| |
Main
Date: 10 Jul 2007 20:31:09
From: still me
Subject: Tires for riding in the wet, and/or wet leaves?
|
For training riding (not racing, just getting exercise and not
crashing, and sticking with something you can find in 700C):
Are cross tires, maybe seriously knobby tires, any better in the wet?
Or are you better off with a standard tire since hydroplaning is
(possibly) not a bike issue at reasonable speeds (no need to channel
water) and you still want to just get as much tread on the road as you
can? How about in wet and wet leaves with pavement somewhere
underneath? Do cross tires help there or hurt? I'm not thinking of
deep mud, but just messy & wet conditions.
|
|
| |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 23:30:33
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: Tires for riding in the wet, and/or wet leaves?
|
still me wrote:
> Are cross tires, maybe seriously knobby tires, any better in the wet?
No. In the mud, yes the cross tires would be better. They would be
somewhat better in gravel, or snow, but on wet roads they would, if
anything, be worse, since not as much rubber is on the road.
> Or are you better off with a standard tire since hydroplaning is
> (possibly) not a bike issue at reasonable speeds (no need to channel
> water) and you still want to just get as much tread on the road as you
> can?
That would be it.
> How about in wet and wet leaves with pavement somewhere
> underneath? Do cross tires help there or hurt?
How can the tire matter in this case? With wet leaves, it is the
friction between the bottom layer of leaves and the road (or lack
thereof) that matters, not how tightly the tire is gripping the top
layer of leaves.
Best to just cross wet leaves carefully, not trying to turn, and hope
you can get through them to something more suitable.
--
David L. Johnson
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by
little statesmen and philosophers and divines."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
| | |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 22:43:52
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Tires for riding in the wet, and/or wet leaves?
|
> still me wrote:
>> Are cross tires, maybe seriously knobby tires, any better in the wet?
David L. Johnson wrote:
> No. In the mud, yes the cross tires would be better. They would be
> somewhat better in gravel, or snow, but on wet roads they would, if
> anything, be worse, since not as much rubber is on the road.
> still me wrote:
>> Or are you better off with a standard tire since hydroplaning is
>> (possibly) not a bike issue at reasonable speeds (no need to channel
>> water) and you still want to just get as much tread on the road as you
>> can?
David L. Johnson wrote:
> That would be it.
> still me wrote:
>> How about in wet and wet leaves with pavement somewhere
>> underneath? Do cross tires help there or hurt?
David L. Johnson wrote:
> How can the tire matter in this case? With wet leaves, it is the
> friction between the bottom layer of leaves and the road (or lack
> thereof) that matters, not how tightly the tire is gripping the top
> layer of leaves.
> Best to just cross wet leaves carefully, not trying to turn, and hope
> you can get through them to something more suitable.
David's got it. When I was an impressionable teenager I bought some
cyclo cross tubulars (they looked so knarly!) for winter commuting.
First day I zoomed downhill into a sweeping reverse-banked turn (Webster
at Dayton) on clean cry pavement, slid out and dumped the bike into the
curb. Same bike, same road, wrong tire.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | |
Date: 11 Jul 2007 19:31:10
From: still me
Subject: Re: Tires for riding in the wet, and/or wet leaves?
|
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 22:43:52 -0500, A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org >
wrote:
>David's got it. When I was an impressionable teenager I bought some
>cyclo cross tubulars (they looked so knarly!) for winter commuting.
>First day I zoomed downhill into a sweeping reverse-banked turn (Webster
>at Dayton) on clean cry pavement, slid out and dumped the bike into the
>curb. Same bike, same road, wrong tire.
Thanks, all.
|
| | | |
Date: 11 Jul 2007 17:49:41
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Tires for riding in the wet, and/or wet leaves?
|
In article <1398kgb87uen876@corp.supernews.com >,
A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> David L. Johnson wrote:
> > How can the tire matter in this case? With wet leaves, it is the
> > friction between the bottom layer of leaves and the road (or lack
> > thereof) that matters, not how tightly the tire is gripping the top
> > layer of leaves.
> > Best to just cross wet leaves carefully, not trying to turn, and hope
> > you can get through them to something more suitable.
>
> David's got it. When I was an impressionable teenager I bought some
> cyclo cross tubulars (they looked so knarly!) for winter commuting.
> First day I zoomed downhill into a sweeping reverse-banked turn (Webster
> at Dayton) on clean cry pavement, slid out and dumped the bike into the
> curb. Same bike, same road, wrong tire.
I'd cry too.
--
Michael Press
|
| |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 17:47:33
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: Tires for riding in the wet, and/or wet leaves?
|
On Jul 10, 3:24 pm, Nate Knutson <biken...@riseup.net > wrote:
> On Jul 10, 1:31 pm, still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > For training riding (not racing, just getting exercise and not
> > crashing, and sticking with something you can find in 700C):
>
> > Are cross tires, maybe seriously knobby tires, any better in the wet?
> > Or are you better off with a standard tire since hydroplaning is
> > (possibly) not a bike issue at reasonable speeds (no need to channel
> > water) and you still want to just get as much tread on the road as you
> > can? How about in wet and wet leaves with pavement somewhere
> > underneath? Do cross tires help there or hurt? I'm not thinking of
> > deep mud, but just messy & wet conditions.
>
> All else being equal, true slicks are best on wet roads, for the same
> reasons you describe except that bikes basically can't hydroplane.
> Road tires with typical cosmetic tread are technically worse but it's
> generally negligible. Any kind of tread, even inverted, that's
> aggressive enough to do anything for you in any kind of off-road
> conditions is going to make traction worse in wet on-road conditions.
> There are some fairly narrow tires with more serious inverted tread
> marketed as "commute tires," like 700x28 Michelin Transworlds. This
> whole genre is really horrible and useless for most people, since they
> won't actually be riding anyplace where the tread will do much at all,
> not that it will ever do much, but you really want every bit of
> cornering safety you can get in the wet. Compound and especially
> pressure are both factors in all this too, of course.
>
> I don't know about the leaves but I don't think there's much you can
> do about it that won't compromise things when not riding on leaves.
Knobbies also squirm on paved corners and give you less traction than
slicks. There are rare road conditions where knobbies are superior,
like when the road is so crappy you are essentially trail riding -- or
not making contact with the pavement because of snow or leaf pack.
But most of the time, your tire makes contact with the pavement, and a
slick will give better traction in that situation. I ride 28mm tires
during the long rainy season. Even though the super tough tires (like
my current Bontrager "Hard Case") are good to have because they are
flat resistant, they suck traction-wise in part because of the tread
compound but also because they are so stiff and non-compliant. I
prefer a soft compound, compliant tire for riding in the rain,
although that may mean fixing more flats in the rain. As for fresh
leaves (and not hard packed leaves stuck to the pavement), you're
screwed. Nothing will give you traction because even if your tire
sticks to the leaves, the leaves are not sticking to the pavement.
It's like riding on banana peels.-- Jay Beattie.
|
| |
Date: 10 Jul 2007 15:24:27
From: Nate Knutson
Subject: Re: Tires for riding in the wet, and/or wet leaves?
|
On Jul 10, 1:31 pm, still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> For training riding (not racing, just getting exercise and not
> crashing, and sticking with something you can find in 700C):
>
> Are cross tires, maybe seriously knobby tires, any better in the wet?
> Or are you better off with a standard tire since hydroplaning is
> (possibly) not a bike issue at reasonable speeds (no need to channel
> water) and you still want to just get as much tread on the road as you
> can? How about in wet and wet leaves with pavement somewhere
> underneath? Do cross tires help there or hurt? I'm not thinking of
> deep mud, but just messy & wet conditions.
All else being equal, true slicks are best on wet roads, for the same
reasons you describe except that bikes basically can't hydroplane.
Road tires with typical cosmetic tread are technically worse but it's
generally negligible. Any kind of tread, even inverted, that's
aggressive enough to do anything for you in any kind of off-road
conditions is going to make traction worse in wet on-road conditions.
There are some fairly narrow tires with more serious inverted tread
marketed as "commute tires," like 700x28 Michelin Transworlds. This
whole genre is really horrible and useless for most people, since they
won't actually be riding anyplace where the tread will do much at all,
not that it will ever do much, but you really want every bit of
cornering safety you can get in the wet. Compound and especially
pressure are both factors in all this too, of course.
I don't know about the leaves but I don't think there's much you can
do about it that won't compromise things when not riding on leaves.
|
|
