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Main
Date: 07 Jul 2007 11:01:37
From: Just A User
Subject: Spoke quality
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I know this has probably been covered her before, but here it is again.
This morning while out on a moderate intensity ride I heard a familiar
/ping/ noise that I recognized as a spoke breaking. This is the third
spoke I have broken in 2 years. Not what I would call a lot, but more
than I would like. The wheels are inexpensive Alex R500, that came on my
2005 Fuji Ace. The bike isn't great, but good enough for me for now. So
the question is are /aftermarket/ spokes higher quality? Worthwhile to
rebuild the wheels with better spokes or just replace the one that
broke? Should I learn to replace them myself? Or just drop the wheel off
at the LBS and have them do it? I enjoy tinkering with bikes.
Ken
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Date: 17 Jul 2007 21:23:23
From: Zog The Undeniable
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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Just A User wrote:
> I know this has probably been covered her before, but here it is again.
> This morning while out on a moderate intensity ride I heard a familiar
> /ping/ noise that I recognized as a spoke breaking. This is the third
> spoke I have broken in 2 years. Not what I would call a lot, but more
> than I would like. The wheels are inexpensive Alex R500, that came on my
> 2005 Fuji Ace. The bike isn't great, but good enough for me for now. So
> the question is are /aftermarket/ spokes higher quality? Worthwhile to
> rebuild the wheels with better spokes or just replace the one that
> broke? Should I learn to replace them myself? Or just drop the wheel off
> at the LBS and have them do it? I enjoy tinkering with bikes.
>
The only spoke I've ever broken was a galvanized one in a set of cheap
machine-built wheels. I've never broken any on my own wheels, and I
always use DT Competition 2.0/1.8/2.0 (apart from a momentary aberration
when I used Revolution 2.0/1.5/2.0 for a front track wheel - it's my
favourite wheel of all, but it was a pig to tension with all the spoke
twist; I resorted to marking every spoke with sharpie to make sure it
was untwisted by the end).
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Date: 10 Jul 2007 13:42:48
From: Just A User
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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Just A User wrote:
> I know this has probably been covered her before, but here it is again.
> This morning while out on a moderate intensity ride I heard a familiar
> /ping/ noise that I recognized as a spoke breaking. This is the third
> spoke I have broken in 2 years. Not what I would call a lot, but more
> than I would like. The wheels are inexpensive Alex R500, that came on my
> 2005 Fuji Ace. The bike isn't great, but good enough for me for now. So
> the question is are /aftermarket/ spokes higher quality? Worthwhile to
> rebuild the wheels with better spokes or just replace the one that
> broke? Should I learn to replace them myself? Or just drop the wheel off
> at the LBS and have them do it? I enjoy tinkering with bikes.
>
> Ken
Follow up.
Thanks for all the advice. I dropped off the wheel at the LBS this
morning, then two hours later they called and said it was ready to be
picked up. And I bought 3 extra spokes for the next breaks. I gave the
shop where I bought the bike some business. They are worth supporting.
Ken
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Date: 08 Jul 2007 21:35:14
From:
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
> I wonder when Trevor Jeffrey will pop up again to war with Brandt?
Please, one nutjob at a time.
--
Spike
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Date: 08 Jul 2007 23:45:34
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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Spike Nettles wrote:
> Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>
>> I wonder when Trevor Jeffrey will pop up again to war with Brandt?
>
> Please, one nutjob at a time.
>
> --
>
> Spike
Third time the charm?
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 08 Jul 2007 21:32:39
From:
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
> I wonder when Trevor Jeffrey will pop up again to war with Brandt?
Please, one nutjob at a time.
--
Spike Nettles
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Date: 08 Jul 2007 08:44:31
From: Andy Froncioni
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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On Jul 7, 11:01 am, Just A User <k...@up-yours-spammer.net > wrote:
> So
> the question is are /aftermarket/ spokes higher quality? Worthwhile to
> rebuild the wheels with better spokes or just replace the one that
> broke? Should I learn to replace them myself? Or just drop the wheel off
> at the LBS and have them do it? I enjoy tinkering with bikes.
I think your spoke tensions are too low. Spokes usually break due to
being
too loose, the resulting strains leading to metal fatigue. ( Jobst,
help us out
here! ) Cheap wheels are built using machines that don't attain
enough tension.
I would replace the remaining spokes because of the wear they've
probably
already lived through. But make sure you tension up the replacement
spokes
to a reasonable level.
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Date: 08 Jul 2007 11:33:30
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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Just A User wrote:
> I know this has probably been covered her before, but here it is again.
> This morning while out on a moderate intensity ride I heard a familiar
> /ping/ noise that I recognized as a spoke breaking. This is the third
> spoke I have broken in 2 years. Not what I would call a lot, but more
> than I would like. The wheels are inexpensive Alex R500, that came on my
> 2005 Fuji Ace. The bike isn't great, but good enough for me for now. So
> the question is are /aftermarket/ spokes higher quality? Worthwhile to
> rebuild the wheels with better spokes or just replace the one that
> broke? Should I learn to replace them myself? Or just drop the wheel off
> at the LBS and have them do it? I enjoy tinkering with bikes.
>
> Ken
If you enjoy it, by all means replace it yourself, it's not hard.
The only really important thing with spokes is that be "stress
relieved". See Sheldon Brown's site for details.
At his point, I'd just replace the broken spoke and stress relieve the
others and hope for the best, such inexpensive wheels are probably not
worth much bother and you're likely to get many trouble free miles from
them if they're stress relieved.
As an alternative to upgrading those wheels you might consider buying a
new set since those can often be had for substantially less than the
cost of the components to build them. Factory made wheels are often
under tensioned and virtually never stress relieved, but it's a simple
matter to fix those deficiencies with the result being reliable wheels.
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Date: 08 Jul 2007 00:59:21
From:
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
> I wonder when Trevor Jeffrey will pop up again to war with Brandt?
Please.one nutjob at a time.
Spike
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Date: 08 Jul 2007 00:35:05
From: Mike Lackey
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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> This is the third spoke I have broken in 2 years. Not what I would call a
> lot, but more than I would like.
Sheldon says:
"In fact, if you have an old wheel that has been breaking left side spokes,
"half rebuilding" the wheel into a half radial will solve the problem once
and for all."
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#half-radial
Mike Lackey
Madison, AL
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 23:14:20
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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yeah. I whine about teflon wax from Finish Line on the hub's spoke
holes covering/sealing both flange side's spoke holes and spoke heads:
lubes the twisting spoke and seals the joint to dirt entry.
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 15:45:16
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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In article
<m6adnc4j8P1DNxLbnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@giganews.com >,
Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net > wrote:
> I know this has probably been covered her before, but here it is again.
> This morning while out on a moderate intensity ride I heard a familiar
> /ping/ noise that I recognized as a spoke breaking. This is the third
> spoke I have broken in 2 years. Not what I would call a lot, but more
> than I would like. The wheels are inexpensive Alex R500, that came on my
> 2005 Fuji Ace. The bike isn't great, but good enough for me for now. So
> the question is are /aftermarket/ spokes higher quality? Worthwhile to
> rebuild the wheels with better spokes or just replace the one that
> broke? Should I learn to replace them myself? Or just drop the wheel off
> at the LBS and have them do it? I enjoy tinkering with bikes.
Probably the spoke elbows are carrying too much residual stress.
This can be remedied.
First true the wheel and balance the spoke tension.
Remove the tires and rim tape.
Put a drop of oil on each nipple end.
Check the spokes for even tension.
* Pick a spoke next to the valve hole, calling it number 1.
* Ping number 1
* Ping number 2 and compare the pitch.
* Ping number 3 and compare the pitch with number 1.
...
Now you have an idea of tension balance.
Loosen all spokes by a turn or two.
Check radial trueness.
Try to get radial trueness.
Now start truing the wheel, keeping radial trueness.
Check tension balance.
This is a balancing act of keeping the wheel true and tension balanced.
Eventually the spokes will be tight and evenly balanced.
Now stress relieve the spokes.
Best to consult a good reference for this procedure.
Now check for trueness in the wheel again.
Go ride with a mind at rest.
--
Michael Press
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 16:19:16
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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Michael Press wrote:
> In article
> <m6adnc4j8P1DNxLbnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
>
>> I know this has probably been covered her before, but here it is again.
>> This morning while out on a moderate intensity ride I heard a familiar
>> /ping/ noise that I recognized as a spoke breaking. This is the third
>> spoke I have broken in 2 years. Not what I would call a lot, but more
>> than I would like. The wheels are inexpensive Alex R500, that came on my
>> 2005 Fuji Ace. The bike isn't great, but good enough for me for now. So
>> the question is are /aftermarket/ spokes higher quality? Worthwhile to
>> rebuild the wheels with better spokes or just replace the one that
>> broke? Should I learn to replace them myself? Or just drop the wheel off
>> at the LBS and have them do it? I enjoy tinkering with bikes.
>
> Probably the spoke elbows are carrying too much residual stress.
> This can be remedied.
"remedy" for residual stress does not remedy alloy quality or surface
finish quality - both ranking much higher up the actual cause list. but
recognition of real world fatigue causation doesn't offer as much scope
for insertion of fear of the unknown and subsequent heroic mitigation.
> First true the wheel and balance the spoke tension.
>
> Remove the tires and rim tape.
> Put a drop of oil on each nipple end.
> Check the spokes for even tension.
> * Pick a spoke next to the valve hole, calling it number 1.
> * Ping number 1
> * Ping number 2 and compare the pitch.
> * Ping number 3 and compare the pitch with number 1.
> ...
> Now you have an idea of tension balance.
> Loosen all spokes by a turn or two.
> Check radial trueness.
> Try to get radial trueness.
> Now start truing the wheel, keeping radial trueness.
> Check tension balance.
> This is a balancing act of keeping the wheel true and tension balanced.
> Eventually the spokes will be tight and evenly balanced.
> Now stress relieve the spokes.
> Best to consult a good reference for this procedure.
> Now check for trueness in the wheel again.
> Go ride with a mind at rest.
>
"stress relief" builds a wheel where spokes do not lose tension in use
and which therefore stay truer longer. end of story. next thing we'll
see is someone lay claim to invention this long established build
practice, even though it predates their birth. oh, wait....
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 19:47:58
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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the situation becomes a mechanic's analysis:
are the hub spoke holes worn - yes/no
does the rim/axle wobble in the hub - y/n
how many miles are on the hub - 1500 or more y/n
is the last lube/bearing repack more than 3 years ago? y/n
do any of the nipples need replacing - y/n
are the rim's braking surfaces concave - y/n
do you ride in the rain - y/n
is the bike ever left in the rain - y/n
are your riding roads dusty - y/n
if there are more yes than no's then a complete rebuild with new DT or
Sapim spokes/nipples/bearings/grease is the way to go.
but replacing only the spokes showing stress can be done. us a
magnifyer to inspect the inside bend on the spokes huib hook. if
cracks are visible then replace. the bearings should be replaced when
repacking with grease. also inspect the hub inside bearing race for
cracks.
generic spokes are a pain the the butt
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 15:23:19
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
> ...
> generic spokes are a pain the the butt
You are supposed to sit on the saddle, not the spokes!
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 18:09:03
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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In article <468fea07$0$16340$88260bb3@free.teranews.com >,
Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote:
> datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
> > ...
> > generic spokes are a pain the the butt
>
> You are supposed to sit on the saddle, not the spokes!
Huh. Who knew?
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 17:48:22
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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On Jul 7, 12:32 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net > wrote:
> landotter wrote:
> > On Jul 7, 10:01 am, Just A User <k...@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
> >> I know this has probably been covered her before, but here it is again.
> >> This morning while out on a moderate intensity ride I heard a familiar
> >> /ping/ noise that I recognized as a spoke breaking. This is the third
> >> spoke I have broken in 2 years. Not what I would call a lot, but more
> >> than I would like. The wheels are inexpensive Alex R500, that came on my
> >> 2005 Fuji Ace. The bike isn't great, but good enough for me for now. So
> >> the question is are /aftermarket/ spokes higher quality? Worthwhile to
> >> rebuild the wheels with better spokes or just replace the one that
> >> broke? Should I learn to replace them myself? Or just drop the wheel off
> >> at the LBS and have them do it? I enjoy tinkering with bikes.
>
> > That bike is specced with stainless spokes. I very much doubt you have
> > galvanized spokes. I can virtually guarantee you that the spokes
> > aren't up to tension.
>
> there's "stainless" and there's "stainless". high quality spokes are
> made from vacuum degassed steels and with great attention to surface
> quality. cheapo spokes are just made from basic stainless wire with no
> fatigue credentials and without due regard for surface quality. the
> latter you can see with a magnifier if you care to compare.
>
> beyond that, yes, sufficient spoke tension, and even tension
> distribution are important, but they simply cannot prevent spokes of
> poor quality suffering fatigue.
Sure, If it was my wheel and it broke a spoke--after being brought up
to proper tension, I'd certainly respoke with some Sapims, but often
it's the lack of tension that's the dealbreaker. Cheesy spoke + poor
tension = pdink. I've got a set of wheels built with the cheap SS
stuff in front of me. There's one DT in the mix that replaced a popped
one--you can definitely see a different luster in the steels. But
again, that wheel was seriously under tensioned, so a touch of the
wrench, and it's gone many K without complaint. I keep a couple spare
spokes in the hydration pack to keep it that way. It's like carrying
an umbrella on a sunny day. ;-)
I've heard plenty of moaning about the rim the OP uses, btw--but it
invariably seems that the problem is that it's used on lower priced
bikes, with crappily built wheels and underwhelming spokes.
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 17:22:45
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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On Jul 7, 10:01 am, Just A User <k...@up-yours-spammer.net > wrote:
> I know this has probably been covered her before, but here it is again.
> This morning while out on a moderate intensity ride I heard a familiar
> /ping/ noise that I recognized as a spoke breaking. This is the third
> spoke I have broken in 2 years. Not what I would call a lot, but more
> than I would like. The wheels are inexpensive Alex R500, that came on my
> 2005 Fuji Ace. The bike isn't great, but good enough for me for now. So
> the question is are /aftermarket/ spokes higher quality? Worthwhile to
> rebuild the wheels with better spokes or just replace the one that
> broke? Should I learn to replace them myself? Or just drop the wheel off
> at the LBS and have them do it? I enjoy tinkering with bikes.
That bike is specced with stainless spokes. I very much doubt you have
galvanized spokes. I can virtually guarantee you that the spokes
aren't up to tension. Replace the spoke, add a 1/4 turn all round.
Spoke wrench still pretty easy to turn? Spokes don't feel especially
tight? They go pong instead of ping? Go and add another 1/4.
Scientific, I know I know--but I doubt you have a tensionometer, and
every machine built cheapie wheel I've ever dealt with has not minded
a half turn, so I feel safe with such a modest proposal.
Now destress the wheel, though it shouldn't make a huge difference
since it's been ridden. I like putting the axle on a chunk of 2x4 and
pushing on the rim hard going all the way round to seat the spokes.
True up and ride.
Definitely build a set of wheels when you have the chance. It's super
fun and easy. "The Book" is a fun and educational read, but us plebes
get by just fine with Sheldon Brown's online guide for building a 3x
set.
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 10:32:15
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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landotter wrote:
> On Jul 7, 10:01 am, Just A User <k...@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
>> I know this has probably been covered her before, but here it is again.
>> This morning while out on a moderate intensity ride I heard a familiar
>> /ping/ noise that I recognized as a spoke breaking. This is the third
>> spoke I have broken in 2 years. Not what I would call a lot, but more
>> than I would like. The wheels are inexpensive Alex R500, that came on my
>> 2005 Fuji Ace. The bike isn't great, but good enough for me for now. So
>> the question is are /aftermarket/ spokes higher quality? Worthwhile to
>> rebuild the wheels with better spokes or just replace the one that
>> broke? Should I learn to replace them myself? Or just drop the wheel off
>> at the LBS and have them do it? I enjoy tinkering with bikes.
>
> That bike is specced with stainless spokes. I very much doubt you have
> galvanized spokes. I can virtually guarantee you that the spokes
> aren't up to tension.
there's "stainless" and there's "stainless". high quality spokes are
made from vacuum degassed steels and with great attention to surface
quality. cheapo spokes are just made from basic stainless wire with no
fatigue credentials and without due regard for surface quality. the
latter you can see with a magnifier if you care to compare.
beyond that, yes, sufficient spoke tension, and even tension
distribution are important, but they simply cannot prevent spokes of
poor quality suffering fatigue.
> Replace the spoke, add a 1/4 turn all round.
> Spoke wrench still pretty easy to turn? Spokes don't feel especially
> tight? They go pong instead of ping? Go and add another 1/4.
> Scientific, I know I know--but I doubt you have a tensionometer, and
> every machine built cheapie wheel I've ever dealt with has not minded
> a half turn, so I feel safe with such a modest proposal.
>
> Now destress the wheel, though it shouldn't make a huge difference
> since it's been ridden. I like putting the axle on a chunk of 2x4 and
> pushing on the rim hard going all the way round to seat the spokes.
> True up and ride.
>
> Definitely build a set of wheels when you have the chance. It's super
> fun and easy. "The Book" is a fun and educational read, but us plebes
> get by just fine with Sheldon Brown's online guide for building a 3x
> set.
>
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 09:38:57
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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Just A User wrote:
> I know this has probably been covered her before, but here it is again.
> This morning while out on a moderate intensity ride I heard a familiar
> /ping/ noise that I recognized as a spoke breaking. This is the third
> spoke I have broken in 2 years. Not what I would call a lot, but more
> than I would like. The wheels are inexpensive Alex R500, that came on my
> 2005 Fuji Ace. The bike isn't great, but good enough for me for now. So
> the question is are /aftermarket/ spokes higher quality?
absolutely. d.t., sapim, wheelsmith are all much superior to cheapo oem
of bikes this quality.
> Worthwhile to
> rebuild the wheels with better spokes or just replace the one that
> broke? Should I learn to replace them myself? Or just drop the wheel off
> at the LBS and have them do it? I enjoy tinkering with bikes.
my experience is that very few bike shops are actually good at wheel
building or maintenance. most are abysmal in fact. [that statement
seems to offend people that are good at building their own for some
reason - strange since the criticism doesn't extend to them.] i think
you have the following options:
1. simply replace the offending spoke. but another will go in due course.
2. respoke the wheel in its entirety. that's fine, but often,
rebuilding on a used rim can be problematic - much harder for a novice
to get true.
3. build a whole new wheel and keep that one as a spare - having
undertaken option 1 of course. new components are much easier to build
with. you can find deals on hubs, spokes and rims on the web from time
to time.
4. upgrade to a quality pre-built wheel. my experience with the low end
shimano and mavic product has been excellent.
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 09:32:01
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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On Jul 7, 9:27 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net > wrote:
> A Muzi wrote:
> > Just A User wrote:
> >> I know this has probably been covered her before, but here it is again.
> >> This morning while out on a moderate intensity ride I heard a familiar
> >> /ping/ noise that I recognized as a spoke breaking. This is the third
> >> spoke I have broken in 2 years. Not what I would call a lot, but more
> >> than I would like. The wheels are inexpensive Alex R500, that came on
> >> my 2005 Fuji Ace. The bike isn't great, but good enough for me for
> >> now. So the question is are /aftermarket/ spokes higher quality?
> >> Worthwhile to rebuild the wheels with better spokes or just replace
> >> the one that broke? Should I learn to replace them myself? Or just
> >> drop the wheel off at the LBS and have them do it? I enjoy tinkering
> >> with bikes.
>
> > Although there may be a difference in spoke material from what you have
> > (unknown) to premium stainless butted spokes, a larger difference is
> > likely to be achieved by getting uniform and proper tension on that wheel.
>
> indeed. but at this stage, respoking is probably the best bet. 3 strikes.
>
>
>
> > From here, none of us can evaluate that nor rectify it. Is there a good
> > LBS near you who can advise specifically? Low or uneven spoke tension
> > leads to spoke failure as the loads are borne by a small number of
> > spokes rather than being spread through them as a group.
>
> > If you're interested in this area generally, 'The Bicycle Wheel' is the
> > definitive work.
>
> you know, it's really not. it outlines how to calculate spoke length,
> lace a wheel, how undertake "stress relief", how to repair and how to
> tension - and in all those respects, it's just dandy. but when it comes
> to engineering theory, it sucks - spoke tension "as high as the rim can
> bear" for example.
>
> if the former attributes are all that's required, there are a number of
> alternative sources, most of which are online and free. the
> downloadable mavic pdf's and sheldon's web site for example. but if the
> reader has an interest in theory and doesn't already have a good grasp
> of sound principles, he's likely to be led seriously astray by this book
> in its current form. it contains a number of fundamental theory flaws
> and needs extensive revision accordingly.
JB trying to debunk JB?
I'm shocked. SHOCKED.
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 10:46:28
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
|
Just A User wrote:
> I know this has probably been covered her before, but here it is again.
> This morning while out on a moderate intensity ride I heard a familiar
> /ping/ noise that I recognized as a spoke breaking. This is the third
> spoke I have broken in 2 years. Not what I would call a lot, but more
> than I would like. The wheels are inexpensive Alex R500, that came on my
> 2005 Fuji Ace. The bike isn't great, but good enough for me for now. So
> the question is are /aftermarket/ spokes higher quality? Worthwhile to
> rebuild the wheels with better spokes or just replace the one that
> broke? Should I learn to replace them myself? Or just drop the wheel off
> at the LBS and have them do it? I enjoy tinkering with bikes.
Although there may be a difference in spoke material from what you have
(unknown) to premium stainless butted spokes, a larger difference is
likely to be achieved by getting uniform and proper tension on that wheel.
From here, none of us can evaluate that nor rectify it. Is there a good
LBS near you who can advise specifically? Low or uneven spoke tension
leads to spoke failure as the loads are borne by a small number of
spokes rather than being spread through them as a group.
If you're interested in this area generally, 'The Bicycle Wheel' is the
definitive work.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 11:30:07
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
|
Andrew Muzi of Yellow Jersey wrote:
> ...
> If you're interested in this area generally, 'The Bicycle Wheel' is the
> definitive work.
Unless one consumes Kentucky Bourbon or are from Wales, where the best
wheels are built with low-tension galvanized spokes bent so they do not
touch at the crossings.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 08 Jul 2007 04:53:24
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
|
Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
> Andrew Muzi of Yellow Jersey wrote:
>> ...
>> If you're interested in this area generally, 'The Bicycle Wheel' is
>> the definitive work.
>
> Unless one consumes Kentucky Bourbon or are from Wales, where the best
> wheels are built with low-tension galvanized spokes bent so they do not
> touch at the crossings.
>
I just received a Worksman bike a couple days ago, and noticed that the
rear spokes do not touch where they cross even though they appear to be
fairly-straight. Laced to a Shimano 3-speed hub, there is fully 1/16"
between them. This seems to be mainly due to the spokes being around .1"
thick.
~
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Date: 08 Jul 2007 17:34:04
From:
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
|
Doug Cimper writes:
>>> ... If you're interested in this area generally, 'The Bicycle
>>> Wheel' is the definitive work.
>> Unless one consumes Kentucky Bourbon or are from Wales, where the
>> best wheels are built with low-tension galvanized spokes bent so
>> they do not touch at the crossings.
> I just received a Worksman bike a couple days ago, and noticed that
> the rear spokes do not touch where they cross even though they
> appear to be fairly-straight. Laced to a Shimano 3-speed hub, there
> is fully 1/16" between them. This seems to be mainly due to the
> spokes being around .1" thick.
To make them tough, they must be interleaved when lacing the spokes.
Coming from the inside and outside of the same flange, they don't
naturally make contact. If a spoke breaks, it is free to tangle with
the bicycle, not being restrained by a neighboring spoke.
Jobst Brandt
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Date: 09 Jul 2007 17:15:56
From: Jasper Janssen
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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On 08 Jul 2007 17:34:04 GMT, jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>To make them tough, they must be interleaved when lacing the spokes.
>Coming from the inside and outside of the same flange, they don't
>naturally make contact. If a spoke breaks, it is free to tangle with
>the bicycle, not being restrained by a neighboring spoke.
So is lacing to make them tough, or to keep them from tangling when they
break (a laudable goal in itself)?
Jasper
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Date: 10 Jul 2007 02:11:39
From:
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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Jasper Janssen writes:
>> To make them tough, they must be interleaved when lacing the
>> spokes. Coming from the inside and outside of the same flange,
>> they don't naturally make contact. If a spoke breaks, it is free
>> to tangle with the bicycle, not being restrained by a neighboring
>> spoke.
> So is lacing to make them tough, or to keep them from tangling when
> they break (a laudable goal in itself)?
Sorry about that. The sentence was intended to read:
To make them touch, they must be interleaved when lacing the spokes.
Coming from the inside and outside of the same flange, they don't
naturally make contact. If a spoke breaks, it is free to tangle with
the bicycle, not being restrained by a neighboring spoke.
This was in response to why the spokes didn't touch.
Jobst Brandt
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Date: 08 Jul 2007 15:24:17
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Doug Cimper writes:
>
>>>> ... If you're interested in this area generally, 'The Bicycle
>>>> Wheel' is the definitive work.
>
>>> Unless one consumes Kentucky Bourbon or are from Wales, where the
>>> best wheels are built with low-tension galvanized spokes bent so
>>> they do not touch at the crossings.
>
>> I just received a Worksman bike a couple days ago, and noticed that
>> the rear spokes do not touch where they cross even though they
>> appear to be fairly-straight. Laced to a Shimano 3-speed hub, there
>> is fully 1/16" between them. This seems to be mainly due to the
>> spokes being around .1" thick.
>
> To make them tough, they must be interleaved when lacing the spokes.
what's the mechanism for this? how is it differentiated from tying &
soldering?
> Coming from the inside and outside of the same flange, they don't
> naturally make contact. If a spoke breaks, it is free to tangle with
> the bicycle, not being restrained by a neighboring spoke.
>
> Jobst Brandt
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Date: 08 Jul 2007 12:21:04
From: _
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 04:53:24 -0500, DougC wrote:
> Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Andrew Muzi of Yellow Jersey wrote:
>>> ...
>>> If you're interested in this area generally, 'The Bicycle Wheel' is
>>> the definitive work.
>>
>> Unless one consumes Kentucky Bourbon or are from Wales, where the best
>> wheels are built with low-tension galvanized spokes bent so they do not
>> touch at the crossings.
>>
>
> I just received a Worksman bike a couple days ago, and noticed that the
> rear spokes do not touch where they cross even though they appear to be
> fairly-straight. Laced to a Shimano 3-speed hub, there is fully 1/16"
> between them. This seems to be mainly due to the spokes being around .1"
> thick.
> ~
Surely it is due to the spokes not being interlaced during construction
rather than their thickness.
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Date: 08 Jul 2007 10:43:52
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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?somebody? wrote:
>> I just received a Worksman bike a couple days ago, and noticed that the
>> rear spokes do not touch where they cross even though they appear to be
>> fairly-straight. Laced to a Shimano 3-speed hub, there is fully 1/16"
>> between them. This seems to be mainly due to the spokes being around .1"
>> thick.
>> ~
>
> Surely it is due to the spokes not being interlaced during construction
> rather than their thickness.
This is true, they're 2-cross but not interlaced.... I hadn't looked too
closely at a regular wheel to notice.
I got the bike to put a motor on anyway, and with some motor types
abrasion at the spoke crossings is frequently a cause of spoke failure
at that point anyway.
~
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 12:32:33
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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> Andrew Muzi of Yellow Jersey wrote:
>> ...
>> If you're interested in this area generally, 'The Bicycle Wheel' is
>> the definitive work.
Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
> Unless one consumes Kentucky Bourbon or are from Wales, where the best
> wheels are built with low-tension galvanized spokes bent so they do not
> touch at the crossings.
heh heh.
Those steel rimmed Raleighs with unlaced Lemet spokes made from
galvanized leftovers at least didn't notably break spokes. In steel
flanges, no less! 32x40 with an ample tire is a format which covers many
sins. Raleigh sold several millions per year under a dozen labels for,
what, 80 years? Somebody liked them it seems.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 12:44:49
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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Andrew Muzi of Yellow Jersey wrote:
>> Andrew Muzi of Yellow Jersey wrote:
>>> ...
>>> If you're interested in this area generally, 'The Bicycle Wheel' is
>>> the definitive work.
>
> Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Unless one consumes Kentucky Bourbon or are from Wales, where the best
>> wheels are built with low-tension galvanized spokes bent so they do
>> not touch at the crossings.
>
> heh heh.
I wonder when Trevor Jeffrey will pop up again to war with Brandt?
> Those steel rimmed Raleighs with unlaced Lemet spokes made from
> galvanized leftovers at least didn't notably break spokes. In steel
> flanges, no less! 32x40 with an ample tire is a format which covers many
> sins. Raleigh sold several millions per year under a dozen labels for,
> what, 80 years? Somebody liked them it seems.
Millions of commuters looking for an inexpensive and reliable way to get
to work, most likely.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 09:27:53
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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A Muzi wrote:
> Just A User wrote:
>> I know this has probably been covered her before, but here it is again.
>> This morning while out on a moderate intensity ride I heard a familiar
>> /ping/ noise that I recognized as a spoke breaking. This is the third
>> spoke I have broken in 2 years. Not what I would call a lot, but more
>> than I would like. The wheels are inexpensive Alex R500, that came on
>> my 2005 Fuji Ace. The bike isn't great, but good enough for me for
>> now. So the question is are /aftermarket/ spokes higher quality?
>> Worthwhile to rebuild the wheels with better spokes or just replace
>> the one that broke? Should I learn to replace them myself? Or just
>> drop the wheel off at the LBS and have them do it? I enjoy tinkering
>> with bikes.
>
> Although there may be a difference in spoke material from what you have
> (unknown) to premium stainless butted spokes, a larger difference is
> likely to be achieved by getting uniform and proper tension on that wheel.
indeed. but at this stage, respoking is probably the best bet. 3 strikes.
>
> From here, none of us can evaluate that nor rectify it. Is there a good
> LBS near you who can advise specifically? Low or uneven spoke tension
> leads to spoke failure as the loads are borne by a small number of
> spokes rather than being spread through them as a group.
>
> If you're interested in this area generally, 'The Bicycle Wheel' is the
> definitive work.
you know, it's really not. it outlines how to calculate spoke length,
lace a wheel, how undertake "stress relief", how to repair and how to
tension - and in all those respects, it's just dandy. but when it comes
to engineering theory, it sucks - spoke tension "as high as the rim can
bear" for example.
if the former attributes are all that's required, there are a number of
alternative sources, most of which are online and free. the
downloadable mavic pdf's and sheldon's web site for example. but if the
reader has an interest in theory and doesn't already have a good grasp
of sound principles, he's likely to be led seriously astray by this book
in its current form. it contains a number of fundamental theory flaws
and needs extensive revision accordingly.
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 12:20:12
From: Just A User
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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A Muzi wrote:
> Just A User wrote:
>> I know this has probably been covered her before, but here it is again.
>> This morning while out on a moderate intensity ride I heard a familiar
>> /ping/ noise that I recognized as a spoke breaking. This is the third
>> spoke I have broken in 2 years. Not what I would call a lot, but more
>> than I would like. The wheels are inexpensive Alex R500, that came on
>> my 2005 Fuji Ace. The bike isn't great, but good enough for me for
>> now. So the question is are /aftermarket/ spokes higher quality?
>> Worthwhile to rebuild the wheels with better spokes or just replace
>> the one that broke? Should I learn to replace them myself? Or just
>> drop the wheel off at the LBS and have them do it? I enjoy tinkering
>> with bikes.
>
> Although there may be a difference in spoke material from what you have
> (unknown) to premium stainless butted spokes, a larger difference is
> likely to be achieved by getting uniform and proper tension on that wheel.
>
Well I am sure they are not stainless, they have uh, surface oxidation
I.E. rust forming on them, not a lot but enough to notice. They are mass
produced wheels so I am pretty sure they are not built as well as a hand
built wheel.
> From here, none of us can evaluate that nor rectify it. Is there a good
> LBS near you who can advise specifically? Low or uneven spoke tension
> leads to spoke failure as the loads are borne by a small number of
> spokes rather than being spread through them as a group.
>
Yeah there are a few shops around. Makes sense about uneven tensioning.
> If you're interested in this area generally, 'The Bicycle Wheel' is the
> definitive work.
Well it seems like I have more than a passing interest in wheels, so
thanks for the book advice.
Ken
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 15:09:55
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Spoke quality
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On Jul 7, 11:01 am, Just A User <k...@up-yours-spammer.net > wrote:
> I know this has probably been covered her before, but here it is again.
> This morning while out on a moderate intensity ride I heard a familiar
> /ping/ noise that I recognized as a spoke breaking. This is the third
> spoke I have broken in 2 years. Not what I would call a lot, but more
> than I would like. The wheels are inexpensive Alex R500, that came on my
> 2005 Fuji Ace. The bike isn't great, but good enough for me for now. So
> the question is are /aftermarket/ spokes higher quality? Worthwhile to
> rebuild the wheels with better spokes or just replace the one that
> broke? Should I learn to replace them myself? Or just drop the wheel off
> at the LBS and have them do it? I enjoy tinkering with bikes.
>
> Ken
YOU CONFESS!
gendarme, secure this man's bank account.
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