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Main
Date: 14 Aug 2007 17:08:16
From: web guy
Subject: Specifications subject to change without notice
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I am in the market for a new road bike. I often browse manufacturer's
web sites for prices and specs on various bikes.
"Specifications subject to change without notice" is a disclaimer I
read on every bike that interests me. How often does the manufacturer
change the published specifications on a bike?
Is this a rare or common occurance.
If a bike is ordered for me by my local shop and it does not match the
specs as published am I obligated to accept the bike?
Terry
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 20:23:14
From: Brian Peppers
Subject: Re: Specifications subject to change without notice
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On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:08:16 -0400, web guy wrote:
> I am in the market for a new road bike. I often browse manufacturer's
> web sites for prices and specs on various bikes.
>
> "Specifications subject to change without notice" is a disclaimer I
> read on every bike that interests me. How often does the manufacturer
> change the published specifications on a bike?
> Is this a rare or common occurance.
>
> If a bike is ordered for me by my local shop and it does not match the
> specs as published am I obligated to accept the bike?
>
Yes, if it included that disclaimer. Only recourse is small claims court.
This disclaimer is increasingnly common with bikes that have a lot of China
sourced parts, for obvious reasons.
The majority of bike shops will stall and give you all manner of
run-around, as it makes more sense to have these issues decided by lawyers,
judges, and class-action.
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 23:51:28
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Specifications subject to change without notice
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> web guy wrote:
>> I am in the market for a new road bike. I often browse manufacturer's
>> web sites for prices and specs on various bikes.
>> "Specifications subject to change without notice" is a disclaimer I
>> read on every bike that interests me. How often does the manufacturer
>> change the published specifications on a bike?
>> Is this a rare or common occurance.
>> If a bike is ordered for me by my local shop and it does not match the
>> specs as published am I obligated to accept the bike?
Brian Peppers wrote:
> Yes, if it included that disclaimer. Only recourse is small claims court.
> This disclaimer is increasingnly common with bikes that have a lot of China
> sourced parts, for obvious reasons.
> The majority of bike shops will stall and give you all manner of
> run-around, as it makes more sense to have these issues decided by lawyers,
> judges, and class-action.
I strenuously disagree.
Small Claims Court or any legal remedy is a complex expensive and
possibly even counterproductive route.
Better, simply do not pay for a bike which is not to your liking. I mean
it. Any attempt to coerce you into prepaying for a bike sight unseen is
a good reason to shop elsewhere. Just like a laptop, car, house, whatever.
If, on the other hand, you do look, touch, test ride the bike, then buy
it, and a hidden or misrepresented problem arises, _then_ the courts
offer you a route to relief _if_ the shop doesn't make you whole when
you ask them. But surely ask them first. Most people are reasonable.
Feckless maybe but reasonable, and usually not guilty of criminal fraud.
You can't be serious that a lawsuit (a class action lawsuit?!) should
precede a request for righting a bicycle part substitution gone awry?!?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 15 Aug 2007 10:31:27
From: Kinky Cowboy
Subject: Re: Specifications subject to change without notice
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On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 23:51:28 -0500, A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org >
wrote:
>> web guy wrote:
>>> I am in the market for a new road bike. I often browse manufacturer's
>>> web sites for prices and specs on various bikes.
>>> "Specifications subject to change without notice" is a disclaimer I
>>> read on every bike that interests me.
>
>Brian Peppers wrote:
>> The majority of bike shops will stall and give you all manner of
>> run-around, as it makes more sense to have these issues decided by lawyers,
>> judges, and class-action.
>
>I strenuously disagree.
>
>Small Claims Court or any legal remedy is a complex expensive and
>possibly even counterproductive route.
>
>Better, simply do not pay for a bike which is not to your liking. I mean
>it. Any attempt to coerce you into prepaying for a bike sight unseen is
>a good reason to shop elsewhere. Just like a laptop, car, house, whatever.
One of the few useful directives to emerge from the EU is the
"Distance Selling Directive"; if you're having to order from a shop an
item they don't have in stock, it's actually much better to do it via
mail order/internet/telephone, because you then have an absolute right
to reject any goods for any reason within 10 days of delivery for a
full refund. Not sure what protection US consumers have, but as a
matter of basic contract law if you include the specifications in your
order, and specifically exclude the mentioned disclaimer, you don't
have to pay for something which isn't what you asked for. Same with
delivery time; specify it, make time of the essence, and you don't
have to pay if the supplier can't fulfil the order within your
specified schedule
Kinky Cowboy*
*Batteries not included
May contain traces of nuts
Your milage may vary
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Date: 15 Aug 2007 00:23:11
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: Specifications subject to change without notice
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Andrew Muzi wrote:
>> web guy wrote:
>>> I am in the market for a new road bike. I often browse manufacturer's
>>> web sites for prices and specs on various bikes.
>>> "Specifications subject to change without notice" is a disclaimer I
>>> read on every bike that interests me. How often does the manufacturer
>>> change the published specifications on a bike?
>>> Is this a rare or common occurance.
>>> If a bike is ordered for me by my local shop and it does not match the
>>> specs as published am I obligated to accept the bike?
>
> Brian Peppers wrote:
>> Yes, if it included that disclaimer. Only recourse is small claims
>> court.
>> This disclaimer is increasingnly common with bikes that have a lot of
>> China
>> sourced parts, for obvious reasons.
>> The majority of bike shops will stall and give you all manner of
>> run-around, as it makes more sense to have these issues decided by
>> lawyers,
>> judges, and class-action.
>
> I strenuously disagree.
>
> Small Claims Court or any legal remedy is a complex expensive and
> possibly even counterproductive route.
>
> Better, simply do not pay for a bike which is not to your liking. I mean
> it. Any attempt to coerce you into prepaying for a bike sight unseen is
> a good reason to shop elsewhere. Just like a laptop, car, house, whatever.
>
> If, on the other hand, you do look, touch, test ride the bike, then buy
> it, and a hidden or misrepresented problem arises, _then_ the courts
> offer you a route to relief _if_ the shop doesn't make you whole when
> you ask them. But surely ask them first. Most people are reasonable.
> Feckless maybe but reasonable, and usually not guilty of criminal fraud.
>
> You can't be serious that a lawsuit (a class action lawsuit?!) should
> precede a request for righting a bicycle part substitution gone awry?!?
Judging by his other posts, it appears that Brian Peppers lives under a
bridge.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition"
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 19:50:58
From: Nate Knutson
Subject: Re: Specifications subject to change without notice
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On Aug 14, 2:08 pm, w_e_b_g_...@webtv.net (web guy) wrote:
> I am in the market for a new road bike. I often browse manufacturer's
> web sites for prices and specs on various bikes.
>
> "Specifications subject to change without notice" is a disclaimer I
> read on every bike that interests me. How often does the manufacturer
> change the published specifications on a bike?
> Is this a rare or common occurance.
>
> If a bike is ordered for me by my local shop and it does not match the
> specs as published am I obligated to accept the bike?
>
> Terry
>From what I've seen, actual relevant component changes from the
advertised specs are pretty infrequent, especially in the cheapening
direction. Changes or random blips involving "commodity-level" items
such as basic tires, stems, seatposts, saddles, etc aren't all that
uncommon to see though, especially on pretty low end bikes.
I think the Shimano component shortages of a few years ago shook
things up quite a bit for some companies. But that's not going on
anymore.
The dealer's policy about this is, and everything else related to your
obligation to accept/buy an ordered bike, is entirely up to them,
although I have no idea what the laws are (probably somewhat in your
favor). Again, if a part does get changed, it's rare for it to be a
downgrade in terms of approximate quality level.
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 20:35:11
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Specifications subject to change without notice
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web guy wrote:
> I am in the market for a new road bike. I often browse manufacturer's
> web sites for prices and specs on various bikes.
> "Specifications subject to change without notice" is a disclaimer I
> read on every bike that interests me. How often does the manufacturer
> change the published specifications on a bike?
> Is this a rare or common occurance.
> If a bike is ordered for me by my local shop and it does not match the
> specs as published am I obligated to accept the bike?
Absolutely not 'obligated'.
Of course if it shows up with a Ti rail saddle rather than CrMo you
might accept it. Frankly, almost no new bikes leave here without
swapping saddle, stem, tires, pedals or some combination thereof.
It isn't 'your' bike until you buy what _you_ want. Until then the
dealer is simply showing you various options.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 18:18:02
From: catzz66
Subject: Re: Specifications subject to change without notice
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web guy wrote:
> I am in the market for a new road bike. I often browse manufacturer's
> web sites for prices and specs on various bikes.
>
> "Specifications subject to change without notice" is a disclaimer I
> read on every bike that interests me. How often does the manufacturer
> change the published specifications on a bike?
> Is this a rare or common occurance.
>
> If a bike is ordered for me by my local shop and it does not match the
> specs as published am I obligated to accept the bike?
> Terry
>
I have seen wheel substitutions with one major brand, but nothing else
that major, though I understand specs are subject change as the selling
season goes on. I would imagine your arrangement would depend on the
local shop's policy. I would personally not agree to buy a bike on
order if I could not specify all the components.
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 18:17:17
From: catzz66
Subject: Re: Specifications subject to change without notice
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web guy wrote:
> I am in the market for a new road bike. I often browse manufacturer's
> web sites for prices and specs on various bikes.
>
> "Specifications subject to change without notice" is a disclaimer I
> read on every bike that interests me. How often does the manufacturer
> change the published specifications on a bike?
> Is this a rare or common occurance.
>
> If a bike is ordered for me by my local shop and it does not match the
> specs as published am I obligated to accept the bike?
> Terry
>
I have seen wheel substitutions with one major brand, but nothing that
major, though I understand specs are subject change as the selling
season goes on. I would imagine your arrangement would depend on the
local shop's policy. I would personally not agree to buy a bike on
order if I could not specify all the components.
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 18:15:50
From: catzz66
Subject: Re: Specifications subject to change without notice
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web guy wrote:
> I am in the market for a new road bike. I often browse manufacturer's
> web sites for prices and specs on various bikes.
>
> "Specifications subject to change without notice" is a disclaimer I
> read on every bike that interests me. How often does the manufacturer
> change the published specifications on a bike?
> Is this a rare or common occurance.
>
> If a bike is ordered for me by my local shop and it does not match the
> specs as published am I obligated to accept the bike?
>
> Terry
>
I have seen wheel substitutions with one major brand, but nothing major
though I understand specs are subject change as the selling season goes
on. I would imagine your arrangement would depend on the local shop's
policy. I would personally not agree to buy a bike on order if I could
not specify all the components.
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