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Main
Date: 08 Oct 2007 21:12:52
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
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Well, perhaps not. But a friend gave me a copy of "The Complete Book of
Bicycling" by Eugene A. Sloane. The copyright date is 1970, and I think
this book functioned as a handbook for riding for bike boomers in much
the same way as James Fixx's jogging book did for joggers.
However, I'm not sure he did less harm than good. Excepts from the often
informative book:
Chapter 2 covers "Practical Tips for Bicycling Safely." Mr. Sloane
avoids some of the worst possible failings, but on p. 21, offers some
mysterious advice:
"Never ride on a city street where parking is not allowed!"
This seems to reflect urban design of the time (such roads would be fast
commuter chutes) rather than complete wrong-headedness.
but the next point is to ride where parking is allowed because, "traffic
is supposed to allow from thirty to thirty-six inches...to allow for the
doors of parked cars to open easily...thirty inches will be all you
need."
Followed immediately by "Watch out for car doors opening ahead of you
when riding on streets with parked cars!"
Apparently, Sloane wants us to ride in the door zone. The chapter
continues on with some fairly random-sounding libels against the driving
abilities of suburban housewives and older drivers, later followed by a
tale of Sloane's only traffic accident, in which he ran into the back of
a parked car because he was looking down at the connection of his
electric socks.
I am not making that up.
I don't want to trash the entire book. He's got some good advice about
looking out for storm grates, which especially at the time, often came
with straight bars, great for wheel-bending.
Chapter 5, on how to ride a bicycle, starts with nearly two pages,
including a diagram, on ankling. Oh dear.
The chapter on bike racing has a brief discussion of drugs in cycling,
which suggests some curious theories about drug-tolerance, and alludes
to the death of Tom Simpson without naming him.
Surprisingly, the history section seems pretty good, describing both the
political and performance landmarks of the early sport. One thing he
points out that I hadn't thought of was that when Mile-a-Minute Murphy
set his rail-paced record, no car was able to beat his speed for a
decade.
In the section on bike components, Sloane falls prey to the then-current
sentiment that centre-pull brakes were superior to side-pull.
There's a fair number of illustrations and photographs throughout. It
might be a worthwhile addition to a bike book collection for those
pictures alone, which range from contemporary to quite historic indeed.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 11 Oct 2007 14:07:19
From:
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
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" >In the section on bike components, Sloane falls prey to the then-
current
>sentiment that centre-pull brakes were superior to side-pull.
Are you saying they're not ??"
You have to wonder though don't you. How does one, in sloans
position, get onto a bunch of bikes, pull on all the brakes and come
away with the wrong impression? Braking distance and other factors,
are pretty feedback obvious. So who is really right.
I think the Campi sidepulls my pal had on his bike were pretty good.
On my cheaper bike with 3 butted tubes, Simplex gears, coterpin
cranks, etc... The Mafac center pulls were a good choice. Hard to
believe a time when steel stampings, heck steel in general was a
serious choice for many bike parts. Now some 13 buck brakes out of
the Nashbar catalog will get you what the Campi did back then for the
equivalent in current terms of about $500-1000 a pair (around 100
bucks in Canada as I recall).
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Date: 09 Oct 2007 17:37:45
From: Donald Gillies
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
|
Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca > writes:
>In the section on bike components, Sloane falls prey to the then-current
>sentiment that centre-pull brakes were superior to side-pull.
Are you saying they're not ??
- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA, USA
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Date: 09 Oct 2007 21:55:41
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
|
> Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca> writes:
>> In the section on bike components, Sloane falls prey to the then-current
>> sentiment that centre-pull brakes were superior to side-pull.
Donald Gillies wrote:
> Are you saying they're not ??
There's no net difference and either may be done well or poorly.
Whaddya like, a LAM steel sidepull or a Weinmann Vainquer centerpull?
What if the choice is between a classic Record sidepull and a Ballila
stamped centerpull?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 10 Oct 2007 01:53:59
From:
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
|
Donald Gillies writes:
>> In the section on bike components, Sloane falls prey to the
>> then-current sentiment that centre-pull brakes were superior to
>> side-pull.
> Are you saying they're not ??
That's why the survived for a micro-second on the market, leaving only
those who were fooled by the appearance of having twice the brake
force. You might imagine how the rec.bicycle people of the day
chastised me for pointing out that their mechanical advantage was the
same (1:1) as all calipers brakes of the time. To make up for that,
they had horrible cosine error without the benefit of great mud
clearance as cantilever brakes offer, sweeping into the tire as their
pads wore.
Ah yes, the Mafac Racer. What a name! One should have wondered why
they had spherical pad adjustment. They needed it.
Jobst Brandt
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Date: 09 Oct 2007 19:49:09
From: bfd
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
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<jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org > wrote in message
news:470c30b7$0$14112$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Donald Gillies writes:
>
>>> In the section on bike components, Sloane falls prey to the
>>> then-current sentiment that centre-pull brakes were superior to
>>> side-pull.
>
>> Are you saying they're not ??
>
> That's why the survived for a micro-second on the market, leaving only
> those who were fooled by the appearance of having twice the brake
> force. You might imagine how the rec.bicycle people of the day
> chastised me for pointing out that their mechanical advantage was the
> same (1:1) as all calipers brakes of the time. To make up for that,
> they had horrible cosine error without the benefit of great mud
> clearance as cantilever brakes offer, sweeping into the tire as their
> pads wore.
>
> Ah yes, the Mafac Racer. What a name! One should have wondered why
> they had spherical pad adjustment. They needed it.
>
Yow, if you believe all of that, then you better be ready, CENTERPULL BRAKES
ARE BACK!
Rivendell carries two sets: a Dia-Compe set made in Japan for *only*
$45/set:
http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/brakes#product=15-111
and for those of you where money is no object, they sell the Pauls version
for $245/set:
http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/brakes#product=15-135
Don't forget to "Read about it."
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Date: 13 Oct 2007 18:46:46
From: Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
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bfd who? wrote:
> ...
> Yow, if you believe all of that, then you better be ready, CENTERPULL BRAKES
> ARE BACK!
>
> Rivendell carries two sets: a Dia-Compe set made in Japan for *only*
> $45/set:
> http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/brakes#product=15-111
>
> and for those of you where money is no object, they sell the Pauls version
> for $245/set:
> http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/brakes#product=15-135
>
> Don't forget to "Read about it."
Screw that. Riverdwell's [1] site crashes Mozilla browsers. They can
keep their ISO 584-mm wheels for that (and several other reasons).
[1] A gdanielsism.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!
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Date: 13 Oct 2007 21:35:45
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
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In article <ferld9$bls$1@registered.motzarella.org >,
Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote:
> bfd who? wrote:
> > ... Yow, if you believe all of that, then you better be ready,
> > CENTERPULL BRAKES ARE BACK!
> >
> > Rivendell carries two sets: a Dia-Compe set made in Japan for
> > *only* $45/set:
> > http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/brakes#product=15-111
> >
> > and for those of you where money is no object, they sell the Pauls
> > version for $245/set:
> > http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/brakes#product=15-135
> >
> > Don't forget to "Read about it."
>
> Screw that. Riverdwell's [1] site crashes Mozilla browsers. They can
> keep their ISO 584-mm wheels for that (and several other reasons).
>
> [1] A gdanielsism.
Huh. It doesn't crash Firefox or Camino for me, both of which are
Mozilla products. Doesn't crash Safari either.
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Date: 11 Oct 2007 15:56:02
From: still me
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
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On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 19:49:09 -0700, "bfd" <bfd853@comcast.net > wrote:
>Rivendell carries two sets: a Dia-Compe set made in Japan for *only*
>$45/set:
>http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/brakes#product=15-111
Yeah, but those are far superior to the Dia-Compe vintage brakes -
they have allen bolt heads and aero-shoes!
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Date: 09 Oct 2007 17:29:39
From: Donald Gillies
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
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When I got sloan's book all I noticed were the close-ups of components
(Campagnolo and Dura Ace! Not available locally!) and all the pretty
girls in short-shorts and tight t-shirts, posing for bike-related porn
X X X X pictures !!
He sure knew his bookstore marketing !!
- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA
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Date: 09 Oct 2007 11:43:08
From:
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
|
On Oct 8, 11:17 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
>
>
> Okay, so since Mr. Sloane's history turns out to be unreliable, I take
> back all the nice things I said about him.
As I remember, at least one edition of his book explained that "700c"
wheels are 700 centimeters in diameter. That didn't say much for his
technical knowledge.
I also figured that the contract for his book's second edition must
have paid him by the word. It's the only reason I can think of for
cramming so much blather between two covers.
- Frank Krygowski
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Date: 09 Oct 2007 17:32:08
From: Donald Gillies
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
|
frkrygow@gmail.com writes:
>As I remember, at least one edition of his book explained that "700c"
>wheels are 700 centimeters in diameter. That didn't say much for his
>technical knowledge.
Gimme a break. Sloan was told that he was not allowed to put math in
his textbook on bicycling. In the 1960's, the metric system had just
been invented, anyway, hadn't it ??? *grin*.
- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA
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Date: 09 Oct 2007 19:40:28
From: Zog The Undeniable
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
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Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> Well, perhaps not. But a friend gave me a copy of "The Complete Book of
> Bicycling" by Eugene A. Sloane. The copyright date is 1970, and I think
> this book functioned as a handbook for riding for bike boomers in much
> the same way as James Fixx's jogging book did for joggers.
>
> However, I'm not sure he did less harm than good. Excepts from the often
> informative book:
>
> Chapter 2 covers "Practical Tips for Bicycling Safely." Mr. Sloane
> avoids some of the worst possible failings, but on p. 21, offers some
> mysterious advice:
>
> "Never ride on a city street where parking is not allowed!"
>
> This seems to reflect urban design of the time (such roads would be fast
> commuter chutes) rather than complete wrong-headedness.
>
> but the next point is to ride where parking is allowed because, "traffic
> is supposed to allow from thirty to thirty-six inches...to allow for the
> doors of parked cars to open easily...thirty inches will be all you
> need."
>
> Followed immediately by "Watch out for car doors opening ahead of you
> when riding on streets with parked cars!"
>
> Apparently, Sloane wants us to ride in the door zone. The chapter
> continues on with some fairly random-sounding libels against the driving
> abilities of suburban housewives and older drivers, later followed by a
> tale of Sloane's only traffic accident, in which he ran into the back of
> a parked car because he was looking down at the connection of his
> electric socks.
>
> I am not making that up.
>
> I don't want to trash the entire book. He's got some good advice about
> looking out for storm grates, which especially at the time, often came
> with straight bars, great for wheel-bending.
>
> Chapter 5, on how to ride a bicycle, starts with nearly two pages,
> including a diagram, on ankling. Oh dear.
>
> The chapter on bike racing has a brief discussion of drugs in cycling,
> which suggests some curious theories about drug-tolerance, and alludes
> to the death of Tom Simpson without naming him.
>
> Surprisingly, the history section seems pretty good, describing both the
> political and performance landmarks of the early sport. One thing he
> points out that I hadn't thought of was that when Mile-a-Minute Murphy
> set his rail-paced record, no car was able to beat his speed for a
> decade.
>
> In the section on bike components, Sloane falls prey to the then-current
> sentiment that centre-pull brakes were superior to side-pull.
>
> There's a fair number of illustrations and photographs throughout. It
> might be a worthwhile addition to a bike book collection for those
> pictures alone, which range from contemporary to quite historic indeed.
>
I have Sloane's "new" bicycle maintenance book, and actually built my
first wheelset (36h, 4-cross; a terrible pattern because of the
rim/spoke angle) following the frankly horrid instructions; inserting
all 36 spokes into the hub before starting makes for a right mess,
although I understand shop mechanics do it this way when they've built
hundreds of wheels. Nevertheless, the wheels didn't need touching for
the 10 years or so I owned the bike after that, although the rear one
benefited from being dishless (5 speed freewheel on a respaced Sachs
Rival 6 speed hub) and was therefore almost as foolproof as a front one.
There is some weird stuff in there, such as loose headsets blamed for
shimmy (not true), 4-cross wheels giving a softer ride (unmeasurable)
and the then-fashionable exhortations to remove brake extension levers,
lest they slaughter your children and run off with your wife.
I suppose I owe Eugene one for those wheels, as they got me into
wheelbuilding and didn't actually let me down.
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Date: 08 Oct 2007 23:39:59
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
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I enjoy a few minutes of French Ankle for loosening the lower soleus
and burning off the morning's Dynapo.
But I'm not sure if a Complete Book of anything covers it.
Have you tried searching the COMPLETE listing in WORLD CATALOGUE ??
or the bicycling listings: A GAS
one real good use of these dated "manuals" are photocopies of the
occasional factory components blowups and drawings.
You have off course read: The Complete Book of Motorcycles: 1900-1925?
not the correct title but.... worth the effort.
bang bang bang bang.......clatter clatter......
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Date: 08 Oct 2007 16:01:25
From:
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
|
On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:12:52 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca >
wrote:
[snip]
>Surprisingly, the history section seems pretty good, describing both the
>political and performance landmarks of the early sport. One thing he
>points out that I hadn't thought of was that when Mile-a-Minute Murphy
>set his rail-paced record, no car was able to beat his speed for a
>decade.
[snip]
Dear Ryan,
Am I to understand that, to save his contemptible life, Gene Sloane
dared to practise upon our credulous simplicity?
[Ryan nods as he weeps.]
Our revenge shall be swift and terrible!
(Sorry, couldn't resist it, not with "swift" in the Pirate King's
dialogue.)
Here's a fun table of swiftness records, with links to many photos:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_speed_record#1898_to_1947
This handsome electric car did over 65 mph by May 1st 1899:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Jamais_Contente
As the text points out, the wicked streamlining was mostly useless
because of the wheels and the driver sticking out like sore thumbs,
but I'd love to cruise down Main Street in that thing!
Anyway, two months later, Mile-a-minute Murphy dawdled along for a
mile at an average speed of only 62 mph on June 30, 1899:
http://arrts-arrchives.com/mmm.html
http://www.fredrompelberg.com/en/html/algemeen/fredrompelberg/record.asp#a02P1Q1LKT1UV6572MX66
Lots of cars beat 60 mph shortly after 1899. Henry Ford did a mile at
over 91 mph on a frozen lake in 1904.
By 1909, ten years after Murphy, cars and motorcycles were doing well
over 120 mph.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
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Date: 08 Oct 2007 21:59:47
From:
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
|
In article <5q8lg3ph215kvi24q51v76to3ntrqjkjfb@4ax.com >,
carlfogel@comcast.net says...
> This handsome electric car did over 65 mph by May 1st 1899:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Jamais_Contente
>
> As the text points out, the wicked streamlining was mostly useless
> because of the wheels and the driver sticking out like sore thumbs,
> but I'd love to cruise down Main Street in that thing!
I'd love to see a picture of the driver actually driving the car,
instead of sitting up on the edge of the cockpit as shown on wikipedia's
article. Looking at the height of the backrest, and comparing it to the
few vintage racers I've had a chance to sit in (though not drive), I
suspect the driver wasn't nearly as exposed as the article suggests, but
instead fit mostly within the body of the vehicle.
For example, look at
http://www.speedace.info/land_speed_record_story.htm
The first photo is the Jamais Contente with the driver sitting up on the
edge of the cockpit, the third image shows the driver of another
streamlined machine actually sitting down inside it in driving position.
I could be wrong, but it sure looks like the driver of the Jamais
Contente would sit down inside it like that when actually driving
instead of showing off.
Still, that does leave the very un-streamlined undercarriage....
--
josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/ >
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html >
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Date: 09 Oct 2007 16:57:36
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
|
In article <MPG.2174aa9a751d457e9897b0@newsgroups.comcast.net >,
<josh@phred.org > wrote:
> In article <5q8lg3ph215kvi24q51v76to3ntrqjkjfb@4ax.com>,
> carlfogel@comcast.net says...
>
> > This handsome electric car did over 65 mph by May 1st 1899:
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Jamais_Contente
> >
> > As the text points out, the wicked streamlining was mostly useless
> > because of the wheels and the driver sticking out like sore thumbs,
> > but I'd love to cruise down Main Street in that thing!
>
> I'd love to see a picture of the driver actually driving the car,
> instead of sitting up on the edge of the cockpit as shown on wikipedia's
> article. Looking at the height of the backrest, and comparing it to the
> few vintage racers I've had a chance to sit in (though not drive), I
> suspect the driver wasn't nearly as exposed as the article suggests, but
> instead fit mostly within the body of the vehicle.
>
> For example, look at
> http://www.speedace.info/land_speed_record_story.htm
>
> The first photo is the Jamais Contente with the driver sitting up on the
> edge of the cockpit, the third image shows the driver of another
> streamlined machine actually sitting down inside it in driving position.
>
> I could be wrong, but it sure looks like the driver of the Jamais
> Contente would sit down inside it like that when actually driving
> instead of showing off.
>
> Still, that does leave the very un-streamlined undercarriage....
Well, images of La Jamais Contente are few, as most of my Google Image
searches turn up either copies of the Wikipedia photo, or your photo
from the speedace site.
Both show the driver, from two different angles (and apparently in two
different settings) in the same perched-high position.
Then I found this photo, which shows the car (or possibly a later
replica; it's in color, so this is presumably a much more recent photo
than the others) without a driver, and what appears to be the seat
cushion in the cockpit.
http://www.univ-evry.fr/labos/gerpisa/lettre/numeros/132/images/132.gif
http://www.univ-evry.fr/labos/gerpisa/lettre/numeros/132/index.html
Darned if it isn't nearly flush with the cockpit sides!
The only other image I found was an illustration of the vehicle in
motion, which shows the same perched-up position, but that could well
have been drawn from the famous posed photo.
Nonetheless, I don't think the driver is sitting up on the edge of the
cockpit in the famous photos. I think the seat really is that high, for
what design reason I have no idea.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 09 Oct 2007 13:27:25
From:
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
|
On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 16:57:36 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca >
wrote:
>In article <MPG.2174aa9a751d457e9897b0@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
> <josh@phred.org> wrote:
>
>> In article <5q8lg3ph215kvi24q51v76to3ntrqjkjfb@4ax.com>,
>> carlfogel@comcast.net says...
>>
>> > This handsome electric car did over 65 mph by May 1st 1899:
>> >
>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Jamais_Contente
>> >
>> > As the text points out, the wicked streamlining was mostly useless
>> > because of the wheels and the driver sticking out like sore thumbs,
>> > but I'd love to cruise down Main Street in that thing!
>>
>> I'd love to see a picture of the driver actually driving the car,
>> instead of sitting up on the edge of the cockpit as shown on wikipedia's
>> article. Looking at the height of the backrest, and comparing it to the
>> few vintage racers I've had a chance to sit in (though not drive), I
>> suspect the driver wasn't nearly as exposed as the article suggests, but
>> instead fit mostly within the body of the vehicle.
>>
>> For example, look at
>> http://www.speedace.info/land_speed_record_story.htm
>>
>> The first photo is the Jamais Contente with the driver sitting up on the
>> edge of the cockpit, the third image shows the driver of another
>> streamlined machine actually sitting down inside it in driving position.
>>
>> I could be wrong, but it sure looks like the driver of the Jamais
>> Contente would sit down inside it like that when actually driving
>> instead of showing off.
>>
>> Still, that does leave the very un-streamlined undercarriage....
>
>Well, images of La Jamais Contente are few, as most of my Google Image
>searches turn up either copies of the Wikipedia photo, or your photo
>from the speedace site.
>
>Both show the driver, from two different angles (and apparently in two
>different settings) in the same perched-high position.
>
>Then I found this photo, which shows the car (or possibly a later
>replica; it's in color, so this is presumably a much more recent photo
>than the others) without a driver, and what appears to be the seat
>cushion in the cockpit.
>
>http://www.univ-evry.fr/labos/gerpisa/lettre/numeros/132/images/132.gif
>http://www.univ-evry.fr/labos/gerpisa/lettre/numeros/132/index.html
>
>Darned if it isn't nearly flush with the cockpit sides!
>
>The only other image I found was an illustration of the vehicle in
>motion, which shows the same perched-up position, but that could well
>have been drawn from the famous posed photo.
>
>Nonetheless, I don't think the driver is sitting up on the edge of the
>cockpit in the famous photos. I think the seat really is that high, for
>what design reason I have no idea.
Dear Ryan,
I suspect that the odd perch was just a sign that early cars were
copying horse-drawn carriages. Despite its streamlined appearance, the
car was mostly intended for bouncing along at low speeds on the poor
roads of 1899--what we take for streamlining may have been just the
easiest way to build a body around the batteries and electric motor.
The Wiki entry for the driver shows him sitting bolt upright with his
wife sitting sidesaddle behind him and the car wreathed with flower
garlands:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camille_Jenatzy
These side views show that the steering tiller (steering wheels were
still regarded with suspicion) is way up high, supporting the notion
that the driver sat up out in the open:
http://www.speedace.info/jamais.htm
Here's the predecessor, which set the previous speed record of 57 mph
and whose design clearly has the driver up in the air above what looks
like a rocket-ship body:
http://www.speedace.info/jeantaude.htm
Again, it was probably just an easy way to build a body over an
electric car, with only vague notions of aerodynamics. Note the
exposed secondary chain drive for the electric motor--the Jamais
switched to direct internal drive.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
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Date: 09 Oct 2007 03:17:39
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
|
In article <5q8lg3ph215kvi24q51v76to3ntrqjkjfb@4ax.com >,
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:12:52 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >Surprisingly, the history section seems pretty good, describing both the
> >political and performance landmarks of the early sport. One thing he
> >points out that I hadn't thought of was that when Mile-a-Minute Murphy
> >set his rail-paced record, no car was able to beat his speed for a
> >decade.
>
> [snip]
>
> Dear Ryan,
>
> Am I to understand that, to save his contemptible life, Gene Sloane
> dared to practise upon our credulous simplicity?
>
> [Ryan nods as he weeps.]
>
> Our revenge shall be swift and terrible!
Ah crud. I should have fact-checked that!
> (Sorry, couldn't resist it, not with "swift" in the Pirate King's
> dialogue.)
>
> Here's a fun table of swiftness records, with links to many photos:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_speed_record#1898_to_1947
>
> This handsome electric car did over 65 mph by May 1st 1899:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Jamais_Contente
>
> As the text points out, the wicked streamlining was mostly useless
> because of the wheels and the driver sticking out like sore thumbs,
> but I'd love to cruise down Main Street in that thing!
>
> Anyway, two months later, Mile-a-minute Murphy dawdled along for a
> mile at an average speed of only 62 mph on June 30, 1899:
>
> http://arrts-arrchives.com/mmm.html
>
>
> http://www.fredrompelberg.com/en/html/algemeen/fredrompelberg/record.asp#a02P1
> Q1LKT1UV6572MX66
>
> Lots of cars beat 60 mph shortly after 1899. Henry Ford did a mile at
> over 91 mph on a frozen lake in 1904.
>
> By 1909, ten years after Murphy, cars and motorcycles were doing well
> over 120 mph.
Okay, so since Mr. Sloane's history turns out to be unreliable, I take
back all the nice things I said about him.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | |
Date: 09 Oct 2007 17:34:15
From:
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
|
Ryan Cousineau writes:
>> Lots of cars beat 60 mph shortly after 1899. Henry Ford did a mile at
>> over 91 mph on a frozen lake in 1904.
>> By 1909, ten years after Murphy, cars and motorcycles were doing well
>> over 120 mph.
> Okay, so since Mr. Sloane's history turns out to be unreliable, I take
> back all the nice things I said about him.
You ought to also know that Sloan has testified as an expert witness
supporting false claims of injury against the bicycle business. When
involved in such a case, I was disappointed in his biting the hand
that fed him.
Jobst Brandt
|
| | | | |
Date: 10 Oct 2007 01:10:39
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
|
In article <470bbb97$0$14135$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >,
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau writes:
>
> >> Lots of cars beat 60 mph shortly after 1899. Henry Ford did a mile at
> >> over 91 mph on a frozen lake in 1904.
>
> >> By 1909, ten years after Murphy, cars and motorcycles were doing well
> >> over 120 mph.
>
> > Okay, so since Mr. Sloane's history turns out to be unreliable, I take
> > back all the nice things I said about him.
>
> You ought to also know that Sloan has testified as an expert witness
> supporting false claims of injury against the bicycle business. When
> involved in such a case, I was disappointed in his biting the hand
> that fed him.
Sheesh. I'm beginning to wonder if there's anything Sloane didn't do
wrong, cycling-wise. I wouldn't be shocked anymore to hear he was seen
hanging around Marco Pantani's hotel on the day of his death, convinced
Cannondale to take a shot at the motorcycle and ATV business, and gave
Dario Pegoretti cancer.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | | | |
Date: 10 Oct 2007 01:56:07
From:
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
|
Ryan Cousineau writes:
>>>> Lots of cars beat 60 mph shortly after 1899. Henry Ford did a
>>>> mile at over 91 mph on a frozen lake in 1904.
>>>> By 1909, ten years after Murphy, cars and motorcycles were doing well
>>>> over 120 mph.
>>> Okay, so since Mr. Sloane's history turns out to be unreliable, I take
>>> back all the nice things I said about him.
>> You ought to also know that Sloan has testified as an expert witness
>> supporting false claims of injury against the bicycle business. When
>> involved in such a case, I was disappointed in his biting the hand
>> that fed him.
> Sheesh. I'm beginning to wonder if there's anything Sloane didn't
> do wrong, cycling-wise. I wouldn't be shocked anymore to hear he
> was seen hanging around Marco Pantani's hotel on the day of his
> death, convinced Cannondale to take a shot at the motorcycle and ATV
> business, and gave Dario Pegoretti cancer.
You're catching on.
Jobst Brandt
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 09 Oct 2007 22:23:57
From: vey
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
|
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau writes:
>
>>>>> Lots of cars beat 60 mph shortly after 1899. Henry Ford did a
>>>>> mile at over 91 mph on a frozen lake in 1904.
>
>>>>> By 1909, ten years after Murphy, cars and motorcycles were doing well
>>>>> over 120 mph.
>
>>>> Okay, so since Mr. Sloane's history turns out to be unreliable, I take
>>>> back all the nice things I said about him.
>
>>> You ought to also know that Sloan has testified as an expert witness
>>> supporting false claims of injury against the bicycle business. When
>>> involved in such a case, I was disappointed in his biting the hand
>>> that fed him.
>
>> Sheesh. I'm beginning to wonder if there's anything Sloane didn't
>> do wrong, cycling-wise. I wouldn't be shocked anymore to hear he
>> was seen hanging around Marco Pantani's hotel on the day of his
>> death, convinced Cannondale to take a shot at the motorcycle and ATV
>> business, and gave Dario Pegoretti cancer.
>
> You're catching on.
>
> Jobst Brandt
Oh, c'mon. Sloan was one of the guys that recommended maintaining a
regular pace and changing gears to keep making that pace.
Last week, a "former racer" (and I seem to meet too many of them)
asked/told me if I didn't have too many gears, and I said no, I used
them all. I explained that I kept a steady pace up and down grades and
when I got a little tired.
That was a new concept back in Sloan's day and (I hear) among former racers.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 09 Oct 2007 22:05:11
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
|
>>>>>> Lots of cars beat 60 mph shortly after 1899. Henry Ford did a
>>>>>> mile at over 91 mph on a frozen lake in 1904.
>>>>>> By 1909, ten years after Murphy, cars and motorcycles were doing well
>>>>>> over 120 mph.
>>>>> Okay, so since Mr. Sloane's history turns out to be unreliable, I
>>>>> take back all the nice things I said about him.
>>>> You ought to also know that Sloan has testified as an expert witness
>>>> supporting false claims of injury against the bicycle business. When
>>>> involved in such a case, I was disappointed in his biting the hand
>>>> that fed him.
>> Ryan Cousineau writes:
>>> Sheesh. I'm beginning to wonder if there's anything Sloane didn't
>>> do wrong, cycling-wise. I wouldn't be shocked anymore to hear he
>>> was seen hanging around Marco Pantani's hotel on the day of his
>>> death, convinced Cannondale to take a shot at the motorcycle and ATV
>>> business, and gave Dario Pegoretti cancer.
> jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>> You're catching on.
vey wrote:
> Oh, c'mon. Sloan was one of the guys that recommended maintaining a
> regular pace and changing gears to keep making that pace.
>
> Last week, a "former racer" (and I seem to meet too many of them)
> asked/told me if I didn't have too many gears, and I said no, I used
> them all. I explained that I kept a steady pace up and down grades and
> when I got a little tired.
>
> That was a new concept back in Sloan's day and (I hear) among former
> racers.
Long before Sloan, Anquetil said, 'I drink before I'm thirsty and shift
before the hill'.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | |
Date: 09 Oct 2007 00:15:04
From:
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
|
On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 03:17:39 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca >
wrote:
[snip]
>Okay, so since Mr. Sloane's history turns out to be unreliable, I take
>back all the nice things I said about him.
Dear Ryan,
If John Dacey puts that into latin, we have a motto for RBT squabbles!
:-)
I want something juicier than "Falsum in uno, falsum in omni!"
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
|
| | | | |
Date: 09 Oct 2007 04:09:59
From: Ben C
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
|
On 2007-10-09, carlfogel@comcast.net <carlfogel@comcast.net > wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 03:17:39 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>Okay, so since Mr. Sloane's history turns out to be unreliable, I take
>>back all the nice things I said about him.
>
> Dear Ryan,
>
> If John Dacey puts that into latin, we have a motto for RBT squabbles!
>
> :-)
>
> I want something juicier than "Falsum in uno, falsum in omni!"
propter illius turpitudinem omnia dulcia dicta revocans exsecror.
--
"From Hell's heart I stab at thee, for Hate's sake I spit my dying breath
at thee."
|
| | |
Date: 08 Oct 2007 23:08:23
From: Greens
Subject: Re: Tech from the past: was Gene Sloane trying to kill us?
|
<carlfogel@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:5q8lg3ph215kvi24q51v76to3ntrqjkjfb@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:12:52 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>Surprisingly, the history section seems pretty good, describing both the
>>political and performance landmarks of the early sport. One thing he
>>points out that I hadn't thought of was that when Mile-a-Minute Murphy
>>set his rail-paced record, no car was able to beat his speed for a
>>decade.
>
> [snip]
>
> Dear Ryan,
>
> Am I to understand that, to save his contemptible life, Gene Sloane
> dared to practise upon our credulous simplicity?
>
> [Ryan nods as he weeps.]
>
> Our revenge shall be swift and terrible!
>
> (Sorry, couldn't resist it, not with "swift" in the Pirate King's
> dialogue.)
>
> Here's a fun table of swiftness records, with links to many photos:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_speed_record#1898_to_1947
>
> This handsome electric car did over 65 mph by May 1st 1899:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Jamais_Contente
>
> As the text points out, the wicked streamlining was mostly useless
> because of the wheels and the driver sticking out like sore thumbs,
> but I'd love to cruise down Main Street in that thing!
>
> Anyway, two months later, Mile-a-minute Murphy dawdled along for a
> mile at an average speed of only 62 mph on June 30, 1899:
>
> http://arrts-arrchives.com/mmm.html
>
>
> http://www.fredrompelberg.com/en/html/algemeen/fredrompelberg/record.asp#a02P1Q1LKT1UV6572MX66
>
> Lots of cars beat 60 mph shortly after 1899. Henry Ford did a mile at
> over 91 mph on a frozen lake in 1904.
>
> By 1909, ten years after Murphy, cars and motorcycles were doing well
> over 120 mph.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel
>
It's funny how in those old designs they seem to have focused on making the
machine body very streamlined but totally forgetting the driver was going to
be sticking out of it four feet. It's like they thought humans would
magically pass through the air without resistance just because they were
human.
|
|
