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Main
Date: 28 Aug 2007 20:54:40
From: Crescentius Vespasianus
Subject: Trek out of control....
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Trek has increased it's Sora road bike
by $200. Huge increases across the
board. New web site, and all of the
Lance stuff is gone. They've obviously
lost it, and that's sad, because I own
two Trek Road bikes. Does money grow on
trees, the Trek people believe it does.
The only bike that's named the same is
the 520. I think they know if they
screw around with someone that would be
interested in something like that, they
would go somewhere else with the new
marketing that they are doing.
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Date: 31 Aug 2007 12:42:15
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Trek out of control....and into the biggest consumer ripoff of all
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On Aug 31, 1:40 pm, rick b <blue_...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Yeah, and I noticed on that page that Trek has a carbon crash
> replacement program too...even if it's not Trek's fault. I don't know
> what you think, but that program sure looks attractive to me.
They're selling insurance, right?
>
> In general, a company like Trek certainly is entitled to ask what
> price the market will bear.
To what are you referring here?
>
> "...Not only will Red Shield protect against manufacturer's defects on
> any new bike, but it also provides for any bike repair from mechanical
> breakdown due to the results of normal wear-and-tear, for the length
> of the coverage."
>
> That "normal wear-and-tear" coverage is not usually included in
> standard warranties.
If you want to see what happens when the "extended warranty" disease
invades an industry, take a visit to your nearest "Best Buy", "Radio
Shack", etc., where you well may get the idea that selling the
warranty is the most important thing of all to the salesclerk.
It wasn't always like that in the consumer electronics biz, but that's
what transpired: the "extended warranties" became the major revenue
stream (i.e., source of profit) for the retailers. The same thing
happened in the car biz. And the appliance biz. And......
UGH!
>
>
>
> > Has anyone noticed that Trek is now selling "extended warranties", the
> > biggest consumer ripoff of modern times?
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/36x4cl
>
> > Will Trek dealers be wearing white shoes, loud ties and white belts,
> > too?
>
> > .....and what about 'rustproofing' and 'undercoating', will that be
> > next?
>
> > UGH!!!!! :-((
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Date: 31 Aug 2007 11:40:27
From: rick b
Subject: Re: Trek out of control....and into the biggest consumer ripoff of all
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Yeah, and I noticed on that page that Trek has a carbon crash
replacement program too...even if it's not Trek's fault. I don't know
what you think, but that program sure looks attractive to me.
In general, a company like Trek certainly is entitled to ask what
price the market will bear.
"...Not only will Red Shield protect against manufacturer's defects on
any new bike, but it also provides for any bike repair from mechanical
breakdown due to the results of normal wear-and-tear, for the length
of the coverage."
That "normal wear-and-tear" coverage is not usually included in
standard warranties.
>
> Has anyone noticed that Trek is now selling "extended warranties", the
> biggest consumer ripoff of modern times?
>
> http://tinyurl.com/36x4cl
>
> Will Trek dealers be wearing white shoes, loud ties and white belts,
> too?
>
> .....and what about 'rustproofing' and 'undercoating', will that be
> next?
>
> UGH!!!!! :-((
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Date: 31 Aug 2007 10:08:02
From: Hank Wirtz
Subject: Re: Trek out of control....
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On Aug 28, 8:54 pm, Crescentius Vespasianus <jazzyb...@hotmail.com >
wrote:
> Trek has increased it's Sora road bike
> by $200. Huge increases across the
> board. New web site, and all of the
> Lance stuff is gone. They've obviously
> lost it, and that's sad, because I own
> two Trek Road bikes. Does money grow on
> trees, the Trek people believe it does.
> The only bike that's named the same is
> the 520. I think they know if they
> screw around with someone that would be
> interested in something like that, they
> would go somewhere else with the new
> marketing that they are doing.
I'm questioning your overall premise. MSRP was $699 on the 1000, and
it's $769 on the 1.2, which appears to be its replacement. A 10%
increase isn't small, but it's a third of the increase you're
claiming.
Or are you referring to different models?
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Date: 30 Aug 2007 20:04:00
From: John Thompson
Subject: Re: Trek out of control....
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On 2007-08-29, Crescentius Vespasianus <jazzyboss@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Trek has increased it's Sora road bike
> by $200. Huge increases across the
> board. New web site, and all of the
> Lance stuff is gone. They've obviously
> lost it, and that's sad, because I own
> two Trek Road bikes. Does money grow on
> trees, the Trek people believe it does.
Don't forget, the dollar isn't doing so well overseas, where Trek buys
most of their components.
--
John (john@os2.dhs.org)
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Date: 30 Aug 2007 14:58:14
From: Jay Beattie
Subject: Re: Trek out of control....
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On Aug 30, 1:02 pm, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Crescentius Vespasianus wrote:
>
> > Trek has increased it's Sora road bike
> > by $200. Huge increases across the
> > board.
> ...
> > Does money grow on
> > trees, the Trek people believe it does.
>
> Prepare yourself for more of the same, from everybody. The US
> dollar's buying power has been plunging. We've gotten used to higher
> food and fuel prices; now everything else follows suit. Even Chinese
> slaves gotta eat.
We are seeing what poor leadership means in terms of standard of
living. And I don't just mean leadership in the government, but in
business, too. We could easily slip to the second world if we do not
get a grip on foreign debt, oil dependence, war spending etc.
Vancouver is looking better every day! -- Jay Beattie.
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Date: 30 Aug 2007 17:02:30
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Trek out of control....
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Jay Beattie wrote:
> We are seeing what poor leadership means in terms of standard of
> living. And I don't just mean leadership in the government, but in
> business, too. We could easily slip to the second world if we do not
> get a grip on foreign debt, oil dependence, war spending etc.
> Vancouver is looking better every day! -- Jay Beattie.
Just look to Argentina for an example of where we are heading.
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Date: 30 Aug 2007 20:02:16
From: Chalo
Subject: Re: Trek out of control....
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Crescentius Vespasianus wrote:
>
> Trek has increased it's Sora road bike
> by $200. Huge increases across the
> board.
...
> Does money grow on
> trees, the Trek people believe it does.
Prepare yourself for more of the same, from everybody. The US
dollar's buying power has been plunging. We've gotten used to higher
food and fuel prices; now everything else follows suit. Even Chinese
slaves gotta eat.
Chalo
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Date: 30 Aug 2007 19:52:02
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Trek out of control....and into the biggest consumer ripoff of all
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On Aug 30, 2:33 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com > wrote:
> On Aug 28, 10:54 pm, Crescentius Vespasianus <jazzyb...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Trek has increased it's Sora road bike
> > by $200. Huge increases across the
> > board. New web site, and all of the
> > Lance stuff is gone. They've obviously
> > lost it, and that's sad, because I own
> > two Trek Road bikes. Does money grow on
> > trees, the Trek people believe it does.
> > The only bike that's named the same is
> > the 520. I think they know if they
> > screw around with someone that would be
> > interested in something like that, they
> > would go somewhere else with the new
> > marketing that they are doing.
>
> Has anyone noticed that Trek is now selling "extended warranties", the
> biggest consumer ripoff of modern times?
>
> http://tinyurl.com/36x4cl
>
> Will Trek dealers be wearing white shoes, loud ties and white belts,
> too?
>
> .....and what about 'rustproofing' and 'undercoating', will that be
> next?
>
> UGH!!!!! :-((
You look like you could use some floor mats, and Simonizing!
Seriously, though, I was shocked when the Kona I ordered up a couple
days ago was the same price as last year and the year before and that
I could get it with decent LP brakes instead of crap cable discs, and
so on. They're also offering solid hardtails for six bills or so. Is
the profit margin on the $1000+ bikes that much better that it's worth
keeping stuff south of that sparse on the sales floor?
My LBS doesn't stock Trek or Specialized. Power to 'em. They're a
mainly Kona, Cannondale, and Electra shop.
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Date: 30 Aug 2007 12:33:27
From: Ozark Bicycle
Subject: Re: Trek out of control....and into the biggest consumer ripoff of all
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On Aug 28, 10:54 pm, Crescentius Vespasianus <jazzyb...@hotmail.com >
wrote:
> Trek has increased it's Sora road bike
> by $200. Huge increases across the
> board. New web site, and all of the
> Lance stuff is gone. They've obviously
> lost it, and that's sad, because I own
> two Trek Road bikes. Does money grow on
> trees, the Trek people believe it does.
> The only bike that's named the same is
> the 520. I think they know if they
> screw around with someone that would be
> interested in something like that, they
> would go somewhere else with the new
> marketing that they are doing.
Has anyone noticed that Trek is now selling "extended warranties", the
biggest consumer ripoff of modern times?
http://tinyurl.com/36x4cl
Will Trek dealers be wearing white shoes, loud ties and white belts,
too?
.....and what about 'rustproofing' and 'undercoating', will that be
next?
UGH!!!!! :-((
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Date: 30 Aug 2007 16:15:09
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Trek out of control....
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On Aug 28, 10:54 pm, Crescentius Vespasianus <jazzyb...@hotmail.com >
wrote:
> Trek has increased it's Sora road bike
> by $200. Huge increases across the
> board. New web site, and all of the
> Lance stuff is gone. They've obviously
> lost it, and that's sad, because I own
> two Trek Road bikes. Does money grow on
> trees, the Trek people believe it does.
I just saw a "Portland" on Craigslist here for a paltry $1500. That
bike pretty much embodies what I despise about Trek these days. If I
had my way, to compensate for calling that thing a "commuter", they
should be forced to sell rigid mtbs with fenders, slicks, a rack, and
a custom Trek milk crate bungeed on, and call it the "Real Portland".
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Date: 30 Aug 2007 14:52:32
From: landotter
Subject: Re: Trek out of control....
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On Aug 30, 1:11 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com > wrote:
> Crescentius Vespasianus wrote:
> > Trek has increased it's Sora road bike by $200. Huge increases across
> > the board. New web site, and all of the Lance stuff is gone. They've
> > obviously lost it, and that's sad, because I own two Trek Road bikes.
> > Does money grow on trees, the Trek people believe it does. The only
> > bike that's named the same is the 520. I think they know if they screw
> > around with someone that would be interested in something like that,
> > they would go somewhere else with the new marketing that they are doing.
>
> Trek is becoming more of a lifestyle company like Sony and Apple.
> They've been worsening their product line for years now. The place to go
> for bicycles these days are to companies like Surly, Marin, Jamis, and
> REI.
Add to that list of big manufacturers that put out decent kit at a
good price point: Redline, Kona, and Electra. The soul sucking Sun and
Ski at my mall stocks a lot of the Marin Hybrids like the Larkspur and
the Belvedere--I'm glad to see them there.
>I have one Trek bicycle, but it's unlikely if I, or any of the
> relatives I do bike buying with, will ever get another Trek. There's
> just no reason to pay a premium for the Trek name.
Nope, none at all. I bought my last new Trek in '90, a floor demo 1200
with the funky bonded aluminum tubes and a 105 group. I have to say, I
really like that bike a lot, despite the hot pink logos.
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Date: 30 Aug 2007 05:58:29
From: zencycle
Subject: Re: Trek out of control....
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On Aug 28, 11:54 pm, Crescentius Vespasianus <jazzyb...@hotmail.com >
wrote:
> Trek has increased it's Sora road bike
> by $200. Huge increases across the
> board. New web site, and all of the
> Lance stuff is gone. They've obviously
> lost it, and that's sad, because I own
> two Trek Road bikes. Does money grow on
> trees, the Trek people believe it does.
> The only bike that's named the same is
> the 520. I think they know if they
> screw around with someone that would be
> interested in something like that, they
> would go somewhere else with the new
> marketing that they are doing.
In case you haven't bought a gallon of milk lately, you'll notice the
price of everything has gone up. Blame whomever you want (bush, big
oil, the federal reserve....), but it's happening. I've noticed this
year that most of the races I attend are $5 more than they were last
year. The cost of paramedics, police, USCF officials, and venue
permits have all increased. Don't be surprised to see the cost of
bikes going up.
As far as trek is concerned, they're not stupid. They know that can't
ride the lance bandwagon for ever, so it was only a question of 'when'
they changed marketing tactics, not 'if'. Just like car companies and
every other consumer product (VCRs, especially PCs, and even high-end
racing shoes) they feel they need to re-invent their product every
year. ' Hey bike rider, last years Madone is crap, get this years!
It's way better, and only a couple hundred bucks more! '
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Date: 31 Aug 2007 11:27:13
From: Yabba
Subject: Re: Trek out of control....
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On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 05:58:29 -0700, zencycle <zencycle@bikerider.com >
wrote:
>On Aug 28, 11:54 pm, Crescentius Vespasianus <jazzyb...@hotmail.com>
>
>In case you haven't bought a gallon of milk lately, you'll notice the
>price of everything has gone up. Blame whomever you want (bush, big
>oil, the federal reserve....), but it's happening. I've noticed this
>year that most of the races I attend are $5 more than they were last
>year. The cost of paramedics, police, USCF officials, and venue
>permits have all increased. Don't be surprised to see the cost of
>bikes going up.
Just to pick nits, USCF Officials do not cost more. I am in my 4th
year as an official; neither the labor rate nor the mileage
compensation for being an official has gone up at all. Your promoters
might be hiring more of them, but the cost per body is the same.
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Date: 30 Aug 2007 19:03:44
From: Steve Gravrock
Subject: Re: Trek out of control....
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On 2007-08-30, zencycle <zencycle@bikerider.com > wrote:
> In case you haven't bought a gallon of milk lately, you'll notice the
> price of everything has gone up. Blame whomever you want (bush, big
> oil, the federal reserve....), but it's happening.
It's not just Trek either, when it comes to bikes. Specialized's 2008
prices are up similarly and they also seem to be dropping practial,
cheapish models. Looking at the lines I can get locally (Trek, Giant,
and Specialized), it will no longer be possible to get a road bike for
less than $800 or one that doesn't come with Sora shifters for less than
$1000.
I'm most surprised that Trek dropped the lowest two Pilot models. Those
seem to have sold very well around here.
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Date: 29 Aug 2007 23:11:40
From: SMS
Subject: Re: Trek out of control....
|
Crescentius Vespasianus wrote:
> Trek has increased it's Sora road bike by $200. Huge increases across
> the board. New web site, and all of the Lance stuff is gone. They've
> obviously lost it, and that's sad, because I own two Trek Road bikes.
> Does money grow on trees, the Trek people believe it does. The only
> bike that's named the same is the 520. I think they know if they screw
> around with someone that would be interested in something like that,
> they would go somewhere else with the new marketing that they are doing.
Trek is becoming more of a lifestyle company like Sony and Apple.
They've been worsening their product line for years now. The place to go
for bicycles these days are to companies like Surly, Marin, Jamis, and
REI. I have one Trek bicycle, but it's unlikely if I, or any of the
relatives I do bike buying with, will ever get another Trek. There's
just no reason to pay a premium for the Trek name.
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Date: 30 Aug 2007 15:30:47
From: Michael Warner
Subject: Re: Trek out of control....
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On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:54:40 -0700, Crescentius Vespasianus wrote:
> Trek has increased it's Sora road bike
> by $200. Huge increases across the
> board. New web site, and all of the
> Lance stuff is gone.
Oh. IWHT that without the "Lance rides it" factor they'd
have to /cut/ their prices and become competitive in that
respect.
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Date: 30 Aug 2007 01:40:32
From: Bellsouth Ijit 2.0 - Global Warming Edition ®
Subject: Re: Trek out of control....
|
"Crescentius Vespasianus" <jazzyboss@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:13dcbvplbavnse5@corp.supernews.com...
> Trek has increased it's Sora road bike by $200. Huge increases across the
> board. New web site, and all of the Lance stuff is gone. They've
> obviously lost it, and that's sad, because I own two Trek Road bikes.
> Does money grow on trees, the Trek people believe it does. The only bike
> that's named the same is the 520. I think they know if they screw around
> with someone that would be interested in something like that, they would
> go somewhere else with the new marketing that they are doing.
They have gotten the concept of "pervasive lifestyle" marketing. Very slick
new website, and very interesting is the section devoted to women, with
"personal blogs" et al. Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful and intrigued that
a bicycle company is spending more R&R in bike products focused on women's
needs, but equally suspicious. You and I both know when the Microsoft of
bicycles start touting " Trek Women," it's pretty much Princeton graduates
working for Madison Ave ad firms pulling their hair out trying to come up
with schemes to vanquish what was perhaps once niche market pioneered by
Terry and others. Trek is a huge corporate entity now, and it's not
surprising they are acting like a juggernaut. As always, end users, or
customers, are the first to feel the squeeze.
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Date: 29 Aug 2007 22:03:06
From: Nate Knutson
Subject: Re: Trek out of control....
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On Aug 28, 8:54 pm, Crescentius Vespasianus <jazzyb...@hotmail.com >
wrote:
> Trek has increased it's Sora road bike
> by $200. Huge increases across the
> board. New web site, and all of the
> Lance stuff is gone. They've obviously
> lost it, and that's sad, because I own
> two Trek Road bikes. Does money grow on
> trees, the Trek people believe it does.
> The only bike that's named the same is
> the 520. I think they know if they
> screw around with someone that would be
> interested in something like that, they
> would go somewhere else with the new
> marketing that they are doing.
i hope you're right. maybe they'll collapse before new-madone-style
integrated bb shit becomes the standard.
but they won't. and it probably will. its like im already dead.
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Date: 29 Aug 2007 22:47:51
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Trek out of control....
|
Crescentius Vespasianus wrote:
> Trek has increased it's Sora road bike by $200. Huge increases across
> the board. New web site, and all of the Lance stuff is gone. They've
> obviously lost it, and that's sad, because I own two Trek Road bikes.
> Does money grow on trees, the Trek people believe it does. The only
> bike that's named the same is the 520. I think they know if they screw
> around with someone that would be interested in something like that,
> they would go somewhere else with the new marketing that they are doing.
I don't think you are wrong so far as price and quality. But I will bet,
publicly, $50 that says they'll successfully (same or higher unit volume
for a 12-month period) raise their price.
See you here next year to settle up if you'll take my bet!
If a rider will pay $N for a 2007 outsourced bike with Brand X decals,
won't that rider pay $N+$200 for the "new improved exciting" 2008
model? I think Trek can do this. It's what they do best! Unless it is
seriously downgraded from or much heavier than last year's bike I think
my bet's safe.
p.s. Why develop a marketing structure if you can't 'cash in' eventually?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 29 Aug 2007 05:06:49
From: Crescentius Vespasianus
Subject: Re: Trek out of control....
|
> I don't think you are wrong so far as price and quality. But I will bet,
> publicly, $50 that says they'll successfully (same or higher unit volume
> for a 12-month period) raise their price.
>
> See you here next year to settle up if you'll take my bet!
>
> If a rider will pay $N for a 2007 outsourced bike with Brand X decals,
> won't that rider pay $N+$200 for the "new improved exciting" 2008
> model? I think Trek can do this. It's what they do best! Unless it is
> seriously downgraded from or much heavier than last year's bike I think
> my bet's safe.
> p.s. Why develop a marketing structure if you can't 'cash in' eventually?
---------------------
Not being a tech guy, you may know what
Trek means by "hydroformed". Here is
how they say it:
Trek’s high-performance aluminum alloy,
Alpha Black is 6000-series aluminum that
has been hydroformed or mechanically
formed to optimize the tube shape and
butting profile. Alpha Black frames may
be smooth welded for aesthetics
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Date: 30 Aug 2007 22:54:44
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Trek out of control....
|
(am@yellowjersey.org) blathered:
>> I don't think you are wrong so far as price and quality. But I will
>> bet, publicly, $50 that says they'll successfully (same or higher unit
>> volume for a 12-month period) raise their price.
>> See you here next year to settle up if you'll take my bet!
>> If a rider will pay $N for a 2007 outsourced bike with Brand X decals,
>> won't that rider pay $N+$200 for the "new improved exciting" 2008
>> model? I think Trek can do this. It's what they do best! Unless it is
>> seriously downgraded from or much heavier than last year's bike I
>> think my bet's safe.
>> p.s. Why develop a marketing structure if you can't 'cash in' eventually?
Crescentius Vespasianus wrote:
> Not being a tech guy, you may know what Trek means by "hydroformed".
> Here is how they say it:
>
> Trek’s high-performance aluminum alloy, Alpha Black is 6000-series
> aluminum that has been hydroformed or mechanically formed to optimize
> the tube shape and butting profile. Alpha Black frames may be smooth
> welded for aesthetics
What? _Only_ $200 extra for all that?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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Date: 30 Aug 2007 16:59:08
From: John Dacey
Subject: Re: Trek out of control....
|
"Est in aqua dulci non invidiosa voluptas." - Ovid
On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 05:06:49 -0700, Crescentius Vespasianus
<jazzyboss@hotmail.com > wrote:
>Not being a tech guy, you may know what
>Trek means by "hydroformed". Here is
>how they say it:
>
>Trek’s high-performance aluminum alloy,
>Alpha Black is 6000-series aluminum that
>has been hydroformed or mechanically
>formed to optimize the tube shape and
>butting profile. Alpha Black frames may
>be smooth welded for aesthetics
Perhaps Trek does it differently, but here follows a description of
the process excerpted from tubing manufacturer Dedacciai. I couldn't
provide a direct link because the site uses 'Flash', so you'll have to
go to http://www.dedacciai.com/home_eng.html, then grope around for
the "Technology" link, then scroll down to the section on
hydroforming.
**********************************
HYDRO-FORMING
Hydro-forming is the plastic deformation of aluminium alloy.
This means that, by means of this press, we are able to achieve the
most varied of shapes on tubes and, above all, thanks to the
collaboration of our technical office, we can customise the tubes
according to the needs of each individual customer.
The tube, which was pre-formed before the work process, undergoes the
first treatment at the T0 state, i.e. when it is most ductile.
The tube is placed inside a steel mould which, at the end of the
process, will have shaped the metal segment as desired.
The press guarantees sealing under the high working pressure which
reaches 1000 bars, thanks to a containment force which can reach up to
400 tons.
Once the two half-shells which make up the mould are clenched against
each other, a liquid is injected into the tube at high pressure.
95% of this liquid consists of an aqueous solution, while the
remainder is an emulsifying liquid which allows the heat to be
dissipated and prevents the formation of gas bubbles.
After a few minutes, the hydro-forming operation is complete.
The tube is then cleaned and sent to the tempering process (heat
hardening process)
**********************************
-------------------------------
John Dacey
Business Cycles, Miami, Florida
Since 1983
Comprehensive catalogue of track equipment: online since 1996
http://www.businesscycles.com
-------------------------------
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