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Main
Date: 02 Oct 2007 21:12:37
From: Robert
Subject: Steel is back
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http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
--
Robert Maskill - G4PYR - Peterborough Cambridgeshire
MF Coastal Radio www.coastalradio.org.uk
Orton info community web site www.ortoninfo.co.uk
Nene Valley Railway Pictures www.nenevalley.ortoninfo.co.uk/
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Date: 06 Oct 2007 06:58:57
From:
Subject: Re: Steel is back
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On Oct 6, 7:54 am, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net > wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
> > Robert wrote:
> >> jim beam wrote:
> >>> Robert wrote:
> >>>>http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
>
> >>> troll.
>
> >> Not at all
>
> >> I came across the story and merely posted the link for those who may
> >> find it of interest.
>
> > really? well, if you read this group with any frequency, you'll realize
> > this is a contentious topic. this post is "stirring the pot". a.k.a
> > "trolling".
>
> It is an interesting article. Hardly a troll.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I agree. It's an interesting article, nothing trollish about it.
Smokey
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Date: 04 Oct 2007 21:43:57
From: Chris Nelson
Subject: Re: Steel is back
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On Oct 4, 8:15 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
<pe...@vecchios.com > wrote:
> On Oct 3, 8:59 am, Chris Nelson <smilin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 2, 4:12 pm, Robert <n...@none.none> wrote:
>
> > >http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
> > > --
> > > Robert Maskill - G4PYR - Peterborough Cambridgeshire
> > > MF Coastal Radiowww.coastalradio.org.uk
> > > Orton info community web sitewww.ortoninfo.co.uk
> > > Nene Valley Railway Pictureswww.nenevalley.ortoninfo.co.uk/
>
> > Reynolds 953 looks interesting, hopefully not all as expensive as the
> > IF 953 frame.
>
> > Chris
>
> IF is expensive anyway but a Waterford 953 frame is more than a
> R-33...
Strong makes a 953 also, they claim that the material is pricy and
requires heat treating after welding. Still $1000 less than IF. Wonder
if Waterford will trickle it down to the Gunnar line?
Chris
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Date: 04 Oct 2007 05:27:05
From: andresmuro@aol.com
Subject: Re: Steel is back
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On Oct 3, 3:12 pm, Kinky Cowboy <u...@domain.com > wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 13:17:04 -0400, Peter Cole
>
> <peter_c...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >Robert wrote:
> >>http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
>
> >Interesting. From article:
>
> >"Increasingly, the use of exotic materials means that components and
> >frames are becoming non-interchangeable.... "
>
> >Uh oh, there goes the neighborhood.
>
> I've never really understood this complaint. How many parts are
> interchangeable between an F150 and a Hilux? By the standards of any
> other consumer durable, bicycles retain an astonishing level of
> component compatibility.
>
> If you want 100% compatibility and interchangeability, you may have to
> give up some of the advanced functionality and ride a track bike; my
> 2007 Koga FPT is >90% interchangeable with my Dad's 1948 Rotrax, the
> only real difference being my modern bike has a threadless
> steerer/headset/stem. Compatibility ended when they switched to 3/32
> chain to accommodate 5 speed freewheels, and it's been downhill from
> there...
>
> Kinky Cowboy*
>
> *Batteries not included
> May contain traces of nuts
> Your milage may vary
Some of us old timers are spoiled. It was really nice when you opened
a parts cataloge and for your given bike you had a list of ten
different seatpost brands that you could use, several deraulliers that
you could use, several headsets, etc. Now, if you have a trek madone,
you cannot get parts at nashbar, or your local LBS anymore. Unless
they are a trek dealer.
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Date: 04 Oct 2007 11:33:55
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Steel is back
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andresmuro@aol.com wrote:
> On Oct 3, 3:12 pm, Kinky Cowboy <u...@domain.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 13:17:04 -0400, Peter Cole
>>
>> <peter_c...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Robert wrote:
>>>> http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
>>> Interesting. From article:
>>> "Increasingly, the use of exotic materials means that components and
>>> frames are becoming non-interchangeable.... "
>>> Uh oh, there goes the neighborhood.
>> I've never really understood this complaint. How many parts are
>> interchangeable between an F150 and a Hilux? By the standards of any
>> other consumer durable, bicycles retain an astonishing level of
>> component compatibility.
So why change?
> Some of us old timers are spoiled. It was really nice when you opened
> a parts cataloge and for your given bike you had a list of ten
> different seatpost brands that you could use, several deraulliers that
> you could use, several headsets, etc. Now, if you have a trek madone,
> you cannot get parts at nashbar, or your local LBS anymore. Unless
> they are a trek dealer.
>
Worse than that, most of this "unique" stuff will be orphaned by its
sole source -- so you won't even be able to get it at a Trek dealer.
House brand is one thing, house only is another.
I've never bought a Campy anything, but I'm so glad they're in the
business keeping some pressure on Shimano, ditto for SRAM.
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Date: 04 Oct 2007 05:19:56
From: andresmuro@aol.com
Subject: Re: Steel is back
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On Oct 3, 6:50 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
<pe...@vecchios.com > wrote:
> On Oct 2, 2:12 pm, Robert <n...@none.none> wrote:
>
> >http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
> > --
> > Robert Maskill - G4PYR - Peterborough Cambridgeshire
> > MF Coastal Radiowww.coastalradio.org.uk
> > Orton info community web sitewww.ortoninfo.co.uk
> > Nene Valley Railway Pictureswww.nenevalley.ortoninfo.co.uk/
>
> Steel is a wonderful material, superior in lots of ways to the 'other'
> 3 materials. If a potential customer will listen and actually ride a
> nice steel framed bike, many will get sold..like here. Second material
> that is nice is titanium with many of the same qualities as steel but
> somewhat more expensive for US made frames. Carbon is flooding the
> market and is 'disappearing' because of this. Not actually becoming
> scarce but not noticed like great steel and ti is now being
> noticed..hence tha article.
Al is also good in that it is really cheap. You can get a perfectly
fine, strong and light brand new racing frame for about $100. For
$1000 you can get maybe 10 frames in different colors, with different
angles, proportions, etc. You can ride one every year and then dispose
of it.
Andres
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Date: 04 Oct 2007 05:15:42
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com
Subject: Re: Steel is back
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On Oct 3, 8:59 am, Chris Nelson <smilin...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Oct 2, 4:12 pm, Robert <n...@none.none> wrote:
>
> >http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
> > --
> > Robert Maskill - G4PYR - Peterborough Cambridgeshire
> > MF Coastal Radiowww.coastalradio.org.uk
> > Orton info community web sitewww.ortoninfo.co.uk
> > Nene Valley Railway Pictureswww.nenevalley.ortoninfo.co.uk/
>
> Reynolds 953 looks interesting, hopefully not all as expensive as the
> IF 953 frame.
>
> Chris
IF is expensive anyway but a Waterford 953 frame is more than a
R-33...
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Date: 04 Oct 2007 05:15:35
From: andresmuro@aol.com
Subject: Re: Steel is back
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On Oct 3, 3:07 pm, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net > wrote:
> Jay Beattie wrote:
> > On Oct 3, 7:37 am, "Jambo" <-...@-.-> wrote:
> >> "Robert" <n...@none.none> wrote in message
>
> >>news:ueidnVvxYamzpJ7anZ2dnUVZ8sbinZ2d@bt.com...
>
> >>> jim beam wrote:
> >>>> Robert wrote:
> >>>>>http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
> >>>> troll.
> >>> Not at all
> >>> I came across the story and merely posted the link for those who may find
> >>> it of interest.
> >> Don't worry, beamboy is just pissed off because the article didn't plug CF
> >> that talks to people before they break.
>
> > Although he has a point. These threads often degenerate into L.P v.
> > C.D. discussions of the magical-ness of steel. I mean, you can say
> > "steel is real" -- but what rhymes with aluminum? "Aluminum is, uh,
> > er . . . great!" It's a losing battle. -- Jay Beattie.
>
> Steel is real, Ti is fly, Al's your pal, carbon is...?? CF is...? CFRP
> is...? Composite is....? I give up. Oh, plastic is fantastic! Everybody
> happy?
carbon is the champion? carbon fiber gets you higher? the fiber is
faster?
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Date: 04 Oct 2007 03:41:23
From: Donga
Subject: Re: Steel is back
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On Oct 4, 6:50 am, Tom Ace <tom...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Oct 3, 5:50 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" wrote:
>
> > Steel is a wonderful material, superior in lots of ways to the 'other'
> > 3 materials.
>
> I agree that steel is a good material--but for a frame, is it
> really _superior_ in _lots_ of ways?
>
> I've had steel, aluminum and titanium frames. For me personally,
> the key advantage of steel frames is that it's easy to find someone
> to repair or modify them, The advantage of titanium is that I don't
> have to take care to avoid chipping the paint. All the other supposed
> differences seem overrated to me.
>
> Tom Ace
Yep, it's really annoying when people lean their painted bikes against
my Ti frame and leave a paint residue behind. ;-)
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Date: 05 Oct 2007 08:41:09
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: Steel is back
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"Donga" <idomybestworkonabike@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1191494483.171584.128680@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>
> Yep, it's really annoying when people lean their painted bikes against
> my Ti frame and leave a paint residue behind. ;-)
>
I was thinking in a few years you could have LeRoy Neiman sign
your frame.
-tom
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Date: 04 Oct 2007 11:51:37
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Steel is back
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>> "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" wrote:
>>> Steel is a wonderful material, superior in lots of ways to the 'other'
>>> 3 materials.
> Tom Ace <tom...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I agree that steel is a good material--but for a frame, is it
>> really _superior_ in _lots_ of ways?
>> I've had steel, aluminum and titanium frames. For me personally,
>> the key advantage of steel frames is that it's easy to find someone
>> to repair or modify them, The advantage of titanium is that I don't
>> have to take care to avoid chipping the paint. All the other supposed
>> differences seem overrated to me.
Donga wrote:
> Yep, it's really annoying when people lean their painted bikes against
> my Ti frame and leave a paint residue behind. ;-)
You let people touch your bike?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 04 Oct 2007 10:27:10
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: Steel is back
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> Donga wrote:
>> Yep, it's really annoying when people lean their painted bikes against
>> my Ti frame and leave a paint residue behind. ;-)
>
It amazes me how far those carbon frame cyclist can lean the bike
over in trying to trip those pavement stoplight sensors.
I remember one carbon fanatic drilled a hole in one of his cycling shoe
to install a cyclometer pick-up magnet. I sometimes warn him not to
get to close to those manhole covers.
-tom
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Date: 04 Oct 2007 07:32:58
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Steel is back
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Peter Howard wrote:
>
> The 54cm frame weiged in at 2.4kg and the fork at another 2.4kg.
That last bit about the fork can't be right.
Chalo
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Date: 04 Oct 2007 09:48:54
From: Peter Howard
Subject: Re: Steel is back
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"Chalo" <chalo.colina@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1191483178.385854.148300@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Peter Howard wrote:
>>
>> The 54cm frame weiged in at 2.4kg and the fork at another 2.4kg.
>
> That last bit about the fork can't be right.
>
> Chalo
You're right, it isn't. What I meant to type was another 1.1kg for the fork
which is what I have written down in my bike notebook. Defective
brain/typing finger interface :-)
Peter.
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 13:50:45
From: Tom Ace
Subject: Re: Steel is back
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On Oct 3, 5:50 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" wrote:
> Steel is a wonderful material, superior in lots of ways to the 'other'
> 3 materials.
I agree that steel is a good material--but for a frame, is it
really _superior_ in _lots_ of ways?
I've had steel, aluminum and titanium frames. For me personally,
the key advantage of steel frames is that it's easy to find someone
to repair or modify them, The advantage of titanium is that I don't
have to take care to avoid chipping the paint. All the other supposed
differences seem overrated to me.
Tom Ace
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 13:20:47
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: Steel is back
|
On Oct 3, 7:37 am, "Jambo" <-...@-.- > wrote:
> "Robert" <n...@none.none> wrote in message
>
> news:ueidnVvxYamzpJ7anZ2dnUVZ8sbinZ2d@bt.com...
>
> > jim beam wrote:
> >> Robert wrote:
> >>>http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
>
> >> troll.
>
> > Not at all
>
> > I came across the story and merely posted the link for those who may find
> > it of interest.
>
> Don't worry, beamboy is just pissed off because the article didn't plug CF
> that talks to people before they break.
Although he has a point. These threads often degenerate into L.P v.
C.D. discussions of the magical-ness of steel. I mean, you can say
"steel is real" -- but what rhymes with aluminum? "Aluminum is, uh,
er . . . great!" It's a losing battle. -- Jay Beattie.
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 19:23:57
From: Jambo
Subject: Re: Steel is back
|
"Jay Beattie" <jbeattie@lindsayhart.com > wrote in message
news:1191442847.480694.327550@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 3, 7:37 am, "Jambo" <-...@-.-> wrote:
>> "Robert" <n...@none.none> wrote in message
>>
>> news:ueidnVvxYamzpJ7anZ2dnUVZ8sbinZ2d@bt.com...
>>
>> > jim beam wrote:
>> >> Robert wrote:
>> >>>http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
>>
>> >> troll.
>>
>> > Not at all
>>
>> > I came across the story and merely posted the link for those who may
>> > find
>> > it of interest.
>>
>> Don't worry, beamboy is just pissed off because the article didn't plug
>> CF
>> that talks to people before they break.
>
> Although he has a point. These threads often degenerate into L.P v.
> C.D. discussions of the magical-ness of steel.
And just like the "discussions" on the magical properties of CF. So what is
the point you see?
> I mean, you can say
> "steel is real" -- but what rhymes with aluminum? "Aluminum is, uh,
> er . . . great!" It's a losing battle. -- Jay Beattie.
The point is that you can say troll to every article referring to metal or
composite materials for bikes; however, beamboy thinks the steel article is
a troll because it's not about CF. Which, by the way, he loves but knows
nothing about.
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 17:07:02
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Steel is back
|
Jay Beattie wrote:
> On Oct 3, 7:37 am, "Jambo" <-...@-.-> wrote:
>> "Robert" <n...@none.none> wrote in message
>>
>> news:ueidnVvxYamzpJ7anZ2dnUVZ8sbinZ2d@bt.com...
>>
>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>> http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
>>>> troll.
>>> Not at all
>>> I came across the story and merely posted the link for those who may find
>>> it of interest.
>> Don't worry, beamboy is just pissed off because the article didn't plug CF
>> that talks to people before they break.
>
> Although he has a point. These threads often degenerate into L.P v.
> C.D. discussions of the magical-ness of steel. I mean, you can say
> "steel is real" -- but what rhymes with aluminum? "Aluminum is, uh,
> er . . . great!" It's a losing battle. -- Jay Beattie.
>
Steel is real, Ti is fly, Al's your pal, carbon is...?? CF is...? CFRP
is...? Composite is....? I give up. Oh, plastic is fantastic! Everybody
happy?
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 13:17:04
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Steel is back
|
Robert wrote:
> http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
Interesting. From article:
"Increasingly, the use of exotic materials means that components and
frames are becoming non-interchangeable.
New for 2008, Specialized released its Future Shock, a carbon-fiber
suspension fork that's designed to be used only with its top-of-the-line
carbon-fiber S-Works racing mountain bike frame. This means that no
other fork will work with these frames, and vice versa. The manufacturer
also uses a similarly integrated, rigid fork in its new S-Works
triathlon and time-trial bike. Specialized claims more-responsive
steering and weight loss from this system. "
Uh oh, there goes the neighborhood.
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 22:12:00
From: Kinky Cowboy
Subject: Re: Steel is back
|
On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 13:17:04 -0400, Peter Cole
<peter_cole@comcast.net > wrote:
>Robert wrote:
>> http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
>
>Interesting. From article:
>
>"Increasingly, the use of exotic materials means that components and
>frames are becoming non-interchangeable.... "
>
>
>Uh oh, there goes the neighborhood.
I've never really understood this complaint. How many parts are
interchangeable between an F150 and a Hilux? By the standards of any
other consumer durable, bicycles retain an astonishing level of
component compatibility.
If you want 100% compatibility and interchangeability, you may have to
give up some of the advanced functionality and ride a track bike; my
2007 Koga FPT is >90% interchangeable with my Dad's 1948 Rotrax, the
only real difference being my modern bike has a threadless
steerer/headset/stem. Compatibility ended when they switched to 3/32
chain to accommodate 5 speed freewheels, and it's been downhill from
there...
Kinky Cowboy*
*Batteries not included
May contain traces of nuts
Your milage may vary
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 08:21:58
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Steel is back
|
On Oct 3, 2:04 am, "Peter Howard" <bbrover...@bbbigpond.net.au > wrote:
> "Hank Wirtz" <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote in message
>
> news:1191358990.637662.75270@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Oct 2, 1:12 pm, Robert <n...@none.none> wrote:
> >>http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
> >> --
> >> Robert Maskill - G4PYR - Peterborough Cambridgeshire
> >> MF Coastal Radiowww.coastalradio.org.uk
> >> Orton info community web sitewww.ortoninfo.co.uk
> >> Nene Valley Railway Pictureswww.nenevalley.ortoninfo.co.uk/
>
> > Steel left?
>
> > (My last two new bikes are Steel.)
>
> I just finished building my tourer from a Surly LHT frame kit. That's with
> double butted CroMo tubing and a CroMo fork. The 54cm frame weiged in at
> 2.4kg and the fork at another 2.4kg. I added a Rohloff 14speed rear hub,
> Schmidt dyno front hub, 26" rims, Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres weighty
> Brooks saddle and a cheapo alloy rack.
> The complete bike weighs 15.5kg.
>
> My MTB with Giant XTC alloy hardtail frame, Shimano 27sp drivetrain and a
> rack also weighs 15.5kg The MTB does have a 100mm travel suspension fork but
> the Surly has a somewhat heavier drivetrain, dyno hub, tyres that aren't the
> lightest and a 900g saddle. There are weight tradeoffs with each bike but
> the steel frame is not a major factor with the tourer.
>
> Whatever, I was pleasantly surprised by the finished weight of the Surly.
> It's handling and ride as a grocery getter are a dream. The unsuspended
> steel fork and plump tyres soak up minor bumps and its directional stability
> is quite unlike the MTB. I guess that MTB geometry is meant for twisty
> singletrack and any utility as a suburban runabout is a bonus.
>
> In case you hadn't guessed, I really like my steel Surly so far.
>
> Peter
> Australia
Excellent choice! I've had my Surly LHT for about a year. I rode it
halfway across Washington state this summer, and the bike was not my
limiting factor. It's slow, but very, very comfy. During the summer,
I've mostly been commuting on my racing bike, a Guerciotti made of
lugged Columbus SL, but I'm probably going to go back to riding the
Surly 80% of the time now that the weather's gone lousy.
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Date: 04 Oct 2007 10:51:03
From: Peter Howard
Subject: Re: Steel is back
|
"Hank Wirtz" <hank@wirtznet.net > wrote in message
news:1191424918.591961.167220@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 3, 2:04 am, "Peter Howard" <bbrover...@bbbigpond.net.au> wrote:
>> "Hank Wirtz" <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1191358990.637662.75270@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On Oct 2, 1:12 pm, Robert <n...@none.none> wrote:
>> >>http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
>> >> --
>> >> Robert Maskill - G4PYR - Peterborough Cambridgeshire
>> >> MF Coastal Radiowww.coastalradio.org.uk
>> >> Orton info community web sitewww.ortoninfo.co.uk
>> >> Nene Valley Railway Pictureswww.nenevalley.ortoninfo.co.uk/
>>
>> > Steel left?
>>
>> > (My last two new bikes are Steel.)
>>
>> I just finished building my tourer from a Surly LHT frame kit. That's
>> with
>> double butted CroMo tubing and a CroMo fork. The 54cm frame weiged in at
>> 2.4kg and the fork at another 2.4kg. I added a Rohloff 14speed rear hub,
>> Schmidt dyno front hub, 26" rims, Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres weighty
>> Brooks saddle and a cheapo alloy rack.
>> The complete bike weighs 15.5kg.
>>
>> My MTB with Giant XTC alloy hardtail frame, Shimano 27sp drivetrain and a
>> rack also weighs 15.5kg The MTB does have a 100mm travel suspension fork
>> but
>> the Surly has a somewhat heavier drivetrain, dyno hub, tyres that aren't
>> the
>> lightest and a 900g saddle. There are weight tradeoffs with each bike but
>> the steel frame is not a major factor with the tourer.
>>
>> Whatever, I was pleasantly surprised by the finished weight of the Surly.
>> It's handling and ride as a grocery getter are a dream. The unsuspended
>> steel fork and plump tyres soak up minor bumps and its directional
>> stability
>> is quite unlike the MTB. I guess that MTB geometry is meant for twisty
>> singletrack and any utility as a suburban runabout is a bonus.
>>
>> In case you hadn't guessed, I really like my steel Surly so far.
>>
>> Peter
>> Australia
>
> Excellent choice! I've had my Surly LHT for about a year. I rode it
> halfway across Washington state this summer, and the bike was not my
> limiting factor. It's slow, but very, very comfy. During the summer,
> I've mostly been commuting on my racing bike, a Guerciotti made of
> lugged Columbus SL, but I'm probably going to go back to riding the
> Surly 80% of the time now that the weather's gone lousy.
>
What a coincidence. I pick you to reply to with my observations about good
steel and find that you are also a LHT owner. They sure are popular with
both complete bikes and framesets being readily available from LBS's as far
away as Australia.
I do like the classic look of lugged frames and the repairability is a plus
also. On the other hand, the apparently flawless TIG welding on the Surly
frames has a certain beauty too. Seems to be quite a few US builders of nice
lugged tourers. Rivendell in CA comes to mind. The only problem is importing
one to Australia yourself. From my reading of other bike newsgroups and
forums, there's a LHT drought in the USA at the moment. Maybe they shipped
the entire latest production run over here.
This evening a local 13 year old suffering from end of school break boredom
volunteered to accompany me on the supermarket run. While we were pootling
along the bike lane a triathlon type on a DBR breezed past. Not wanting to
look like a wuss in front of the kid, I gave chase and was doing good until
DBR man noticed and poured on the coal. I'm not a racer and the LHT
certainly isn't but I can just about beat a fit little teenager on an
up-market XC MTB. An athlete on a road racer is a different matter.
Peter
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 07:59:52
From: Chris Nelson
Subject: Re: Steel is back
|
On Oct 2, 4:12 pm, Robert <n...@none.none > wrote:
> http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
> --
> Robert Maskill - G4PYR - Peterborough Cambridgeshire
> MF Coastal Radiowww.coastalradio.org.uk
> Orton info community web sitewww.ortoninfo.co.uk
> Nene Valley Railway Pictureswww.nenevalley.ortoninfo.co.uk/
Reynolds 953 looks interesting, hopefully not all as expensive as the
IF 953 frame.
Chris
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 05:50:30
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com
Subject: Re: Steel is back
|
On Oct 2, 2:12 pm, Robert <n...@none.none > wrote:
> http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
> --
> Robert Maskill - G4PYR - Peterborough Cambridgeshire
> MF Coastal Radiowww.coastalradio.org.uk
> Orton info community web sitewww.ortoninfo.co.uk
> Nene Valley Railway Pictureswww.nenevalley.ortoninfo.co.uk/
Steel is a wonderful material, superior in lots of ways to the 'other'
3 materials. If a potential customer will listen and actually ride a
nice steel framed bike, many will get sold..like here. Second material
that is nice is titanium with many of the same qualities as steel but
somewhat more expensive for US made frames. Carbon is flooding the
market and is 'disappearing' because of this. Not actually becoming
scarce but not noticed like great steel and ti is now being
noticed..hence tha article.
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Date: 02 Oct 2007 20:52:10
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Steel is back
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Robert wrote:
> http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
troll.
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 07:39:29
From: Robert
Subject: Re: Steel is back
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jim beam wrote:
> Robert wrote:
>> http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
>
> troll.
Not at all
I came across the story and merely posted the link for those who may
find it of interest.
--
Robert Maskill - G4PYR - Peterborough Cambridgeshire
MF Coastal Radio www.coastalradio.org.uk
Orton info community web site www.ortoninfo.co.uk
Nene Valley Railway Pictures www.nenevalley.ortoninfo.co.uk/
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Date: 05 Oct 2007 18:01:21
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Steel is back
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Robert wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> Robert wrote:
>>> http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
>>
>> troll.
>
> Not at all
>
> I came across the story and merely posted the link for those who may
> find it of interest.
>
really? well, if you read this group with any frequency, you'll realize
this is a contentious topic. this post is "stirring the pot". a.k.a
"trolling".
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Date: 06 Oct 2007 08:54:15
From: Peter Cole
Subject: Re: Steel is back
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jim beam wrote:
> Robert wrote:
>> jim beam wrote:
>>> Robert wrote:
>>>> http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
>>>
>>> troll.
>>
>> Not at all
>>
>> I came across the story and merely posted the link for those who may
>> find it of interest.
>>
> really? well, if you read this group with any frequency, you'll realize
> this is a contentious topic. this post is "stirring the pot". a.k.a
> "trolling".
It is an interesting article. Hardly a troll.
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Date: 06 Oct 2007 07:00:17
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Steel is back
|
Peter Cole wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> Robert wrote:
>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>> http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
>>>>
>>>> troll.
>>>
>>> Not at all
>>>
>>> I came across the story and merely posted the link for those who may
>>> find it of interest.
>>>
>> really? well, if you read this group with any frequency, you'll
>> realize this is a contentious topic. this post is "stirring the
>> pot". a.k.a "trolling".
>
> It is an interesting article. Hardly a troll.
"bike culture" sure is tech! but hey, anything that supports
preconception, however tenuously, right?
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Date: 07 Oct 2007 05:16:12
From: still me
Subject: Re: Steel is back
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On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 07:00:17 -0700, jim beam
<spamvortex@bad.example.net > wrote:
>
>"bike culture" sure is tech! but hey, anything that supports
>preconception, however tenuously, right?
It's a discussion of frame materials - that's tech. It's a recent
publication. That means it's neither a troll or off-topic. It's a
pertinent current discussion for the group.
If you don't want to read it, then don't. I'm sure there's other
threads here you can netcop and thereby make your day complete.
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Date: 07 Oct 2007 08:39:19
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Steel is back
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still me wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 07:00:17 -0700, jim beam
> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>
>> "bike culture" sure is tech! but hey, anything that supports
>> preconception, however tenuously, right?
>
> It's a discussion of frame materials - that's tech.
it's not discussed in /any/ technical way, simply in a marketing way.
all the name dropping, all the brand names, all the positioning for
product launch or endorsement, complete with scarcity scare story - just
guaranteed to stir the pot. but not a single number. not even a sales
figure. and "written" by someone whose journalistic niche seems to be
recirculating press releases.
bottom line: the story is bunk. posting it is trolling into the still
airborne odium that was [still is] bouncing off the fan about cfrp.
> It's a recent
> publication. That means it's neither a troll or off-topic. It's a
> pertinent current discussion for the group.
>
> If you don't want to read it, then don't. I'm sure there's other
> threads here you can netcop and thereby make your day complete.
>
>
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Date: 07 Oct 2007 19:35:01
From: still me
Subject: Re: Steel is back
|
On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 08:39:19 -0700, jim beam
<spamvortex@bad.example.net > wrote:
>it's not discussed in /any/ technical way, simply in a marketing way.
A discussion of frame materials is appropriate here. End of story. If
you don't like it, read another thread.
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Date: 07 Oct 2007 21:17:11
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Steel is back
|
still me wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 08:39:19 -0700, jim beam
> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>
>> it's not discussed in /any/ technical way, simply in a marketing way.
>
>
> A discussion of frame materials is appropriate here. End of story. If
> you don't like it, read another thread.
how is it discussing the material? it discusses fashion and marketing -
damn-all about tube specs, application, manufacturing, comparison,
analysis, etc.
but if this illustrates how the man in the street "feels" he knows
something while knowing nothing, this is the power of marketing writ
large - and impressive it is too.
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 19:51:54
From: still me
Subject: Re: Steel is back
|
On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 07:39:29 +0100, Robert <none@none.none > wrote:
>jim beam wrote:
>> Robert wrote:
>>> http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
>>
>> troll.
>
>Not at all
>
>I came across the story and merely posted the link for those who may
>find it of interest.
He couldn't really tell you you were OT, so he labeled you a troll
instead. (He's a cranky fellow lately).
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 10:37:07
From: Jambo
Subject: Re: Steel is back
|
"Robert" <none@none.none > wrote in message
news:ueidnVvxYamzpJ7anZ2dnUVZ8sbinZ2d@bt.com...
> jim beam wrote:
>> Robert wrote:
>>> http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
>>
>> troll.
>
> Not at all
>
> I came across the story and merely posted the link for those who may find
> it of interest.
Don't worry, beamboy is just pissed off because the article didn't plug CF
that talks to people before they break.
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Date: 02 Oct 2007 14:03:10
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Steel is back
|
On Oct 2, 1:12 pm, Robert <n...@none.none > wrote:
> http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
> --
> Robert Maskill - G4PYR - Peterborough Cambridgeshire
> MF Coastal Radiowww.coastalradio.org.uk
> Orton info community web sitewww.ortoninfo.co.uk
> Nene Valley Railway Pictureswww.nenevalley.ortoninfo.co.uk/
Steel left?
(My last two new bikes are Steel.)
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Date: 03 Oct 2007 09:04:38
From: Peter Howard
Subject: Re: Steel is back
|
"Hank Wirtz" <hank@wirtznet.net > wrote in message
news:1191358990.637662.75270@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 2, 1:12 pm, Robert <n...@none.none> wrote:
>> http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2007/10/interbike_steel
>> --
>> Robert Maskill - G4PYR - Peterborough Cambridgeshire
>> MF Coastal Radiowww.coastalradio.org.uk
>> Orton info community web sitewww.ortoninfo.co.uk
>> Nene Valley Railway Pictureswww.nenevalley.ortoninfo.co.uk/
>
> Steel left?
>
> (My last two new bikes are Steel.)
>
>
I just finished building my tourer from a Surly LHT frame kit. That's with
double butted CroMo tubing and a CroMo fork. The 54cm frame weiged in at
2.4kg and the fork at another 2.4kg. I added a Rohloff 14speed rear hub,
Schmidt dyno front hub, 26" rims, Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres weighty
Brooks saddle and a cheapo alloy rack.
The complete bike weighs 15.5kg.
My MTB with Giant XTC alloy hardtail frame, Shimano 27sp drivetrain and a
rack also weighs 15.5kg The MTB does have a 100mm travel suspension fork but
the Surly has a somewhat heavier drivetrain, dyno hub, tyres that aren't the
lightest and a 900g saddle. There are weight tradeoffs with each bike but
the steel frame is not a major factor with the tourer.
Whatever, I was pleasantly surprised by the finished weight of the Surly.
It's handling and ride as a grocery getter are a dream. The unsuspended
steel fork and plump tyres soak up minor bumps and its directional stability
is quite unlike the MTB. I guess that MTB geometry is meant for twisty
singletrack and any utility as a suburban runabout is a bonus.
In case you hadn't guessed, I really like my steel Surly so far.
Peter
Australia
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Date: 04 Oct 2007 11:12:45
From: Donald Gillies
Subject: Re: Steel is back
|
"Peter Howard" <bbrover109@bbbigpond.net.au > writes:
>I just finished building my tourer from a Surly LHT frame kit. That's with
>double butted CroMo tubing and a CroMo fork. The 54cm frame weiged in at
>2.4kg and the fork at another 2.4kg.
"Truck" is definitely an apt name for that bike, even if the fork
actually weighs 1.1 kg, not 2.4 kg.
Most of my steel bikes (in 62.5cm, not 54cm), weigh 2.2 kg with a .8 kg
fork, and all but 2 of them have eyelets for touring.
So, 10% less weight for a 15% larger frame.
Trucker is an apt name.
- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA
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