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Main
Date: 22 Aug 2007 06:46:19
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: The bike boom of the early 70's
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When Carl sent me the link to the bike boom crash of '74, I was fascinated
reading the data. For one I was living in the era and had it blow right by
me. And second I was living in the Santa Clara Valley which had a 48-49%
increase, geographically the highest in bicycles sales. In the article, the
bike
boom might have been blamed on climate, but I had another theory:
The Draft of the Vietnam War.
I graduated high school in 1972 during the heart of the bike boom. In
1970-1974 as I recall, all high school males had to enter the lottery draft
of the Vietnam War. One of the ways to get out of the draft was to extend
your education by attending college, which many hs students did. I was
attending San Jose State Univ. at the time in the Santa Clara Valley.
So where does the bike boom fit in?
The surge of college students to get out of the war, and cheap
transportation
to get around campus. San Jose State was 7-long blocks long, and was just
as wide. I can recall there were bicycles everywhere, seemed like everyone
rode a road bike back then. I remember rolls and rolls of bicycles, stock
piled horizontally in bike racks all over the campus. Talk about parking,
can you imagine not being able to find a bicycle parking space?
When the Vietnam War was nearing the end 1974-1975, many college students
returned to the normal life and result, the crash of the bicycle boom.
I could be wrong about the theory, but it was just a thought.
comments?
-tom
Carls charts that he posted:
The Chart of the bicycle boom and crash
http://www.truewheelers.org/research/studies/aaa/images/fig01sm.gif
The Article
http://www.truewheelers.org/research/studies/aaa/02users.htm
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Date: 14 Sep 2007 00:35:21
From: sergio
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On 13 Set, 23:57, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
> Something like this?
Sort of, though not quite.
Somebody mentioned Chiorda bikes?
They were all around here, too, in the late sixties. A lot of them
were just crap.
Sergio
Pisa
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Date: 14 Sep 2007 06:34:36
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
SMS wrote:
>
> Thankfully flat bar bicycles were not very popular, most everyone rode a
> "10 speed" though there were some three speeds as well. It'd have been a
> much less enjoyable campus with flat bar bicycles, though probably less
> accidents would have occurred.
You refer to the concurrent popularity of 10-speeds and low-cut
women's wear?
Chalo
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Date: 13 Sep 2007 20:00:37
From: SMS
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
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Tom Nakashima wrote:
> to get around campus. San Jose State was 7-long blocks long, and was just
> as wide. I can recall there were bicycles everywhere, seemed like everyone
> rode a road bike back then. I remember rolls and rolls of bicycles, stock
> piled horizontally in bike racks all over the campus. Talk about parking,
> can you imagine not being able to find a bicycle parking space?
> When the Vietnam War was nearing the end 1974-1975, many college students
> returned to the normal life and result, the crash of the bicycle boom.
> I could be wrong about the theory, but it was just a thought.
When I entered college in 1974, bicycles were still the way to get
around the campus. It was a very large campus and there was really no
other way to get between classes in only 15 minutes if you had back to
back classes. There were "only" 27,000 students on campus when I was in
school, and probably more than 27,000 bicycles since the staff and
professors rode them as well. Now the same school is about 50,000
people, the campus is now even more spread out, yet bicycles have fallen
from favor, and the campus bus system now is used more. It seems
inconvenient to me to use a bus to go only a mile or so, but maybe
they've vastly improved the bus system.
Thankfully flat bar bicycles were not very popular, most everyone rode a
"10 speed" though there were some three speeds as well. It'd have been a
much less enjoyable campus with flat bar bicycles, though probably less
accidents would have occurred.
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Date: 13 Sep 2007 14:28:24
From: sergio
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
> I used to read about these bikes, but unless you lived in or around NYC,
Wait a minute.
I am feeling feel rather nostalgic after reading this much.
Can anyone come up with a photograph of my first 'ten-speed' bike? I
would very much like to see it again.
It was a Pierce Arrow, painted in gold, bought in 1969 at Jamaica
(N.Y.).
Thanks
Sergio
Pisa
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Date: 13 Sep 2007 20:55:46
From: Dan Becker
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
In article <1189718904.233427.143750@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com >,
sergio <servadio@df.unipi.it > wrote:
> > I used to read about these bikes, but unless you lived in or around NYC,
>
> I am feeling feel rather nostalgic after reading this much.
>
> my first 'ten-speed' bike?
> It was a Pierce Arrow, painted in gold, bought in 1969 at Jamaica
> (N.Y.).
>
> Sergio
> Pisa
And I am nostalgic too. There you are in Pisa pining for a bike bought
in USA. My first 10-speed was an Italian Gloria, orange with royal blue
highlight on the headtube between the lugs and blue bands on the seat
tube, with chrome fork and stays. Would have been 1970, maybe 1971.
Sigh.
Dan
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Date: 13 Sep 2007 15:57:14
From:
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:28:24 -0700, sergio <servadio@df.unipi.it >
wrote:
>
>> I used to read about these bikes, but unless you lived in or around NYC,
>
>Wait a minute.
>I am feeling feel rather nostalgic after reading this much.
>
>Can anyone come up with a photograph of my first 'ten-speed' bike? I
>would very much like to see it again.
>It was a Pierce Arrow, painted in gold, bought in 1969 at Jamaica
>(N.Y.).
>
>Thanks
>
>Sergio
>Pisa
Dear Sergio,
Something like this?
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j53/penguinos/Pierce_Arrow_Bike.jpg
Text:
http://bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-282565.html
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
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Date: 13 Sep 2007 21:34:26
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
In article
<afcje3lho3n1scul01o19a1t95ou626jk5@4ax.com >,
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:28:24 -0700, sergio <servadio@df.unipi.it>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >> I used to read about these bikes, but unless you lived in or around NYC,
> >
> >Wait a minute.
> >I am feeling feel rather nostalgic after reading this much.
> >
> >Can anyone come up with a photograph of my first 'ten-speed' bike? I
> >would very much like to see it again.
> >It was a Pierce Arrow, painted in gold, bought in 1969 at Jamaica
> >(N.Y.).
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >Sergio
> >Pisa
>
> Dear Sergio,
>
> Something like this?
>
> http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j53/penguinos/Pierce_Arrow_Bike.jpg
>
> Text:
>
> http://bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-282565.html
OK. What was that Italian bicycle with the chrome plated
frame and cottered cranks from the sixties? I had one
second hand for a while.
--
Michael Press
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Date: 14 Sep 2007 06:19:20
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
In article <rubrum-02297A.21342613092007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net >,
Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net > wrote:
> In article
> <afcje3lho3n1scul01o19a1t95ou626jk5@4ax.com>,
> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:28:24 -0700, sergio <servadio@df.unipi.it>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >> I used to read about these bikes, but unless you lived in or around NYC,
> > >
> > >Wait a minute.
> > >I am feeling feel rather nostalgic after reading this much.
> > >
> > >Can anyone come up with a photograph of my first 'ten-speed' bike? I
> > >would very much like to see it again.
> > >It was a Pierce Arrow, painted in gold, bought in 1969 at Jamaica
> > >(N.Y.).
> > >
> > >Thanks
> > >
> > >Sergio
> > >Pisa
> >
> > Dear Sergio,
> >
> > Something like this?
> >
> > http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j53/penguinos/Pierce_Arrow_Bike.jpg
> >
> > Text:
> >
> > http://bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-282565.html
>
> OK. What was that Italian bicycle with the chrome plated
> frame and cottered cranks from the sixties? I had one
> second hand for a while.
All of them?
Are you describing a Chiorda?
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 14 Sep 2007 18:32:16
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
In article
<rcousine-58F9C8.23192013092007@news.telus.net >,
Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <rubrum-02297A.21342613092007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
> Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <afcje3lho3n1scul01o19a1t95ou626jk5@4ax.com>,
> > carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:28:24 -0700, sergio <servadio@df.unipi.it>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >> I used to read about these bikes, but unless you lived in or around NYC,
> > > >
> > > >Wait a minute.
> > > >I am feeling feel rather nostalgic after reading this much.
> > > >
> > > >Can anyone come up with a photograph of my first 'ten-speed' bike? I
> > > >would very much like to see it again.
> > > >It was a Pierce Arrow, painted in gold, bought in 1969 at Jamaica
> > > >(N.Y.).
> > > >
> > > >Thanks
> > > >
> > > >Sergio
> > > >Pisa
> > >
> > > Dear Sergio,
> > >
> > > Something like this?
> > >
> > > http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j53/penguinos/Pierce_Arrow_Bike.jpg
> > >
> > > Text:
> > >
> > > http://bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-282565.html
> >
> > OK. What was that Italian bicycle with the chrome plated
> > frame and cottered cranks from the sixties? I had one
> > second hand for a while.
>
> All of them?
>
> Are you describing a Chiorda?
I am asking others because I do not remember the name.
--
Michael Press
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Date: 21 Sep 2007 01:00:43
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
"Michael Press" <rubrum@pacbell.net > wrote in message
news:rubrum-56252E.11321614092007@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
> In article
> <rcousine-58F9C8.23192013092007@news.telus.net>,
> Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca> wrote:
>
> > In article
<rubrum-02297A.21342613092007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net >,
> > Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >
> > > In article
> > > <afcje3lho3n1scul01o19a1t95ou626jk5@4ax.com>,
> > > carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:28:24 -0700, sergio <servadio@df.unipi.it>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> I used to read about these bikes, but unless you lived in or
around NYC,
> > > > >
> > > > >Wait a minute.
> > > > >I am feeling feel rather nostalgic after reading this much.
> > > > >
> > > > >Can anyone come up with a photograph of my first 'ten-speed'
bike? I
> > > > >would very much like to see it again.
> > > > >It was a Pierce Arrow, painted in gold, bought in 1969 at Jamaica
> > > > >(N.Y.).
> > > > >
> > > > >Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > >Sergio
> > > > >Pisa
> > > >
> > > > Dear Sergio,
> > > >
> > > > Something like this?
> > > >
> > > >
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j53/penguinos/Pierce_Arrow_Bike.jpg
> > > >
> > > > Text:
> > > >
> > > > http://bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-282565.html
> > >
> > > OK. What was that Italian bicycle with the chrome plated
> > > frame and cottered cranks from the sixties? I had one
> > > second hand for a while.
> >
> > All of them?
> >
> > Are you describing a Chiorda?
>
> I am asking others because I do not remember the name.
>
> --
> Michael Press
Frejus and Legnano both had chrome plated frames. I think that Atala may
have sold one too.
Chas.
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Date: 11 Sep 2007 11:36:47
From:
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On Aug 22, 12:03 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu >
wrote:
>
> It also misses the boat, in my opinion, regarding the distinction
> between lightweight/other bikes. The increase in sales of lightweight
> bikes in the 70s was not due to the gas "crisis" but rather to the entry
> of higher-quality cheap lightweight bikes from Japan out-competing the
> venerable, massive, Schwinn Varsity. Prior to that time, the only
> "lightweight" bikes available were more expensive, exotic European
> racing bikes with such things as tubular tires.
>
>
> --
>
> David L. Johnson
>
> Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on
> no account be allowed to do the job.
> -- Douglas Adams
Granted most of us may have been looking for alternatives to the
Varsity and Continental, but Japanese bikes were not the only choices,
at least in the late '60s and early '70s. Peugeot had the UO-8 and
its siblings, and Gitane, Motobecane, and Mercier had me-too
machines. Many great Italian marques had "gaspipe" bikes: Atala,
Benotto, Frejus, too many to even find! Same for Falcon, Dawes, and
Raleigh, with pretty darn nice entry-level offerrings. Just a few
years earlier you could get a much lighter European machine for the
same price as a Varsity or Continental. These were clincher-equipped
bikes, you had to go up to the next price level (around $60-$80 more
if I recall correctly) to get into a PX-10E class or Raleigh
Competition.
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Date: 13 Sep 2007 11:27:43
From: vey
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
kenbikeman@gmail.com wrote:
> On Aug 22, 12:03 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> It also misses the boat, in my opinion, regarding the distinction
>> between lightweight/other bikes. The increase in sales of lightweight
>> bikes in the 70s was not due to the gas "crisis" but rather to the entry
>> of higher-quality cheap lightweight bikes from Japan out-competing the
>> venerable, massive, Schwinn Varsity. Prior to that time, the only
>> "lightweight" bikes available were more expensive, exotic European
>> racing bikes with such things as tubular tires.
>>
>
>> --
>>
>> David L. Johnson
>>
>> Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on
>> no account be allowed to do the job.
>> -- Douglas Adams
>
> Granted most of us may have been looking for alternatives to the
> Varsity and Continental, but Japanese bikes were not the only choices,
> at least in the late '60s and early '70s. Peugeot had the UO-8 and
> its siblings, and Gitane, Motobecane, and Mercier had me-too
> machines. Many great Italian marques had "gaspipe" bikes: Atala,
> Benotto, Frejus, too many to even find! Same for Falcon, Dawes, and
> Raleigh, with pretty darn nice entry-level offerrings. Just a few
> years earlier you could get a much lighter European machine for the
> same price as a Varsity or Continental. These were clincher-equipped
> bikes, you had to go up to the next price level (around $60-$80 more
> if I recall correctly) to get into a PX-10E class or Raleigh
> Competition.
>
I used to read about these bikes, but unless you lived in or around NYC,
I don't think there were many available (well, maybe SoCal). Most of the
LBS's around here in the hinterlands sport "since 1972" or later
slogans, but the Schwinn dealers were here and are now long gone. I
looked into shipping a bike in from NYC, but the (then regulated) LTL
rates were sky high. In the hundreds.
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Date: 13 Sep 2007 22:52:47
From: Kerry Montgomery
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
"vey" <junker@ericvey.com > wrote in message
news:fcbknk$9vq$1@news.datemas.de...
> kenbikeman@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Aug 22, 12:03 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It also misses the boat, in my opinion, regarding the distinction
>>> between lightweight/other bikes. The increase in sales of lightweight
>>> bikes in the 70s was not due to the gas "crisis" but rather to the entry
>>> of higher-quality cheap lightweight bikes from Japan out-competing the
>>> venerable, massive, Schwinn Varsity. Prior to that time, the only
>>> "lightweight" bikes available were more expensive, exotic European
>>> racing bikes with such things as tubular tires.
>>>
>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> David L. Johnson
>>>
>>> Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on
>>> no account be allowed to do the job.
>>> -- Douglas Adams
>>
>> Granted most of us may have been looking for alternatives to the
>> Varsity and Continental, but Japanese bikes were not the only choices,
>> at least in the late '60s and early '70s. Peugeot had the UO-8 and
>> its siblings, and Gitane, Motobecane, and Mercier had me-too
>> machines. Many great Italian marques had "gaspipe" bikes: Atala,
>> Benotto, Frejus, too many to even find! Same for Falcon, Dawes, and
>> Raleigh, with pretty darn nice entry-level offerrings. Just a few
>> years earlier you could get a much lighter European machine for the
>> same price as a Varsity or Continental. These were clincher-equipped
>> bikes, you had to go up to the next price level (around $60-$80 more
>> if I recall correctly) to get into a PX-10E class or Raleigh
>> Competition.
>>
>
> I used to read about these bikes, but unless you lived in or around NYC, I
> don't think there were many available (well, maybe SoCal). Most of the
> LBS's around here in the hinterlands sport "since 1972" or later slogans,
> but the Schwinn dealers were here and are now long gone. I looked into
> shipping a bike in from NYC, but the (then regulated) LTL rates were sky
> high. In the hundreds.
Lived and worked in a LBS in Salem, Oregon (hinterland indeed) in 1971 and
1972. Sold Gitanes, Peugeots, Schwinns, Raleighs, and some others I'm not
remembering. The shop (Scott's Cycles) has been around about 100 years now,
including Schwinn coming and going.
Kerry
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Date: 10 Sep 2007 11:56:32
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On Sep 10, 10:11 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu > wrote:
> "Jay Beattie" <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1187816590.974679.85880@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > I rode three
> > times a week with Terry (his shop ride out of the Williams St. shop --
> > it cut back to two nights when track season started).
>
> I dropped by Terry Shaw's shop this past Saturday coming home from a the
> Old LaHonda Ride to say hello. He still the same....He has long time friend
> Jerry working for him as the lone mechanic. There was a cyclist in front of
> me getting in the door, his chain had come off the bike, and was dangling on
> the rear cog and bottom bracket shell. He asked; "How much will it cost me
> to have the chain put back on?" Jerry replied; "We won't know until we get
> it on the bike stand!...Right Terry? as he laughed, and blurted out again;
> "UNTIL WE GET IT ON THE BIKE STAND!"
> Terry just smiled. So Terry wrote up a repair ticket, and told him it will
> be ready in a few days. The customer left, then Jerry and Terry just
> laughed.
> That's not the first time I've seen this happen, I just played like I didn't
> hear a thing...guess bike shops aren't doing that well lately.
> -tom
Eeek. I'm sorry to hear about that. He was a pedant back in the late
70s/early 80s -- warning me about building my own wheels (which could
only be done by a seventh level wheel mage with Jedi training), and he
was full of lore that would drive Jobst crazy, but he loved the
business and lived like a monk -- throwing all of his money in to
Campy tools and Phil's first spoke cutter/threader. He also brought a
lot of people in to racing (including me) with his shop rides and his
sponsorship of the SJBC. He was very opinionated, though, and had a
little battle going with George Slough, who was selling parts cheap
out of his house in Almaden Valley. I think Terry put pressure on
Mike Sinyard to shut off the flow of parts from Specialized.
By way of history (in case someone wants to write the history of SCV
bike shops): I met Terry in '75 in Steven Bleiler's shop under Western
Mountaineering. Bleiler was in the space on Williams St. before Terry
but had moved to bigger digs -- and then went bankrupt with my PX10 on
consignment and my deposit for a Proteus frame, which never came. I
lost my $100 deposit!. Waaah, but I got my PX10 back. Terry started
the Williams St. shop back up in about late '76 or '77. Actually,
Bleiler going bankrupt was how I found Dale Saso, who built the frame
that-would-have-been-a-Proteus. It was Dale's fourth frame. Cost me
the princley sum of $200 (or $250, I can't remember). Dale was (and
I'm sure still is) a great guy. -- Jay Beattie.
|
| | |
Date: 10 Sep 2007 13:02:00
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
"Jay Beattie" <jbeattie@lindsayhart.com > wrote in message
news:1189450592.620332.323390@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 10, 10:11 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>> "Jay Beattie" <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1187816590.974679.85880@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > I rode three
>> > times a week with Terry (his shop ride out of the Williams St. shop --
>> > it cut back to two nights when track season started).
>>
>> I dropped by Terry Shaw's shop this past Saturday coming home from a the
>> Old LaHonda Ride to say hello. He still the same....He has long time
>> friend
>> Jerry working for him as the lone mechanic. There was a cyclist in front
>> of
>> me getting in the door, his chain had come off the bike, and was dangling
>> on
>> the rear cog and bottom bracket shell. He asked; "How much will it cost
>> me
>> to have the chain put back on?" Jerry replied; "We won't know until we
>> get
>> it on the bike stand!...Right Terry? as he laughed, and blurted out
>> again;
>> "UNTIL WE GET IT ON THE BIKE STAND!"
>> Terry just smiled. So Terry wrote up a repair ticket, and told him it
>> will
>> be ready in a few days. The customer left, then Jerry and Terry just
>> laughed.
>> That's not the first time I've seen this happen, I just played like I
>> didn't
>> hear a thing...guess bike shops aren't doing that well lately.
>> -tom
>
> Eeek. I'm sorry to hear about that. He was a pedant back in the late
> 70s/early 80s -- warning me about building my own wheels (which could
> only be done by a seventh level wheel mage with Jedi training), and he
> was full of lore that would drive Jobst crazy, but he loved the
> business and lived like a monk -- throwing all of his money in to
> Campy tools and Phil's first spoke cutter/threader. He also brought a
> lot of people in to racing (including me) with his shop rides and his
> sponsorship of the SJBC. He was very opinionated, though, and had a
> little battle going with George Slough, who was selling parts cheap
> out of his house in Almaden Valley. I think Terry put pressure on
> Mike Sinyard to shut off the flow of parts from Specialized.
>
> By way of history (in case someone wants to write the history of SCV
> bike shops): I met Terry in '75 in Steven Bleiler's shop under Western
> Mountaineering. Bleiler was in the space on Williams St. before Terry
> but had moved to bigger digs -- and then went bankrupt with my PX10 on
> consignment and my deposit for a Proteus frame, which never came. I
> lost my $100 deposit!. Waaah, but I got my PX10 back. Terry started
> the Williams St. shop back up in about late '76 or '77. Actually,
> Bleiler going bankrupt was how I found Dale Saso, who built the frame
> that-would-have-been-a-Proteus. It was Dale's fourth frame. Cost me
> the princley sum of $200 (or $250, I can't remember). Dale was (and
> I'm sure still is) a great guy. -- Jay Beattie.
>
So you must have the original "butterfly head tube badge" that Saso used
on his frames. I like Dale, George Slough and Terry (sometimes). Terry
calls me "ethnic sizing" because he would size frames by ethnic culture. "
So I got on his case about that. We had it out pretty good at his shop one
day, all's forgotten, but he still calls me "Ethnic Sizing".
Funny that you said George Slough, because I saw him on the same day,
at his shop on Race St.
Jay, we must have crossed paths at one time or another in San Jose, being a
cyclist
-tom
|
| |
Date: 25 Aug 2007 15:44:48
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On Aug 25, 4:40 pm, sergio <serva...@df.unipi.it > wrote:
> On 25 Ago, 20:59, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> > > Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
> > >> ...I bought my first 'real' bike in 1985..a blue Ciocc(still have
> > O Sergio, can you assist?
> > The importer said 'chyoch', rhymes with roach.
>
> First the assist.
> Pronounce as if it were 'Chiok' (like in chocolate).
>
Thank you for this, Sergio, I will consider it the definitive answer
to the question. I had heard/read the same "chyoch, rhymes with roach"
story Andrew had.
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Date: 25 Aug 2007 14:40:55
From: sergio
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
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On 25 Ago, 20:59, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> > Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
> >> ...I bought my first 'real' bike in 1985..a blue Ciocc(still have
> O Sergio, can you assist?
> The importer said 'chyoch', rhymes with roach.
First the assist.
Pronounce as if it were 'Chiok' (like in chocolate).
Now a little personal story related to Ciocc (Andrew has heard it
already).
In june I was in Padova at Petranzan's, a former builder who nowadays
only does chrome plating. They work for Ciocc, and in fact there were
a bunch of forks of that brand.
There were two guys sitting outside the entrance and I was told that
one was Mr.Ciocc, himself (don't ask me what his real name is, if any
different).
So I walked up and congratulated him for his fine bikes.
In retaliation he congratulated me, having admired the bike that was
sitting in the back of my car. A very nice copper plated Wilier
Triestina.
He ventured saying that the well built steel frames of that era were
the real good bikes (he said: 'Pardon me, I should not say that, but
to be honest ... ').
That was only the beginning of a very friendly exchange of opinions
between us. At last there was promise to visit him at Settimo
Torinese, first time I get the chance to be in the area.
Sergio
Pisa
P.s. Next time you need such an assistance write to me directly. I
seldom read long threads like the present one.
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Date: 25 Aug 2007 16:47:07
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
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Sergio Servadio wrote:
> ...
> There were two guys sitting outside the entrance and I was told that
> one was Mr.Ciocc, himself (don't ask me what his real name is, if any
> different).
Giovanni Pelizzoli?
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 25 Aug 2007 14:09:19
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
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forgot Korea-Hamburger Hill
but comment from BC
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070825/ap_on_re_ca/canada_balloon_crash
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Date: 25 Aug 2007 07:55:13
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
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right. yawl correct. zeeee bicycle is a child of society.
ww2
gray flannel
nukes
california
education + knowledge
sexual freedom
rising standard of living disposable income dollar value high yen low
pyrrhic politacl war: US versus the North Viet destroyers. "no
President ever lost a war and I'n
not gonna be the first one"
defense spending
My own theory would be
that it was the whole liberal cultural environment and "back to
nature" movement: premonition laid over disaster
if it feels good...
sports afield-the european bicycle! the frisbee (invented 1951?)
running guitar bohemian surf culture back to the land
hiking...anything but gray flannel suits leading to richard nixon and
LBJ's war.
then the war was over, the yen revalued, people got married and took
jobs and had children just like the folks. fewer bicycles.
maybe Greg Lemond....?
Andy Muzi? Lemond=more bicycles?
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Date: 24 Aug 2007 06:24:28
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On Aug 23, 4:42 pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
> Dear D,
>
> Sorry,
Not at all...
> but the graph of degrees awarded turns out to be a good match
> for total enrollment.
My cohort seems to have slipped away from the statistical spotlight.
Those who returned and graduated, or just returned, spread out over
three decades? I'm guessing the same.
What was that marching song? "Oh Lord I want to have a high number..."
3xx did it for me. Which was not all that much over the alleged
national 170-ish average of the time-- or should I say, not much over
the locally and patriotically adjusted magic number where I lived,
which by rumor (substantiated by those who were drafted after the
lottery) was well above 200. Funny about that! --D-y
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Date: 24 Aug 2007 10:39:41
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
<dustoyevsky@mac.com > wrote in message
news:1187961868.356673.93870@q4g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 23, 4:42 pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
> > Dear D,
> >
> > Sorry,
>
> Not at all...
>
> > but the graph of degrees awarded turns out to be a good match
> > for total enrollment.
>
> My cohort seems to have slipped away from the statistical spotlight.
>
> Those who returned and graduated, or just returned, spread out over
> three decades? I'm guessing the same.
>
> What was that marching song? "Oh Lord I want to have a high number..."
> 3xx did it for me. Which was not all that much over the alleged
> national 170-ish average of the time-- or should I say, not much over
> the locally and patriotically adjusted magic number where I lived,
> which by rumor (substantiated by those who were drafted after the
> lottery) was well above 200. Funny about that! --D-y
>
"What was that marching song?".... "Oh Canada!".... ;-)
If your family was powerful and/or wealthy there were lots of ways around
the draft, for example: a direct commission into the Texas Air National
Guard.
Protecting the drug smuggling routes into America from bands of Chicoms
coming up the Rio Grande. SNORTTTTTT!
Chas. Dewey Canyon III
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Date: 24 Aug 2007 04:00:46
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
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On Aug 24, 12:53 am, gill...@cs.ubc.ca (Donald Gillies) wrote:
> Ozark Bicycle <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> writes:
> >IM (retrospective)O, the Paramounts were underappreciated because they
> >were a domestic product and they bore the Schwinn name.
>
> Really? Mine (P13-9 converted to P15 by the dealer) rides (25" frame
> weighs about 26 lbs) like a tank. Maybe it's those 350 gram 27" schwinn
> super record tires on 640 gram araya single-wall rims / total of about
> 3000 grams for both wheels ??
>
> Mine came from the factory with the rear wheel dished about 5 mm to
> one side. Wanting to keep it all-original, I have not yet corrected
> the problem ...
>
> Are you sure they were under-appreciated because they bore the Schwinn
> name ??
>
Yeah, pretty sure that was a big part of it.
Of course, the virtues of crap like Raleigh Records and Grand Prixs
seem to elude me, but not you.
And here's a hint, Don: weight ain't *everything*.
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Date: 24 Aug 2007 03:19:19
From:
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
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On Aug 23, 8:22 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu >
wrote:
> SocSecTrainWr...@earthlink.net wrote:
> > I turned 18 in '71. I was _never_ 2S, even though I turned 18 in
> > college. My lottery number in '72(?) was high enough to not be
> > drafted. I don't know how you avoided it but you only got a deferment
> > until the end of the semester, or if you were a senior, until the end
> > of the current year. You probably should have written your draft
> > boards and complained about not being properly classified to 1A.
>
> I don't think this is correct. If you were in college, and kept your
> grades up (at least to a 2.0) you could continue your deferment until
> graduation.
That is at odds with what the SSS site says. It specifically says that
your induction would only be delayed until the end of the semester.
However, maybe there was a grandfather clause that allowed those with
a 2-S to keep them until graduation by which time the draft was
probably over in your case. I can only say that I had no illusions
when my lottery came up that being in college was going to save me
from the draft. The end of the draft was what did that.
I have to admit, though, that I have some recollection of student
deferments working for some people at that time, so maybe there was
something that is not documented on the SSS site.
> > And, BTW, '70 was not when "everyone else" got their numbers. The
> > first draft was '69.
>
> OK, December of '69. My lottery (I was born in 51) was in '70.
>
> > I also question whether your date is a year or
> > two off: a 97 would not have been drafted from '71 on. See:
>
> >http://www.sss.gov/lotter1.htm
>
> No, a 97 supposedly would not have been drafted in '72, in '71 they went
> up to 125 according to that site. The lottery for a given year's crop
> of 18-year-olds was held the year before their call-up dates would be.
> But each draft board had its own limits, as I recall it.
Right. You're talking about the induction year, I'm talking about the
year the lottery was held.
> Where I was in
> school, in Berkeley, they had to go much higher in the numbers because
> people were doing anything, even shooting their toes off, to get out of
> the draft. But my draft board was in Fresno, which had a lot more
> willing inductees, so the numbers did not go so high.
That is again at odds with the official history, which indicates that
the numbers were applied nationwide.
> This site has something closer to what I remembered:
>
> http://www.serl.org/oralhistory/Coyne.html
>
> Note that he says he still had his 2S even after the lottery.
Whether it was good for anything or not is a different question, and
that's assuming his memory and understanding of what was happening is
accurate.
> It's hard to refresh my memory about this on the web. Most of the hits
> for 2s draft deferment bring up stories of either Cheney's or Rove's
> college days. With Cheney I think he was early enough to get the
> marriage deferment -- LBJ ended that one, along with most grad student
> deferments, in '67.
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Date: 24 Aug 2007 01:30:49
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
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On Aug 23, 9:24 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu >
wrote:
> A Muzi wrote:
> > David L. Johnson wrote:
> >> I bought my track bike (well, the frame) there. Still have it --- in
> >> fact, I still have the receipt. My memory said '71, but the receipt
> >> says '72.
>
> > That was Max Shepard, right? See him lately?
>
> Now you've hit the limit of my memory. I don't recall the name of the
> guy who ran the place -- maybe it's on the receipt, but that is for some
> strange reason in my safety deposit box.
>
> --
>
> David L. Johnson
>
> Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and Excellence.
no he's gone
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Date: 23 Aug 2007 21:12:32
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
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>>> David L. Johnson wrote:
>>>> I bought my track bike (well, the frame) there. Still have it --- in
>>>> fact, I still have the receipt. My memory said '71, but the receipt
>>>> says '72.
>> A Muzi wrote:
>>> That was Max Shepard, right? See him lately?
> "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
>> Now you've hit the limit of my memory. I don't recall the name of the
>> guy who ran the place -- maybe it's on the receipt, but that is for some
>> strange reason in my safety deposit box.
datakoll wrote:
> no he's gone
Yes but where? He just seemed to disappear one day. . .
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 24 Aug 2007 01:28:48
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
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this is Darwinism. conservative think dog eat dog nazi breeding stupid
die smawt live. jeeeez you'd think Ted Kennedy invented this here
draft law. Gnaw.
anyway. LBJ?as i remember: 5 years max for undergrad. 3-4 years
masters. 4-3 year Phd. (that's a guess, I forgot)
BUT! the law as all law is applied here was applied locally and
regionally that is to say education deferment status in Greenwich,
Conn was not the same as Statesboro, Ga.
Odd that political darwinism would work that way?
right Boss Hogg?
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Date: 23 Aug 2007 16:04:51
From:
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
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On Aug 22, 7:46 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu > wrote:
> I graduated high school in 1972 during the heart of the bike boom. In
> 1970-1974 as I recall, all high school males had to enter the lottery draft
> of the Vietnam War. One of the ways to get out of the draft was to extend
> your education by attending college, which many hs students did. I was
I graduated HS in '73 and remember the lottery and draft cards. My
recollection, though, is that college deferments (which my older
brothers used) were long gone by that time. My own theory would be
that it was the whole liberal cultural environment and "back to
nature" movement.
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Date: 23 Aug 2007 15:24:35
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
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On Aug 23, 1:24 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu >
wrote:
> Jay Beattie wrote:
> > LeMond used to come down to San Jose to visit the Gattos when he was a
> > junior racer. He was big even before he was big. Don't mention Jack
> > Disney -- it will piss-off Jobst. Disney and my fifth grade teacher,
> > Bob Tetzlaff, crashed him in a race ala the notorious Cinzano rider
> > scene from Breaking Away.
>
> Jobst and I have something in common, then. I was in a scratch race at
> the San Jose track, in maybe 72, and Tetzlaff came bashing through the
> pack right in front of me, caught my front wheel, and I went down rather
> hard. I blamed him for years for that, but really it was my lookout.
Gee, and to think we idolized "Mr. T" when I was in the fifth grade.
He was the Pan Am coach back then (1967 -- Olympic coach in 1968) and
frequently rode his fixed gear to school. One of my classmates was
Barry Wood, Phil's son. And Fred Markham and I got kicked out of Ms.
Addy's sixth grade class for screwing off. It was a world freakishly
influenced by bicycles and bicycle riders. -- Jay Beattie.
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Date: 23 Aug 2007 17:53:10
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
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>> Jobst and I have something in common, then. I was in a scratch race at
>> the San Jose track, in maybe 72, and Tetzlaff came bashing through the
>> pack right in front of me, caught my front wheel, and I went down rather
>> hard. I blamed him for years for that, but really it was my lookout.
>
> Gee, and to think we idolized "Mr. T" when I was in the fifth grade.
> He was the Pan Am coach back then (1967 -- Olympic coach in 1968) and
> frequently rode his fixed gear to school. One of my classmates was
> Barry Wood, Phil's son. And Fred Markham and I got kicked out of Ms.
> Addy's sixth grade class for screwing off. It was a world freakishly
> influenced by bicycles and bicycle riders. -- Jay Beattie.
I remember a weekend jr racing skills camp taught by Bob Tetzlaff. Learned
lots of important stuff, like how to elbow somebody and not get DQd by the
officials. And an insane run from Lexington Reservoir down Highway 17 and
into Los Gatos, which required crossing into the high-speed (or should I say
"higher-speed" as everyone's flying through there) lane for the exit. A
large group of jr riders. It seemed insane even to me at the time, but you
just simply did it. Somehow we all survived, despite some very silly riding
at very silly speeds.
And then there were the videos, er, I mean, home movies of Bob Tetzlaff at
Folsom Criterium, getting up the hill by pushing down on his legs with his
hands. We had no idea if it was an efficient way to do it, but it sure
looked impressive. I think we watched that at a Pedali Alpini christmas
party.
And since we're into names of yesterday racers, anybody remember a guy named
Larry Rairden? Or Steven Lundgren? Where are they now...
(Is this thread in the wrong newsgroup?)
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
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Date: 24 Aug 2007 18:56:58
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>...
> And then there were the videos, er, I mean, home movies of Bob Tetzlaff at
> Folsom Criterium, getting up the hill by pushing down on his legs with his
> hands. We had no idea if it was an efficient way to do it, but it sure
> looked impressive....
That technique works well on a 'bent.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 23 Aug 2007 20:51:19
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
Jay Beattie wrote:
> Gee, and to think we idolized "Mr. T" when I was in the fifth grade.
> He was the Pan Am coach back then (1967 -- Olympic coach in 1968)
We pretty much idolized him, too. I was pleased to see that he was
placed in the Hall of Fame some years back.
--
David L. Johnson
And what if you track down these men and kill them, what if you killed
all of us? From every corner of Europe, hundreds, thousands would
rise up to take our places. Even Nazis can't kill that fast.
-- Paul Henreid (Casablanca).
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Date: 23 Aug 2007 14:35:15
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On Aug 23, 2:44 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com > wrote:
> I got drafted in 1964 while I was overseas - three years after I had
> enlisted. I joined up when I was 17 1/2 and surrendered my draft card. I
> guess that the Dept of Defense wasn't very good at notifying draft boards.
> My dad had a hell of a time proving that I was already in the service. I
> didn't find out until after the fact.
>
> When I got out I had to register with my draft board again. I got a new
> draft card - I was 4Z or something like that. Later I enjoyed burning it.
Not knowing where people are and what they are doing has been
recognized as a serious problem. It has been Decided to follow
potential draftees some years in advance, so this time around there
won't be all that messy confusion. Many, many important lessons were
learned, and learned well! --D-y
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Date: 23 Aug 2007 14:18:23
From:
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On Aug 22, 11:26 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu >
wrote:
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> > So what were your numbers? I was part of only one war-time draft, and at
> > 335, wasn't going to get picked.
>
> Once you got one, that was it. Mine was 97. That was the largest in my
> group of friends, and none of the 5 of us got drafted due to the fact we
> all stayed in school until '73.
I turned 18 in '71. I was _never_ 2S, even though I turned 18 in
college. My lottery number in '72(?) was high enough to not be
drafted. I don't know how you avoided it but you only got a deferment
until the end of the semester, or if you were a senior, until the end
of the current year. You probably should have written your draft
boards and complained about not being properly classified to 1A.
And, BTW, '70 was not when "everyone else" got their numbers. The
first draft was '69. I also question whether your date is a year or
two off: a 97 would not have been drafted from '71 on. See:
http://www.sss.gov/lotter1.htm
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Date: 23 Aug 2007 21:22:15
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
SocSecTrainWreck@earthlink.net wrote:
> I turned 18 in '71. I was _never_ 2S, even though I turned 18 in
> college. My lottery number in '72(?) was high enough to not be
> drafted. I don't know how you avoided it but you only got a deferment
> until the end of the semester, or if you were a senior, until the end
> of the current year. You probably should have written your draft
> boards and complained about not being properly classified to 1A.
I don't think this is correct. If you were in college, and kept your
grades up (at least to a 2.0) you could continue your deferment until
graduation.
>
> And, BTW, '70 was not when "everyone else" got their numbers. The
> first draft was '69.
OK, December of '69. My lottery (I was born in 51) was in '70.
> I also question whether your date is a year or
> two off: a 97 would not have been drafted from '71 on. See:
>
> http://www.sss.gov/lotter1.htm
No, a 97 supposedly would not have been drafted in '72, in '71 they went
up to 125 according to that site. The lottery for a given year's crop
of 18-year-olds was held the year before their call-up dates would be.
But each draft board had its own limits, as I recall it. Where I was in
school, in Berkeley, they had to go much higher in the numbers because
people were doing anything, even shooting their toes off, to get out of
the draft. But my draft board was in Fresno, which had a lot more
willing inductees, so the numbers did not go so high.
This site has something closer to what I remembered:
http://www.serl.org/oralhistory/Coyne.html
Note that he says he still had his 2S even after the lottery.
It's hard to refresh my memory about this on the web. Most of the hits
for 2s draft deferment bring up stories of either Cheney's or Rove's
college days. With Cheney I think he was early enough to get the
marriage deferment -- LBJ ended that one, along with most grad student
deferments, in '67.
--
David L. Johnson
And what if you track down these men and kill them, what if you killed
all of us? From every corner of Europe, hundreds, thousands would
rise up to take our places. Even Nazis can't kill that fast.
-- Paul Henreid (Casablanca).
|
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Date: 23 Aug 2007 11:50:08
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On Aug 23, 10:15 am, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu >
wrote:
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >>> Paramounts were, ...<snip>... (except on the track, where it was pretty
> >>> much *THE* machine to have...
> >> You're just saying that because the Gatto brothers rode them in San Jose.
>
> > You're forgetting that Jack Disney had moved up this way as well...
>
> > And it's the *Notorious* Gatto brothers, by the way!!!
>
> Go, Vince!
LeMond used to come down to San Jose to visit the Gattos when he was a
junior racer. He was big even before he was big. Don't mention Jack
Disney -- it will piss-off Jobst. Disney and my fifth grade teacher,
Bob Tetzlaff, crashed him in a race ala the notorious Cinzano rider
scene from Breaking Away.
And remember Tim Mountford. He was a big champ in the 60s and then
owned that little bike shop that I never went to (Where was that?
Cupertino, Mountain View, I can't remember) -- I just remember seeing
this championship track bike hanging over the register and all these
palmares and like no one in the store. It was sort of depressing. --
Jay Beattie.
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Date: 23 Aug 2007 16:24:26
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
Jay Beattie wrote:
> LeMond used to come down to San Jose to visit the Gattos when he was a
> junior racer. He was big even before he was big. Don't mention Jack
> Disney -- it will piss-off Jobst. Disney and my fifth grade teacher,
> Bob Tetzlaff, crashed him in a race ala the notorious Cinzano rider
> scene from Breaking Away.
Jobst and I have something in common, then. I was in a scratch race at
the San Jose track, in maybe 72, and Tetzlaff came bashing through the
pack right in front of me, caught my front wheel, and I went down rather
hard. I blamed him for years for that, but really it was my lookout.
--
David L. Johnson
If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a
conclusion.
-- George Bernard Shaw
|
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Date: 23 Aug 2007 11:15:09
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On Aug 23, 7:56 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu > wrote:
> <carlfo...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:3napc39k88cnouijshrsgspnabtljo8dsk@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Aha!
>
> > Here's a graph that does show a very slight drop in total U.S. college
> > enrollment from 1975-1976:
>
> >http://i18.tinypic.com/4yq8k1j.jpg
>
> > Here's the bike sales graph again, with the crash from 1974-1975:
>
> >http://www.truewheelers.org/research/studies/aaa/images/fig01sm.gif
>
> > The years don't quite seem to match. It looks as if bike sales dropped
> > 50% a year _before_ college enrollment dropped less than 5%.
>
> > The raw numbers certainly don't match. College enrollment dropped less
> > than half a million students, while bike sales dropped about 7
> > million.
>
> > The enrollment is from figure 2 in this PDF:
>
> >http://www.ed.gov/PDFDocs/collegeweek.pdf
>
> > Cheers,
>
> > Carl Fogel
>
> Can't argue with data charts.
> As I said, I missed the bike boom crash, no biggie, but wondering how
> many of those who rode during the bike boom are still riding today?
>
> Back then I rode with no helmet (1967 to present) and still didn't ride with
> a helmet as of 2.5 weeks ago. I had a pretty bad bike crash on August 4th
> (Saturday morning), broke my collar bone, stitches in my forehead, and a lot
> of road rash. I didn't get hit by a car, or hit anything, just went down at
> 24 mph on a straight away. All I remember is the bike got wobbly, and the
> next thing I knew I was down. I was knocked out and woke-up in the
> ambulance on the way to Valley Medical Trauma Center.
>
> Had a scan done,but no brain damage. I'm still recovering from the broken
> collar bone, it usually takes 4-6 weeks, but I'm going to ride this coming
> Saturday. So 3 weeks, and I'm back on the bike only this time with a
> helmet. Dodged another bullet.
> -tom- Hide quoted text -
Tom, I really sorry to hear that you got hurt. VMC is a scary place to
be whether you are hurt or not. Get well soon. -- Jay Beattie.
|
| | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 11:29:09
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
"Jay Beattie" <jbeattie@lindsayhart.com > wrote in message
news:1187892909.808859.105610@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 23, 7:56 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>> <carlfo...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:3napc39k88cnouijshrsgspnabtljo8dsk@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Aha!
>>
>> > Here's a graph that does show a very slight drop in total U.S. college
>> > enrollment from 1975-1976:
>>
>> >http://i18.tinypic.com/4yq8k1j.jpg
>>
>> > Here's the bike sales graph again, with the crash from 1974-1975:
>>
>> >http://www.truewheelers.org/research/studies/aaa/images/fig01sm.gif
>>
>> > The years don't quite seem to match. It looks as if bike sales dropped
>> > 50% a year _before_ college enrollment dropped less than 5%.
>>
>> > The raw numbers certainly don't match. College enrollment dropped less
>> > than half a million students, while bike sales dropped about 7
>> > million.
>>
>> > The enrollment is from figure 2 in this PDF:
>>
>> >http://www.ed.gov/PDFDocs/collegeweek.pdf
>>
>> > Cheers,
>>
>> > Carl Fogel
>>
>> Can't argue with data charts.
>> As I said, I missed the bike boom crash, no biggie, but wondering how
>> many of those who rode during the bike boom are still riding today?
>>
>> Back then I rode with no helmet (1967 to present) and still didn't ride
>> with
>> a helmet as of 2.5 weeks ago. I had a pretty bad bike crash on August
>> 4th
>> (Saturday morning), broke my collar bone, stitches in my forehead, and a
>> lot
>> of road rash. I didn't get hit by a car, or hit anything, just went down
>> at
>> 24 mph on a straight away. All I remember is the bike got wobbly, and the
>> next thing I knew I was down. I was knocked out and woke-up in the
>> ambulance on the way to Valley Medical Trauma Center.
>>
>> Had a scan done,but no brain damage. I'm still recovering from the
>> broken
>> collar bone, it usually takes 4-6 weeks, but I'm going to ride this
>> coming
>> Saturday. So 3 weeks, and I'm back on the bike only this time with a
>> helmet. Dodged another bullet.
>> -tom- Hide quoted text -
>
> Tom, I really sorry to hear that you got hurt. VMC is a scary place to
> be whether you are hurt or not. Get well soon. -- Jay Beattie.
>
Thanks Jay,
I'm in good spirits despite the accident, but I do miss riding.
-tom
|
| |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 06:39:10
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On Aug 22, 4:27 pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
> It's surprisingly hard to find data on U.S. college enrollment, year
> by year, but what I've seen shows no drop, much less a crash.
>
> Graduation is a rough proxy for enrollment.
With all due respect: you wanted in (to college) until you got out (of
the draft). Then, in many cases, you got out (of college), degree be
damned.
As others have noted, at least in some cases, depending on your year
of birth, as well as day of birth, your deferment might last long
enough to get a degree (or at least pile up some hours) but still get
drafted, no matter how married with how many children you were, or get
your degree (or hours) and make it to the "other side"-- or, get that
high lottery number, and the return of your personal freedom.
(entering into the "only a thousand times, grandpa" zone):
The capriciousness (now why did that intentional misuse sound like an
Italian island vacation?) of local draft boards has been hinted at.
Mine moved heaven and earth (incl. some alleged shenannigans with
community population count, and personal vendetta) to make sure that
all, and especially some certain (by rumor) (substantiated) able-
bodied young patriotic men served their country in time of need.
Blowing off college? There once was something of a custom of working
for a summer or so, and Going To Europe with the proceeds. One of the
truly sad losses of the Viet Nam "war". Continuing with the phony
"shortages" (gas, sugar, coffee) of the early 70's, life was never
gonna be the same. Yeah, I think it's a plot <g > ("war's over!? how we
gonna screw them now?").
As has been mentioned, the context of cheap living was huge: (for a
1968 example) union electricians, at $5.25/hour wages, being able to
afford to buy a house and a PU truck to drive to work while the wife
stayed home and raised the kids. And professional people/business
owners living in the same neighborhoods (to some extent, at least) as
the peons. Gated community? Why would you need to live in a gated
community? Cowboys gave way to spies...
America: it could have been such a great country, you know?
Ca. '67-68, I bought a Varsity, that was available and I could afford.
"Ten on the stem", I guess. Paramount? a dream. Wouldn't have got is
sized anywhere near small enough, anyhow <g >. Later, a used Campy
Maserati, a few yearrs after the little Midwest city got its first
that I know of pro bike shop. Before that, a UO-8, complete with
patterned-sidewall steel rims, and a Capri SL/SP, partial Campy bike
along the way. I still have most of that one. Why didn't those
Stonglight 49 cranks break when my shoe rub was as deep as the flutes?
Ah, ignorance was bliss, but we didn't know it. Proof? Do these people
look worried?
http://www.geocities.com/sldbconsumer/1968/68ccpg09.html
Lessee: $79 approx. incl. 1-2% (!!!!) sales tax for that fenderless
Varsity... what's that in real value today?
One of the reasons the bike boom ended was that little shops couldn't
get bikes to sell. Something of a real shortage, if manipulated. A
frustration/attention span issue, and at least one shop I knew of
going OOB as a result.
--D-y, high school class of '67, "the summer of love" (not).
|
| | |
Date: 24 Aug 2007 20:05:10
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
dustoyevsky@mac.com ??? wrote:
> ...
> http://www.geocities.com/sldbconsumer/1968/68ccpg09.html
>
> Lessee: $79 approx. incl. 1-2% (!!!!) sales tax for that fenderless
> Varsity... what's that in real value today?
According to the CPI, about $480 in 2007 dollars.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 15:42:12
From:
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 06:39:10 -0700, "dustoyevsky@mac.com"
<dustoyevsky@mac.com > wrote:
>On Aug 22, 4:27 pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
>
>> It's surprisingly hard to find data on U.S. college enrollment, year
>> by year, but what I've seen shows no drop, much less a crash.
>>
>> Graduation is a rough proxy for enrollment.
>
>With all due respect: you wanted in (to college) until you got out (of
>the draft). Then, in many cases, you got out (of college), degree be
>damned.
[snip]
Dear D,
Sorry, but the graph of degrees awarded turns out to be a good match
for total enrollment.
U.S. college enrollment 1969-1997:
http://i18.tinypic.com/4yq8k1j.jpg
Source:
http://www.ed.gov/PDFDocs/collegeweek.pdf
U.S. degrees awarded: 1969-2003:
http://i12.tinypic.com/4y4wymg.jpg
Source:
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d05/tables/dt05_253.asp
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
|
| | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 12:44:03
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
<dustoyevsky@mac.com > wrote in message
news:1187876350.183246.152000@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 22, 4:27 pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > It's surprisingly hard to find data on U.S. college enrollment, year
> > by year, but what I've seen shows no drop, much less a crash.
> >
> > Graduation is a rough proxy for enrollment.
>
> With all due respect: you wanted in (to college) until you got out (of
> the draft). Then, in many cases, you got out (of college), degree be
> damned.
>
> As others have noted, at least in some cases, depending on your year
> of birth, as well as day of birth, your deferment might last long
> enough to get a degree (or at least pile up some hours) but still get
> drafted, no matter how married with how many children you were, or get
> your degree (or hours) and make it to the "other side"-- or, get that
> high lottery number, and the return of your personal freedom.
>
> (entering into the "only a thousand times, grandpa" zone):
>
> The capriciousness (now why did that intentional misuse sound like an
> Italian island vacation?) of local draft boards has been hinted at.
> Mine moved heaven and earth (incl. some alleged shenannigans with
> community population count, and personal vendetta) to make sure that
> all, and especially some certain (by rumor) (substantiated) able-
> bodied young patriotic men served their country in time of need.
>
> Blowing off college? There once was something of a custom of working
> for a summer or so, and Going To Europe with the proceeds. One of the
> truly sad losses of the Viet Nam "war". Continuing with the phony
> "shortages" (gas, sugar, coffee) of the early 70's, life was never
> gonna be the same. Yeah, I think it's a plot <g> ("war's over!? how we
> gonna screw them now?").
>
> As has been mentioned, the context of cheap living was huge: (for a
> 1968 example) union electricians, at $5.25/hour wages, being able to
> afford to buy a house and a PU truck to drive to work while the wife
> stayed home and raised the kids. And professional people/business
> owners living in the same neighborhoods (to some extent, at least) as
> the peons. Gated community? Why would you need to live in a gated
> community? Cowboys gave way to spies...
>
> America: it could have been such a great country, you know?
>
> Ca. '67-68, I bought a Varsity, that was available and I could afford.
> "Ten on the stem", I guess. Paramount? a dream. Wouldn't have got is
> sized anywhere near small enough, anyhow <g>. Later, a used Campy
> Maserati, a few yearrs after the little Midwest city got its first
> that I know of pro bike shop. Before that, a UO-8, complete with
> patterned-sidewall steel rims, and a Capri SL/SP, partial Campy bike
> along the way. I still have most of that one. Why didn't those
> Stonglight 49 cranks break when my shoe rub was as deep as the flutes?
> Ah, ignorance was bliss, but we didn't know it. Proof? Do these people
> look worried?
>
> http://www.geocities.com/sldbconsumer/1968/68ccpg09.html
>
> Lessee: $79 approx. incl. 1-2% (!!!!) sales tax for that fenderless
> Varsity... what's that in real value today?
>
> One of the reasons the bike boom ended was that little shops couldn't
> get bikes to sell. Something of a real shortage, if manipulated. A
> frustration/attention span issue, and at least one shop I knew of
> going OOB as a result.
> --D-y, high school class of '67, "the summer of love" (not).
>
I got drafted in 1964 while I was overseas - three years after I had
enlisted. I joined up when I was 17 1/2 and surrendered my draft card. I
guess that the Dept of Defense wasn't very good at notifying draft boards.
My dad had a hell of a time proving that I was already in the service. I
didn't find out until after the fact.
When I got out I had to register with my draft board again. I got a new
draft card - I was 4Z or something like that. Later I enjoyed burning it.
Chas.
|
| |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 05:28:51
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On Aug 22, 8:41 am, catzz66 <catz...@threeletterservice.com > wrote:
> Tom Nakashima wrote:
> > When Carl sent me the link to the bike boom crash of '74, I was fascinated
> > reading the data. For one I was living in the era and had it blow right by
> > me. ...
>
> I bought a $100 Murray that helped me strain my knee because the drive
> train didn't function very well. After that, I became a runner and then
> later a walker for the next 30 years. Glad I rediscovered smooth
> running skinny tired bikes several years ago. I have enjoyed it much
> more than I ever enjoyed running.
Another reformed runner!!
After 7 marathons and gooned up Achilles tendons, and after running
NYC marathon in 1985 with a broken toe...I bought my first 'real' bike
in 1985..a blue Ciocc(still have it!) I'll be forever grateful to
Stuart Moon at Oceanfront Bikes in Virgina beach for showiing me the
Italian jewell, after nearly buying a Cannondale. Haven't run a step
since.....unless chased.
|
| | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 19:13:11
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
> ...I bought my first 'real' bike in 1985..a blue Ciocc(still have it!)....
Are you poker faced when you ride it?
Was the argument on how to pronounce Ciöcc ever settled?
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | | |
Date: 25 Aug 2007 13:59:42
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
> Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
>> ...I bought my first 'real' bike in 1985..a blue Ciocc(still have
>> it!)....
Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
> Are you poker faced when you ride it?
> Was the argument on how to pronounce Ciöcc ever settled?
O Sergio, can you assist?
The importer said 'chyoch', rhymes with roach.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | | |
Date: 25 Aug 2007 13:34:14
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote in message
news:13d0uvrgqr12i88@corp.supernews.com...
> > Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
> >> ...I bought my first 'real' bike in 1985..a blue Ciocc(still have
> >> it!)....
>
> Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
> > Are you poker faced when you ride it?
> > Was the argument on how to pronounce Ciöcc ever settled?
>
> O Sergio, can you assist?
> The importer said 'chyoch', rhymes with roach.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
There is vulgar Italian slang term pronounced "chuuch".
I've never seen it spelled out. Probably because the guys who used the
term were probably illiterate.
It means a rat that runs around in circles faster and faster until it
crawls up it's backside and disappears. This refers to someone wiseguys
might not like.
The name Ciöcc always reminded me of chuuch.
Chas.
|
| |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 23:00:27
From:
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On Aug 22, 7:46 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu > wrote:
> When the Vietnam War was nearing the end 1974-1975, many college students
> returned to the normal life and result, the crash of the bicycle boom.
> I could be wrong about the theory, but it was just a thought.
> comments?
The date of the boom and bust corresponds nicely with the fuel crisis
that accompanied the Arab-Israeli wars of the '70s and subsequent
lifting of embargo and drop in price of oil. Unlike the situations of
the past, the coming oil crisis will be permanent. Could be good times
ahead for bike retailers, could also be worldwide economic collapse.
Hey we'll see.
Robert
|
| |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 20:16:31
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On Aug 22, 7:48 pm, "G.T." <getne...@dslextreme.com > wrote:
> "Jay Beattie" <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1187816590.974679.85880@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Dude, I lived at Togos!
>
> Togos has been around that long?
I went there for the first time in maybe 1973 -- when I was still in
high school (my sister was going to SJSU and lived about 100 yards
from the shop on Williams and Ninth). I thought they had been around
for four or five years by then. Maybe Tom knows. -- Jay Beattie.
|
| | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 06:31:54
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
"Jay Beattie" <jbeattie@lindsayhart.com > wrote in message
news:1187838991.618985.248220@q4g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 22, 7:48 pm, "G.T." <getne...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>> "Jay Beattie" <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1187816590.974679.85880@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > Dude, I lived at Togos!
>>
>> Togos has been around that long?
>
> I went there for the first time in maybe 1973 -- when I was still in
> high school (my sister was going to SJSU and lived about 100 yards
> from the shop on Williams and Ninth). I thought they had been around
> for four or five years by then. Maybe Tom knows. -- Jay Beattie.
>
Yes, the original Togo's was a wood shack right across from the SJSU
campus, opposite the new science building between 5th & 6th st. It started
I believe in 1973. Whoever thought a guy could make millions on making
sandwiches? I remember the long lines and broken front screen door from
people swinging it open, also squeaked like crazy. But the hot pastrami's
were killer...not good for racing cyclist either, but for $3.50
you got a sandwich, soft drink and chips. And since the sandwiches were so
big, one could save half for dinner. The small looked like what Togo's
considers a large today.
About seven students working like crazy making sandwiches around the
counter. Fresh produce flying everywhere. There were no scales to measure
how much meat to put in, and the students gave us generous overflowing
portions No choice of bread either. At noon, the lines stretched 1/4 block.
I ate there at least 3x a week. Other choices were McDonalds,
Jack-in-the-box, or Original Joes.....Don't get me started on Original Joes,
still one of the best Italian Food restaurants in the bay area.
btw, the original owner of Togo's lives a few miles away from me, huge home,
retired young. Everyone at SJSU at that time are kicking themselves for not
thinking of selling sandwiches near campus. The name Togo's is actually "To
Go"....very simple name.
-tom
|
| |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 18:46:18
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On Aug 22, 6:52 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com >
wrote:
> >> Schwinn had the Paramount, but for that money, one could buy an
> >> Italian Bianchi.
>
> > IM (retrospective)O, the Paramounts were underappreciated because they
> > were a domestic product and they bore the Schwinn name.
>
> Not 'round these parts. Paramounts were very much respected and appreciated.
> Lots of people raced them, and they were seen as an entirely different
> animal than the Varsity. Paramounts were definitely a cool bike to own.
>
Perhaps it was different in different regions? In eastern New England,
Paramounts didn't get much respect *in their price range*. The
thinking seemed to be that you could get something more better/more
interesting/more exotic for the money.
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 19:46:58
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
"Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote in message
news:1187833578.086700.102970@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 22, 6:52 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> wrote:
> > >> Schwinn had the Paramount, but for that money, one could buy an
> > >> Italian Bianchi.
> >
> > > IM (retrospective)O, the Paramounts were underappreciated because
they
> > > were a domestic product and they bore the Schwinn name.
> >
> > Not 'round these parts. Paramounts were very much respected and
appreciated.
> > Lots of people raced them, and they were seen as an entirely different
> > animal than the Varsity. Paramounts were definitely a cool bike to
own.
> >
>
> Perhaps it was different in different regions? In eastern New England,
> Paramounts didn't get much respect *in their price range*. The
> thinking seemed to be that you could get something more better/more
> interesting/more exotic for the money.
>
>
Paramounts were "respected" for their quality but bikes made with Nervex
lugs during that time period were considered old fashioned compared to the
long point lugs found on many of the hot Italian and British frames.
Maybe if Schwinn had offered un-chromed frames with long point lugs.....
Chas.
|
| | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 12:38:39
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
>>>>> Schwinn had the Paramount, but for that money, one could buy an
>>>>> Italian Bianchi.
>>>> IM (retrospective)O, the Paramounts were underappreciated because
> they
>>>> were a domestic product and they bore the Schwinn name.
>> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
>>> Not 'round these parts. Paramounts were very much respected and
> appreciated.
>>> Lots of people raced them, and they were seen as an entirely different
>>> animal than the Varsity. Paramounts were definitely a cool bike to
> own.
> "Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote
>> Perhaps it was different in different regions? In eastern New England,
>> Paramounts didn't get much respect *in their price range*. The
>> thinking seemed to be that you could get something more better/more
>> interesting/more exotic for the money.
* * Chas wrote:
> Paramounts were "respected" for their quality but bikes made with Nervex
> lugs during that time period were considered old fashioned compared to the
> long point lugs found on many of the hot Italian and British frames.
> Maybe if Schwinn had offered un-chromed frames with long point lugs.....
Tried that with the mid-70s Kenosha frames. Didn't help. Kostner Avenue
Paramounts were better quality frames IMHO than the Kenosha efforts.
Hence the Waterford facility which became Waterford Precision Cycles.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 19:15:54
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
Andrew Muzi mused:
>
> * * Chas wrote:
>> Paramounts were "respected" for their quality but bikes made with Nervex
>> lugs during that time period were considered old fashioned compared to
>> the
>> long point lugs found on many of the hot Italian and British frames.
>> Maybe if Schwinn had offered un-chromed frames with long point lugs.....
>
> Tried that with the mid-70s Kenosha frames. Didn't help. Kostner Avenue
> Paramounts were better quality frames IMHO than the Kenosha efforts.
> Hence the Waterford facility which became Waterford Precision Cycles.
Maybe there is a reason the town is known as "Kenowhere"?
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 12:23:41
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote in message
news:13crhfolpv1eu69@corp.supernews.com...
> >>>>> Schwinn had the Paramount, but for that money, one could buy an
> >>>>> Italian Bianchi.
> >>>> IM (retrospective)O, the Paramounts were underappreciated because
> > they
> >>>> were a domestic product and they bore the Schwinn name.
>
> >> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
> >>> Not 'round these parts. Paramounts were very much respected and
> > appreciated.
> >>> Lots of people raced them, and they were seen as an entirely
different
> >>> animal than the Varsity. Paramounts were definitely a cool bike to
> > own.
>
> > "Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote
> >> Perhaps it was different in different regions? In eastern New
England,
> >> Paramounts didn't get much respect *in their price range*. The
> >> thinking seemed to be that you could get something more better/more
> >> interesting/more exotic for the money.
>
> * * Chas wrote:
> > Paramounts were "respected" for their quality but bikes made with
Nervex
> > lugs during that time period were considered old fashioned compared to
the
> > long point lugs found on many of the hot Italian and British frames.
> > Maybe if Schwinn had offered un-chromed frames with long point
lugs.....
>
> Tried that with the mid-70s Kenosha frames. Didn't help. Kostner Avenue
> Paramounts were better quality frames IMHO than the Kenosha efforts.
> Hence the Waterford facility which became Waterford Precision Cycles.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
I really like the style of the later Paramount with the swoopy-doopy lugs
and paint and all.
Chas.
|
| |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 17:45:52
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On Aug 22, 5:11 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu >
wrote:
> Jay Beattie wrote:
> > Go Spartans! I prefer to call SJSU "the Harvard of San Jose." I was
> > there at basically the same time (a little later) and don't remember
> > the crash of the bike boom either because I, too, was just too stoned
> > to notice.
>
> > The deal with the Santa Clara Valley at or near that time is that it
> > was abuzz with bicycle activity -- crash or not. We had Phil Wood,
> > Mike Sinyard (who would start Specialized), Gary Klein,
>
> Gary Klein was still a student at MIT then. He graduated, I think, in
> '75. Maybe '74, but '75 is more likely.
>
That's why I said near that time -- I'm reminiscing about a period
from about '73 or so up until maybe '79. To be absolutely
historically accurate (which you really cannot be when getting misty-
eyed about a mythical past), most of these things occurred just after
the bicycle bust -- which is odd because there was supposed to be a
bust. Klein built a demo bike in '75 and it went commercial in '76,
and I do believe he sponsored the SJBC in 77-79 or thereabouts. All I
know is that I had his name on my jersey in that time frame -- and one
of those jerseys was a first generation lycra which was like wearing a
wet suit or a plastic trash bag. Blackburn started up in '75. I had
one of his racks in '76. Sinyard was selling Campy from his trailer in
'74 or 75, and Specialized started in earnest in, I think, about '78?
The '75-'78 period was really active, although at the same time,
Schwinn and others were starting to swirl down the toilet, but the
Japanese brands were going strong. I got my first Dura Ace in ''75. --
Jay Beattie.
|
| |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 15:27:08
From:
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 06:46:19 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
<tom@slac.stanford.edu > wrote:
>When Carl sent me the link to the bike boom crash of '74, I was fascinated
>reading the data. For one I was living in the era and had it blow right by
>me. And second I was living in the Santa Clara Valley which had a 48-49%
>increase, geographically the highest in bicycles sales. In the article, the
>bike
>boom might have been blamed on climate, but I had another theory:
>The Draft of the Vietnam War.
>I graduated high school in 1972 during the heart of the bike boom. In
>1970-1974 as I recall, all high school males had to enter the lottery draft
>of the Vietnam War. One of the ways to get out of the draft was to extend
>your education by attending college, which many hs students did. I was
>attending San Jose State Univ. at the time in the Santa Clara Valley.
>So where does the bike boom fit in?
>The surge of college students to get out of the war, and cheap
>transportation
>to get around campus. San Jose State was 7-long blocks long, and was just
>as wide. I can recall there were bicycles everywhere, seemed like everyone
>rode a road bike back then. I remember rolls and rolls of bicycles, stock
>piled horizontally in bike racks all over the campus. Talk about parking,
>can you imagine not being able to find a bicycle parking space?
>When the Vietnam War was nearing the end 1974-1975, many college students
>returned to the normal life and result, the crash of the bicycle boom.
>I could be wrong about the theory, but it was just a thought.
>comments?
>-tom
>
>Carls charts that he posted:
>
>The Chart of the bicycle boom and crash
>http://www.truewheelers.org/research/studies/aaa/images/fig01sm.gif
>
>The Article
>http://www.truewheelers.org/research/studies/aaa/02users.htm
Dear Tom,
It's surprisingly hard to find data on U.S. college enrollment, year
by year, but what I've seen shows no drop, much less a crash.
Graduation is a rough proxy for enrollment. Here's a quick and dirty
graph of total U.S. undergraduate and graduate degrees awarded from
1969 to 2003, year by year:
http://i12.tinypic.com/4y4wymg.jpg
Data came from downloading the spreadsheet and totalling figures for
this table:
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d05/tables/dt05_253.asp
I looked, but couldn't find San Jose State University enrollment
figures. I suspect that they kept increasing.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
|
| | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 07:44:08
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
<carlfogel@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:e4apc3l0455mn96cg0kalt9225j7fokn2u@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 06:46:19 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
> <tom@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
>>When Carl sent me the link to the bike boom crash of '74, I was fascinated
>>reading the data. For one I was living in the era and had it blow right
>>by
>>me. And second I was living in the Santa Clara Valley which had a 48-49%
>>increase, geographically the highest in bicycles sales. In the article,
>>the
>>bike
>>boom might have been blamed on climate, but I had another theory:
>>The Draft of the Vietnam War.
>>I graduated high school in 1972 during the heart of the bike boom. In
>>1970-1974 as I recall, all high school males had to enter the lottery
>>draft
>>of the Vietnam War. One of the ways to get out of the draft was to extend
>>your education by attending college, which many hs students did. I was
>>attending San Jose State Univ. at the time in the Santa Clara Valley.
>>So where does the bike boom fit in?
>>The surge of college students to get out of the war, and cheap
>>transportation
>>to get around campus. San Jose State was 7-long blocks long, and was just
>>as wide. I can recall there were bicycles everywhere, seemed like
>>everyone
>>rode a road bike back then. I remember rolls and rolls of bicycles, stock
>>piled horizontally in bike racks all over the campus. Talk about parking,
>>can you imagine not being able to find a bicycle parking space?
>>When the Vietnam War was nearing the end 1974-1975, many college students
>>returned to the normal life and result, the crash of the bicycle boom.
>>I could be wrong about the theory, but it was just a thought.
>>comments?
>>-tom
>>
>>Carls charts that he posted:
>>
>>The Chart of the bicycle boom and crash
>>http://www.truewheelers.org/research/studies/aaa/images/fig01sm.gif
>>
>>The Article
>>http://www.truewheelers.org/research/studies/aaa/02users.htm
>
> Dear Tom,
>
> It's surprisingly hard to find data on U.S. college enrollment, year
> by year, but what I've seen shows no drop, much less a crash.
>
> Graduation is a rough proxy for enrollment. Here's a quick and dirty
> graph of total U.S. undergraduate and graduate degrees awarded from
> 1969 to 2003, year by year:
>
> http://i12.tinypic.com/4y4wymg.jpg
>
> Data came from downloading the spreadsheet and totalling figures for
> this table:
>
> http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d05/tables/dt05_253.asp
>
> I looked, but couldn't find San Jose State University enrollment
> figures. I suspect that they kept increasing.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel
Yea, I couldn't find much data either.
SJSU has changed quite a bit since I went there in the early 70's.
-tom
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 15:47:36
From:
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:27:08 -0600, carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 06:46:19 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
><tom@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
>>When Carl sent me the link to the bike boom crash of '74, I was fascinated
>>reading the data. For one I was living in the era and had it blow right by
>>me. And second I was living in the Santa Clara Valley which had a 48-49%
>>increase, geographically the highest in bicycles sales. In the article, the
>>bike
>>boom might have been blamed on climate, but I had another theory:
>>The Draft of the Vietnam War.
>>I graduated high school in 1972 during the heart of the bike boom. In
>>1970-1974 as I recall, all high school males had to enter the lottery draft
>>of the Vietnam War. One of the ways to get out of the draft was to extend
>>your education by attending college, which many hs students did. I was
>>attending San Jose State Univ. at the time in the Santa Clara Valley.
>>So where does the bike boom fit in?
>>The surge of college students to get out of the war, and cheap
>>transportation
>>to get around campus. San Jose State was 7-long blocks long, and was just
>>as wide. I can recall there were bicycles everywhere, seemed like everyone
>>rode a road bike back then. I remember rolls and rolls of bicycles, stock
>>piled horizontally in bike racks all over the campus. Talk about parking,
>>can you imagine not being able to find a bicycle parking space?
>>When the Vietnam War was nearing the end 1974-1975, many college students
>>returned to the normal life and result, the crash of the bicycle boom.
>>I could be wrong about the theory, but it was just a thought.
>>comments?
>>-tom
>>
>>Carls charts that he posted:
>>
>>The Chart of the bicycle boom and crash
>>http://www.truewheelers.org/research/studies/aaa/images/fig01sm.gif
>>
>>The Article
>>http://www.truewheelers.org/research/studies/aaa/02users.htm
>
>Dear Tom,
>
>It's surprisingly hard to find data on U.S. college enrollment, year
>by year, but what I've seen shows no drop, much less a crash.
>
>Graduation is a rough proxy for enrollment. Here's a quick and dirty
>graph of total U.S. undergraduate and graduate degrees awarded from
>1969 to 2003, year by year:
>
>http://i12.tinypic.com/4y4wymg.jpg
>
>Data came from downloading the spreadsheet and totalling figures for
>this table:
>
>http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d05/tables/dt05_253.asp
>
>I looked, but couldn't find San Jose State University enrollment
>figures. I suspect that they kept increasing.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Carl Fogel
Aha!
Here's a graph that does show a very slight drop in total U.S. college
enrollment from 1975-1976:
http://i18.tinypic.com/4yq8k1j.jpg
Here's the bike sales graph again, with the crash from 1974-1975:
http://www.truewheelers.org/research/studies/aaa/images/fig01sm.gif
The years don't quite seem to match. It looks as if bike sales dropped
50% a year _before_ college enrollment dropped less than 5%.
The raw numbers certainly don't match. College enrollment dropped less
than half a million students, while bike sales dropped about 7
million.
The enrollment is from figure 2 in this PDF:
http://www.ed.gov/PDFDocs/collegeweek.pdf
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
|
| | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 07:56:38
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
<carlfogel@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:3napc39k88cnouijshrsgspnabtljo8dsk@4ax.com...
> Aha!
>
> Here's a graph that does show a very slight drop in total U.S. college
> enrollment from 1975-1976:
>
> http://i18.tinypic.com/4yq8k1j.jpg
>
> Here's the bike sales graph again, with the crash from 1974-1975:
>
> http://www.truewheelers.org/research/studies/aaa/images/fig01sm.gif
>
> The years don't quite seem to match. It looks as if bike sales dropped
> 50% a year _before_ college enrollment dropped less than 5%.
>
> The raw numbers certainly don't match. College enrollment dropped less
> than half a million students, while bike sales dropped about 7
> million.
>
> The enrollment is from figure 2 in this PDF:
>
> http://www.ed.gov/PDFDocs/collegeweek.pdf
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel
Can't argue with data charts.
As I said, I missed the bike boom crash, no biggie, but wondering how
many of those who rode during the bike boom are still riding today?
Back then I rode with no helmet (1967 to present) and still didn't ride with
a helmet as of 2.5 weeks ago. I had a pretty bad bike crash on August 4th
(Saturday morning), broke my collar bone, stitches in my forehead, and a lot
of road rash. I didn't get hit by a car, or hit anything, just went down at
24 mph on a straight away. All I remember is the bike got wobbly, and the
next thing I knew I was down. I was knocked out and woke-up in the
ambulance on the way to Valley Medical Trauma Center.
Had a scan done,but no brain damage. I'm still recovering from the broken
collar bone, it usually takes 4-6 weeks, but I'm going to ride this coming
Saturday. So 3 weeks, and I'm back on the bike only this time with a
helmet. Dodged another bullet.
-tom
|
| | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 18:58:26
From: Marcus Coles
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
Perhaps it was mostly a case of market saturation.
After all once you have ten speed gathering dust in the garage why would
you buy another?
For these folks there was no incentive to buy another bike until
mountain bikes became fashionable.
The mountain bike now gathers dust next to the ten speed, not far from
the his and hers electric assist comfort bikes with the sulfated batteries.
Marcus
|
| |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 14:03:10
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On Aug 22, 1:05 pm, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu > wrote:
> "Jay Beattie" <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1187808918.264424.154690@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Go Spartans! I prefer to call SJSU "the Harvard of San Jose." I was
> > there at basically the same time (a little later) and don't remember
> > the crash of the bike boom either because I, too, was just too stoned
> > to notice.
>
> Remember those long lines at the original Togo's across from campus? It's
> amazing nobody wore bicycle helmets back then, and there were fewer
> accidents...who didn't smoke back then?
>
>
>
> > The deal with the Santa Clara Valley at or near that time is that it
> > was abuzz with bicycle activity -- crash or not. We had Phil Wood,
> > Mike Sinyard (who would start Specialized), Gary Klein, Jim Blackburn
> > (in your class, I think), Avocet (PAB), Wheelsmith (later making pre-
> > fab wheels), Tom Ritchey, Keith Bontrager (in the 80s), later Kestrel
> > in Santa Cruz, Jim Gentes (Giro), and lots of other frame builders --
> > my buddy Dale Saso, Jeff Lyons, Eisentraut in Oakland and a bunch of
> > others whose names escape me. Tons of good shops. Klein was sponsoring
> > SJBC a little later in '76-77 I think. I remember thinking how freaky
> > those bikes looked. I think we all just ignored the crash. -- Jay
> > Beattie.
>
> You forgot one big name: Spence Wolf of the original Cupertino Bike
> Shop...RIP.
> I vaguely remember those people back then, but know them well now.
> I have an Eisentraut from the 70's. I've met Tom Ritchey, Gary Klein and I
> once raced to the top of Kennedy...he was cursing at me the whole time. I
> did some photography for Ric at Wheelsmith and still ride a frame he gave me
> in return for my services. Dale Saso had done some work on the frame Ric
> gave me. Do you remember DesMones Bike Shop near SJSU on 2nd St.? That's
> where I purchased my Italvega Record. Able the owner thought I was going to
> turn the Lay-Away into a 15 year mortgage. Terry Shaw who is now in Santa
> Clara had a shop on Williams St. near SJSU. In order to get there you had to
> ride through a street full of hookers.
> -tom
Dude, I lived at Togos! Spartan Market was across the street (where I
cashed my checks to buy the sandwiches). I bought my first ever NR
derailler at Desimones in '73 ($35). It was such a creepy, dimly lit
cavernous place. Even the new equipment looked old. I rode three
times a week with Terry (his shop ride out of the Williams St. shop --
it cut back to two nights when track season started). We did a killer
loop over country roads in the east foothills -- now closed down due
to the sprouting of gated communities. We called it the shop race
since it attracted some NorCal heavy hitters. I spent countless hours
at Dale's shop on Taylor Street. He was a good friend. I am getting
so mistey-eyed! I really should be doing my work. -- Jay Beattie.
P.S. (1) I raced then-emerging phenom Mike Engleman to the top of
Kennedy and beat him. I think we was looking at the flowers or
something. He might not have known we were racing. Anytime he wanted
to go fast, he dropped my like an anchor. (2) I student taught high
school in East SJ and saw one of my students hooking on 3rd and
Williams. No joke! Made class a little awkward.
|
| | |
Date: 10 Sep 2007 10:11:43
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
"Jay Beattie" <jbeattie@lindsayhart.com > wrote in message
news:1187816590.974679.85880@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> I rode three
> times a week with Terry (his shop ride out of the Williams St. shop --
> it cut back to two nights when track season started).
I dropped by Terry Shaw's shop this past Saturday coming home from a the
Old LaHonda Ride to say hello. He still the same....He has long time friend
Jerry working for him as the lone mechanic. There was a cyclist in front of
me getting in the door, his chain had come off the bike, and was dangling on
the rear cog and bottom bracket shell. He asked; "How much will it cost me
to have the chain put back on?" Jerry replied; "We won't know until we get
it on the bike stand!...Right Terry? as he laughed, and blurted out again;
"UNTIL WE GET IT ON THE BIKE STAND!"
Terry just smiled. So Terry wrote up a repair ticket, and told him it will
be ready in a few days. The customer left, then Jerry and Terry just
laughed.
That's not the first time I've seen this happen, I just played like I didn't
hear a thing...guess bike shops aren't doing that well lately.
-tom
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 19:48:05
From: G.T.
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
"Jay Beattie" <jbeattie@lindsayhart.com > wrote in message
news:1187816590.974679.85880@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >
> Dude, I lived at Togos!
Togos has been around that long?
> Spartan Market was across the street (where I
> cashed my checks to buy the sandwiches). I bought my first ever NR
> derailler at Desimones in '73 ($35). It was such a creepy, dimly lit
> cavernous place. Even the new equipment looked old. I rode three
> times a week with Terry (his shop ride out of the Williams St. shop --
> it cut back to two nights when track season started). We did a killer
> loop over country roads in the east foothills -- now closed down due
> to the sprouting of gated communities. We called it the shop race
> since it attracted some NorCal heavy hitters. I spent countless hours
> at Dale's shop on Taylor Street. He was a good friend. I am getting
> so mistey-eyed! I really should be doing my work. -- Jay Beattie.
>
Greg
--
Ticketmaster and Ticketweb suck, but everyone knows that:
http://ticketmastersucks.org
"Ya gotta stop riding the brakes,
ya gotta stop robbing the cradle" - Chris D
|
| |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 13:56:30
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
"Tom Nakashima" <tom@slac.stanford.edu > wrote in message
news:fahenc$a71$1@news.Stanford.EDU...
> When Carl sent me the link to the bike boom crash of '74, I was
fascinated
> reading the data. For one I was living in the era and had it blow right
by
> me. And second I was living in the Santa Clara Valley which had a
48-49%
> increase, geographically the highest in bicycles sales. In the article,
the
> bike
> boom might have been blamed on climate, but I had another theory:
> The Draft of the Vietnam War.
> I graduated high school in 1972 during the heart of the bike boom. In
> 1970-1974 as I recall, all high school males had to enter the lottery
draft
> of the Vietnam War. One of the ways to get out of the draft was to
extend
> your education by attending college, which many hs students did. I was
> attending San Jose State Univ. at the time in the Santa Clara Valley.
> So where does the bike boom fit in?
> The surge of college students to get out of the war, and cheap
> transportation
> to get around campus. San Jose State was 7-long blocks long, and was
just
> as wide. I can recall there were bicycles everywhere, seemed like
everyone
> rode a road bike back then. I remember rolls and rolls of bicycles,
stock
> piled horizontally in bike racks all over the campus. Talk about
parking,
> can you imagine not being able to find a bicycle parking space?
> When the Vietnam War was nearing the end 1974-1975, many college
students
> returned to the normal life and result, the crash of the bicycle boom.
> I could be wrong about the theory, but it was just a thought.
> comments?
> -tom
>
> Carls charts that he posted:
>
> The Chart of the bicycle boom and crash
> http://www.truewheelers.org/research/studies/aaa/images/fig01sm.gif
>
> The Article
> http://www.truewheelers.org/research/studies/aaa/02users.htm
>
>
Interesting theory but the draft ended in 1973. I enlisted in 1961 and
served for 5 years. A lot of the guys that I grew up with who would have
never gone to school went off to college to avoid the draft (early 60s pre
Vietnam era). When I came home in 1966 most of them were still in school.
One of my friends was able to stretch out his education until 1969. When
he graduated he was married with 2 kids but still got drafted and ended up
spending a year in Vietnam as an enlisted grunt.
I lived near SJSU for a while in 1969. I don't recall seeing many bikes in
the area during that time period so the boom must have hit there later.
I moved to NM and started back to school in the early 1970s. I sold my car
and bought a Gitane Gran Sport 10 speed so that I wouldn't be tempted to
take off to the mountains all the time.
There were 4 shops near the university: one sold Peugeots and Raleighs,
another Schwinns and Motobecanes, the 3rd Gitanes and Japanese makes. The
shop where I worked and later managed sold mainly mid range and better
quality European bikes from a couple of dozen makers.
During 1972 and 1973 the LBS couldn't assemble bikes fast enough to meet
the demand. A trailer load of bikes would come in and customers were
buying them as they were being unloaded. It was a feeding frenzy.
Bike parking was at a premium on campus. The Bike Boom crash never hit
Albuquerque that hard. 10-11 months of good weather plus the 1973-74 Arab
Oil Embargo kept a lot of people cycling.
Chas.
|
| |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 13:01:53
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On Aug 22, 11:23 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu > wrote:
> "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu> wrote in messagenews:8sOdnV2BhcGEw1HbnZ2dnUVZ_uiknZ2d@ptd.net...
>
>
>
> > It also misses the boat, in my opinion, regarding the distinction between
> > lightweight/other bikes. The increase in sales of lightweight bikes in
> > the 70s was not due to the gas "crisis" but rather to the entry of
> > higher-quality cheap lightweight bikes from Japan out-competing the David
> > L. Johnson
>
> As I recall back in the early through the mid 70's one of the bikes
> of choice besides the Nishiki, was the Peugeot U08. For
> just a tad more money than the Schwinn Varsity, one could purchase
> the lighter French Bike. I also recall Raleigh's to be a big hit back then.
>
> Schwinn had the Paramount, but for that money, one could buy an
> Italian Bianchi.
IM (retrospective)O, the Paramounts were underappreciated because they
were a domestic product and they bore the Schwinn name.
|
| | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 22:53:31
From: Donald Gillies
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
Ozark Bicycle <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > writes:
>IM (retrospective)O, the Paramounts were underappreciated because they
>were a domestic product and they bore the Schwinn name.
Really? Mine (P13-9 converted to P15 by the dealer) rides (25" frame
weighs about 26 lbs) like a tank. Maybe it's those 350 gram 27" schwinn
super record tires on 640 gram araya single-wall rims / total of about
3000 grams for both wheels ??
Mine came from the factory with the rear wheel dished about 5 mm to
one side. Wanting to keep it all-original, I have not yet corrected
the problem ...
Are you sure they were under-appreciated because they bore the Schwinn
name ??
- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 19:56:49
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>> Schwinn had the Paramount, but for that money, one could buy an
>> Italian Bianchi.
>
> IM (retrospective)O, the Paramounts were underappreciated because they
> were a domestic product and they bore the Schwinn name.
Not really. They were _the_ American racing bike, and many riders got
them just because they were American-made. They were no worse, but also
no better, than most Italian bikes in the same price range.
--
David L. Johnson
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by
little statesmen and philosophers and divines."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
| | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 17:15:37
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
> Not really. They were _the_ American racing bike, and many riders got
> them just because they were American-made. They were no worse, but also
> no better, than most Italian bikes in the same price range.
I'll make the case they were better than most. It's not that they were
extarordinary works of art, but they were something most Italian bikes
(especially moderately-priced ones) weren't- consistent. They also arrived
with good alignment.
I worked in bicycle retail at the time (so you can see I've pretty much done
so my entire life), and it was a game many of us played to "find the flaws"
in Italian frames. They'd have absolutely gorgeous lugwork almost
everywhere... except that one place where it seemed like somebody forgot to
finish their work. Sometimes it would be around the bottom bracket,
relatively hidden, and other times it would be sitting right out there in
front of you, on the head lug.
French frames were rarely nice to look at, aside from a few of the elite
high end bikes (whose names I'd give but I'd butcher the spellings so badly
that I'll pass), were universally not pretty to look at, yet somehow held
together. That's when you learned that large gaps under the lugs didn't mean
much (what was it that was said at the time, a 30% fill rate in the brazing
material gave you 90% of max strength?).
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
|
| | | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 00:35:19
From: Jim Flom
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com > wrote...
>
> French frames were rarely nice to look at, aside from a few of the elite
> high end bikes (whose names I'd give but I'd butcher the spellings so
> badly that I'll pass), were universally not pretty to look at, yet somehow
> held together. That's when you learned that large gaps under the lugs
> didn't mean much (what was it that was said at the time, a 30% fill rate
> in the brazing material gave you 90% of max strength?).
How were Gitanes? I used to ride all over on one of those until it was
stolen at the Bryn Mawr train station.
JF
|
| | | | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 19:41:44
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote...
>> French frames were rarely nice to look at, aside from a few of the elite
>> high end bikes (whose names I'd give but I'd butcher the spellings so
>> badly that I'll pass), were universally not pretty to look at, yet somehow
>> held together. That's when you learned that large gaps under the lugs
>> didn't mean much (what was it that was said at the time, a 30% fill rate
>> in the brazing material gave you 90% of max strength?).
Jim Flom wrote:
> How were Gitanes? I used to ride all over on one of those until it was
> stolen at the Bryn Mawr train station.
Mike gave a great description. (my Mercier was about 80% of a Gitane!)
Straight frame, clean threads, full braze flow and file marks polished
out are all revisionist developments! They surely did ride well despite
all that, eh?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 18:29:19
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote in message
news:13cpltpbredql89@corp.supernews.com...
> > "Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote...
> >> French frames were rarely nice to look at, aside from a few of the
elite
> >> high end bikes (whose names I'd give but I'd butcher the spellings so
> >> badly that I'll pass), were universally not pretty to look at, yet
somehow
> >> held together. That's when you learned that large gaps under the lugs
> >> didn't mean much (what was it that was said at the time, a 30% fill
rate
> >> in the brazing material gave you 90% of max strength?).
>
> Jim Flom wrote:
> > How were Gitanes? I used to ride all over on one of those until it
was
> > stolen at the Bryn Mawr train station.
>
> Mike gave a great description. (my Mercier was about 80% of a Gitane!)
> Straight frame, clean threads, full braze flow and file marks polished
> out are all revisionist developments! They surely did ride well despite
> all that, eh?
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Gitane used gravel in their pre-paint sand blasting and their lugs never
saw a file. The standard Gran Sport models used lighter tubing than many
of their competitors. I cut a few apart and the brazing was pretty good.
The forks were better than those on the Peugeot U08 bikes which were not
made of tubing at all but rolled over sheet metal with a brazed joint down
the middle of the back side.
I owned a bunch of Gitanes (we sold them) and was generally satisfied with
the ride. I'm currently riding a 1984 Super Corsa.
Chas.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 06:07:57
From: Tim McTeague
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
"* * Chas" <verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com > wrote in message
news:3vWdnbkKh8UXf1HbnZ2dnUVZ_oOnnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> Gitane used gravel in their pre-paint sand blasting and their lugs never
> saw a file. The standard Gran Sport models used lighter tubing than many
> of their competitors. I cut a few apart and the brazing was pretty good.
> The forks were better than those on the Peugeot U08 bikes which were not
> made of tubing at all but rolled over sheet metal with a brazed joint down
> the middle of the back side.
>
> I owned a bunch of Gitanes (we sold them) and was generally satisfied with
> the ride. I'm currently riding a 1984 Super Corsa.
>
> Chas.
>
My first 10 speed in 1973 was a Raleigh Gran Prix which was stolen and
replaced with a Gitane Interclub. I had wanted a Gitane Gran Sport at first
but the Raleigh was less expensive and my allowance did not go very far. I
now ride a Seven Axiom but still have fond memories of the two bikes that
started all this.
Tim McTeague
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 16:52:19
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
>> Schwinn had the Paramount, but for that money, one could buy an
>> Italian Bianchi.
>
> IM (retrospective)O, the Paramounts were underappreciated because they
> were a domestic product and they bore the Schwinn name.
Not 'round these parts. Paramounts were very much respected and appreciated.
Lots of people raced them, and they were seen as an entirely different
animal than the Varsity. Paramounts were definitely a cool bike to own.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote in message
news:1187812913.581639.132400@x40g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 22, 11:23 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>> "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu> wrote in
>> messagenews:8sOdnV2BhcGEw1HbnZ2dnUVZ_uiknZ2d@ptd.net...
>>
>>
>>
>> > It also misses the boat, in my opinion, regarding the distinction
>> > between
>> > lightweight/other bikes. The increase in sales of lightweight bikes in
>> > the 70s was not due to the gas "crisis" but rather to the entry of
>> > higher-quality cheap lightweight bikes from Japan out-competing the
>> > David
>> > L. Johnson
>>
>> As I recall back in the early through the mid 70's one of the bikes
>> of choice besides the Nishiki, was the Peugeot U08. For
>> just a tad more money than the Schwinn Varsity, one could purchase
>> the lighter French Bike. I also recall Raleigh's to be a big hit back
>> then.
>>
>> Schwinn had the Paramount, but for that money, one could buy an
>> Italian Bianchi.
>
> IM (retrospective)O, the Paramounts were underappreciated because they
> were a domestic product and they bore the Schwinn name.
>
>
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 13:12:29
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
"Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote in message
news:1187812913.581639.132400@x40g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 22, 11:23 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>> "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu> wrote in
>> messagenews:8sOdnV2BhcGEw1HbnZ2dnUVZ_uiknZ2d@ptd.net...
>>
>>
>>
>> > It also misses the boat, in my opinion, regarding the distinction
>> > between
>> > lightweight/other bikes. The increase in sales of lightweight bikes in
>> > the 70s was not due to the gas "crisis" but rather to the entry of
>> > higher-quality cheap lightweight bikes from Japan out-competing the
>> > David
>> > L. Johnson
>>
>> As I recall back in the early through the mid 70's one of the bikes
>> of choice besides the Nishiki, was the Peugeot U08. For
>> just a tad more money than the Schwinn Varsity, one could purchase
>> the lighter French Bike. I also recall Raleigh's to be a big hit back
>> then.
>>
>> Schwinn had the Paramount, but for that money, one could buy an
>> Italian Bianchi.
>
> IM (retrospective)O, the Paramounts were underappreciated because they
> were a domestic product and they bore the Schwinn name.
Unless you knew your bikes. Paramounts had a plain paint job, looked like
the lower end Schwinn 10 speed bikes, but they did have the Campagnolo
components. It wasn't until Eric Heiden the gold medalist ice skater who
made the Paramounts popular.
Most cyclist in our area preferred the Bob Jacksons, Raleigh Professionals,
Peugeot PX10's, Ron Coopers, and Albert Eisentraut's.
-tom
|
| |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 11:55:18
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On Aug 22, 6:46 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu > wrote:
> When Carl sent me the link to the bike boom crash of '74, I was fascinated
> reading the data. For one I was living in the era and had it blow right by
> me. And second I was living in the Santa Clara Valley which had a 48-49%
> increase, geographically the highest in bicycles sales. In the article, the
> bike
> boom might have been blamed on climate, but I had another theory:
> The Draft of the Vietnam War.
> I graduated high school in 1972 during the heart of the bike boom. In
> 1970-1974 as I recall, all high school males had to enter the lottery draft
> of the Vietnam War. One of the ways to get out of the draft was to extend
> your education by attending college, which many hs students did. I was
> attending San Jose State Univ. at the time in the Santa Clara Valley.
> So where does the bike boom fit in?
> The surge of college students to get out of the war, and cheap
> transportation
> to get around campus. San Jose State was 7-long blocks long, and was just
> as wide. I can recall there were bicycles everywhere, seemed like everyone
> rode a road bike back then. I remember rolls and rolls of bicycles, stock
> piled horizontally in bike racks all over the campus. Talk about parking,
> can you imagine not being able to find a bicycle parking space?
> When the Vietnam War was nearing the end 1974-1975, many college students
> returned to the normal life and result, the crash of the bicycle boom.
> I could be wrong about the theory, but it was just a thought.
> comments?
Go Spartans! I prefer to call SJSU "the Harvard of San Jose." I was
there at basically the same time (a little later) and don't remember
the crash of the bike boom either because I, too, was just too stoned
to notice.
The deal with the Santa Clara Valley at or near that time is that it
was abuzz with bicycle activity -- crash or not. We had Phil Wood,
Mike Sinyard (who would start Specialized), Gary Klein, Jim Blackburn
(in your class, I think), Avocet (PAB), Wheelsmith (later making pre-
fab wheels), Tom Ritchey, Keith Bontrager (in the 80s), later Kestrel
in Santa Cruz, Jim Gentes (Giro), and lots of other frame builders --
my buddy Dale Saso, Jeff Lyons, Eisentraut in Oakland and a bunch of
others whose names escape me. Tons of good shops. Klein was sponsoring
SJBC a little later in '76-77 I think. I remember thinking how freaky
those bikes looked. I think we all just ignored the crash. -- Jay
Beattie.
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 20:11:30
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
Jay Beattie wrote:
> Go Spartans! I prefer to call SJSU "the Harvard of San Jose." I was
> there at basically the same time (a little later) and don't remember
> the crash of the bike boom either because I, too, was just too stoned
> to notice.
>
> The deal with the Santa Clara Valley at or near that time is that it
> was abuzz with bicycle activity -- crash or not. We had Phil Wood,
> Mike Sinyard (who would start Specialized), Gary Klein,
Gary Klein was still a student at MIT then. He graduated, I think, in
'75. Maybe '74, but '75 is more likely.
--
David L. Johnson
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by
little statesmen and philosophers and divines."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 16:57:05
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
> The deal with the Santa Clara Valley at or near that time is that it
> was abuzz with bicycle activity -- crash or not. We had Phil Wood,
> Mike Sinyard (who would start Specialized), Gary Klein, Jim Blackburn
> (in your class, I think), Avocet (PAB), Wheelsmith (later making pre-
> fab wheels), Tom Ritchey, Keith Bontrager (in the 80s), later Kestrel
> in Santa Cruz, Jim Gentes (Giro), and lots of other frame builders --
> my buddy Dale Saso, Jeff Lyons, Eisentraut in Oakland and a bunch of
> others whose names escape me. Tons of good shops. Klein was sponsoring
> SJBC a little later in '76-77 I think. I remember thinking how freaky
> those bikes looked. I think we all just ignored the crash. -- Jay
> Beattie.
You've left out "Missing Link" when it was in lower Sproul Plaza on the
Berkeley campus. Quite a bit of esoteric stuff at the time, including a full
line of Zeus... the stuff you raced with if you wanted to claim to be too
cool to ride Campy (when the reality was that you couldn't afford Campy).
Regular bike rides (from Redwood City) were to Phil Wood's place in Los
Gatos and Spence Wolfe in Cupertino. Those *were* the days.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
|
| | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 23:34:04
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> You've left out "Missing Link" when it was in lower Sproul Plaza on the
> Berkeley campus. Quite a bit of esoteric stuff at the time, including a full
> line of Zeus... the stuff you raced with if you wanted to claim to be too
> cool to ride Campy (when the reality was that you couldn't afford Campy).
I bought my track bike (well, the frame) there. Still have it --- in
fact, I still have the receipt. My memory said '71, but the receipt
says '72.
--
David L. Johnson
The motor car reflects our standard of living and gauges the speed of
our present life. It long ago ran down Simple Living, and never halted
to inquire about the prostrate figure which fell as its victim.
-- Warren G. Harding
|
| | | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 16:02:52
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> You've left out "Missing Link" when it was in lower Sproul Plaza on
>> the Berkeley campus. Quite a bit of esoteric stuff at the time,
>> including a full line of Zeus... the stuff you raced with if you
>> wanted to claim to be too cool to ride Campy (when the reality was
>> that you couldn't afford Campy).
David L. Johnson wrote:
> I bought my track bike (well, the frame) there. Still have it --- in
> fact, I still have the receipt. My memory said '71, but the receipt
> says '72.
That was Max Shepard, right? See him lately?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 21:24:48
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
A Muzi wrote:
> David L. Johnson wrote:
>> I bought my track bike (well, the frame) there. Still have it --- in
>> fact, I still have the receipt. My memory said '71, but the receipt
>> says '72.
>
> That was Max Shepard, right? See him lately?
>
Now you've hit the limit of my memory. I don't recall the name of the
guy who ran the place -- maybe it's on the receipt, but that is for some
strange reason in my safety deposit box.
--
David L. Johnson
Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and Excellence.
|
| | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 17:27:41
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com > wrote in message
news:M34zi.11142$4w7.3080@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
> > The deal with the Santa Clara Valley at or near that time is that it
> > was abuzz with bicycle activity -- crash or not. We had Phil Wood,
> > Mike Sinyard (who would start Specialized), Gary Klein, Jim Blackburn
> > (in your class, I think), Avocet (PAB), Wheelsmith (later making pre-
> > fab wheels), Tom Ritchey, Keith Bontrager (in the 80s), later Kestrel
> > in Santa Cruz, Jim Gentes (Giro), and lots of other frame builders --
> > my buddy Dale Saso, Jeff Lyons, Eisentraut in Oakland and a bunch of
> > others whose names escape me. Tons of good shops. Klein was sponsoring
> > SJBC a little later in '76-77 I think. I remember thinking how freaky
> > those bikes looked. I think we all just ignored the crash. -- Jay
> > Beattie.
>
> You've left out "Missing Link" when it was in lower Sproul Plaza on the
> Berkeley campus. Quite a bit of esoteric stuff at the time, including a
full
> line of Zeus... the stuff you raced with if you wanted to claim to be
too
> cool to ride Campy (when the reality was that you couldn't afford
Campy).
>
> Regular bike rides (from Redwood City) were to Phil Wood's place in Los
> Gatos and Spence Wolfe in Cupertino. Those *were* the days.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
Peter Rich's Velo-Sport in Biserkly too.
Chas.
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 13:05:03
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
"Jay Beattie" <jbeattie@lindsayhart.com > wrote in message
news:1187808918.264424.154690@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> Go Spartans! I prefer to call SJSU "the Harvard of San Jose." I was
> there at basically the same time (a little later) and don't remember
> the crash of the bike boom either because I, too, was just too stoned
> to notice.
Remember those long lines at the original Togo's across from campus? It's
amazing nobody wore bicycle helmets back then, and there were fewer
accidents...who didn't smoke back then?
>
> The deal with the Santa Clara Valley at or near that time is that it
> was abuzz with bicycle activity -- crash or not. We had Phil Wood,
> Mike Sinyard (who would start Specialized), Gary Klein, Jim Blackburn
> (in your class, I think), Avocet (PAB), Wheelsmith (later making pre-
> fab wheels), Tom Ritchey, Keith Bontrager (in the 80s), later Kestrel
> in Santa Cruz, Jim Gentes (Giro), and lots of other frame builders --
> my buddy Dale Saso, Jeff Lyons, Eisentraut in Oakland and a bunch of
> others whose names escape me. Tons of good shops. Klein was sponsoring
> SJBC a little later in '76-77 I think. I remember thinking how freaky
> those bikes looked. I think we all just ignored the crash. -- Jay
> Beattie.
>
You forgot one big name: Spence Wolf of the original Cupertino Bike
Shop...RIP.
I vaguely remember those people back then, but know them well now.
I have an Eisentraut from the 70's. I've met Tom Ritchey, Gary Klein and I
once raced to the top of Kennedy...he was cursing at me the whole time. I
did some photography for Ric at Wheelsmith and still ride a frame he gave me
in return for my services. Dale Saso had done some work on the frame Ric
gave me. Do you remember DesMones Bike Shop near SJSU on 2nd St.? That's
where I purchased my Italvega Record. Able the owner thought I was going to
turn the Lay-Away into a 15 year mortgage. Terry Shaw who is now in Santa
Clara had a shop on Williams St. near SJSU. In order to get there you had to
ride through a street full of hookers.
-tom
|
| |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 11:24:14
From: Donald Gillies
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
Any increase in college campus enrollment in the USA was likely more
due to the 1945-1960 baby boomers (births peaked in ~1950, college
years for those kids would be 1968-1972, mostly) than due to the
vietnam war.
Every time the boomers age 5 years, the country changes.
The economy struggled to find jobs for these kids from 1975-1980.
guess what? people born in the 30's all got to be managers !!
The housing market went hyperbolic from 1975-1985.
In the past 10 years, vacation home prices have gone ballistic.
Everyone is expecting geriatric products and services industries to go
hyperbolic over the next 10-20 years.
In the mid 1960's an apartment in New York's Greenwich Village could
be rented using the part-time salary of a bookstore employee. Once
the boomers graduated, that kind of "easy living" was gone forever ...
The thing about the silent generation - the ones who fought WWII - is
that the average family had 4 kids. This instantly put the parents
atop a financial pyramid scheme, and for the ones that survived WWII,
it has been easy sailing all of their lives, if they just reached for
the opportunity ... all they had to do was to buy a house and save
some money in the stock market; they enjoyed financial success like no
other generation in history ...
- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 22:58:40
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
Donald Gillies wrote:
> Any increase in college campus enrollment in the USA was likely more
> due to the 1945-1960 baby boomers (births peaked in ~1950, college
> years for those kids would be 1968-1972, mostly) than due to the
> vietnam war.
>
> Every time the boomers age 5 years, the country changes.
>
> The economy struggled to find jobs for these kids from 1975-1980.
> guess what? people born in the 30's all got to be managers !!
>
> The housing market went hyperbolic from 1975-1985.
>
> In the past 10 years, vacation home prices have gone ballistic.
>
> Everyone is expecting geriatric products and services industries to go
> hyperbolic over the next 10-20 years.
>
> In the mid 1960's an apartment in New York's Greenwich Village could
> be rented using the part-time salary of a bookstore employee. Once
> the boomers graduated, that kind of "easy living" was gone forever ...
>
> The thing about the silent generation - the ones who fought WWII - is
> that the average family had 4 kids. This instantly put the parents
> atop a financial pyramid scheme, and for the ones that survived WWII,
> it has been easy sailing all of their lives, if they just reached for
> the opportunity ... all they had to do was to buy a house and save
> some money in the stock market; they enjoyed financial success like no
> other generation in history ...
And screwed up things for the rest of us - poor wages (compared to
theirs) and overpopulation.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 11:10:35
From:
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On Aug 22, 12:03 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu >
wrote:
> The article seems to just ignore both of those effects, the war/draft
> incentive to stay in school and the large numbers of late-adolescent
> boomers.
I think the baby boomers were probably a prime factor, along with the
hippie movement which made nonconformism cool, allowing people to go
out and buy bicycles without the stigma that a bike might have had to
a young adult in the early sixties. As for the draft theory, the first
thing someone would need to show is flat or dropping enrollment at the
time, but that might have been there anyway as the last of the boomers
entered college. The bike boom bust and dropping enrollment could both
be functions of the same factor. Besides, if I'm not mistaken, the
draft lottery, begun in '69, ended student deferments, so the draft
theory is out of sync with history.
> It also misses the boat, in my opinion, regarding the distinction
> between lightweight/other bikes. The increase in sales of lightweight
> bikes in the 70s was not due to the gas "crisis" but rather to the entry
> of higher-quality cheap lightweight bikes from Japan out-competing the
> venerable, massive, Schwinn Varsity. Prior to that time, the only
> "lightweight" bikes available were more expensive, exotic European
> racing bikes with such things as tubular tires.
In the early 70s there were plenty of semi-affordable English and
French lightweight bikes with 27" tires, cottered cranks and steel
rims, weighing in at just under 30lbs. From everything I saw the
Japanese bikes did not really start to make a dent in the market until
after the boom began to decline. Surprisingly, there is essentially an
inverse correlation between the boom and oil prices. The boom peaked
in '73; the Yom Kippur War was the catalyst for the OPEC embargo in
late '73 that began the big price increases. It's not at all clear
that bike usage dropped off, though, just bike sales, so it may be
arguable about whether the boom really ended when sales slowed.
l
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 20:05:46
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
SocSecTrainWreck@earthlink.net wrote:
> be functions of the same factor. Besides, if I'm not mistaken, the
> draft lottery, begun in '69, ended student deferments, so the draft
> theory is out of sync with history.
Sorry, you are mistaken. Once you got your lottery number (mine was 97)
you could still get the 2S deferment until you finished college.
Shortly before the lottery came about, though, they ended graduate
school (and marriage, I think) deferments. But my draft board gave me
the 2S until my senior year ('73), and then they put me in when they
knew I would beat the lottery.
> In the early 70s there were plenty of semi-affordable English and
> French lightweight bikes with 27" tires, cottered cranks and steel
> rims, weighing in at just under 30lbs.
Actually, the bikes you describe were available in the '60s. By the
'70s most non-junk bikes had cotterless cranks. 30lbs was also at the
fat end of "lightweight" -- even then.
> From everything I saw the
> Japanese bikes did not really start to make a dent in the market until
> after the boom began to decline.
Well, that was also when the percentage of "lightweight" bikes really
climbed, as well. But I think the Japanese entry into the market, and
the not coincidental increase in "lightweight" bikes came about before
the downturn in '75.
Surprisingly, there is essentially an
> inverse correlation between the boom and oil prices. The boom peaked
> in '73; the Yom Kippur War was the catalyst for the OPEC embargo in
> late '73 that began the big price increases.
That's true as well. I didn't catch that fallacy in the article, but
you are right. The first oil crunch happened in the summer of '73 (I
recall, since I moved across the country that year, and was stunned as
the gas prices climbed as I moved East).
--
David L. Johnson
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by
little statesmen and philosophers and divines."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
| | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 19:36:10
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
-snip-
> SocSecTrainWreck@earthlink.net wrote:
>> In the early 70s there were plenty of semi-affordable English and
>> French lightweight bikes with 27" tires, cottered cranks and steel
>> rims, weighing in at just under 30lbs.
David L. Johnson wrote:
> Actually, the bikes you describe were available in the '60s. By the
> '70s most non-junk bikes had cotterless cranks. 30lbs was also at the
> fat end of "lightweight" -- even then.
I believe 1975 was the first year entry level '10 speed' bikes
overwhelmingly switched to aluminum cranks. Through 1974, steel cranks
were 'standard' and a $100~$125 bike with aluminum cranks was uncommon
and notable.
("super bikes" or whatever the cognoscenti called them in your area had
aluminum cranks of course)
Yes, 30lb was at the margin, above which they were hard to sell. 28lb
and less mostly.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 17:23:15
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
"David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh.edu > wrote in message
news:N5GdnfpzCbm0UlHbnZ2dnUVZ_jqdnZ2d@ptd.net...
> SocSecTrainWreck@earthlink.net wrote:
>
> > be functions of the same factor. Besides, if I'm not mistaken, the
> > draft lottery, begun in '69, ended student deferments, so the draft
> > theory is out of sync with history.
>
> Sorry, you are mistaken. Once you got your lottery number (mine was 97)
> you could still get the 2S deferment until you finished college.
> Shortly before the lottery came about, though, they ended graduate
> school (and marriage, I think) deferments. But my draft board gave me
> the 2S until my senior year ('73), and then they put me in when they
> knew I would beat the lottery.
>
> > In the early 70s there were plenty of semi-affordable English and
> > French lightweight bikes with 27" tires, cottered cranks and steel
> > rims, weighing in at just under 30lbs.
>
> Actually, the bikes you describe were available in the '60s. By the
> '70s most non-junk bikes had cotterless cranks. 30lbs was also at the
> fat end of "lightweight" -- even then.
>
> > From everything I saw the
> > Japanese bikes did not really start to make a dent in the market until
> > after the boom began to decline.
>
> Well, that was also when the percentage of "lightweight" bikes really
> climbed, as well. But I think the Japanese entry into the market, and
> the not coincidental increase in "lightweight" bikes came about before
> the downturn in '75.
>
> Surprisingly, there is essentially an
> > inverse correlation between the boom and oil prices. The boom peaked
> > in '73; the Yom Kippur War was the catalyst for the OPEC embargo in
> > late '73 that began the big price increases.
>
> That's true as well. I didn't catch that fallacy in the article, but
> you are right. The first oil crunch happened in the summer of '73 (I
> recall, since I moved across the country that year, and was stunned as
> the gas prices climbed as I moved East).
>
> David L. Johnson
>
Alloy cotterless cranks didn't start appearing on lower end bikes until
around 1974 and then it was initially on "club racer" models like the
Gitane Interclub.
The first cheap alloy cranks were the "melt forged" (read plain old cast
aluminum) Sugino Maxi and SR brands. These had the chainrings swaged on to
the right hand crank arm.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sugino-Maxi-Alloy-Double-Crank-52-39-170mm-RH-Only_W0QQitemZ170064833853QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
Some of the cheaper swaged crank sets had alloy crank arms with steel
chainrings. These 2 piece swaged cranks were sold on cheap bikes up
through the end of the 1970s.
Chas.
|
| | | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 23:32:19
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
* * Chas wrote:
> Alloy cotterless cranks didn't start appearing on lower end bikes until
> around 1974 and then it was initially on "club racer" models like the
> Gitane Interclub.
TA and Stronglight (sp?) cranks appeared on a lot of bikes I would call
mid-range in the early 70s. I guess it depends upon what you call
"lower end".
--
David L. Johnson
The motor car reflects our standard of living and gauges the speed of
our present life. It long ago ran down Simple Living, and never halted
to inquire about the prostrate figure which fell as its victim.
-- Warren G. Harding
|
| | | | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 23:16:41
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
"David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh.edu > wrote in message
news:YdadncfBytAMYlHbnZ2dnUVZ_u-unZ2d@ptd.net...
> * * Chas wrote:
>
> > Alloy cotterless cranks didn't start appearing on lower end bikes
until
> > around 1974 and then it was initially on "club racer" models like the
> > Gitane Interclub.
>
> TA and Stronglight (sp?) cranks appeared on a lot of bikes I would call
> mid-range in the early 70s. I guess it depends upon what you call
> "lower end".
>
> --
>
> David L. Johnson
Lower end: Bikes with standard carbon steel gas pipe frames.
I can't think of a bike from the 70s equipped with a TA or Stronglight
crank that didn't have at least 3 main tubes made of Reynolds 531 or
French Durifort tubing.
In any case, the French cranks were made from forged aluminum not "melt
forged" castings and the chainrings were bolted on not swaged.
Chas.
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 16:49:08
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
> Besides, if I'm not mistaken, the
> draft lottery, begun in '69, ended student deferments, so the draft
> theory is out of sync with history.
This is correct; once the lottery system was instituted, you could no longer
get out of service via college deferment as you could in the past. Instead
you had to either know somebody or enroll in the coast or national guard.
How times have changed; enrolling in the national guard is no longer a
ticket out of combat.
I think the bike boom was largely a result of three factors-
#1: The baby boomers coming of age. Lots and lots and lots of 12-21 year
olds in the market all of a sudden.
#2: The bike was seen as both mainstream transportation (for kids) and
counter-cultural at the same time.
#3: Bob Keeshan. "Schwinn bikes are Best!"
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
|
| | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 20:08:09
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> Besides, if I'm not mistaken, the
>> draft lottery, begun in '69, ended student deferments, so the draft
>> theory is out of sync with history.
>
> This is correct; once the lottery system was instituted, you could no longer
> get out of service via college deferment as you could in the past.
No, it is not correct. I was there. I got my lottery number in 1970
with everyone else, and kept my 2S until '73.
--
David L. Johnson
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by
little statesmen and philosophers and divines."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
| | | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 17:31:23
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
>>> Besides, if I'm not mistaken, the
>>> draft lottery, begun in '69, ended student deferments, so the draft
>>> theory is out of sync with history.
>>
>> This is correct; once the lottery system was instituted, you could no
>> longer get out of service via college deferment as you could in the past.
>
> No, it is not correct. I was there. I got my lottery number in 1970 with
> everyone else, and kept my 2S until '73.
You were fortunate. Student deferments, in general, were ended on Dec 1,
1969. That was the point of the draft; there was a great deal of resentment
from those less-fortunate (not able to get into college due to funds or
qualifications).
So what were your numbers? I was part of only one war-time draft, and at
335, wasn't going to get picked.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
|
| | | | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 23:04:59
From: Donald Gillies
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
I was a bike purchaser during the bike boom. Got my used Raleigh
Grand Prix in 1973, january, it was 6 months old, a pea-green color
with black panels and Raleigh in gold script ...
First thing that went was the shifters. The SIMPLEX shifters snapped.
So i bought a set of used campagnolo shifters, $12 (new they were $18+).
Second thing that went was the derailleur, when i threw it into the
spokes. Rather than pay $4.95 for another SIMPLEX prestige, i got a
Suntour VGT, the bee's knees in touring derailleur - better than
anything else made, $12.95.
Third thing to go was that new Suntour VGT when i threw it into the
spokes again. Can you tell that me, a 13-year old, did all his own
maintenance? Oh yeah, I had removed the pie-plate spoke protector and
all the reflectors, those were for wimps! Ok, another $12.95 for
another VGT.
Fourth thing to go was the crankset. Eugene Sloan's "Complete Book of
Bicycling" instructed me to take apart my NERVAR cottered crank to
re-grease the bottom bracket. Trouble is, the cotters never went back
completely. Ok, go to the bikeshop and buy more cotters. Still,
after 100 miles the crank was loose again. Last purchase was a Sugino
MAXY crankset for $29.95 including bottom bracket. The raleigh had 26
tpi threads but the sugino axle worked just great in the raleigh cups.
I was done upgrading in about 1977, when I got my 2nd bike, a SEKAI
2500 ... never upgraded, parts match was perfect on that bike.
- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA
|
| | | | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 22:14:24
From: John Thompson
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On 2007-08-23, Mike Jacoubowsky <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com > wrote:
> So what were your numbers? I was part of only one war-time draft, and at
> 335, wasn't going to get picked.
I was "54" but the draft ended less than a year after I turned 18.
--
John (john@os2.dhs.org)
|
| | | | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 23:26:33
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> So what were your numbers? I was part of only one war-time draft, and at
> 335, wasn't going to get picked.
Once you got one, that was it. Mine was 97. That was the largest in my
group of friends, and none of the 5 of us got drafted due to the fact we
all stayed in school until '73.
--
David L. Johnson
The motor car reflects our standard of living and gauges the speed of
our present life. It long ago ran down Simple Living, and never halted
to inquire about the prostrate figure which fell as its victim.
-- Warren G. Harding
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 18:13:12
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
> "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu> wrote:
>> The article seems to just ignore both of those effects, the war/draft
>> incentive to stay in school and the large numbers of late-adolescent
>> boomers.
SocSecTrainWreck@earthlink.net wrote:
> I think the baby boomers were probably a prime factor, along with the
> hippie movement which made nonconformism cool, allowing people to go
> out and buy bicycles without the stigma that a bike might have had to
> a young adult in the early sixties. As for the draft theory, the first
> thing someone would need to show is flat or dropping enrollment at the
> time, but that might have been there anyway as the last of the boomers
> entered college. The bike boom bust and dropping enrollment could both
> be functions of the same factor. Besides, if I'm not mistaken, the
> draft lottery, begun in '69, ended student deferments, so the draft
> theory is out of sync with history.
> "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu> wrote:
>> It also misses the boat, in my opinion, regarding the distinction
>> between lightweight/other bikes. The increase in sales of lightweight
>> bikes in the 70s was not due to the gas "crisis" but rather to the entry
>> of higher-quality cheap lightweight bikes from Japan out-competing the
>> venerable, massive, Schwinn Varsity. Prior to that time, the only
>> "lightweight" bikes available were more expensive, exotic European
>> racing bikes with such things as tubular tires.
SocSecTrainWreck@earthlink.net wrote:
> In the early 70s there were plenty of semi-affordable English and
> French lightweight bikes with 27" tires, cottered cranks and steel
> rims, weighing in at just under 30lbs. From everything I saw the
> Japanese bikes did not really start to make a dent in the market until
> after the boom began to decline. Surprisingly, there is essentially an
> inverse correlation between the boom and oil prices. The boom peaked
> in '73; the Yom Kippur War was the catalyst for the OPEC embargo in
> late '73 that began the big price increases. It's not at all clear
> that bike usage dropped off, though, just bike sales, so it may be
> arguable about whether the boom really ended when sales slowed.
SocSecTrainWreck is right. Japanese bikes were of better quality, lower
priced and innovatve in some important ways but didn't sell in
significant numbers against European models until after the crash.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 11:47:21
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
I also remember the environmental craze kicked in the early 70's as Earth
Day was celebrated to help boost the bicycle spike. People were becoming
more health conscious. Jogging and workout suits were in fashion. It's
possible "Disco" could have caused the bike boom crash.
The popularity of disco started in 1975. Difficult to ride in those platform
shoes and polyester bellbottoms.
-tom
|
| | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 18:16:40
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
Tom Nakashima wrote:
> I also remember the environmental craze kicked in the early 70's as Earth
> Day was celebrated to help boost the bicycle spike. People were becoming
> more health conscious. Jogging and workout suits were in fashion. It's
> possible "Disco" could have caused the bike boom crash.
> The popularity of disco started in 1975. Difficult to ride in those platform
> shoes and polyester bellbottoms.
No matter what evil you ascribe to disco, I'd believe it.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 21:49:09
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
In article <13cpgu84satsc61@corp.supernews.com >,
A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> Tom Nakashima wrote:
> > I also remember the environmental craze kicked in the early 70's as
> > Earth Day was celebrated to help boost the bicycle spike. People
> > were becoming more health conscious. Jogging and workout suits
> > were in fashion. It's possible "Disco" could have caused the bike
> > boom crash. The popularity of disco started in 1975. Difficult to
> > ride in those platform shoes and polyester bellbottoms.
>
> No matter what evil you ascribe to disco, I'd believe it.
Ah you're taking me back to the days of Steve Dahl and Teenage Radiation
with their parody quasi-hits "Do You Think I'm Disco" (a shot at "Do Ya
Think I'm Sexy" by Rod Stewart), "Skylab" (to the tune of "Shattered")
and "Ayatollah" (a topical takeoff on "My Sharona"). The rallying cry
was "disco sucks!" And the Insane Coho Lips Breakfast Club.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Dahl
Jeez, I am getting old.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 23:34:50
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
In article
<timmcn-DD02CA.21490922082007@news.iphouse.com >,
Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net > wrote:
> In article <13cpgu84satsc61@corp.supernews.com>,
> A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > Tom Nakashima wrote:
> > > I also remember the environmental craze kicked in the early 70's as
> > > Earth Day was celebrated to help boost the bicycle spike. People
> > > were becoming more health conscious. Jogging and workout suits
> > > were in fashion. It's possible "Disco" could have caused the bike
> > > boom crash. The popularity of disco started in 1975. Difficult to
> > > ride in those platform shoes and polyester bellbottoms.
> >
> > No matter what evil you ascribe to disco, I'd believe it.
>
> Ah you're taking me back to the days of Steve Dahl and Teenage Radiation
> with their parody quasi-hits "Do You Think I'm Disco" (a shot at "Do Ya
> Think I'm Sexy" by Rod Stewart), "Skylab" (to the tune of "Shattered")
> and "Ayatollah" (a topical takeoff on "My Sharona"). The rallying cry
> was "disco sucks!" And the Insane Coho Lips Breakfast Club.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Dahl
>
> Jeez, I am getting old.
There was a lady put up with me for a time who liked
a number of bands, and I thought they were alright.
Flipper, I think, recorded Sex Bomb. Somebody sang
a little ditty with the refrain
"Calling Doctor Howard, Doctor Fine, Doctor Howard."
--
Michael Press
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 00:02:56
From: G.T.
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
Michael Press wrote:
> In article
> <timmcn-DD02CA.21490922082007@news.iphouse.com>,
> Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
>> In article <13cpgu84satsc61@corp.supernews.com>,
>> A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> Tom Nakashima wrote:
>>>> I also remember the environmental craze kicked in the early 70's as
>>>> Earth Day was celebrated to help boost the bicycle spike. People
>>>> were becoming more health conscious. Jogging and workout suits
>>>> were in fashion. It's possible "Disco" could have caused the bike
>>>> boom crash. The popularity of disco started in 1975. Difficult to
>>>> ride in those platform shoes and polyester bellbottoms.
>>> No matter what evil you ascribe to disco, I'd believe it.
>> Ah you're taking me back to the days of Steve Dahl and Teenage Radiation
>> with their parody quasi-hits "Do You Think I'm Disco" (a shot at "Do Ya
>> Think I'm Sexy" by Rod Stewart), "Skylab" (to the tune of "Shattered")
>> and "Ayatollah" (a topical takeoff on "My Sharona"). The rallying cry
>> was "disco sucks!" And the Insane Coho Lips Breakfast Club.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Dahl
>>
>> Jeez, I am getting old.
>
> There was a lady put up with me for a time who liked
> a number of bands, and I thought they were alright.
> Flipper, I think, recorded Sex Bomb.
Along with many other classics like
"Brainwash":
am endless lock groove of "Forget it, You wouldnŽt understand anyway".
"Earthworm"
"Low Rider"
"Love Canal"
"Ha ha ha":
What is there to do she said
He said come on baby
And IŽll show you a good time
So they went on down
To one of those cheap motels
And they got all gushy and wet
And i say
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho
He he he he he he he he
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
and a great version of "I Know an Old Lady who Swallowed a Fly".
Greg
--
Ticketmaster and Ticketweb suck, but everyone knows that:
http://www.ticketmastersucks.org
Dethink to survive - Mclusky
|
| | | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 17:03:28
From: * * Chas
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote in message
news:13cpgu84satsc61@corp.supernews.com...
> Tom Nakashima wrote:
> > I also remember the environmental craze kicked in the early 70's as
Earth
> > Day was celebrated to help boost the bicycle spike. People were
becoming
> > more health conscious. Jogging and workout suits were in fashion.
It's
> > possible "Disco" could have caused the bike boom crash.
> > The popularity of disco started in 1975. Difficult to ride in those
platform
> > shoes and polyester bellbottoms.
>
> No matter what evil you ascribe to disco, I'd believe it.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Where's your "DISCO SUCKS" bumper sticker...
Chas.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 00:36:50
From: Jim Flom
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
"* * Chas" <verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com > wrote...
>
> Where's your "DISCO SUCKS" bumper sticker...
Right next to my Dallas sucks one.
JF, Eagles Ambassador to Canada
|
| |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 12:03:20
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
Tom Nakashima wrote:
> When Carl sent me the link to the bike boom crash of '74, I was fascinated
> reading the data. For one I was living in the era and had it blow right by
> me. And second I was living in the Santa Clara Valley which had a 48-49%
> increase, geographically the highest in bicycles sales. In the article, the
> bike
> boom might have been blamed on climate, but I had another theory:
> The Draft of the Vietnam War.
What you say here makes a lot of sense. I was also in that
"demographic"; graduated from high school in '69 but damn sure went to
college. I probably would have done so anyway (I haven't left college
yet....), but lots of others were encouraged by the draft deferment.
And everyone in college had a bike.
It was also the time when the bulk of the baby boomers were 16-21,
which, then, was prime bike-riding age.
The article seems to just ignore both of those effects, the war/draft
incentive to stay in school and the large numbers of late-adolescent
boomers.
It also misses the boat, in my opinion, regarding the distinction
between lightweight/other bikes. The increase in sales of lightweight
bikes in the 70s was not due to the gas "crisis" but rather to the entry
of higher-quality cheap lightweight bikes from Japan out-competing the
venerable, massive, Schwinn Varsity. Prior to that time, the only
"lightweight" bikes available were more expensive, exotic European
racing bikes with such things as tubular tires.
Much of the shortsightedness of the article, though, is clearly due to a
lack of perspective. It was written in, what, 1977? It's harder to see
the effect of either the war, or the baby boomers, or even the Japanese,
while all that is still going on (OK, we were out of Vietnam).
> Carls charts that he posted:
>
> The Chart of the bicycle boom and crash
> http://www.truewheelers.org/research/studies/aaa/images/fig01sm.gif
>
> The Article
> http://www.truewheelers.org/research/studies/aaa/02users.htm
>
--
David L. Johnson
Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on
no account be allowed to do the job.
-- Douglas Adams
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 09:23:53
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
"David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh.edu > wrote in message
news:8sOdnV2BhcGEw1HbnZ2dnUVZ_uiknZ2d@ptd.net...
>
> It also misses the boat, in my opinion, regarding the distinction between
> lightweight/other bikes. The increase in sales of lightweight bikes in
> the 70s was not due to the gas "crisis" but rather to the entry of
> higher-quality cheap lightweight bikes from Japan out-competing the David
> L. Johnson
>
As I recall back in the early through the mid 70's one of the bikes
of choice besides the Nishiki, was the Peugeot U08. For
just a tad more money than the Schwinn Varsity, one could purchase
the lighter French Bike. I also recall Raleigh's to be a big hit back then.
Schwinn had the Paramount, but for that money, one could buy an
Italian Bianchi.
-tom
|
| | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 22:09:31
From: John Thompson
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
On 2007-08-22, Tom Nakashima <tom@slac.stanford.edu > wrote:
> "David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh.edu> wrote in message
> news:8sOdnV2BhcGEw1HbnZ2dnUVZ_uiknZ2d@ptd.net...
>>
>> It also misses the boat, in my opinion, regarding the distinction between
>> lightweight/other bikes. The increase in sales of lightweight bikes in
>> the 70s was not due to the gas "crisis" but rather to the entry of
>> higher-quality cheap lightweight bikes from Japan out-competing the David
>> L. Johnson
> As I recall back in the early through the mid 70's one of the bikes
> of choice besides the Nishiki, was the Peugeot U08. For
> just a tad more money than the Schwinn Varsity, one could purchase
> the lighter French Bike. I also recall Raleigh's to be a big hit back then.
>
> Schwinn had the Paramount, but for that money, one could buy an
> Italian Bianchi.
Or an Atala, or Bottechia. Or a Peugeot PX-10. The European
"lightweights" of the time simply blew away most of the domestic
production.
--
John (john@os2.dhs.org)
|
| | | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 05:01:01
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
>>> It also misses the boat, in my opinion, regarding the distinction
>>> between
>>> lightweight/other bikes. The increase in sales of lightweight bikes in
>>> the 70s was not due to the gas "crisis" but rather to the entry of
>>> higher-quality cheap lightweight bikes from Japan out-competing the
>>> David
>>> L. Johnson
>
>> As I recall back in the early through the mid 70's one of the bikes
>> of choice besides the Nishiki, was the Peugeot U08. For
>> just a tad more money than the Schwinn Varsity, one could purchase
>> the lighter French Bike. I also recall Raleigh's to be a big hit back
>> then.
>>
>> Schwinn had the Paramount, but for that money, one could buy an
>> Italian Bianchi.
>
> Or an Atala, or Bottechia. Or a Peugeot PX-10. The European
> "lightweights" of the time simply blew away most of the domestic
> production.
I sold Atalas and Bottechias. Not Peugeots or Bianchi, but was quite
familiar with them (got to work on many). I wouldn't put any of those brands
in the same league as the Paramount. And I say this having never sold a
Paramount. I'll admit there was a certain illusion of mystique surrounding
the Italian frames, and I bought into it at the time. But looking back at
it, I realize that I knew, at the time, that the Paramount got it right,
consistently right. The Paramounts imitation of what a great racing bike
could be produced a better machine than the original. We wanted so badly to
believe (us young racers/mechanics) in the superiority of Columbus SL or SP
or, better yet, the absolute brilliance that came from mixing an SP
(heavier) downtube into a frame otherwise built with SL tubing. We had all
the wall thicknesses memorized, and knew that, in most cases, seatpost size
showed you what gauge tubing was used for the seat tube, and you built your
knowledge of the frame around that small beginning.
For years I bought into the romance of the Italian frame, to the extent that
I was on a waiting list at Cupertino Bike Shop for 6 months before my
Cinelli finally arrived (about 6 months ahead of schedule, because somebody
had cancelled out an order on pretty much exactly what I was looking for).
And I *believed* in that frame. It was magic. My Bob Jackson crit bike was
functional, and lighter, but it didn't have that rock-solid quality when
descending (and it eventually turned on me, when the brake bridge cracked
off, as was to happen to many others as well).
Paramounts were, at worst, boring bikes. They worked, they didn't call
attention to themselves for the most part (except on the track, where it was
pretty much *THE* machine to have... although, of course, I had to have an
Italian Benotto).
Who got me into all this in the first place?
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
|
| | | | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2007 09:55:18
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
|
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> Paramounts were, ...<snip>... (except on the track, where it was
> pretty much *THE* machine to have...
You're just saying that because the Gatto brothers rode them in San Jose.
There was a (white, of course) Paramount track bike for sale at last
Spring's Trexlertown swap meet that supposedly belonged to one of them.
--
David L. Johnson
It doesn't get any easier, you just go faster.
--Greg LeMond
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Date: 23 Aug 2007 10:03:16
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
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>> Paramounts were, ...<snip>... (except on the track, where it was pretty
>> much *THE* machine to have...
>
> You're just saying that because the Gatto brothers rode them in San Jose.
You're forgetting that Jack Disney had moved up this way as well...
And it's the *Notorious* Gatto brothers, by the way!!!
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
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Date: 23 Aug 2007 13:15:33
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
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Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>> Paramounts were, ...<snip>... (except on the track, where it was pretty
>>> much *THE* machine to have...
>> You're just saying that because the Gatto brothers rode them in San Jose.
>
> You're forgetting that Jack Disney had moved up this way as well...
>
> And it's the *Notorious* Gatto brothers, by the way!!!
Go, Vince!
--
David L. Johnson
A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems.
-- Paul Erdos
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Date: 23 Aug 2007 06:33:39
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
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"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote in message
news:hw8zi.50427$YL5.20460@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>>>> It also misses the boat, in my opinion, regarding the distinction
>>>> between
>>>> lightweight/other bikes. The increase in sales of lightweight bikes in
>>>> the 70s was not due to the gas "crisis" but rather to the entry of
>>>> higher-quality cheap lightweight bikes from Japan out-competing the
>>>> David
>>>> L. Johnson
>>
>>> As I recall back in the early through the mid 70's one of the bikes
>>> of choice besides the Nishiki, was the Peugeot U08. For
>>> just a tad more money than the Schwinn Varsity, one could purchase
>>> the lighter French Bike. I also recall Raleigh's to be a big hit back
>>> then.
>>>
>>> Schwinn had the Paramount, but for that money, one could buy an
>>> Italian Bianchi.
>>
>> Or an Atala, or Bottechia. Or a Peugeot PX-10. The European
>> "lightweights" of the time simply blew away most of the domestic
>> production.
>
> I sold Atalas and Bottechias. Not Peugeots or Bianchi, but was quite
> familiar with them (got to work on many). I wouldn't put any of those
> brands in the same league as the Paramount. And I say this having never
> sold a Paramount. I'll admit there was a certain illusion of mystique
> surrounding the Italian frames, and I bought into it at the time. But
> looking back at it, I realize that I knew, at the time, that the Paramount
> got it right, consistently right. The Paramounts imitation of what a great
> racing bike could be produced a better machine than the original. We
> wanted so badly to believe (us young racers/mechanics) in the superiority
> of Columbus SL or SP or, better yet, the absolute brilliance that came
> from mixing an SP (heavier) downtube into a frame otherwise built with SL
> tubing. We had all the wall thicknesses memorized, and knew that, in most
> cases, seatpost size showed you what gauge tubing was used for the seat
> tube, and you built your knowledge of the frame around that small
> beginning.
>
> For years I bought into the romance of the Italian frame, to the extent
> that I was on a waiting list at Cupertino Bike Shop for 6 months before my
> Cinelli finally arrived (about 6 months ahead of schedule, because
> somebody had cancelled out an order on pretty much exactly what I was
> looking for). And I *believed* in that frame. It was magic. My Bob Jackson
> crit bike was functional, and lighter, but it didn't have that rock-solid
> quality when descending (and it eventually turned on me, when the brake
> bridge cracked off, as was to happen to many others as well).
>
> Paramounts were, at worst, boring bikes. They worked, they didn't call
> attention to themselves for the most part (except on the track, where it
> was pretty much *THE* machine to have... although, of course, I had to
> have an Italian Benotto).
>
> Who got me into all this in the first place?
>
I may have, but I truly enjoyed reading all the post, brings back some great
memories for me.
-tom
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Date: 22 Aug 2007 19:48:15
From: _
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
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On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:23:53 -0700, Tom Nakashima wrote:
> "David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh.edu> wrote in message
> news:8sOdnV2BhcGEw1HbnZ2dnUVZ_uiknZ2d@ptd.net...
>>
>> It also misses the boat, in my opinion, regarding the distinction between
>> lightweight/other bikes. The increase in sales of lightweight bikes in
>> the 70s was not due to the gas "crisis" but rather to the entry of
>> higher-quality cheap lightweight bikes from Japan out-competing the David
>> L. Johnson
>>
>
> As I recall back in the early through the mid 70's one of the bikes
> of choice besides the Nishiki, was the Peugeot U08. For
> just a tad more money than the Schwinn Varsity, one could purchase
> the lighter French Bike. I also recall Raleigh's to be a big hit back then.
>
Japanese BSO's (bicycle shaped objects) were a second wave.
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Date: 22 Aug 2007 09:41:34
From: catzz66
Subject: Re: The bike boom of the early 70's
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Tom Nakashima wrote:
> When Carl sent me the link to the bike boom crash of '74, I was fascinated
> reading the data. For one I was living in the era and had it blow right by
> me. ...
>
I bought a $100 Murray that helped me strain my knee because the drive
train didn't function very well. After that, I became a runner and then
later a walker for the next 30 years. Glad I rediscovered smooth
running skinny tired bikes several years ago. I have enjoyed it much
more than I ever enjoyed running.
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