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Main
Date: 12 Jul 2007 15:11:34
From: Alan Hoyle
Subject: Trek TCT vs OCLV?
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I know the TCT is made in Taiwan and the OCLV in Minnesota. Is there
any difference in their reliability and/or the warranty?
-alan
--
Alan Hoyle - alanh@unc.edu - http://www.alanhoyle.com/
"I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG
Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.
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Date: 15 Jul 2007 00:24:46
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Trek TCT vs OCLV?
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On Jul 14, 8:24 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net > wrote:
> A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > If they woke up and smelled the coffee they should be very worried.
> > Jobs of similar skill and exertion don't pay as much in other
> > industries or even in other auto plants so their product is
> > inherently more expensive.
>
> > If their productivity or quality were commensurately higher they
> > would have no worries.
>
> You seem to be blaming the generally low quality of US autos on unions,
> whereas I would lay the blame on an entrenched, overly politically
> powerful, and conservatively resistance to change management.
>
> Productivity isn't an issue. U.S. auto workers have no trouble keeping
> up with demand, since demand has fallen sharply. The reason for that is
> poor decision making at the management level- they just do not know how
> to operate a business that is not a monopoly. The U.S. auto industry
> had ample warning and just blew it off, to their very expensive cost.
There is a fairly good argument that one of the
reasons the domestic auto industry has a hard time
being competitive is that it is staggering under
the weight of healthcare and pension obligations for
its retirees. This is not to excuse management
failures of strategic vision (or union failures of
strategic vision for that matter). It's actually
more of an argument about how the expense of our
health care system hurts US businesses competitively.
(Demographers say that US healthcare is on a par
with the other industrialized nations in terms of
quality, but that we spend a lot more for the same
level of quality.)
Ben
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Date: 14 Jul 2007 19:38:17
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Trek TCT vs OCLV?
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On Jul 14, 12:32 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <139fqtukevpf...@corp.supernews.com>,
> A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > >>> Alan Hoyle wrote:
> > >>>> I know the TCT is made in Taiwan and the OCLV in Minnesota. Is there
> > >>>> any difference in their reliability and/or the warranty?
>
> > >> Jeff wrote:
> > >>> Treks are made in Wisconsin not Minnesota.
>
> > > Steve <sfswan...@operamail.com> wrote:
> > >> Actually *most* treks are made in taiwan and china just like 87.5% of
> > >> the bikes out there
>
> > Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > > Has the figure fallen to only 87.5% recently? ;-)
>
> > Free China and Mainland China together don't comprise 100% due to
> > various fractional contributions from Italy, USA, Japan, others. We Be
> > Toys has Indonesian BSOs now for example.
>
> Yeah, but now do the numbers by value of bikes. Not sure where the
> world's vast rafts of utility bikes would fit into the equation, but
> half the bike business in the US, by dollars, goes through bicycle
> retailers, not Wal- et al.
>
> Of course, a fair number of LBS bikes are Taiwanese in origin (though at
> this point Taiwan is clearly where Japan was in the early 80s: source of
> some of the highest-quality bikes on the planet, only a bit less
> expensive), and some are even Chinese, but it would not surprise me to
> hear that the "neither-China" portion of the US bike market, by dollars,
> was closer to 25% than 12.5%.
>
> Not that I have the numbers either way, but that's a Fermi-style guess.
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau rcous...@sfu.cahttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
take the number of bikes and total dollar amount the yellow jersey
sells in a year and multiply by the number of college towns of that
size, then smaller college towns as a percentage of A.Muzi's town
or a a percenage of population for all college towns
then non-college towns find 3 bike shops in cold, warm hot
enviroments, find same then multiply by number of towns. the feds have
a site for demographics-several.
then figure per centage of trade deficit for each cycle producing
country and ura ballpark!
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Date: 14 Jul 2007 16:06:48
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Trek TCT vs OCLV?
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>>>>>> Alan Hoyle wrote:
>>>>>>> I know the TCT is made in Taiwan and the OCLV in Minnesota. Is there
>>>>>>> any difference in their reliability and/or the warranty?
>>>>> Jeff wrote:
>>>>>> Treks are made in Wisconsin not Minnesota.
-snip- snip- snip-
datakoll wrote:
> take the number of bikes and total dollar amount the yellow jersey
> sells in a year and multiply by the number of college towns of that
> size, then smaller college towns as a percentage of A.Muzi's town
> or a a percenage of population for all college towns
> then non-college towns find 3 bike shops in cold, warm hot
> enviroments, find same then multiply by number of towns. the feds have
> a site for demographics-several.
> then figure per centage of trade deficit for each cycle producing
> country and ura ballpark!
ohhhh Kaaaay - but we hardly sell any bikes _here_....
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 14 Jul 2007 17:01:49
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Trek TCT vs OCLV?
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Andrew Muzi wrote:
>>>>>>> Alan Hoyle wrote:
>>>>>>>> I know the TCT is made in Taiwan and the OCLV in Minnesota. Is
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>> any difference in their reliability and/or the warranty?
>>>>>> Jeff wrote:
>>>>>>> Treks are made in Wisconsin not Minnesota.
> -snip- snip- snip-
>
> datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
>> take the number of bikes and total dollar amount the yellow jersey
>> sells in a year and multiply by the number of college towns of that
>> size, then smaller college towns as a percentage of A.Muzi's town
>> or a a percenage of population for all college towns
>> then non-college towns find 3 bike shops in cold, warm hot
>> enviroments, find same then multiply by number of towns. the feds have
>> a site for demographics-several.
>> then figure per centage of trade deficit for each cycle producing
>> country and ura ballpark!
>
> ohhhh Kaaaay - but we hardly sell any bikes _here_....
For those not familiar with Madison, Andrew Muzi has two (2) major
competitors for new bicycles sales within easy walking distance of his
shop, not to mention several more in the metropolitan area.
Anecdotal evidence indicates that Mr. Muzi and his minions [1] will get
repairs done quicker than the competition, which is a factor for the
many commuters in the area that wish to avoid Madison Metro as much as
possible (an understandable sentiment).
[1] Sorry, but the alliteration was too tempting.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 13 Jul 2007 20:16:30
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Trek TCT vs OCLV?
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On Jul 13, 1:14 pm, Bill Westphal <a...@westphal.org > wrote:
> "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com> writes:
> >> > Actually *most* treks are made in taiwan and china just like 87.5% of
> >> > the bikes out there
>
> >> Has the figure fallen to only 87.5% recently? ;-)
> > --------
> > Chrysler just struck a deal with China to them make their small cars. Some
> > are alarmed as this could be the beginning of the end of manufacturing cars
> > in the USA. If they look what happened in the bike industry, auto unions
> > should be very worried.
>
> At least we're still printing greenbacks in this country. For now
> that's all we need. Soon that will be all we have. Then we'll
> outsource that task.
if one wants to deal with the issue then review the economics of the
pre devalued Japanese currency problem, take a look at the suntour
derays from that period: edwardian
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Date: 13 Jul 2007 05:56:01
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Trek TCT vs OCLV?
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On Jul 13, 7:23 am, Steve <sfswan...@operamail.com > wrote:
> Jeff wrote:
> > Alan Hoyle wrote:
> >> I know the TCT is made in Taiwan and the OCLV in Minnesota. Is there
> >> any difference in their reliability and/or the warranty?
> >> -alan
>
> > Treks are made in Wisconsin not Minnesota.
>
> Actually *most* treks are made in taiwan and china just like 87.5% of
> the bikes out there
>
Has the figure fallen to only 87.5% recently? ;-)
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Date: 13 Jul 2007 16:16:32
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Trek TCT vs OCLV?
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>>> Alan Hoyle wrote:
>>>> I know the TCT is made in Taiwan and the OCLV in Minnesota. Is there
>>>> any difference in their reliability and/or the warranty?
>> Jeff wrote:
>>> Treks are made in Wisconsin not Minnesota.
> Steve <sfswan...@operamail.com> wrote:
>> Actually *most* treks are made in taiwan and china just like 87.5% of
>> the bikes out there
Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> Has the figure fallen to only 87.5% recently? ;-)
Free China and Mainland China together don't comprise 100% due to
various fractional contributions from Italy, USA, Japan, others. We Be
Toys has Indonesian BSOs now for example.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 14 Jul 2007 04:32:38
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Trek TCT vs OCLV?
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In article <139fqtukevpfo37@corp.supernews.com >,
A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> >>> Alan Hoyle wrote:
> >>>> I know the TCT is made in Taiwan and the OCLV in Minnesota. Is there
> >>>> any difference in their reliability and/or the warranty?
>
> >> Jeff wrote:
> >>> Treks are made in Wisconsin not Minnesota.
>
> > Steve <sfswan...@operamail.com> wrote:
> >> Actually *most* treks are made in taiwan and china just like 87.5% of
> >> the bikes out there
>
> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > Has the figure fallen to only 87.5% recently? ;-)
>
> Free China and Mainland China together don't comprise 100% due to
> various fractional contributions from Italy, USA, Japan, others. We Be
> Toys has Indonesian BSOs now for example.
Yeah, but now do the numbers by value of bikes. Not sure where the
world's vast rafts of utility bikes would fit into the equation, but
half the bike business in the US, by dollars, goes through bicycle
retailers, not Wal- et al.
Of course, a fair number of LBS bikes are Taiwanese in origin (though at
this point Taiwan is clearly where Japan was in the early 80s: source of
some of the highest-quality bikes on the planet, only a bit less
expensive), and some are even Chinese, but it would not surprise me to
hear that the "neither-China" portion of the US bike market, by dollars,
was closer to 25% than 12.5%.
Not that I have the numbers either way, but that's a Fermi-style guess.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 13 Jul 2007 13:51:02
From: Callistus Valerius
Subject: Re: Trek TCT vs OCLV?
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> > Actually *most* treks are made in taiwan and china just like 87.5% of
> > the bikes out there
> >
>
> Has the figure fallen to only 87.5% recently? ;-)
--------
Chrysler just struck a deal with China to them make their small cars. Some
are alarmed as this could be the beginning of the end of manufacturing cars
in the USA. If they look what happened in the bike industry, auto unions
should be very worried.
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Date: 13 Jul 2007 20:04:08
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Trek TCT vs OCLV?
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>>> Actually *most* treks are made in taiwan and china just like 87.5% of
>>> the bikes out there
>> Has the figure fallen to only 87.5% recently? ;-)
Callistus Valerius wrote:
> Chrysler just struck a deal with China to them make their small cars. Some
> are alarmed as this could be the beginning of the end of manufacturing cars
> in the USA. If they look what happened in the bike industry, auto unions
> should be very worried.
If they woke up and smelled the coffee they should be very worried. Jobs
of similar skill and exertion don't pay as much in other industries or
even in other auto plants so their product is inherently more expensive.
If their productivity or quality were commensurately higher they would
have no worries.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 14 Jul 2007 10:24:35
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Trek TCT vs OCLV?
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In article <139g8895e5rpob8@corp.supernews.com >,
A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org > wrote:
> >>> Actually *most* treks are made in taiwan and china just like
> >>> 87.5% of the bikes out there
>
> >> Has the figure fallen to only 87.5% recently? ;-)
>
> Callistus Valerius wrote:
> > Chrysler just struck a deal with China to them make their small
> > cars. Some are alarmed as this could be the beginning of the end
> > of manufacturing cars in the USA. If they look what happened in
> > the bike industry, auto unions should be very worried.
>
> If they woke up and smelled the coffee they should be very worried.
> Jobs of similar skill and exertion don't pay as much in other
> industries or even in other auto plants so their product is
> inherently more expensive.
>
> If their productivity or quality were commensurately higher they
> would have no worries.
You seem to be blaming the generally low quality of US autos on unions,
whereas I would lay the blame on an entrenched, overly politically
powerful, and conservatively resistance to change management.
Productivity isn't an issue. U.S. auto workers have no trouble keeping
up with demand, since demand has fallen sharply. The reason for that is
poor decision making at the management level- they just do not know how
to operate a business that is not a monopoly. The U.S. auto industry
had ample warning and just blew it off, to their very expensive cost.
Unions tend to create problems of their own. The collapse of the U.S.
automakers' monopoly isn't one of them. That's a management failure.
The local Ford plant will close in 2008 although it is already closed
for the most part. Demand for the vehicle produced there (Ranger) fell
steadily over a 15 year period, yet Ford management made no adjustments
in their strategy for this, their sales withered and the plant has
closed- losing them millions of dollars in assets. The trend was
obvious for a decade, and yet neither Ford nor local politicians seemed
to wake up to notice until after the horse was out of the barn. Then
the latter ran around like chickens with their heads cut off,
accomplishing nothing. Management loves to exonerate itself by blaming
labor and unions, but it's a smokescreen. Incompetent management and
failure to understand that the world changes is the root cause.
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Date: 13 Jul 2007 11:14:53
From: Bill Westphal
Subject: Re: Trek TCT vs OCLV?
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"Callistus Valerius" <jazzyboss@hotmail.com > writes:
>> > Actually *most* treks are made in taiwan and china just like 87.5% of
>> > the bikes out there
>> >
>>
>> Has the figure fallen to only 87.5% recently? ;-)
> --------
> Chrysler just struck a deal with China to them make their small cars. Some
> are alarmed as this could be the beginning of the end of manufacturing cars
> in the USA. If they look what happened in the bike industry, auto unions
> should be very worried.
At least we're still printing greenbacks in this country. For now
that's all we need. Soon that will be all we have. Then we'll
outsource that task.
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Date: 13 Jul 2007 19:14:31
From: jim beam
Subject: Re: Trek TCT vs OCLV?
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Bill Westphal wrote:
> "Callistus Valerius" <jazzyboss@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>>>> Actually *most* treks are made in taiwan and china just like 87.5% of
>>>> the bikes out there
>>>>
>>> Has the figure fallen to only 87.5% recently? ;-)
>> --------
>> Chrysler just struck a deal with China to them make their small cars. Some
>> are alarmed as this could be the beginning of the end of manufacturing cars
>> in the USA. If they look what happened in the bike industry, auto unions
>> should be very worried.
>
> At least we're still printing greenbacks in this country. For now
> that's all we need. Soon that will be all we have. Then we'll
> outsource that task.
but n.korea does a roaring trade in printing our c-notes doesn't it?
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Date: 13 Jul 2007 19:00:06
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Trek TCT vs OCLV?
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On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:14:53 -0600, Bill Westphal <aioe@westphal.org >
wrote:
>"Callistus Valerius" <jazzyboss@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>>> > Actually *most* treks are made in taiwan and china just like 87.5% of
>>> > the bikes out there
>>> >
>>>
>>> Has the figure fallen to only 87.5% recently? ;-)
>> --------
>> Chrysler just struck a deal with China to them make their small cars. Some
>> are alarmed as this could be the beginning of the end of manufacturing cars
>> in the USA. If they look what happened in the bike industry, auto unions
>> should be very worried.
>
>At least we're still printing greenbacks in this country.
They are alledgely printed in at least once East Asian country as
well.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
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Date: 13 Jul 2007 12:28:54
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Trek TCT vs OCLV?
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On Jul 13, 8:23 am, Steve <sfswan...@operamail.com > wrote:
> Jeff wrote:
> > Alan Hoyle wrote:
> >> I know the TCT is made in Taiwan and the OCLV in Minnesota. Is there
> >> any difference in their reliability and/or the warranty?
> >> -alan
>
> > Treks are made in Wisconsin not Minnesota.
>
> Actually *most* treks are made in taiwan and china just like 87.5% of
> the bikes out there
>
> Steve
DOLAN SEZ HE'S FROM MINNESOTA
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Date: 13 Jul 2007 01:02:23
From: Jeff
Subject: Re: Trek TCT vs OCLV?
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Alan Hoyle wrote:
> I know the TCT is made in Taiwan and the OCLV in Minnesota. Is there
> any difference in their reliability and/or the warranty?
>
> -alan
>
Treks are made in Wisconsin not Minnesota.
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Date: 13 Jul 2007 08:23:09
From: Steve
Subject: Re: Trek TCT vs OCLV?
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Jeff wrote:
> Alan Hoyle wrote:
>> I know the TCT is made in Taiwan and the OCLV in Minnesota. Is there
>> any difference in their reliability and/or the warranty?
>> -alan
>>
> Treks are made in Wisconsin not Minnesota.
Actually *most* treks are made in taiwan and china just like 87.5% of
the bikes out there
Steve
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Date: 12 Jul 2007 21:08:49
From: Colin Campbell
Subject: Re: Trek TCT vs OCLV?
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Alan Hoyle wrote:
> I know the TCT is made in Taiwan and the OCLV in Minnesota. Is there
> any difference in their reliability and/or the warranty?
>
> -alan
>
Might be a good question to research at the Trek Web Site.
The short answer is "no" on the warranty, so it should be "no" on the
reliability.
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