>Oh no. I've unleashed madness!
[snip]
>> --drop-forged human skeletons
>I think you're making that up. [reads further...] You didn't make that
>up!
[snip]
>The Andrae tandem illustration was gorgeous.
[snip]
Dear Ryan,
I _never_ make up stuff about drop-forged human skeletons.
Limiting myself to just the gorgeous tandem side of things, the
previous Interbike of 1896 gushed about sextuplet tandems, starting
with the Stearns and moving on to the Fowler:
"The Stearns sextuplet, the greatest member of the Yellow Fellow
family, has two twenty-eight-inch wheels fitted with a pair or
two-inch Palmer tires, weighing ten pounds; six and one-half-inch
cranks, 120inch gear, and weighs 137 pounds. It is a front steerer,
the five rear men merely using dummy handles. There are two main
driving chains in the center of the frame, and the two rear sprockets
are twelve inches in diameter, and are placed on each side of the
frame, the object being to avoid the tremendous side pull, which is
inevitable. . . ."
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9406EED7153EE333A25752C2A9679C94679ED7CF
Without the chain arrangement, I expect that a modern powermeter would
go crazy as six men heaved on the high-tension high-gearing and tried
to accelerate a thousand pounds of sextuplet bicycle and riders.
At the top of this page is a gorgeously displayed Opel
quintuple-tandem from 1895:
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=rzyi&page_id=40622&v=9C
Page down past the chainless bike with its tied-and-soldered spokes,
and there's the bonus of a nice old bamboo bike. I wonder if it's
actually the fake bamboo (steel) mentioned elsewhere.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
|
| | | |
Date: 26 Sep 2007 00:21:30
From: Ted Bennett
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>> A collect telegram arrived with this link to a long illustrated report
>> of the 1897 Interbike, held at Grand Central Palace, New York City:
>>http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E4D81F31E132A25754C0
A964 9C94669ED7CF
Carl, I do hope that your excellent search skills will soon be bringing
us to a report of the 2117 Interbike, to be held at the Corn Palace,
Mitchell SD.
Perhaps a sampling of some of the shouting at the ol' r.b.t.
--
Ted Bennett
|
| | | | |
Date: 26 Sep 2007 02:06:17
From:
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 00:21:30 -0700, Ted Bennett
<tedbennett@earthlink.net > wrote:
>carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>
>>> A collect telegram arrived with this link to a long illustrated report
>>> of the 1897 Interbike, held at Grand Central Palace, New York City:
>
>>>http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E4D81F31E132A25754C0
>A964 9C94669ED7CF
>
>
>
>Carl, I do hope that your excellent search skills will soon be bringing
>us to a report of the 2117 Interbike, to be held at the Corn Palace,
>Mitchell SD.
>
>Perhaps a sampling of some of the shouting at the ol' r.b.t.
Dear Ted,
The technology to be presented at Interbike 2117 is already being
worked out.
It's a little slow, but the prototype spells doom for our antiquated
human concepts of cycling.
Behold bicycling's future!
http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=741
Play the movie, air-breather!
I, for one, welcome our finned overlords!
A world without bicycling fish is like a fish without a bi--
Er, we're still working on the slogan.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
|
| | | | | |
Date: 27 Sep 2007 03:57:01
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
In article <304kf3thr755mkeakd41l70c0hegeecbhc@4ax.com >,
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 00:21:30 -0700, Ted Bennett
> <tedbennett@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> >
> >>> A collect telegram arrived with this link to a long illustrated report
> >>> of the 1897 Interbike, held at Grand Central Palace, New York City:
> >
> >>>http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E4D81F31E132A25754C0
> >A964 9C94669ED7CF
> >
> >
> >
> >Carl, I do hope that your excellent search skills will soon be bringing
> >us to a report of the 2117 Interbike, to be held at the Corn Palace,
> >Mitchell SD.
> >
> >Perhaps a sampling of some of the shouting at the ol' r.b.t.
>
> Dear Ted,
>
> The technology to be presented at Interbike 2117 is already being
> worked out.
>
> It's a little slow, but the prototype spells doom for our antiquated
> human concepts of cycling.
>
> Behold bicycling's future!
>
> http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=741
>
> Play the movie, air-breather!
Hah. I'll never be able to find it (though someone here may recognize
the story) but I remember reading an short science fiction story about a
bicycle race in space.
It's as real as a drop-forged skeleton: the premise was that the
"bicycles" used pedal-powered ion drives (I forget the exact details,
but this seems like a theoretically possible, albeit nonsensically
impractical, drive system).
The fun feature was that while the races were point-to-point, the rule
was that you had to dock at the end of the course with less than a
certain amount of velocity, so the competitors ended up spending half
their time accelerating their spacebikes, at which point they had to
flip their drive around and pedal just as hard in the second half to
decelerate.
Whatever you do, don't turn in a negative split,
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 26 Sep 2007 23:02:20
From:
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 03:57:01 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca >
wrote:
>In article <304kf3thr755mkeakd41l70c0hegeecbhc@4ax.com>,
> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 00:21:30 -0700, Ted Bennett
>> <tedbennett@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> >carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>> >
>> >>> A collect telegram arrived with this link to a long illustrated report
>> >>> of the 1897 Interbike, held at Grand Central Palace, New York City:
>> >
>> >>>http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E4D81F31E132A25754C0
>> >A964 9C94669ED7CF
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Carl, I do hope that your excellent search skills will soon be bringing
>> >us to a report of the 2117 Interbike, to be held at the Corn Palace,
>> >Mitchell SD.
>> >
>> >Perhaps a sampling of some of the shouting at the ol' r.b.t.
>>
>> Dear Ted,
>>
>> The technology to be presented at Interbike 2117 is already being
>> worked out.
>>
>> It's a little slow, but the prototype spells doom for our antiquated
>> human concepts of cycling.
>>
>> Behold bicycling's future!
>>
>> http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=741
>>
>> Play the movie, air-breather!
>
>Hah. I'll never be able to find it (though someone here may recognize
>the story) but I remember reading an short science fiction story about a
>bicycle race in space.
>
>It's as real as a drop-forged skeleton: the premise was that the
>"bicycles" used pedal-powered ion drives (I forget the exact details,
>but this seems like a theoretically possible, albeit nonsensically
>impractical, drive system).
>
>The fun feature was that while the races were point-to-point, the rule
>was that you had to dock at the end of the course with less than a
>certain amount of velocity, so the competitors ended up spending half
>their time accelerating their spacebikes, at which point they had to
>flip their drive around and pedal just as hard in the second half to
>decelerate.
>
>Whatever you do, don't turn in a negative split,
Dear Ryan,
Probably "The Grand Tour" by Charles Sheffield, available in such
anthologies listed on www.bookfinder.com as:
"Endless Frontiers, Volume IV: Life Among the Asteroids" (edited by
Jerry Pournelle and John F. Carr, about $6 including shipping.
Or "Project Solar Sail" edited by CLARKE, ARTHUR C. & BRIN, DAVID,
about $4 including shipping.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 27 Sep 2007 05:59:46
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
In article <4sdmf3ht6jttq42j1ckl6cdcc6ts9tbe2c@4ax.com >,
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 03:57:01 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <304kf3thr755mkeakd41l70c0hegeecbhc@4ax.com>,
> > carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 00:21:30 -0700, Ted Bennett
> >> <tedbennett@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>> A collect telegram arrived with this link to a long illustrated report
> >> >>> of the 1897 Interbike, held at Grand Central Palace, New York City:
> >> >
> >> >>>http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E4D81F31E132A25754C0
> >> >A964 9C94669ED7CF
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Carl, I do hope that your excellent search skills will soon be bringing
> >> >us to a report of the 2117 Interbike, to be held at the Corn Palace,
> >> >Mitchell SD.
> >> >
> >> >Perhaps a sampling of some of the shouting at the ol' r.b.t.
> >>
> >> Dear Ted,
> >>
> >> The technology to be presented at Interbike 2117 is already being
> >> worked out.
> >>
> >> It's a little slow, but the prototype spells doom for our antiquated
> >> human concepts of cycling.
> >>
> >> Behold bicycling's future!
> >>
> >> http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=741
> >>
> >> Play the movie, air-breather!
> >
> >Hah. I'll never be able to find it (though someone here may recognize
> >the story) but I remember reading an short science fiction story about a
> >bicycle race in space.
> >
> >It's as real as a drop-forged skeleton: the premise was that the
> >"bicycles" used pedal-powered ion drives (I forget the exact details,
> >but this seems like a theoretically possible, albeit nonsensically
> >impractical, drive system).
> >
> >The fun feature was that while the races were point-to-point, the rule
> >was that you had to dock at the end of the course with less than a
> >certain amount of velocity, so the competitors ended up spending half
> >their time accelerating their spacebikes, at which point they had to
> >flip their drive around and pedal just as hard in the second half to
> >decelerate.
> >
> >Whatever you do, don't turn in a negative split,
>
> Dear Ryan,
>
> Probably "The Grand Tour" by Charles Sheffield, available in such
> anthologies listed on www.bookfinder.com as:
>
> "Endless Frontiers, Volume IV: Life Among the Asteroids" (edited by
> Jerry Pournelle and John F. Carr, about $6 including shipping.
>
> Or "Project Solar Sail" edited by CLARKE, ARTHUR C. & BRIN, DAVID,
> about $4 including shipping.
Extraordinary! And such quick service!
Not only is that probably the book, "Project Solar Sail" is very likely
the anthology in which I found this story.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | | | |
Date: 26 Sep 2007 16:38:29
From: Dorfus Dippintush
Subject: Re: Seldom Browndt's 1897 Interbike Report
|
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>
> The technology to be presented at Interbike 2117 is already being
> worked out.
>
> It's a little slow, but the prototype spells doom for our antiquated
> human concepts of cycling.
>
> Behold bicycling's future!
>
> http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=741
>
> Play the movie, air-breather!
>
> I, for one, welcome our finned overlords!
>
> A world without bicycling fish is like a fish without a bi--
>
> Er, we're still working on the slogan.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel
I think a fish would get bored pretty quickly in a room like that. I
imagine a fish would like to get out a bit, maybe a good mountain bike
trail or go see a movie.
Dorfus
|
|
