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Main
Date: 23 Oct 2007 10:58:56
From: Nick Payne
Subject: Shimano Deore XT goes down market
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I purchased a current model Deore XT rear derailleur a few weeks ago to
go on a touring bike. Wasn't until I came to fit it today that I noticed
that there is no longer a barrel adjuster fitted where the cable housing
enters the derailleur. Reading the the instructions shows that any
adjustment is intended to be done at the STI lever on the handlebars. All
very well for an MTB with the adjustment at the lever, but for a touring
bike there is no adjustment at the lever with either STI or barcons, and
this frame just has cable stops brazed on the downtube with no provision
for adjustment there either.
I just had a look on the Shimano web site and it looks like Deore LX and
below still have the adjuster on the RD but XT and XTR do not.
Luckily I scrounged the barrel adjuster off an old dead RD which was a
good fit (with locktite) to the new one...
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Date: 25 Oct 2007 15:46:25
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Shimano Deore XT goes down market
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On Oct 25, 2:22 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> >>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >>>>>> Never understood why you need two places to adjust the derailleur. I
> >>>>>> would skip the shifter side though.
> >>>>> Exactly. It invites you to fiddle while riding, which usually makes
> >>>>> things worse.
> >>>> Actually, from the service end of things, we like to have a way to adjust
> >>>> cable tension while riding. Sometimes what works in the stand isn't the same
> >>>> as what works when you're riding, so being able to do it on the fly can be
> >>>> very handy.
> >> Lou Holtman <lholremovet...@planet.nl> wrote:
> >>> Is getting of the bike for a few moments too much trouble?
> > Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >> Yes. When I make adjustments it is tedious stopping and
> >> adjusting. I have much trouble getting the bars exactly
> >> perpendicular to the bicycle centerline. I know when it
> >> is catterwonky while riding, but not when I am adjusting,
> >> danggummit!
> Hank Wirtz wrote:
> > Still, is that an adjustment you'd WANT to make while riding? Maybe
> > you're better at riding no-hands than me.
>
> I'm reporting not advocating, but now that it's possible it is trendy
> and popular. Many riders ditz with their cable adjusters while riding.
> --
How do you feel about the stem adjustment while riding that MP seems
to long for?
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Date: 26 Oct 2007 09:12:51
From: M-gineering
Subject: Re: Shimano Deore XT goes down market
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Hank Wirtz wrote:
> How do you feel about the stem adjustment while riding that MP seems
> to long for?
>
fine with me: loosen the stem slightly and whack the bar. Retighten.
Now adjusting the saddle while on the move is much more difficult. Even
for experienced mechanics it takes a long time, often long enough for
the DS to catch up with the group in front ;)
--
/Marten
info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
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Date: 26 Oct 2007 04:15:44
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Shimano Deore XT goes down market
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>> I'm reporting not advocating, but now that it's possible it is trendy
>> and popular. Many riders ditz with their cable adjusters while riding.
>> --
>
> How do you feel about the stem adjustment while riding that MP seems
> to long for?
I was kinda hoping I'd mis-read that!
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"Hank Wirtz" <hank@wirtznet.net > wrote in message
news:1193352385.312194.219490@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 25, 2:22 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> >>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> >>>>>> Never understood why you need two places to adjust the derailleur.
>> >>>>>> I
>> >>>>>> would skip the shifter side though.
>> >>>>> Exactly. It invites you to fiddle while riding, which usually makes
>> >>>>> things worse.
>> >>>> Actually, from the service end of things, we like to have a way to
>> >>>> adjust
>> >>>> cable tension while riding. Sometimes what works in the stand isn't
>> >>>> the same
>> >>>> as what works when you're riding, so being able to do it on the fly
>> >>>> can be
>> >>>> very handy.
>> >> Lou Holtman <lholremovet...@planet.nl> wrote:
>> >>> Is getting of the bike for a few moments too much trouble?
>> > Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> >> Yes. When I make adjustments it is tedious stopping and
>> >> adjusting. I have much trouble getting the bars exactly
>> >> perpendicular to the bicycle centerline. I know when it
>> >> is catterwonky while riding, but not when I am adjusting,
>> >> danggummit!
>> Hank Wirtz wrote:
>> > Still, is that an adjustment you'd WANT to make while riding? Maybe
>> > you're better at riding no-hands than me.
>>
>> I'm reporting not advocating, but now that it's possible it is trendy
>> and popular. Many riders ditz with their cable adjusters while riding.
>> --
>
> How do you feel about the stem adjustment while riding that MP seems
> to long for?
>
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Date: 26 Oct 2007 05:04:57
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Shimano Deore XT goes down market
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In article
<QRdUi.36863$eY.11237@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net >,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
> >> I'm reporting not advocating, but now that it's possible it is trendy
> >> and popular. Many riders ditz with their cable adjusters while riding.
> >> --
> >
> > How do you feel about the stem adjustment while riding that MP seems
> > to long for?
>
> I was kinda hoping I'd mis-read that!
I'm just sayin' ...
--
Michael Press
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Date: 25 Oct 2007 14:30:28
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Shimano Deore XT goes down market
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On Oct 25, 4:22 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> >>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >>>>>> Never understood why you need two places to adjust the derailleur. I
> >>>>>> would skip the shifter side though.
> >>>>> Exactly. It invites you to fiddle while riding, which usually makes
> >>>>> things worse.
> >>>> Actually, from the service end of things, we like to have a way to adjust
> >>>> cable tension while riding. Sometimes what works in the stand isn't the same
> >>>> as what works when you're riding, so being able to do it on the fly can be
> >>>> very handy.
> >> Lou Holtman <lholremovet...@planet.nl> wrote:
> >>> Is getting of the bike for a few moments too much trouble?
> > Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >> Yes. When I make adjustments it is tedious stopping and
> >> adjusting. I have much trouble getting the bars exactly
> >> perpendicular to the bicycle centerline. I know when it
> >> is catterwonky while riding, but not when I am adjusting,
> >> danggummit!
> Hank Wirtz wrote:
> > Still, is that an adjustment you'd WANT to make while riding? Maybe
> > you're better at riding no-hands than me.
>
> I'm reporting not advocating, but now that it's possible it is trendy
> and popular. Many riders ditz with their cable adjusters while riding.
And said "ditzing" often leads to a completely maladjusted
drivetrain. :(
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Date: 25 Oct 2007 14:09:24
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Shimano Deore XT goes down market
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On Oct 25, 12:07 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net > wrote:
> In article
> <4720cd16$0$25475$9a622...@news.kpnplanet.nl>,
> Lou Holtman <lholremovet...@planet.nl> wrote:
>
> > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> > >>> Never understood why you need two places to adjust the derailleur. I
> > >>> would skip the shifter side though.
>
> > >> Exactly. It invites you to fiddle while riding, which usually makes
> > >> things worse.
>
> > > Actually, from the service end of things, we like to have a way to adjust
> > > cable tension while riding. Sometimes what works in the stand isn't the same
> > > as what works when you're riding, so being able to do it on the fly can be
> > > very handy.
>
> > Is getting of the bike for a few moments too much trouble?
>
> Yes. When I make adjustments it is tedious stopping and
> adjusting. I have much trouble getting the bars exactly
> perpendicular to the bicycle centerline. I know when it
> is catterwonky while riding, but not when I am adjusting,
> danggummit!
>
> --
> Michael Press
Still, is that an adjustment you'd WANT to make while riding? Maybe
you're better at riding no-hands than me.
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Date: 25 Oct 2007 16:22:27
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Shimano Deore XT goes down market
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>>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>>>> Never understood why you need two places to adjust the derailleur. I
>>>>>> would skip the shifter side though.
>>>>> Exactly. It invites you to fiddle while riding, which usually makes
>>>>> things worse.
>>>> Actually, from the service end of things, we like to have a way to adjust
>>>> cable tension while riding. Sometimes what works in the stand isn't the same
>>>> as what works when you're riding, so being able to do it on the fly can be
>>>> very handy.
>> Lou Holtman <lholremovet...@planet.nl> wrote:
>>> Is getting of the bike for a few moments too much trouble?
> Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> Yes. When I make adjustments it is tedious stopping and
>> adjusting. I have much trouble getting the bars exactly
>> perpendicular to the bicycle centerline. I know when it
>> is catterwonky while riding, but not when I am adjusting,
>> danggummit!
Hank Wirtz wrote:
> Still, is that an adjustment you'd WANT to make while riding? Maybe
> you're better at riding no-hands than me.
I'm reporting not advocating, but now that it's possible it is trendy
and popular. Many riders ditz with their cable adjusters while riding.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 25 Oct 2007 06:49:28
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Shimano Deore XT goes down market
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On Oct 25, 1:06 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
> >> Never understood why you need two places to adjust the derailleur. I
> >> would skip the shifter side though.
>
> > Exactly. It invites you to fiddle while riding, which usually makes
> > things worse.
>
> Actually, from the service end of things, we like to have a way to adjust
> cable tension while riding. Sometimes what works in the stand isn't the same
> as what works when you're riding, so being able to do it on the fly can be
> very handy.
>
If only there were a way to discourage "user adjustments" by the
unschooled.
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Date: 24 Oct 2007 12:34:00
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com
Subject: Re: Shimano Deore XT goes down market
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On Oct 24, 8:02 am, Reid <rra...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.comwrote:
> [snip]
>
> > It wasn't a 'low normal' RD?? Many of those don't have a barrell
> > adjuster..the last 'high norma;' Deore RD DID have a barrell adjusted
> > on the RD.
>
> What's a low normal v. a high normal? Why wouldn't a low normal have a
> barrel adjuster? Thanks.
Don't know, ask shimano..some don't tho-
Low normal is where w/o the cable attached, the RD upper pulley is
under the biggest(lowest) cog, not the smallest(highest) cog.
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Date: 24 Oct 2007 08:20:36
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Shimano Deore XT goes down market
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On Oct 24, 7:02 am, Reid <rra...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.comwrote:
> [snip]
>
> > It wasn't a 'low normal' RD?? Many of those don't have a barrell
> > adjuster..the last 'high norma;' Deore RD DID have a barrell adjusted
> > on the RD.
>
> What's a low normal v. a high normal? Why wouldn't a low normal have a
> barrel adjuster? Thanks.
AKA Rapid-Rise vs. traditional...On a low-normal (Rapid-Rise), the
spring pushes away from the hanger towards the spokes, so the default
position is in a low gear. Top-Normal or high-normal has the spring
pull towards the hanger, and the default is your top gear. At least
95% of all RDs ever made are top-normal.
No design reason not to have an adjuster on a low-normal RD, other
than weight shaving. And FWIW, I can't find an example of a post-
indexing XT rear without the adjuster, although XTR has left them off
since RD-M960, which was low-normal only (those who wanted top-normal
were directed to RD-M953, which had an adjuster).
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Date: 24 Oct 2007 17:11:55
From: James Thomson
Subject: Re: Shimano Deore XT goes down market
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"Nick Payne" <someone@nowhere.au > a écrit:
> I purchased a current model Deore XT rear derailleur a few weeks ago to
> go on a touring bike. Wasn't until I came to fit it today that I noticed
> that there is no longer a barrel adjuster fitted where the cable housing
> enters the derailleur. Reading the the instructions shows that any
> adjustment is intended to be done at the STI lever on the handlebars. All
> very well for an MTB with the adjustment at the lever, but for a touring
> bike there is no adjustment at the lever with either STI or barcons, and
> this frame just has cable stops brazed on the downtube with no provision
> for adjustment there either.
>
> I just had a look on the Shimano web site and it looks like Deore LX and
> below still have the adjuster on the RD but XT and XTR do not.
So in fact XT has gone up market!
I have an 8-speed XTR Rapid-Rise mid-cage rear mech with no barrel adjuster,
that I used with Ergo levers. My solution was to put an in-line barrel
adjuster in the cable loop between the lever and the frame. It worked, but
was a pain to adjust the indexing as you can't eyeball the cassette and
adjust the cable at the same time. Perhaps an Orangutan could.
James Thomson
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Date: 24 Oct 2007 07:56:06
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Shimano Deore XT goes down market
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On Oct 24, 4:57 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
<pe...@vecchios.com > wrote:
> On Oct 23, 4:58 am, Nick Payne <some...@nowhere.au> wrote:
>
> > I purchased a current model Deore XT rear derailleur a few weeks ago to
> > go on a touring bike. Wasn't until I came to fit it today that I noticed
> > that there is no longer a barrel adjuster fitted where the cable housing
> > enters the derailleur. Reading the the instructions shows that any
> > adjustment is intended to be done at the STI lever on the handlebars. All
> > very well for an MTB with the adjustment at the lever, but for a touring
> > bike there is no adjustment at the lever with either STI or barcons, and
> > this frame just has cable stops brazed on the downtube with no provision
> > for adjustment there either.
>
> > I just had a look on the Shimano web site and it looks like Deore LX and
> > below still have the adjuster on the RD but XT and XTR do not.
>
> > Luckily I scrounged the barrel adjuster off an old dead RD which was a
> > good fit (with locktite) to the new one...
>
> It wasn't a 'low normal' RD?? Many of those don't have a barrell
> adjuster..the last 'high norma;' Deore RD DID have a barrell adjusted
> on the RD.
None of the new RD-M77x series have an adjuster.
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Date: 24 Oct 2007 04:57:00
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com
Subject: Re: Shimano Deore XT goes down market
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On Oct 23, 4:58 am, Nick Payne <some...@nowhere.au > wrote:
> I purchased a current model Deore XT rear derailleur a few weeks ago to
> go on a touring bike. Wasn't until I came to fit it today that I noticed
> that there is no longer a barrel adjuster fitted where the cable housing
> enters the derailleur. Reading the the instructions shows that any
> adjustment is intended to be done at the STI lever on the handlebars. All
> very well for an MTB with the adjustment at the lever, but for a touring
> bike there is no adjustment at the lever with either STI or barcons, and
> this frame just has cable stops brazed on the downtube with no provision
> for adjustment there either.
>
> I just had a look on the Shimano web site and it looks like Deore LX and
> below still have the adjuster on the RD but XT and XTR do not.
>
> Luckily I scrounged the barrel adjuster off an old dead RD which was a
> good fit (with locktite) to the new one...
It wasn't a 'low normal' RD?? Many of those don't have a barrell
adjuster..the last 'high norma;' Deore RD DID have a barrell adjusted
on the RD.
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Date: 24 Oct 2007 08:02:59
From: Reid
Subject: Re: Shimano Deore XT goes down market
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Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com wrote:
[snip]
> It wasn't a 'low normal' RD?? Many of those don't have a barrell
> adjuster..the last 'high norma;' Deore RD DID have a barrell adjusted
> on the RD.
What's a low normal v. a high normal? Why wouldn't a low normal have a
barrel adjuster? Thanks.
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Date: 23 Oct 2007 20:45:23
From: Lou Holtman
Subject: Re: Shimano Deore XT goes down market
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Nick Payne wrote:
> I purchased a current model Deore XT rear derailleur a few weeks ago to
> go on a touring bike. Wasn't until I came to fit it today that I noticed
> that there is no longer a barrel adjuster fitted where the cable housing
> enters the derailleur. Reading the the instructions shows that any
> adjustment is intended to be done at the STI lever on the handlebars. All
> very well for an MTB with the adjustment at the lever, but for a touring
> bike there is no adjustment at the lever with either STI or barcons, and
> this frame just has cable stops brazed on the downtube with no provision
> for adjustment there either.
>
> I just had a look on the Shimano web site and it looks like Deore LX and
> below still have the adjuster on the RD but XT and XTR do not.
>
> Luckily I scrounged the barrel adjuster off an old dead RD which was a
> good fit (with locktite) to the new one...
Never understood why you need two places to adjust the derailleur. I
would skip the shifter side though.
Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu (http://www.nb.nu)
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Date: 23 Oct 2007 13:06:22
From: Duncan Smith
Subject: Re: Shimano Deore XT goes down market
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>
> > Luckily I scrounged the barrel adjuster off an old dead RD which was a
> > good fit (with locktite) to the new one...
>
> Weight savings technology!
Also means there's no longer space for 'H' and 'L' engravings on the
limit adjustment screws. Not that they're hard to remember or work
out.
Duncan
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Date: 23 Oct 2007 05:10:15
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Shimano Deore XT goes down market
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On Oct 23, 3:58 am, Nick Payne <some...@nowhere.au > wrote:
> I purchased a current model Deore XT rear derailleur a few weeks ago to
> go on a touring bike. Wasn't until I came to fit it today that I noticed
> that there is no longer a barrel adjuster fitted where the cable housing
> enters the derailleur. Reading the the instructions shows that any
> adjustment is intended to be done at the STI lever on the handlebars. All
> very well for an MTB with the adjustment at the lever, but for a touring
> bike there is no adjustment at the lever with either STI or barcons, and
> this frame just has cable stops brazed on the downtube with no provision
> for adjustment there either.
>
> I just had a look on the Shimano web site and it looks like Deore LX and
> below still have the adjuster on the RD but XT and XTR do not.
>
> Luckily I scrounged the barrel adjuster off an old dead RD which was a
> good fit (with locktite) to the new one...
Weight savings technology!
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